It’s Time to Move On From Failure

50 Comments + Add Comment

• larry b June 19, 2011 at 12:25 pm

  Great post…We’ll see how well the new metsies do with a bunch of 1.5 mil a year players. If we’re real lucky maybew we can surpass the record of the Pirates for losing seasons. People like you are really out of touch. You beleive one man makes a team totally and blame him for the crap he is surrounded by, instead of blaming the GM for failing to develop a team around a truly great player. Please, root for those Buccos. They fit your demands oh so perfectly.
  • jessep June 19, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    You’re right because blindly spending money on players who haven’t earned it is a way better route to go. I see the future and I see people like you complaining about the amount of $ Jose is making as a Met if they ever extend him. Why? Because he won’t be 2011 Jose. Keep pretending 2011 is a better example of things to expect from Jose over the next 7 years. We’ll see who is right
    • metsaddict77 June 19, 2011 at 12:46 pm

      jose isn’t perfect but this article makes him sound like a joke.those two collapses you can’t blame on any one player, the team collectively lost those years.jose is not old and over the hill,there’s no reason why we can’t biuld around him moving forward, through the draft or free agency etc.
      • NYMetsfan June 19, 2011 at 2:22 pm

        That’s funny in one camp of “fans” all I read about is how it was Wright’s fault.
    • t agee June 19, 2011 at 7:19 pm

      Jessep. I disagree but I understand your arguement. It’s a tough call but I would draw the line on any financial committment after age 32. That means five years, no more. Club option w/buyout? Sure why not but one thing the Wilpon has shown above all is an almost incredible lack of developing any truly good prospects.

      Will they turn the two picks into worthwhile Major League players or just meekly adhere to slotting guidelines? Just cause they selected some good high school talent this year doesn’t mean they will next year. They still have to sign most of 2011′s draft anyway.

      The July 2nd IFA signing period is closing for IFA’s. Granted there are less leaks in this FO but have you read or heard of us being linked to anyone that could be described as a potential difference maker?

      Basically since the Wilpon became a full 50% owner of the Mets in November of 1986 they have brought into the organization one future All Star from the draft and one future All Star from the IFA market. That’s it. Two All Stars in 25 years. All the other talent has been the big expensive free agent which no longer seems like a likely source of future production and a handful of talented farmhands rushed here before their time and a pile of other teams rejects. We still have no real catcher. LF is giving us sub par production and probably will for another 2 1/2 years. RF offensively will more closely resemble a CFers production next year if Niuwenhauss makes it at all. 2B would be iffy but but potentially OK with Murphy and Turner and Davis and Wright should be good but overall that’s not really anywhere near the talent level needed to compete for a post season. Maybe if absolutely everything goes perfect but how often does that happen?

      Bottom line. Reyes gets turned into one guy who gets a cup of coffee and one guy who washes out. That’s not worth giving up our best player for. We still want to be able to watch the games.

      It doesn’t even make sence from an economic standpoint. Ticket sales, concessions, parking ad revenue, SNY No one’s tuning in to watch Thole, Duda, Bay, Parnell, Pridie, Acosta, Beato, Murphy. Those guys have their place but still…..
    • METS62FAN June 20, 2011 at 12:13 pm

      Ive yet to read a more myopic posting on these boards to date perfectly illustrated by these sewntiments, “I’m tired of seeing people pretend that Jose Reyes’ 2011 season is exactly who Jose Reyes is. When a player has a career year at age 28, in the year of his contract expiring, I’m sorry but that is awfully convenient.

      For those so in love with Jose Reyes that they blindly justify a 7 year deal, I ask you why? What has Jose Reyes done for the NY Mets over his 9 years as a Met?”

      To wit my response is only a person more comfortabnle wearing a doomsday warning sandwich sign would deliberately ignore the long established age criteria for baseball players as between the ages of 28-31.
      You are certainly accurate in ponting to his past socalled failures to live up to everyone’s vewry high expectations choosing to evaluate his finally maturing into his skills as oportunisticly contrasct related.

