25
2011
Gee Should Remain In The Rotation, Not Capuano
An article by 
With Chris Young coming off the DL, the Mets have decided to opt D.J. Carrasco down to Triple-A and to place Dillon Gee in the bullpen. This move is not only endangering the further development of Gee as a pitcher, but also takes a great pitcher out of the rotation. What does not makes sense is why take Gee out of the rotation when Chris Capuano has a 5.95 ERA this season.
Gee in two starts this season has a 2-0 record 2.31 ERA compared to Capuano’s 2-1 record and 5.95 ERA. That alone should keep him in the rotation but due to his little MLB experience the odds are against him.
But with so little to count on in the Mets rotation, why take out one of the few starters who has been consistently above average, borderline dominant, in the small sample from 2010 and 2011 we have seen out of Gee. Capuano has only had one good start this season so far and is not exactly known for consistency.
Based on Gee’s career seven starts, if he pitched a full 34-start season, he would have an incredible 19-10 record with a microscopic 2.22 ERA. Even though Gee attaining this figure would be highly unlikely, a 13-15 win season out of Gee would not be out of the question if given the chance.
But it is not just normal statistics that show Gee is the better candidate, looking a sabermetrics shows that Gee is better suited as well. In the three major stats that are solely the responsibility of the pitcher and not effected by defense, homers, strikeouts and walks, with the exception of strikeouts, Gee still excels. Gee has a 0.8 HR/9 IP, Capuano has a 1.4, Gee has a 2.3 BB/9 IP, Capuano has a 2.7, Gee has a 3.00 BB/K, Capuano has a 2.83.
The only major sabermetrics stat that Capuano is superior at is K/9 IP. Capuano has a 7.8 figure, Gee has a 6.9. This is mostly due to the fact that Gee is not a strikeout pitcher. He does not have overwhelming velocity and relies on his exceptional control to get batters out, resulting in more balls in play than strikeouts. Despite this, Gee still prevails as an overall better option than Capuano.
Capuano in 2010, his first season returning from several years of injury, pitched much more effectively as a reliever than a starter with the Brewers. As a starter Capuano was 3-3 with a respectable 4.14 ERA, but as a reliever Capuano was 1-1 with a 3.54 ERA. Based on those stats, Capuano would best serve the Mets in a long relief/ 6th starter position.
Despite this overwhelming evidence, the Mets somehow favor the option of Gee in the bullpen. Hopefully sooner rather than later the Mets will realize their mistake and place Gee back in the rotation.
About the Author: Clayton Collier
Clayton, a Long Island native and die-hard Mets fan, started writing online about three years ago. He is currently a Journalism major with a minor in Broadcasting at Seton Hall University. Although very disappointed with the current state of the team, Clayton remains hopeful that the young prospects in the farm system will bring the Mets back to a respected franchise in baseball once again. Besides writing for MMO, Clayton is also a staff member at 89.5 WSOU, Seton Hall's modern active rock radio station. You can contact Clayton by following him on Twitter: @Clayton_Collier or E-mailing him at MaybeNextYearMets@yahoo.com
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[...] Mets Merized Online Posted under Francisco Rodriguez and tagged with Capuano, Remain, Rotation, Should Comments (0) [...]
Totally disagree…Cap has 48 ML wins(53 losses)…and Gee has…how many???
Cap pitched a gem ;ast time out….I am not saying I don’t like what Gee has brought so far…I will say I am wary until after he goes around the league.
I think Collins was hesitant to even use Capuano as a starter this spring and frequently said he preferred him in the bullpen. If you have a choice to give innings to your prospect or a journey man reclamation project on a one year deal, I go with the prospect, especially when he’s pitching well.
And how will he be around the league if he is rotting away in the pen?
Cap has one nice start but do you forget about the 8.96 ERA prior to that start?
Chris is def. The best choice in the rotation over Gee. Gee will get his chance at starting again, but for now long man out of the pen is really where he needs to be. Gee deserves to be in the big leage no question. Maybe even a #4 or 5 starter if theres room for him…but not over Cap. I don’t believe Cap has 150 innings in him this season to injury prone. But as long as he can be there he’s the better choice. Gee will get his shot starting this year I’m sure. But long man for now is really where he needs to be.
“Cap pitched a gem last time out”
Against the Astros….or did you forget to mention that?
The same Astro’s that took two out of three from the Mets or did you forget that?
Am I supposed to be impressed? You’re saying that like the Astros are supposed to be some great team. I’m sorry, was that supposed to be your witty comeback? Because that SUCKED. Not my fault the offense stunk and left multiple men on base against a sorry cast of pitchers like Bud Norris.
