Conf. Call Thoughts: Bobby Parnell Could Start Season In Minors

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• LongTimeFan March 25, 2011 at 7:34 am

  It makes a lot of sense and I believe it was during Monday’s game that Alderson, speaking with the fellows in the booth on SNY TV, strongly suggested that players with options have to be considered in that light – meaning the need for a team to grind through 162 games requires depth, something Mets will lose if they don’t retain as many players with opt outs as they reasonably can without weakening the major league team. So the possibility of Parnell and Murphy sent to the minors, really crossed my mind thereafter, but especially Parnell.

  These are big issues – Mets are clearly better with both Murphy and Parnell on the 25, but if they have little or no depth becuase too many players have options to leave….and do…that really hurts the team as well.

  Very difficult decisions for Alderson,. Collins in the coming days. I would consider optioning Murphy to the minors to work on second base and then call him up when ready.

  If Izzy isn’t healthy by March 30, 31st, Mets ought to ask him to take one for the team, go on DL – buy more time. He says he’s open for such a move.

  I think it’s a chance but the most logical is to put Acosta and Misch on waivers, but if Izzy starts on the DL, they only need waive one pitcher.

  One must remember that Izzy’s value is in who he is, all the experience and wisdom as great asset to this teammates. He’s far more than fragile arm – he’s not only great story, but a proven respected vet – priceless.
  • METS62FAN March 25, 2011 at 11:24 am

    LTF, I don’t believe Murphy has options just like his stable mate Evans; however Izzy on the D/L is intriguing, if they did that to keep both him & Hernandez, I believe another MLB investigation may be called for just like with Ollie last season. I would think that if Parnell was sent down, & Izzy d/l’d their hole @ setup would be apparently big enough to drive an ambulance through! I’d expose Misch as he’s yet to prove more valuable than long reeif/spot SP capable possibly would even survive waivers . I’d trade Misch for Izzy any day. so my 3 would be Boyer,Accosta,Izzy with Parnell @ AAA supported by the strongest middle infield in AAA, Tejada & Hu. “Brothers from different mothers”
    • Joe D March 25, 2011 at 11:48 am

      METS62, Just wanted to clarify that Murphy does have minor league options remaining, two of them to be exact.
      • METS62FAN March 25, 2011 at 12:14 pm

        Thanks, Joe, many thanks.

        I still believe despite Murphy benifitting more from a demotion; NYM have need of his LH bat in Utility/Bench/PHer role NOW! More due to not having a viable 3B option(Tatis?) to rest David, we’ve played him like a machine every year. Murph looks able to supply that rest, finally.

        I certainly believe this team is worth watching this year despite low expectations just as in ’73,’00. As anticipated improved production from 1B,2B,SS,LF,#4,#5SP will certainly bolster the lack of Beltran & Santana contributions. While, we’re no longer “the team to beat” in this division, if we ever was; we’re certainly the makings of being a team to reckon with & not trifled with.
        • Metsie March 25, 2011 at 12:35 pm

          The issue really is will his bat go stale on the Bench?
          It’s possible but more importantly until we entertain switching over the the AL we really need to exhaust all positional possibilities with Murphy and we can’t really do that in the Bigs.

          I think that training him to be a catcher which does not require range and pivot and only marginal footwork (throws to second) is Murphy’s best destiny.

          If he can learn that he could just be the next Jerry Grote. Thole seems to be doing well so it may be another dead end position for Murphy but until we have seen a whole season of Thole it wouldn’t be so bad to have a good hitting plan B to fall back on.
          • METS62FAN March 25, 2011 at 12:42 pm

            Metsie, at what point do u stop turning the team inside out attempting tio fit this square peg when all the holes are circles,crescents, elipses? you’d be replicating the Perez experiment with a better player; but certainly whereever u put him he’ll just ne marginally acceptable. at one time or another u’ll run out of positions & need to cut bait. u’d think he was projected as the next Pete Rose! Cheesh!
            • METS62FAN March 25, 2011 at 12:43 pm

              In addition, Plan B? I thought Plan B was Murphy @ 1B you’d be somewhere around E with your backstop alternative Are u creating an EYE CHART?
              • Metsie March 25, 2011 at 12:57 pm

                Well Murphy hits, but not as good as Ike.
            • Metsie March 25, 2011 at 1:02 pm

              As soon as you can trade that guy to someone who can play him at the only two positions he seems capable of playing without costing you. 1B and 3B!