      I’ve yet to hear or read anyone of importance outside of that known investment maven, Fred Wilpon draw a comparison between Reyes & Crawford’s deal, not Reyes, not Greenberg, not Jose’s personal rep within Greenberg. If as u rediculously contrive there was actually any relativity between Jose’s performance to date & his contract status would he have discarded his best oportunity to “CASH IN” by avoiding & denying Boras? (NB, most contract push anomylies are from players who’ve performed far beyond projected expectations for their career. Jose, this season is simply fulfuilling what has long been expected)
      Ture, Reyes suffererd from the fatigue of playinmg with only 5 days off between ’07 & ’08 in both Septembers abdsolutely proving your point he’s NOT a machine; but truly flesh & blood positioned @ one of the more intensly demanding positions. All too often I get the incling those of u still dealing with the NYY daily, living in NY have lost sight of the mormal trevails suffered by young talent place under immense pressure since it’s been so absent in THE BRONX. Gtrisled mercenary vets are much less likely to personally pressure themselves into ineffectiveness as they attempt to course correct an entire ‘franchise going South’ on their(Reyes,Wright) own efforts.
      Of ALL the positions in a batting order least likely to carry a club with regularity, the leadoff position in the NL is a prime candidate for inability to do so.
      I personally, have seen nearly every game since the MLB pkg was made available & certainly religously tune in to SNY for their rambling,ditheringly scripted head shows between 5:00PM-6:30PM & have seen no evidence ditrectly leading anyone to think Reyes’ plans are mercenary in nature, I certainly supoport a realistic 5Y offer between 90-100M. It’s sad when someone esposing to be a NYM fan is too blinded by NYY envy to truly evaluate what they’ve so long taken for granted. BTW, it’s not just this yr that Reyes has been so superlative; it’s only this year where he’s been so remarkable as to make everyone notice Opinions can vary; but facts can’t. The most important facts are that regardless of the other 8 on the field for the Mets whenever Reyes participates in less than 83% of the team’s games(136G) the team’s record changes from 286-361(’03,’04,’09,’10) compared to those Seasons with his participation being better than 136G) to a near oposite 361-287 (’05,’06,’07,’08). Simply a difference between a .442 W% & a .573 W%! FROM THAT MAINLY INEFFECTUAL LEADOFF CAPACITY; 7 years is a rediculously long contract for any player to live up to, I can’t think of any who I’d bet would. Is there any other current MLB SS u would prefer to replace him with? U better have 30,000 paying friends who think the same. As I read items such as this, I’m harkened back to that Dick, Young on the “afrontary of that upstart Seaver.”
    • chinorules65 June 20, 2011 at 10:01 pm

      Jessep I bet you don’t know what i’m ready for? For you to be an ex-fan.
• Tommy2cat June 19, 2011 at 12:50 pm

  Hi Jessup:

  While I disagree with your position on Reyes, I understand and appreciate your point of view.

  I am enjoying watching Reyes enter into his prime and mature as an individual as well as a ballplayer. I would consider it tragic to trade a player so loyal to the organization, so talented on the field and so electrifying that he can galvanize a team.

  His current performance cannot be excised from the analysis, which is something your post appears to gloss over like a footnote.

  I absolutely disagree – Jose Reyes should be retained and respected.
• LL June 19, 2011 at 12:55 pm

  Well I’ll say I do agree that Reyes largely got a pass for his very subpar performance down the stretches of 2007 and 2008. People jump all over Wright and/or Beltran for not being “clutch” enough, but at least on an offensive perspective (the pitching was still the biggest reason they didn’t win those years) Reyes had a lot more to do with the failure down the stretch then either of those two. And I also agree that to this point people are a little to giddy about the Mets record. Hovering around .500 (and mostly below .500)isn’t something people should be that pumped up about, and as you said last yr despite Reyes not performing nearly as well, and no Beltran, the Mets were about 10 games over .500.

  However, I can’t say I agree with any of the rest of what you said. Just because a team doesn’t win, doesn’t mean they never will. Rollins was a Phillie for about 8 yrs before they won a playoff game. Utley and some others were there for plenty of failure as well. Reyes and Wright are still in their late 20s and have plenty of years left. Not winning by age 27 doesn’t mean a player will never win.

  And gold gloves and MVPs are relatively meaningless awards. Not saying that Reyes should have won an MVP, he shouldn’t have (at least not until this point…he should be in the running at this point for this year), but there have been many times over the years the most deserving candidate doesn’t win, so I wouldnt site a players hardware or lack thereof as a reason he should go.
• 86mets June 19, 2011 at 4:43 pm

  Yes, Jose Reyes is a bust, what are we thinking?

  Here are some interesting stats:

  .290 Career BA (7th all time for the franchise)

  687 Career Runs Scored (1st all time for the Mets, ahead of Mookie, Straw, Piazza, etc., etc.)

  1,221 Career Hits (2nd all time behind Ed Kranepool who played MUCH longer and wasn’t 1/2 as talented as Jose, no disrespect intended to Mr. Kranepool)

  1,853 Career Total Bases (5th all time)

  211 Career Doubles (5th all time also)

  95 Career Triples (1st time and 33 ahead of 2nd place Mookie Wilson)

  357 Career Stolen Bases (1st all time and 76 ahead of 2nd place Wilson)

  662 Runs Created (6th all time behind Wright, Strawberry,Piazza, Alfonzo, Johnson)

  383 Extra Base Hits (5th all time behind sluggers Strawberry, Wright, Johnson, Piazza)

  1,541 Times on Base (8th all time)

  Okay, so the last 8 years were just absolutely TERRIBLE for Jose Reyes! He accomplished nothing prior to his career year of 2011. While I will agree that this season is likely fueled by his pending free agency, I also do NOT agree that the Mets need to move on past him. Do the Mets have a plan B if Reyes walks or they trade him? NO. Reuben Tejeda? That’s a joke. Wilmer Flores? Again, a joke. Flores hasn’t proven yet that he is all that good a hitter nor has he shown that he’ll be able to stay at SS.

  You don’t think Jose Reyes is a franchise player? Non-franchise players don’t rack up THAT many all time top 10 rankings. Okay, he has lost some time to injuries, but not that many. And the seasons he has been able to stay healthy he has put up awfully good numbers. What exactly are you expecting? .330, 45 2B, 20 3B, 80 SB, 130 Runs every year?