I agree with Hodges, But to be honest when in the 1st paragraph you say Gee is a GREAT pitcher, you’ve already lost credibility. What is Roy Haliday if Gee is great.
Well in comparison to the performance of the rest of the rotation yes he has been great.
I do not understand why everyone is so down on a pitcher who has yet to have a bad start and has a career 2.22 ERA. Yes it is only a small sample but wouldn’t you say that a 2.22 ERA is above average?
You are dead wrong on this. Cap has earned the opportunity. I’m not saying he should be in the rotation regardless of how he pitches, but he should be given the opportunity until he proves he cannot handle starting anymore. The guy is a former all-star and if he can put the injuries behind him, then he should be starting. Gee on the other hand is tough and young and resilient and he will not waste away in the pen. He will get plenty of opportunities as it is a very long season, with no Johan, and we are depending on Chris Young to pitch a full season? I don’t think that will be happening. Gee needs to be patient and his time will come. It is a very nice problem to have, having too many capable starters. I remember in 1969 and 1970, there was a young Met pitcher with talent who had a lot of trouble cracking the rotation. He pitched mostly out of the pen and won some huge games down the stretch and in the post season in ’69. He was used as a spot starter but it wasn’t until he got traded away that he found a regular rotation spot in the bigs. His name was Nolan Ryan.
Clayton: Can you please concede that you do not decide a pitchers overall value by his ERA? Please? Dillon Gee threw 93 pitches and off of those 93 pitches, 4 runners scored on Saturday.
Did Murphy make an error yes. But does that mean David Wright’s HR off Galarraga didn’t happen on Sunday as well?
You don’t judge a pitcher’s value solely on their ERA. Nobody else threw the pitches that scored 2 more runs to score. Dillon Gee doesn’t walk off the mound and say “well at least those runs aren’t earned,” when his team is suddenly thrust in a 4-3 game rather than 4-1.
And then Oh by the way he gave up a HR to make it 4-4 in the 6th. The only reason he won that game is because the guy who MADE the error drove in a leading run when Gee was being taken out for Beato anyway.
I like the kid, but giving him this free pass for Saturday has got to stop. He allowed 4 runs to score and blew the lead he was given in the 3rd inning.
The final score wasn’t 6 earned runs to 2 earned runs.
One or the other will “have to rot away in the pen”…in truth,I truly don’t see any mets pen pitcher not getting enough use…If you are asking me to make a choice,I choose the proven vet over the rookie…and remember his ERA can be traced to his appearance in relief..
I checked that before I wrote this. 5.71 ERA as a starter. Still not good at all. 5.71 or 2.31, I would pick 2.31
Talk to me after gee pitches as many age throws as many games as Cap…Don’t. Get me wrong…I would love to see Gee far surpass Cap…it is just that I don’t fall in love after a really short courtship.
I agree with you. I’m just saying he’s had sven very nice starts as a major leaguer, I think the Rick Reed comparison Bobby Ojeda made for Gee was a good one. If it dont work out you could always go back to Capuano and send Gee back to AAA, but to keep a starting pitching prospect in the bullpen doesnt help Gee or the team.
Totally disagree. I’m very encouraged from what I’ve seen out of Capuano. That one pitch to Espinosa goes another way, that start becomes a great outing. He had a great five innings against Colorado before losing it in the 6th. All symptoms of a pitcher coming off an injury rebuilding his arm strength. Then he pitches seven strong innings on Thursday. Gee’s a nice pitcher and all; I’m not saying he’s not worth it. But Capuano deserves to be in the rotation until he proves he doesn’t, and he hasn’t proved he doesn’t.
I’d also like to see a little guts from Gee, too. Murphy put him a tough spot with his error the other day, and Gee promptly gave up two run-scoring hits. When Gee can pick up tough outs like Capuano did getting that double play in the 7th on Thursday, I’ll regard him a little higher.
Okay, you do know we’re talking about 32 year old Chris Capuano here who has a 4.87 ERA since 2007? This is a pitcher with a career un-moneyball whip of 1.361. Shoot why dont we bring John Maine back too while you’re at it. Capuano’s one good start is a fluke not the norm. This is why I wanted Gee to make this team out of spring training.
How come you wanted Gee to make the rotation out of spring training over Cap?
How come Cap’s ERA counts against him here but in reality he had a very good spring and Gee did not. So why did Gee deserve the spot out of Spring Training?
Capuano was just pitching to prove he was healthy, Gee was working on new release points, pitches, you know the kind of stuff a healthy pitcher works on in the spring.
Oh so we get to make excuses for Dillon Gee now?
