6
2011
Alderson Shopping Isringhausen and Byrdak, Surprised At Collins’ Use Of K-Rod
An article by 
Last night before the game, Sandy Alderson told Brian Costa of the Wall Street Journal that even he has been “a little surprised in some instances” at the way manager Terry Collins has used Francisco Rodriguez in non-save situations this season.
Referring to the fact that K-Rod now has 32 games finished and is on pace to finish 61 games - six more than 55, which is Rodriguez’s magic number, Alderson said:
“There’s a heightened sensitivity to it, obviously,” Alderson said. “It would be silly not to admit that. But at the same time, you have to use him consistent with good baseball practice. You’re trying to win games. There’s a certain inevitability about how he is used in the course of the season, which is turning out pretty well for us.”
As Costa points out, no one can blame Collins for the potential implications of how he is using Rodriguez. He didn’t sign K-Rod to the contract. His job is to get the Mets to win now. And he has used his closer accordingly.
Meanwhile, Andy Martino of the Daily News, cites two major league sources familiar with the Mets thinking who say the Mets are shopping relievers Francisco Rodriguez, Jason Isringhausen, and Tim Byrdak.
“They are really trying to move Isringhausen, and also Byrdak and K-Rod (before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline),” one of the sources said. “Those guys have pitched well, and they could help somebody.”
With many contending teams looking for bullpen help, the sources say, Alderson hopes he can parlay his veteran pitchers into decent minor leaguers or at least some salary relief.
Hmmm…
Isringhausen and Byrdak are having decent, but not great seasons and neither is under contract for 2012, so I don’t see any team being eager to give up much for either of these guys especially with so many younger and better relievers expected to be available before the trade deadline.
I’m also not really buying the salary dump argument either, as both Byrdak and Izzy are owed less than $400K each for the rest of the season.
If the Mets want salary relief, than it’s Chris Capuano and D.J. Carrasco who would get shopped, not two aging relievers running on fumes.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’m totally not buying this latest Andy Martino rumor.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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wow, this is just comical to me. so the mets ARE winning and in contention, yet they’ve been shopping their set up guy and worried about the closer’s game watch???
am i reading this correctly?? is OBVIOUS the mets front offie of saberheads and crooks don’t want THIS team to be any good, is a shame, izzy has solidified the 8th inning, which has been a problem for us since duaner sanchez cab acccident in 2006, and byrdak is the only lefty in our pen!!
this front office just blow smoke and we buy it, this is just embarrassment. is clear, they’re shopping aroung the good guys in the pen, not the garbage of course, we lose and blow games, then, we need to get rid of everyone as we fade out of contention.. and yet, some ppl LOVE this GM and his saberidiots in the front office.. wow..
You’re pretty comical yourself.
welll, well, well, if it ain’t xtree-micon.. i forgot you’re in love with saber sandy.. i am sorry if i hit a nerve, quite frankly i do not know the infatuasion with a guy who hasn’t done nothing for this org, and only won due to his steroid smashers in oakland..
The infatuation is very simple.
1) He goes about his business exactly the opposite way Omar went about his.
2) He won a World Series with a team centered on pitching.
3) He preaches accountability, even his own (Hu and Emaus)
4) He goes about his business exactly the opposite way Omar went about his.
Despite your best attempts to label it as idiocy, it’s very wise and always a good idea to field offers for every player you have. Yes, even Reyes. You’ll have a good idea who’s interested in him, what he’s worth, and you never know who’ll overpay for a fringe guy. Some team wants to offer a legit prospect for Izzy because they’re contending, but have a young bullpen with no veteran leadership? IMPOSSIBLE!
Last, but not least, it was Andy Martino who reported this rumor. So……..
thanks for reminding me it was martino. but is not only him reporting it. trust me, sources have said so. again, you wanna get rid of whatever good we got WHILE in contentiong? go ahead, let’s see this ghost town come august
Who said I wanted to get rid of anybody? And why in the world would I “trust you” after reading some of the absurdity you post here.
