29
2011
New Guys Make Their First Head Scratcher Of The New Season
An article by 
As most of you read earlier, the Mets designated Manny Acosta for assignment today and opted to take Blaine Boyer north instead.
I’m not going to go into all the reasons why I preferred we kept Acosta instead. Hey, I’m a big boy and I can live with the decision. But when speaking to reporters about the decision, Collins said something that really didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. I’m not knocking him by any means, but for the first time since he became manager he reminded me of, dare I say it?
As you know, the thrust for my argument in keeping Acosta was that he was a proven commodity, was coming off a solid season, and was a flyball pitcher, something that’s a big plus in the wide open spaces of Citi Field.
This afternoon, Collins explained the decision to keep Boyer by saying this:
“I’m a big groundball guy,” the manager said. “His numbers state that he doesn’t really give up big innings, and he makes them hit the ball on the ground. We’re going to need that.”
Now normally, I wouldn’t even give that comment a second thought, but coming from the same guy who said he viewed second base as an offensive position, I would think he would choose the flyball pitcher over the groundball pitcher given that all the additional grounders could exploit the defensive inefficiencies of Brad Emaus.
The other day during my conference call with Sandy Alderson, somebody asked him what goes into making these types of decisions and if spring performance was a strong consideration. As I expected he would say, he mentioned past performance as the main barometer because it represents a larger body of work. I agree, so lets take a look…
Blaine Boyer, 29, had a 4.26 ERA and a 1.54 WHIP in 54 games for the Diamondbacks last season. He struck out 29 and walked 29 in 57 innings pitched.
Manny Acosta, 29, had a 2.95 ERA and a 1.21 WHIP in 41 games for the Mets last season. He struck out 42 and walked 18 in 40 innings pitched.
It’s just a real head scratcher as I could easily think of a half dozen reasons to keep Manny Acosta… and maybe only one reason to keep Boyer.
I’m thinking that they just wanted to get rid of as many Omar Minaya guys as possible so they could establish their own identity, which is cool. and okay with me
But when the difference in performance level is this far apart between two players as in the case between these two players, you just gotta take Manny Acosta, you just gotta.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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Great stats. The numbers say a lot about the decision.
I agree Joe I found it strange to hear Collins say that when he put 2b as more an offensive position than defensive position. Hopefully in the coming days someone will point that out to Collins to see if he can expand on that statement.
I think Collins said 2B was an offensive position to take castillo out of the mix. Of course you need a good glove at 2nd, but some O production doesn’t hurt either….As for Acosta and Boyer, I like Manny, don’t get me wrong, I’m still hoping he somehow slips through waivers but that’s highly unlikely. My point though, is that those #s are from last year, which is over. Obviously they saw something this spring that helped them make their decision, and who knows, maybe Acosta is showing signs of wearing down or an upcoming injury. Health was stated as a big reason guys made the pen this year. Something else to consider is having different typed of pitchers in the pen. Maybe Acosta’s stuff was too similar to some of the other guys, and that would help opposing hitters’ timing on them.
Bad, bad decision. I really didn’t care at first, but when I saw your stats I felt like someone threw a bucket of ice cold water in my face. What in the world are they thinking!!!???!!!
The strikeout to walk numbers are the tell-all. The fact is this was a bad decision.
Here’s a suggestion. Alderson said the following as quoted from the article, “As I expected he would say, he mentioned past performance as the main barometer because it represents a larger body of work.”
Acosta had a better season last year, yes, but Boyer has had a significantly better career. Boyers career resembles more of Acosta’s last season while Acosta’s career resembles Boyer’s last season. Keep in mind, Acosta put up those numbers in Citi Field and Boyer put up his in the desert. I think it’s six of one, half dozen of the other, but Boyer’s career and larger sample size says he’s the better option.
Maybe that’s why the decision went the way it did.
very good point
The other underlying factor is that we will still play half of our games outside of Citi where the groundball works and flyball doesn’t.
The groundball guy works in every stadium provided you have a decent fielding team.
If there is any concern is it might expose Emaus’ glove, but you can’t pick your pitchers based on that.
If Acosta passes through waivers then no harm but I doubt he will.
I think we are missing the forrest here…
While the Acosta/Boyer comparison might make sense thats the wrong guy to be comparing him to.
