2
2011
Let Pelfrey Benefit From Some Time In Triple-A
An article by 
Everyone knows how terribly Mike Pelfrey has performed at Citizens Bank Park. The Phillies have teed off on him and have produced at a 1.10 OPS clip against him. Pelfrey has a 9.55 ERA at CBP and a 2.15 WHIP. As Bob Klapisch of The Record wrote, “this is where Pelfrey’s sinkers have historically met their doom”.
Pelfrey had been battling the flu only a day before his scheduled start and manager Terry Collins was planning to go with Dillon Gee, but he was talked out of it by Pelf.
“I don’t want people to think I’m afraid to pitch here,” Pelfrey said, according to the manager.
“It’s not just about you,” Collins responded. “If you get your butt beat, it affects 24 other guys, too. Think about that.”
Pelfrey said he understood, but insisted he was ready to contain the first-place Phillies. Collins relented, against his better judgment.
Then last night happened. Terry Collins gambled on Pelfrey and rolled snake eyes. Now Collins must figure out how to beat three Cy Young award winners in the next four games; Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee and Tim Lincecum.
The trade talk for Pelfrey has already been rampant for some time. Many believed that the Mets should have sold high this Winter, but with Johan Santana already on the shelf and two other spots to fill in the rotation, Sandy Alderson hung onto him. Now with his value at a career low, trading him is probably not a consideration. But what about having him recharge hit batteries at Triple-A Buffalo?
Ironically, Pelfrey’s numbers (7.39 ERA, 1.96 WHIP) are worser than Oliver Perez’ 2009 numbers (6.82 ERA, 1.92 WHIP) when Ollie was asked to go to the minors and refused. They are worse than Ollie’s numbers in 2010 too.
Oliver Perez was yanked from the starting rotation after five starts - almost two years to the day, May 2, 2009. He was banished to the bullpen after refusing to go to the minors.
Mike Pelfrey is now at the same crossroads as Perez after six starts.
Like Ollie at the time, he is 27 years old – too old to be considered promising, and too young to give up entirely. It’s also the age when you start to realize a player is what he is.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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When we set ou to find a number 4 or 5 starter this offseason, the new front office failed to realize we already had two; Mike Pelfrey and Jon Niese. They needed a number 2 starter more than anything plus the hope that their ace Santana would be back by July. They played it all wrong and totally miscalculated the value of Mike Pelfrey.
I don’t agree with this.
I believe the FO knew, as many of us fans did, that we needed a strong #2, bare minimum.
We also knew we weren’t getting one of those without doing it via a trade. I got the impression the new FO was unwilling to part with what precious prospects we do have for the 50/50 shot we had of competing this year. So they got what they could with the limited $$ they had to spend, holding on to those prospects.
I also don’t think many have any illusions about Santana coming back later this year with an eye towards making a difference this year.
Any Met fan that had a different mindset, I don’t believe read it right.
If it was just Pelfrey who was having issues it would be one thing.
But the entire pitching staff seems flat with the exception of the two guys who came up from the Minors for spot starts.
We know what pelfrey SHOULD be able to do I just don’t know why Warthen can’t seem to get through to him.
Warthen has to start taking some responsibility for these guys. I know they are comfortable with him as the PC but you have start asking, should they really be comfortable?
I am sure the next move by the FO will be to send Pelfrey down to send another message to the rest of the rotation and put Gee in there for awhile.
But you have to wonder if sending Pelfrey down to the Minors will help why would it help?
Is it because we have a better pitching coach in Buffalo?
Or is it merely because he will face “WORSER” (Sorry Joe couldn’t resist! LOL) talent and what Pelfrey needs is false confidence?
Yes it is too soon to actually fire Warthen but I just don’t know why he does not go out to the mound and tell Pelf what he is doing wrong.
Hands off approach works when you have good pitchers who know what they are trying to do.
Pelfrey seems to just go out there wait for a sign and throw, with no actual plan or strategy to work from. And the one who is supposed to get him to do that is the Pitching coach!
Pelfrey is doing so many bad things out there I don’t know where to begin.
He ignores runners on first and is so slow to the plate a walk is as good as a double against him.
He nibbles and has an aversion to the strike zone until he is behind and then throws fat strikes.
His approach seems more like Please don’t hit this than the required I dare you to hit this approach of the better pitchers in the league.
Just look at Livan Hernandez. I mean he threw what he wanted and pretty much dared the batter to hit it and they didn’t!
Pelfrey problems would appear to be all in the head and the only one who can fix that is the Pitching Coach.
he should be going out there and talking to Pelfrey more often. Riggleman went to talk to his pitcher more in one game than Warthen has gone out there since the season started.
