I wasn’t really concerned or even claiming to be informed of the provisions of the incentives only that they wanted that kind of money if they did what they expect themselves to do and Sandy basically gave them the provision so that if they did manage to accomplish those goals they would be duly compensated for achieving those goals.

But the fact that the provisions are there does not mean the Mets have any expectations of what they should be capable of nor are their plans contingent (and ruined) if they don’t make it as a starter.

Of course you hope they do win the job as a starter because a starter is much more valuable and important than filling in a bullpen spot and the provisions simply give everyone the option to go to plan B without it costing the team or the player if he does manage to achieve those goals and earn the salary.

Its a very fair deal, I don’t know that Sandy is COUNTING on them being in the rotation but I’m sure he does HOPE that happens.

The deal is very much a “Lets not take things for granted” approach to trying to solve the problems without impacting the budget. If they perform and achieve the goals then they will get compensated according to their performance which does not lock Sandy into doing something he doesn’t WANT to do or that the pitcher has not earned via his performance.

The structure itself is based on the MOST he might contribute but the provisions are such that if he doesn’t it does not limit Sandy’s options and/or force him to start the guy simply because the contract has been built on the HOPES or assumption he will become a starter!

So it’s not like the cotract means no starter we are screwed. Or if the pitcher falls off those marks he pitched badly or was a waste. We will simply pay for whatever we get.
The incentives may be easily achievable by the pitcher but only if he pitches well enough and stays healthy enough to earn them.

Thats all I was trying to get accross there.
The structure reflects the possibilities but My opinion of what Sandy did was sure I’ll pay you that if you do this this and that, but that structure does not guarantee a spot in the rotation nor does it mean they are more likely to win a spot than someone who outpitches them in ST.

The structure is that of “ALL OPTIONS CONSIDERED!”

I’m not all that sure that those provisions are there because the Mets insisted or only considered them as starters more than they themselves prefer to be starters and the Mets had to make some money promises to them if they were.

I don’t think the Mets (or Sandy in general) was banking on them being in nthe rotation (they sure wouldn’t mind it if they are pitching well) but the pitchers themselves wanted starter money and would not sign unless they got it. In a way those provisions are the compromise provisions. Sandy isn’t promising them a rotation spot and isn’t really obligated to give them one but if he does he promised to pay them accordingly.

So they still have to earn it, They won’t be kept or dismissed based on those provisions basically all they mean is if they prove to be starters then their salary will reflect that!

And if they don’t get hurt I think at least one of them will make the rotation.

Some things Alderson has done are brighter than what Omar did. Young AND Capuano for the same base is far better than Redding on his own. Forget about dragging Livan into the matter. You had nothing to say on the Redding signing because you liked the guy signing him. You complain about the Young and Capuano one because you don’t like Alderson and it’s gonna be that way all season long. Your gonna look for and hope you have something to hit Alderson on every day like you’ve been doing since Novenber.

If it isn’t Alderson it’s Wright. It’s a shame we ever drafted him we could have had Ty Wiggenton playing there all these years.

Your desired approach this off season is intentionally vague and your motives very transparent.

We were talking about something else. Omar also made a lot of good moves too and would have been here still if his team wasn’t decimated in 2009 and having starters not healthy in 2010. Let’s not get into the collapses of 07 & 08 which, i guess by your stantdards…Omar was on the field choking too.
But that’s been discussed ad infinitum here already.

Don’t go into areas that are beyond your comprehension, you don’t want to play with the big boys.

Then call out others saying they know nothing about baseball………

You can’t make this crap up.

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

(4) Performance, Award and Other Bonuses

(a) Any amounts that are actually earned by a Player as Performance
Bonuses, Award Bonuses or any other bonuses properly
included in a Uniform Player’s Contract shall be included as part of
the Player’s Salary in the Contract Year in which the service or performance
giving rise to the Bonus was provided. Potential bonuses
shall not be included in the Average Annual Value calculation made
pursuant to Section E(2) above.

(b) A Special Covenant in a Uniform Player’s Contract that provides
that Player performance or achievement in one year of the
Contract will increase the Base Salary in other year(s) of the Contract
shall not be considered in the determination of Salary until the
triggering event occurs (other than, if applicable, as a “potential
bonus”), unless it is determined by the Arbitration Panel that the
Special Covenant was designed to defeat or circumvent the intention
of the Parties as reflected in this Article XXIII. As long as such
a finding is not made, the additional Base Salary triggered by the
Special Covenant shall count as part of the Player’s Salary in the
Contract Year(s) to which it is attributed by the Contract once the
triggering event has occurred. Multi-Year Contracts shall not be
recalculated on an Average Annual Value basis once the triggering
event has occurred; the additional Base Salary shall be added to the
Salary as originally calculated for the Contract Year in question.

That’s how they signed Dickey and that’s the way they should have signed another healthy starter to help support a good lineup that’s ready to contend NOW.

But instead Alderson decided to gamble on 2 reclamations projects. 1 would have been enough.

Point is, just because Young and Cap (hopefully) could/would be paid $9 mil, doesn’t mean it’s this pay year. They have to finish the season with those numbers, so it stands to reason their incentives get paid out after the season. And I don’t even know if that’s all in lump sum, or not. Maybe it’s paid out in annuities. Maybe, if Young earns all his $3.4 mil in incentives, that gets paid out as an extra $200,000 over 17 bi-monthly checks? Or maybe there’s not set way to do it, it’s worked out in the contract.

Be that as it may, my best guess is that this year Young’s only making $1.1 mil, regardless. If more money is owed to him, it comes after the season when other money money is off the books.

The 50/60 million that’s supposed to come off books next season, when does that exactly happen? After the last day of the season? Are Castillo, Perez, etc. done being paid by then?

Now for Cap & Young’s incentives, wouldn’t that kick in after the season? Now i don’t know the exact day or exact point when the monies start to be freed up from some of those contracts but it seems to me it should be around that time.

So instead of 9 million in incentives I would’ve preferred just the 4 million in incentives and get another healthy starter.

Expectations and reality sometimes have a way of clashing.

It’s like Sandy is playing his hand close to the vest. That’s not good. Be aggressive, even if it’s not much money.

And if that’s the case I would have preferred going the extra mile to try and lure a healthy pitcher with more money now. Young and a healthy starter, not another gamble. Now we’re relying on 2 gambles with a lineup that’s ready to fight for the WC now.

I may be wrong but I think the old phrase is that you want to have at least 8 starting pitchers. Pelfrey, Niese, Dickey, Capuano and Young are the first 5. Gee is likely 6. Misch I believe will either be the long man or be gone to another organization so if he stays as long man could be 7. Bonser I guess is 8 with Mejia as a possibility depending on how his (and the Mets) season unfolds.