Spring Update: Beato’s FB Is Explosive, Alvarez Is A Darkhorse, Been Nice Knowing You Luis

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• Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 2:38 pm

  The Mets offensive production at 2b last year was abysmal.

  They can’t have another year like that again.
• Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 2:43 pm

  IDK who will be the 2b but if Murphy hits the way many think he can I can see Collins giving him the position at 2b.

  Can he turn the dp at 2b? Remains to be seen.
  • alwaysnextyear February 23, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    I am just glad that there will be real live game action to evaluate Murhpy (and the other options) soon. Really tired of people stating things for a certainty (that he can’t do it), just because of his body type or how he played LF!

    and I would like to send flowers to Terry for giving me more hope that Castillo has no shot at being on the roster. Just can’t stand to see him play, and I think he really bogs down the lineup. And I just can’t stand to watch him play!

    Oh, and speed does not = best FB. Movement, explosiveness, all come into play. Plenty of guys could throw 98 (well, maybe not plenty, but enough!) dead straight with poor control. They tended to give up lots of HRs.
    • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 2:59 pm

      True, I’m sure if Murphy shows he really is not suitable enough to play 2b and someone else is well then Murphy won’t be it.

      If Murphy does turn out not to get the job it wont be due to lack of effort thats for sure.
  • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    His bat will get him the job but only if he makes all the routine plays in the field.
    They might sacrifice range to get the bat but they will not sacrifice the DP and the routine grounders that start them just because of that bat.

    I think it is safe to say that the batting will be a factor but in the end it won’t be the be all end all factor.

    First I don’t see Murphy hitting much more than a .280 – .300 in the Majors (that minor league .400 sure isn’t going to hold!) Which would be plenty but if Castillo or Emaus both hit anywhere near .250 – .260 it would probably make more sense to lose some bat to get the better fielding for the Pitchers sake. (If Murphy is just awful with the glove that is…)

    The big issue for Murphy is if he can’t field the 2B position there really is no place for him to go with us.

    We already seen his OF prowess and Davis is pretty much locked in at 1st. If he can’t play 2nd then he would be a disaster at SS and I don’t see him pushing Wright out anytime soon.
    About the only place they haven’t tried yet to get him on the field is to train him as a catcher!

    That was pretty much what the Dodgers told Piazza when they first got a hold of him.
    Piazza became a catcher and with his bat one of the best in the game.

    I am sure Murphy will hit as thats what he has always done.
    The question is how to get that bat onto the field in a place where that glove can’t hurt you.

    And 2B is one of those places where a bad glove can really kill you.
    • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 3:35 pm

      “And 2B is one of those places where a bad glove can really kill you.”

      True
    • Des February 23, 2011 at 7:50 pm

      Metsie, I am not one of the folks who hate Luis Catillo. But Luis as a late inning defensive replacement is just a non-starter. It almost certainly will not happen.

      Overall, Luis has had a great career. But that’s yesterday’s news.
      • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 10:14 pm

        Of luis hits better than Emaus in ST then there is no way for Emaus to make this team UNLESS Murphy hits worse than both of them in which case we wouldn’t need a defensive replacement what we would need then is a place to coach Murphy to become a catcher because when you have no glove and all Bat pretty much the only place you can play the field safely is at catcher where the guy is actually throwing it at you…Although those Dickey games would be quite interesting eh? lol

        Really all I was saying is that the top two batters will probably stick and the only thing that COULD trump that is if Murphy really can’t field 2B.

        They will only keep two 2B’s so if Murphy makes it they may go Emaus if he hits. But if castillo does I’m better Emaus goes down to the minors.
        They would be quite happy if Castillo lit up the world and started hitting if you asked them I bet!

        You see how little it takes for some to complain about this team.
        Castillo isn’t as bad as Perez who he is constantly lumped in with.

        Yes his range was bad because his legs are going. If his legs hold up he isn’t as bas as some would suggest.

        Be nice to have another option and most of those options present themselves at the trading deadline. Who knows we may trade Beltran for a 2B mid season.