He pitched with a high 5 ERA in the Spring because of his release points. Cap only pitched well because he was trying to prove he was healthy. Wow… now I get it.
Spring Training stats are just about negligable. Emaus had barely a .200 avg in spring training and won the job anyway.
Yeah they are negligible when they don’t move your argument forward.
haha nice one there Pete. You’re right though… Spring Training the 5th starter job was available to Gee. If Gee had thrown below 2.00 ERA in spring and Cap was 5+, people would be screaming for Gee to be on the opening day roster and Cap in the pen. But because it doesn’t fit, they brush it aside.
Wouldn’t you agree that if Gee had an amazing spring he would have won the 5th spot out of spring? It was practically an open competition. Capuano outpitched everybody for that spot.
You know Cap pitched a decent game against Wash, he just made 2 mistakes but none cost the Mets the game. And his last start was very good. It’s not as though he’s gotten rocked in every start.
I think he’s here to give him a shot in the rotation. Gee will be there when/if Cap, Niese or whoever proves not worthy.
I agree Maniac. Gee should have been in the rotation to start the year. But I did think we would get some measure of success from Capuano. Its not that I do not like Cap, I just think Gee is the best option.
Ma iac.
I think Cap had a little more to prove than health…the guy has his career on the line,Again,we are all mets fans..we want them to win and we certainly know pitching wins…Let Cap pitch his wY out of the rotation before you let Gee into the rotation..
Exactly, Gee is a good kid but he’s just starting out, what’s the rush to anoint him the ace of the staff already? Cap is a Met and he should be supported. These Mets fans that think he should be sent to the pen in favor of a kid with a cup of coffee in the bigs so far, are a joke. They know nothing about baseball. They think it is all numbers on a page. They wouldn’t know talent from make believe if it had a label on it. And they certainly understand nothing of the difference between a player’s mindset when he is a veteran, from when he is a rookie.
“These Mets fans that think he should be sent to the pen in favor of a kid with a cup of coffee in the bigs so far, are a joke. They know nothing about baseball. They think it is all numbers on a page. They wouldn’t know talent from make believe if it had a label on it.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA
And who else
Itches a gem against the Astros?do you remember that?
You’ll just fall in love in anyone who plays a gem against a crap team, won’t you? I bet if Pelf pitches a gem against a garbage team, you’ll say “lock up Pelfrey” and “Pelfrey is an ace”, right? LOL.
When Dillon Gee pitched, the DBacks scored 4 runs. Again, I understand what an ERA is but that’s a stat not a performance. Dillon Gee allowed 4 runners to score, even though his stat line said 2ER. A manager doesn’t look at earned runs versus runs scored. He wants somebody who gets the job done.
Gee gave up 2 hits that lead to a run each. I doubt Terry Collins is thinking “well it doesn’t matter because Murphy made an error.”
If Gee’s stat line was 6IP, 4ER on Saturday, would we still be having this discussion?
I like Gee, but I like what Cap has and I think they are both a waste in the pen right now. And you’re paying more $ to Cap and Gee isn’t dominating anybody. He can still get better in the minors.
He allowed 4 runs to score because Murphy couldnt turn the inning ending double play. Murphy not only didnt get the two outs but he failed to get any. The next play was a bloop that dropped in front of Pridie who Clohen said he was playing far to deep and said so throughout the game. He allowed 2 runs, not 4!
Capuano has allowed 13 earned runs in 19.2 innings! These are not make believe runs like in the example you cited, these are real earned runs, yes Capuano sucks that bad.
No he allowed 4 runs to score because after Murphy made an error he gave up 2 hits that scored 2 runs.
By your argument, Armando Gallaraga only gave up 1 run on Sunday.
Murphy’s error in the 4th would have been 2 outs, not an inning ending DP.
I love the fact that you’re calling earned runs not make believe runs. A pitchers job is to get outs, not to avoid earned runs. If a pitcher comes into a tie game with a runner on 2nd and they give up a double… they don’t get an earned run but do you come on MMO and talk about the pitcher who left the runner on, or the guy who let him score?
So did the Mets win because they had the least amount of earned runs scored against? Which one is more make believe?
most likely they are doing what team usually do, which is use the veteran until he proves he can’t get the job done (in the case where there is not an obvious mis match of performance).
gee is going to get plenty of starts this year regardless.
there is also the possibility that if Capuano is pitching well for the next couple of months, that he will be traded in july.
also, the team is not going to be making decisions based just off of stats 3 weeks into the season. They see these guys play, so they know if a SP is dealing and getting beat on bloops and bleeders, or giving up rockets that are finding gloves.
Well Gee has not had great defense behind him.
