Comments on: Dragging Out The Inevitable? http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html Sat, 18 May 2013 10:53:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: Original Met Fan http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156225 Original Met Fan Tue, 24 May 2011 22:08:51 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156225 Youre right, just sell the whole team and get outta dodge.

]]> By: Ron Davis http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156157 Ron Davis Tue, 24 May 2011 17:34:05 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156157 Dumb question would it be less painful to all parties just to sell the team for 1 billion or slightly more cover your debt and have a little nest egg for your fishing poles and new golf clubs. and call it a day. Fred sell the team. You not just hurting the brand name or your rep but your hurting the fan base that really deserves alot better now. Your not going to come ahead of this at 74 your going to be closer to 77 by the end of this and then what your going to put your inept son to ruin the team again. . Think get out now save the team by being less greedy and less pridful do it for the organization Right now your the black cloud over this team admit it.

]]> By: Hodges14 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156139 Hodges14 Tue, 24 May 2011 16:26:41 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156139 Give Reyes 5 years and $85 million. Lets see if he takes it. If he does, great, if not trade him for top prospects.

]]> By: Metsie http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156127 Metsie Tue, 24 May 2011 15:57:35 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156127 “The whole reason attendance tanks when the team is bad is…”
Because the team is BAD!
If no names were playing .500 ball and in a pennant race people would go!

More stars and less winds does not draw as much as Less Stars and MORE wins.
Doesn’t matter who is on the team if they win ballgames!
Doesn’t matter who is on the team if you don’t!

Should they resign someone like Reyes, Sure because you need good players to get those wins. But it isn’t going to help attendance if you don’t get them!

]]> By: Metlomaniac http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156119 Metlomaniac Tue, 24 May 2011 15:43:12 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156119 Do we know if that prospective investor is Steve Cohen, as has been speculated? If so, he is under investigation by the SEC for insider trading, so there could be even more trouble on the horizon.

]]> By: t agee http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156118 t agee Tue, 24 May 2011 15:40:54 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156118 Dumping players to lower salary is the last thing we should be doing.

The whole reason attendance tanks when the team is bad is because there really is no continuity here. To get rid of the few guys who have been here for a long time is not the answer. The answer is to get MORE guys who are here for a long time.

More fan favorites and less expensive shells of their former selves who can’t stay on the field, don’t play well, can’t get anything for and can’t even get rid of.

The FO has to take into account how we have a different RFer, LFer, 2B, C every year.

We want our own guys who come up here when their ready to play well. That we will have for years to come, not a different guy at half the everyday positions every other year.

]]> By: Metsie http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156108 Metsie Tue, 24 May 2011 15:24:41 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156108 And how is a better PRODUCT going to be defined?
Is a 5-13 team with stars going to draw more than a 9-9 set of No Names?

Apparently not!
Or it would already be happening!

You might be more willing to go to a game or two more to see a Reyes in a year you are not likely to go to at all with their W/L Recrod.

But that one ticket a year is not going to substitute for the season tickets you didn’t purchase because your STARS were under .500 Two years in a row!

Attendance is WIN driven not star driven!
People want to go to a ballgame to see their team win. And will buy MORE tickets based on the probability that will happen. If you present a 50/50 chance or better they will all sign up for the season or buy MORE single game tickets because they have a good chance of seeing a win!

So only in regards to of ALL the fans on the planet you might get a few hundred maybe even thousands to buy an extra ticket a year if your team doesn’t win just to see a GAME that their favorite star is playing in.

If your team wins you get them too and more because people want to see them win AND see who is the STAR that is making that happen!

]]> By: Metsie http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156107 Metsie Tue, 24 May 2011 15:15:58 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156107 Sorry Joe, I also was not clear in what I was trying to say as well…Your figures were fine…No Issue, It was the Two Years afloat I was getting at.

Once that money comes off the books it pretty much stays off the books until you decide to take on Salary….

In Two Years Wright may be gone as well. So in two years they will be back in black even at current attendance levels. (Will they keep that Attendance, who can say, Attendance is all about the wins and losses, Even with Stars (as we have now) if your not winning they don’t go!

So in two years with all the Salary that will come off, they won’t be losing money anymore. And if you are not losing money no need for them to get out.

I think Fred and Sandy are going to play the lets get ourselves back to profitability first and then go from there. That can happen by a mere shedding of Payroll. Something under their control.

I agree with your math that they will probably invest 25 Mil on a guy like Reyes or maybe something else. Lets say Pitching! (Wilpon LIKES pitchers he built a stadium just for them!)

But what I was disagreeing with was the assertion that they have two years to fix things before they had to sell. In two years enough Payroll comes off that if they just don’t take on any salary they will make enough to pay the bills. And therefor NO SELLING needed.

]]> By: jessep http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156080 jessep Tue, 24 May 2011 14:37:03 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156080 I’m ready for it. If the Mets are tearing it down for 2 years to build it back up with a team that can sustain success, just tell me. I can handle it.

]]> By: sarge http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156094 sarge Tue, 24 May 2011 14:23:39 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156094 Cutting payroll might seem prudent but putting a better product on the field while building for the future will bring in fans but if you dump payroll for finances sake then you will not make money at Citi cause fans will stay home and watch and not spend money at the park.
Mets and Sandy have to find a way to trim some payroll while keeping the team viable and competing.
Keep Jose along with David, you have Ike at 1b, Santana returns, Gee, R.A., and Holt in rotation.
Pagan and Bay in OF and you can fill in with Kirk or Fernando or Duda in AAA plus hopefully you have some more arms coming up from minors.
Turner and Murph along with Tejada can cover the other spots until a real solution at 2b arrives.

