Mets Showing a Change in Philosphy for the Better

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• Mykey June 7, 2011 at 8:26 am

  Finally, a post worth reading. Dead on with the entire thing!
  • Dennis Ribant June 7, 2011 at 8:31 am

    what’s dead on. The guy feeds us the standard crock line that the guy has a high ceiling. Guess what mykey. Go to every team’s site today and guess what they all have picked guys with high ceilings. The guy blows off the fact that most services who are .neutral rank this guy way below 13 wiothout giving any substantive reason why. The guy givs us some bogus lines about northern players. The post is drivel coming straight from the met front office. There were scores of guys with high ceiling who were considered better prospects than this kid for a pick as high as the mets had All the mets did was steal the pirate playbook and lie to the fans hoping we are stupid as they think we are. Plus tell me really, tell me one first or second round pick by any team ever who was touted with all this garbage verbage. Can’t wait until you find one.
    • 86maets June 7, 2011 at 9:11 am

      Seriously? C’mon, are you a professional scout? The MLB draft is more art than science. Unlike the NBA or NFL, MLB scouts have to PROJECT what a high school or college player will produce in 2 or 3 years, or more. Could Nimmo be a bust? Absolutely. But so could Gerritt Cole or Danny Hultzen or Dylan Bundy. What if Bundy had fallen to 13 and the Mets took him instead of Nimmo with Nimmo going to the Brewers instead and in 4 years Bundy is a bust while Nimmo is an all star? My point is that nothing is guaranteed about the MLB draft. You just take the best player available on YOUR draft board and hope your scouts were right. In this case the Mets thought Nimmo was better for them than Jed Bradley would’ve been. Based on what’s been written about Nimmo that very well may be the case. At least the Mets did not go for a signable college player with a low ceiling or a local kid that no one has ever heard of (Steven Matz, who no one has seen pitch either since he got $895,000 in 2009). At least now they’re leaving finances out of it, at least early on, and trying to inject some impact talent into the system.

      As for that last sentence, do you recall Todd Van Poppel in the 1990 draft? He was the next Nolan Ryan, a real can’t miss prospect. Taken ahead of a young IF by the name of Larry Wayne Jones (otherwise known as every Mets fans favorite player to hate, Chipper). In conclusion, Brandon Nimmo may very well be a bust. But the same could be said for every other 1st round selection. But the talent is there and the Mets scouts think he can reach his potential and have the makeup to make it with the Mets. Shouldn’t he be given the benefit of the doubt?
      • t agee June 7, 2011 at 10:31 am

        I am glad we didn’t take the same old lesser talented 4th year college senior who had no choice but to sign with us but I am certainly shocked at taking a HS kid who’s played in so few games.

        I feel better hearing they had 8-10 sets of eyes on him so there must have been a consensus among a fair number of scouts.

        I don’t mind the riskier type pick in fact I prefer it. You may get a higher washout rate but those guys who do make it will make it a lot bigger than the average “safe” guy who makes it. This is two risks though. The risk of not having had all that much competition and the risk of not signing. For that it might have been worth taking a shot at Swihart.

        Both of our picks were slight reaches and had other guys at real positions of need available but I’ve read enough to have a sense that they both have a solid shot and if Nimmo makes it, he could make it big and do it in our uniform instead of someone else’s during his prime. At least it is a credible attempt to get the most talent, rather than an ASAP pick or the guy who’s ceiling is a “hold the fort” starter on a bad team only. That both of our picks are also Arkansas Razorback committs and the SEC is playing the best baseball of any conference right now so they have to have talent.

        Still and all I was shocked with the choice. Very well regarded pitching still on the board and the safer big balls move if you want to get daring and go over slot, Blake Swihart. He takes care of RF for you if he doesn’t take care of C, has a cannon and is a switch hitting power bat, something you can really build a lineup around.

        Overall I feel like just get ‘em signed, get ‘em going and I hope it works out for the best but I can’t help feeling that next month there will 50 guys like Nimmo with speed and power, but raw and untested by good competition, available as 16 year old international amateurs. With the bonus it will take we could sign 15 guys in South and Central America or the Caribbean. That would give us a better chance and we could have selected a Jed Bradley or a Blake Swihart as well.

        Like the idea that we went high school, top talent position player. Like it a lot, just hopeing we took the right guy.