1989 World Series Champion: Carney Lansford, Rickey Henderson, Dave Henderson, Dave Parker, Dave Stewart, Mike Moore, Bob Welch, Storm Davis, Dennis Eckersley, Todd Burns, Rick Honeycutt
So you’re saying the only reason the 1989 A’s won the World Series were because of Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco?
Why do you even say that? Because it’s easy and you think it makes you look smart?
McGwire: 143 Games, 33 HR, 95 RBI, .231 average?
Canseco: 65 Games, 17 HR, 57 RBI .269 average?
McGwire 1989 ALCS: 5 Game, 1 HR, 3 RBI .389 average
1989 WS: 4 Game, 0 HR, 1 RBI .294 average
Canseco: 1989 ALCS: 5 Game, 1 HR, 3 RBI .294 avg
1989 WS: 4 Game, 1 HR, 3 RBI .357 avg
So Alderson’s As “only won due to his steroid smashers in oakland..” Really?
Did you even watch baseball in 1989? The A’s won because of their pitching staff
again, HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW that everyone else wasnt on steroids? i completely forget hoe much you love alderson and his sabermetrics.. keep drinking the kool aid of this man, he’s done nothing for us,i repeat, NOTHING and ppl wanna praise him (like you) like he’s another godsend for us, you posted that crappy article about how HE is doing everything right, yet i haven’t found 1 reason to support that statement, you kill minaya for not coming up with turner in sept of last year, yet don’t kill alderson for leaving him behind for BRAD F****** EAMUS AND THAT OTHE LITTLE POS HU!!!!!!!
you’re nothing but a prejudice who loves this guy becaus he’s a sabergeek like you and others.. you are the only met fan i know who’s a poser and a loser at the same time, my god who actually roots for the A’s just because of MONEYBALL!!!!!
alex: how do you know not everybody on the 86 Mets took steroids? how do you know not everybody on the 2000 mets took steroids?
Kirk Radomski plays as big a role in the steroid saga as Canseco does, and Radomski WORKED for the Mets in 1985 through 1995!
You have no evidence any of those players took them, nor do you have any evidence their opponents weren’t as well so I’m not sure why focusing on them is legitimate?
Do you think Derek Jeter took steroids? If not, then why do you think the A’s pitchers did? Jeter had roids in his locker room…heck so did the Mets.
And again, until you can show me how Alderson is using sabermetrics to make his baseball decisions for the NY Mets your rambling and incoherent statements do not phase me. You don’t even know what sabermetrics are but you know Alderson runs the Mets by using them?
again, are you an A’s fans? everyone here see you defending them and praising them when you’re rooting against your own team!!!
another team, i don’t care if the mets took steroids on 1986, if they did, well, they paid off, we WON! quite frankly no fan of the 2000 yankees cares how many players were on steroids (like 12 allegedly), they won the championship, would you not counted if we were to win a champ and wright and Co were juiced up? the thing is, alderson knew about this situation, stayed back, won a champ, and know ppl like you and other praise him to be this great GM, well, show me what has HE done for OUR team to help us win?? when he does, i’d be the first one to change my screen name from Alex68 to Alex<3alderson 68
Alderson’s contributions are listed in this thought-provoking, well written piece….. http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/07/i-want-omar-minaya-back-redux.html
stop praising yourself for writing an article, secondly, stop praising a man that’s done nothing for this franchiZe yet.. we all read your article, trust me, not impressed. it reminded me of some article about urinal from some idiot
i rather not jesseP, one thing i won’t do is root for another team that’s facing my team, praise another team, or love a gm because he won with some other team
alex: If you write an article, I’ll spell check it for you. Go ahead, give it a try.
I’m not praising them. I’m merely defending them against an absolute lie of a statement than the 1989 World Series champs won because of steroids. Your only piece of evidence is that Canseco and McGwire took them. Nothing else.
So because they took them, now every pitcher did also?