        But just to be clear, I like Murphy and hope he does well. I just don’t see his Bat being all that matters to his getting the 2B gig. If he can’t field not even hitting .400 will get him that job.
        • Bayonne Mets Fan February 23, 2011 at 10:24 pm

          Castillo did run amazingly well last season, how many times we seen him make a play close. But he’s either gonna start or get cut..he won’t be a back up. I’d be surprised if he was.
          • any February 23, 2011 at 10:33 pm

            of all the guys mentioned being in the running (including Murphy), Castillo is the only guy that really only plays 2B.

            no chance he is on the bench.
• t agee February 23, 2011 at 2:55 pm

  There is a lot more to playing 2B than just turning it. The list of players throughout the entire history of baseball being able to move from corner IF to middle IF is pretty small. Obviously getting anything out of 2B is worth taking some risks but to consider it likely that it would work would be taking a leap of faith. I’m rooting for him but even if he can play 50% it might require a platoon partner AND a back up MIer. That’s a lot of spots to cover just one position, black hole or not.
  • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    I wouldnt rule out a platoon as well.
    • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 3:34 pm

      Not so much a platoon but a defensive replacement tandem.
      I don’t see them keeping three 2B.

      Murphy would start and somewhere in the 6th or 7th (when a pitcher is likely needing replacement) I can see them double switching and putting the winner of the Emaus Castillo sweepstakes coming in late in games.

      And to add to what I said Above, I think the Bat will most definitly determine which one (Emaus or castillo) is that late inning replacement for Murphy.

      But as far as Murphy winning the 2B job, that in itself will depend more on his glove than his bat. I don’t think there is any question the guy can hit. If it weren’t for the glove and the injuries his bat would have got him on the field long before now!
      • ReyesAdvocate February 24, 2011 at 11:25 am

        I would not be against a platoon of Murphy and Emaus. If Murphy learns how to throw in mid-air during a double play, he has the job. Because of his bad knee, baserunners are going to make sure they take him out if his foot is planted in the ground. I know I would if I were playing against him. It’s baseball. But if he is in air when the runner is sliding, there is nothing to worry about except for the runner smacking his head on Murphy’s knee.
        • Metsie February 24, 2011 at 11:46 am

          Yeah the Pivot could be problematic with his injury history.

          Murphy has a steep learning curve, what is going to help is he has played the position before. How well is anyone’s guess.

          My only worry is that if his fielding is not up to snuff it might cause guys like Pelfrey and Niese to implode around the 6th inning where the tiredness starts and the ground ball and DP are very important to getting them to pitch into the 7th.

          It would make no snse to put in a defensive replacement in the 6th as Murphy will likely only have had two at bats by then.

          Basically if Murphy can do the routine it will be good enough to use until the 7th where the pitcher is likely to come out and a double switch can be made to put in the defensive replacement and the worn out pitcher.
  • Harry C February 23, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Now you couldn’t be talking about Murphy now could you since Murphy was a 3B who was moved to the outfield to first base to second base. Of course the all knowing t agee couldn’t have possibly forgotten Murphy’s roots. No, he just wanted to tell a tale that knocks someone that came thru the org because of OMAR.
    • t agee February 23, 2011 at 5:48 pm

      Harry, I’m not knocking Murphy because Omar drafted him. I’m simply stating that the odds of Murphy being able to play middle infield are really small.

      Most of Major league players were at one time SS’s, CFers and pitchers, as they weed themselves out most of the outfielders move to the corners, most of the infielders do too. It is extremely rare for a corner to move to the middle.

      I’ll bet you couldn’t give me more than a couple that have.
      • alwaysnextyear February 23, 2011 at 6:41 pm

        murphy played 2B in HS.
        • t agee February 23, 2011 at 7:01 pm

          I’m not saying it’s impossible for him, I’m just saying it’s unlikely. Most 2B would have been playing SS in high school and college or rookie league. Murphy played 3rd, then because he looked OK in Sept in LF was moved there, then 1B. The only reason he is being looked at as a potential 2B is because we have a need there, not because of how he projects. I thought he did very well at 1B even though he was really rough on the finer points of 1B (how could he not) but 2B is 100% more difficult and even though we are all hopeful someone can do something there it’s not realistic to think it likely.
• Carlos Alvarez February 23, 2011 at 3:03 pm

  Who the heck is Manny Alvarez? I know he is definitely not related to me.
  • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    You sure? Now is a good time to update the Family Tree.
    • Carlos Alvarez February 23, 2011 at 3:07 pm

      hahaha I know, I might have to ask my dad to look into this. He may be a distant 5th cousin or something.
      • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 3:37 pm

        You know if recorded history actually went back far enough you would find that you most definitly were related to whoever was the very first person to be called Alvarez.

        Unless you or someone actually changed their name at some point.
• Jerry M February 23, 2011 at 3:36 pm

  Many are rooting for Murphy at 2nd base. I think Collins just wants to see his defense at 2nd base and otherwise he is in Murphys corner for the job. Murphy will hit better than many think this year and his defense will be better than Dan Uggla at 2nd base. I say he will giev us 20+ HRs this year and 80-90 RBIs. with an average .290-300
  • Des February 23, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Those are some good numbers. I hope Murphy can do it. He just may.

