Alderson Could Make Substantial Offer To Reyes

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• Metsie July 4, 2011 at 11:06 am

  I know there are many who are wary of signing Reyes because they believe his performance is all about his contract status.

  I personally don’t care WHY he is doing what he is doing, all I care about is the fact he CAN do this when properly motivated!

  Then it is just the matter of keeping him motivated!

  Reyes has always had to deal with doubts about him. Been that way since he came up!

  I am willing to bet that his performance was inspired as much by what Wilpon said about him as it is by his walk year!

  Sandy is a smart cookie and he knows you can’t just let the best SS in baseball to walk away without even trying to sign him. And this report doesn’t mean he WILL keep him just that he will try.

  If he succeeds in signing him Sandy takes the risk that the Hindsighters will point to the signing in 4 or 5 years as a mistake (much the same way they did with Beltran the last two years when he got hurt) but you know a smart man knows better to deal with an unfair bitching than it is to not retain Reyes and take the immediate heat.

  Wether you agree or not, Reyes has earned whatever he is going to get paid at the end of the year. Saving money on not signing him is not in itself going to make the team better but will make it worse!

  Bottomline is you can not make your team better if you let your best players go over money! Oakland proved that in spades!
  • Devin July 4, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Everything depends on how long the contract is. If the Mets offer more than 4 years, something I dont think they will do, it will be a franchise killing mistake. I think 4 years at $70-$80 million would be low risk and give the team flexibility to make other moves. Dont forget we have to re-sign David Wright too next season.
    • Metsie July 4, 2011 at 11:53 am

      Well Devin, I am not so sure we HAVE to sign Wright next season. Especially now that he has exhibited Back issues which are much more of a chance of being chronic than any Hamstring pull.

      Whice a stress fracture will heal it will also have the same issues with Arthritis and a good chance of re-injuring especially if David keeps trying to impersonate Prince Fielder!

      Is Wright the best 3B in baseball? Could be argued that he is not yet. He is a very good player but is certainly not going to command the money reyes is going to get unless he too starts playing for his contract next year and tears up the league.

      Signing Reyes to a contract that ends when he is 34 or 35 is not a big risk. And it is possible reyes would accept that with some sort of option for another year as he will still be young enough to get one more Payday out of his career!

      I personally don’t really think the length is the issue we should be focused on but instead try to stay away from a no trade clause so if we decide in 3 or 4 years that we need to trade him for kids we will have that option.

      And getting that would be harder than getting a shorter contract with an option.
      • Devin July 4, 2011 at 12:04 pm

        David Wright is definitely among the best 3B in the league. And while Reyes chose his walk year to have a career year, Wright has already several great seasons in 2006-2008 and after a down 2009 came back last season with all star numbers. Wright, back problem and all, is still the safer bet for a longterm deal not Reyes who depends on his legs which are frequesntly injured.
        • Metsie July 4, 2011 at 12:47 pm

          Big difference between AMONG the best and the actual hands down BEST…

          Yes David is an All Star. And a damn fine baseball player. But once a back starts having issues they never ever really go away!

          That makes him a much higher risk to being a High Money Contract that is a waste to injury even more than Reyes is yet your not getting the BEST 3B in the game just someone AMONG the best in the game.

          Now Wright could come back and show he is the best 3B in the league between now and the time we have to decide to resign him.

          But David has never had a season where he seperated himself from the other 3B’s in the league the way Reyes has.

          I am not saying we should NOT resign him when his conttract is up but it is not imperative to sign him based on what he has done so far.

          Especially considering that Murphy is there to take his place and will need a position to play once Ike gets back without platooning him with lets say Turner or Tejada (Neither of which is a good replacement for Reyes)

          We have options with David and he won’t get a contract that makes him the highest paid player in the game unless he actually gets his Prince Fielder impression down and starts hitting those HRs.