The 1986 NY Mets CLUBHOUSE MANAGER plead GUILTY to distribution of anabolic steroids, hgh and amphetamines.
So why don’t you come here and say the 1986 Mets only won because of steroids? You going to try to tell me it was EASIER for Canseco to get enough steroids for 25 guys than it was for Radomski to distribute to his own players?
When you start attacking specific teams for their steroid use, you look petty and uneducated. The steroid scandal in regards to the Mitchell Report centers around New York City. Brian McNamee and Kirk Radomski were not Sandy Alderson’s team trainers.
All you’re doing is looking for more ways to hate Sandy Alderson, no matter how uneducated it makes you look.
To be fair I’m not REALLY saying the 86 Mets were on roids. I think Radomski was what 16 or so when he first started working for the Mets as a bat boy? But he became the clubhouse manager later on and there was a clear direct line of steroid use coming from his distribution.
Pin pointing 1 team and not others is simply dishonest
pin pointing?? didn’t we ALL love the coked up mets of 1986? davey johnson and co were as guilty for the fallout of what could’ve been a dinasty for letting the players to do whatever the f*** they wanted. but i won’t praise a guy who’s been here for 6 months and hasn’t done nothing, other than promote the players the PREVIOUS GM had picked out and promote the manager THE PREVIOUS GM hired to be within the org
“At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
????
Gotta love the classics
donalickety himself grace us with his present..
Donal: You brought us a present?
Oh wait you mean he graced us with his presence? I got it now.
jajaja, i forgot how superior you feel when spell check others.. is a shame ppl don’t see how much of an As-sh-o** you are.. typical loser, a man behind a desk.
wELL, aLEX WHAT’S YOUR SOLUTION TO THE DISMAL DEPTH ISSUE DUE TO LACK OF FARM IMPLEMENTS? EFFECTIVE RELIEF POITCHING IS TYPICALLY A HIOGH DEMAND, LOW SUPPLY COMMODITY AT THE DEADLINE. THE MERE FACT SANDY IS RECEIVING CALLS, NOT MAKING THEM, IS A HUGE NEGOTIATION + IZZY’S BEEN A NEAT STORY; BUT A DIFFICULT CONSIDERATRION AS TOO FREQUENT USAGE DESTROYS HIS MOVEMENT AND TOO LITTLE DESTROYS HIS CONTROL.
BYRDAK HAS BEEN ‘NICE’; BUT NO FELICIANO; I BELIEVE WE MAY HAVE ‘NICE’ AVAILABLE IN BUFFALO AS A LOOGEY REPLAcement, HAMPSON?http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=430618
I’D ALSO LIKE IGGY TO GET A CHANCE @ CLOSER IN FLUSHING INSTEAD OF SETUP, MOPPER-UPPER THAT TYPICALLY DERAILS MOST CLOSER TYPES AS ADRENALINLESS SITUATIONS ROB THEM OF THEIR LETHALITY. AS ‘HERD’ CLOSER HIS WHIP(0.077) & ERA(0.087) ARE BOTH SUB ONE. DURING “THE PUSH” HAVING CAPABLE OPTIONS WITH LITTLE TAPE MAY BE AN ADDITIONAL EDGE WORTH TESTING IF DECENT FARM TOOLS CAN BE HAD IN THE EXCHANGE.