  Here is Jose Reyes’ 162 Game average in the Major Leagues:

  112 Runs Scored, 199 Hits, .290 BA, 34 2B, 16 3B, 13 HR, 51 SB
  (See Baseball-Reference.com)

  Is that not worthy of being labeled a Franchise Player? Or is it his career .339 OBP what’s keeping him from getting that title? AVERAGING 112 Runs despite that OBP is pretty much still a Franchise Player. There is a lot wrong with this team, but Jose Reyes is NOT one of them.
  • any June 19, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    keep in mind 2 when looking that his averages that he was called up very early, and probably before he was ready.

    if he had spent another 1-2 years developing in the minors, and came up at say age 22, most likely he would have had better career averages.
  • Met Maniac June 19, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Terrible post 86mets!

    All those numbers mean absolutely nothing!

    And how convenient of you to leave off the most important stat in the world, OBP!

    Why do you think the Mets are doing so GREAT this season? It’s because they lead the NL in OBP!

    Oh and by the way, NEWS FLASH! Stolen bases are a footnote!!!!

    I wish I could have my 4 minutes back!
    • NYMetsfan June 19, 2011 at 6:04 pm

      Hold the press………….so numbers of Jose mean something, but when people post Wright’s numbers they are not, just stat padding……….

      I love the hypocrisy of Mets fans
      • Met Maniac June 19, 2011 at 6:31 pm

        Wright? You want to compare Wright to Jose Reyes?

        While Jose Reyes excels as a leadoff hitter, Wright has failed as a #3 hitter.

        I dont hate Wright, just bat the wuss #5 where he belongs. The excuses that he has no protection dont work anymore, he’s 29. Next season he’s 30, get rid of his butt now.

        Wright peaked in 2007 and has gone downhill ever since.

        Ike Davis had Henry Blanco protecting him, and this season Josh Thole.

        Angel Pagan hits whether you bat him 2nd, cleanup or 7th.

        Build the team around Reyes and Ike.
        • t agee June 19, 2011 at 7:42 pm

          Move Flores to 3B in AA, Lutz is in AAA and can be an emergency at 3B, SS is a totally different animal Ruben did not look that good range wise at SS to me last year and he does look great defensively at 2B and with Murphy and Turner your covered so Tejada can backup SS. Wright can return a couple of picks in 2014 or someone could blow us away cause we can cover that position. Let Reyes go and Tejada gets hurt we are finished.

          From a purely baseball standpoint if Reyes is half the player he is this year he’s worth 20 M a year. From an economic standpoint he’s worth coming out to watch and tune into, on both sides of the ball. From an emotional standpoint he’s our guy. From 16-19 you heard about him and we’ve watched him for eight years now. With as many declining freaks that the Wilpon has showered cash upon over here that played like they were on the senior tour why should we be deprived of watching one of our own during his 28, 29, 30, 31 and 32 year old seasons?

          I don’t know if 5/100 puts us in the ballpark but if it does there no excuse. just the thought of tuning into see Bay in the lineup everyday and no Jose is enough to keep most people from even bothering.
        • NYMetsfan June 19, 2011 at 7:56 pm

          Thanks for proving my point – he’s a wuss, yeah right.

          The only constant since he came up, 100 rbi’s EVERY year, on or close to 30 homeruns every year (sans 09) and he’s a wuss.

          The guy gets off to a slow start for the first time of his career and he’s a wuss – lets forget that he was playing with a fractured back.

          Yeah his K’s are up

          Peaked in 07?????? So I guess you slept through 08 with his .302 Ba, 33 homeruns, 42 doubles, 124 RBI’s.

          WUSS?

          You have got to be kidding me………

          I love how some fans can bask in one players success, yet bash another who’s been as successful but you make up excuses.

          Hypocrisy….thanks for proving my point
          • Nym June 19, 2011 at 8:29 pm

            Clearly you aren’t paying enough attention. 3 months of 2011 is the only thing that matters. So Wright stinks and Reyes is awesome. Ignore the facts that Wright was better than Reyes from 2005-2010..that doesn’t matter now. Only Reyes deserves praise. And stats are only allowed when used to prove Jose Reyes is awesome…they don’t count in reference to Wright. Unless you are talking about strikeouts…then stats are allowed. But other than that, no real math…just talk about “gut feel” and “eyes”.
            Mets fans are apparently contractually obligated to hate on one of the best players on their team every year. 2005-2008 it was mostly Beltran, now its Wright’s turn. Gotta get your rip on.

            And clearly it takes a wuss to go on the DL with a fractured back. He ONLY managed to play a stinkin month with that. I mean its not like he had a sore hamstring or a sore quad or something or a real injury like that. Its only a bone in his back..how important is that?
        • Nym June 19, 2011 at 8:05 pm

          Haha, thats pretty silly.

          Wright has been fine as a #3 hitter. He has great numbers for his career regardless of where he hits. And the 29 HR 100+ RBI, 131 OPS+ numbers he put up last yr are hardly failure.

