6
2011
2011 First Year Player Draft: Time For DePodesta To Shine
An article by Craig Lerner
So far this season, we’ve seen Sandy Alderson successfully navigate his way with very little cash on hand to do the things he probably would have wanted and preferred.
He rolled the dice on a few players and lost some and won some, but to his credit, the Mets are still relevant.
Terry Collins has done a great job at keeping the team focused and not letting all the injuries take their fight away. The Mets keep battling and every game is a testament to how different they are this year. Last season at this time, the Mets were already becoming unglued and falling apart.
Tonight is the start of the 2011 First Year Player Draft. This is where Paul DePodesta gets some of the spotlight, after years of success with the Dodgers and A’s before them, he now is tasked with building up a mostly barren farm system whose best prospects are still in the low minors.
The Mets vice president of player development and amateur scouting, has logged tens of thousands of miles traveling all over the country to watch and scout many of the players whose names we’ll hear during the first few rounds of the drafts. By now he knows who he likes, and what direction he wants to take our team today. He’s been on the job for six months and his goal is to reap the best talent he can get his hands on and hopefully give the team a few future stars.
According to Brian Costa of the Wall Street Journal, DePo understands that drafting the best talent is one thing, but getting them to sign is a totally different story. He vows to draft the best players regardless of signability and hopes the Mets do what it takes to have the money in the budget to pay for it all.
“I don’t know how our absolute spending will end up lining up,” DePodesta said. “But I’ll put it this way: On draft day, I think we’re going into it with the idea that when our turn comes to pick in every round, we’re going to take the guy that we think is the best player on the board and not worry so much about the signability portion of it. We’re going to go after what we believe is talent.”
“It’s one big pie of spending. Because my focus right now is scouting, of course I’m going to push for a bigger signing-bonus budget and carve some out of other areas to do that. But the fact is, in order to do that, you have to make sacrifices.”
I know how important today is for everyone in the front office including Sandy Alderson. The Mets GM has addressed the slotting issue a few times at least in the past six months, and he doesn’t expect the Mets to let signing bonuses stand in the way of securing the players they want. “Obviously, there’s a lot of hit and miss in the draft, but you do have to spend money on talent,” general manager Alderson said, according to the Wall Street Journal. Whether that’s true or not remains to be seen, but we’ll know soon enough.
Live coverage of the Draft begins with a one-hour preview show tonight at 6:00 PM on MLB.com and MLB Network, followed by the first round and supplemental compensation round. The Mets first selection comes in at No. 13 and they will have four of the first 101 selections. The buzz is that they will target starting pitching, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they go after a couple of power bats in the early rounds as well.
In another post I wrote, I previewed some of the players the Mets might be considering with their first pick. They include pitchers Taylor Guerrieri, Taylor Jungmann, Sonny Gray and Jed Bradley. Outfielders George Springer and Mikie Mathook, as well as shortstops Francisco Lindor and Levi Michael, could also be high on the Mets wish lists. I’m 99.9% certain that the Mets first selection will come from that group. My money is on Jungmann.
It’s a very deep draft, so there’s a lot to be excited about as the the new guys have over 50 years of experience between them. Good luck to the Mets tonight.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
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Not based on anything except what Ive been able to read, I think the Mets will get either Guerrieri or Jungmann. I understand the need for a top power hitter, but we still need to develop an ace and this years draft is pitching rich.
“So far this season, we’ve seen Sandy Alderson successfully navigate his way with very little cash on hand to the things he probably would have wanted. He rolled the dice on a few players and lost some and won some, but to his credit, the Mets are still relevant.”
Won some and lost some???? What??? I think it’s safe to say this Alderson has lost most and did not have a good off season at all? Are you kidding me??
One can also say the Mets are afloat not only because of Collins but DESPITE of Alderson’s moves not because – this Lerner guy is too much, does he think the readership here is not gonna notice this and see right through his false words?
“Tonight is the start of the 2011 First Year Player Draft. This is where Paul DePodesta gets some of the spotlight, after years of success with the Dodgers and A’s before them”
Depo has years of success?? What teams has he made better and who are the players that he drafted that got him this label of “success” as Lerner put it.
This guy Lerner should go write for Bleacher Report because that’s exactly where this amateurish/dishonest type of shill writing belongs. Not here.
I wish you would stop resorting to insults if you are going to disagree with my points of view. I don’t insult you or any readers and would appreciate that same courtesy toward me. I did not say Alderson had a great offseason, I simply said it was successful considering he did not have the mega millions his predecessor had every offseason he was GM. Minaya spent almost a billion dollars during his time as GM and most of it was on contracts that were either too long or for the wrong players. Alderson spent a little over $10 million to get the same results Minaya got while spending over $100 million last offseason. Minaya’s last shopping spree resulted in Jason Bay who the Mets are stuck with for the next 3 1/2 years.
As for DePo, his draft record in Oakland and LA is there for everyone to see. I’m not going to waste another minute of my time trying to explain to you what countless others have already done.
Maybe if you weren’t so boorish, rude and driven by an agenda against this front office, I would have taken the time to highlight some of those success stories. But I think I’ll pass.
Craig, what do you expect from a know-it-all jackass from New Jersey? Ignore him. He has no class whatsoever for you to respond. Let him rant.
what do you expect from a know-it-all jackass from New Jersey?”
LMAO… wow, the hostility!!!
Craig, I thought the sentence about Depo’s drafts in Oakland and LA was a little strong. I’d call the results mixed at best. San Diego is where he did his best work so far and that makes some sense. He’s now been at it for ten years and presumably learned a few things along the way but I am concerned that high floor/low ceiling/not likely to break out huge type players are being talked about or Geiuerri who I have a bad feeling about. Levi’s not going to be special. There are SS’s farthur down who are better but we have to pay them to forgo college. Take the best player and get as many as you can, not the safest one’s.
I really believe they did scrimp and save what they could so that they could get us some top shelf players in the draft and IFA signing period that would be here for quite a number of years, have their best years in our uniform, not someone elses and not stink up the whole joint like so many of Minaya’s, Duquette’s and Phillip’s expensive mistakes that not only cost us a lot of wins, but also cost us a lot of wins going forward because when they retired, got cut or dumped for salary relief left nothing behind for future teams.
I think it’s very fair to be concerned about Depo’s prior drafts especially the famed moneyball one. That draft could have set Oakland up for years but instead lead to the crash that began in 2007. Clearly Jeremy Brown was a below slot selection bust they could have taken in the 5th round if they loved him so much. How much money played a part in WHO they drafted we’ll never know but I do know this. If we were to be able to get two top shelf players and two other significant contributors out of this draft and do the same on July 2nd with the International signing period and add them to some of the guys Omar acquired like Harvey, Famillia, Urbina, Rodriguez, Gorski?, Cohoon, Moviel, Rustich and Mejia on the mound and Tejada, Flores, Puello, Den Deker, Vaughn, Ceccilini, Niewenhaus, Fern, even Pena perhaps we could finally start to have the makings of a real team that is sustainable and end this cycle of crash, compete, blow up, disapoint and crash again. That would be worth whatever we have to go through in the short term because once you get it going, it’s a lot easier to keep it going because you have options all the way around. You don’t have to settle for someone and overpay in years and dollars because “who else were we going to get to play _____?”
Clearly there are a few people that have thrown them selves on the restaurant floor screaming, kicking and crying cause we didn’t overpay a couple of guys to come here but if that money saved nets us 8 good players to team up with the eight or so Omar may have on the way we just might be on the way towards having a real team in a few years.
Whether Depodesta/McDonald are able to do so this week and next month will determine how things will be around here for a very long time and in my opinion there is reason to worry but I’m am hopeing for the best.
I’d love to see Jed Bradley, Andrew Susak, Brad Miller, Kyle Smith, Sean Trent but would also love Trevor Story at #44.
