12
2011
Isringhausen Offers A Glimmer Of Hope In Mets Debut
An article by Craig Lerner
It has been almost 12 years in between pitches as a New York Met for Jason Isringhausen, but last night when he emerged from the bullpen and took the mound, he was one of the lone Mets relievers that got the job done against the Rockies.
Isringhausen came into the game with two runners on and the score tied at 4-4, and then registered two big outs to preserve the tie and pitch the Mets out of danger. His performance drew applause from admiring fans.
Tyler Kepner of the New York Times, spoke to Jason Giambi who is now with the Rockies, about the deal that sent Jason Isringhausen to the A’s in 1999.
The Mets were contending for the playoffs, and Isringhausen had a 6.41 earned run average as he recovered from elbow surgery. Taylor seemed more of a sure thing, but he was even worse, with an 8.10 E.R.A. Meanwhile, Isringhausen thrived in Oakland. “His velocity was back up, and he had that big breaking ball,” said Colorado’s Jason Giambi, the Athletics’ best hitter at the time. “We knew we had that lights-out guy in the ninth.” Giambi continued: “It was one of the best trades we ever had. It made our team, because we could play with any team offensively and we had that big three in the rotation, but we just didn’t have that big guy to finish up the ballgame. This is a real closer, this is a real team. It put us on the map as a real ball club.”
All the hard work this spring, has paid off for Izzy and his performance last night is already making some of us wonder if maybe he should be the setup man instead of a shell-shocked Bobby Parnell who has been struggling.
In five games, Parnell has a 8.31 ERA and a 2.08 WHIP this season.
What are your thoughts based on the early results?
Is Bobby Parnell well suited for the setup man role?
Would you supplant him with Jason Isringhausen?
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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Boby Parnell should go to AAA and work on his secondary pitches. His fastball is too hittable unless he develops a quality off-spead pitch.
“Would you supplant him with Jason Isringhausen?”
Let’s see how Izzy feels in the morning. Will he be ready for the next game? The season is a long grind.
Parnell’s slider stinks, and his fastball command is spotty. I don’t know if he’s ever going to improve either. When he throws his fastball for strikes, he can be dominant.
I think we should stop trying to fill the pen with “SPECIALISTS”
Left Handed SPECIALIST
8th Inning GUY
Specialist who comes in on a Tuesday taht falls between the dates of the 15th and 27th when the moon is more tha 1/3rd full etc…
Maybe if we started looking for pitchers who can get ANYONE out (lefty and righty) and pitch an inning or two every two or three days instead of going with a particular guy based on what inning it is, we would not have such issues.
We should be more concerned with what a pitcher does not concerned with which inning it might be good to use him in. To HELL with the ROLES. If the BP wants some “CONSISTENCY” then SHOW some “CONSISTENCY” on the mound and if you do you will “CONSISTENTLY” get the call.
Maybe if these guys got the impression that they might be called to come in at any time during the game they might pay a little more attention to what is going on in it and watch what pitches worked what pitches they bite on, which pitches they hit and have their head in the game for whenever their name is called instead of sitting around and waiting until the inning before their ROLE calls for them to be ready.
K-Rod is the closer, thats about the ONLY ROLE we should have in the PEN. The rest of them have roles assigned to them. Those Roles should be EARNED not bestowed!
For the most part, I agree that there is too much specialization. 2 things:
1) Why is closer exempt?
2) Lefty splits apparently do justify having a LOOGY. Maybe even 2. Its just that most teams (not just the Mets) do a bad job of managing the bullpen.
Because the closer is a guy who needs to be capable of handling much more pressure than the average reliever faces. It does take a special kind of makeup (both personality and skills) that is harder to find.
The closer is the one guy who for the most part always comes in to start an inning and only on rare occassions is brought in with MOB. It takes a special guy to come in a hold a team with a mere 1 run lead and therefore you do not want to waste that guy and keep him ready for those very specific situations.
Yes the Splits may show it is better to have lefties for that situation. But do you really want to tie up two roster spots just to get two outs a game?
Even if you have them you can’t use them everyday as you will blow out their arm.
I have no issue bringing in a lefty who can get more than just lefties out. Then you get an inning out of him as opposed to a one batter out.
and the whole concept of lefty righty splits is not something I put much stock in. It can be easily thwarted by simply changing batters again! Then you wasted an arm of your pen just to get rid of one lefty batter!
Better to just have pitchers who can get anyone out and then let them finish thre inning or pitch until he comes up in the order.
The Pen doesn’t get overused and you aren’t wasting a roster spot on a once a game situation.