    I have a question. Why did Collins and Sandy send Tejada packing before the season? What was their motivation?

    Another question. Why did Collins and Sandy pick Murphy before the season? Did he see fewer faults than some of our MMO self-proclaimed experts? Is Collins opaque, and not a good judge of talent?
    • any February 23, 2011 at 8:14 pm

      they didn’t send tejada “packing”. they simply said they wanted to have him start the season in the minors, playing SS, and working on improving his hitting. If it turns out they need him and he looks like the best option, he can still win the job.

      people seem to be taking the pre-ST comments way too literally, and set in stone. At this point, everything is subject to change.

      not sure if they really picked murphy, as opposed to saying they thought he was a real option. But yes, I trust their judgement more than most people commenting on a blog!
      • t agee February 23, 2011 at 8:25 pm

        It’ll be nice having some capable young players to bring up here if needed mid season.
        • ReyesAdvocate February 24, 2011 at 11:30 am

          We will see Reese Havens in Citi Field around the same time we saw Davis last year. Don’t be surprised if Havens even has a better year than Ike had last year.
          • Mr North Jersey February 24, 2011 at 11:34 am

            Now that would be awesome indeed.
      • Des February 23, 2011 at 8:38 pm

        Given the need to be competitive in 2011, sending Tejada to Buffalo (or Binghamton) is tantamount to saying he can’t help the Mets enough to be on the opening day roster. Tejada is a nice talent, but most “nice talents” don’t have nice major league careers. If Ruben hits more, it will be time to re-evaluate him. Right now he doesn’t hit enough.

        Injuries play a big part in shaping any MLB roster. (Last year I ran a quick check of all the MLB teams. Every team had at least one player on the Disabled list. As memory serves me, there were 135 players in total on the list at the time of the review.) The Mets are no different from any other team. If their injuries go up, they are toast. If Reese Havens gets past his rib/obliques, he’ll likely displace everybody, including Murphy, playing 2B. I see it happening in mid-2011, ahead of most of the posters on MMO.

        I’ve followed Havens closely since he was signed, and I remain convinced he’s the real deal. Only injuries can stop this kid. But who can predict misfortune?
    • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 10:22 pm

      Very simple answer…

      The Uncertainty with Jose reyes being a met past this season and maybe even past this trading deadline…

      IF Reyes is the best trade chip that nets the most picks then who plays SS after he is gone? Do you rush the two guys who we think are it in two years? Or do you make sure the guy who has some ML experience has regular playing time to stay sharp so he can step in once reyes leaves and UNTIL those prospects are ripe?

      They want to try Murphy at 2B and if he fails SOMEONE else…Maybe that someone else is Tejada if he tears up ST.

      People should stop hanging on every word of a flippant 30 second soundbite for SNY and see what they decide when they are FORCED to decide it.

      Then you will know where Ollie winds up, Who is going to get the start at 2B and if they can actually play the position and if they do the wrong thing THEN would be the time to complain that they made a mistake.

      You can’t make a mistake until you have actually made a decision unless the decision is to never make one!
• Peter February 23, 2011 at 3:47 pm

  Sorry to burst your bubble but Ive already seen some video of Murphy taking grounders at 2B and he looked awful. He was stiff, lacked range and was just didnt have the natural instincts someone needs to play up the middle. Murphy to second base sounds nice, but I dont see it happening.
  • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Understood and if that’s the case throughout camp then most likely Murphy indeed will not be the starting 2b.

    Now if we can just let his play prove how bad he is before passing final judgement I am ok with him not being the starter if he sucks at 2b.
  • Jerry M February 23, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    I saw the same videos and he was coached by Tufeul to more more awkwardly as Tim did to avoid being hit. Tim said it was unconventional but serviceable. Dont be sure he would make it at 2nd base as thats the way he is being told to play. Lets see game action and not your opinion.
  • Des February 23, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Peter — did you tell Collins? What did he say?
• Bayonne Mets Fan February 23, 2011 at 4:24 pm

  sacrificing defense for the amount of offense Murphy will give you is a major disaster in the making. A good defensive 2B will help improve Reyes’ game also.

  A DP tandem of Reyes/Murphy? Not happening. Not at the big league level. Murphy’s terrible play will affect Reyes as well. Reyes is gonna go out for a cutoff and Murphy is gonna be running there to trail and back him up? No way.

