I’m praying an astute paRtner comes along at the last desperate moment insisting upon the title & power of managing partner be bestowed before he autographs the $200M check. Personally, I believe Reyes may be induced to stay for a 5y period(’12-’17) for about the same as they’ll waste on Santana over the next 2 full seasons aboout $75M. If it were me, I’d assure Jose the resperct he deserves by promoting him alongside Wright as co-faces of the future foundation structuring a deal in this manner:
initial signing bonus % 5M
2012 11M
2013 13M
2014 15M(mutual opt out clause for either party’s use)
2015 15M
2016 club option 16M
With all this speculation about Crawford money, I’ve yet to hear it from Reyes or his agent, pETER gREENBERG, directly. Opt out after third Season can be activated by either party giving both maximum protection should Mets fail to progress as a team or Reyes continue his fragility issues.
After waiting ALL of these years for Jose to finally fulfill his ever increasing potential, it’s certaibnly counterintuitive to trade him just as he’s entering the PRIME productivity age (28-31). I perceive those years as the greatest oportunity to maximize the benefit of further Reyes investnment, thus my 3y span of locking him in for certain.
Before anyone gets their back up over my Santana reference/compariison ask yourself this;
Which is more likely, a position player @ age 27 improves his game OR a SP after shoulder surgery+2 other pitching related surgeries improves at age 32?
Therefore I submit that investing $75M in Reyes over the next 5 yrs through 2017 is a sounder invstment that the remaining 72.5M in Santana through 2014.

My trasdeable assets are SANTANA, K-ROD & BELTRAN. more than likely this team is not in contention for another 2-3 yrs 2013 or 2014. By that time Santana’s current deal has been bought out in 2013 @ age 34, K-Rod is certainly replaced & Berltran’s using a motorized wheelchair to patrol the Little League field he built in PR. ONLY Reyes would/could be considered still viable @ his current position & leadoff spot @ age 30.(still well in his PRIME!)

Santana was it before he got hurt. but he was not enough.

You need two ACE type pitchers to win in this league. And they are hard to develop via the draft. Yankees have had the long successful run they have had by constantly going out and buying the best pitchers in the league or trading for them.

Phillies figured that out and did the same and look at where they are right now.

Giants made and won the WS largely on thier pitching and does anyone think Texas would have been there if Less wasn’t there pitching for them last year?

And they offered me free access to Shake Shack, but I held out for Blue Smoke as well as the parking.

Angels got one!
When it came time to beat the best teams in the MLB they folded!

So obviously they were not the best team in the MLB just had the best record which depends more on your chedule than how good your team ACTUALLY is when facing other WINNING teams!

“22 of the 30 teams in MLB didn’t qualify for the post season. The 2002 Oakland A’s did.”

As well as 28% of the rest of the MLB did…More than a Quarter of the league DID make the Playoffs!
And Oakland couldn’t beat that Quarter of the league to advance to the WS!

Thats like saying Your the BEST based only when compared to 73% of the league but ignore the other 28%!

Because if you INCLUDE them they aren’t the best anymore!

It is not different than manipulating and cherry picking stats to make an argument that isn’t true when ALL the parameters are used!

Who was the baseball champion in 2002? If not Oakland your argument fails!

The A’s won their Division in a year that that Seattle won 93 games and Anaheim won 99 and the World Series. Explain to us again how that is not competing?

22 of the 30 teams in MLB didn’t qualify for the post season. The 2002 Oakland A’s did. That’s not just competing, that’s successfully competing and not like your God like swami who made the post season once in six years and only then when Philly didn’t break .500 until August 20th, Florida didn’t until Sept. 17th, Atlanta didn’t after May 3rd and Washington never did and that’s with the highest payroll in the league compared to Oakland’s lowest.

Whether you agree with it or not payroll IS dictated by resources. That’s the central theme of the entire book.

Every business in every industry has a budget with which they have to work around. You can lament that you don’t have the same budget to work with that your competitors do or you can attempt to keep up and surpass them using the resources you do have. By any objective measurement that’s what the A’s did.

The NYY didn’t win the World Series that year despite an almost unlimited budget to work with. Either did Boston or the Mets.

Monkeyball got us to the postseason once in six years and was primarilly due to an overall week NL and an extremely weak NL East. Monkeyball got us 88, 89, 70 and 79 wins with the highest payroll in the entire league.

Only a monkey wouldn’t be able to see the difference.

The only one who is lost is YOU by your own admission in multiple posts…I suggest you let the grownups talk and go back to your fischer price playground!

Yes the line where they gave out brains!

I know your lost, happens to idiots all the time.
Go re read you ******** about how many PAs a guy would have to have to have a .200 BA and .400 OBP and a .350BA and a .400 OBP

When you catch up let us know!
ROFLMAO!

Despite self imposed limitations…
It still failed to compete with the REST of the MLB.
Still failed to win the goal of every team in the league.
WIN A WS!

Only a monkey would disagree with THAT!

Should we give them a handicap in credit because they were dumb and handcuffed themselves into an unsuccessful (By MLB standards) plan?

“Everyone who has ever been in a batters box knows that a pitcher will try to get the upper hand by throwing the illusion of a strike.”