              I am not in favor of rejiggering the team just to accomodate Murphy.

              But while he is owned by us we owe it to ourselves to find someplace he can contribute if fo no other reason that to trade him for something we do NOT have like a 2B or RF slugger to replace Beltran in 2012!

              I certainly like the fact he hits but I was one of the very first to say Batting aside if he can’t play the field he is useless to us except during interleague play.

              If we are intent on keeping him then we need to at least get him into enough palces where it pays to keep him on the roster.

              As a utility IF he won’t get that many ABs.
              If he could catch as well then he might be able to get in 3 games a week spelling Davis, Wright and Thole. That should be enough ABs plus the PH PAs to keep his bat fresh and effective.

              But if all he is going to get is 1 Ab per game as a PH or a day or two here and there then it really is not wise to keep him here and not work on the thing he needs work on which is his positional usefulness.
              • Bayonne Mets Fan March 25, 2011 at 1:52 pm

                Metsie,

                Kevin Millwood signed a minor league contract w/the Yanks do you think he could’ve been a nice pick up for Mets? Pitching in Cit Field?
              • METS62FAN March 27, 2011 at 8:27 am

                METSIE, Re. ease of catching u presume
                How can u expect a novice C to catch pitches he’d never have a chance to hit or fouloff? Anticipation is as much a key ingrediant to effective catching as that over padded mitt, it takes years to develop the skills to anticipate as well as months with particular pitchers to understand exactly what u shoould anticipate
                Metsie, now sing along… AAANNNN-TIS-I-PAAAAY-SHON. it’s…
              • Metsie March 27, 2011 at 9:14 am

                Dude the position is essentially a 60 foot game of catch!
                Its a thrown ball. Sure it has a break on some pitches but your talking about a ball that maybe breaks 12 inches in the downward direction!

                If you can’t handle that then you sure as hell are never going to learn 2B which has a lot more anticipation than Catcher and actually requires you to cove more ground while doing so!

                The hard part of catching isn’t catching the ball it is blocking balls in the dirt and calling pitches.

                The Blocking can be learned rather quickly and the calling of pitches is largely a DECISION of the pitcher not the Catcher!

                It is the calling a game part that takes time but the actualy physical playing of the position is easy, anyone that can catch a ball can pretty much do that part!
            • Metsie March 26, 2011 at 10:17 am

              Not really Bayonne, I don’t think at his age he is any better than some kid who might grow into being better at this point.

              If we were closer to winning something it might be a different story but right now with all the othr question marks it really doesn’t pay to sign a guy like that.

              Makes sense for the Yankees though.
          • t agee March 25, 2011 at 1:02 pm

            I think it’s too late for Murphy to learn catcher. He should have been projected there a long time ago.

            Even with a young All Star playing 3B in the Majors you still need to have third basemen in the minors. Unfortunately Murphy was blocked by the only guy who didn’t get hurt.

            Tell you the truth I didn’t think Murphy looked too bad in LF other than those 5 or 6 highlight reel errors he made and that had more to do with him not having adequate time to learn the position but his arm and bat was never going to be average there and while we could have gotten away with it, if other positions weren’t so weak, the idea that anyone can make that move (while their trying to break into the Majors) is crazy. To top it off we then brought in a guy at the last minute to share time with him who might go to the HOF and he couldn’t really adequately cover LF either.