  The middle infield will be a shambles if that happens. Look for sloppy innings… Alderson’s philosophy is going to destroy this team for years to come. He better wise up cuz he’s not smarter than the game of baseball itself.
  • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    OK so which is it?

    “A DP tandem of Reyes/Murphy? Not happening.”
    “The middle infield will be a shambles if that happens.”

    I don’t know if Murphy can or will win the position but I agree with what Pete said which if he is as bad as the way Pete describes then the odds of him winning the job are slim to none.

    I just need to see him 1st before passing judgement.
  • Henry Rowengartner February 23, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    I think you have serious issues. It is ST and lots of things are being tested out. How does that equate to “Alderson’s philosophy is going to destroy this team for years to come. He better wise up cuz he’s not smarter than the game of baseball itself.”

    Why aren’t you on the payroll?
    • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 5:36 pm

      (Off Topic)

      So Rookie of the Year must of made quite an impression on you.
  • Des February 23, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Can’t take the Mets management not going along with your views, can you? How about letting the management manage, and we can judge after the fact, not before it?

    You picked Mike Jacobs at 1B — you were wrong, and he was sent packing.
    You picked Ruben Tejada at 2B — you were wrong, and he didn’t even make the team

    I don’t know what will happen. You need to admit the same. Your time coaching 13-15 year olds is not evidence you can make the assessments you try to pawn off on us as an indication of your expertise.
• Jerry M February 23, 2011 at 4:47 pm

  Look Bayonne doesnt want Murphy and I guess Peter is too great for him playing so you post that he plays poorly. Howcome Scouts saw him play in winter ball and said he was serviceable. Collins said hes getting better every day. So I guess you are all experts as to how he is doing. We will see who is right by the end of spring training. You computer experts can post but think you all know what scouts and the manager is saying is wrong.
  • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Servicable is a very far cry from startable.

    Castillo was complained about even when he hit .290 merely because of his Defense and lack of Range. I certainly can’t see a guy with LESS range and even less fielding that that being OK with anyone for a mere .010 or .020 points in the BA.

    Maybe if the OBP goes sky high it might help but if the guy can’t play the position at least as good as Castillo did two years ago when he actually DID hit, then he will not be the starting 2B for very long.

    If there is as much as two lousy games where a fumble by Murphy cause Pelfrey or Dickey to have an inning blow up on them his bat will be the last thing anyone talks about when they discuss Murphy.

    Can he do it? Maybe!

    Can he do it for a season? Well lets work on a per game basis for now.

    If he doesn’t hit then all of this fielding talk is moot anyway!
    • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 5:32 pm

      “If he doesn’t hit then all of this fielding talk is moot anyway!”

      Exactly
      • alwaysnextyear February 23, 2011 at 6:46 pm

        that is for sure. I don’t think even the biggest Murphy fans think for a second he will be out there because of his glove!
      • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 6:48 pm

        You know what the real problem here is people forget that there is not a team in Baseball that comes to ST with a perfect team and players for every position, and the ones who people think have that usually lose some of it DURING ST as guys get hurt and don’t perform as expected.

        I hope Murphy does well and can field, I also hope he hits but he has shown that to be his most consistent talent for awhile so I don’t doubt his hitting will be good. Can he play 2B, well sure anyone can PLAY 2B but can he play it and not cause more problems for the pitchers that would negate anything he can do with the bat.

        We should just let them play and see what happens and worry about who is on the roster and where when they break camp.

        Isn’t it unreal how so many Living rooms GMs, who will tell you who to get who to trade to get and how much players are worth all through the season because they believe they are better GMs than what we have don’t just continue the fantasy and do what any GM does during ST?

        Watch and see what you have and decide what you need and what you keep based on how they play!
        • any February 23, 2011 at 8:18 pm

          well, some people wrote off the entire off season (and opening day roster) back in mid-december when they hadn’t added any players yet!
          • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 10:03 pm

            Yeah I know and most of them thought that by signing Uggla Lee or ANYONE something about that might have changed. But we all know it comes down to Beltran hitting, Reyes staying healthy and Pelfrey pitching like he never pitched before for there to be a real chance.

            We have a chance for all of that even without the moves they wanted.
            And basically any move would not have changed the fact I stated above and we could fail anyway.

            This year is not going to be about who we could have gotten or got rid of.
            It will be about the guys we ALREADY had actually playing the way they were supposed to when we brought THEM in to play here!

            One bat/fielder/player is not going to change much.
            It’s still going to be getting what we thought we had but was hurt, doing what we expect of them when they are NOT hurt!