          The Reyes hitting 3rd experiment was a failure… Wright hitting 3, is not a failure. And regardless whether he hits 3rd or 5th it doesn’t really matter.

          And the definition of Angel Pagan hitting, Reyes hitting etc is vastly different from what is considered good hitting from Wright. Outside of what Reyes is doing this season in what is a remarkable career year, any year that he or Pagan has had in their careers, or what Ike did last yr would be considered an epic failure from Wright. Wheras what Wright did last yr would be considered a great year for any of those 3.
    • XtreemIcon June 19, 2011 at 6:07 pm

      Well, obviously Jose Reyes is much more than OBP. Anyone who thinks otherwise or thinks Alderson thinks otherwise is just looking for things to complain about or doesn’t pay attention. But isn’t it pretty convenient that he’s having his best offensive season while putting up an OBP 50 points higher than his career OBP?

      Probably nothing to it. Probably just a coincidence.
      • Met Maniac June 19, 2011 at 6:27 pm

        I dont care if this is a career year. I know the Moneyballers would rather go after guys who have crap years like Hu, Hairston and Harris and hope for comeback seasons.

        All I’m wanting from Jose Reyes is to do what’s he’s done for seven years as 86mets wrote:

        Here is Jose Reyes’ 162 Game average in the Major Leagues:

        112 Runs Scored, 199 Hits, .290 BA, 34 2B, 16 3B, 13 HR, 51 SB

        I can live with that from our shortstop. You go ahead and pencil in Ruben Tejada because he’s a winning player and at $400k is all about value.

        SMH
        • XtreemIcon June 19, 2011 at 7:04 pm

          Wait, do you even read this site? You think I want Ruben Tejada at SS right now? Are you new here?

          Also, “I know the Moneyballers would rather go after guys who have crap years like Hu, Hairston and Harris and hope for comeback seasons.”

          A) How do you KNOW that?
          B) Are you aware I can’t stand Willie Harris and have been extremely vocal about it since he signed?
          C) There are several comments from Bayonne, for one, who was optomistic about the bench when the season began.+
          D) What are Moneyballers?
          • t agee June 19, 2011 at 7:23 pm

            Yeah well bayonne was optomisitc about Bay this year and Jacobs last year so what does that tell you.
            • XtreemIcon June 19, 2011 at 7:32 pm

              I think Parnell was supposed to “take the next step” as well.
              • t agee June 19, 2011 at 7:52 pm

                Duda, Mejia, Tejada, Thole, everyone. Everyone always is gonna work out, until they don’t. Then it was bad luck ON THE FIELD.

                Unless it’s the new GM of course. Then it’s bad planning. Unlike Schowenweiss, Mota, Wagner, Bay, Alou, Perez, Castillo, Pedro, Fern, Mejia, Humber, Pelfrey, Murphy in LF, Putz, Redding, Livan, Maine, Schneider, Church, Barajas, Cora, Cattalonotto, Hessman, Sullivan.

                That was all just bad luck. ON THE FIELD.
                • XtreemIcon June 19, 2011 at 8:01 pm

                  Meh. I like Tejada a lot. Mejia is still as good a prospect as there is. But other than that you’re obviously 100% right.
  • NYMetsfan June 19, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Yep – that’s what the writer said, he’s terrible.

    Another comment written by someone that was failed by our educations system.
• any June 19, 2011 at 4:49 pm

  “When a player has a career year at age 28, in the year of his contract expiring, I’m sorry but that is awfully convenient.”

  Here, you are reaching. Or thinking about the NBA, where guys do this.

  it seems clear that you are implying that Reyes 9or any player in this situation) was easily capable of doing better in prior years, but did not care to try. And that next year, after signing a big deal, he will stop caring or trying and tail off.

  I will respectfully disagree. and maybe you can find some dogs that profile this way, but there is zippo evidence that jose is one of them.

  Maybe, he is having a big year, because this is what is normally considered the prime of his career, and when guys have their biggest output years?

  will he continue it? I would guess that sure, for the next couple of years he could maintain a similar output. into his early/mid 30s, he will tail off some.

  But hell, if you want really good players, you better be willing to pay them (and often “too much”), unless you can keep generating cheap studs out of the system.

  you are correct though that down the stretch those 2 years he had poor septembers. Why? who knows. Could have gotten tired, felt the pressure, immaturity (he was at the time only 25), or lots of other factors. and while he did not help much, the team was scoring plenty of runs, and anything passing for a decent pen they make the playoffs easily.

  but, I am not willing to say that this year was a fluke, and he will fade away next year into mediocrity.
• any June 19, 2011 at 4:53 pm

  also, none of us know what the team will do with the money saved by not signing reyes (if he walks). But I suspect it does not get spent on any other top talent. maybe spread around 1/2 to some mid-level guys, and the other 1/2 pocketed by Fred. But regardless, I find it hard to believe that they will have a better team next year on the field without reyes than if they retain him.
• jdon June 19, 2011 at 8:08 pm