            I like having a LH hitting back up for Wright for a dozen games a year (or more if need be), I don’t mind Murphy pinch hitting or backing up Davis. I still think Murphy could play LF in an all hands on deck situation but as much as I like what he CAN do I think the time has come to see if he could bring a credible minor league prospect back for 2B or RF and I have a guy in mind. Ryan Flaherty 23, hit AA at the end of 2010, LH hitter can play 2B or 3B has not had success above A+ but has had plenty of doubles, a bunch of HR’s and could be next years solution (or platoon mate) at 2B if Reece doesn’t play well or stay on the field and he would be much more useful as a utility player than Murph.
            • Des March 25, 2011 at 11:00 pm

              tag, Flaherty is just 16 months younger than Murphy but really hasn’t played above Advanced A ball at Daytona (I’m excluding his cup of coffee at AA Tennessee). So it’s probably fair to say that Murphy has been tested against much stronger opposition. Projecting Flaherty to be more useful as a utility player than Murph calls for a lot of offensive and defensive projections that really reflect more optimism than accomplishments to date. But he is someone to keep in mind, especially if he’s defensively superior at the middle infield positions, which is a strong possibility.
              • t agee March 26, 2011 at 9:04 am

                Des, I’m not strongly argueing for Flaherty as opposed to someone else but a guy like Flaherty who can play both 2B and 3B, played SS most of his life so he could pitch in there, and could handle the OF in a pinch as well and hits doubles and HR’s up through A+ (which is a great seperator) would be worth considering but you would have to get him (along with someone else) now. Before he finds his stride in AA.

                Plenty of ML teams could use a good hitting back up corner infielder, we could too but with so many other needs the chance of bringing in a guy who can really play 2B as well as 3B, 1B and has played SS for many years hits a lot of doubles and a few HR’s would be a better conceived roster spot and who knows, could seize 2B and make it his if Havens/Tejada/Emaus/Turner don’t.

                Exchanging Murph who I think would make a very decent 3B for someone (SF?) could get us better and solve a very long term need.
              • Des March 26, 2011 at 9:17 am

                I’d like to have both of them but that’s just my wishful thinking. I love hard-nosed baseball players. They make good things happen.
            • Des March 25, 2011 at 11:15 pm

              “Tell you the truth I didn’t think Murphy looked too bad in LF other than those 5 or 6 highlight reel errors he made and that had more to do with him not having adequate time to learn the position but his arm and bat was never going to be average there and while we could have gotten away with it, if other positions weren’t so weak, the idea that anyone can make that move (while their trying to break into the Majors) is crazy. To top it off we then brought in a guy at the last minute to share time with him who might go to the HOF and he couldn’t really adequately cover LF either.”

              Omar and his field managers really screwed up in the handling of Murphy. Your words nail it. Murphy was a victim of unfounded high expectations, considering his lack of background in the minors (he had a total of 3 games and 11 PO’s as an outfielder in the minors). The Mets management showed that misfeasance is not restricted to politics. The only other guy handled as bad as Murphy was Jenrry Mejia. Jerry Manuel and Omar Minaya should have been dismissed for doing what they did to Jenrry. But that’s another story which has yet to play out in terms of what it’s done to Mejia’s career.
              • t agee March 26, 2011 at 9:53 am

                Your right on the money Des. That’s one reason I don’t think you turn the team over to a GM. You hire a president who then hires the GM but maintains control over stuff that hurts you down the road because someone feels their job is on the line.

                Look at 2004. Duquette gets the interim GM tag and feels the pressure to make his mark. Well we’re still feeling the pain of his making his mark.

                The waste of a year with Reyes at 2B, another blown draft, 21 M and s*** play from Matsui and most of all the trade of Kazmir for a guy who at very best was a not a good pitcher and hurt when we got him anyway.

                The Benson trade also included Jose Bautista at the Pirates request so when you boil down 2004 you realize that we absolutely make the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 if we had Kazmir. We could very likely have won the World Series in 2006 with him as well who knows. We also would have had a much better chance with Bautista & Pedroia on the right side than Church/Francouer and Castillo/Emaus and with Pedroia going 2nd round #65 we could have and should have addressed this chronic weakness and not just assumed Reyes would stay there and Matsui would be great.

                These owners aren’t going to safeguard the future, if the GM starts to feel the pressure these extremely shortsighted moves can and will be made, and the impact of them can be felt for a decade.

                Just imagine we hold onto Kazmir. He has three great seasons and two good seasons from 2005 – 2009. Even if we sign him and he winds up hurt at least we got those great seasons out of him, and no way we sign Ollie and at 27 Kazmir might regain what he has lost.