metsfan62:
we are in contention and shouldn’t get rid of what may be our most consistent bullpen since 2006, we have a set up guy, a good closer and beato/byrdak in 7th, that allow the manager to go 6th or 7th inning with the starters more frequent, knowing the bullpen is steady
aLEX, ARE U SO CERTAIN WE’LL CATCH & PASS ATL; BECAUSE IF WE DON’T THERE’S NO POSTSEASON BERTH TO BE HAD WHILE KILLER PENS ARE TYPICAL ON FIRST PLACE TEAMS, NOT SO MUCH ON W/C ONES IT ISN’T AS IF BIRDY,IZZY & FRANKIE ARE HAVING CAREER STATS; BUT IF THEY’RE OUR MOST VALUABLE POTENTIAL ‘BAIT’ FOR BETTER THAN AVG MilB OPTIONS, THEN WE BETTER BE CONSIDERING 2011+ AS WEL;L AS 2011, ESP IF WE’RE TO INVEST HEAVILY IN SS. CONSIDER THIS:
I THINK THE BACKFILL MOST LIKELY BECOMES IGGY TO CLOSER, LUJAN AS PART OF A SETUP TRIUMVIRATE ALONGSIDE BEATO & PARNELL ALONG WITH HAMPSON AS LOOGEY REPLACING BYRDAK. OF COURSE MOST OF THESE NAMES ARE UNFAMILIAR; BUT ALL 3 ARE HAVING RESPECTABLE SEASONS IN THOSE ROLES FOR BUFFALO’S BISON HERD:
LUJAN:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455114
HAMPSON:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=430618
IGARASHI:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=579799
I KNOW AT LEAST ONE OF U IS MOST QUIZICAL RE. MY SANITY WITH THE IGGY SUGGESTION CONSIDERING HOW OFTEN HE’S BEEN TRIED & CONVICTED OF MEDIOCRITY @ MLB LEVEL; HOWEVER, HERE’S MY THINKING, IGGY WAS A SUPERIOR CLOSER IN JAPANESE LEAGUE; BUT NEVER GOT SUCH AN OPORTUNITY DUE TO FRANKIE’S PRESENCE ON THE METS. SINCE HIS LAST FAILED AUDITION IN QUEENS HE’S BEEN THE BISON CLOSER TO GREAT EFFECT. IT ISN’T THE FIRST INSTANCE WHEREBY TOPFLIGHT CLOSERS HAVE FAILED IN NON-CLOSER APPEARANCES, just because his closer rep was earned in Japan, it’s no less a valid conclusion that we’ve not experienced his best adrenalin powered efforts. Those closer role numbers in Buffalo are excellent & would be envied by many current MLB closers.(21G 0-1 31IP 5 SVS 2 HLDS 34K,9BB 0.77WHIP,0.87ERA COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING K-ROD’S ARE:
40G 2-2 41IP 21SVS ?HLDS 44K,16BB 1.46WHIP,3.32ERA GET MY IDEA?
PITCHING IS ALWAYS ONE OF THE HOTTEST DEADLINE COMMODITIES & WHILE THESE MOVES ARE NOT THE MOVES OF A CONTENDER, WE AREN’T ONE & SHOULDN’T BE MISTAKEN FOR ONE AS, AT BAST, WE’RE IN THE W/C HUNT BY THE GRACE OF A CHARITABLE ‘FRINGE ’6.5GB & STEADY DUE TO ATL’S REMARKABLE STRETCH OF WINNING WITH MODEST OFFENSE & HOLDING STRONG PITCHING. TYPICALLY THE ARGUEMENT Re A W/C CHASE CENTERS AROUND THE DUALITY OF CHASING THE LEADER(ATLANTA) WHILE NEEDING TO BYPASS TOO MANY TEAMS FROM VARIOUS DIVISIONS(SINCE SUNDAY AT LEAST 2 OF THOSE HAVE DROPPED BEHIND US (REDS & GNATS). IT’A A DaAUNTING TASK, ONLY AN ILLOGICAL, EMPOTIONAL BOOST CAN POSSIBLY SUSTAIN US THROUGH AS IN ’73′s SIMILAR ILLOGICAL STRETCH WAS RELIANT UPON THE EMPOTIONAL CRY, “YOU GOTTA BELIEVE!” SO TOO WILL THIS SEASON BE RELIANT UPON THE EMPTIONAL RAISING OF “THE CLAW”
ALEX, WHI;LE MY OPTIMISM, LIKE YOURS, WANTS TO HOLD EVERTYONE AS TO NOT MESS WITH CHEMISTRY; MY REALITY CHECK UNDERSTANDS HOW LONG A SHOT THIS IS AS WELL AS THE REQUIREMENT TO BLUDGEON THROUGH 5 PHL CYs TO MAKE IT TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL. A CHALLENGE AKIN TO PLACING THAT HEROIC LIL’ ENGINE IN THE HIMALAYAS EN ROUTE UP EVEREST’S CREST.