It’s really a shame this new administration didn’t have the time to set ourselves up for getting extra picks the way Toronto, Boston and Tampa did. There are so many potential starters out there. The 4th round is like your normal 2nd round. Then it’s off to sign some international amateurs and get us going back in that arena after backing off from it after 2007.
interesting that you mentioned getting 2 guys. There was a piece in the phily paper this weekend (I live in SJ, so it is local) about the dude that has been incharge of the Philly draft for 10+ years, and a recap of each year.
In the article, he was quoted as saying that the team philosophy (not sure if it was started by Gillick, or endorsed) is that if they get 2 guys out of a draft that contribute anything of significance to the club, it was a successful draft. Of course, sometimes those guys contribute by being a key piece traded for a veteran.
In essence, they are saying they are happy with about a 4% hit rate (and 96% failure rate) in the draft. Talk about a crap shoot.
The MLB draft is the ultimate crapshoot. Filled with top 5 busts, guys who decline to sign, demand ML contracts, Borass, performance and injury washouts. It’s really incredible when your talking about a 4% hit rate but one teams 4% is totally different than anothers.
The Phillies are notorious for taking huge risks on the most athletic players who have both the biggest upside and the highest bust rate.
Compare that to our most common strategy of college pitcher who will sign for slot, is considered to be a “safe” choice both in ability to get up here, signability and has a medium upside. Theoretically the Phillies 4% would provide a hell of a lot more than our 4% in terms of actual on field performance.
I don’t know how teams do it but some of them have lowered the odds because their always pulling guys out of the draft. Some teams like the Braves for example combine great drafts with great signings in the international area. That really keeps the prospect flow going and affords the opportunity to hit real big because their pool of REAL potentials is so much bigger.
The Braves have recently brought up Hanson, Beachy, Venters and Kimbrell and still have Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino and Minor who are really highly regarded. Add those pitchers to homegrown guys like McCann, Freeman, Prado, Heyward, Chipper and guys they traded for Jurjens, McClouth, Uggla (forget the bad start) and that is a hell of a lot of talent.
One thing the Braves did last year was sign two IFA catchers. That’s the kind of thing we should be doing. We haven’t provided a catcher for ourselves since Hundley. The Braves were pioneers in Curaceo (Anderew Jones) have mined the DR, Venezuela, Panama, and Colombia and have now signed FIVE European IFA’s. They’ve even opened a prospect development camp in the Canary Islands (Spain off the coast of Africa which is probably their next target.) They are always scouting anything that could possibly produce a Major League baseball player. They even got a guy (Moylan) off the Australian team in the WBC. Years ago got their closer (Kerry Lightenberg) off a semi pro team in South Dakota. They got two 2B from the 29th (Lemke and 53rd (Giles) round of the draft. We go the lazy way, pay a fortune and get ****.
Philly has a 9 deep pitching staff in A+ Clearwater that has just been blowing everyone away. Striking guys out like crazy and only given up 9 unearned runs the whole year so far. We have some guys down there doing very well too (Harvey, Familla, Moviel, Gorski) but guess what? So far the Phillies A+ team has given up 100 less runs than our PT. St. Lucie Mets. A hundred less!
Some people may honestly believe that the Braves and Phillies homegrown players suck. They may believe that their approach is all wrong. They may clamor for more of the SOS of signing guys who are at the end of their career’s to expensive contracts. They may want to allocate 99% of payroll to whoever we can get to play a particular position every year instead of doing our work ahead of time and providing a better solution ourselves.
That’s fine. Believe our philosophy and allocation of assets is the right way to do things all you want to. The fact is the actual on field results between the Phillies, Braves and Mets would disagree.
chicken and egg I think with the Braves. That is, they might not overall get better talent into the system than many other teams, but they sure as hell seem to develop it better!
I agree, the draft is a place where most times you’re wrong. The key is developing the draftees into big leaguers after you get them in your system.
A 1st round pick may be the best of the talent around him now, but if he isn’t developed properly and stays healthy, it doesn’t matter when he was drafted
The Braves have an extensive and well developed scouting system. I’m sure they do a great job in development too but all the development in the world won’t produce the type of players they have through the years. It has to start with identifying and projecting the talent. To give you an example they drafted Craig Kimbrell in the 30th round, didn’t sign him but came back a couple years latter and nabbed him in the 3rd round.
They develop well, for instance they don’t let pitchers throw the slider before AA but the thing they do the best is they EMPHASIZE the draft. They trade constantly from the farm. Sometimes one way, sometimes the other, but they combine their draft with IFA’s from all over the world and consequently rarely get caught short.
They draft mostly high school players, many who grew up rooting for the Braves and somehow avoid having to go overslot for these kids. They have relationships with all the people involved in amateur baseball from VA, NC, SC, TN, MS, FL, GA, AK. This gives them a huge advantage because they know the people who know the kids. That comes from their importance they place on the draft.
The same thing applies internationally. Signing the 16 year old in South or Central America, the Caribbean and now Europe as they’ve started doing is all about relationships, connections, reputation.
The Braves scouting infastructure is well established and refined because of the importance they place on it.
“I think it’s safe to say this Alderson has lost most and did not have a good off season at all?”
Well, that’s what happens when you target guys with “grit and clutch” like Harris or defensedefensedefense guys like Hu.
But Paulino, Izzy, Beato, Buchholz, and Byrdak more recently haven’t been good at all, right? And Young wasn’t the best pitcher on the team for a mere million dollars, right? And Capuano hasn’t been a good fifth starter, with his 3.86 xFIP and 4.02 tERA?
Here’s an analogy you can understand. You calling someone dishonest is like your big RBI guy Bay telling someone they can’t hit.
You know, one could argue also that Alderson spent $ on ditching Ollie P & Castillo. Something people often forget, he did something Omar wouldn’t do.
Also, people love talking about Justin Turner and how Omar got him. If Omar beleived in Turner so much, why wasn’t he with the big club last year?
Bayonne: Do you take every blog as an opportunity to try and slam Sandy Alderson and then where you try to slam writers?
It gets old…you bring nothing to the table.
craig,
alderson has had success with some and not with others, but is obvious you got some type of love for him when you said: Sandy Alderson successfully navigate his way with very little cash on hand to the things he probably would have wanted. He rolled the dice on a few players and lost some and won some, but to his credit, the Mets are still relevant.”
let me tell you something, FEW PLAYER FROM ALDERSON has really made a difference, capuano has been so so at best, izzy maybe i give you that, beato came back to earth, trust me, the mets are where they are because jose reyes and beltran have come to play, and we stole a few wins here and then, but alderson hasn’t done crap imo, let’s see next year and beyond before we judge him or give him credit for the mets, if i am not mistaken most of this kids thriving are omar’s kids (i hated omar minaya), so the book is still out on alderson, who won in oakland with a bunch of steroids users, and in san diego he didnt win crap!!!
2 steroid users. And if you think they were the only guys in the league using, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
And he made San Diego relevant in October. How often have the Mets been able to say that?
Alex: How come nobody takes titles away from Steinbrenner’s tenure for players on steroids?
And I’m frankly kind of tired of this idea that Alderson’s A’s “won because of steroids”
The 88-90 A’s which went to the World Series 3 straight years were built on pitching. Did Canseco and McGwire have an impact? Sure…
In 88 and 89, that team had success because of Stewart, Welch, Davis, Eckersley, Honeycutt and the rest of the pen as well as Dave Henderson.
In 89, Canseco played in 65 regular season games. Carney Lansford, Rickey Henderson, Dave Stewart, Mike Moore, Bob Welch, Storm Davis, Eckersley, the pen…
Same with regard to 1990… it’s not like the A’s during that tenure just mashed the ball and beat teams 11-10 on their way to a short term dynasty.
3 straight world series and 1` championship is pretty good wouldn’t u say??
Craig I’m going to respond here because I know the bayonne reply will quickly turn into a romper room thread as soon as everyone wakes up….
I would prefer to talk about the point he actually made which is not wrong, just ruined by the insults.
