21
2011
Collins Thinks Trading Beltran Sends Wrong Message
An article by 
A week ago I wondered about the possibilty of not trading Carlos Beltran, but instead keeping him and trying to work out a 2-year deal. You can read that below.
I wanted to update this post with a comment Terry Collins made when asked about his thoughts on trading Beltran.
“You can’t lose the energy, you can’t lose the positive, because the players will read into it,” Terry Collins said. “And the minute they think, ‘Oh gosh, our guys aren’t here, the manager has given up,’ they’ll sense it, and then they’ll feel that we won’t be any good until everybody comes back. That’s not the way you can run this.”
What if Wright and Davis are still not back to pick up the slack as Newsday’s David Lennon pointed out?
How will that be percieved by the fans and the players?
Original Post 6/13
Last week, Jon Heyman was told the Mets would be willing to eat some of Carlos Beltran’s $18.5 million dollar salary if they can get good prospects.
That’s been a given ever since the season started so I don’t really understand why that should be news to anyone at this point. But being he brought it up, let’s toss it around a little bit because quite honestly, I’m not so sure we should just dump Beltran somewhere and move on from him yet.
First let’s get put aside that $18.5 million dollar figure because by the time the trade deadline comes, Beltran would have already been paid 60% so actually we’re talking about roughly $8 million that will still be owed to him.
As we’ve mentioned here before, teams cannot offer Beltran arbitration at the end of the season because of a stipulation in his contract. That means no compensation for next June’s draft assuming compensation isn’t ditched with the new collective bargaining agreement anyway.
So basically, Beltran is a pure two-month rental for any team that want/s him, and at the end of the year he’s gone and the new team gets zilch. I don’t care how much money the Mets eat, why would any team in their right mind give up good prospects for eight weeks of Beltran even if they really needed his bat?
It sounds like an extreme case of wishful thinking by the Mets if you ask me. If Beltran gets traded, your looking at a possible mid-level prospect or a marginal major leaguer who is still under team control and that’s about it. It’s still something, and something is always better than nothing. But why not consider the alternative… Keeping Carlos Beltran?
He is by far the most productive outfielder the Mets have and is currently on target to hit 29 home runs and drive in 100 runs while batting .280 and being the only real presence in the Mets lineup.
Who do we have that will replace Carlos Beltran in our system?
The quick and most accurate answer is – absolutely nobody.
Can you imagine this team with Jason Bay protecting David Wright instead of Carlos Beltran? Who can’t wait for that disaster to play out?
Plus, for a team that already struggles to hit right-handed pitching can you even imagine taking Beltran’s (.288/.385/.450) bat out of the line-up at this stage of the game?
For all the knocks about how soft Carlos Beltran is, the reality of the situation is that he’s played more games this season (63) than any other Met on the roster including Jose Reyes.
Has anybody given any consideration to seeing whether Carlos Beltran would be willing to sign a two-year incentive laden deal or extension to stay with the Mets and remain our number three hitter and everyday right fielder? Or is it already a done deal that, Jason Bay, Lucas Duda and Angel Pagan will be the 2012 Mets Opening Day outfield?
Think about that for a second… Try writing out a line-up card with those names in it, and leave off Carlos Beltran and possibly Jose Reyes too… Do you like what you see? Mets all the way in 2012?
At 34-years old, Beltran won’t get more than a two-year deal anyway, so if we can lock him in with a base salary of $7-8 million a year, how can you beat that?
We keep hearing so much about how this new front office strategy is all about finding and getting value and I don’t know of too many veteran impact players who can give you what Beltran offers for less than $8 million annually.
I was reading something the other day that said when Lucas Duda was re-called, Carlos Beltran took him out for a bite to eat and spent the day with him. He told Duda to simply relax and not put any additional pressure on himself because there are plenty of great players on the team. He told him to just play his game and do what he had been doing in Buffalo. Later that day when Duda came around to score on a base hit, he stepped into the dugout and you could see him and Beltran hugging and sharing a smile and a laugh.
Beltran has also worked with and spent time with Daniel Murphy and Ike Davis in April, and even Justin Turner commented on how Beltran made him feel like part of the team after a 2-hit performance in a 6-4 win in Houston. “I’m excited to be here”, Turner said. “I worked hard to get back and now I’m on the field with Carlos Beltran. I’m still letting it all sink in.” That’s respect.
