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	<title>Comments on: Doug&#8217;s Dugout: Revolving Doors, Sour Grapes and Whipping Posts</title>
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	<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html</link>
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		<title>By: Doug Branch</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147437</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Branch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 11:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s an interesting debate: How do you develop relief pitchers?  You can convince a young player with a popping fastball that he is the closer of the future and big money awaits,but who aspires to be a set-up man? 

The answer is no one.

Usually when a player is ticketed for the pen early in his career it&#039;s because he couldn&#039;t cut it as a starter and does not have the electric stuff to close.  That is why relievers are so up and down year to year.

If they were any good they&#039;d be vying for a starters role.  

Here&#039;s an idea: Develop bonafide starters-like the Mets did in the sixties and eighties (copying the Orioles developmental model) and train them to pitch deep into games. Even exceed 100 pitches occasionally.

Then the bullpen is not stressed to the point of crumbling. Baseball is too specialized anyway, the Mets need to go back to their roots.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an interesting debate: How do you develop relief pitchers?  You can convince a young player with a popping fastball that he is the closer of the future and big money awaits,but who aspires to be a set-up man? </p>
<p>The answer is no one.</p>
<p>Usually when a player is ticketed for the pen early in his career it&#8217;s because he couldn&#8217;t cut it as a starter and does not have the electric stuff to close.  That is why relievers are so up and down year to year.</p>
<p>If they were any good they&#8217;d be vying for a starters role.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an idea: Develop bonafide starters-like the Mets did in the sixties and eighties (copying the Orioles developmental model) and train them to pitch deep into games. Even exceed 100 pitches occasionally.</p>
<p>Then the bullpen is not stressed to the point of crumbling. Baseball is too specialized anyway, the Mets need to go back to their roots.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Donal</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147353</link>
		<dc:creator>Donal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then they make changes.

You want a guaranteed relief pitcher? I don&#039;t think one has ever existed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then they make changes.</p>
<p>You want a guaranteed relief pitcher? I don&#8217;t think one has ever existed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147350</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Signing washed up relievers can never be the answer. Neither can riding the same horses year after year (see Pedro Feliciano). The best way to a solid and dare I say it, dominating bullpen is by having a pipeline. That is through drafting and amateur signings you stockpile a system of power arms. The Mets are making progress is that respect with the emergence of Matt Harvey, Jeuerys Familia, Nick Carr, Ryan Fraser and Brad Holt, but there is still a very long way to go before their minor league system is healthy and near the top amongst other organizations. When there are four or five legitimate power arms at each level of the minor league system, we will have a pool from which to replenish the bullpen, at will.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Signing washed up relievers can never be the answer. Neither can riding the same horses year after year (see Pedro Feliciano). The best way to a solid and dare I say it, dominating bullpen is by having a pipeline. That is through drafting and amateur signings you stockpile a system of power arms. The Mets are making progress is that respect with the emergence of Matt Harvey, Jeuerys Familia, Nick Carr, Ryan Fraser and Brad Holt, but there is still a very long way to go before their minor league system is healthy and near the top amongst other organizations. When there are four or five legitimate power arms at each level of the minor league system, we will have a pool from which to replenish the bullpen, at will.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147346</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They&#039;re neck n&#039; neck, but by Monday morning we will have a considerable lead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re neck n&#8217; neck, but by Monday morning we will have a considerable lead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147345</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But what if the bullpen sucks?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what if the bullpen sucks?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mr North Jersey</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147344</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr North Jersey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I though the Cubs held the lead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I though the Cubs held the lead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147343</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Collins can bullshlt with the best of &#039;em.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Collins can bullshlt with the best of &#8216;em.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147342</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Mets lead the league in player transactions already.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mets lead the league in player transactions already.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: t agee</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147334</link>
		<dc:creator>t agee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These are things that are supposed to be ingrained in players before they get up here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are things that are supposed to be ingrained in players before they get up here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: t agee</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147332</link>
		<dc:creator>t agee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More innings are expected in the beginning of the season.  No one wants their starting pitchers going 7 or 8 right off the bat.  Pelf lasting only 2 1/3 made it much more pronounced and the one guy who could get away with 7 or 8 split a nail.  No way do I want Young and Capuano going deep early, that could wreck what chance of a season we have.