You state that Sandy did well considering the amount of money he had to spend. But is that because he got his money’s worth? Or is it merely because he didn’t have enough money to spend to really make anyone care about what he did?
Hu Gone!
Hairston – hasn’t done much of anything
Harris – cost us more games than Castillo ever did
Young – Two starts and done
Carrasco – in the Minors
Buchholz – On the DL
Boyer – What has he done lately?
Capuano – 3 and 6 (not all his fault he’s closer to .500 in QS) with a 5.19 ERA
Paulino – probably his best find all offseason if he stays above .300 BA
He spent 7 Mil this offseason and really only 2.8 Mil of it has actually been any good!
the 1.5 Mil on Capuano and the 1.3 Mil on Paulino.
We don’t really complain about the others BECAUSE they didn’t get paid much but 4.2 Mil of 7 Mil (More than half!) was wasted money unless the guys that remain like Harris Hairston and Buchholz start contributing in a big way to this team.
is 2 for 8 a good average? Sandy is currently batting .250 in the FA market, you can excuse it due to the fact that he didn’t have the money to spend if you like but Wasted money is wasted money no matter how you slice it! The only redeeming quality to these signings is they aren’t multi year deals which has more to do with the limits on the budget than Sandy’s negotiation and evaluation skills.
You could get a lot of good players for 4.2 Mil if your really good at evaluating talent.
He did a good job getting Beato but that is offset by getting Emaus the same way and he took Emaus BEFORE he took Beato! Is that a sign of being smart?
The premise that Sandy didn’t have a lot of money is a fine excuse to use in not expecting him to come up with any big moves to change the nature of the team.
But as I have said many times on this site, It is not about how much you spend but HOW you spend it!
All you can say about Sandy’s first year as GM is that it is his first year, he needed to hold tight to finances until he sees where the team needs to go and therefore you can’t really slam him too hard for a very poor (if not disastrous thanks to not having money to spend) FA year.
Basically he shopped at KMart and got what you typically get at KMart…
Something that will hold you but at some point will break down forcing you to spend even more to fill the same hole twice.
Some people say Reyes isn’t worth 20 Mil but he at least GIVES you 20 Mil worth of performance. It’s a lot of money but you get it ALL back in performance.
If we don’t pay Reyes and spend that 20 Mil the way we spent it this year then we will have wasted 11.7 Mil (Perez type money) at the current success rate.
And that simply is not smart.
The only thing you can say about this offseason is Sandy can not be crucified for pretty much just treading water in it.
It was smart not to commit to any big contracts until he knew which way the wind was blowing in Citi so you can commend him for not doing that and as a side affect dismiss the failures acquired this offseason.
Bottomline is the Mets are still relevant due to all the guys in the Minors who have come up and played hard who everyone wanted to dismiss as AWFUL due to the fact Omar brought them here and god forbid Omar should get notice for doing anything correctly!
All the best performers are the guys Sandy went out to replace! Exception Reyes and Beltran!
So No you cant’t slam Sandy for his pretty poor record in FA due to the money limitations but you can’t applaud him either!
And as for the draft well time will tell. So far they are 50/50 in drafts with the bad 50 getting picked before the good 50!
There is no reason to believe they are going to do a great job in this draft.
At least not based on past performance. It’s good that we have 3 of the top 79 picks.
I believe Arizona has 12 of the first 89! How can they miss? I’m sure in a few years someone will be talking about how genius they are if they only have a 50/50 record and get 6 players in the first 89!
There is no rush to judge Sandy and DePo either good or bad yet.
They didn’t try to do too much because it was prudent to do that.
They didn’t spend a lot of money because they didn’t have it!
They couldn’t make great decisions because they were still trying to find their offices at the time they had to evaluate players (Certainly inadequate enough to play Moneyball this offseason and find the value).
In the end the Sandy era is going to be largely judged by what happens and how we look after the trading deadline.
Cause that will be the first time Sandy truly makes his mark on this franchise. Even a great draft now will not prove anything until 2 years are past and we see where these guys are at that time.
So I just wish both sides would stop trying to make points on how good/bad Sandy was/has and is going to be!
It really is a futile exercise!
He is the GM for at least 3 years before he gets considered for replacing barring a change in ownership who has their own guy to take over.
So it really is pointless in trying to make Sandy and Co. a Savior, Genius or a schmuck at this point.
All we can do is watch, look for the signs, evaluate the success and failure and rate him based on that.
So far he is 50/50 in the draft and 2 for 8 in signings.
Not promising but given the circumstances not ready for crucifixion either!
I would disagree on Buchholz. I think he’s been a really good signing and his 3.12 ERA, while still good, is infalted by pitching injured his last outing, whiuch led to his DL sint. Coming into that outing, he was pitching to roughly a 2.20 ERA. And Young made four starts, not two. So I guess he was TWICE as good as you say!
Still comes out to 275K (Quarter Mil+) per start.
Not trashing the Young deal mind you just noting that it was never more than a lottery ticket with a high payoff that the winning number just didn’t come up on. I guess it was worth the 1.1 Mil to have the ticket but you can’t say it was a successful signing. If Omar had done that deal just imagine what people would be saying right now. Young would be the deal that finally put Perez to rest in forgotten history!
Bucholtz isn’t a bad signing on the whole he just isn’t part of the reason we are winning what we have more of a This guy needs rest ok lets go Buch!
With the other waste we could have kept Takahashi who is granted not much better but could also have served as a replacement starter as he did last year and taken that 7th inning spot too.
Like I was trying to say, the Difference is so small there really is no point in trying to say he did this well or did that bad.
And it’s all hindsight anyway, I don’t expect a GM to have a great success when he is too busy looking for staff to evaluate the guys, at the time he needed to be evaluating guys!
“Young would be the deal that finally put Perez to rest in forgotten history!”
I wasn’t meaning to suggest that it would be made fairly…just made!
The thing is, what deal did Omar make that compares to the Chris Young deal?
I’d sign Young again right now even knowing he would only make four starts. If you pro rate his starts and pay him $8.8 mil for 32 starts the quality of what his four starts were, Sandy would win executive of the year. The quarter mil+ per start is really well under market value for the quality Young brought to the table.
But that’s counting if he pitched that way all season long right? His ERA was under 2, so he wouldn’t have done that all year, he’s not THAT good.
No, of course not. But he’d still be this team’s ace and most teams #2.5.
When he’s healthy he is, but he’s never healthy.
That’s why you have Dillon Gee as his protection. If the stars align and he’s healthy, you have your ace. If he’s not, you have Gee. That’s why it’s a great sign and you’d do it again next year.
oh okay so you decide now on June 6, 2011 just a few weeks after Young went out for the year that you would sign him again next year.
You’re already deciding that without seeing how he heals, okay.
lol, jesus… ppl, chris young pitched 4games, 4 GAMES!!!!!!!
did he throw 4 no hitters or something?? am i missing something here?? you guys wanna give credit to alderson who went cheaper and sign young instead of getting someone like, um, idk, jeff francis who even though is not that good at least pitches every 5 days..
and btw, before some of you go all sabermetrics on me i know he’s 2-6 but his ERA is 4.19, better than capuano 3-6 5.20 ERA.. francis has been plague by a bad team and bad luck, with us he’d be at least 1 or 2 wins better.. oh, and only we got outbid by the royals for .5 million.. pathetic!!
Are you really that stupid? Of course if his arm is in a sling you don’t sign him. But if he can throw a baseball, you sign him for the same low base salary. Being injured and being injury prone are two entirely different things. Young was helthy to start the season. Capuano is healthy now, but injury prone.
It’s really like talking to a child.
Well you’d have to see who else is available first before deciding if you want to gamble on Chris Young again.
Didn’t he say he was feeling fine before the Mets signed him? He could say it again.
I don’t think i’d go that way again even if he is proven to be 100% healthy again. He NEVER stays healthy so I don’t think i’d waste my time with him again.