And if it was just Pelfrey that was having issues I would name Warthen but Niese, Dickey, Capuano and even Young (although that was probably just rust) have all had issues with consistency and location.
It’s easy to say THROW strikes but if they are not doing it then you have to go the next step and go over thier mechanics.
Inconsistency is largely due to inconsistent mechanics and that is what the PC is supposed to stay on top of!
I have not seen any evidence of him doing that, has anyone else?
Metsie, are u kidding with this clap?
“Pelfrey problems would appear to be all in the head and the only one who can fix that is the Pitching Coach.
he should be going out there and talking to Pelfrey more often. Riggleman went to talk to his pitcher more in one game than Warthen has gone out there since the season started.
And if it was just Pelfrey that was having issues I would name Warthen but Niese, Dickey, Capuano and even Young (although that was probably just rust) have all had issues with consistency and location.”
Firast off, ever hear the saying about leading horses to drink? Pelfrey must BELIEVE in Pelfrey. That his good games are not fortunate,; but his due. You can’t turn a low-esteem individual into the egocentric top end individual needed to be a dominant MLB SP. At least, not without labotomizing him, Warhen & most PCs are not qualified for dealing with this maladjusted, responsibility shirking(insists cather calls ALL pitches, no responsibility for more than executing minimal pitch mechanics..
A true frontend SP believes his talent is greater than the talent in the batter’s box, no questions asked.
Back in the late 80s, early 90s a very talented SP on the Braves had difficulty dealing with stressful pitching situations & maintaing his impeccable control while also dealing with anxiety difficulties anticipating future difficult situations, so much so that as the Braves were odds on favored to appear in the playoffs as the Weastern Division champion to face Bonds’ East Division Champoion Pitates, this pitcher’s anxiety issues increased to nearly unbearable proportions as he envisioned failure for himself in the upcoming series. The Braves sought to alleviate his issues through hypnotic treatments whereby the post-trance suggestions allowed the pitcher to dismiss his misgivings & pitch as he had throughout the season under normal circumstances, As it turned out the pitcher was scheduled to go in the crucial Game 7; in Pittsburgh, a mid series treatment to re-enforce the positive suggestions was completed, the Braves made special arraingenments to ensure a special seat was procured for the therapist directly behind the plate where his especially selected distinctive hat could be viewed easily from the mouund, as it was revealed afterward, the suggestion enabled a little bit extra from the pitcher once he viewed the reassuring chapeau. By now u may have deduced that, once struggling with self doubts, pitcher was a young stud John Smoltz. since those playoffs, I do not believe that distinctinve headwaear has been seen. I’m no psychology expert; but I believe a similar plan should be explored for Pelfrey, who,I believe, has yet to hook on with a replacement for his entrusted personal sports psychologist who passed away this past offseason.
I’m also concerned that a demotion to AAA may completely shatter whatever meager selfconfidence Pelfrey possesses as we lose him forever.
I don’t recall if there was any disruption of Smoltz’ rotation schedule during his inSeason treatment program.
Well 62 all I am trying to get accross is it is the PC’s job to train and get these guys to do what they are supposed to do.
Unless he is screaming from the dugout that I don’t know about Warthen seems to have no inclination to take a walk out there when his pitcher gets in trouble!
That is either because the PC has no clue what is wrong or because the PC thinks it wouldn’t help anyway!
And it if is the latter then he should at least make the walk to the Managers office and say this guy doesn’t have it!
Just look at Isringhausen last night.
Did you see the problems in his motion that was causing him to throw two pitches so far outside the Catcher would need a fishing pole net to reach them?
Isn’t that something the PC should go out there and talk about? See if the guy is hurting maybe?
When you hire someone to watch over your factory machines and the machines start going haywire you don’t expect that guy to sit idle and say “It’s ok the machines will work it out in a few more runs”
No you expect him to stop the assembly line, make an adjustment to what is going haywire and if it’s still broke switch to a new machine.
Warthen doesn’t do that!
Metsie, do u really read your own posts? do u really believe these pitcher’s are as simple to adjust as your showerhead or the idle on your car? Perhaps, I’m just exampling, they expected Izzy to possibly have trouble; but Izzy reassured them he could handle it, do u really believe Izzy’s going to be responsive to a visit to ask, “are u sure u can handle this tonight?” Metsie, the entire season doesn’t rely upon an individual pitching performance in a single game; but it does rest upon a pitching staff’s ability to self adjist in game, in AB. It’s completely within my realm of possibility that perhaps Izzy’s elbow was barking, in a normal unalarming fashion for a vet who was suddenly thrust into a regular workload routine after over a season of idleness. Remember, Izzy expects to pitch with discomfort & is willing to go as long as needed even if his arm falls off. He is far removed from any guidance a workhorse like Warthen could likely share, I doubt any “revelations” would be forthcoming, this isn’t Hershieser ot Stotlemyer going out there with pearls of unrealized experiences to share with such a grizled vet. Metsie, obviously I have no special knowledge; but I’m merely speculating on a possibility which rings truer to me than this PC who was supported be retained by the preponderance of the staff is just plain lazy or uncaring, if nothing else I’d expect TC to order his ass out there if he thought it’d mean anything other than a cosmetic appearance. I’d also suspect their not wanting to disrupt Izzy’s process with a ‘timeout’. It’s not as if we needed to create time for additional pen warmups. Wondering, if Alderson has kicked himself for not trying harder to get Feliciano to agree to a 1y + possible option as who knows what may or may not have happened had he remained?