It can be done but if you dump Jose, don’t re-sign David, depending on his numbers going forward, you are basically tearing the team down.

It can be done and hopefully SA can pull it off without Wilpons interference.

]]> By: Joe D http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156093 Joe D Tue, 24 May 2011 14:17:20 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156093 Hi Metsie, thanks for your comment. The $50 million in flexibility I referred to was the money freed up by not paying Beltran, Castillo, Perez, Reyes and possibly K-Rod. It’s that money thatI believe only half will be re-invested and the other $25 million to go toward reducing the operating deficit. I apologize for not making that clearer.

]]> By: Metsie http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156092 Metsie Tue, 24 May 2011 14:12:41 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156092 Joe your Math is correct but you did not take into account the money that can (or will) come off the books after this year…

Beltran alone is close to 20 Mil a year savings.
Those OPERATING costs and shortfalls being discussed are due to lack of attendance. The potential to increase that is there provided they start winning games.

So if they do not resign Reyes and Beltran, the Attendance may go down (how low can it go?) but they will have 30+ Mil off the books. Add to it the 20 Mil that we are paying this year for Perez and Castillo and minus it from our current payroll and a 140 mil Plus Salary is down to about 90 Mil. a 20 Mil shortfall instead of a 70 Mil.

If your going to send Beltran and Reyes Packing will Wright and Bay be far behind?
Take another 40 Mil off the books then. Back to profitability! Even with current attendance rates!

If they manage to build a decent team without those guys who can win a few games then the attendance will jump back up and they will again have plenty opf money to sign players.

The bottom line has always been that people stopped going to the games which is the ONLY reason why there are money issues here. Madoff was a WIN for Wilpon not a loss. The lawsuit could change that but thats the only way Madoff could affect their finances in a negative way.

This is why I have chastised anyone who tries to start a BOYCOTT. They are not helping things get better they are just making things worse. They have every right to not pay for inferior product but if thats their decision they have to expect to lose the Reyes’ and Wrights of this world as a result.

It comes down to this…
You may not like the product they put out now but will you like that product better when all the stars of that product are gone and your watching a bunch of no names?

My guess would be NO! So you won’t go then either and at that point we will be the Pirates not out of choice but due to the attendance forcing the budget to reflect the Pirate philosophy!

]]> By: t agee http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156086 t agee Tue, 24 May 2011 13:58:56 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156086 This team has been run like a small market team for two decades now. Yeah we have the big payroll but skimp out on everything else. No team in MLB spends less than us on the draft or in international free agency and that is the very reason we HAVE to spend so much on these aging freaks that we keep bringing in here.

The results haven’t exactly been very good under the FA model of team building anyway. 3 post season appearances in the last 23 years. Same as Pittsburgh. Woopty ******* do. Pittsburgh has 3 NL East Pennants, we have 1.

Our results have been small market because our approach has been small market, except when it comes to overpaying someone else’s aging former All Stars.

Who else sells two first round draft choices for a DH?

]]> By: Metstheory22 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156083 Metstheory22 Tue, 24 May 2011 13:52:18 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156083 Time to sell, Sell, SELL.

]]> By: Rich from Lake Como http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156081 Rich from Lake Como Tue, 24 May 2011 13:40:38 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156081 Sandy Alderson was brought into the Mets “situation” at the behest of Bud Selig to turn the Mets into a 70 to 90 million dollar payroll franchise. This serves 2 purposes… it helps drive drive down free agent prices in the marketplace AND helps protect Bud’s buddy, Fred Wilpon, until the Madoff matter is settled. Anybody who thinks Alderson is here because of his baseball acumen is delusional. I can only hope that this is the start of the exit for the Wilpons. I totally understand that they have been victimized the both Madoff and Picard… but the ballclub and the Franchise is being run into the ground. It’s painful to see and an economic disaster for New York as well.

]]> By: any http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156079 any Tue, 24 May 2011 13:23:35 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156079 some of those arbitration jumps likely won’t be on the team anyway (could be traded).

off the top of my head, they 2 big ones are pagan and Pelfrey. Just about everyone else is either signed LT, or not yet arb eligible

also, the new owner needs to put $ into the team too. Otherwise, they would be ‘double dipping” (getting a % of the team, then having the wilpons put the purchase money right back into it).

Say they sell 50% of the team for 400mill. The wilpons get that money. If the team then needs an investment of $200mill, 100 should come from each of the owners. Not 200 from Fred, and nothing from the new guy.

]]> By: Dennis Ribant http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/05/dragging-out-the-inevitable.html#comment-156071 Dennis Ribant Tue, 24 May 2011 12:18:27 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=50980#comment-156071 Nice write up. The theoretical “payroll flexibility” was a nice line to try to deflect fan resentment but this article proves it will never be. Looking more like the Mets will be the small market team in the biggest market. Its really critical for Met fans to have Wilpon lose to POicard completely so he is forced to sell 100%. Short of that, the challenge will be to be 500 every year. Ask Pirate fans how much fun that is.

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