Beato has done well no argument but Sandy’s statement only works if Beato wasn’t being looked at. If past performance is more important thats fine but if Options trump performance then really the performance is still a secondary concern.
Would Beato beat Acosta if he could be sent down?
Would there be any need to compare Acosta to Boyer if that roster spot was open?
Would Beato make the team if he wasn’t a rule 5 pick and foced to be kept on the ML roster?
Now I’m not saying Sandy is making a blunder here by keeping Beato but he really should have worked the issue of who to keep from the Beato side not the Acosta Boyer side.
Hum, a real head scratcher to start the season, this must be the Mets.
I have had my doubts about Acosta cause I saw a few times last year and in Florida where he let a possible hold into a blow up, no way are we coming back inning but if as you say he is a flyball pitcher than who better to pitch at Citi than Acosta.
The fact that Boyer did not impress a pitching starved D Backs enough to keep him makes me wonder when SA says past performance matters more than Spring stats, hut?
I would rather have a ground ball pitcher no matter what. The MEST have a very good infield. Easmus will be fine at 2B. Just keep Murphy away from there.
I have to think that this decision was based on more than a side-by-side comparison of each players’ 2010 statistics.
I think Alderson and Collins have done a fine job, considering the hand they were given. That’s not to say they haven’t contradicted themselves from time to time. Just 24-36 hours before Nick Evans got the axe, Terry said he was working very hard to keep Evans on the Mets 25 man roster. History says that either Terry wasn’t very persuasive in selling Nick, or that Terry underestimated the alternatives. Either way, it’s a blemish on Terry’s leadership.
Another point: rom time to time I pick up vibes that our front office is not quite as secure as they want to project to us. With deference to my friend and fellow Mets fan t agee, the choice of Willie Harris over Nick Evans is debatable. It is a ‘win now, worry about tomorrow later decision’. Here is the link to Toby Hyde’s detailed analysis:
http://www.metsminorleagueblog.com/
Not being able to retain a guy that has been up and down until his options are gone is NOT a blemish on a NEW manager’s leadership.
Not even close…….
Vibes? Really?
You are over analyzing this. Groundballs are better than flyballs and also better than strikeouts because you can induce two outs on a double play.
Again saber speaks in absolutes,
Groundballs are not always better than flyballs and flyballs are not always better than groundballs and i’m certainly not gonna say groundballs are better than strikeouts unless of course there is a DP but ALL situations are different.
A groundball may not be what you want if the infield is in..unless u hope it’s hit directly at somebody, there the K would probably be better if u don’t get the DP.
CitiField may be a case where a flyball pitcher is in fact better than a groundball pitcher. There are too many variables to speak in such absolutes. Fenway park you may not want a flyball pitcher but at CitiField or Target field u just might.
The ground ball never turns into a triple or HR (que the 5 times or so in the history of the Major Leagues that it has)
The ground ball plays well in every stadium.
The ground ball can get you two outs.
The ground ball pitcher has a lower pitch count than the strikeout pitcher so therefore can go deeper as a starter or two innings instead of one.
I’m sure Acosta will be picked up and we’ll be able to compare the two. I would have kept Acosta but I understand it was close and the bullpen really didn’t have any stress on it last year even down a man (Ollie)
groundballs take bad hops, groundballs give the opportunity for a bad fielder to make an error (or anybody for that matter) and groundballs can sneak through the infield with the infield in.
I’m not concerned about pitch counts in this argument. I just look for the better pitcher for my team be it strikeout guy or groundball or flyball guy. It all depends on what type of team i’m building.
And jeez..do any stadiums use artificial turf anymore? If so than groundballs move faster on those surfaces. That could be good or bad.
Ground balls take bad hops. Really Bayonne. do they. Sounds like another of your myriad of excuses. Having a guy in the pen that can induce a ground ball has been a staple of Major League bull pens since Bruce Sutter.
And Astro turf? Whoa baby, now your really reaching. Name me one artificial turf field in the entire National League.
On second thought, your right. We should build our bullpen based around the once every six years we play in Toronto.
Really Bayonne you just continue to impress me with your “knowledge” of baseball.
And another thing Bayonne. The whole reason you play IN is cause your HOPING for a ground ball. Of course if you had ever “coached” above T ball you would know that.
