Dude he gave up 3 Picks, and the one you complain about the most was the NEXT TO LAST pick in the 1st round! A Virtual 2nd Rounder!

WOW you mean we could have had Wendel Farley???!?!??!??!
Oh saints preserve us how did we let such a catch get away??!??!??!

The three were Alou, Wagner and K-Rod but unlike Boston he failed to take back picks when he had a chance. He also didn’t get all that much for the guys he spent first round picks on.

Alou only played 100 games over two years. That wasn’t hard to predict. Wagner pitched 189 innings over four years and blew the NLCS. He wasn’t even available for game 7. He also wasn’t available down the stretch in 2007 or 2008 when the bullpen blew game after game. To give away a #1 pick for a 34 year old is exhibit A of why this team constantly has so many holes to fill every year. So far K-Rod has pitched 150 innings over 2 1/3 years. Two #1 picks for 338 innings just isn’t good value forget about the money diverted that could have been used better elsewhere. No one should have been under the impression that Trachsel, Glavine, Pedro and El-Duque were going to last forever. By 2010 it was obvious to all that Maine and Perez should at most occupy one spot in the rotation, not two. At most.

Selective use of FA should be a part of every big market team’s plan and while Boston does use FA to address needs ther is no denying that they also let guys go and then use those picks to replenish the farm.

NINETEEN extra first or supplemental round picks since 2005 including 20% of their current roster, many more on the way and four not even selected yet is not even close to what we’ve been doing.

We’ve actually given Boston quite a few of those picks. Floyd, Pedro, Wagner, Bay. They’ve all been hurt for long stretches while they were here, they’ve played well at times but none were at the peak of their game as Mets and when they left us we got zippo (unless you count Carter) The Red Sox got three supplemental picks, one first and two 2nd rounders to replenish their farm. That’s a hell of a lot better than zippo.

If your giving up picks one one hand and taking back two on the other, chances are good your not going to run out of players. We have continually run out of players. Had to go out and rush guys up here, settle for whoever’s just hanging around, whoever’s recently been cut. Boston doesn’t have to do that. Cause they have a farm. That’s a big reason why even in an injury plagued year they can still win 89 games in a much tougher division.

We’ve only won 89 games (in a much easier division) four times in 23 years.

Clearly not even close to same thing despite the fact that they have also signed some free agents.

Big difference in results or haven’t you noticed?

all I can do now is just laugh at you Metsie. it has gotten that bad.

Sure! I know your an idiot!

Why didn’t they win in 2005 and 2006 if they knew better than everyone else. What did dumping Damon do for them? Where were all those SUPERSTAR Draft picks they hoarded to take his place?

Hmmm?

If they have been hoarding 1st round picks and doing so well from within then WHY did they have to pay Carford and give up picks?

COULD it be that they are in the exact same situation Omar was in when he went and got Wagner and k-Rod? The ONLY two times he did that?

Answer: YES!
Now spin that all you want but the situations are pretty much the same. Only difference is Omar already had his bats and needed Pitching! His failure was in not also getting the STARTER ACE he needed as well!

what have they done since? um, they won another WS in 2007, that’s all.

Metsie, do you know anything?

A total of 23 extra early round draft choices, NINETEEN of which were first or supplemental round picks.

That’s a lot of talent infused into their farm system and a big reason why they didn’t fold last year when they had record injuries. They still won 89 games in the AL East. It’s also a big reason why their able to go out and pick up a guy like Josh Beckett or Adrian Gonzalez and make it worth acquiring them because their being added to other terrific players they drafted or developed like Lester, Pedroia, Youklis, Lowrie, Buckholtz, Clay, Ellsbury and Bard.

Boston does both. Sign free agents AND let them go for draft picks to replenish their farm system, and then they go OVERSLOT to pick up the best talent available.

Since 2005 they have “lost” the following players. Orlando Cabrerra, Derick Lowe, Pedro Martinez, Johnny Damon, Bill Mueller, Alex Gonzalez, Keith Foulke, Greg Gagne, Billy Wagner, Jason Bay, Adrian Beltre, and Victor Martinez.