  Reyes has had some impressive offensive years. What I disliked about Jose was that he did not improve year by year. Now, suddenly, with FA staring him in the face, he shows improvement in several areas. This makes me suspicious. Oh, he will still fall asleep in the field and on the bases, but he has been working counts more and going the other way with success. See, Jose plays on emotion. People love that, but it is not a winning formula. It is why he swings at so many bad pitches in big spots. Because emotion takes over. And I do not know if that will ever change. I would not mind them keeping him on a 4 year deal for 16 mil. per. I would take my chances on one year being thrown away to injury. But would I get max production all of the years he was able to play? Probably not. I have seen Jose’s emotion wax and wane. Therefore I would not give him 7 years at 20 mil or even at 16 mil. He will not only be more prone to injury but he will lose a step or two, and that, due both to his lack of good baseball instincts and a strong mental approach to the game, would diminish his productivity to a level of average or slightly better. Now when you also consider that the guy might just get a 7 year 20+ mil offer from some clown out there in FA, you might as well set your sights elsewhere and decide what to do with him. I think they could get something good for him, particularly from a team like SF. But 2 draft picks if nothing materializes.
• Nick June 19, 2011 at 8:09 pm

  You want change my friend.. Trade David Wright, how about that for drastic moves.
• larry b June 19, 2011 at 8:11 pm

  Oh what a wonderful post. Pure genius. How could anyone have even the slightest argument with it.
• srt June 20, 2011 at 8:18 am

  - Reyes’ trade value is never going to be any higher than it is right now. For a “rental” type trade, the Mets could actually get something of significant value for him if they play their cards right.

  The entire rest of your post is outlining your opinion of why Reyes isn’t worth it.
  If all your opinions are true, you’d better believe all other GMs know it as well. Therefore, you’re not going to get anything close to ‘significant value’ for 1/2 year rental of Reyes. According to your post, any GM looking for help down the stretch would take one look at his Sep numbers and deem him not worth ‘significant value’.

  Can’t have it both ways. Can’t try and sell he’s not worth it but assume other GMs are too dumb to have done their homework.
• alex68 June 20, 2011 at 9:21 am

  ou know, i saw this article and i took my time to actually replied, because this is just another “let me make an article to stir people up”. in no way i am going to say reyes hasn’t failed in maybe key spots or make excuses for him, but again, the writer of this article failed to point out is how reyes makes his favorite player wright better. from 2005-2008 with reyes in the lineup wright average 115 rbi per game (noted also had beltran and delgado taking all the hit for the mets choking or failing or not being “leaders”) in 2009 the man had 72 rbi, automatically his legion of fans used every excuse in the book to defend him from no protection, to he got hit in the head etc. the fact is the year before the man had reyes had a good year and while hitting .243 with RISP the man had 124 rbi’s!! that’s almost unheard of, but the truth is the mets will score many runs with reyes leading off with hit and SB, sac bunt him to third and wright would hit a ground out and the game was 1-0 with wright gettin an rbi, for those saber heads, the man put up good numbers in 2007-2008.. truee, but if you really watch the games you saw it was HIM who failed the mets, we all remember the “he made a great pitch” moment after he struck out with man on 3rd on the 9th with no out with a pitch at least 6 feet off the plate. the man was good with a good hitters in front of him, once the front office (fans mostly) gave this guy the “leader” stamp he’s done nothing but make excuses and choke in big spots. he’s a good #5 hitter, away from pressure, and since he saw fans making all excuses for him he thought hey, i can get away with this, well, no, in my opinion you can get plenty 100 rbi’s guys with reyes in the lineup, reyes makes everybody better around him, obviously wright doesn’t. so, out of 7 years if we get 4 or 5 out of any player is a good deal, no player other than pujols or arod have 7 or 8 straight good seasons, reyes has had 6 good season imo so far, so has wright, but the writer wanna point out how reyes is having a season like this because he wants to get paid is crazy, is a shame he says reyes is his “fav” player, his vendetta towards him and love for mr unclutch proves other wise, wright has won gold gloves (undeserve), never won mvp, in unclutch as hell and never, i repeat NEVER has carried the team by himself as reyes has with nobody around him, fans wanna make all kinds of excuses for him, but look at beltran, the season he’s having, with daniel murphy behind him!!!! are you serious!!?? how come there’s no article saying how valuable is beltran? no, he’s not well liked or a face, or knows english like wright to be loved, if w had a beltran at 3rd Base instead of mr unclutch, i am sure the mets season would’ve been different. i keep reyes 100000x over that choker to his right, is articles like this that has made me vomit over how well liked and defended #5 is, why not enjoy reyes for what he’s doing on the field to help us whether the storm until helps arrives? is not your money, hell i am sure you don’t even go to the games!!
  why worried about 7 years FROM now, when as long as this man is on the field this team has a chance. ask managers if they plan for wright when facing the mets? no, keep reyes off base!!!!
  is a shame articles like this get posted, if i was an editor in MMO, i would’ve thrown this garbage to well.. the garbage!!!
  • LL June 20, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Umm the author said he doesn’t want to keep Wright either, so I don’t know where Wright is being defended all that much.