“Having a guy in the pen that can induce a ground ball has been a staple of Major League bull pens since Bruce Sutter”
No kidding you MORON. That wasn’t what you were talking about when i responded to you in the first place. That’s situational..what u said originally wasn’t situational, you were just talking in absolutes. Naturally you side step and you start in with other things that are not mentioned. You always do that, you write entire novels here on a daily basis doing things like that.
I was also ASKING if there are any artificial surfaces anymore, that’s all.
agee, don’t pretend to be a nice guy like u occasionally do, that’s why i really didn’t repond to your ACT in the shoutbox the other night. Your T-ball comment about me was really DUMB. Then again most of the stuff you say is really dumb.
You spew out a lot of information and you’re read up on the minor leagues systems a lot. More than I ever will but it still does not translate into baseball knowledge which you have very little.
Every single response by you is about the history of the Mets drafting and their farm system. Basically, in a nutshell, your answer to every post is well if the Mets would have drafted better starting back in 1962 or 61, whatever….then they would be better today. That’s how you basically answer everything.
I was simply pointing out the benefits OVERALL of the GB. You were pointing out the half a percent of time one of the 700 best baseball players in the world have to deal with a bad hop.
You brought up astro turf which has been eliminated in baseball here in the US.
You brought up the fact that GB’s can be a disadvantage when you play the infield in when the very reason you play in is because your hoping to get a ground ball. That’s something every baseball fan on every single level knows and yet your trying to claim it can be a bad thing.
Well of course it can be a bad thing JACKASS. It’s a desperation play. Get a GB at you, turn two. Have no time to react and it gets through, give up two.
What ‘effin planet do you come from anyway. You can dish it out but you can’t take it.
I don’t give a fiddlers **** if you respond to me in the shoutbox or anywhere else.
You don’t know s*** about shinola when it comes to baseball.
You want to play the infield in and bring in a flyball pitcher. Why don’t you just bring your infielders a lawn chair?
Your too stupid to understand the ramifications of us drafting Eddie Kunz, Nate Vinyard, Brent Rustich and Stephen Clyne in 2007 while the Braves were drafting Jason Heyward, Freddie Freeman and Craig Kimbrell.
It’s that same stupidity that causes you to actually write that “Omar put together a good team.” Despite the fact that he inherited the two best players, got another one with the owners check book, another in a salary dump, and filled in behind them with below average players, including a bench that all had to be DFA’d mid season, 2 roster spots for a BP pitcher and a DH, 14 hitters who couldn’t even get OB more often than two of the starting pitchers and actually drafted all those washouts while Atlanta was regrouping to kick our asses for another 14 years straight.
Your right I’m not a nice guy, not when it comes to out and out stupidity.
“You were pointing out the half a percent of time one of the 700 best baseball players in the world have to deal with a bad hop”
I bet it’s a LOT higher than that
“You brought up astro turf which has been eliminated in baseball here in the US”
For the 3rd time, i was ASKING. So your saying artificial turf has been eliminated from all parks? Okay, i’ll check that out.
Here’s something I said
“A groundball may not be what you want if the infield is in..unless u hope it’s hit directly at somebody, there the K would probably be better if u don’t get the DP”
This is your response which had NOTHING to do with what i said in the first place.
“You brought up the fact that GB’s can be a disadvantage when you play the infield in when the very reason you play in is because your hoping to get a ground ball. That’s something every baseball fan on every single level knows and yet your trying to claim it can be a bad thing.
Well of course it can be a bad thing JACKASS. It’s a desperation play. Get a GB at you, turn two. Have no time to react and it gets through, give up two.”
That’s your response to what I said and again..it has NOTHING to do with what I said in the first place.
“You want to play the infield in and bring in a flyball pitcher. Why don’t you just bring your infielders a lawn chair?”
Don’t know where you got that from. Are you drinking?
“You don’t know s*** about shinola when it comes to baseball”
I know you don’t believe that.
“Your too stupid to understand the ramifications of us drafting Eddie Kunz, Nate Vinyard, Brent Rustich and Stephen Clyne in 2007 while the Braves were drafting Jason Heyward, Freddie Freeman and Craig Kimbrell.”
??????