By re-signing Beltran you accomplish three things…
1. You lowered your payroll by $10 million dollars annually. Even if you keep Beltran at $8 million dollars a season, you’ve substantially increased your wiggle room and don’t have to worry about signing another player for right field.
2. You can still ease Lucas Duda, Fernando Martinez and possibly Kirk Nieuwenhuis into the outfield configuration without having to declare one as an everyday player until they are absolutely ready. We don’t really need anymore Daniel Murphy is the everyday left fielder situations, do we?
3. Who becomes the veteran presence on this team if Beltran leaves? David Wright? <cough, cough> Jason Bay? <cough, cough, cough>
The more I think about this, the stronger I feel about it. I’d rather have Beltran here for one or two more years than trading him for the next Chris Carter. Sorry… Been there, done that.
Beltran is one of the best position players ever to don a Mets uniform and certainly the best center fielder we’ve ever had. Heck, he’s the only Mets player I know that actually talks to his bats. The NY Times calls him the Bat Whisperer.
Whenever he receives a new box of bats, Carlos Beltran takes each bat out, holds it to his ear and raps it, gently but convincingly, with the base of his hand, his head cocked, one eye shut, concentrating like a virtuoso tuning his violin.
Hey, all I’m saying is to pick up the phone and at least check it out. Imagine trading Beltran for a bag of balls, and then seeing him sign a 2-year $15 million dollar deal with the Yankees or Phillies in the offseason. Just the thought of that gives me chills.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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joe,
nice piece, i do agree with what you are saying, but you forget he’s a boras client, he’ll test free agency no matter what, plus i think the relationship with beltran and the mets F/o has been shaky at best, plus, remember the schmuck’s comment about him, i think he wants to just go to a place where he’ll get paid, play baseball and relax, not where he’ll be scrutinize for every little thing he does, he’s a great leader and i love him more than any other met player not named reyes, but the truth is, it’ll be hard for the mets to sign him, is a shame, but i see one of the 2 mets (beltran, reyes) being either a yankee or a philly next year..
and regarding of david wright being the leader of the team… good luck with that mets fans. this guy put up his best #’s hiding behind beltran and delgado, as our #5 hitter, once the “leadership” role was on him, well.. we all know how that’s been
Agree, as a Boras client he will go to free agency. Someone (Yanks?) will pay him $15 million plus to play RF and DH. We will miss him when he is gone.
Very fair point Joe.
Depends if Carlos even wants to stay here though. The Organization (owners) have 3 different times gone out of their way to embarrass him. The Surgery, Walter Reed and Fred’s recent comments and who knows what else.
We have such a long history of not treating our best players with the respect that they are due. Carlos was misdiagnosed, never said a word, played hurt, never said a word, had a teammate not remove the bat from home plate on a close play he got called out and criticized for, never said a word, told the GM he was going in for surgery and that the Met Medical Staff concurred, he merely defended himself.
The Walter Reed thing occurred when Carlos was himself attending to charitable activities that he has put HUGE money into.
The guy is the lowest maintenance elite superstar and pro’s pro of any player who has ever been a Met and by far the best all around player we have ever had and all he catches is flack from ownership.
I agree with you that two more years would be great and the repercussions of losing him in our lineup are pretty severe but I just don’t see it as even a remote possibility.
One lesson learned about this guarantee to not offer arb to FA’s though is this. A type B FA doesn’t hamper anyone’s market value since the signing team doesn’t have to give up anything so the opportunity to offer arb if a player becomes a type B should always be retained. Also, even if we could offer arb we couldn’t take the chance because 15 – 21 M would be where he would fit in and considering the knees would be a very risky move regardless of how great he’s played this year.
It’s such a shame that a fairly large percentage of Met Fans think of just one AB when discussing Beltran. We’ve really been blessed to be able to see him everyday (for the most part) for seven years.