        Time will tell.
• alex68 June 7, 2011 at 8:29 am

  This is not Omar Minaya and his scouting team anymore”

  you’re right, they are bob and the 3 stooges!!!

  i hated omar as ppl know here, but take a look at the roster and get back at me please.. omar was horrible at signing ppl and fell in love with has been or bench players, but the kids of the future are his, before we crown mr steroid gm as the next big thing, let’s wait and see, as of 2011 he hasn’t done sh** to earn my trust.. imo, if he was sooooo good as mets fans think, why he wasnt even offer a job as a gm before? and pls don’t gimme me that crap about working in DR, tp clean up the steroid problem when HE of all ppl knew what was going on in oakland and turn face.. he wasnt offer a job because he’s not as good as ppl think he is, but better than omar at talking to the media and making mets fans feel enamored with him, watch when he let reyes go after low ball him to a 5 year 65 million offer ala vladimir guerrero in 2003 due to his back back that the wilpons were concern.. how that worked out? all you sandy’s lovers are in for a real treat when we see a 65-97 mets team out there..
• 86maets June 7, 2011 at 8:41 am

  Finally! Someone writing something about the Mets’ pick that makes complete sense! Thank You Nicholas. There are those who complain that the Mets have drafted too safely in the past (myself included) with college players with good skills, but not great, but likely to make the Majors. There are those who felt like the “moneyball” issue would likely see the continuance of such drafting, only with more sophisticated statistical analysis applied (again, I was among those worrying about that). But now that Alderson, DePodesta and their new scouting department has shown that they’re willing to be aggressive and bold in selecting the BEST available talent that they think will help the Mets those worries have been put to rest for me.

  Yet, there seems to be another contingent of fans who aren’t happy with that either. Yes, they could’ve taken Jed Bradley. But Bradley had an off year and it’s possible that his ceiling as a pitcher doesn’t equal Nimmo’s as a position player. I say Bravo for such a bold pick. As you said Nicholas, the Mets obviously did their homework on him and are convinced he has the talent AND makeup to succeed in NYC.

  Also the new front office clearly isn’t overly concerned with signability in taking Nimmo and Fullmer with their 1st 2 picks. Both are committed to the University of Arkansas, therefore both have considerable leverage against the Mets in negotiations. Jed Bradley would’ve had less leverage since going back to college for his senior year might limit the money he’d get in the 2012 draft. Both Met’s picks could argue that going to college would only boost their draft stock for the 2014 draft. Look what saying no to the Yankees as the 28th overall pick 3 years ago did for Gerritt Cole. He’s now the #1 overall pick so going to college vs turning pro worked out well for him. Obviously this draft is far from complete so we’ll have to see how bold the Mets continue to be, but I fully expect the new front office to continue to select the best talent that they think will help the Mets in the long run and not be dictated by how cheaply a player can be signed.
• harry c June 7, 2011 at 8:46 am

  Nice alex. The godless one showed his ability to judge talent in these testing days in baseball. Big trade was for Hu. Big sign was dj carrasco, big player sign was the roidal cheating ronny paulino. He couldn’t find anyone better for the bench than hairston and harris and all these kool aide addicted folks raved about all these guys they already hate. But they blame the money for the lousy players now. Afterall its never Sandy’s fault. And to all thise hoping Reyes stays. The great(not) one showed the future is far away by picking these HS kids. Rebuiling for the mets will go on way past the time the great (not) one’s contract is expired. Jose is history as of last night. nothing like the gm spitting in the faces of the fans and some of them love it!!!!!
  • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 8:58 am

    harry,

    i really don’t get all the love for a man that hasn’t done squat for the mets organization!!!
    that’s why we set ourselves for failing, we praise a man who achive greatness (while turning the other cheek while the players were roiding it up) on other team because we think he’ll do the same for us while NOT looking at the big picture, he is NOT that great ppl, 1 year and he does nothing, while feeding us garbage about obp, evaluation.. what!!?? like evaluating a injury prone pitcher? willie harris?
    please, the mets have no money, took the easy way out and feed fans all that garbage and 90% of them eat it up, please, we’re suppose to give a free year to alderson and his disciples because why? they won us a championship?? gimme a break!!
    • Sloatsburg Met Fan June 7, 2011 at 9:44 am

      It’s a bit premature to say he hasn’t done anything for the Met’s organization, isn’t it? He’s been here months and we all know that it takes time to build/rebuild a team especially with serious salary constraints. The steriod thing is just silly to pin on him since SO MANY were doing them and EVERYONE knew about it. I’m not sure that Alderson and Co. are going to bring us a championship but at least they have a plan and a system in place. As a fan, I want them to succeed and I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Going by your logic (saying all the prospect ranking companies ranked Mets picks much lower than SA and Co did.) everyone in baseball has tremendous respect for Alderson and Co and his baseball exec abilities, so I will give him his chance. You’re begining to come off as someone who is not happy unless you’re not happy.
      • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 9:52 am

        i can understand giving him the benefit of the doubt, but many mets fans (including jesse P and Co) give this guy too much credit for what he did about 22 years ago!!!!!
        of course i want the mets to win and i will be celebrating like crazy, but let’s calm down on pinning this guy the next super gm, first let him win something before saying how great he is when he’s done NOTHING for us other than get eamus, the strikeouts H harris and hairston, and sign young to 1.5 million for 4 games while having the opp to sign francis for half a million more and help us better
        • t agee June 7, 2011 at 11:10 am

          Certain people will complain about every single thing that Alderson does when it is really going to take years before we start to get a picture on how he’s doing.