Okay i’m gonna leave it at that. Somehow tagee managed to bring the draft and Omar Minaya into my response to Chris.
The guy is nuts.
It’s easy to see these guys are not as smart as THEY and CERTAIN Mets fans think they are. This wasnt a baseball decision, this was an “I’m picking my guy no matter what” decision. In other words the same sort of thing Omar would do. Lets stop exalting them and just see how the season goes. Lets go Mets
really? Acosta was here for 1 year. If anything, he is a Braves guy! and Boyer was a MiL invite. somehow I really don’t think these guys will risk their jobs taking a lesser guy just because he isn’t “theirs”
You are clueless! Go spew your ignorance on some other poor slob.
Who is exalting them? Keep making up garbage.
What is your problem? Am I even talking to you? There is plenty of exalting going around on this site. You show up here leaving comments for last 3 weeks without knowing anything of the last 5 months, so stay out of it.
No
You made a comment on a public message board. You were talking to everyone.
I don’t see much exalting going on, but plenty of bashing. Why nopt take your own advice and see how the season goes?
“This wasnt a baseball decision, this was an “I’m picking my guy no matter what” decision.”
I respectfully disagree with this opinion you just shared Maniac. If you can expand on why you feel this is the case that may help but I think it is just who fits best right now with what they are trying to do.
What does “no matter what” even imply if I can ask?
Do you mean Collins said I don’t care if player x is better and my guy is worse i want my guy “no matter what”?
Heck what does the term “My Guy” even imply when you are using it?
No, in my opinion to say the decision was a “I’m picking my guy no matter what” is an opinion that without further explanation just doesn’t really sound reasonable.
I may just not have seen it or maybe my definition of exalt is different then yours but I don’t recall seeing anyone here on MMO “exalting them”. Who ever “them” is.
gotta look at the body of work. Acosta also did not pitch that many innings (40) so really a small sample size (a big reason RPs can fluctuate so much year to year).
so, other stuff went into this.
Acosta did seem to have a lousy year with inherited runners (bad numbers in those situations), and he also pretty much only pitched in low leverage (mop up) situations. The pen also now has a few other power guys, so they probably wanted a different look (GB guy for when they need a DP). Plus of course, career results.
Boyer also IIRC added a new pitch this year? that might come into play.
Sure, a fan can scratch their head, and I know it is fashionable to rag on the Met FO (old or new), but you have to remember that they saw everything these guys did in ST, every BP session, scrimmage, etc. And putting it all together, they think boyer gives them a better shot at more wins.
I prefer the ground ball pitcher too but in this case Acosta I think was the better choice. Not by a big amount but big enough of an amount that I would have gone with him.
To me the real head scratcher is Harris over Evans. Lets face it, this team is not a finished product. For what Harris gives you (2nd back up CFer, 3rd back up 2nd Basemen, good corner D and pinch runner) you could get from the farm (Newenhaus CF, Turner 2B) True you’d have to burn options with both of them and who knows if Newenhaus even could play CF, but this is the thing. If Pagan goes down AND either Bay, Beltran or Hairston do too, then the seasons over anyway. We might as well find out about Nuwenhaus and while we’re at it find out about Fern/Evans in RF or Fern/Duda in LF.
Evans could also have spelled Davis against LHP on occasion and the mere fact that he’s on the bench would prevent other managers from bringing in the lefty against Thole or Davis (or Duda) He would also have 4 years of team control remaining where Harris is one and done and as long as we have Fern and Duda around, could most likely use a RH compliment.
I also don’t think that Harris would have been picked up and therefore we could have had both. Maybe we still can. We’ll see.
Acosta had good peripherals last season but was mainly good in low leverage situations starting off an inning. With runners on, he allowed a whopping 42% of inherited runners to score which is terrible for a reliever. Plus, Boyer showed up this ST with a better and faster- 94 2 seamer that he didn’t have previously. Plus, Warthen taught him a different grip on his slider which also improved him.
“I’m thinking that they just wanted to get rid of as many Omar Minaya guys as possible so they could establish their own identity, which is cool. and okay with me” – joe
no chance that is true and fire-able offense if true. it is not about identity, it is about winning with the best players. but again, no chance alderson is stupid enough to care about such a nonsensical dumb fan mentality thing like that.