SORRY. TO DARKEN YOUR BRIGHT THOUGHTS WITH REALITY; BUT SOMEONE HAS TO DO IT.
metsfan62
the mets can and will pass the braves, the tougher part on their schedule is coming up, while ours gets easier, we can play on the road, if we can just translate that at home we’ll be fine
alex: as in for 1 day or are you saying the mets will finish better than the braves in 2011?
shopping is not getting rid.
It’s called doing your due diligence
to the beloved A’s fan, jesseP, here’s something to shut you up for a bit:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1103920/2/index.htm
Collins is an idiot if he lets Krod’s option vest.
Conventional wisdom sides with Collins on this one.
I’m not siding with Collins on this one at all. That contract must not vest, period.
17 M is way too high a percentage of what our total payroll is going to be in 2012 to spend it all on a guy who gets you 180 outs over an entire season.
Santana 25 M, Bay 18 M, K-Rod 17 M. All of them performance or injury question marks heading into 2012. That’s 60 M dollars right there tied up in just 3 players. Add in Dickey at 4.5 M and we’re practically halfway to the top end of the payroll. Wright at 15M, Pelfrey and Pagan at 5M a piece, 10 guys at half a million and with any luck Jose at 20 M. That’s 115 M leaving about another 10 M for 2 starting pitchers, 7-8 spots in the bullpen, (which everyone will be screaming about because cost and injury history will be HUGE considerations) and at the very least 2 capable bench players.
Now how exactly are you going to fill 11 different spots with 10M dollars?
If that contract vests then we lose him after 2012 for nothing anyway due to the fact that no one could take a chance on offering him arb on top of his 17 M salary unless he was a plan B and we came to an agreement that he would decline but even at that it would indicate he had a poor or injury plagued 2012 so that scenario doesn’t play out well for us either.
The only possible solution is to trade K-Rod, get something hopefully useful going forward and add that 17M to the 10 M left over and we can get better all around play to make up for the 5 extra blown saves a Parnell or a combo of closers will have.
K-Rod has been one FA who has really done his job and I’m not knocking him in the least but he does have a lot of wear and tear on his arm and is no sure thing to make it through the next year and a half without major arm trouble and the worst possible scenario would be for that contract to vest and he gets hurt and his salary prevents us from resigning Reyes as well.
Wouldn’t that just be typical of our luck?
I don’t know if anyone realizes this but K-Rod has not been the same pitcher with us as he was with the LAA. He has been successful, no question. Very few blown saves, but he is getting by with a high wire act and that wire is getting stretched thinner and thinner. His velocity is down, walks and hits up, ERA up a full run over last year. His WHIP is almost 1.5 runners per inning right now. He’s really only another MPH, a foul tip, a bad call, an error, away from blowing numerous games. Once that happens he’ll have no trade market and he’ll have none at all next year unless we’re paying most of his salary which means about 10M spread around between 11 guys.
The same situation everyone was complaining about this off season. The same reason we couldn’t pay an Aaron Harang double to come here. The same reason we couldn’t lock down a second LOOGY. The same reason we went with Harris, Hu and Hairston. The same reason we took a gamble on Young and Capuano and we’re losing a tremendous hitter in our lineup for sure next year as well in RF.
Trading a guy a year too early is a hell of a lot better than trying to trade him a year too late.
I’m just saying conventional wisdom sides with Collins. Actual wisdom dismisses the idea of a 9th inning closer all together.
