12
2011
Morning Grind: Fans Need To Know More, Sandy Flubs On Fossum
An article by 
Hey everyone! Here is this week’s Morning Grind:
Mets Sign Casey Fossum
Normally when I see that Alderson signed an under-the-radar type player, I look at almost every stat I can find. Alderson is about finding a cheap, one-tool player than a type-A free agent, four or five tool players for many more years and tens of millions more. But Fossum is not even a one-tool player, I do not understand this signing what-so-ever.
He has little experience versus the NL East, and in the few outings he has had against the division, he has been ineffective at best. In 13 career games, Fossum is a dismal 1-5 with a 8.86 ERA when facing the NL East. Whether it is 1st or 2nd half, or home or away, two things remain the same: an ERA north of 5.00 and that Fossum struggles, mightily. He only has slightly better numbers versus left-handed batters, but not significant enough to make a case for Fossum.
Anyway you slice it, normal statistics, sabermetric statistics or split stats, Fossum is just not a smart move by Sandy Alderson.
The Wilpons and their current situation
We all know what has happened with the Wilpons and the recent financial problems. But the fact of the matter is, what we the public do know is very little. We are left to speculate and wonder as to what is going on financially with our favorite team. This should not be how a sports franchise works, there needs to be more transparency.
I know that legally, business owners have the right to their privacy when it comes to financial and legal matters, but a sports franchise is a different type of business. The fans spend countless hours viewing Met games on SNY and too many paychecks on season tickets, merchandise and six dollar hot dogs at Citi Field that support the Wilpons’ livelihood. We as fans have such a great investment monetarily and emotionally in the Mets that when something comes up that can affect their long-term success, we should have a right to know.
The Wilpons, understandably will not talk about what is occurring behind the scenes of the press conference room. We have only been told that they are seeking a minority investor to ensure financial security for the Mets franchise and that this news is almost certainly connected to the fallout of the Bernie Madoff scandal. We need to know more than that.
For example, realistically, will the Wilpons have to sell the team?
Two years ago the Wilpons said they had no interest nor inkling of a need to have a minority investor in the Mets. Now that we have reached that point, is selling the team the next step?
These are some questions that just can’t be left unanswered.
It can be understood that the Wilpons would not want to reveal the details of their debatable financial uncertainty, but based on the fact that we keep them living large, we have more than a right to know what is going on with our investment.
About the Author: Clayton Collier
Clayton, a Long Island native and die-hard Mets fan, started writing online about three years ago. He is currently a Journalism major with a minor in Broadcasting at Seton Hall University. Although very disappointed with the current state of the team, Clayton remains hopeful that the young prospects in the farm system will bring the Mets back to a respected franchise in baseball once again. Besides writing for MMO, Clayton is also a staff member at 89.5 WSOU, Seton Hall's modern active rock radio station. You can contact Clayton by following him on Twitter: @Clayton_Collier or E-mailing him at MaybeNextYearMets@yahoo.com
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Another day, another blog about eveything I hate about this team……….
Why not change the title to this site to IspendmytimebashingeverythingabouttheMets.com
Sorry, but you are all becoming a bore.
I am WELL aware of what is going on with the team, and much of it Madoff related is very bad and bad PR. I have very mixed feelings about it all.
We have all been sceaming for a new GM and Manager and we got it. Not one pitch has been thrown yet, but we are all experts behind our keyboards about what every move has been made. We pretend we know more then the guys hired, shockingly enough we don’t. We forget that every signing of every GM on every MLB team is not always perfect, yet here we are disecting every move Alderson makes to prove how its an awful one.
For the love of God, it’s going to be a long season and plenty oppotunity to bash every swing and pitch, can we at least take a breath and wait a few weeks into ST to see what may happen.
I’m not raising at WS title banners yet, but can we take an objective look at this line up and with a bit of luck and health know they have potential to be petty darn good. For that horredous pitching staff, we do have a 15 game winner and a guy named RA Dickey that certainly turned heads, oh yeah and a young kid that though a one hitter last year.
I guess I’m the idiot that keeps coming back evey day to see read the same rehased version of “this sucks”.
Maria, I must admit to u that I believe this is most likely the absolute nadir of topical postings I’ve encountered on this typically thought provoking, site for knowledgeable Met fans. My immediate thoughts re. rebuttal were these:
#1) completed staff wotk on any bellyache would compel u to at least include the terms of the signing re. major or minor, $$$ & term sans that I can only conclude it was 1Y low $$$ & MiLB level based upon the player(Fosum) & time of offseason(precamp) if I’m correct, than the obvious next question is this: IN SANDY ALDERSON WERE U EXPECTING TO ENCOUNTER GOD? PERFECTION? at least it isn’t 3/36 or 4/24 Isn’t anyone allowed a Mulligan around here?
As to the second complaint for more info my question is this, If u were an LAD fan would u have insisted upon being in the owners’ bedroom so u could anticipate the divorce?
Sports franchises are different? what about Hospitals, Nursing homes? isn’t their intimate financials more important to theior residents & patients than sports franchise’s to fans?