Oh, okay so you decide now on June 6th that even if he’s 100% healthy you wouldn’t sign him?
You’re already deciding that without seeing how he throws, or who else is available?
See, I can be childish and petty, too.
Well, at that time nobody was expecting Gee to be THIS good, if it was expected for him to be this good he would have started the season in the rotation. Sure now you can say Young was worth the risk because of the way Gee is pitching now, but during the offseason I didn’t want to count on Gee in the rotation.
And as I said many times, I wouldn’t have minded the Young signing that much if he would have signed another pitcher that was more reliable than Capuano. I thought it was a very good chance that they both would have went on the DL, and that would have killed our chances at making the playoffs – During the offseason, I didn’t think we can win with Dickey, pelf, Niese, Gee, and Mejia in the rotation.
Capuano hasn’t missed a start yet.
he hasn’t YET, but i’ll be surprised if he makes it through the whole season.
The last time he threw over 200 innings was in 2006, he missed two years because of injuries, and last year when he came back, he only threw over 90 pitches one time.
Do you think he can last the whole season? I don’t. It’s possible I guess, but I wouldn’t count on it.
I wouldn’t put money on Capuano making 34 starts, but he had a backup, too. It’s tough luck Mejia got hurt.
“That’s why it’s a great sign and you’d do it again next year”
Your words not mine. So we’re to assume that you really didn’t mean it? Okay.
“I don’t think i’d go that way again even if he is proven to be 100% healthy again. He NEVER stays healthy so I don’t think i’d waste my time with him again.”
My words. I’m not committing to anything but yes the way his career has been I don’t think i’d sign him again even if he is healthy. And of course it depends on our situation and who else is available but yes, the way i feel now on June 6, 2011 I would not sign him again. I have history on my side, you don’t.
If he can throw a baseball pain-free and wants a million dollars, I do it without a question. It’s smart baseball.
I would have looked elsewhere if I knew for sure he was going to break down. Bullpen burnout is a serious problem for a baseball team (see 2007 and 2008) caused by starting pitchers who cannot get out of the 4th, 5th or 6th inning.
It was a reasonably risky move with the potential benefit of 20 quality starts and an A prospect at the deadline and then bring up Mejia or Gee after THEY had 20 AAA starts under THEIR belts. Good attempt, good thought process. Just didn’t work out the way we had hoped.
At least we didn’t have to live with such poor performance, clog up our roster and hamstring our payroll for years to come with that signing.
Good call on Takahashi and Feliciano though. 22 IP between them at a 4.76 ERA for 8M plus whoever we get with the 44th pick in tonights draft. That’s a win for Alderson even though certain people won’t acknowledge that.
Certain people feel that what you can purchase for 13M should be equal or better to what you can get with 250 M at your disposal. I’ve never had either sum available to me so I can’t say for sure one way or another but if I had my choice I’d go with the 250 M.
My top choice (if I had one) was Terry Ryan. I think he would have been perfect but that doesn’t mean I’m against the guy who got the job. A guy incidentally that just might have been placed there by Selig to prevent a complete economic meltdown.
Tell you the truth I’d be in favor of anyone who built us a respectable team for the long term instead of just trying to piece it together every year with who ever just so happens to be available to stink up the joint.
Twenty years of monkeyball is enough.
I wouldn’t say it’s a “win” for Alderson for not signing Taka. He had a few bad games that inflated his ERA, let’s see what his numbers are like at the end of the year becuase he can pitch a couple of good games in a row, and his ERA can be under 3 – It’s still too early.
And yes, it was a good move not bringing back Felciano – I said it at the time, but my problem was with that is he should have replaced him with someone better than Byrdak – they should have signing Choate. It was also a bad move to only have ONE lefty in the bullpen in this division.
Your right on all accounts Vinny. So far it appears to have been a good move to let Taka go. That could change. Personally I was disapointed to see him leave. Pedro I felt had not much left and the pick is really important to us.
Two LHP in the pen is a neccesity in our Division and Choate was a good choice as was Harang but if Alderson (and I know it’s not a sure thing) but IF he held money back for the draft and IFA signing period it will serve us much better in the long run if they do it correctly.
After all if we had been doing that all along we would have have been able to produce our own starting pitcher, 2 loogy’s, a LFer and a catcher.
You’re right about Choate and having more than one lefty in the division.
But Taka seemed to have been figured out towards the end of the year, and aside from three or four starts, he wasn’t very useful after the 5th inning. That pitcher is ok, but not for a multi-year deal worth over $10 million. If Taka could be had for Choate’s money, I’d sign him and let him live in my guest room rent-free.
Did you see his stats as a RP last year?
2.04 ERA, 60k’s in 57 IP, 8 saves in 8 tries, 1.13 WHIP – I’d pay 2 years 8 million for that. He also held lefties to a .217 batting avearge last year.
The 2/8 is what he settled for after his first request was turned down.
Metsie, first of all thank you for keeping the disagreement respectable.
You wrote the following: You state that Sandy did well considering the amount of money he had to spend. But is that because he got his money’s worth? Or is it merely because he didn’t have enough money to spend to really make anyone care about what he did?
What I tried to say was that Alderson didn’t sign Hu, Hairston, and the other players you mentioned because they were his most optimal choices.
Alderson was forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill a dozen roster spots on this team while spend less than $10 million dollars.
It’s hard enough to find capable players even when you shop at Tiffany’s where Omar Minaya got Jason Bay. It’s a 50/50 crap-shoot even when you dole out the big bucks.
How much more difficult is it to comprise a dozen acquisitions while being forced to look at only players that other teams didn’t want or were coming back from injury?
Do you see my point?
I never said Alderson had a great offseason, we all know he didn’t. All I said and I still stand by statement, was that Alderson was successful when you consider his budget and his circumstances.
Look at it this way, what gives you more value Beato, Capuano, Izzy and Paulino for $3.9 million, or Luis Castillo for $6.25 million?
The money we owe Oliver Perez is $4 million more than what Alderson spent on a dozen players this offseason.
Even if you were to say lest take the whol $8.9 million Alderson spent on every acquisition. Wouldn’t you have to agree that getting Chris Capuano, Pedro Beato, Jason Isringhausen, Taylor Buchholz and Ronny Paulino for $8.9 million is a steal?
Thanks for your comment.
I get what your saying and it is predicated on the notion that we needed a dozen replacements. I’m am not so sure we did, Apparently in hindsight you can say we didn’t we just needed Capuano and Beato (and for X’s sake I’ll say Bucholz despitre the fact I’m not sure we needed him either).
I can however understand where Sandy would thnk we did since he didn’t know what we had and didn’t have time to really audit since he was still hiring staff during the winter meetings.
Which is why I can’t damn him or compliment him based on what he did this offseason.We only needed those guys because we had questions that couldn’t be answered till spring training. The answer were already here.
They may not have been his optimal choices. But isn’t it better to get the one that is optimal and let the farm fill in? He didn’t waste a lot of money but mostly because he didn’t spend a lot of money.
It could be argued that EVERY player you acquire other than the draft is a player no one else wanted. For whatever reason, money, health skill he was free to get. Just that the more they want you the more you cost.
Was he successful? I wouldn’t say that, he wasn’t UNSUCCESSFUL and you can hardly say he screwed the pooch but successful to me would be if he locked up another position that we no longer have to look for the next 4 years so we can work on some other position that isn’t cutting it.
Sandy treaded water if you ask me, filled some holes that could have been filled by the guys who are filling it now. Instead of Hairston we have Pridie, Instead of Hu we have Turner, Instead of Carrasco we have Gee.
I don’t blem Sandy for not knowing about them when he made his moves which is why I don’t blame him or care much that he signed them, didn’t bankrupt us or hurt us at all.
But you can’t really call it a success.
No more than falling asleep behind the wheel of a car and avoiding at the last minute going off the cliff can be considered successful driving!