                Personally I believe Kazmir pushes us over St. L, helps us beat Detroit. We win the series.

                Pressure’s off Omar, he’s now got room to breathe. Just like Theo did when he got one in HIS 2nd year. Only difference is the Mets really were Omar’s team, Theo inherited almost everyone.

                I bet you anything Omar tell everyone, with the age of the staff (40, 40, 40 34, 24) and the age of the position players (35, 35, 37, 24, 24, ? 30, 35) we have to get a younger, a step back may be necessary he can set the team up for the next few years now because there’s no pressure.

                The prior two GM’s going for broke caused a lot of problems for Omar. Considering how little extra he needed in 2007 or 2008 anyone of those shortsighted moves by Phillips or Duquette being vetoed would have made all the difference.
              • Des March 27, 2011 at 9:27 am

                Wonderful post, tag. You’ve got it figured out.

                A footnote to your comment:
                “The Benson trade also included Jose Bautista ….”
                It also included Anna Benson, a gal who brought unintended consequences but could always be counted on to fill a couple of scandal columns in newspapers. lol
          • Des March 26, 2011 at 9:35 am

            I think the train has left the station for Murphy as a catcher. It would take the better part of two years and if the Mets are in contention, they won’t be playing him behind the plate. Even if the Mets are struggling, I thing Terry would be reluctant to have use Murphy as a catcher in a league game, other than in a cameo shot. So he’d have to do it in the minors. Then he’d have no value to the Mets.

            The likelihood is that Murphy would be worth more to the team as part of a trade. New talent without the square peg vs. round hole problem would bring a better fit for the team’s needs.
            • t agee March 26, 2011 at 9:58 am

              Exactly. It’s too late now. Murphy could still have a good career as a 3B or as a back up corner infielder/pinch hitter. We have way too many full time needs to afford the luxury of a back up at two positions we already have good young players at.

              I’d hate to see him go but it would probably be best for him and the team.
            • Metsie March 26, 2011 at 10:20 am

              It really is not a very hard position to teach!

              Yes he would need 6 months to a year in the minors.
              His biggest hurdle would be in calling the game.
              The physical fielding is easy your pretty much just get in front of the ball and don’t let it by you. Do lots of squats to build up leg strength and then learn the footwork to come up throwing. The skills are actually very similar to a 3B only you don’t need the range! It’s a very reactive position though!
              • t agee March 26, 2011 at 12:57 pm

                Metsie, Catcher cannot be learned in 6 months and even if you were able to dig out an instance where it was learned (to whatever degree) that quickly, how can you believe that Murphy would be able to learn it that quick.

                Catcher is not a position that any other position skills transfer over to. ML catchers generally catch 1800 – 2400 innings in the minors before coming up and they usually start with having already played there for years.
              • Metsie March 26, 2011 at 1:11 pm

                Not a lot of skills transfer. Thats because you don’t need a lot of skill to catch. Call a game YES Catch NO!

                in 6 Months he could be a decent late inning replacement for Thole where guys like K-Rod call their own pitches anyway. Like I said playing catcher is a reactionary position in much the way 3B is. Those traits WILL translate!

                The only question is can he call a game. Well as I pointed out with a guy like K-Rod and Dickey who call their own game pretty much that skill is not as important and he could get some of those innings that normally would be done in the Minors while still on the ML roster.

                Catcher is not as hard to play as you think. It’s basically catch with some skill at getting in front of the ball in the dirt.

                Not a very hard skill to learn actually!
                Would I let him call and catch a game with Niese out there? No! but if he is going to fill a utility role it stands to reason that more positions he can play to get his ABs in the better!
                Having a 3rd catcher is always a good thing especially when the guy is a utility at two other positions.
              • t agee March 26, 2011 at 1:29 pm

                Having a utility guy who can also be a 3rd catcher would be a great thing to have granted but the idea that it can be learned in 6 months is outerworldly.

                Having a guy with 6 months experience behind the plate catching K-Rod would be funnier than having Hundley in LF.

                Passed balls and wild pitches galore.