Keeping Carlos Beltran after all is not the worst idea around. As long as the Mets keep playing well and hang onto the Wild Card race maybe it’s possible to hold onto him as long as this team proves that it’s about winning now and winning next year. I don’t think Beltran would want to stay if the front office has it in it’s mind that we must “rebuild”. Maybe we don’t have to “rebuild” like everything thinks, maybe there is no 3 or 4 year plan to become contenders again because maybe we are contenders NOW. It’s still early and we’ll know more in a few more weeks but maybe this is a team that contend now and be buyers instead of sellers come July 31. If the team collapses in the next couple weeks than it’s a moot point. But maybe they won’t collapse, just maybe they’ll get BETTER.
As long as the focus is on winning and winning now with what you have you can go scout and sign your draft picks and do all of those things WHILE maintaining a team that can contend for the wild card and maybe keep Beltran as well because Beltran is going to want to go to a contender and maybe that contender is the Mets.
HAHAHA! You think it is a good idea; what could be better proof that it is utterly ridiculous.
Too much.
Thanks for the humor you provide to countless people you don’t even know of.
Beltran hasn’t run hard once this year because he cannot and was hurt a significant part of the last two years.
Let’s re-sign him for two years!
HAHAHA!
Thanks pal.
Kingman, what drugs do you take? Tell us what your solution is…
I can certainly see the value in the thought process; however two nagging names in the back of my mind warn me as if my name were Will Roberson, those dire names are ; SCOTT BORAS & MOISES ALOU multi[plied by 8, despite his stability this yr so far, surely Carlos is only one misstep on a sprinklerhead from Alou’s reliability @ 8 times the cost by your projection @ $8M.
****CAUTION, WILL ROBERSON****
Am I the only one bothered by this wringing of the NYM payroll to mere drips while Fred still craves owning a Soccer Team?
As it goes presently, a petitioning of MLB for a franchise renaming to “NY DEBTS” can not be too far over te horizon lol unless Frede’s alreadty reserved the name for this new dream enterprise.
For what’s it’s worth, Beltran’s wife loves NYC and he has business interests in the city (He owns Sofritos restaurant on 57th off 1st ave). I doubt he would want to leave unless it’s crosstown to the Yankees.
i’m sure if he signs in LA his business will be ok
LA ain’t Puero Rican like NY. It is a practical consideration.
New York is the second largest P.R. city after San Juan.
my wife is puerto rican. i know.. but trust me, money talks, most likely this will be his final contract
I hope you had some PERNIL and rice with peas yesterday.
hajahajahaja.. no man, quiet frankly, she’s a lil sick so no cooking for me, so i went to my friend’s house, watch the mets game and had a few beers..
Just what I made. I have gone to Sofritos and it’s good. Hope we win tonite. Enjoy.
way a minute.. are you a girl 22???
No, But I can cook. My wife gets home close to 8PM from work. I’m not waiting to eat that late and I cook better.
jahajahajahajaha.. got you bro.. let’s go mets!!!!!!
buffal wings from pizza hut!!! lol
He’s a partial owner. I hear it’s very good, I do plan on going with one of my PR co-workers soon.
I don’t think Beltran has a problem at all with this front office. It was the old regime that called him out on the surgery. And thus regime eased him into RF with zero problem. The hurdles are 1) can the Mets stay in the races to legitimize keeping him and 2) Scott ‘how can I rape the game of baseball today?’ Boras
I’d love to see Carlos Beltran stay here, and if the big option is the Yankees, I’m sure Carlos would rather play for the friendly and charming Terry Collins rather than Joe Girardi, who has very little charm at all. Remember, everyone – Terry Collins has made the Mets into a team and that is a very special trick.
Hmmmm. Why am I not surprised a topic like this came up the night after Game 6 of the NBA Finals? Kind of a funny coincidence when you think about it. 5 years ago, Dirk Nowitzki was 2 wins away from a World Championship and choked. Beltran was perhaps one swing and one win away from the World Series and well…we know what happened. Of course, Dirk got his redemption and I’d love Beltran to get his. Personally, I’d love to see Beltran back for another year or two. Why would you trade one of, if not, the most consistent bat in your lineup? Especially when your team is making a run for the Wild Card? Now, if you wanna move anyone at the deadline in your outfield, it’s Pagan (I’d say Bay, but good luck moving him). Try to inquire about Matt Kemp. He’s becoming the monster this year I knew he would become (Before anyone gets the idea in their heads, NO, I’m not saying Pagan for Kemp).
dirk nowitzky is a hall of famer. and he’s got the help of an owner that actually cares
Again, you have this hang up with Angel Pagan,
He’s not going anywhere and if he’s moved who’s going to play CF? And despite the occasional base running gaff he’s playing well, he’s hitting and getting his average up, he hustles. What is your problem with Pagan?