    Reyes has been a very good player over the years and he’s having a great year. But the whole “carrying the team” stuff is way overblown. Nobody, except maybe Pujols, really carries a team. Despite playing like one of the best, if not, the best player in the league thus far this year…where exactly is Reyes “carrying” the Mets to? A couple games below .500??? This while the pitching staff has been absolutely dominant over the past month or so. And yet they have not been able to get above .500. Even in 2009 when they had the incredible stretch of injuries they were still above .500 at this time and hovered around .500 into August. And Wright that year as much as he got killed each and every day for not hitting HRs, was hitting about .350 at this point that year..despite the injuries to the others, yet b/c its Wright it wasn’t good enough. Wright’s “off years” were still good ones that would be considered great years if anybody else on the team was doing it. The notion that he’s been terrible isn’t true. And really I do agree about Beltran, that he gets way more hate than he deserves…probably the most underappreciated Met ever, but his “great” year this year really isn’t all that drastically different than Wright’s year last yr that Wright was getting killed for.

    And I love Reyes I think 100% he should be brought back. But if you are going to play the whole “clutch” game to judge a guy, you can’t kill Wright and give Reyes a pass. Yeah Wright stranded Murphy, but Reyes was downright terrible both Sept 2007 and 2008 for the whole month he was virtually invisible both times. Now I don’t really blame Jose for the collapses, the Mets offense as a whole those months, especially 2007, was still very good. The Carloses, Wright, and Alou(in 2007) performed very well so the Mets offense as whole performed well, Sept 2007 was one of their best offensive months on the whole year…they scored almost 6 runs a game. they lost b/c of the pitching not b/c of the offense. But if “clutch” is truly your criteria for everything you need to take the blinders off.

    Now I am not going to judge anything and everything off of a “clutch” thing. I like Reyes b/c he’s mostly been very good over the course of his career, and I think judging the whole is more important that picking at some situational spots. He’s had some meh years, but he’s among the best SS (and the best thus far this yr) in the game. So I am keeping Reyes for those reasons. But again if “being unclutch” is a reason to dump a guy you can’t put the hate on Wright and blindly ignore Reyes’ history in those spots.
• alex68 June 20, 2011 at 10:15 am

  jessePolice:

  here’s something for you to learn about baseball:

  http://mets360.com/?p=7034&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mets360%2Ffeed+%28Mets360+Feed%29
  • NYMetsfan June 20, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Where is anyone denying how good Reyes has been this year?
    • alex68 June 20, 2011 at 11:24 am

      just a little something for the non believers.. seems you are in that group.. you ppl think is only been this year. this man IS the man, is not his fault the #3 hitter they had behind him is a big time choke/excuse maker
      • NYMetsfan June 20, 2011 at 11:38 am

        Again, you are making things up with your selective reading. Choke this with your Wright comments, as a Mets fan how can you make up such lies and still consider yourself a fan of the team.

        Why does one player have a good year have to come at the expense of another.

        Your constant choke comments are not only incorrect, but you continue to sound like a jerk.

        Hate the guy – fine – but stop with the lies.
        • alex68 June 20, 2011 at 11:54 am

          .243 with RISP in 2008, choke in the biggest spot of the year (or at least the one most fans remember game against cubs)
          Excuse: said pitcher made a great 3-2 pitch..
          fact: ball 6 feet of the plate
          2009: hit 10 hr with 72 rbi
          Excuse: no protection on the lineup
          Fact: see beltran 2011 or reyes…
          2010: 260 With RISP, 160 K’s
          Excuse: he still having effect for the hit by ptch from cain
          Fact: showing signs of not being able to handle the pressure, proclaim the leader of the team and automatically forgot how to hit with 2 strikes, and with game on line, every fan worst nightmare.
          2011: 226 6 18 43k’s in 140 at bats
          Excuse: he was hurt, he wasn’t able to get comfortable at the plate
          Fact: hit 250 with 5 hr and a pultry 150 with men on base.. STOP WITH THE EXCUSES.. THAT’S THE FACTS!!!!!!!
          • duh June 20, 2011 at 12:14 pm

            I don’t want to do this, b/c I think overall Jose is great but if you really want to play this game…

            Jose Reyes
            Sept 2007: .205/.279/.333/.612 (Excuses: He was tired b/c he stole bases, Willie was mean to him)
            Sept 2008: .243 .314 .402 .715 (Excuses: bad luck)

            Career bases loaded: .266 .291 .457 .749 (Excuses: he just gets too excited)
            Career high leverage: .264 .332 .374 .706 (Excuses: he just gets too excited)

            Jose Reyes
            2009: .279 .355 .395 .750 (Excuses: well more like people pretending that was a great start to the year; Fact: he wasn’t that good though a small sample)
            2010: .282 .321 .428 .749 (Excuses: he was hurt the year before)

            Point is all players have ups and downs. And Jose has had many himself when the team need him in “big spots”. STOP WITH THE EXCUSES THATS THE FACTS!
            • alex68 June 20, 2011 at 12:18 pm

              jose is not consider a godsend as david is.. jose reyes is a leadoff hitter, he’s not a run producer, his job is to produce runs by getting on base and he does that, david’s job is to bring him in, and he fails to do that!!!
              • duh June 20, 2011 at 12:40 pm

                Every hitters job is to drive in runs and score runs, regardless of where he hits in the lineup. And it certainly seems like you are acting like Reyes is a godsend and Wright is crap. Wright’s gotten a ton of flak for what are some pretty good years.