Also, the veteran situation I would normally agree with you, but Capuano is a pitcher one year removed from three years of injury and is a one year filler until Mejia, Harvey or other prospects to fully develop and become major league ready.
Since we are at the case where the prospect, namely Gee, is ready, he should be in the rotation.
…and besides maybe Chris Young is not as healthy as we hope. I hope I’m wrong but it’s just another reason why keeping Gee here makes all the sense in the world. There is no use in keeping Carrasco around when Gee can be ready to help out in so many ways.
I really, really like our lineup now and we just need the most talented people up here for our pitching staff as soon as possible.
So are you agreeing or disagreeing that Gee should remain in the rotation?
If I was the manager I would keep Gee in the rotation and use Cap as our primary lefty out of the bullpen…and take it from there
Use Cap as the lefty specialist instead of Byrdak? I never thought of that. Not a bad idea! The only problem with that is doesn’t it compromise the use of his ability to go more than just 1-3 outs?
I haven’t given it much thought either but I can see using him as a lefty specialist and since he’s also started he can work long relief too.
It depends on the situation game to game.
True. But we also need more than just one lefty in the pen regardless. Another reason why Cap should go to the pen.
Wow Bayonne I think this is the first time we completely agree on a Mets topic Lol!
i still don’t understand why alderson did not send gee down. i understand that d.j. was horrible, but this really screws with gee now. it is great to know he is on the major league team after we have waited for him for two seasons, but this actually does not do alderson or collins any favors because they now have to figure out what the hell to do with gee and capuano if that remains the case.
I actually think in Gee’s case it could hurt him by sending him down. Some guys adapt to their surroundings and become good major leaguers even though their minor league numbers are not good, that’s why it’s sometimes almost impossible to tell who can make it and who can’t.
I thin Gee’s done enough down there and it’s time to keep him here.
I 34th this.
Mike Pelfrey’s #.
I 35th this. Dillon Gee’s #.
In the words of the great Charlie Sheen “winning”
I’m gonna go ahead and say Clayton’s probably right by a mile here.
There are many different arguments ensuing here. Gee should not be in the bullpen. No way. You can’t just take a SP and throw him in the bullpen and hope it works. It works for some players, yes. But he has the potential to be a solid 4 or 5 (Dare I say 3?) in an MLB rotation at some point and putting him in the bullpen, as Clayton notes, will endanger his growth.
He’d be better off starting in AAA in my opinion – but right now, I think he needs to start, period. And his stuff is just about MLB ready…I like letting pitchers learn on their own, so I think letting him have a few more MLB starts can only help him.
Capuano is no ace. He never will be and he never was. He can be a solid long man and that’s about it in my opinion. If Santana were to come back ,he would have been the first man sent to the bullpen (Santana-Pelfrey-Niese-Dickey-Young) and we need a second lefty in that bullpen. NEEEED. And we don’t really have a long man in there so…yeah.
Well Cap was an ace in 2005 with the Brewers when he won 18 games and an ERA just under 4.
But you are correct, Gee should be in the rotation and we do need more than just Byrdak as a lefty in the pen.
Cap is here to put a band-aid over the rotation spot for one year until Santana returns and/or when our prospects can fufill the position. Our prospect is showing us he can be an above average starter and yet he is banished to the long relief role. A job where you are rarely seen unless a SP gets rocked, the bullpen has no other arms, or an extra inning game.
Dillon Gee has become the Mejia of 2010.
I don’t think he was an ace, IMO.
He pitched to an ERA of about 3.99, as you mentioned, and won the 18 games with decent run support. He allows about as many H as IP over his career. I don’t like that.
See, the comparison for Gee/Meija…at least Meija had late inning bullpen stuff, you know? Gee doesn’t exactly have the type of pitches for the pen.
Yes. Gee does not have an overwhelming fastball at 89-MPH. He relies on his exceptional control.
It sounds to me that Capuano and Livan Hernandez are very much alike in their pitching types? correct me if I am wrong.
I’d like to think so, except I think Caps provides a little bit more on the K meter.
He’s around 7 in K/9 and Livan is around 5.5.
Well also Livan has never been on the DL in his entire career I believe.
Right.
Him and Lowe I think are the only active players who have played 12+ seasons without being on the DL.
Yeah, Lowe and Livan are the only ones who’ve done it for 12+ years though.
Which is amazing when you think about it.
Livan’s nearing 3,000 IP without a DL trip.
I saw somewhere that there were like 4 or 5 active pitchers who have never been on the DL in their career. I remember Lowe and Livan were on it. I cannot remember the others
Yea, too bad neither has consistant success Lol.