          The high school position player is the best choice for getting the most possible talent without a top 5 or top 10 pick. None of us are qualified to say how he’s going to turn out but at least money is being put into the future for a change instead of dead as*es on their last legs.

          This is something the Mets have needed to do for a long time. Milledge wasn’t going to college so he was no signability risk but for a number of reasons didn’t develop.

          For 20 years we’ve been drafting guys who can get up here as quickly as possible but when you look at the guys who have played the best out of all the guys we drafted they were HS kids. (Wright, Kazmir, Niese) or 16-17 year old international amateurs (Reyes, Alfonzo) Davis is the only college player we’ve had true success with. Pelfrey has been so so as a 1st round #9 and there were some risky HS athletes taken after him that in retrospect turned out to be better choices (McCutchen, Bruce, Rasmas perhaps Maybin) All these guys had better talent, more risk and more upside. Whether Nimmo was the best guy is another matter entirely and they better sign him so we can find out.

          What he does 22 years ago doesn’t matter to anyone. All that matters is what he does while he’s here. Ed Wade got run out of Philly but he’s the one who acquired Rollins, Utley, Howard and Hamels. Three of those four were HS kids. Where would the Phillies have been if they had taken someone else? No post season’s since 1993, that’s where.

          Having a young and talented everyday starting 8 that gets up here at 23 and stays until 30, comes up all together, through the same system, same developmental staff, same coaches, same towns is the best way to build a team that has balls and cohesiveness.

          That hasn’t exactly been a staple of Met teams the last twenty years but it was a staple of our only two World Series Championship Teams.
          • Original Met Fan June 7, 2011 at 11:15 am

            What he does 22 years ago doesn’t matter to anyone. All that matters is what he does while he’s here. Ed Wade got run out of Philly but he’s the one who acquired Rollins, Utley, Howard and Hamels. Three of those four were HS kids. Where would the Phillies have been if they had taken someone else? No post season’s since 1993, that’s where.

            Agee, we could always count on you for injecting logic into any debate.
            • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 11:26 am

              bow to you guys, i guess i should be more level headed..
          • Vinny B June 7, 2011 at 11:52 am

            “Certain people will complain about every single thing that Alderson does when it is really going to take years before we start to get a picture on how he’s doing.”

            And certain people will say that ever single thing that Alderson does is fantastic, when it is really going to take years before we start to get a picture on how he’s doing.

            Like with this post, how can you say the “change in philopshy is for the better” NOW???? Maybe it’s for the worse? How do you know becuase of this “philosphy” that we passed on a terrific pitcher and this guy never plays in the majors? I think it’s a little to early to say this “philopshy is for the better” when as of right now, we have no idea if it is or if it isn’t.

            Here’s another problem with this post:

            “It is a completely new scouting team that has shown from past draft experience they are first-rate.”

            Really? Paul depodesta, in his years in LA and SD, the best guy so far the he drafted was Blake Dewitt – so from past experience he’s shown that he’s REALLY bad – It’s funny how you can just SAY these guys do great in the drafts, without ever talking about WHO they drafted!!!!
            • t agee June 7, 2011 at 1:34 pm

              I get the backlash. I’m not really enamored with the over the top enthusiasm either but I am glad we’re going in a more pragmatic way about things. Not just throwing money at people to come here and “plug holes.”

              I was a huge Omar supporter at one time. I was positive he would get us up to speed all the while building a team with super prospects gleaned from every corner of the globe.

              I had a bad feeling about some of his moves when he started veering off course but I didn’t say a word. I took it on blind faith that he knew what he was doing and these were just temporary moves while the farm was being added to and properly developed. I supported him through numerous decisions that I flat out knew were much, much more likely to result in disaster than success but when he traded for an injured relief pitcher and then had to sell the two #1 picks that went along with Wagner to pay for it. That’s when I ****** had it.

              I was angry. Still am. A “talent evaluator” trading two #1 draft choices away for a DH after giving away numerous at least hold the fort type guys from a team and farm system with so many needs. Just defies any semblance of rational GMing.

              But I was just angry about it. Still am.

              I’m not gleeful about it like some who are actively campaigning for Alderson to fail. Who have already used words like revolt, mutiny, fire him to express their disatisfaction and why? Cause of a book? Who cares about a book written 10 years ago?

              You would think with as many poorly thought out and ruinous decisions made around here under Phillips, Duquette and Minaya people would embrace MORE thought, MORE information, MORE consideration for the future and MORE realistic expectations rather than only considering the best case one.

              The absolute glee that was on display with something to hammer Alderson over the head with last night showed those people for who they are.

              They would rather lose and blame Alderson and Lewis’ book than see the Mets succeed under him.

              Very sad to see a few Met fans actually happy when they think things are going wrong for us.

              No matter how they feel about what I say about the philosophy and thought process employed by all but one of the GM’s employed by the Wilpon over the last twenty years, one thing they cannot say is that I ever rooted against any of them.