Unless there’s an option for CF who can help us win who’s gonna play CF if Pagan is not here?
carlos beltran??
Uhhhh, hello? Did I just not mention MATT KEMP? Kemp can hit, hit for power, and he’s fast for his size (which is why he’s known as “The Bison”). His defense has fallen off a bit since winning the Gold Glove a few years ago, but he’ll get it together again with Beltran mentoring him. He’s more of a legit #5 hitter than Pagan and would bring us more power to the order. For the record, it’s not because I have an issue with Pagan, I just learned to be thin skinned. I don’t fall in love with someone on the team because he’s hot at the moment like others here. Pagan is a guy you deal away while his value’s high. Bottom line.
hitman, i like you, but unless the mets offer wright AND pagan, the dodgers are not trading matt kemp to the mets
First of all Pagan is not just “hot at the moment” and you always refer to “others’ in all your posts. Who are these “others’” all the time?
Pagan hit .306 in over a half year in 2009, hit .290 last year in full season and has become a starting player whether you like him or not. He is not a flash in the pan anymore, it’s been years since he has been.
Pagan is now a starting player and if not for the Mets he will be a starter somewhere else.
And secondly, is Matt Kemp available? Have the Dodgers indicated he’s available? Or is this just a random fan proposal
Wow, ONE full season. Hey, Mike Pelfrey’s doing good too. Let’s lock him up!
Yes, I have heard rumblings about Kemp being available (as well as Andre Ethier) but recently, those talks have stopped. I wouldn’t be mentioning Kemp if I haven’t heard about him being available. However, I will not be surprised if Kemp is talked about over the next month. Dodgers aren’t going anywhere in the NL West.
*coughBillingsleycough*
Billingsley? Hmmmmm. I believe he’s a guy that would thrive once he leaves LA. He’s better than what his numbers unfortunately show right now. A trade would be beneficial for him. He has a cheap yet affordable contract (3 yrs, $35 million through 2014 plus an option).
He’s pitching exactly the same as he has his whole career as far as K/9, BB/9, and HR/9, and he’s outperforming his career FIP, xFIP and tERA. His ERA is half a run higher because his LD% and his BABIP is a little high.
Like you said, his contract is very affordable, the Dodgers might have to sell real soon. I can’t think of one minor leaguer I wouldn’t include in a deal for Kemp and Billingsley.
bayonne,
you’re my boy but i agree with hitman, matter of fact we should’ve sold high on him last year and trade him for pitching in my opinion
100% right.
Love Beltran, and would enjoy seeing him finish as a Met if he could stay healthy…however that is a huge ‘if.’ I would be all for keeping Beltran if he would be willing to take a 2 year deal for 5 million or less per year…considering his time spent on the DL…he got a paid a lot of money to not play…so maybe he would be willing to “give back” to the Mets, in a matter of speaking.
As for your statement, “Can you imagine this team with Jason Bay protecting David Wright instead of Carlos Beltran? Who can’t wait for that disaster to play out?” Um, Beltran was hitting behind Wright before he got hurt this year…unfortunately, David Wright has become the disaster.
unfortunately, David Wright has become the disaster.”
matt, alex68 approves this message!!
No, Wright has had a bad year. Big difference.
sooner or later the pressure was gonna make him become this.. didn’t think it was gonna be this quickly
Or maybe, he’s just having a rough start, like a lot of guys did. We calling Tulo a disaster now?
Or Maybe we need to come to the realization that he has not been an elite-caliber player since 2008. Look at his numbers…the only number that is consistently rising is his number of K’s.
Awesome, let’s put some guys in the line up who can hit with him so he can shorten his swing and drive the ball more.
The guys in the lineup were hitting while he was IN the lineup…Davis, Beltran, Turner, Murphy, Reyes were all hitting…Wright was not.
