Cashen was run out of town by the Wilpons…

who do u think orchestrated the Kevin Mitchell for vanilla wafer safe and quiet Kevin McReynolds?

2 points if u said Fred Wilpon ….

turns out K-Mitch spit champagne in their faces during the WS celebration…they turned around and traded him…later they leaked a BS story to the press that he was a “bad influence” on Doc and Straw…

Doc and Straw and Mcllavaine all said this was pure b.s.

the problem has been the wilpons…

no ifs ands or buts about it

IT’S SO ILLOGICAL AS TO BE MUCH MUCH MORE CONVOLUTED THAN U OR I PRESUME. PER THAE NYer ARTICLE AT ONE POINT FRED HAD WHAT HE BELIVED WAS NEARLY $1B IN LIQUID ASSETS FOR STERLING USAGE 500M WITH BERINE & 400M WITH STERLING-STAMOS.

IN TRUTH, FOR AS LONG AS IS RELATIVE TO CURRENCY THIS FRANCHISE WE LOVE HAS BEEN INEPT IN DEALING WITH DRAFT PICKS, I CERTAINLY CAN SOMEWHAT UNDERSTAND FRED’S CONCERNS WHEN U HAVE TO PRESUME HE WAS BEING TOUTED ON THE ABNERS, ESCOBARAS, PEYTONS & MARTINEZES LONG BEFORE WE EVER HEARD THEIR NAMES OF WHICH HE CAN COUNT ON ONE MITTENED HAND HOW MANY MADE A DIFFERENCE FOR US COMBINE THAT WITH PHILLIPS’ MISGUIDANCE VIS A VIS R&D INVESTING & U JUST MAY FIND WHY WE’VE FAILED SO BADLY, UNLESS FRED IS DEMANDING TYHESE ANSWERS U R STILL RAMMING THE STEEL DOOR WITH YOUR HEAD. AS TO YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT 3-4 YRS WAS THE BEST OUTLOOK FOR THESE HIGH PRICED MERCENARIES, I BEG TO DIFFER AS THE HIGHEST PRICES WERE PAID TO BELTRAN & SANTANA TWO PLAYERS @ 28,29 YRS OLD, CERTAINLY WITH A TALENT LEVEL & HISTORICAL RECORD THAT SHOULD’VE WITHSTTOD STRONGER TESTS OF THEIR PRODUCTIVITY DELIVERIES. THE QUICK ACQUIESCENCE TO SLOT RESTRICTIONS IS NOT CAUSATIONAL BY ANY MEANS; BUT CERTAINLY AN INDICATOR AS TO HOW DEEPLY THE ROT HAD DEVELOPED ESP AFTER [PHILLIPS’ RECOMMENDED SIGNING UP LOYALY!
IF U REAlly want to truly uncover the one who screwed us fans the most? i suggest it was the beloved architect of our greatest success, Frank Cashen who failed to properly train a successor capable of assumuing his chair @ his retirement dinner. At the time when queried about his successor being amiong his sr. assistants Harazin & Phillips, he was quick to point out their unreadiness as one “knew talent”*HARRAZIN) while the other mastered in contracts & procedures(PHILLIPS) We’ve been F’d with halfbaked solutions/plans ever since…

Here we had, at the same time, an owner with money who was willing to spend it and a GM who was able to both build for now and later. Why almost all of the money had to go into the now where we got a 3-4 year window at best, followed by yet another crash, as opposed to later where we could have had a competitive team every single year with just a little tinkering for years and years to come is just not acceptable to me. This is now the third time we have crashed under that business model.

One of the things about the baseball business plan the Wilpon’s are following is that they point to the payroll when they talk about how much they want to win, but what flies under the radar, and has for years, is the chincing out of the very thing that would make the difference between consistently winning or continuing to lose.

We can talk about “slotting guideline’s” forever but you know ’62. The NY Mets under Wilpon since 1987, long before slotting guidelines came out, were the cheapest team in the draft. There are no slotting guidelines at all in the international market.