Oh forgot to add something I wanted to say about the closer…
What I do believe is that you need two closer TYPES in your pen. One as your main closer and the other for those times when the closer has been overused and needs a day off and when thats not the case to come in with MOB to shut down an inning that the starter got into trouble and had to be pulled.
Cause in both cases a closer is the type of guy who is usually a strikeout type who can stop those runners from scoring and preserve the win for the starter.
So while I am content with the Closer ROLE I do feel having two guys capable of filling it is ideal for those situations I described.
a 3 run lead in the 9th against a bunch of pinch hitters is high pressure?
What about in the 7th with a tie game and the 4 5 and 6 hitters coming up?
The reason it seems so hard to find a good closer, is because maybe its a false concept. Maybe you just have guys who are really good for an inning or 2.
1 inning closers didn’t appear until the mid 1990s. Yet, since 1900, the team with a 1 run lead in the 9th inning wins 94% of the time. How may 1 inning closers have a 90% success rate?
I’d rather have 3 or 4 guys who can give me 2 or 3 innings of effectiveness rather than 1 guy who makes a boatload of money and has a nifty entrance but an effective window of 3 years (if you’re lucky).
“and the whole concept of lefty righty splits is not something I put much stock in. It can be easily thwarted by simply changing batters again! Then you wasted an arm of your pen just to get rid of one lefty batter!”
Cool, you bench Ryan Howard or Adam Dunn to avoid my LOOGY. Hell, bench Josh Thole and play Nikeas. Either way, I come out ahead.
“Better to just have pitchers who can get anyone out and then let them finish thre inning or pitch until he comes up in the order.
The Pen doesn’t get overused and you aren’t wasting a roster spot on a once a game situation.”
That whole thing can also apply to closers.
Donal, having a LOOGY (and another LHP in the pen) is huge when it gets into the late innings. Many terrific LH hitters have huge platoon splits. Making them hit from the other side is vital in the late innings.
Like I said, the numbers support LOOGYs.
Only when you throw out the rest of the game and only focus on those singular at bat statistics.
The numbers look good. but what percentage of the game do those numbers represent.
My guess is less than 1% of all PA consists of a situation you would use him and your trying up 1/25th of your roster to deal with a situation that MAYBE happens 162 times a year!
Why not keep a guy who is good at bunting which is a situation that comes up way more than the lefty reliever comes up?
The bottomline is the numbers always look good when you throw out the majority of the data and focus on one little aspect. But if that aspect isn’t common enough it should not be used to determine who makes it on the roster.
So lets say you blow a roster spot on a lefty specialist. What is the success rate he has? Anymore than a guy’s BA?
Unless the success is over 50% not only did you tie up a roster sport for a situation that can only occur 162 times but is only successful in 81 PAs or less!
Where if you kept a guy who get both lefties and righties out they would contribute a lot more, Be usable in more situations and net you a lot more than just 80+ outs in a season!
“My guess is less than 1% of all PA consists of a situation you would use him and your trying up 1/25th of your roster to deal with a situation that MAYBE happens 162 times a year!”
so, you think less than 1% of the starting players are lefties or switch hitters that bat significantly worse as righties? How many games has Feliciano pitched the last 3 years?
“Why not keep a guy who is good at bunting which is a situation that comes up way more than the lefty reliever comes up?”
Sacrifice bunting actually hurts your team. Preserving the out is more valuable than moving a runner over 1 base. The only case it makes sense is when the pitcher is batting.
“So lets say you blow a roster spot on a lefty specialist. What is the success rate he has? Anymore than a guy’s BA?
Unless the success is over 50% not only did you tie up a roster sport for a situation that can only occur 162 times but is only successful in 81 PAs or less!”
Yes, if you get a LOOGY, you want to make sure he actually does get lefties out.
“Where if you kept a guy who get both lefties and righties out they would contribute a lot more, Be usable in more situations and net you a lot more than just 80+ outs in a season!”
Those guys tend to be the utility pitchers that do long relief and spot start.
No one should know better than a Met Fan the value of a LOOGY over the last few years. Runners on base, late innings of a close game you want a LHP or a RHP facing Utley and Howard? That’s 6-8 AB’s in just 3 or 4 games.
How about Atlanta? Heyward, McCann, McClouth Freeman. You wouldn’t want a LHP to come in for them with men OB?
Not only do they have lower BA’s, hit less doubles and HR’s, they also K more often against LHP.
Not all games in a series are going to be close and a LOOGY necessary but you must have one for when that situation arises, after all it could be for 3 hitters with perhaps an intentional BB in between. That would be 3 AB’s out of a bout 40 in just one game. Lot more 9% in just one game.
Crossovers are rare, hard to get and expensive when you can get them. Few can do it on a consistent basis. The last guy (Schowenweiss) we used as a crossover cost 11M over 3 years and gave up about a run an inning against RH hitters.