              I rooted for them all to make great moves because all I care about is winning games, winning pennants and winning World Series.

              Shame they cannot say the same thing.
              • lindro June 7, 2011 at 3:23 pm

                well said. You hit the nail on the head. People are dying for a reason to get upset, and they cant really get mad at the manager, because they are only 3 games under 500 playing with a patchwork team, so why not bash the gm, for picking guys none of them have heard of until yesterday,when they did there version of cross checking. looking at who we picked at 13, seeing him in one magazine at 37 and saying, “here we go again” not knowing anything about the player, or the process. Unhappy people dying for a reason to complain. Why not just drop this team if you cant be content with a draft of players you never heard of or watched anyway. This isnt the nfl or nba draft, where the players are recognizeable. maybe 25 percent of fans have even heard of anyone drafted until the past week when they opened up a draft preview.
            • lindro June 7, 2011 at 3:17 pm

              When did anyone ever say Paul Depodesta was a great talent evaluator? The author i believe is saying Alderson has a history of building winning teams, and has done so with many of the same people he has with him now. The idea of the philosophy changing, is really just no more picking players solely based on slotting, as has been the past regimes way of doing things. We dont know if any of these kids are going to turn into anything, but at least when i hear that its going to be difficult to sign a kid and the mets took him anyway, i know that they didnt do things looking to save a buck.
              • Vinny B June 7, 2011 at 4:15 pm

                So if he isn’t a great talent evaluator, how are we changing for the better? He’s running the draft isn’t he? Or he atleast has a big part in it.
    • Metsie June 7, 2011 at 11:56 am

      I really don’t get all the hatred for a guy who hasn’t done squat in the Met organization because he’s only had 6 months and a half a draft to do something in….

      I defend Omar plenty but Carrasco is not quite as bad as signing Perez….

      You guys need to reduce your Caffeine intake or something.

      The guy has been here less than 6 Months.
      How could he do anything BUT squat with only 6 months and 7 million dollars?
      • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 12:10 pm

        then why take the job if he knew he had nothing to work with???? what is he going to accomplished? as a gm in a big market you’re known for the players you sign, draft and trade for.. but also for playoffs app and CHAMPIONSHIP without turning the other way when you’re players are juicing it up!!!
        carrasco IS A piece OF s***
        • Metsie June 7, 2011 at 1:10 pm

          Because if he gets rid of some of the payroll bloat in his first year he WILL have something to work with next year when he can hit the ground running and be familiar with exactly who he needs to replace on a sub .500 team?

          You just don’t get it and I don’t get why you would hate a guy who hasn’t done anything YET (trading reyes would be step one) to make the fanbase hate him.

          No he isn’t a genius but only the guys who hate him actually use that term.

          he’s been here 6 months and in that time you know what he does better than Omar?
          Gives up on mistakes better! Still has two or three to go…

          Got rid of Perez and castillo, He gets that windfall next season. He dumped the few he brought in who have not performed and it didn’t cost him much at all to do it. He has two or three to go and as soon as he finds the guys to replace them I am confident he will.

          So what in 6 Months he hasn’t put us a game behind the Phillies it’s going to take a bit longer than 6 months and 7 million dollars to do that.

          What is the sense in slamming Sandy and Wright and whoever is the flavor of the day based on 6 months when it isn’t going to change until the contract is almost up and by then could be verey different picture?

          Is it an honor to be the first one on the Hate Wagon? Why so you can get that one “I told you so!” post in that everyone forgets 10 minutes after you post it?

          Well sorry but saying a guy sucks and needs to go is not prophetic.
          It’s like a broken clock, It will always be right twice a day. Not because the clock works but because time changes. At some point your argument against Sandy and Wright will be popular and everyone will agree. Because EVERYONE at some point wears out their welcome in NY. Even Steinbenner had his Get Out of Here moment!

          And the truth is our situation mirrors that Yankee situation very well.
          Get the Owner out of the baseball discussion (We Hope) so that some competent if not spectacular business types can get our house back in order.

          Give them a chance to prove themselves just as we give Davis and Reyes and Murphy a chance to prove themselves.

          It’s a spectator sport the point is to watch what happenes not lament on what you think is going to happen.
          • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 1:15 pm

            he’s been here 6 months and in that time you know what he does better than Omar?
            Gives up on mistakes better!
            wow!!!!!!! are you serious????? what mistakes has he made?? ohhh, wait a minute, pretty much everything he ACQUIRE this winter!!!
            other than izzy what else is alderson creation??
            please stop sucking this man’s cohoon-es!!!!!!
            • Metsie June 7, 2011 at 1:21 pm

              Uh Capuano?
              How about Paulino?