Just for example. Every single international free agent is available to every single team. It just comes down to scouting, developing and the owners commitment. You have no concerns about whether a guy will be drafted before you get to pick, whether you can sign him, whether you’ll go over slot or anything else.

You simply have to identify the best talent, then sign it, and develop it. No problems. Even with Omar who’s truest expertise and previous non GM experience all centered around the International free agent market. Sosa, Gonzalez, Rodriguez, Reyes. These are the players Omar has been linked to. Why, with him ensconsed as GM for six years would we have only one big year of spending on IFA’s and the rest right back at the bottom of the league.

Why would a team in a large market, with the three best consecutive years of attendance (2006-2008) in team history pull in the reigns like this? Because their commitment is less than firm because they can get away with it and still point to the big box office splash every January that doesn’t do **** and everybody thinks, hey these guys are putting up the money, they must want to win, but clearly their not putting up the money. Their putting it up in the most visable area and cheaping out where it would do the most good because it’s less visable and they can get away with it.

Even Harvey last year was drafted higher than expected because they came to an understanding on price. Now he’s doing great no question about it but here’s the thing. The draft and prospects in general are so tough to get right on a consistent basis when you have to eliminate the surer bets it just makes your ultimate results TEN times less likely.

If we had an owner who spent no money would it be fair to point that out? Back in the De Roulet years it was pointed out constantly. It was wrong then and it is wrong today. The fact that the Wilpon is hiding behind the slotting guideline is false. They were doing it before and their still doing it in the IFA arena where there are no guidelines.

The Franchise is a shell of what it should be. No kid born in the last 20 years wears a Met Hat. Their all NYY fans. Our favorite team has been run into the ground by owner incompetence and by their skinflint ways all the while posturing about how much they’ve spent on payroll. They even have a sizable, extremely gullible and naive minority of the fan base convinced that only the spending on the Major League roster matters. That you can just go out and get whoever you want to play every position you need every single year and they’ll all be great. That’s not the way it works ’62.

I would think that the Mets on field incompetence, spanning the entire Wilpon error, placed under examination would reveal nothing less than a shell game. 3 card monte. Bait and switch. A Box office Barnum. And I just don’t see the need to keep it quiet.

I think most fans would be in an uproar if the team they spend money and invest emotion in was purposely and actively making it so much more difficult to accomplish their stated goal…….. Unless that isn’t the real goal, which in that case why stay quiet about it?

BY CONTRAST, YOU CONSISTANTLY HARP UPON THE REULTS BEING UNACCEPTABLE, BLAMING POWERLESS OFFICIALS WORKING ON RESETTING A COURSE; BUT DEALING WITH A TOTALLY IMMOVABLE RUDDER(BISMARK LIKE) U CONSISTANTLY MOURN OVER LOST PROSPECTS WHO COULD NEVER BE SIGNED WHILE STEERINMG IN CIRCLES “FULLSPEED AHEAD”" IS THE ORDER OF THE DAY

T, AT ONE POINT U NEED TO STOP BASHING YOUR HEAD INTO THAT STEEL DOOR PROTECTING A FAMILY HAPPY WITH THE APPEARANCE OF PROVIDING EXCEPTIONALISM.
UNTIL MLB BECOMES A CAPITALISTICLY RUN INDUSTRY THAT ALLOWS FREE & OPEN TRANSFERS OF POWER RATHER THAN LIKE AN EXCLUSIVE MEMBERSHIP COUNTRY CLUB WHERE INEPT LEADERSHIP AS IN FLUSHING,PITTSBURGH, MIAMI WILL CONTINUE UNABATED. CVERTAINLY FANS CAN EXERCISE THE RIGHT TO RENOWNCE THEIR FANDOM BY BVOYCOTTING THESE TEAMS’ PRODUCTS,SERVICES IN AN ATTEMPT TO FORCE LIQUIDATION BY UNFAVORABLE OWNERSHIP; HOWEVER CONTROL OF A SUCCESSOR IS FAR FROM BEING PASSED TO THE BEST HEELED, MOST COMPETITIVELY MINDED STATUS QUO CHALLENGER; BUT TO ONLY ONE DEEMED ACCEPTABLE BY THOSE DEDICATED TO DEFEAT THE ACCEPTED CANDIDATE, HIS SO CALLED COMPETITORS NOT HIS SUPPORTERS(FANS,CONSTITUANTS)