Clayton is correct, although I would not rush to put Capuano in the pen just yet either.
It is dumb and short sighted to turn the HARD TO FIND starter who can pitch every 5th day into a long reliver who might not get into a game more than once a month and even then how good will a guy who has bench rust all over him be when he does get in there?
Would anyone support putting Pelfrey in the Pen since he has been worse than all the other? How about Dickey? Why don’t you?
Does it have something to do with the fact that they are starters and by placing them in the pen you would be wasting them?
Gee should have gone back to Buffalo and kept his stuff sharp and fresh so that when the final shoe drops on the rotation he would be ready and IN PRACTICE to come back up and start.
No matter what you think of Young and Capuano you have to admit that the chances they will both last a whole season without further injury is nill. And by putting Gee in the Pen means you do not have a guy who can just jump in and be expected to pitch 6 or 7 innings.
The best move would be to send Gee down or to send one of the other starters down instead so that what your left with is starters actually STARTING not being demoted to minor roles that rarely get into a game.
Maybe a trade is in order instead. but to take a starter and make him a reliever is the same kind oif move you all slammed Omar for making with mejia. And face the facts, Gee has been a lot more successful as a starter than Mejia was!
It is true, Gee has been much more successful as a starter than Mejia in the MLB in respect to 2010.
I say Capuano because not only has he struggled, but his and Chris Young’s purpose here was to cover the rotation sports for one year until the likes of Gee, Mejia , Harvey etc. are ready to take their place. Now that we have someone ready to do so, why not put him in?
They are doing almost the same that Omar’s regime did to Mejia!
As for Dickey and Pelfrey, Dickey has a respectable 4.10 ERA and Pelfrey has in the past few starts lowered his ERA from 17.25 to 7.23, not a great figure at all but I believe that Pelfrey’s problem is he changes his arm speeds so much from fastball to breaking ball that he tips his pitches to the batters. He doesn’t have homer after homer leaving the park, he just keeps walking people and getting knocks off of him.
People are seeing Pelfrey’s pitches and what they are and are holding on the breaking balls until they get a walk or ripping the fastball for a base hit or a double. But that last start may have shown that Warthen may have finally noticed this and corrected the problem.
If we are out of it and Young or Capuano are pitching well some contender will trade for them. They are not long term solutions anyway. Gee will get his spot sometime this year.
Right 22. thats a given, but it makes a lot more sense to have Gee go down to the Minors where he can continue to be a starting pitcher and called up when a REAL opening comes around instead of putting him in the pen, having his starting ability rust and have to stretch him out before you can actually start him.
IMO having a starter ready to call up at a moments notice is better than having a guy who could start sitting around rotting on the bench waiting for a starter to get blown out so he can get some innings in a game he can’t possibly win even if he pitches lights out because it was already lost before he got the call.
Agree
I am not down on Gee…I would welcome him to the starting rotation if we could fit him in. But I feel he has to prove himself over time.Again,we NEED solid pitching to win….all teams do…I love having Gee on the roster.but until Cap proves he cannot cut it…my choice is Cap…for the reasons stated over the life of this post.
Well why doesn’t Cap have to prove himself?, only one good start this year.
Gee has never had a bad major league outing. It seems pretty clear, to me at least, that the better option statistically is the young, successful Gee over the struggling veteran who is one year or two removed from three years of rehabbing tommy john surgeries.
Capuano’s earned it by being a past 18 game winner in the Major Leagues. If he blows up during a few starts then sure ditch him, but its April and he’s shown you he can be a valuable starting pitcher and you’re paying him more money than you are Dillon Gee who has options
Capuano’s 18 win season was well before his double tommy john surgery. He is a much different pitcher now.
And you can hardly say that Capuano has shown he can be a valueable starting pitcher. He had one good start, against the Astros. 1/3 good starts is not something to be praised.
Gee has shown alot moreso that he can be a valueable starter than Cap this year.
Gee can be a part of our future if allowed to develop properly. No matter what Capuano does, he will not be a part of our long term future. Putting Gee in the pen is trying to rescue a last place ball club in April. Absurdly short sighted.
The reality is we had 5 major league starters. You may not like them all, but there was no reason to add a 6th without sending one back down. This has the makings of a TERRIBLE decision. Something that if Omar did (and indeed he did do it last year) he’d be pilloried for it on these boards.
Taking a “great” pitcher out of the rotation? I like Gee a lot, but let’s see him win double digit games at the major league level before even calling him a good pitcher. Capuano’s done that, and after his outstanding start, he deserves to stay in the rotation until he proves he’s not worthy.
A career 2.22 ERA is great.
Gee has never had a bad start. Cap has only had one good start.