                And your talk about “getting on base” just illustrates some of my point. Look at those OBP numbers during some of those “big spots”. .279 in Sept 2007 is as bad as it gets. Barely over .300 in Sept 2008, barely over .300 last season. Very mediocre in high leverage situations. If Jose’s job is to “get on base” clearly he was not doing his job very well at all during those situations above.

                Personally I see no reason the Mets have to get rid of either Reyes or Wright. I don’t see the need for them to start over. Both guys are two of the best players the Mets have had and still young and I hate that fans try to pit one against the other which is why I was hesistant to make that post which might be perceived as a knock on Jose. I like Jose and want him here for a long time.

                If the Mets have to choose one for whatever reason (but I really don’t think it should ever come to that) and you want to make the argument that Reyes is a better guy to keep b/c he plays a more premium position or you want to say that you think his 2011 is a sign of things to come, while Wright has slipped a bit, thats certainly reasonable. But referencing anything pre-2011 or trying to use history of clutch as an argument FOR Reyes and anti-Wright is just a terrible argument that is not really supported by facts.
                • alex68 June 20, 2011 at 12:43 pm

                  ok, fair enough and respect your opinion.. but if you watch the games, you’d understand what i am referring to exactly..
                  • NYMetsfan June 20, 2011 at 1:04 pm

                    It’s obvious you don’t watch the games. Listen, the only one talking that Wright is on a pedestal are you haters. True Mets fans treat him like the other 24 players on the team, is as important is no more important.

                    You are the biggest hippocrate ever. You are doing, saying things about Wright, that you are calling others out about Reyes. Why is that so hard to understand.

                    I watch every game, have been for 40 years, so don’t think YOU are teaching me anything. They ALL have their flaws, but stop making up crap this just isn’t true.

                    Name me ONE player that drives in runs 100% of the time…….I’ll wait……

                    Wright certainly has not, nor has Reyes done everything correct either.
                  • duh June 20, 2011 at 1:09 pm

                    I’ve watched the games. Jose is certainly a dymnamic player, but I remember many a pop up, many bad ABs where he’s chased pitches out of the zone over the years. he hasn’t been perfect. In the small sample that is this year he’s been much better, but he too has failed many a times over the years. You can’t selectively ignore those facts.

                    And I think this year also proves that its about more than just one player. Great as Jose has been the Mets have still been a mediocre at best team. Last yr at this time they were about 10 games over .500, this year they can’t seem to stay or get to .500 or above.
• The Coop June 20, 2011 at 10:20 am

  I like your stuff Jessep because I think you bring a realistic, non-alarmist POV to the table. But I think you’re dead wrong on this analysis (lol – just thinking critically). Let’s go through the bullet points, shall we?

  ~ Rickey Henderson > Jose Reyes…for now. As T-agee and I like to discuss ad nauseum here, it’s that the Mets have done a traditionally craptastic job of seasoning and preparing their prospects…then rush them because their Plan Z’s don’t work out. My philosophy is that Reyes came up at 19 with a world of expectations. You can’t do that to a young dude…

  ~ furthermore, we see what’s happening with F-Mart now, with rushing him to be ML ready. He kept getting injured. Let’s be fair here: prior to 2009, we were incredibly lucky with Reyes. His whole “injury prone” or “injury history” is overblown, IMO. He was hurt ONCE his entire hey-day with the mets, in 2009. 2010, we have no idea if he was just overly cautious (think about the “unnamed sources in the Mets locker room who believe Reyes is being ‘babied’”) and he might have been gunshy.

  ~ I wrote a piece the other day about how I feel like, finally, a guy who isn’t a player’s manager is actually TELLING Reyes to be himself. Remember, w/ Willie and Jerry, they kept telling Jose to calm down his antics, getting all “Oh Bluto we’re afraid to go with you, we might get in TROUBLE” with him. Do I think contract status is a motivator now? Abso-friggin-lutely. But he’s also playing to his potential at 28. You know why? Because he’s 20-friggin-8! Jimmy Rollins won the MVP when he was 28 – it was also his peak. And Reyes IS better and more talented than Rollins could wish to be. Which leads me to…

  ~ I think 7 years is crazy, so we agree there. But Reyes will be looking for security. Someone WILL offer 7 years for Reyes. It may be the mets, it may not be. I’m not ready to jump off a cliff yet about possibilities like this, but this is a keen observation on your part – in agreement there.

  ~ As far as failures of the “core,” in the immortal words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious. People blame Beltran for 2006, when in reality he was a huge reason we were in the playoffs…then blaming Reyes for batting .206 when Carlos Delgado – the “Big Bat” in the lineup – decided not to play for Willie Randolph. When Pedro Martinez couldn’t come through for the team when they needed him most. When Tom Glavine and John Maine couldn’t win a game to save their lives (or Oliver perez, for that matter). Jose Reyes was also 25 years old and young and immature. I believe, and call me crazy, he’s maturing and being himself now.