T, IT’S TIME TO ACCEPT THAT JUST AS SELIG CHOSE OUR GM, HE WILL JUST AS ASSUREDLY CHOOSE OUR WILPON SUCCESSOR, IF HE ALLOWS ONE.
BE IT AS IT MAY I PREFER THE DEVIL I KNOW DESPITE HIS HORNS & TAIL TO THE ONE I DON’T AS IT JUST MAY RESULT IN A CORPORATE DISINTERESTED PURCHASER.
ASSIGNING PROFIT MARGINS INSTEAD OF W%.

and thats what they are on this team…so far this year our LF/CF/3B/1B have all been injured…thats half of our position players…so yeah…pridie/turner are great for org depth…no one thought otherwise

Yeah we traded Wendell Farley for Alou!

How have we gotten along without him?

Why didn’t a talent evaluator not PREDICT Alou’s injury problems?

Because he is a GM not a doctor or soothsayer, he goes by the numbers the guy put up?

I guess Sandy was wrong to not have someone in place for David Wright and that he should have predicted it and shipped him off too?

The pick you so gloriously wave as the Banner of Omar’s stupidity netted the Giants Wendell Farley dude!

It was also the 29th pick in that round!
So NO you wouldn’t have gotten anytyhing good there unless you were LUCKY and some 2nd round guy did more than ANYONE expected!

They gave away the pick next to DEAD LAST in the first round for Alou!

And OH my according to you the frnachise was RUINED because of it…A franchise at the time was IN or CLOSE TO the playoffs three years running and trying to get that little extra to put them over the top!

Mazzili was traded for Darling and Terrill.

Terrill was traded for Hojo

Bob Bailor was traded for Sid.

The three trades were forward thinking trades. We traded guys FROM the Majors FOR guys in the minors. Smart move but we haven’t done that in years because we can’t afford to take anything off the Major League roster in order to get better……in a couple of years.

Everything is always about THIS YEAR despite true evidence that sometimes we would be better served to sell high and set ourselves up for the future.

Very good thought process behind those trades because the biggest reason teams win is they have the best talent, all at the same time. Adding 2/5 of your future rotation and a 3rd basemen to our already growing talent base was a very smart idea.

I’m not sure what your point is here Metsie but I don’t care if their drafted or someone else drafts them as long as we have the most talented players, lots of them and all in their prime. That’s the secret. Don’t let it out.

It didn’t effect the baseball team? We couldn’t have drafted a good player with it? If Omar was that good I’m sure we just threw away a good player and you just claim it was a baseball move? Explain to us how that baseball move makes sense?

If Omar was such a good talent evaluator why didn’t he evaluate the possibility that Alou at 40 might be hurt as often as the Alou of 25 and that the draft pick might be a much better investment.

If Omar was such a great talent evaluator he could have signed Jayson Werth that same off season for 1/10 the price with no loss of draft choice.

Isn’t it the job of the GM to evaluate how players will produce going forward?

Of course I’m aware of how we got Davis. I was writing about it just today. Everyone knows how we got him.

He’s made all the plays in CF, hit a few timely HR’s, remained healthy and isn’t GMJ. but let’s be serious, if your pointing to Jason Pridie as the example of a good farm system I think you’ve pretty much made the opposite point. Plus I don’t know that you can really claim him for our farm anyway. You claimed Smoltz was traded for (he was) so he doesn’t count as a product of the Braves system and Pridie even made his debut with Minn. Smoltz never played for anyone but the Braves. Of course Smoltz was never DFA’d by anyone either.