On the other hand part of having a well conceived bench is having someone who could lay one down if need be but that is something that should be taught in the minors, there really is no excuse for someone not being able to bunt, especially since you wouldn’t be asking a Beltran, Wright or Delgado to do it. There are other options as well. Hit and run, have a pitcher pinch sac bunt or just hit away.
When Howard comes up with the game on the line there really isn’t any option at all. You have to go with a LHP out of the pen.
But the need for a LOOGY comes up so much more often than the need for a pinch sac bunt it’s not really a credible comparison.
Ok I’ll deal with both here…
Tag Yep Utley and Howard. Do they bat one right after the other? NO? Then what good is the LOOGY if the right handed batter in between scores that run in because the LOOGY can’t get right handers out?
Donal – You say they can pitch to 6 guys a game. ONLY if they can do what I said they should do get BOTH SIDES OUT.
But if all they can do is get lefthanders out then they will only see ONE BATTER before they are REPLACED!
Since the MLB rules once a player is taken out he can’t go back in so much for your 6 outs a game!
And now back to Tag sure lefty vs Lefty is fine. Most Managers will no9t put a Lefty to bat after another Lefty. So you are forced to pick your poison of let the right hander or switch hitter sandwhiched in between score the runs instead because you look for a LOOGY instead of a PITCHER!
When did I say they could pitch to 6 guys a game? If they could do that, it makes them way more valuable than a closer.
Depending on who your LOOGY is (maybe he is competant against righties) sure, you can leave him in to face whoever is between Utley and Howard.
Or, lets say the manager pulls the lefty bat for a righty. That means I have forced him to replace a starter. Let’s be honest, that right handed guy was on the bench for a reason.
So, even if I do decide to swap out my LOOGY, I still took out one of their better players.
The point is you are tying up an ENTIRE roster spot to get out one batter at best per game.
Maybe two! How often are there two lefties back to back without a righty in between?
Your NUMBERS show they do well lefty vs Lefty and Righty vs Righty.
What do your numbers show when it is lefty vs righty?
What you and Tag can argue all you want but will never do anything but make MY point is that a guy who can get Righties AND Lefties out will be MORE productive, Not have to be replaced after only a 1/3rd of an inning and can get the same lefty AND righty out because he is a good pitcher!!!
Not just good against lefties!
But you guys keep playing checkers while I and everyone else is playing chess!
If you have a guy who can get both sides out then there is NO REASON for a LOOGY!
And if you grew up in the City you would know exactly what connotation LOOGY has!!!
Well Metsie I didn’t grow up in Manhattan but I’m well aware of the connotation of a LOOGY but I have no idea what that has to do with this discussion.
If your not aware of how much it means to be able to neutralize a Ryan Howard, a Chase Utley, a Jason Heyward or a Brian McCann in the late innings of a close game then all I can say is you must be right. Bring on the righty’s.
Well Tag if your in favor of getting rid of a GOOD pitcher who can neutralize BOTH sides in favor of a guy who can’t get anyone out but a lefthander then welcome to the Omar Minaya way of thinking…
Lets get a CRAPPY pitcher who can only do one thing instead of filling the roster with good players no matter which arm they throw with!
Point is if he can get both sides out it doesn’t really matter what arm he throws with.
Your numbers show up well because you are throwing out what the guy does against right handers which he will have to pitch to unless you are using up a roster spot a day to get a SINGLE out!
Waste of a roster spot, just get good pitchers and then it won’t matter which side of the plate the batter stands on!
Your way there should be a Lefty BAT specialist and a Sinker ball Specialist and then we should probably have a guy who hits changeups well and while we are at it why not get a guy who can only pitch to Righties?
When your done you won’t have enough players to do all the other UNSPECIALIZED things to field a full team!
Get GOOD Pitching! Don’t keep a scrub pitcher who has a combined 6.0 ERA just because he has a left arm and only has a 2.0 era against lefties!
Get him from where? With what? Seriously, the last time we had a crossover we paid 11M for Scott Schowenweiss. They don’t grow on trees you know. If guys are able to get outs from both sides in the Major Leagues they’d be closers, 8th inning guys or starters. There’s a reason why relievers become relievers. We can’t even get a second basemen, right fielder, left fielder or a catcher who can hit Lefty’s, you think we can develop a crossover specialist? S***, we can’t even develop a 7th inning guy.
The checkbook’s gone. The money’s all been spent. It went to pay Alou, Schowenweiss, Castillo, Perez, Putz, Wagner, Bay, Mota, Church, Schneider, Cora, Ayala, Sele Redding and Sosa.