62 perhaps YOU should read MY OWN posts instead of glancing over the meaning…
I said he should go out there to see if there was an issue with his Elbow because his release point was WAY WAY Late and he was missing the plate by a mile. The PC is supposed to check to see if the guy is hurt but not saying something because he wants to keep being a major leaguer!
As is it simple to adjust a Pitcher? NO!
But if you can’t isn’t it the job of the PC to say this guy is not it lets get someone else?
And finally let me ask you this…
You think Warthen is dong a great job here?
If so explain why because the team ERA would say otherwise!
If it’s not the job of the PC to fix the problems with our Pitchers then whose job is it?
Derek Lowe just got arrested for a DUI in Atlanta, a so called squaky clean franchise. Atlanta has a lot of pitching depth and might be intrigued in some kind of deal for a Lowe/Pelfrey deal if maybe we could add another player as a sweetener? Just a crazy thought. The Braves tried to move this guy last year but couldn’t make a trade and he has one year left on a 4 year 60 million contract.
The only similarity between Pelfrey and Perez is that they both breathe oxygen and reside on the same planet. Pelfrey is in a slump but as he showed last season is capable of pitching like a stud at the top of the rotation. Pelfrey isnt the only pitched Ryan Howard abuses, just ask Gee.
Can you tell me when this guy’s slump started? 2009,2010,2011? Just curious?
pelfrey just don’t get it.he deosn’t understand what it takes to get players out on a consistant basis,especially the NL east.he throws the same pitches to the same spots over and over again,the league knows what he is going to throw.he needs better secondary pitches to be effective, he just doesn’t have them right now.
“Pelfrey is in a slump but as he showed last season is capable of pitching like a stud at the top of the rotation.”
Greg Pomes, is that you?
Watching Pelfrey Pitch reminds me of the days I used to watch Pat Zachary pitch.
All the tools to be an ace but none of the heart and head and unless you staked him an early lead so he could calm down and focus he usually got rocked and flustered.
He is a borderline headcase.
This is a classic case of the tools are there the lights are on but no one is home!
I”ll take 15 game winning, 200+ inng pitcher any day of the week.
Pelfrey has not been pitching well but to simply cast him aside is just plain dopey. People’s answer to a major league 15 game winning 3.7 era 200+ inngs pitcher’s performance problems is to throw him away and start over w/another pitcher? Really? Is Dillan Gee going to EVER win 15 games in one major league season? Will Dillian Gee even EVER throw 200+ inngs in a major league season? I doubt even Jonathan Niese will ever throw more than 200+ inngs and will very rarely win 15 or more games in a year. Pelrey is a special talent. Pitchers like Pelrey don’t come around all that often. Pelrey is more than worth investing a little bit of time and patience. Pelrey has been getting throw batting orders the first few cycles, its the 3rd and 4th time throew an order when Pelfrey gets hit. That tells us something… Last year Pelfrey found that one pitch that worked.Major teams have adjusted now Pelfrey needs to adjust once again and will need to keep adjusting throughout his carrer I would think. Pelfrey doesn’t have that crazy heavy diving sinker anyone….. at least not for now. So, adjust. In my mind the ability to adjust, to have the ability to “reinvent” yourself as opposing teams/players adjust to you is the difference between being a so-so major leaguer and a very good pitcher.
First off tell me you think Pelfrey is on a pace for 15 Wins?
The problem with pelfrey is he has NO PLAN to adjust to!
If there was a plan then he could change the plan and that would force the other side to adjust to it.
But he has no plan, no method of forcing the batters to do something different.
Last year had added a pitch and that carried him until they adjusted to that pitch.
What is he supposed to do? Add a new Pitch every 6 months?
Or is he supposed to start learning HOW to use those pitches he has and come out with some sort of gameplan to deal with those batters.
If he had one he might be able to do something differently they would have to adjust to.
He does not do that he simply goes to the mound, throws whatever signal is called and hopes it works.
Thats not the path to 15 wins or 200+ innings.