              You could even cite Bucholz too…

              When are you going to stop sucking lemons and give them time to do something?
              • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 1:36 pm

                ok, i will give them time when sucker in mets fans like yourself stop appointing these 3 stooges as the 3 next great gm’s or saviors of the mets franchize.. all they’ve done is help wilpons saved money while WE fans who actually go to the games spent our money to watch crap on the field!!
                • Metsie June 7, 2011 at 2:57 pm

                  OK Alex here is where we prove your just talking out of your ass and making things up…

                  QUOTE where I said or APPOINTED these three stooges winners!

                  If you can’t then your a proven liar!

                  Keep Sucking HarryC’s balls why don’t you?
              • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 1:40 pm

                by the way, capuano 3-6 5.20 at 1.5 million
                young 1-1 4 starts 1.5 million
                francis (outbid by kc) 2-6 4.20 ERA 2 million
            • NYMetsfan June 7, 2011 at 6:56 pm

              How are you not banned again yet?

              You are an insult to all baseball fans, giving the guy a chance does not equate to sucking this man’s cohoones

              GET A CLUE you child
• Sach C. June 7, 2011 at 10:43 am

  Finally a level-headed post about this.
• Mr North Jersey June 7, 2011 at 12:03 pm

  I’ve spent the morning reading posts around the blogosphere about the Mets draft yesterday and while we won’t know if this Nimmo kid will ever make it to the bigs let alone excel in it I find the decisions behind picking him one’s I like.

  “We are looking for guys, not ones who can just get here, but who can get here and make a difference, because that’s the way we’re going to win 95 games, 100 games.” – DePodesta

  “The other part is this is a long-term plan. We’re not necessarily looking for quick fixes. We hopefully plan on being here for a while. We’re really trying to do this right. Sometimes that does take a while. We’re not going to take a guy just because he might be the quickest mover to the big leagues.” – DePodesta

  “We weren’t interested in making the safest pick. We were interested in making the pick that had the best chance to make the biggest impact.” – Chad MacDonald

  I like what is being said here if the pick pays off only time will tell but the reasoning behind it I like. Add to that this Nimmo kid has a commitment to Arkansas and is seeking #3M to sign. The Mets were not afraid by this when drafting him. I don’t know what the slot recommendations are but it may require going over slot to sign him. Now we wait to see if they do and for how much.

  The ACL injury in 2009 is a concern but when i read “he came back this season to win the 400-meter state title in 51.45 seconds.” I was not as concerned. Still it is something that will demand attention going forward.

  To quote T Agee,
  “Like the idea that we went high school, top talent position player. Like it a lot, just hopeing we took the right guy. Time will tell.”
• Metsie June 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm

  I really have no problem saying those rookie evaluations of BA are all subjective.
  The problem is it is that same publication that will be used (by people here if you read here regularly) to judge pass or fail instead of pure performance whenever the term PROSPECT or GOOD DRAFT PICK is argued later on!

  There are many here who dismiss all the performance guys like Turner, Tejada, Murphy, and Davis when evaluating past picks MERELY because Baseball America didn’t include them in thier top 100 Prospect list!

  I am certainly not going to judge who they took until he passes or fails as an acquisition.

  No one else should either.

  Just remember this as time passes….
  If you disagree with the selection they made then you are already one move down the path of hating this FO if you currently love them, or one step closer to loving them if you currently HATE them!

  And I WILL be quoting you when that flip happens! LOL
• Bayonne Mets Fan June 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm

  “It is a completely new scouting team that has shown from past draft experience they are first-rate.”

  Again, why do people say these things when it’s clearly not true. Why are they first-rate? There’s been a lot of winning going on the last few years and I don’t hear any of these guys names associated with any winning so why are they first-rate? What makes them better than Minnesota or Tampa Bay? What makes them better than Chicago?

  Nicholas,
  Please tell what players these guys drafted in the past that went to success and be important pieces in winning championships for teams?

  Or just give me ANY names of players these guys have drafted and have had major league success – leading to your description of them being first-rate? Please tell us.

  Or do you just simply love sabermetrics and that silly book? Is that the reason you call them first-rate?
  • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    blake dewitt and his 381 slugging % !!!!!
    • Bayonne Mets Fan June 7, 2011 at 12:24 pm

      There’s plenty of great ballplayers in MLB today – which ones has he signed? How has he earned the title of first-rate?

      I’m trying to get to the bottom of this and I hope Mr. Pugliese responds. Who are the players Depodesta have signed, what are they doing in MLB today?

      There are plenty of great MLB players all over the majors today and some really great prospects too- so who are the ones that were signed by Depo or any of the other members of the Holy Trinity.

      Nicholas, please tell me so I can understand why these guys are “first-rate” I only associated first-rate with Winning but what do i know
      • jessep June 7, 2011 at 12:57 pm

        Bayonne: I think when people talk about DePodesta they like to mention his entire body of work, not just the 2 seasons he spent as GM for the Dodgers

        It’s pretty common knowledge that he played a major role in the draft for the Oakland A’s so if you accept that then you have to acknowledge Zito, Ludwick, Harden, Crosby, Bonderman, Ethier (twice), Swisher, Blanton, Ziegler, Papelbon, DeWitt, DPrice.