Was Darling Drafted by us?
Was Backman?
Was Hojo?
Was fernandez?

Seems it only matters if they were drafted when it’s Omar getting the credit and EVERYONE gets the credit when their name isn’t OMAR!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Major_League_Baseball_Draft

Noted on the bottom of the page!
We did it to get a CLOSER!

In 2007 we got Alou and why did we do that? Because Cameron was a mess after colliding with Beltran! Again! We were in a PLAYOFF RACE!

Did you happen to KNOW that Ike Davis was a 1st round PICKUP compensatory pick in 2008 for Atlanta signing Glavine away from us? Did that FACTOR into your waste quotient and Omar WASTED moves?

WE WERE IN A PLAYOFF RACE those three years. That is precisely the TIME to buy and give up picks to get the guys who can take you to the WS!

It is what Oakland NEVER DID despite how good they adhered to your system and competitive they were, which is why THEY NEVER WON a WS!

We then gave away another 1st rounder for Rodriguez because the closer we had got hurt!

You can complain about the Alou pick all you want. It was a BUSINESS mistake more than a BASEBALL mistake!
And no one ever said Omar was a good businessman what we said was he was a good evaluator of talent and is the guy who can pick winners when given a good draft position and opportunity to get at the talent.

And it doesn’t matter how good you do any of that unless your one of the 10 worst teams in baseball at the time they are in the draft!

Phillies had the 11th pick in the 96 draft Passed on Rollins and took Adam Eaton instead Got Rollins in the 2nd Round…Good? Or Lucky?

Phillies had the 4th Pick in the 2001 Draft, Took Gavin Floyd passing on Teixeira and Howard Wouldn’t take Howard until the 5th round. Good? OR LUCKY?

They were 5th in our Division the same year we were playing the Subway World Series!

Maybe thats why they have the Howards and Rollins’ on their team, Cause they sucked since 1994!

PROVE IT!

If they continue to do what they are doing they WILL be top shelf!
If they FAIL to keep doing what they are doing it will depend on how long they don’t do it!

You know you all love Moneyball but yet when the MONEYBALL DESIRABLE is staring you in the face you refuse to see it!

By signing him before we just ensured that they would get our draft choice.

What spin can you put on us signing Alou and giving away the first round draft choice without at the very least, waiting a week to see if we could keep our pick?

Thats why!

That same year we gave the Giants our 1st round pick for 100 games of a 40 year old LFer. Stupid.

The two sure things if done competently and religously will provide a steady prospect flow over a period of time. Some years more, some years less, some years nothing but taken over a ten year period will provide you with the best years of some of the best players,

The other sure bet is the IFA market. No draft needed here, every amateur is available to every team. No concerns about “going over slot” You can simply extract as many top shelf amateurs as you want.

Your only really limited by the quality of your scouts, development people and your own committment.

Our committment has been far less than total in these areas and that is why we consistently have a mid 20′s rated farm.

By having the largest payroll we are able to bump our results above mid 20 (out of 30) but only really to about 10th-20th or so unless Florida supplies us with some of their best players and the rest of the NL/NL East tanks for a year or two.

The farm, IFA and draft are all you can count on (overall, not a particular prospect) Some FA’s pan out other don’t. Non-Tenders, Rule 5, waiver wire acquisitions ect. are available only because they are perceived to have something wrong with them and in fact most of them do. The one you like the most might be at an area of strength. With a good farm though everyone is potentially available through trade.

Why would we handcuff ourselves like this?

First of all we didn’t even draft them.

Second of all I never said they were worthless. I think they were great pickups. Great thought process. Upgrade AAA without costing anything. Good move but the idea that two guys who were cut by their team and passed through the entire AL before we claimed them makes us a good farm system is just insane.

It means we made a couple of wise, well thought out decisions that didn’t hamper payroll, clog up a roster spot and gave ourselves a chance to get something for nothing.

Not that we have a top 10 farm.