                Even Thole who was drafted as a catcher had 250 games in the minors before he was allowed to catch K-Rod and he was only up here to begin with because we had no one else.

                Manuel only gave him the soft throwers like Figgy and Misch and then pinch hit for him before the 9th.
• Mets Blogger Conference Call With Sandy Alderson | OnTheBlack.com - New York Mets Video Baseball Blog | Mets News March 25, 2011 at 8:38 am

  [...] Transcript Of Sandy Alderson’s Conference Call With Mets Bloggers -Mets Merized Online: Conf. Call Thoughts: Bobby Parnell Could Start Season In Minors -New York Mets Report: Alderson conference [...]
• Des March 25, 2011 at 8:49 am

  It’s really inspiring to enter the season with hope for a good year. Thanks for what is, on balance to me, an upbeat story, Joe. Maybe Izzy will be able to do some kind of an Andy Pettitte retire/un-retire story if and when the situation calls for it. (He just has to drop the final Pettitte retirement.) lol
• Donal March 25, 2011 at 8:58 am

  “With five spots already filled, there’s only room for three more.”

  didn’t Alderson say during the game yesterday that they were only brining 12 pitchers up? Because you have 8 relievers here added to the 5 starters.

  Otherwise, ya, I’m with you on who to bring up. If you keep the guys with no options and they flop, you still have a couple guys like Parnell available. If you keep Parnell at the expense of maybe Acosta and Parnell flops, you’ve got no one ready to back him up.
  • Joe D March 25, 2011 at 10:16 am

    I know whats been reported and what’s been denied regarding how many pitchers the team will head north with. I am still hearing 13 and not 12. We will know more today and tomorrow as I will have one of our writers on location at Mets camp in these final days of spring training with full access. Of course if does end up being 12, than it actually increases the chances for Parnell starting the season in the minors. Nothing is set in stone of course and anything can happen in the next seven days, but I will update the site as we learn more.
• t agee March 25, 2011 at 9:40 am

  Tough decisions. I have to agree with you Joe. Put the way you have it makes sense. I was hopeing that Misch would be around to back up Capuano and Young if need be but I also see where we are in no position to lose players, we need to gain players. We’ll see soon
• Metsie March 25, 2011 at 9:57 am

  Personally I would call up Balt and try to trade them Misch or Acosta to get back options on Beato. Then work on other trades to remove the logjam and bring up the guys like Parnell and Beato once there is room.

  This is where Sandy should be wheeling and dealing.
  • Joe D March 25, 2011 at 10:17 am

    That is a terrific idea and one avenue I would explore as well in due haste.
    • Metsie March 25, 2011 at 10:57 am

      It makes sense. Especially with all the guys we have that are out of options. A player (even an A ball project player) is better than letting guys like Evans and Misch go for nothing.

      And if it gets you some options on Beato at least we have the opportunity to send him down should he run into trouble during the season where we can develop him and work on what is needed so we can use him next year.

      But a hindsight comment I think needs some mention.
      With all the complaining that transpired over us not going after more players it has turned out to be a good thing we didn’t go after more.

      We can’t find enough space to play the guys we already have! That has to be a good thing that seems to be going unoticed by many of the complainers.
      • Joe D March 25, 2011 at 11:08 am

        As I told Sandy yesterday, despite no wiggle room with adding payroll, and operating on a shoestring to add more players, his additions of Byrdak, Young, Capuano, Buchholz, Harris and Hairston are looking like solid low cost signings.

        As for trading some of the excess that has value and that we could conceivably lose, it behooves us to try and get something for them because if nothing else, Misch, Acosta, Beato and Boyer are quality depth. Sooner or later we are going to have to tap into the minors because of injury and ineffectiveness, if we can trade a couple of these guys and add a minor leaguer who can fill that void as far as depth goes, it’s a no-brainer.
        • Metsie March 25, 2011 at 11:24 am

          I agree depth is important but the problem is you won’t have that depth from Misch, Acosta and Byrdak unless you find a way to keep them.

          It will only take trading one to get the options on Beato so you would still have two of those three after the trade.