This has resulted in Boston having SIX extra 1st round, ELEVEN extra supplemental round, TWO extra 2nd round and ONE extra 3rd round picks.

That’s TWENTY extra early round picks. In that same time frame we’ve had ONE extra First, FOUR Supplemental ONE extra 2nd and One extra 3rd for “losing” Glavine, Bradford, Roberto Hernandez AND Feliciano.

So far we’ve gotten Davis. The Red Sox have gotten Ellsbury, Lowrie, Bucholtz, Bard and Clay.

We’ve also given up Three first rounders, two second rounders and a third rounder for a net defecit of (-2) first rounders (-1) 2nd and (-1) third.

The Red Sox have also surrendered picks but they make sure they take back picks as well and then leverage that advantage with drafting the BEST talent, not the cheapest.

Big BIG difference.

No comparison between the two different philosophies whatsoever.

Yes it is totally appropriate for an Owner to call out his staff when they are not performing.
ESPECIALLY when the business is ATTENDANCE driven and Attendance is driven by team success!

When you 5-13 you have every right to tell the 140 Mil worth of losers how bad they MAY be. Mind you that isn’t what Fred did all he did was NOT HYPE the guys that are here which we users here have UNHYPED for the last three years!

a baseball team does not make money just on personal image!
The 86 Mets were all BAD BOYS but people loved them because of their record.
If they did not have that record all the Bar Brawls and suspcted drug usage would have not been as overlooked as it was at the time!

So tell us who did? Oakland? How many WS titles did they win?

MAYBE, just MAYBE you can say that about the 2004 Red Sox. Which was their first WS win in 100 years!

What have they done since?

MERCENARIES! If you don’t believe it just look at Crawford!

I agree that selling the house of all it’s good parts to get multiple sub-standard MAYBES is the wrong approach.

It is based on the BEANE COUNTING principle AKA MONEYBALL! Collect as many kids as you can and hope to appear to have developement you don’t really have so you can make trades for NEW guys to beat on because of how much they are about to get paid.

I can’t say paying Reyes Crawford money is worth it, Crawford sure hasn’t done anything this year to show even HE was worth that kind of money.

But I do know this. If thats what a guy like Reyes is worth in the open Market then there is a damn good reason for it. And considering the fact that Salaries never go down just up by the time we get to where we ARE in a position to make signing a guy like Reyes worth it that same guy will probably cost 1.5 times as much as Reyes would now.

The money should not be an issue, Whatever it is it is, What is key is not giving a NO TRADE clause so that in two years time if we want we can trade Reyes for those prospects. His Salary will be normal compared to what other lesser players will be making at the time and the team is not hurt in anyway.

Jessup is taking a lot of heat here but mostly because of his views on how best to go about rebuilding the team. And I disagree with himon that proccess.

But what he said in regards to what Wilpon said and people are slamming Fred for he was dead on!

People have accused Fred of being a liar for years…
Was he lying there or did he merely speak the truth we all been speaking?

A new owner could easily fire Sandy and pay him the remainder left while also hiring someone else.

The reason I looked for Fred’s quote is that was the moment that I lost faith in the man’s judgement.

Here’s an excerpt:

Doubleday hired Frank Cashen and by extension Davey Johnson. Wilpon, in his first act without Doubleday around, hired Art Howe, who he claimed “lit up the room.”

Doubleday got out of the way after hiring Cashen and let him do his job. Wilpon instituted a collegial managerial style with no evident chain of command and put his son in a position of power.

Doubleday was willing to spend money when he thought it was in the best interests of the club and is allegedly the one who pushed for the Mike Piazza trade. Wilpon was the one who allegedly pushed for character guys and was the one blamed for sending outspoken players like Kevin Mitchell and Lenny Dykstra out of town.

there’s more…

link: http://mets360.com/?p=5439

Let me ask you this.

His opinion. Was it wrong? His timing and the fact he said it, probably not the best idea.

But the things he said, were they wrong?

1) the sport of baseball and
2) the role of ownership in management in ANY real world company.

The smugness this ignorance is written with does make it quite comical though. In all fairness he probably had to wrap it up quickly before the school bus came.