Lets forget the fact that he played with a fractured back, I’m sure that had NOTHING to do with his bad start, and since he’s the first guy EVER in the MLB to get off to a bad start I say lets definitely consider him done and get rid of him now – maybe get a bag of balls in return.
Before the injury .239 BA/20 K’s in 17 games…after injury .216 BA/23 K’s in 22 games. You’re right…huge difference. I assume this is coming from the token, “David Wright does no wrong” Mets fan.
You know what that say about assuming…….
Just because someone defends a guy that has been the ONLY constant for the last 6 years doesn’t mean he does no wrong.
The hate club for this guy, is so ridiculous it borders on insanity.
He got off to a bad start yea – then got hurt, PUT HIM OUT TO PASTURE.
Is he the only guy in the history of the game to get off to a bad start?
NO, but lets kill Wright because too many of you “MEN” are afraid to like the guy because you’re afraid they will take your man card away.
You’re hate club is WORSE then the DO NOW WRONG club – which you all ASSUME exists when someone defends the guy – same with the Alderson kool aid comments.
Mets fans – not the brightest crayons in the box.
Don’t get me wrong…I like David Wright…and I would love to see him become what he was prior to the 2009 season…unfortunately, 2009, 2010, and 2011 have been failures for David Wright. 2009 he had no power and became a high strikeout guy. 2010 he regained his power but his average dropped 20 points and his strikeouts were over 160. In 2011, well, i don’t really need to describe his 2011 season thus far to know he was failing at the plate. It’s time to come to grips with the fact that unless he takes this time off to correct his head and his approach at the plate, this guy is finished as an impact player…sure he will hit the occasional HR, but is that all we want or should expect from Wright?
3 year slide in the majority of Wright’s numbers. And, I know, the response is 29 HR and 100+ RBIs in 2010…however, his average was down 20 from his career average, strikeouts were up 20, doubles down, OBP down, etc. Wright is on an obvious decline. David Wright getting injured could be the best thing for him right now…get his head right, work on some things and maybe (hopefully) turn it around, if not, this dude is done as a near-elite player.
Looks like Duda is stuck on bench again.
Did Greg Pomes approve this blog?
Boras would never agree to 8 mil a year or an incentive-laden deal.
Beltran cannot run hard anymore and spent much of the last two years on the DL. Maybe he’s not soft, but he avoids contact at 2B like Mo Vaughn avoids vegetables that aren’t fried.
We are still years away from recovering from Minaya’s habit of signing players past their prime to multi-year deals.
Other than that, great idea!
LOL!
This.
I’d rather let a player go one year too early rather than hold onto him one year too long.
The one thing that makes this very unlikely, in my opinion, is the position of Designated Hitter. An AL team will value him higher than an NL team solely because they know if his knees start to break down any more than they have, they can still keep his bat in the lineup without making any concessions on defense.
He’s one of my very favorite players, and I absolutely hope they do at least offer him a 2 year incentive-laden deal, but I can’t imagine them staying in the hunt once the Skankees open their wallets looking to replace Posada at DH.
Also, I think if we’re seriously in contention at the trade deadline, getting “nothing” once Beltran leaves might be worth it to have a shot at a relatively successful year (read: over .500, in the playoff race to the very end of the season, or shoot, even a Wild Card berth).
I think as a fan base, most of us desperately want some relief, and a modicum of success this season would help going forward, and the renewal of interest in the Mets (read: ticket sales) might be enough of a “plus” to make keeping him all season worth it.
Why would Beltran want to stay? This team will probably be reshaped this off season and probably won’t make the playoffs next year. If I am Beltran I would bolt. And I would say he will get $12M a year from someone, maybe Oakland, Seattle or the Angels or something.
I love you Joe D.
I have never held that AB against Beltran. He has been a good player here. But I am amazed that he has not hit the DL this year with that knee. I still believe it is a matter of time and I just would not touch him as a FA. I would not invest in a guy his age with a bum knee. Sorry, but that is how I feel. He had some surgery last year, but at the time there was a lot written about the fact that the knee would need more surgery down the line. I thank him for his services. I might let him walk if there was compensation, but there is not. I might keep Reyes through season’s end if the team got REAL hot, but I get anything I can for Beltran. Good business.