It’s not Collins job to “save money”, and get to “value”. His job is to win baseball games, and he’s going to do whatever it takes to do that. If that means using K-rod to close out games, then that’s what he’ll do.
And money had nothing to do with not getting another lefty in the bullpen. We had the money, but we CHOSE not to spend it on another one. D.J Carrasco signed for the same EXACT contract as Randy Choate. So, if they REALLY wanted another lefty, they could have signed Choate instead of Carrasco.
C’mon. With so many spots needing to be filled and such a limited amount of money to work with you aren’t always going to be able to fill every spot with the perfect guy. How many teams have to re work their entire pen every year?
Like it or not when you have to rely on free agents who have 29 other options you may not always be able to get every player you want. Every wonder why the NYY players who become FA’s all want to resign there? Ever wonder why FA’s in general want to sign with the NYY? Credibility and the chance to win a World Championship. Those aren’t things we could offer this off season. The whole team was in transition. Ownership was/is thought to be unstable. Our best starting pitcher out for most or all of the year. Our two best players in their walk year. Another one that hopefully is, The roster burdened with three expensive and under performing free agents, no frontline ace, no second basemen and constant negativity and controversy.
I’d lay 100-1 odds that it wasn’t us that chose Carrasco over Choate, I would bet anything that Choate chose the Marlins over the Mets because sad to say but in the off season they presented a better chance of being in a pennant race than we did with a rotation that went 5 deep with an ace, two relievers obtained from SD, Hansley, Morrison, Stanton, Sanchez, Dominguez, Coughlan. Things obviously haven’t gone well for the Marlins this year and their going to face a credibility crises next off season but the mere fact that they probably represented a better chance to win then we did speaks volumns about the way we are viewed around the league, not to say anything about the dysfunctional ownership, constant swirl of negativity and the fact that many players would probably just as soon avoid NYC unless their getting paid double or have a good chance to play in the World Series.
The simple fact is that when you have ten needs every year on a 25 man roster your not always going to be able to solve everyone of them with whoever happens to be a free agent every off season.
It’s not like fantasy baseball where players have no say in where they go. They do have a say and many have spoken with the choices they’ve made. Other parts of the Country are very nice to live in, players can live in or play near the City they grew up in, less media, less hassle, less morons booing one of the greatest CFers of all time because of one AB.
No one knows what offers were extended or rejected anyway.
Take your chances every off season that not only will the perfect fits for every one of your needs all be available and each and everyone of them is just dying to come here and your going to be severely disapointed.
I remember the Mets offering him 1 year 4 million. He signed with the Marlins because they offered him another year.
That’s the only reason why he chose the Marlins.
Vinny: I believe you have that a little wrong
http://www.metsblog.com/2011/01/09/mets-made-offer-to-randy-choate/
They offered him 1 year 1.4m
right, it was 1.4 million……
It’s obvious that he didn’t sign with the Mets because they didn’t offer another year.
Could it be and I really don’t know the answer to this… but could it be that Alderson doesn’t value the idea of devoting more $ and years to a guy who’s job it is sometimes to just get 1 out a game?
That can’t be because he signed Carrasco for the same amount, and he gets zero outs a game. lol.
He should have signed Choate because the Mets right now only have one lefty in the bullpen – That’s not a good idea espcially in this division, with Howard, Utley, Ibanez, Mccan, and Heyward.
“If the Mets want salary relief, than it’s Chris Capuano and D.J. Carrasco who would get shopped, not two aging relievers running on fumes.”
Am I reading this correctly? The Mets should *not* shop aging relievers running on fumes? If the Mets can get anything at all in a trade for Izzy that would be terrific. Who thought six months ago that Izzy would still be on the team at this point? And you’re saying you’re *against* trading him for a player/asset that might have value past this season? I disagree, is all.
I’m not saying I’m against trading them, read it again. I’m saying that I’m not buying Martino’s argument of salary relief. The two of them have $700k combined left in salary owed. Moving them is hardly salary relief with a $145 million payroll. Cappy and DJ still have millions owed to them and to me would be a better example of salary relief.