            They do that we win a ton of games!
            Even with Tejada in there at 2B!
    • alwaysnextyear February 23, 2011 at 6:45 pm

      castillo didn’t “hit”. he tried to walk, and when forced to, slapped some balls on the infield.

      that had more to do with many people not wanting him playing than just his lack of range.

      although he did pretty much stink at 2B too, not going after balls. Hell, I can remember a few times where guys hit GBs right at him, and still beat it out, since he wouldn’t (or couldn’t) charge them.
• FP Mets February 23, 2011 at 6:45 pm

  HoJo.. I’d just like to reiterate my sincerest thanks for being a breath of fresh air on this site and contributing insightful FACTS and steering away from biased opinions and other dribble that pollutes this site from time to time. You’re the man.
  Sincerely,
  Floral Park Mets Fan (Mike)
• Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 7:06 pm

  odds on a trade to address 2b before the season starts?
  • Des February 23, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Sorry, MNJ. There will be no trade before the season. Odds are 1 in 20.
    • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 7:49 pm

      
• t agee February 23, 2011 at 7:14 pm

  The time for a trade should have been two years ago. We were out of it early. Luis had a bad first year, looked OK in 2009 but certainly someone in A+ ball could have been found in some teams system that had a future and that we could have traded for so that we wouldn’t be caught short yet again.

  Having to trade or having to sign a guy always leads to getting ripped off. Emaus/Murphy/Turner/Hernandez/Castillo/Hu will just have to fight it out and we’ll have to live with whoever’s left standing.
  • any February 23, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    you point a key thing to remember. there is no requirement that whoever wins the job out of ST has to stay there all season. Quite possibly there are 2-3-4 guys different guys anointed the starter (or part of a platoon) during the year.

    beat them all up in ST, pick the guy you think gives the team the best chance to win, and see what happens. If they don’t preform, try someone else.
    • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 10:28 pm

      No you don’t but you also don’t want to carry 3 2Bs on your roster. They won’t get enough work or ABs to stay sharp and focused.

      And you can’t send guys like Castillo to the Minors. At some point you run out of options on them.

      If murphy can’t field 2B then at best he can hope to get some ABs as a late inning PH and spelling Davis at first when he needs rest. In that case both Castillo and Emaus will stay and maybe platoon at second.
      • any February 23, 2011 at 10:40 pm

        nominally they could have 3,if it is say emaus/murphy platoon starting, and Hu as the BU MI.

        say they start with Murphy starting, and emaus on the bench. If DM can’t hack it, could move to emaus. If neither guy is showing the goods, then reach down to the minors for Havens, tejada or Turner. And if all those don’t work, you start trolling the waiver wire for the Hernandezs of the world. Or play Harris.

        bottom line, even with cutting Castillo, they will have plenty of options.
        • Metsie February 24, 2011 at 11:53 am

          Yes but if those option are only AS GOOD as Castillo they would most probably send some of them to the minors and get something for the 8 Mil.

          Then if castillo starts stinking it up they can cut him and still have all those option.

          I don’t think we will carry that many 2B simply because I think we will carry extra pitchers in the pen until the roles there get sorted out.
          4 2Bs is a luxury they simply don’t need. But being able to keep a few extra arms that can come in and support our depleted and coming off injured rotation so we don’t have to overwork them and increase the risk of reinjury.
• Mr North Jersey February 23, 2011 at 7:36 pm

  “Having to trade or having to sign a guy always leads to getting ripped off.”

  I may agree with more times than not but “always” is not one I would agree with.

  That is just me though. I don’t subscribe to the “always” concept very often.
  • Metsie February 23, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    I certainly don’t feel ripped off by Beltran! He got hurt, players ALWAYS get hurt at some point in their career. Thats the danger of signing someone to anything more than 3 years.

    I don’t feel ripped off for the money we gave Wright and Reyes either.
    K-Rod before hurting himself was giving me what I thought we were paying paid for.

    Paying doesn’t always translate to rip off to me. In fact you usually get more ripped off by homegrowns because there is more pressure to keep the hometown faves. Just look at what Jeter got! No one else in the baseball universe would have given him that much but they kind of had to because he was the face of the franchise and they would have gone through holy hell for not signing him despite you can probably find 10 guys who had his numbers last year.

    The market sets what they get paid. It’s a bery DUMB market granted…
    But if I agree to sign a guy all I can ask him to do is to try and give me the numbers you gave when I decided I was willing to pay you.
    Beltran, Wright and Reyes have all done that for the most part.