        Did they all sign? No. But if you’re talking who did DePodesta pick out of a crop of players, then that’s his resume.

        You also cannot ignore his time with San Diego which currently half of their top rated prospects are from drafts when he was employed there (some with Alderson), and the rest are from the AGone trade.

        I don’t think I buy into the fact that any one person is better at the draft than another. What I do think is that his philosophy seems to be different than the previous administration, and that is something I’m excited for.

        I’m happy to try something new when the same old same old seems to fail.
        • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 1:18 pm

          again, bayonne’s quoestion has been WHO HAS DEPODESTA SIGNED OR EARN TITLE OF FIRST GRADE!!??
          if you gonna jump in can you at least present some facts!!?? if not, then sTfU!!
          • Bayonne Mets Fan June 7, 2011 at 1:30 pm

            that’s why i didn’t respond to him alex because:

            1) He just assumed i was referring to only his time with LA
            2) I’m not counting all the times that maybe Depo just happened to be sitting at the table while somebody else was picking the players
            3) If i thought that way then I’d say Don Zimmer is just as responsible for the 90s Yankees success as Joe Torre so therefore that means that Don Zimmer would have the same success as a manager as Torre.

            I mean c’mon – this guy expects me to believe what he just said and go “oh okay”
            • jessep June 7, 2011 at 1:43 pm

              But surely you understand the difference between DePodesta’s time spent with Oakland as Assistant GM where his primary role was amateur scouting and player development is different than Don Zimmer?

              I mean…you could make a very legitimate argument that DePodesta has more input on who to draft than the GM does or did considering all the other things the GM is doing…

              I just don’t know what you want? You wanna kill the guy for everybody that likes him, and I wanna wait and see… I just don’t see what being so hateful towards him accomplishes?

              The previous formula was not working. When was the last time you said “the Mets farm system is so deep, we’re gonna be nasty in 4 years.”

              And when I say deep I don’t mean because they have Eddie Kunz.

              So why the hate? Is it fear or trying something new?
              • t agee June 7, 2011 at 1:47 pm

                The fear is that we might be diverting away from the path that has won us a NL East Pennant in the last 23 years. Something the Pittsburgh Pirates have done three times in the same period despite the fact that they haven’t even been in the NL East for the last 18 years.
                • Bayonne Mets Fan June 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm

                  Anyway,

                  We’re now gonna get back to the subject. Here’s alex’s question:

                  alex68 says:
                  June 7, 2011 at 1:18 pm
                  again, bayonne’s quoestion has been WHO HAS DEPODESTA SIGNED OR EARN TITLE OF FIRST GRADE!!??
                  if you gonna jump in can you at least present some facts!!?? if not, then sTfU!!

                  That’s the question. Very simple now what’s the answer?
                  • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 3:07 pm

                    HOW IS IT CHANGING??? because they drafted a OF with knee issues? they got eamus in rule 5? sign harris and hairston? please bro.. go away!!!
                  • jessep June 7, 2011 at 3:04 pm

                    Those aren’t my words, so I can’t defend them. The truth is, I can’t tell you one way or the other who is and who isn’t a good drafter in MLB. The truth is SO many people have a hand in the drafting of players that it is impossible to say who is better at it.

                    All I’m saying is the philosophy is changing, and its a new way of thinking for the NY Mets and that is something I like.
        • Met Maniac June 7, 2011 at 1:36 pm

          Oh, ok.
        • Vinny B June 7, 2011 at 3:01 pm

          If THAT’S a “first rate draft” then what do you call these?

          Larry Bienfest: Cliff Lee, Jason Bay, Sizemore, Fred Lewis, Josh Johsnon, Hermida, Nick Hundley, Olsen, Vargas, Tankersly, Gabby Sanchez, Morrison, Volstad, Coglhan, and Mike Stanton.

          Ed Wade: Burrell, Howard, Utley, Hamels, Meyers, Bourn, Floyd, Madson, Byrd, Punto, Kendrick, Happ, and T bucholz.

          I’ll take those two guys drafts over Depo’s…it’s not even close in my opinion – If I had more time I would look at other GM’s too, maybe sometime later today i’ll get around to it.

          And about Depo’s draft where they got their top prospects from, you can’t judge that draft yet because it’s still too early.
          • alex68 June 7, 2011 at 3:06 pm

            vinny:

            MR KNOW IT ALL will not answer.. don’t bother, we waited all afternoon for him to give us what has the great depodesta signed or earn a title of grade A player that made him a great scout… don’t bother man.. all he wants to do is “debate” w/o any facts or conclusion, nor will admit when he’s dead wrong which is 95% of the time.. yes you jessePodesta
            • jessep June 7, 2011 at 3:10 pm

              and again I didn’t say that, so I’m not sure why you’re waiting on me to defend something I did not say.