     Lets face it the days of the 100 M dollar bullpen are over.  Not that that produced any results for us.  Schowenweiss was a waste of 11M, Mota 5M, Wagner couldn&#039;t even close out a game against the NYY because it &quot;wasn&#039;t a save situation.&quot;  He pitched well overall but had a 10 ERA in the NLCS and couldn&#039;t even be on the mound in game 7.  He also wasn&#039;t available down the stretch in 2007 and blew a few before he went down.  2008 he was out almost the whole year.  Even K-Rod is a high wire act every night.  The only guy who was both healthy and reliable was Feliciano and it&#039;s a good thing we didn&#039;t sign him for a few reasons.  Even Takahashi is off to a bad start with 3 IP in 6 games and 8 ERA and a 27 WHIP.

     That kind of huge money should be put into the starting rotation, not the pen.  A combination of trade acquisitions, FA, and your own IFA and draft choices should average out at about 50 - 60 M a year for 5 starters and 2 swingmen as long as you have 3 of them in their team control years, then develop and GROOM a prospect to become your closer.  Parnell could have been that guy but no one here ever has the patience to develop a young pitcher.  One pitch, regardless of it&#039;s speed will never work, especially if it doesn&#039;t come with some late movement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More innings are expected in the beginning of the season.  No one wants their starting pitchers going 7 or 8 right off the bat.  Pelf lasting only 2 1/3 made it much more pronounced and the one guy who could get away with 7 or 8 split a nail.  No way do I want Young and Capuano going deep early, that could wreck what chance of a season we have.</p>
<p>     Lets face it the days of the 100 M dollar bullpen are over.  Not that that produced any results for us.  Schowenweiss was a waste of 11M, Mota 5M, Wagner couldn&#8217;t even close out a game against the NYY because it &#8220;wasn&#8217;t a save situation.&#8221;  He pitched well overall but had a 10 ERA in the NLCS and couldn&#8217;t even be on the mound in game 7.  He also wasn&#8217;t available down the stretch in 2007 and blew a few before he went down.  2008 he was out almost the whole year.  Even K-Rod is a high wire act every night.  The only guy who was both healthy and reliable was Feliciano and it&#8217;s a good thing we didn&#8217;t sign him for a few reasons.  Even Takahashi is off to a bad start with 3 IP in 6 games and 8 ERA and a 27 WHIP.</p>
<p>     That kind of huge money should be put into the starting rotation, not the pen.  A combination of trade acquisitions, FA, and your own IFA and draft choices should average out at about 50 &#8211; 60 M a year for 5 starters and 2 swingmen as long as you have 3 of them in their team control years, then develop and GROOM a prospect to become your closer.  Parnell could have been that guy but no one here ever has the patience to develop a young pitcher.  One pitch, regardless of it&#8217;s speed will never work, especially if it doesn&#8217;t come with some late movement.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: K Maxx</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147330</link>
		<dc:creator>K Maxx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Broken Promises - 1. Better fundamentals 2. Pitchers walking fewer batters 3. Better plate approach]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Broken Promises &#8211; 1. Better fundamentals 2. Pitchers walking fewer batters 3. Better plate approach</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Donal</title>
		<link>http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/04/dougs-dugout-revolving-doors-sour-grapes-and-whipping-posts.html#comment-147326</link>
		<dc:creator>Donal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=48313#comment-147326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It will probably help when the starters can give better performances and be counted on to go at least 6 a night. Once they do that, we don&#039;t expose the bullpen as much and don&#039;t have to worry about shifting guys in and out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will probably help when the starters can give better performances and be counted on to go at least 6 a night. Once they do that, we don&#8217;t expose the bullpen as much and don&#8217;t have to worry about shifting guys in and out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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