Right who decides to do that? The Batter or the Pitcher?
If the pitcher doesn’t throw the illusion then can the batter make the pitcher walk him?

If you think identifying the illusion is an accomplishment of the batter fine but the batter can not take credit for the Pitcher not throwing the strike!
If the Pitcher does not throw that ball then the OBP means nothing and the BA means everything, because in order to get OB in that situation the Batter MUST HIT IT!

So in the example I posed above (which you ignored because you knew you would have to say the .250 guy to make your argument hold true) It is the better hitter who will get the illusion more because the pitcher would prefer to walk him than allow him to hit it for something that could be a doub;le triple HR or RBI (if someone else is OB)

Not the batter who walks but doesn’t hit but the HITTER!

Yet the Saber guys all fight for OBP because it makes bad hitters look good based on pitchers missing not on any skills the batter actually has!
Other than observation!

As for getting into a Hitters count Why do they call it a hitters count pray tell?
Have a clue?
Is it because the Pitcher is most likely FORCED or compelled to throw a strike and what is the correct course of action for a batter in a HITTERS count?

Taking balls hoping for a walk? OR kniocking the snot out of a likely strike so you get much more than the lowly walk?

They call it a Hitters count for a REASON!
Cause guys with good BA no matter what their OBP is usually get a pitch to HIT!
And if you have a .250 BA it really doesn’t matter if you get a pitch to hit because 7.5 times out of 10 it will be an out!

3.5 times out of ten for the HITTER it will be a hit and maybe a hit for extra bases!

Counts? counts of what? the count on the hitter? when were we talking about the count? you were talking about a .250 hitter having a .400 OBP, which is only possible with minimal plate appearances and not very likely over the course of a full season. what does the count have anything to do with that?

did I miss something?

Your acting like it was by choice they let those players go so they could test some new theory of their’s. That wasn’t the case and you know that. Resigning those players for what the NYY, Red Sox, and St. Louis paid would have eaten the whole budget. The choice was made for them.

The A’s of the late 80′s had an owner who made up for the shortfall of many millions every year in order to maintain a winning team but the new A’s owner is not as beneovalant. He may want to win but he wants to balance the books first and foremost.

You can express the opinion that he shouldn’t be in the baseball business if you want to and you could be right about that but nontheless this is what the A’s were working with and around.

Anyone with an open mind would have to agree that the A’s did well given their circumstances. Whether their approach is suitable in a large market is certainly up for examination but to compare their ultimate results against the largest market teams is not being objective. You have no idea what the owners of the A’s primary goals are. Without knowing that how can you even say if they were successful or not?

I suppose you can claim they didn’t meet your definition of success but you cannot say that they didn’t meet the owner of the teams definition of success because you don’t even know what that was.

Close your mind all you want to Metsie, I don’t care. The fact is that with a 43 Million dollar payroll they won two Division titles. If you want to compare them to anyone compare them to us. We had a 120 Million dollar payroll in 2002 and a 160 Million dollar payroll in 2003 and finished last both years, and we did it with the same manager the A’s had won three straight post seasons with.

What conclusion can be drawn from that? Monkeyball beats moneyball? I don’t think so. I think the only rational conclusion that can be drawn from that comparison is that the A’s, with their highly talented homegrown players like Zito, Hudson, Mulder, Chavez, Tejada, Ellis and then filled in around with well conceived, well thought out trade acquisitions and non comp free agents is a far superior philosophy than just waiting around every year to see who you can get for every position of need through the compensatable free agent class.

Only a monkey would disagree.

I never brought up sabermetrics and it really has not a thing to do with getting your self into a hitters count by not swinging at balls.

Many guys never swing at the first pitch. This is so wrong. Many times the first pitch is the best pitch and that’s what your there to do. Swing at the best pitch. That also gives the pitcher something to think about in subsequent AB’s both in this game and the next.

Getting into a 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-0, 3-1 count is exactly how the best hitters in baseball do their most damage and the only way to do that is to not swing at balls. Very simple.

One thing I notice Metsie is you keep bringing up walks when I’m talking hitting. Hitting, you know the thing that drives OBP 3-1 over everything else combined.

What will you respond with Metsie? how getting into a hitter count is a passive action? Dependent on cooperation of the pitcher? Mental telepathy or some other nonsense?
The pitcher will throw you balls on purpose and he’ll throw you balls by accident. If your good and your smart you’ll take the balls as a gift because they put you in a much better situation hitting wise. Any other thought on the subject would be the work of a fool.

Well it might be considered significant if they didn’t CHOOSE to lose those three players or insist on a miniscule Payroll!

And if it is significant then it really is no more of a success than lets say Chris getting a C on a test because he’s dumb and had a much harder time scoring so well on a test!

If we are talking success how much you spend is irrelevant! Oakland CHOSE to spend that little and by doing sop CHOSE to let those guys get away.

And it is those choices you guys tried to Herald as a Revolutionary new concept in Baseball when all it really was revolutionary about was econimically putting money into the Owners pocket he would not allow them to spend because it wasn’t about building a winner it was about building a fortune!

Right.

I wish we could realize an insignificant achievement like that once in a while. Maybe someday without having to wait for a Marlin financial sell off in order to accomplish the goal.

And just exactly which World Series did Omar get to?