              The MLB Draft depends on your scouts, your team of personnel that make the selections, your budget for scouting, and then your development budget and personnel that works with these players

              To say 1 guy is better at drafting is saying he’s better at less than 25% of what it takes to get a player to the bigs in my view
          • jessep June 7, 2011 at 3:08 pm

            Vinny: Again, its not apples to apples. So much has to do with the scouting budgets too wouldn’t you agree?

            Also, you’re comparing Ed Wade’s time as GM of a BAD team to DePodesta’s time with the A’s who were good, and his 2 years with the Dodgers.

            DePodesta didn’t get 8 years of failed seasons as GM like Wade did.

            The same can be said for Beinfest with Florida.

            It’s like saying TB’s GM is better than STL’s because he got guys like Price, Longoria etc. When the reason he got them was because his team was bad.
            • Vinny B June 7, 2011 at 4:05 pm

              not true in this case – Sizemore, Lee, Bay, Johnson, Sanchez, Morrison, Stanton, weren’t 1st round picks.

              Wade had Burrell and Floyd as high picks #1 and #4, and Utley, Hamels, and Meyers in the middle of the 1st, but he still got Howard as a 5th rd, Bourn as 4th, Madson in the 9th, Byrd in the 10th, he also got Saunders and Ziegler late in the draft – I forgot about them – So to say it was ALL because of having HIGH 1st round picks is not true, and in the case of Beinfest none of the top guys he drafted were 1st round picks.

              I also belive that Depo overall had more 1st round picks in total – so he had an advantage.
              • t agee June 7, 2011 at 6:22 pm

                Wade had some good drafts and like you said very little to do with top 5 picks. Didn’t he draft Rollins in the 2nd too and JD Drew with the first overall pick and then Borass wouldn’t negotiate?

                Wade also drafted Victorinno in the rule 5 and got Ruiz out of Panama.

                Not a bad job.
                • Vinny B June 7, 2011 at 7:48 pm

                  Agee, I think he was assistant to the general manager when Rollins was drafted. But Jessep is counting depo’s picks when he wasn’t gm with the A’s, so Wade’s picks as assistant to the GM should count too.

                  So his picks look like this: Rollins, Drew, Wolf, Turnbow, Burrell, Howard, Utley, Hamels, Meyers, Bourn, Floyd, Madson, Byrd, Punto, Kendrick, Happ, Saunders, Ziegler, and T bucholz.
                  • t agee June 7, 2011 at 8:05 pm

                    Vinny, you have to admit that’s the way to fill out a roster huh? I believe he was also adding those guys to Rolen, Abreu and Burrell and picking up Victorino and Ruiz.

                    Nice job.
                  • Vinny B June 8, 2011 at 11:15 am

                    Oh of course. the Mets should be trying to build their team like the Phillies. As you can see they have great drafts, and then traded guys like, Bourn for Lidge, Happ for Oswalt, and Drabek for Halladay. Wade did a terrifc job drafting, Gillick made trades to put the over the top, and Amaro was able to keep the team a winner, made big trades, and the Phillies are still able to have a good minor league system.

                    Four of the five teams drafts that I talked about now have winning records, the Twins don’t because they got killed by injuries to Mauer, Liriano, and Mournea hasn’t been the same since the concussion, but they made the playoffs the last two years. While Depo’s teams A’s, Padres, and Dodgers all have losing records.
              • Vinny B June 7, 2011 at 8:18 pm

                While we wait for Jeesep to respond here are two more GM’s that drafted alot better than Depo.

                Joe Garagiola, Jr.: Capuano, Overbay, Webb, Kinsler (twice) Uggla, Chad Tracey, S Hairston, S Smith, Chris Snyder, Sergio Santos, Carlos Quentin, Conor Jackson, Coglhan, Stephen Drew, Mark Reynolds, David Hernandez, Ross Olendorf, and Justin Upton.

                Terry Ryan: Cuddyer, Justin Morneua, Mauer, J.J Putz, Adam Lind, Matt Garza, J.C romero, Punto, Maholm, Kubel, Blackbrun, Vargas, Span, Jesse Crain, Pat Neshek, Evan Meek, Scott Baker, Slowey, and Brian Duensing.
                • Bayonne Mets Fan June 7, 2011 at 8:22 pm

                  You should make this a fan post Vinny and bring those UnAmazin Avenue geeks to their knees with a dose of reality.
                • Vinny B June 8, 2011 at 12:35 am

                  And one more for tonight:

                  Walt Jockety: Pujols, Nady, A Kennedy, Ankiel, J.D Drew, Jack Wilson, Cocco Crisp, Y Molina, C Naverson, Dan Haren, K Correia, Schumaker, J Mather, K Mcclellan, Brenden Ryan, Daric Barton, Max Scherzer, Ian Kennedy, J Motte, Colby Rasmus, Jamie Garcia, D McCutchen, Chris Perez, Luke Gergerson, Jon Jay, and Allen Craig.