He didn’t screw up he took gambles and a couple didn’t pay off.
He didn’t spend much, didn’t get much and despite not really needing it he didn’t hurt the team.
If we have lowered the bar on what a SUCCESSFUL GM is by calling a mere “NOT SCREWED UP” a success then we got bigger issues that who Sandy got in the offseason.
Just saying.
the only things the mets are relevant at are being the butt of the jokes on late night tv, ponzi schemes, last place finishes, poor medical staff, a clueless owner and a sub .500 record, not sure what you see but open your eyes before you write this trash like sandy has done anything besides sign recycled trash and a bench that would make single a team’s cry.
“open your eyes before you write this trash like sandy has done anything besides sign recycled trash and a bench that would make single a team’s cry.”
Replace Sandy with Omar and you won’t see a difference “recycled trash” wise in what Omar has done the last few years. If we are at the butt of jokes, Omar & the Wilpons made the Mets that way. I wish the morons who wanted Omar out in the first place & want him back all of a sudden because of a stupid saber vendetta will someday get it.
omar is gone, stop the the blame bush sh!t! time to stand on your on two feet and those feet suck, like the players sandy signed. the off season is used to fill holes and sandy did nothing but hire a mgr with a career losing record and two guys that think moneyball will work in ny. check the stands, it is only going to get worse but you keeping bowing to the steriod king.
Obviously, I’m talking to someone who’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer writing the same garbage twice but I’ll respond anyway so read slowly because I know your brain doesn’t function properly….
“the off season is used to fill holes and sandy did nothing but hire a mgr with a career losing record and two guys that think moneyball will work in ny.”
You mean the same offseason with the lack of decent FA’s to begin with? Most of the Type A’s were a joke and wasn’t even worth sacrificing a pick. A manager with a losing record? A 444–434 record is LOSING? Are you dyslexic? The 444 represents wins, which means he has a winning overall record, dumbass. He had a winning record EVERY year wherever he went, with the exception of ’99…the year of drama queens and inmates running the asylum. You say stop the “blame bush shit” yet here you are being a hypocrite and blaming people. Piss off, fairy.
Ever stop and think about WHY we always have so many holes to fill every off season? Do you have any interest in curing the illness or do you want to spend the next 23 years still trying to cure the symptoms?
Ever wonder why Vince Coleman, Mo Vaughn, Roberto Alomar, Jeremy Burnitz, Bobby Bonilla, Brett Saberhagen, Eddie Murray, Kevin Appier, Roger Cedeno, Rickey Henderson, Pedro Martinez, Billy Wagner, Moises Alou, Scott Schowenweiss, Luis Castillo and Jason Bay despite being past their prime or well past their prime represent such an upgrade in talent level on our roster?
Filling 10 holes every year is the same thing as shoveling **** against the tide every off season.
Not one of these former All-Stars came even close to duplicating their best years while playing for the Mets. Most cost us draft choices which make it MORE difficult to win later. Every single one of these guys got hurt or had to be cut or traded away for salary relief.
Real difference makers are rarely available in the free agency market and those that are cost a fortune which takes away from your team elsewhere so if that FA gets hurt or can’t perform your hosed.
teams are buying out a couple of FA years so the players hitting free agency are getting older while at the same time steroids are now being tested for and have been since 2005.
The occasional Johan Santana deal can be worthwhile but the bulk of your players, bench, pen, rotation and AAA depth has to come from the farm because the free agent market is more limited now then ever and the competition so fierce and when you come right down to it, is anything but a sure thing in and of itself.
If Alderson held a decent chunk of money back in order to get us some top shelf talent in the draft and on July 2nd for the IFA signing period then I applaud him.
The players on this team have been provided with every resource imaginable to help them win and it is time they stepped up and started doing it on their own without stealing from future teams. There has already been a difference in the lack of giving up that we have seen so much of over the last few years. The manager is calling out the team and not settling for “battling.” He is turning the culture of easy acceptance of losing into one of not being tolerated. That wouldn’t have been possible without the younger guys being given a chance and by bringing in more expensive older guys without something to fight for.
It is high time we start addressing the sickness, not the symptoms of it.
Hopefully that work will begin in earnest tonight and carry through the IFA signing period beginning July 2nd.
“omar is gone, stop the the blame bush sh!t! ”
But we still have to deal with his legacy. He had the same problem you seem to. You think each season exists in a vacuum. In fact, it does not. Mr. Super Duper Talent Evaluator promised the team would get younger, faster and play better defense. Which of those three actually happened under Omar’s tenure? He had 6 years and all we’re left with are Jason Bay’s contract, the #20 farm system and declining revenues.
“time to stand on your on two feet and those feet suck, like the players sandy signed. the off season is used to fill holes and”
For teams that didn’t have a major regime change. Alderson is still in the process of restructuring the organization to more than a bunch of Wilpon cronies. He also had a lot of hoels to fill and not much money to do it with.
You don’t prepare for the 2011 season in November of 2010.
“sandy did nothing but hire a mgr with a career losing record”
Actually, TC’s career record in MLB is 472-465, good for a .504, and that’s including this year’s sub .500 performance so far. But don’t let facts get in your way.
“two guys that think moneyball will work in ny.”
Moneyball is a book written by Michael Lewis almost 10 years ago. And do please try and read it before you tell us what it is about.
“check the stands, it is only going to get worse”
I have. For the last 2 years. You think things are bad because Alderson is in charge, or because things were run so poorly before he got here?
“you keeping bowing to the steriod king.”
There is so much wrong there that has already been shot down, I don’t know where to start.
No one is bowing to Alderson. We’re giving him a chance to build a sustainable winner and we recognize the situation.
What the hell does steroid king mean? There were 2 guys using on a team that won with pitching and a solid line up 1-9. You think MacGwire and Conseco were the first ones to use? Really? You think they were the only ones at that time?
omar is gone, stop the the blame bush sh!t! time to stand on your on two feet and those feet suck, like the players sandy signed. the off season is used to fill holes and sandy did nothing but hire a mgr with a career losing record and two guys that think moneyball will work in ny. check the stands, it is only going to get worse but you keeping bowing to the steriod king.
will, alex68 approves this msg!!!!
Of course you approve this. You approve anything retarded. Shouldn’t you be ranting about a Wright for Felix deal somewhere?
no, mr un-clutch is hurt. and was batting a pathetic .226, and a whooping 200 with risp and 188 with men on bases!!
yikes!!!!
People no longer have to respond to your posts.
You just prove with every word you type what a baseball idiot you are.
Don’t you have homework to do,clean the basement, finals?
Mr. Unclutch? How do you know he drives an automatic?
CRAIG- First of all, Omar didn’t spend a BILLION since 2005, fool. It’s 736 million. That’s about 25% off the number. Secondly, the ONLY player DepodesTOOL has drafted into the big leagues is Blake Dewitt. Omar Minaya is working on his 4th Hall of Famer in Jose Reyes. Can DepodesTOOL get claim 1 All-Star? Balderson has not drafted anyone in AGES. Riccardi isn’t something to wrote home to mom about either. NONE of them have accumulated the STAR quality players Omar Minaya did. Idiots like yourself wanted a new GM? You got him. I can’t wait to see the collection of TOMATO CANS this Ivy League collection of morons draft. Here’s a pop quiz, brainiac: What do Justin Turner, Jason Pridie, Jose Reyes, Angel Pagan, Ike Davis, Josh Thole, R.A. Dickey, K-Rod, Ruben Tejada, Daniel Murphy, Carlos Beltran, Jon Niese, Mike Pelfrey and Dillon Gee have in common? All of them were acquired in one way or another by Omar Minaya as GM or scout. Pull out a quarter from your pocket and buy a clue, kid.
“Omar Minaya is working on his 4th Hall of Famer in Jose Reyes.”
Even though Minaya actually had little to do with Reyes: Who were the other 3?