          But that said I personally think the right move is to keep both Wright and reyes to build around. Hope Niese and Gee are also proved to be CORE build around talents and with the emergence (we Hope) of Harvey Holt and Mejia, We take the path the Phillies have taken and start from here with what we have (as opposed to firesale)

          Phillies kept Rollins and Utley and then filled around them to complete their core before they bought pitching to seal the deal. Better than the Yanks plan who now have a core that is all getting old at the same time and as a result the new core is not quite as good anymore.

          If we resign Wright and Reyes, Keep Davis, Murphy, Pagan, and Niese,
          If thats not enough CORE to build around then what the hell is?
          • Bayonne Mets Fan July 4, 2011 at 12:57 pm

            i’m sorry but i’m still not sold on Murphy as an everyday player. I still think he’s more of the super sub variety in that he can pinch hit, fill in, and play enough on a team to get 300 ABs or so.

            There’s no denying he can hit in the clutch and I trust him in big spots and I definitely see him playing in a winning team I just don’t want to see him on the field. I don’t see his fielding changing that much and he always hurts us in important spots on the field. He fields just decent enough to be a utility guy.

            Super sub or trade bait is what I see Murphy as, not a starter.
            • russell Zanca July 4, 2011 at 1:10 pm

              I am still skeptical about Murph, too, but, Man, you should entertain the idea that he is a work in progress.

              Don’t you think he’s made some huge improvements as an infielder? I think he has made biggest improvements at first where he has turned in some real gems. Not suggesting he replace Davis, but if Wright and Reyes continue as Mets, we have a huge conundrum among Turner, Tejada, and Murph.
              • Bayonne Mets Fan July 4, 2011 at 1:26 pm

                ehh i don’t think he’s a work in progress like the other guys we talk about. It’s just my take on him but I don’t think his fielding will progress to much more than what it is and he’s also not the brightest bulb on the basepaths either.

                I think Murphy can have really good offensive seasons but more like an Oscar Gamble type part time player with less power of course, maybe hit .300 or so but as a 200-400 AB sub, fill in , role player.
• theonlymaskman July 4, 2011 at 11:24 am

  I’m glad to see that there are signs of active grey matter within this GM’s cranium. Do you mean to tell me that he’s giving some credence to the value of SB’s? Do you mean to tell me that the owners might find the where-with-all to sign a bonafide star to a meaningful contract? Hopefully the GM can stay on track and continue to see the value of keeping this home-grown star locked up with the Mets, both his performance and for his gate appeal. If not, I can assure you, it will be a cold day in Hell before I attend another Mets game. Hopefully, Jose’ is resigned with the Mets and I will be able to attend many future games at Citi.
  • Metsie July 4, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Well OnlyMM…

    It would appear that it is not just Sandy who has changed his mind about Reyes…
    About half of this site has also changed their minds about him!

    Go back 6 Months and read the posts!
    • theonlymaskman July 5, 2011 at 10:05 am

      I know, so what! I was personally never a proponent of trading Jose’ as many here were. The thing that stands out is that Mr Moneyball maty be changing his tune. Let’s see him deliver on that before buying into it.
      • Metsie July 5, 2011 at 11:02 am

        Well OMM, Too much ASSUMPTION going on here regarding Sandy and his Philosophy.

        Sandy may have invented moneyball but it wasn’t his choice to do it.
        Ownership kind of forced it on him.

        Before that he didn’t shy away from spending money.

        He didn’t use Moneyball in any of his other stops.

        Too much is made of Sandy’s Saber use and Moneyball involvement.

        He is a pragmatic manager not an ideologue as some here are!
        He manages to fit the situation.

        And you can’t really blame him for wanting to see what Reyes does himself before making a determination on making him the highest paid SS in baseball.

        You wouldn’t buy a multi millon dollar mansion based on a picture you saw in the catalog would you? You would go and see it first hand before you put down that kind of money.

        The ones around here who want us to use Moneyball are trying to use Sandy as justification of their concepts not his.

        He’s not a genius but he also is not a dolt.
        The only thing you can take from his involvement in the Moneyball principle is that when pressed really hard he can adapt to any situation put in front of him and find a way to deal with it.