  ~ I’m all for breaking up the core, but to me that’s cutting ties with Carlos Beltran (sigh, I really love him), and building AROUND Jose Reyes. Jose Reyes may not be “The Franchise” Tom Seaver, but he’s certainly one of the best we’ve developed thus far.
• lseamans88 June 20, 2011 at 10:36 am

  “We’re talking about fixing a broken franchise, and you don’t fix a broken franchise by making the same mistakes that got us here.”

  Great line. In fact, substitute almost any other noun for “franchise” and you have a truism. You don’t fix busted stuff by doing the same stuff over and over!
  • metsaddict77 June 20, 2011 at 11:42 am

    letting him go or trading him for nothing seems like a bonehead move we usually make, how is that changing the culture?
• METS62FAN June 21, 2011 at 11:54 am

  Duh, this comment was unrepliable; but deserb=ving of attrention IMO; u stated…
  “duh says:
  June 20, 2011 at 1:09 pm
  I’ve watched the games. Jose is certainly a dymnamic player, but I remember many a pop up, many bad ABs where he’s chased pitches out of the zone over the years. he hasn’t been perfect. In the small sample that is this year he’s been much better, but he too has failed many a times over the years. You can’t selectively ignore those facts.

  And I think this year also proves that its about more than just one player. Great as Jose has been the Mets have still been a mediocre at best team. Last yr at this time they were about 10 games over .500, this year they can’t seem to stay or get to .500 or above.”

  I MUSTY POINT OUT TO U THAT IT’S THE NATURE OF THE GAME TO ENCOUNTER MORE FAILED ABs THAN SUCCESSFUL ONES. HELL, THE BEST HITTER THE GAME HAS EVER SEEN IN THIS MODERN AGE FAILED 6 TIMES OUT OF TEN TRIES & FOR DOING SO HAS “EARNED” THE IDOLOTRY OF EVERY TRUE BASEBALL ENTHUSIAST. PERHAPS THE FRISTRATING FIRST SWING POPUPS OF THE PAST IS LESS EVIDENT DU\E TO THE INFLUENCE OF HUDGENS’ TINKERING INSTEAD OF HOJO ACCEPTANCE OF WHAT WAS.
  PERHAPS THE RELATIVITY TO .500 HAS BEEN DETERED BECAUSE BELTRAN’S PRESENCE ALONE IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR WRIGHT & DAVIS. DOES ANYONE TRULY EXPECT A TEAM WHO HAS MURPHY @ CLEANUP IS A .500+ ACIEVER? I DON’T. RELATIVER TO THIS TEAM’S OVERALL RESULTS IS IT’S REMARKABLE COMPETITIVENESS & ABILITY TO MAINTAIN A PROXIMITY TO ATLANTA WHILE IGNORING PHL DOMINANCE.
  ATLANTA IS OUR MOST IMMEDIATE CONCERN IN MY ESTIMATION, AND I BELIEVE THIS TEAM IS CERTAINLY CAPABLE OF SLIPPING BY THEM BEFORE THE SEASON ENDS.CONTIONGENT UPON RETAINING REYES ALL CAMPAIGN.
  BEFORE ANTYONE SIMPLY DISCARDS JOSE’S REMARKABLE STATS AS ONE OF TRHIOSE REDICULOUS CONTRACT PUSH YEARS IT’S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT MOST OF THESE ABERRATIONAL CONTRASCT YR PUSHES FROM MOST PLAYERS IS JUST THAT. EXPERTS ARE TYPICALLY AMAZED @ THE PRODUCTION AS NO ONE EVER ANTICIPATED IT FROM THEM LIKE BELTRAN’S ’04 PLAYOFF SERIES.
  HOWEVER, IT’S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE MOST CRITICAL DISCOUNTERS OF REYES’ CAREER HAVE ALWAYS FOCUSED ON HOW FAR HIS ACTUALS WERE BELOW HIS ANTICIPATEDS. JOSE WAS OVERLY CRITICIZED FOR HIS UNFULFILLED POTENTIAL. NO ONE EVER CONSIDERED HIS YOUTH RELATIVE TO HIS “FAILURES”. I PUT FORTH THE HYPOTHESIS THAT THIS SEASON’S OUTSTANDINF PRODUCTION IS UNRELATED TO HIS CONTRACTUAL CIRCUMSTANCE & IS MUCH MORE RELATED TO THE CONFLUENCE OF HIS “HITTING HIS PRIME” WITH A MANAGER SUPPORTIVE OF HIS ENERGY WITH A HITTING INSTRUCTOR WHO FINALLY “GETS HIM” ALL OF THESE FACTORS FINALLY COINCIDING TO DELIVER TYHAT MOST SOUGHT AFTER GOAL IN FLUSHING, A REYES’ ACTUAL=POTENTIAL SEASON! WITH 66% OF HIS PRIME STILL TO COME, IT’S TANTAMOUNT TO A CAPITAL OFFENSE IN STUPIDITY TO ALLOW HIS DEPARTURE NOW!
  • t agee June 21, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    I saw Willie Mays strikeout a few times. Can’t remember too much else. Wonder how he stayed in the Majors so long.