                  As you can see, that’s a lot better than Depo.
• alex68 June 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm

  i will say this, is most likely that in 3 years jed bradley will be in the majors and our knee shattered #1 pick will be struggling to find a way to the minor leagues as a forgotten man
• DaveG June 7, 2011 at 1:46 pm

  Nice post! Enjoyed the read.
• California student June 7, 2011 at 1:53 pm

  Would rather have a high ceiling high school player than a “safe pick” choice like Eddie Kuntz.
• lindro June 7, 2011 at 3:01 pm

  How about leaving it to Sandy Alderson, and his front office. Anyone on here complaining, or pretending the mets did anything to dupe the fans is just a negative type, who will say anyting contrary to what the team does.
• jdon June 7, 2011 at 7:18 pm

  Really, how many people here get to see college baseball players play? You might see a little at the College WS, but the sport is not highly televised? The opinions flow, though. Personally, I always take a wait and see about these things. Why put my foot in my mouth now. There is plenty of time for that.
• bk June 7, 2011 at 7:57 pm

  I still say we should’ve taken a pitcher.
• Will June 7, 2011 at 8:50 pm

  Great job with the wilpon press release. Complete trash. Pitching wins championships. Get a clue
  • Even Flow June 7, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    How about YOU get a clue & actually LEARN something you tool? Everything you say and write is complete trash.
• Will June 7, 2011 at 9:30 pm

  Why don’t u get off your knees and stop suc%king sandy prick and call a spade a spade. No bench no pitching and under .500 again. Use the offseason to built a team not sign recycled trash nobody wants. The only tool is you beleving wilpon made a good hire. That just does not happen.
  • Even Flow June 7, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    LMFAO idiotic little dipshits like you who think he knows everything are so funny. If I haven’t explained it last night, I’ll explain it again because you’re too stupid not to get something the first time.

    Last year’s FA class SUCKED. What part of that do you not understand? The above-average talent last offseason were far and few. No pitching? That’s funny. Niese, Gee, Dickey, and for a good while, the bullpen were very good for us. Under .500? We are 3, count it, THREE games under .500 and only 5 games out of the Wild Card! The trade deadline, which will be make or break time for the Mets to see which direction they’ll go, hasn’t happened yet. The bench won’t even stay the same after the deadline. The current guys riding the pine are living on borrowed time. Stop acting like it’s September already you f***ing MORON!
    • Da Madd Genius June 8, 2011 at 6:47 pm

      stop acting like Sandy has done anything different than the previous regime. Its not September, but the Mets are underacheiving once again, and there are questions about whether the GM is doing the right thing no matter how many brainwashed guys like you there are. Most Met fans aren’t swallowing the genius kool aid and this draft is just another thing that makes us wonder why everyone wanted to crown Sandy our lord and savior in the first place
      • Even Flow June 8, 2011 at 7:00 pm

        “genius kool aid”, “brainwashed”, “lord and savior”

        Where have I seen these words before from a certain someone?

        Here’s a fun idea: How about we wait until next month to see if moves will be made at the deadline? How about when our main guys come back like Davis, Wright and Santana, we find out how “underachieving” the Mets are? You know, the same Mets who started out 5-13 in April & clowns like you were ready to throw in the towel? Only ones with the questions are the stubborn, inbred, impatient dumbasses such as yourself.

        Do you have anything original to say? Even comedians have new material after a while. It’s fun exposing you for the fraud (look at that, another one of your trademark rant words) you are.
      • Donal June 8, 2011 at 7:21 pm

        “stop acting like Sandy has done anything different than the previous regime.”

        He cuts players that are underperforming and drafts players based on upside, not need. 2 things right there.

        “Its not September, but the Mets are underacheiving once again,”

        Actually, they are pretty on target for their predicted record. They’re 2 games ahead of their Pythagorean projection. That is slightly over achieving.

        “and there are questions about whether the GM is doing the right thing”

        As there should be. However, some of us are more reasonable in our expectations and analysis than others.

        “no matter how many brainwashed guys like you there are.”

        In other words, guys who don’t regurgitate the dreck from Francesa and the Post.

        “Most Met fans ”

        Oh, you did a survey?

        “aren’t swallowing the genius kool aid”

        genius kool aid? Is that like grape kool aid?

        “his draft is just another thing ”

        That you don’t understand, so you’re lashing out in anger over

        “us wonder why everyone wanted to crown Sandy our lord and savior in the first place”

        Actually, I’m wondering who ever did such a thing
        • XtreemIcon June 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm

          Uh oh. You invoked the Pythag. You know you’re gonna catch hell for that, right?
          • Donal June 8, 2011 at 7:35 pm

            Oh, hold on….

            Umm gritty, and heart and dirty unifroms and RIIIINGS and RBIs and TRAED DAYVID WRONG HES A CHOEKR!!!!!

            Think that will fix it?
            • XtreemIcon June 9, 2011 at 12:01 pm

              Ok, we’re good now.