        He has a tough nut to crack here but I do feel he is capable of handling that.

        He won’t use moneyball unless he has to.

        And even if he did, Moneyball with Jose Reyes, David Wright, Ike Davis, Daniel Murphy under contract would not kill our franchise!

        I am fine if he plays moneyball with the minor fill ins and signings provided he is still willing to pay for that Big Bat and Big SP Arm when it is needed.

        Too many extremists in this world right now…

        Moneyball, Buy Talent…

        What is needed is moderation right now.

        Not moneyball, Not wild Spending…

        Just good situational awareness and action.

        If everyone knew reyes was going to have the year he has then his trading would never have been discussed in the first place!
  • Donal July 4, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    “Do you mean to tell me that he’s giving some credence to the value of SB’s?”

    Or maybe it’s because Reyes leads the league in hits, batting average, triples and total bases and is in the top 10 in OBP, SLC, OPS, extra base hits, doubles, runs created, and OPS+.

    In short it is most likely because he is having an all around MVP season.
    • theonlymaskman July 5, 2011 at 9:58 am

      That’s rather obvious to even the causal observer. My point was that it was enlightening that Alderson was possibly seeing values that extend beyond his Moneyball parameters. Earlier this year he was full of criticism regarding the value of Jose’s talents. Now perhaps true value is creeping into his feeble mind.
      • Donal July 5, 2011 at 11:51 am

        He was full of criticism? Like when he said that Reyes was “a joy to watch”? Or when he said he hoped Reyes could be part of the Mets’ future for a long time?

        Oh, you are still stuck on “stolen bases are a footnote”. Guess what: they are. They bring minimal production boost even when you are highly successful at it. Since 2005, the Mets have been first in steals in the NL except for 2008, when they finished second. How many playoff runs did they get out of that? Stealing, when done at at least an 80% success rate, is a luxury at best.

        Reyes’ game is so much deeper than stolen bases and Alderson understands that. He’s maturing as a hitter (he’s working counts more than ever) and seems to have finally forsaken that uppercut swing and embraced what he is :a line drive gap hitter with super human speed.
        • theonlymaskman July 6, 2011 at 9:38 am

          I’m glad the GM is apparently starting to figure that out. Why wasn’t he on board from the start? He apparently came to the Mets with a knife sharpened for Reyes. Glad to see he is FINALLY recognizing talent once the fans were marching through Citi with signs to keep Reyes. He is responding to fan demands and nothing more.
  • MetsMan86 July 4, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    I’m sorry man, but I hate the ciritisim that Sandy hasn’t signed anybody to a big contract in his past, so that dictates that he probably won’t sign anybody here. His moves in OAK and SD were based on what the cheapskate ownership alloted him. And what was Alderson supposed to say before, that he would commit to re-signing a player before he got to see what he’s dealing with? Every GM if they had the chance would try and sign Reyes, seeing what he’s doing right now. Reyes has shown what he’s worth, and it’s on the Wilpons to fork over the money and Alderson to get the deal as possible for the franchise.
    • theonlymaskman July 5, 2011 at 10:02 am

      I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I’ll buy into it when he gets the new contract with Jose’ signed. Until that time, he’ll have to prove it to me. Realize this might all be a psycho game to get fans to cough up attendance dollars. Let’s see the Wilpons put their signature on the contract. That will change the nature of the game by sealing the deal. When that happens, i’ll give these people some credence. Talk is cheap, let’s see action.
• t agee July 4, 2011 at 11:28 am

  No can rightfully point to Carlos’s 7 year contract as a potential injury risk because as a consummate elite professional at the peak of his baseball playing prime there was no chance that he would present even an average health risk. The injury that he did sustain and the way his body failed to repair itself was in no way able to be foreseen ahead of time. For all anyone knows 2 weeks or a month out of the lineup (like Davis has had) might have been the difference between a 2010 MVP performance and an injury riddled one.