As to what we get in return, what would you give up if you were te Mets and wanted either of these two relievers as is? Put the shoe on the other foot and tell me what you would give up for one or both if you needed relief. My guess is not much if anything. So keep them and dont blow up a bullpen while your team is still battling for a wild card spot.
Meaningful games in August and September is far better than anything you will get for Byrdak and Izzy, and it’s hardly salary relief.
This is about being realistic — I’m largely ignoring the salary relief part. It seems you are against trading two aging, unremarkable relievers and that is baffling to me. Izzy and Byrdak aren’t dominating. And neither is under contract next year. They are not the difference makers in a pipe dream Wild Card run. If you can get any prospect in return for them (including Capuano — no one is taking Carrasco right now), even a low level one, you do it!
Why is the Wild Card run a “pipe dream”
You want to blow things up now? Sure if you can ABSOLUTELY guarantee that the Mets WILL be among the elite teams 3 or 4 years from now and contending. Can you guarantee that? Can you guarantee prospects or signed draft picks won’t get hurt in the next 3 or 4 years?
If you can guarantee ALL of the above will fall in the Mets favor than okay.
The baseball season about winning with what you have and i feel sorry for you if think this is a pipe dream. I guess that’s okay since 3 or 4 years from now the Mets WILL absolutely be contenders and winning.
It’s about winning and you can work on your farm and contend at the same time. The Mets are 2 1/2 games behind AZ for 2nd in WC right now and I’m not exactly afraid that the Braves will be DOMINATING the rest of the year while the Mets are playing 10 games over .500 since their 5-13 start. That’s a pretty long time
When you’re in a position to win you GO for it.
yeah..a pipe dream
Bayonne: I don’t mind your ethusiasm… in fact I don’t think Beltran or KRod will be dealt until its done through waivers.
But.
The Mets are 6.5 games out of the wildcard. Being 2 back of Arizona for 2nd place in the WC race means you’re still out 4 games.
The bottom line is: Atlanta, Milwaukee, Arizona and likely Cincy or St. Louis are the Mets “real” wildcard competition right now and it’s always tough to count out Colorado.
That is a lot to overcome for a team that gets 2 games over .500 and we act like a parade should be thrown.
The Braves are a 94 win team right now. A team like the Mets will need to do a lot better than they are now to even hope to catch them. Right now the Mets are an 81-84 win team.
Nothing wrong with that considering expectations but you can’t forget about 2012, 2013 etc just because you think you’re better than 4 or 5 other teams when you’re not.
alex:
“but i won’t praise a guy who’s been here for 6 months and hasn’t done nothing” — then what are we talking about? If Alderson hasn’t done nothing then hasn’t he done something?
he certainly did not sign colon or garcia who made the mets look stupid this past weekend.
Right because if Alderson signed Colon or Freddy Garcia who got run out of town you would have stood and applauded right?
Are you kidding with that?
Don’t you just love second-guessing bullshitters?
You guys are way too obsessed with Wilpon’s Money! And how much of it we spend!
First off trading Byrdak and Izzy is not about cutting payroll it is about getting something for them while they might still have some value to someone in a playoff run.
Izzy has been great (despite recent probs) and is way more valuable now than he was in ST when he was going to retire due to lack of interest.
None of those players is going to be part of our future and we are still not sure there is a real competition for us this season. We have won a lot lately but so have the Phillies and Braves who are 6.5 games ahead of us in the Wildcard!
There are only a few players you do NOT trade in our situation and those are the guys who project as our starters next year.
And even some of them will go if the Price is right and we are still 6.5 games away from the Wildcard at the deadline.
All of us (and the media) who are complaining about how too little or too much money we spend had better start realizing that you don’t get anything for MONEY EFFICIENCY in this league.
Spending 100M to get to the playoffs does not make it easier than spending 160M. You still have to win more games than everyone else to get to the playoffs no matter what you spend.
