Comments on: Alderson, Its Time To Retire #8

By: Metsie

Metsie — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 13:12:48 +0000

I was agreeing with you!

By: Clayton Collier

Clayton Collier — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 12:38:35 +0000

Thank you! Exactly. Retiring someones number isnt all about stats. It does play a major factor, but the intangables that you listed should move him over the hump.

Not to mention, he was the only 86 Met that made the Hall.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 04:38:14 +0000

“…his number should be retired by the Mets based on his CAREER performance…”

That’s like an oxymoron. He already has an honor for his career. The Hall of Fame. He was not a Hall of Fame Met. He was a .249/.319/.412 hitter and averaged 18 home runs and 75 RBI as a Met. If THOSE were his career numbers, he never would have made the HOF and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

He was a very good defensive player, he didn’t have a very good postseason career with the Mets (nice WS, terrible LCS in ’86 and ’88) and played more than half of his career with the Mets as a below-average player.

You can’t retire his number, he just simply doesn’t deserve it.

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 04:16:03 +0000

How Silly! Wait 100 years to retire a number! The Mets are a stupid organization which is incapable of honoring its players and even understanding what the hell it’s own tradition is! What Met is going to play his entire career in a Mets uniform and earn the HOF? Reyes is going to get traded, so forget him. Beltran already had his career elsewhere. It will be amazing if Wright is on this team 2 yrs from now. Name a full career Met who is going into the HOF. There simply won’t be any. I repeat, How Silly!

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 04:02:27 +0000

Clayton, I agree with you completely. It is overdue and it absolutely should be done now while he is still alive. Gary Carter has always been a superlative person and a role model while performing with leadership. He was one of the key players of the ’86 team, which should be represented with a player’s number retired. His HOF election cinches that even though his record in Montreal was more significant. The Mets should recognize him for his total career, his HOF membership, his leadership qualities and his performance as a member of the ’86 championship team. His 5 yr tenure on the team is irrelevant because it is overshadowed by all his other characteristics. The time to do it is now, not posthumously. The paucity of retired numbers by a franchise that has been in existence for 50 years is just another example of how the Mets slight their own tradition.

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 03:47:00 +0000

Just two questions for you. How many former Mets are in the Hall of Fame? Do you think perchance the Mets organization should recognize this accomplishment while the man is still alive?

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 03:44:23 +0000

I didn’t say he earned the HOF based solely on performance with the Mets. I did said his number should be retired by the Mets based on his CAREER performance which earned him the HOF and because he is one of only 2 former Mets who have been elected to the Hall. I think you need to return to grade school and learn how to read – DUDE!

By: NYMetsfan

NYMetsfan — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:57:00 +0000

Well, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I believe Tug McGraw, Jerry Kooseman and even Ed Kranpool should get their number on the wall long before Carter.

I also don’t believe that the numbers have to be HOFer’s but players that had long tenure and lasting effects on the team – hence the names I listed above.

PS – it doesn’t only appear that way to me, but to many

By: The Coop

The Coop — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:18:52 +0000

You’re missing my point entirely. My gripe about what’s the big deal is that the Mets won’t put it in circulation. it’s retired, for lack of a better term, just not on the wall. Trust me, I’m not as gung ho as you’d think but if they won’t circulate it because of a respect thing, then maybe they should retire it.

By: Metlomaniac

Metlomaniac — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:45:38 +0000

Piazza played 250 more games as a Met than a Dodger, hit 43 more HR’s, and nearly 100 more RBI. He played in a WS as a Met, and hit one of the more memorable HR’s in recent history (the shot to beat the Braves in the first game back after 9/11), AND has publically expressed his desire to go in the HOF as a Met.

Why anyone would doubt that he will go in as a Met mystifies me.

By: Drew

Drew — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:45:24 +0000

The team with which a player is entered into the HoF is selected by a 3rd party, not the player or the teams they played for or the fans (so I guess a 4th party?). The Hall of Fame is ONE honor for players showing how much they meant to the sport. Having a number retired by a team is THE honor for players showing how much they meant to an individual team.

Seaver being the “only FULL MET” in the HoF is nice, but irrelevant in a conversation about what a player means to a team and a franchise.