  Reyes does present more of an injury risk than Beltran because of the muscle pulls (which can be proactively lessened by giving him a day here and there, stretching and hydration) and because of how hard he plays on the basepaths but should in no way preclude us from offering him 5/100M.

  A 5/100M dollar deal gives Reyes one of the top salaries in the Majors, guarantees it for 5 years and allows him to go back to FA as a 33 year old at 2017 dollars which even though he maybe entering his decline phase could very well be worth 30M dollars a year in a new economy.

  Give him the no trade, promise not to offer arb if he’s a type A FA in 2017 and get him signed. With 100 M guaranteed and 20M or so already earned Reyes can afford to bet on himself and leave his contract year ending at 33 instead of 35 and see what that translates into in 2017 dollars. What’s the worst it could be? 20M? So where’s the risk? Alright it’s not GUARANTEED to him over years 6 and 7 but I would find it very hard to imagine that he wouldn’t still be in huge demand in 5 years and I’m quite sure he’ll still love playing and will be damn effective as well.

  Look at how many SS’s over the age of 33 are still starting for their teams today and none of them have the skills that Jose does.
  • Metsie July 4, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Tag, I will agree to a degree but you know full well that if Reyes is resigned and misses any significant portion of any season due to an injury…

    SOMEONE (not saying you) will complain that we should not have signed Reyes to such big money because we should have assumed he wouldn’t last with his injury history.

    They wouldn’t be correct but they would say it!
    Cause one doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the other around here! LOL

    IMO you build a champion by looking for and finding the bets players you can. KEEP the good replace the bad until the bad is gone and your WS bound.

    It is stupid to think that by llowing your best player to walk that your going to make the team better by spending that money of 4 or 5 different players or on some other guy you think is worth that money because all you are doing then in reality is trading WHERE the skill is. You are not adding by subtraction!
    • t agee July 5, 2011 at 8:45 am

      Metsie, just let them say it then. Who cares. You have to build your team with the correct thought process in mind, if your making decisions based on solid, rational reasons and something goes wrong, it goes wrong. Nothing you can do about it. Most decisions around here for the last decade or so have always been grounded in hope, not realism and when so many things are dependent on hope you have no chance of having them all go your way.

      You cannot control the way things eventually work out, all you can do is use the best most practical and logical judgement in all your decisions and if you do that most of them will work out the way you want. Clearly a 28 year old SS who has already played great in this lineup, park and City is WAY different than many of the signings we have made in our recent past.
• gary s. July 4, 2011 at 11:40 am

  I have been a reyes fan since he first showed up in a mlb uniform.How can you not root for a guy with his talent and style?Imho, you have to factor in his propensity to get hurt and the fact he is having a huge year in his walk year.If you look at his career, he is a very good player with some shortcomings besides injuries.This year he seems to have eliminated the strikeouts on bad pitches and the pop ups that used to drive met fans crazy.However, like the stock market, current performance does not equate to future performance.A long term deal is full of danger to whatever club signs him.In a normal climate, he is worth anywhere from 15-18 mill a year, which is what tulowitski got long term from the rockies.Tulo has good legs and is not a speed player though.I predict if the mets do sign him to a 6-7 year deal, everybody who blindly insists the mets should sign him to a carl crawford deal will be the first people to complain when he inevitably winds up on the DL for 2 months in year or 3 of his contract.
  • Metsie July 4, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Lets face it Gary, Reyes really hasn’t been all that hurt when you think about it.

    Sure he pulls a Hammy now and then all the guys who run a lot do! Even track stars who condition themselves for nothing BUT running!

    It is niot like reyes has chronic back and joint issues that make him a question mark for any game.

    He runs all out trying to get that extra base and as a result he sometimes pulls a muscle which as long as it is taken care of and he is not rushed back is not anywhere near what you would call a MAJOR injury!

    He hasn’t really missed a season so I don’t know why the injury thing is such a concern.
    • t agee July 5, 2011 at 8:54 am

      Reyes biggest injury (torn hamstring tendon) occurred while he was rehabbing a calf strain. I’m not saying it could have been prevented but I am wondering just like I wonder if Beltran’s knee would have gotten better if he was taken out of the lineup for a couple of weeks at the first sign of the injury.