JIMMY, 736 M to win one NL East title in 6 years and even that in a year in which the Braves didn’t see .500 after May 3rd, The Phillies didn’t get above .500 until the end of August and the Marlins gave us two of our starters is not a great job. Period. Especially in light of the fact that Omar spent three #1 picks, two 2nd rounders and a third rounder on his teams.
I completely agree with you about the drafts of Depo and Riccardi but I was really expecting more in this area from Omar. Much, much more.
I assume the four HOFers your referring to are Ivan Rodriguez, Juan Gonzalez, Reyes and Sosa. Certainly those guys were great signs but where are ours? During his tenure as GM? None of them were draft choices for one thing. Sosa was already signed (and then unsigned) by the White Sox before Omar snapped him up. It’s not like Omar found him on a lot in San Pedro. Omar himself has said that Eddy Toledo deserves the credit for Reyes. That Eddy called him (as the Mets Sr. Asst. GM and
director of Int’l Scouting) for authorization to sign him for 15 Grand. Toledo worked under Omar but was originally hired by Frank Cashen. Omar also let Toledo go and he is now running the DR for the Marlins. Everyone that Omar hired down there had to be canned in 2009. One of them signed his own nephew (Ramon Pena-Francisco Pena) who hasn’t done ****. Marte, Fern the same. Hey he’s had some hits too Mejia, Familla, Flores, maybe Urbina, Tejada but he did have to can the farm Director (Ayala) but why did the cash dry up after 2007? One guy in 2008, Aderlain Rodriguez (no position) and one guy in 2009, Juan Urbina. That’s it. And it’s probably because of how much was spent on the 25 and I don’t care why Bernazard was canned he sucked at player development. Where is our Ivan Rodriguez? Thole? Please. Thole would be rule 5 fodder in AA in an organization with any talent. Turner and Pridie were DFA’d and passed through the entire AL before we got them. Ike was a #1 pick, so was Pelfrey. Tejada a great sign, Beltran one of the best CFers of all time but no one needed a talent evaluator to tell you that. Murphy was “discovered” by Bernazard’s son who played on the same college baseball team. Dickey was a flyer, nothing more, knew him from Texas. K-Rod was another fantasy GM pick that cost us a shot at Mike Trout and in front of that pitching staff? Give me a ****** break. Niese and especially Gee were terrific picks but there is absolutely nothing to say that Minaya had anything whatsoever to do with drafting Pagan, Wright or Heilman because his end under Phillips was international and if he did then what of the 13 (out of 17) 1st, 2nd and 3rd round busts of the Phillips era? Those were on him too?
Now I can’t say what role the Wilpon played in the whole mess but I suspect it was pretty significant but if he was intent on building us a team rather than playing fantasy GM why would he have voluntarilly handed over a #1 pick for Alou? Why give up TWO #1 picks for a DH? Why give Seattle everything and more that they wanted for an relief pitcher known to be hurt and then never even check him out? Why trade the 20th and 39th picks in the draft for a DH? Why sign a 32 year old who needs knee surgery on both knees to a four year contract? And that 2007 draft sucked by design. College relief pitchers drafted for their ability to maybe do something up here ASAP instead of getting us the best players. Terrible job. And what of Perez and Bay? More fantasy GM BS.
The fact is Minaya could have gotten 10 times more by NOT taking anything away from our future. Projecting performance going forward is what’s important for a GM. The Phillies got Werth for 850G the same year we gave up a #1 for Alou. Phillies got great years out of Werth who will never have the career Moises did but not only played great but left behind TWO #1 picks.
Omar got us a lot of depth, some high talent in the minors and he did it while making us competitive and must have pleased the Wilpon with attendance but he leaves us in our 3rd death spiral of the Wilpon error. He tried to do both things at once, all the while staying within slot. It was too much for anyone to do but his pendulem should have been tilted more toward the draft and Latin American amateurs and less toward other teams former All Stars. I guarantee you Omar would tell you the same thing if he had to do it over.
The book on Omar will be open for another decade but we’re still in 4th place and probably will be for another three or four years. The only difference is Minaya could have done it right, he just fell right into the old fantasy GM BS that is the Wilpon’s preferred method of operation.
Jimmy, I didnt mention that number in my post and I simply guessed he spent a billion to reply to a comment off the top of my head. But you throw around that $736 million like it’s a badge of honor or something. I wonder how many World Series the Twins, Blue Jays, A’s or Braves would have won with that kind of loot in their vault.
I don’t give a sh*t about the Braves or anyone else. Omar inherited one of the worst teams in baseball with no talent except for Reyes and Wright and a BS minor league system. He spent an average of 120 million per year to compete in the NL. He was barely over 100 million in 2006. Your “guess” was way off. A little more responsibility and knowledge is what you require. Please wake me up when the GMs of those franchises turn the Nats/Expos into a playoff contender for a year like Omar did.
T AGEE- Look, Omar took over a 20 game UNDER .500 team with NO prospects, Reyes and Wright as their only young talent, no pitching, and crap minor league system. They were the best team in baseball in 2006. Nuff said. I don’t give a sh*t what happened in 2007 and 2008. His body of work screams success, especially since injuries robbed his team of a ring in 2006, and any type of success in 2009.
As for his drafts and talent finding abilities, I don’t give a flying f*ck who worked under Omar, Omar made the calls and Omar had his guys out there looking for talent. That’s what ALL Head of Scouts do. Fact of the matter is his people found Jose Reyes, much like HE found Sosa, Pudge and Igor. Name me a GM who has drafted/signed that many Hall of Famers over the last 2 decades before demanding things from Omar. He has given us a stud SS, Angel Pagan (found him as well) and plenty of others capable players. If our previous GM (Phillips) wasn’t an idiot, Nelson Cruz might still be here. Don’t give me this signed, but unsigned with Sosa. Omar got him. That’s all there is to it. And Francisco Pena is Tony Pena’s son. The Mets AND Yankees were after him. Stop creating false tales claiming nepotism. Before going off on Jefry Marte, his career is progressing much like Alfonzo’s. He’s about to match his HR output from last year with his next home @ St. Lucie. Learn a little about Pagan and Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans fall under international scouting because they’re not mainland. Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens for the most part, so they fall under MLB draft status. Those are the rules. Omar handles/handled the Pagan draft suggestion in 1999. Phillips played little to any role in that one. Fact of the matter is Puerto Ricans get the shaft when it comes to scouting, because unlike other Latinos, they cannot be drafted @ 16. They must go through the MLB draft after High School.
The Mets were VERY close to winning a ring in 2006. They needed pieces, and not draft picks. That’s why they signed Alou. Problem was he couldn’t stay on the field long enough. In 2007, we had the misfortune of seeing Gomez, Milledge and Chavez go down to the injury bug. That’s a huge reason we fell short. We gave up used toilet water for JJ Putz. What are you whining about? The Castillo signing turned out to be a poor one, but unless you had a crystal ball, you weren’t going to tell me you knew he would break down like he did. The 2007 draft sucked as a whole. And Omar STILL pulled Dillon Gee out of it. Hopefully Lucas Duda and Zach Lutz turn out to be players as well. And Werth is a POS outside of Philly. Give me a break. Omar’s stud Fernando Martinez got hurt. Mejia, who should be the team’s close, also got hurt. Nathan Vineyard’s arm blew up. Add that with the wallets closed off in 2009 and you have a reason why the Mets are in the spot they are in. Omar did a FANTASTIC job under the circumstances. He had to trade over 15 prospects, sign free agents left and right thus losing draft picks to create the best team in baseball in 2006. With that type of spending comes a loss of draft picks and a loss of prospects. He further went in to trade for Santana. To proclaim he did a terrible job is pretty insane. He was the best GM we have had since Cashen. It’s a DISGRACE he’s no longer here. Met fans deserve the drafts they’re going to get from the INEPT trio of DepodesTOOL, Balderson and Riccardi…..