As for clearing Payroll now it would only be worth doing if Sandy intends to re-spend that money (or some portion of it) on rebuilding this team.
Izzy Byrdak and K-Rod are not a part of this team’s future. Beltran prob wasn’t either but he sure has made a good case for potentially keeping him and his bat if the right deal can be struck.
As for the untouchables they are few but significant.
Reyes has proved he can be the best SS in the league.
Davis has proved he can be a top 1B and significant Power bat that we are currently lacking.
Wright is not at the place where you consider trading him both with the injury and the fact that he has one more year left to trade him if we see he is not going to be our 3B of the future.
Niese has been one of our best Pitchers.
Beato can’t be traded this year and is likely being groomed to be our closer after K-Rod is sorted out.
Pagan is not having his Career year but he is playing well enough to say last year was not a complete fluke of statistical anomoly.
Even Paulino has made some strides in taking the starting C from Thole and has just been named Pelfrey’s personal Catcher!
Tejada, Murphy and Turner will either fight it out or platoon as our 2B with one being traded as surplus for something else we need.
Bay has started to show some of why we gave him that contract. Will it last? Who Knows I certainly hope so because it means he will get back the value he lost while being out and ineffective after his long summer vacation last year. If he stays hot even he could be traded while the getting is good.
This Martino Article is an aside to what we all talked about yesterday.
Sandy is trying to figure out what his guys are worth in a trade and the fact that he asked has little bearing on if he is actually prepared to trade them or merely judging the worth of his players going forward.
And the first guys you ask about in that situation are the guys you don’t expect to keep past this year. That means the Byrdaks, K-Rods, Capuanos, Carrascos, and Isringhausens.
They won’t save you money by trading them but you will get something before their health gives out.
So this has little to do with money I don’t know why it is an issue for some of you (just a requirement for the I hate Wilpon Agenda so you can blame him for not spending money). It is about having players that are currently at the highest value they can be right now or ever and seeing if it makes sense to trade them for something we CAN use in a future run for the playoffs when all our guys are not hurt and healing.
As I have said on numerous occassions if the money they have to spend concerns you then fix it. Go buy tickets to 5 games and show them that you are willing to pay to see winning baseball.
Then the Money is moot!
In fairness, I don’t think Ike has proved anything like that yet. That is the met fan in you shining through. He started the year fast, and it looks like he has made some necessary adjustments with his swing. But the true test is the challenge of the long season. This injury is serious, as well. I like Ike, and I hope everything you say is true. But I would trade him for a proven guy if I was looking to win in a hurry. That probably will not be necessary though. We might be wishing and hoping for Ike to develop into a star, but we really do not know at this point.
You save money by trading Beltran and the Drama Queen, not Izzy and Byrdak.
good you save money, i’ll try to win with Beltran.
Priorities have sure changed. I remember when it was about WINNING.
Don’t worry, the Mets will still build a farm system..and even can’t guarantee successs in the future either.
But we’ll save a couple bucks for the future right? There will be no injuries and no doubt we will contend again again in the future right? But let’s give up this year. And who’s to say if you do it now you won’t give up on another future chase again, just because you THINK you can’t catch the team in front of you.
Nice cycle. Don’t we all wish winning took no risks? that would be nice, right? And convenient too
jdon: If you wanted to, couldn’t you argue that if you get a minor leaguer back that you can develop for byrdak or Izzy it saves $ because maybe thats $ you don’t have to spend on a free agent?
In terms of “now” money, I agree. But if the Mets were not in it, Izzy and Byrdak would be no brainers to try and get something/anything for
I agree with you. I just don’t buy the notion that trading them saves anything more than ho-hum money. Maybe a pittance. I love it when they talkk about trading a guy 2/3 of the way through a 1 mil contract because they want to save money. To a major league franchise, that is pin money. You want to lose some salary, you go for Beltran and KRod. As far as trading Izzy and Byrd? I am standing at the door waving bye bye.