      It really doesn’t seem like these athletes are receiving the best care possible.
• gary s. July 4, 2011 at 12:37 pm

  I agree with T. Agee.I would offer him 20 mill for 5 years plus incentives for making playoffs, gold glove, 200 hits. etc. which would make him the highest paid ss in mlb.If that’s not good enough, let him test the market and see who wants to give a speed player more than that kind of a package with bad wheels.
  • Bayonne Mets Fan July 4, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Bad wheels? Where did that come from?

    Put yourself in Jose’s shoes. You’re going to want to think of you and your family’s own future down the road too so you’re going to have to bend a lot more than that cuz 5 years at 20 is not going to cut it.

    And if you expect to get him with that deal that’s wishful thinking. Mets would be extremely lucky if Jose agreed to a deal like that. Would you if you were him? I know I wouldn’t.
• nathan July 4, 2011 at 12:56 pm

  I would hate to be Sandy. This is a tough deal. You can not replace Jose’s performance but if it takes a 7 year deal than you are stuck with a bad contract at the end. He could hold up but that is the exception rather than the rule. The comment that Wright will hold up better than Reyes is in my opinion hogwash. Wright is a good player and I like him being on the Mets but he has alot of hitches in his approach and they have gotten progressivly worst as the years have clicked by. Jose may be having a career year but I do not attribute this to nothing but health and timing. Jose will be a great player for at least the next 4 or 5 years because of that I say sign him but if he wants more than 7 140 then let him go. It will be hard to do but it’s what’s right.
• sarge July 4, 2011 at 12:59 pm

  Off topic a bit but David Wright is still among the best 3b, look at who is starting in AS game this year, Polanco, and tell me that he is better than David?
  I know the fact that Phillies fill their stadium adds to the votes he gets but wow, what a bad year for 3b when Polanco is the best at a power position?

  Jose’s future will be decided after season and if as he says he wants to be a Met for life then I hope the and his agent will look for top dollar while allowing Mets some versatility in dollars so team can be made better to compete in a tough division.

  We can speculate all we want but until the season is over, how Met’s finish will also have an impact on how much Jose gets.

  I for one want Mets to keep David and see him and Jose be the left side of infield for the next 5-6 years at least.
• gary s. July 4, 2011 at 1:27 pm

  My point was that 5 years for 100 mill plus incentives makes him the highest paid ss in mlb.How can u blame the mets g.m. for trying to make him the highest paid ss in mlb?Plus in the past the met front office has been more worried about making the fan base happy than building a winner with disastrous results (jason bay).When we signed Pedro Martinez, everyone knew he would break down in a couple of years.If we sign reyes to a 7 year deal, the same thing will happen.My bottom line remains the above 5 year deal plus incentives.If that is not enough, good luck to you, Jose.
• russell Zanca July 4, 2011 at 12:28 pm

  Hey, I’ll make a contribution from my salary to keep Reyes here. This way I’ll spend less on booze because we probably won’t lose so much. It’s a win-win.

  Shall we take up a collection?
• DaveUpstateNY July 5, 2011 at 12:09 am

  “one reader (Met Maniac) called Jose Reyes’ 2011 season as the offensive equivalent to Dwight Gooden’s 1985 season when he went 24-4 and won the Cy Young award. If he keeps it up, Reyes will certainly have himself the best offensive season in franchise history.”

  Let’s not compare half a season to the best season any Mets player ever had. It’s rare enough to see a pitcher these days have an ERA under 3.00; Gooden’s was a mere 1.53. Insane. If Reyes keeps up the numbers for the whole season, we’ll all be happy.
• Midwestern Met July 5, 2011 at 2:02 am

  This is good news; there aren’t too many players in this league as electrifying as Jose.

  http://midwesternmet.blogspot.com/2011/07/game-85-mets-5-dodgers-2.html