          A possible trade for Evans and one of them could be attractive to them, they exposed beato and might give up a minor PTBNL for that package.

          We need to get something for players who if not for the 30 Million dollars worth of ooutfield we have would probably make the team.

          Letting them go for nothing is really not a smart thing if it can be helped. But I also agree that making trades are not exactly easy at this point of the season. Other teams are having the same issues we are in this regard.

          The right partner must be found and I think this is a perfect time to do one of those three team deals where everyone gets something they need.

          Find a partner to take Evans who will give up something that will appease the Orioles if what we have doesn’t work for them in regards to giving us Beato and his options.
          • t agee March 25, 2011 at 12:02 pm

            Giving the Orioles something we’re going to lose anyway for Beato and then making him AAA depth would be a wise move.
            • METS62FAN March 25, 2011 at 12:31 pm

              Though, if we’re likely to lose either I’d say we can offer infield or outfield help in Evans & Hernandez. Like most I’d miss whichever departed however with Duda, Nick is overshadowed just as I expect Herndez to be by Flores pretty soon making both, IMP, more superfluous/expendable than pitching depth I’d certainlt prefer that than Omar’s shortsightedness on Cherry. Thinking ahead certainly appears as a strength of this triumvirate over the past frontoffice experiences. Maybe that’s just because 3 competant heads are Always superior to 1 battered one!
              • t agee March 25, 2011 at 3:18 pm

                Hu or Hernandez should be preferable to anything SF or the Cubs have backing up MI.
              • Metsie March 26, 2011 at 1:14 pm

                Duda has a lot of Pop granted…
                But Evans is still a better player. Duda is another Murphy case if you ask me.

                Lots of bat liability with the glove.
                If we are keeping Murphy then Duda is expendable, Evans can play any OF position.
                You lose a little power in the name of average but I think it is worth the trade off considering how many questions there are regarding Bay and Beltran.
              • t agee March 26, 2011 at 1:47 pm

                Not sure if you were thinking Evans can play CF but if you were, that’s not correct. Evans and Duda should both be limited to LF if their allowed to roam beyond 1B. I would be perfectly comfortable with a Duda Evans platoon in LF but that option has been taken away from us.

                We might have to go with one of them in RF and that alone will allow everyone to go first to 3rd and 2nd to home as well as a few other assorted adventures.

                It’s going to take a couple of years to get a well rounded, well conceived roster together but we do need to put a ML team out there.
• Kenneth Arias March 25, 2011 at 11:16 am

  Bobby Parnell is the hardest thrower we have in the bullpen and can bring it to the plate at 100mph. Why would we worsen the bullpen by demoting him so we can protect some rule 5 guy who couldnt even make the Orioles bullpen? We should be treating our own homegrown players better than that. Bad idea. I hope you are wrong about this.
  • Hitman March 25, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    “Why would we worsen the bullpen by demoting him so we can protect some rule 5 guy who couldnt even make the Orioles bullpen?”

    Because he’s still very hittable? Give him more time in AAA. Our pen won’t worsen because Parnell goes down. Beato can bring the heat as well. Just because the O’s didn’t bring him up means nothing. Mike O’Connor was great last year in AAA & the Mets never brought him up either.
    • Des March 25, 2011 at 10:08 pm

      Agreed, Hitman. Parnell will be back, hopefully with his heat and with more movement on his pitches. Color me optimistic, but the current front office team has done a good job in my opinion.
    • METS62FAN March 26, 2011 at 12:36 pm

      Hitter, it’s simply a matter of maximizing yuor options, demoting Parnell temporarily keeps both pitchers as viable team options, retaining Panell keeps him as the sole option. Note, he only need be demoted until the first injury or a deal can be struck creating an openning, he’s not sequested in Buffalo until Sept. merely enough time for things to shake/sort out. The ultimate solution is getting Orioles to want one of our other “out of options bubble” players like Hernandez or Evans in a deal outright for their unprotected Beato’s rights in order for Beato to refine in minors for us; not them.
      While keeping Luis & Nick also would be optimum, with the liklihood of loss for no retn on waivers dealing either is a palatable solution to the ever important bullpen talent crunch, musical chair dillema