JIMMY, We didn’t have the best team in baseball in 2006. We played almost half our schedule against teams that spent 3/4 of their year (at least) under .500. The teams in our own Division. The NL West sucked overall too. 88 wins took the title. The Central? 83. Tell us exactly when it was that only one team in the NL won over 90 games?
In 2006 the AL had FIVE teams win 90 or more plus LAA (89) Toronto (87) and Boston (86) who didn’t even make the playoffs. If any of those eight teams were in the NL East they would have won the title and 97 games.
I didn’t say Francisco Pena was Tony Pena’s son. I said he was Ramon Pena’s nephew, which he is, and if everyone was so hot to sign him why did he wait until his Uncle got hired before signing?
Putz was not traded for toilet water. Right now Jason Vargas(27) (who Omar got by trading two good inherited arms) would look pretty good in the rotation. Cleto (22 years old) is pitching well finally in the Cardinal system, Carp (24) is hitting well in AAA, Carerro’s (23) made it up to the Majors and Endy’s playing better than ever.
Toilet water is what all those guys got traded for. 29 **** innings at a 5.51 ERA because Minaya couldn’t even be bothered having his elbow checked out even though he was on minor league rehab for it and had the worst year of his career the year before. Then Minaya goes and lets him pitch in the WBC in March! Brilliant, just utterly ****** brilliant.
Maybe PR does fall to the international scouts but they still get drafted. Maybe Minaya did have a hand in it, but again. Where are our Ivan Rodriguez, Juan Gonzalez and Sammy Sosa?
2007 draft may have sucked by why give up a #1 pick for a 40 year old LFer when you could just wait a week and probably keep that pick? Minaya and Alou can’t talk? Highly unlikely SF offers alou arb and if we have the pick there are plenty of decent players on the way up right now we could have spent it on and some up here already like Hunter, Freeman, Zimmerman and Stanton. A GM’s job is to build for today as well as tomorrow. Omar seemed to have forgotten that after 2006.
Anyone with a brain would have realized there is no way a 32 2B can rehab BOTH knees AND prepare for a baseball season. Let him go, pick up a comp pick, play Anderson Hernandez there for a year and put the 24 M into pitching (or the IFA market) and maybe get something for the future with the pick.
Werth (in that park and lineup) gave the Phillies great seasons and left behind 2 #1 draft choices. Moises gave us 100 games over two years and cost us a #1 pick. A GM’s job is to project how things work out going forward, not backward. Only looking at Type A free agents is no guarantee of anything except a further weakening of the farm system.
Lastly I’ve never said he did a terrible job. The job was too big for anyone especially while being handicapped by the self serving slotting guidelines but Omar did know better. He did know sooner or later he was going to run out of players and he did.
In 2009 we had less than zero in AAA and the rotation here in year FIVE included Maine, Perez and Redding and Livan which was worse than what he inherited when he got here, Glavine, Trachsel, Benson, Zambranno, Seo. Year FIVE!
Back in 2005 I would have bet everything I had and everything I would ever acquire that Omar would have so many top shelf, high end super prospects both flooding the 25, the 40 and even losing guys to rule 5 poachers because of the sheer quantity of all his guys. Now when I turn on the game I’m watching guys like Duda, Thole, Fern, Pelfrey, Murphy, Parnell. A case can be made for each one of these guys but collectively……..? I was thinking Vlad, Miguel, Troy, McCann, Ubaldo, Stanton, Hanson, Heyward, not ******* Bay, Castillo, Perez, Maine, Redding, Sosa, Church, Schneider, Francouer, Barajas, Santos, Sullivan.
I’ll give you this Jimmy, if that ultimate moron Duquette doesn’t trade Kazmir Omar pulls it off in 2006 and at the least gets us to the post season in 2007 and 2008 and maybe doesn’t go nuts, gets some breathing room but it still crashes because what prospect flow he did provide dried up. Look at it this way, seven years after minaya took over Josh Thole is our starting catcher and we had to get two injury rehab projects for the rotation, nine new guys for the pen and try out 4 different guys at 2B and the only reason we have a RFer is because Beltran can’t play CF anymore.
I really wonder what the plan would have been for year eight.
He leaves the team and farm better than it was when he got here for sure, the only GM since Mcilvaine who can make that claim but two straight years under .500 and next to nothing in AAA and not much in AA.
I’m glad I didn;t make that bet.
T AGEE- Come on, man! In 2006, we were the best team. Only injuries to Pedro, Duque and Duaner prevented us from raising a flag. For you to argue it makes you look like you have something against Omar Minaya.
Francisco Pena IS Tony’s son and was on every scout’s radar for years. Cut it out, already SMH.
Jason Vargas blew his arm out. The Mets were contenders and didn’t have the time to wait for him. Who are you kidding? LMAO @ Jason Vargas smack..LOL! You CAN’T be serious. Cleto? Cleto is trash. He has never thrown 3 breaking balls in a row for strikes. Get a clue, man. SMH @ Bloated PCL numbers playing in those parks. Carp is trash. Eze is a bit kid who will never start in the league. All are FULLA-you know what players.
As for JJ Putz, the injury he had could not be diagnosed unless Putz admitted to being injured, which he never did. You should learn a little something before jumping the gun. Nobody checks for bone spurs unless you’re claiming to be in pain. That’s not part of the routine arm check and PLENTY play through the pain. If you were an athlete @ one time, you might know if you had a spur.
PR isn’t a state, AGEE, therefore it DOES fall under international scouting. Omar Minaya DID have a hand in the scouting. You should take the time to piece together the PUDGE/IGOR connections, since they are…ready for this???….PUERTO RICANS!!!!
They gave up their 2007 #1 selection in a weak draft. Maybe Omar knew the draft STUNK? Ever think of that? Or maybe he did, because the Mets were contenders! With a plethora of young outfielders @ his call (Milledge, Gomez and Endy) Omar presumed 80-100 games of Alou was worth the move. Nobody expected ALL of them to go down with injuries.
As for Castillo, nobody knew he was done in 2007, so cut the BS out. If we didn’t suffer season ending injuries to Maine and Wagner, we win the East by 5 games in 2008 and fans like yourself aren’t OBSESSING over Castillo. Your obsession with Alou is ridiculous. Once again, Omar, nor any GM, is planning for damned draft picks when the team is on the verge of playoff baseball. Omar’s unique drafting and scouting abilities more than made up for the loss of a WORTHLESS draft pick in 2007 for signing Alou.
The job wasn’t too big for Omar. The Wilpons got slammed by Madoff and the checkbook was closed after 2008. In 2009, Maine and Perez, who were supposed to be key components to our rotation for years to come, suddenly went down to injury. They would never return to form. The rotation was supposed to be Maine, Perez, Pelfrey and Santana. How convenient of you to spit up some nonsense rotation based on scrubs instead of reality. Dillon Gee makes this rotation in 2009 had he not blown out his arm. He was pitching fantastic baseball. Gee, a 2007 Omar Minaya draft selection. Niese was pitching well when he ALSO went down via injury. Jon Niese a 2005 Omar Minaya draft pick in the 6th round. It was NOT worse. In your biased eyes, of course it was. Omar was been killed by the injury bug. His top pitching prospects (Niese and Gee) and his everyday guys (Fernando Martinez and Reese Havens) had been besieged by injuries. It takes 4 years at least for international kids to come through the system. Martinez would have been here a long time ago. Reese as well. That’s why I believe the Mets are hexed. Omar did a fantastic job as Met GM. The system has some solid talent. No, it doesn’t appear to have Hall of Fame talent, but one never knows who is lurking below.
Look @ Gee and Niese. Opposing teams LOVE these guys. Pelfrey doesn’t have the stomach to succeed in NYC I think. Ike looks more than solid. Ruben Tejada is the epitome of a smart player. The kid makes ALL the plays. Thole isn’t a star, but he isn’t a bum. Same for Murphy. Murphy’s problem is he is a natural 3B. Omar knew what he was doing. He was fantastic for us. It’s sucks that we have a total LOSER running our draft now. Dark ages could be coming soon, unless Omar Minaya’s kids from 2006-2010 arrive to save our asses.