And so far he isn’t going to get close to 15 wins and if he keeps getting knocked out in the 6th inning he is going to need more than 32 games to get those 200+ innings.
And if they keep rocking him out of the box he will be in the Pen by the time the season is over!
Rebuilding teams need to decide whom to trade. Pelfrey and Pagan were the two most tradeable pieces, and the front office slept because they needed to study and study. Now they are both worthless and all the Mets have is salary dumps.
A trip to the minors won’t help Pelfrey. He is clueless. He has no game plan. A month in Buffalo won’t change that. What he had last year were experienced catchers who were perfect for a thoughtless pitcher. Now he has a kid behind the plate, and the newly arrived lazy Ronny Paulino. Teach pelfreyhow to think and you’ll get a steady pitvcher. It won’t happen. He’ll get hot again and then the same old stuff will start again.
What Pelfrey needs is a solid month of personalized training with Seaver. After that, the other remedy is a new pitching coach to replace Warthen. After an intensive training program and mental reprogramming with Tom Terrific followed by a new pitching coach, perhaps Mike will be able to compete in the Majors. Sign a deal with Seaver now and then ship Mike off to California for rehab. Then review options for the new PC. These are 2 problems that need to be faced if any progress is to be made.
There has been so much under-performing and uneven results from the Mets pitchers the last few seasons, that I am wondering if much of it isn’t the pitching coach’s fault. Not only don’t these guys ever seem to grasp how to get hitters out, they have their heads up their asses on the mound too. They don’t hold runners on, they don’t understand game situations, they don’t deal well with adversity. I think getting a talented and professional PC in here could only help these guys.
What is the plan for Pelf in Triple AAA-to boost the average of the minor league guys by 20 points in their batting averages?
No the plan would be to boost his confidence which would appear to be his biggest issue right now.
But I agree that going down to the Minors is not a solution.
What he needs is a pitching coach that can tell him HOW to use his pitches and how to work a batter not just give him false confidence that will quickly go away once he faces the ML again.
He has the pitches and the stuff!
But it takes more than just the tools to be a plumber!
Takes more than just the tools to be a ML pitcher as well!
De Ja Vue. These are the same exact comments about Aaron Heilman. The lesson here is cut your losses now and motor on down the road!
So you think we should just cut him right?
Thats YOUR solution?
Is this a different situation than Perez and Heilman. We seemed to hang onto those guys for eternity until the light went on. I say trade him now if you can get somebody that will help us. Yes that is my solution!
I say Cure Cancer now…
Easy to say but much harder to do!
Who will trade for him with a 7.39 ERA?
What makes you think that if YOU can see he isn’t worth keeping that the other GMs can’t see what you see and pass?
Right now you wouldn’t get a voucher for a Mex burger for him!
So your solution is not a solution it is a pipe dream dependent on there being a idiot or a coma victim in charge of an MLB team to make the deal with.
I’ll fix Pelfrey in no time if Sandy Alderson works out a trade with the Cardinals to acquire Big Pelf.
Enlighten us!
HOW?
How? Have you seen my resume of players I’ve turned around? One in particular is a pitcher we got from Toronto that looked like crap and I turned him into a Cy Young award winning ace. That man is Chris Carpenter. I guarantee you, Mr. Metsie, that I could turn around Pelf and make him a top starter in a year.
hahaha hey dave, why don’t you just come to the Mets?
Well Dave I asked you what you WOULD do not what you have done!
Your reply would tend to indicate that you would tell Pelfrey about what you did with Chris Carpenter and all would be well again with Pelf!
Now you are talking reality here. I think he is tradeable and I will tell you why. Good pitching is on every team’s wish list and there are teams that know ’11 isn’t there yeare (i.e. Astros, Nats, Orioles, K.C., etc) that will see Pelf as a reclamation project and who knows, getting out of the glare of the New York fans and media could turn him around. And I have a feeling that Mike Pelfrey just may welcome a change of scenery.
Yes Good pitching is on every teams wishlist.
You are on record saying Pelfrey isn’t a good pitcher so do you think this is some secret only YOU know?
Do you think his 7+ ERA is a skeleton in some closet and the the rest of the league doesn’t know what you know?
I dont see any reply buttons, but this is for Dave Duncan. Duncan cant turn water into wine or lead into gold. you have to have something to work with and a solid skills set for him to have any chance to get you to perform at a high level. Pelfrey is below average. he is what his 1.55 career whip says he is.
A team wanted Aaron Heilman. We took a chance on Chris Young after an injury plagued career. Javy Vasquez had a bad year with the Bombers last year and he found a new home. I ain’t buying this argument. This is why you have a GM.
Not until he had success as a reliever. No onw wanted him when he was a failed starter.
Same thing for Isringhausen when it comes right down to it.