That’s why we’re picking through the garbage dump right now and your looking to strike gold?
Where? ANYWHERE!
we get the guys your worried about out with right handers all the time!
People get those guys out all the time without having to bring a guy in whose only purpose is to face a left handed batter.
Do you yank your starter to get the smidgeon of advantage you think your getting playig righty Lefty?
OK you bring your guy in the 7th. WHO pitches to Howard when he comes back up in tthe 9th? Bring up another lefty specialist from the minors?
It is dumb to fill your roster with players who can serve in only ONE situation and can not repeat that situation in the same game!
Metsie, most Major League pitchers will get a hitter out 70% of the time. What we’re talking about here is getting a dangerous hitter out in a potentially game decisive moment. Forget about the 9th inning Metsie, that’s when you have your closer in, right? A guy who became the closer for the exact reason your discussing right now, the ability to get both handed hitters out.
You simply cannot (or should not) allocate the funds to have a closer for every inning your bullpen works.
Long man/spot starter, guy for righties, guy for lefties, cross over, bridge, set up and closer and then mix and match them based on the opponent and the accumulated work rate over the past few days.
Use your LOOGY in the 7th instead of having Pelfrey face Utley and Howard back to back. If your pen does it’s job you won’t even see them again until tomorrow. If the pen does allow 4 or more base runners after Howard’s AB you’ll have your closer waiting to face him.
And your going to tie up an entire roster spot for a another 7% on one left handed batter?
Please…What a waste!
And whatever you gained for that ONE batter you lose if he has to face a right hander!
SO take the 70% and not waste an entire player in substitution just to get one batter out!
Oh I casually looked at the numbers. Pitchers get more than 70% of guys out. There are far fewer guys who hit over .300 than hit below and way below…
Metsie. Utley and Howard have always hit 3 and 4 in the line up. Back to back. But even if Werth had hit between them he can be IBB’d so if that were the case you would have a far greater chance against Utley, take the bat out of Werth’s hand and then had a far better chance against Howard. Two AB’s (hopefully successful and no damage by Werth) and next inning you would have 6-8 and the pitchers spot. That often times would be an even better situation.
When Brown comes back you could have some sort of an order like Utley, Howard, Brown, Ibanez. They can’t pinch hit for all of them and again in an unfavorable matchup you can use the IBB and have your LOOGY get another LH hitter out or even just turn a switchhitter around.
So your solution is to get out the lefty and walk a righty?
If you get a good pitcher you get all three out!
And you can keep the guy in the game because he can get someone other than a lefthander out!
If you ail in the 7th have you lost the game?
NO!
You still have two innings to regain the lead or take it!
But in the 9th you blow the lead half the time it means the other side won!
Much more pressure than the 7th or 8th.
You fail you cost your team the game. You fail in the 7th there is still time to fix it!
Runs given up in the 7th inning count just as much as runs given up in any other inning. Give ‘em up in the 7th you might have to play your infield in and give up a couple more. Just because you have the chance to get those runs back doesn’t mean you will.
But runs in the 7th inning can be overcome by batting as much as pitching.
If your pitching in the 9th on the road you don’t get a chance to overcome them, you go to the showers!
The runs given up in th 7th do not end the game. You have 6-9 outs to make them up.
In the ninth you have none or just 3!
No one ever got a walk off win in the 7th inning or do you mean to suggest they have?
Teams that go into the 9th inning with a 1 run lead have a 94% success rate. that is since 1900, before the advent of the one inning closer.
The later you go into a game, the more likely you are also going to see pinch hitters. So that super duper closer is more likely to be facing a lifetime .215 hitter who is cold coming off the bench than the guy who has to put out a fire in the 6th or 7th.
No definitely not but giving up the lead in the 7th, while it can still be overcome, more often than not isn’t. Giving up the lead in the 7th can also effect game strategies that can put the game out of reach even with a credible comeback.
Ultimately you really have to build your team for optimum effectiveness and versatility certainly does advance that goal but having a shut down LOOGY to keep it close or maintain a lead is a vital component to getting to the 9th close or in the lead.
OK, I am misremembering. Going back to 1901-2003 (with the occasional missed year due to missing records), the team with any lead going in the 9th won the game 95% of the time.
A 1 run lead after 8 innings translated into a win 85% of the time.
A two run lead 94% and a 3 run lead 96% of the time.
And remember, the save wasn’t recorded until 1960 and MLB didn’t recognize it until 1969. And when Goose Gossage was racking up saves, he was a stopper who could come in the 7th and finish the game.
So, I’ll ask you: If you’re Terry Collins and you have a 1 run lead in the 7th inning against the Phillies with Polanco, Rollins, and Howard due up, who do you hand the ball to?