I’ll give you this Jimmy, if that ultimate moron Duquette doesn’t trade Kazmir Omar pulls it off in 2006 and at the least gets us to the post season in 2007 and 2008 and maybe doesn’t go nuts, gets some breathing room but it still crashes because what prospect flow he did provide dried up. Look at it this way, seven years after minaya took over Josh Thole is our starting catcher and we had to get two injury rehab projects for the rotation, nine new guys for the pen and try out 4 different guys at 2B and the only reason we have a RFer is because Beltran can’t play CF anymore.
I really wonder what the plan would have been for year eight.
He leaves the team and farm better than it was when he got here for sure, the only GM since Mcilvaine who can make that claim but two straight years under .500 and next to nothing in AAA and not much in AA.
I’m glad I didn;t make that bet.
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Didn’t have time to wait for Vargas? Why not? He was healed and healthy and pitched in the Majors in 2009. He couldn’t have been stashed in AAA for the inevitable injuries or as insurance for Redding or Livan? Please.
I know perfectly well Juan and Ivan are Puerto Ricans, signed before PR became a part of the draft. Why it did I have no idea but I know Puerto Ricans became subject to the rule 4 in 1990. I’m also aware that PR is not a state and people speak Spanish but thanks for pointing out the obvious.
No #1 draft pick is worthless for a team always scrapping around for 5-10 players every year. Mike Stanton wouldn’t have been better in LF than Jason Bay? Jordan Zimmerman couldn’t make our rotation? Omar couldn’t have used something to use in a trade? And how would he know in November that next June’s draft was gonna suck? He could have had an idea but how could he know for sure and just give the pick away?
Everyone knew Putz was injured in 2008. That’s why his walks and ERA zoomed in 2008 and why he was pitching in the minors and bone spurs can be detected by MRI’s I know first hand after one caught and ripped everything in my shoulder. Putz himself said the Mets never even asked him about injuries until ST and then STILL sent him to the WBC. Very smart. And trading Endy? With Murphy in LF? Oh I just knew you were going to defend that one.
The injuries hurt but they really just exposed the complete lack of depth that we had. Minaya had nothing in Buffalo in 2009 just in case and I never said the job was too big for Omar, I said it was too big for anyone if your handicapped by slot restrictions and trying to win now with guys on their last legs and do a full scale rebuild of the entire farm system.
He could have done a great job if he devoted a lot more of his time, energy and resources on the farm rather signing so many dinosaures.
I think you should get off the Medalia light.
I think you’ve been on the Medalia light for too long Jimmy.
T AGEE- Are you on drugs? Vargas was coming off major surgery in 2009 and you wanted to build a staff around an unproven damaged arm owning soft tossing lefty? As I said before, the Mets had many more pitchers in the system. Stop your incessant whining about a man who STILL has not pitched 200 innings in a season and has TO THIS DAY a mere 22 wins under his belt.
Once again, the Alou pick was WORTHLESS. It was the 29th pick and there were no selections in the entire 1st rd including the supplemental selections that made pro ball or are even close to becoming prospects. The draft pick was MEANINGLESS in a WEAK draft. The problem here is you don’t realize the Mets could have drafted these players. Omar chose to go with pitching. He drafted Kunz and Vineyard instead. If you think he didn’t draft Stanton or Zimmerman because of the Alou move, you’re wrong. He had the picks if he wanted because via losing Bradford and Hernandez.
As for Putz, you’re wrong. Nobody knew about his bone spurs. Putz kept his injury quiet, because he was looking forward to cashing in his option year if he could pitch well. He chose not to, because had he opened his mouth, it would have devalued him. Pointless, because his arm blew up. NO physical examination checks for bone spurs. They’re common in pitchers and some play through the discomfort. Trading Endy with the prospects we had was necessary. Who cares about Endy Chavez?
Uh, you’re wrong about any lack of depth in the Met farm. In 2009, there isn’t a farm in baseball that was ready to replace 4 All-Stars. To expect a team to do so is nuts and not rational thinking.
The Mets didn’t employ dinosaurs. They had a few vets in Alou, Duque and Franco, but the starting lineups were a good mix of the and of young studs in their prime.
Stop whining about Omar. The dark ages are here. You’re going to regret his departure.
JIMMY, I didn’t say build a staff around Vargas, I said why did he have to be included in that trade. We had nothing in AAA. We didn’t have to include everyone Seattle wanted, they were already getting what they wanted from Cleveland. He was a 26 year old LH starting pitcher and our rotation included Livan, Redding, Maine and Perez and was backed by Figgy, Misch, Nieve and Parnell. I just don’t see how it makes sense to strip away so much from an already weak minor league system.
You know your going to need players down the road. If not this year then next or the year after. Minaya had already traded lots of guys in the Delgado, Santana and Schneider/Church deals. For a team that had so little when he got here to remove so many guys was too much, especially for one guy who was on minor league rehab the year before and who’s BB’s and ERA were up and appearances down. And then let him pitch high stress innings in March?
Endy would have given the Murphy experiment it’s only chance to succeed. Reed was a huge downgrade, Green was too from Smith, Carp was emergency AAA for Delgado, Cleto and Carerra were really young guys with some potential.
Minaya had to be adding to the minors, not taking away from them. The answer was more prospects, more competition. Doing more of the things he was good at. If your handing over #1 and #2 draft choices then your taking away the very thing that Minaya was good at. We’ll never know but it is more likely than not SF DOESN’T offer Alou arbitration (why risk adding 10M to the payroll while your chasing Zito?) so we get Alou and a #1 draft choice.
What could Omar have done with that pick? Who knows but it’s better than just giving it away. All he had to do was wait a week and at least find out. Just give it away?
Maybe he drafts Stanton with the pick and then doesn’t sign Bay. Maybe he drafts Travis D’Anaurd and someday we can get off the catching merry go round. Maybe we have Tommy Hunter or Jordan Zimmerman in our rotation or he selects Freddie Freeman and instead of Ike in 2008 has Jamile Weeks or Giavatella in the mix for us at 2B this year or maybe he just gets someone that helps him make a good trade. He did make a few of them you know. Just giving it away eliminates any chance and is the absolute last thing this team needed. That pick was hardly worthless to anyone. I can’t believe your defending just giving it away. All he had to do was wait a week and at least try to keep it.
Then we go and draft for need. College relief pitchers, follow that up with trading Wagner’s two #1 picks for a DH. All these were Wilpon money moves I would guess but it’s moves like this that cause us to always have to go FA for so many needs every year which just keeps the whole thing going.
Who was the last catcher we developed who made an All Star team? The Braves have had a few including McCann. We couldn’t draft McCann because Phillips signed David Weathers. I was expecting this kind of short sighted approach would end when Omar when got here.
Last year the Braves signed two IFA catchers. By that time the wallet was empty, the chips were all moved to the middle and the bet was placed on Bay. Busted. Omar could have and should have done better. Maybe no one could with the impatient and naive Wilpon’s only thought being this years ticket sales but Omar had the ability and the know how to get this thing figured out once and for all and keep it going and yet here we are.
Obviously we’re not going to agree on this and like I’ve said Minaya did a lot of good things here and we’ll never know to what extent the Wilpon hampered him (I would guess severely) but he could have gotten better results from identifying guys that weren’t big stars, didn’t cost a lot, didn’t clog up the roster, getting good or even decent play out of them while building a powerhouse farm system that would have had us in competition for a decade or longer.
He was our best chance at building a real team able to withstand injuries, which every team suffers through, getting us the best talent and having those players in their prime with us, instead of someone else and get and keep this team solid for the long run.
You just can’t go for it at the expense of future years, every single year or it’s gonna crash. Your gonna run out of players and that’s what happened.