By: jessep

jessep — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:29:01 +0000

and lets be serious here.

Carter had TWO great seasons. You really want to lower the bar to just 1985 and 1986 to get your number retired?

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:28:54 +0000

They are saving the retirement for someone who makes the hall of fame AS a Met.

Right now Seaver is the only one and all the others are in as either No Team or a Dual Logo hat on their busts.

Seaver is there because he is the only FULL MET in the HOF.

When someone else does it they will retire his as well!

That is if Sandy doesn’t trade them all for minor leaguers in a month!

By: Metlomaniac

Metlomaniac — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:27:24 +0000

I can certainly appreciate the empathy many of us feel for Kid with the health issues he’s facing, but there are many other Mets who deserve to have their numbers retired before Carter, including his own teammates.

Jerry Koosman is long overdue, as is Tug McGraw. Keith Hernandez and Mookie were Kid’s teammates who should be on the wall before Gary, and even as Met catchers go, sorry, Mike Piazza has to be there first.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:25:26 +0000

I don’t disagree with you on Piazza but you can at least make the case he played longer for us than he did for the Dodgers. Not that where you spent most of your time is a determining factor either.

By: jessep

jessep — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:17:20 +0000

And I’ll be honest, I’m not really sold on Piazza either.

I’m not even sold he goes into HOF as a Met.

I know based on timing he should.

But realistically
1997 LAD
1995 LAD
1996 LAD
1993 LAD
1994 LAD

2000 NYM
1998 NYM
2001 NYM
1999 NYM

Those were his Hall of Fame or borderline HOF seasons in my book. Maybe you could argue 2002 with the Mets, but in reality his seasons with the Dodgers (especially his better ones) are better than his years with the Mets.

I think at the end of the day he will go in with the Mets, but I don’t think it should just be tossed aside as a lock

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:15:11 +0000

” If that’s the case, what’s the big deal if we retire Carter’s number?”

Well then why not retire the number of EVERY player that ever won a WS for us then too?

Backman should be in, Dykstra, Hell put in Ojeda he had something to do with it…

What would happen if we did?

Eventually we would retiring Jersey AX because there were no numbers between 00 and 99 left to give out!

Just my opinion but you need to do a little more than win a WS and get to the hall because if that was the parameters then they should be retiring halladay and Leee’s jersey in the next two months in Phillie if thats all it takes.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:11:50 +0000

Did they win the WS?

If not you are an Also ran…

Quick without googleing it, Who lost the 1916 World Series. If you have to look then I rest my case!
You don’t remember them they were just another team that ran!

Reggie was the guy who changed that by making them WS winners…Mr October!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:06:20 +0000

Which one (Carter or hernandez) held the major League Record that stood for over 40 years and would still hold it today if Steroids had not been invented and used?

Maris did something that was special not only in regard to the yankees but to Baseball itself!

If you have a great career for a team you get into their own HOF…
If you play the best compared to the guys you played with you get inot the baseball hall of fame.

If you do something no one else in the MLB has or ever will do without the use of cheating devices, You get your number retired!

Or do some GREAT THING in regards to all of baseball history…

If your not in the same class as the mantles and the Cy Youngs, Williams or Koufax and even Seaver, in the minds of EVERY fan then the truth is you probably shouldn’t have your number retired!

By: Drew

Drew — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 20:03:20 +0000

I don’t know if Carter “deserves” to have his number retired by the Mets, and I surely wouldn’t want it done strictly because of the current conditions. I do think that it sparks a bigger debate on why the Mets seem to be unable or unwilling to retire ANY numbers for their former players other than Seaver? Seaver was the franchise, I get it, but I don’t think that that means he gets to be the only player with his number retired by the Mets.

There area a number of numbers that the Mets could consider retiring (31, 17, 8, 7, etc), and I think this discussion should be more about why the Mets won’t retire ANY numbers than if the Mets should specifically retire Carter’s. I think it’s absurd that, with the players that we’ve had since inception, only ONE player has his number on the outfield wall. We don’t need to be the Yankees and retire every number for a player who had a big game or big season, but we should have the opportunity to honor more than JUST one of our legends.