Our concern, is this, WHO will they sell to? As Sterling has undergone a number of financial audits performed by MLB accountants & determined tyo be solvent for the near term running under current ownership it should be presumed that the cash infusion to be garnered by a % sale is NOT necessary to provide operating funds; but more likely to provide the settlement $$ necessary to buy carpetbagger Picard off.
JoeD, this topic being presented here in this manner certainly is a condemnation of your usually selective editorial staff. just a hint, I never expect perfection from anyone, Wilpon,Minaya,Alderson or yourself
I have been criticized for supporting Alderson too much, in fact this is the first time I have written something that is against Alderson so It is not a fair judgement to say I am one of the people just ripping on everyone of Alderson’s moves.
Most of Alderson’s moves I have liked such as Young, Buccholz, Capuano, Harris etc. I just had happend to diagree on this one move.
Pretty well said Maria. Without a lot of money to work with and SO many holes to fill there wasn’t all that much that could be done this off season. This is a clean up season anyway to put this team on a firm footing that with a number of really good performances from 5 or 6 guys and a real solid effort from everyone else could put us in contention for the wold card. Enjoy what ever you get out of this season because nothing is guaranteed in life.
What holes did we have to fill? We just needed some pitching (healthy pitchers) and one or two LHRP and some backups. We are set at C, 1st, 3rd, SS, and in the OF. We didn’t need to get any starters at those postions.
Maybe for the rotation we could have went with both Harang and Penny. They aren’t great but, I think they would have been safer options than Young and Capuano.
Harang and Penny started 29 games combined last year. 56 in 09.
Capuano and Young started 13 games combined last year. 14 in 09.
So Harang and Penny started 58 more games in the last two years than Young and Capuano.
I also think they would even have more upside. and they wouldn’t cost that much more than Young and Capunao.
For the bullpen, I would have went with Brian Fuentes or H Takahshi, then sign somebody like Choate or Joe Beimel. AFTER THAT if you want to sign somebody for depth you can go with a guy like Tankersley.
I wish they would have spent just a little more on some players to make us a better team. I don’t want anybody big, just sign a few guys on a one or 2 year deal, that helps improve the team. That’s all.
Beautifully said Vinny. The funny thing is people like to snark when dedicated fans criticize what was by all rational accounts a horrid offseason. I’m not saying that I’m smarter than Sandy in any walk of life. I’m saying that putting together a competitive club isn’t rocket science. Not when you should have big market resources behind you. Now the Mets were hamstrung by Wilpon/Madoff, and I’m ok with that. I’m not ok with the idea that we were trying to be “flexible and patient.” This club has a sizeable core of veterans. Either you try to win with them, or you start trading them and build for the future. You do no spend at the dollar store like the damn Pirates when you are located in NYC in new stadium. Whether the facade was coming from ownership or the GM, it was insulting. Just admit you’re broke and move on to fix it. What’s the difference between February and December? Just honesty. We still can’t sign anyone, but at least now there’s a real reason.
Why do we need more transparency in the finances of the team?
Are we fans offering to pay down their debt?
If you had bought a ticket to a broadway show do you then have the right to go into the business office of the producers and ask them to open up their ledgers so you can inspect them?
If I buy something from your store should I have the right to investigate all your purchases and financial Data?
Stop assuming this team is yours and that buying a few tickets a year entitles you to pry into the lives of those who run the team.
Cause if the shoe was on the other foot you would cry FOUL and invasion of privacy!
Well said.
I am not saying they need to inform us of every blessed detail. Just realistically what is happening. Dave Howard in 2008 said theres no financial trouble, nothing wrong, no intrest or any need for an investor. Which was just the opposite of the true case.
I am saying they need to stop sugar coating what is going on and tell us what is really going on. Will they need to sell etc.
at the time, that was basically true. Since then, the situation has changed (deteriorated). So just because it may be true now, does not mean he was lying then.
Did you see that article with the video of Erin something that wrote a book on Madoff? Howard attacked her saying that she was lying about numbers and everything and it turned out she was the one telling the truth
actually at the time she printed a retraction and apologized I believe. It was not that cut and dried about her numbers.
Actually it turned out she was dead wrong and admitted as much.
The problem is there are quite a few who are looking to hang the Wilpons thinking they will have to sell the team so they find anyone who thinks they did something bad and quoting them and conveniently forgetting to post the updated report that proved them wrong!
This all started when people claimed the Wilpons LOST thier fortune to madoff and don’t have the money to spend, Now a year later the story is they WON money and shouldn’t have because it was a bogus fund! So they have to pay it back and don’t have money to spend!
Throw enough Mud and maybe some of it will stick.
But it’s mud and it dries out the second any strong sulight hits is for any reasonable length of time and then falls off only to see more mud thrown to try and compensate!
they did actually lose a lot of money in the crash (everything they had invested with him that they thought was part of their assets just vaporized). But at the time of the article, they were well aware of that.
Any…Thats Old outdated and probably totally untrue
if what you said is true then why are the Madoff victims suing him? He would BE a Victim and in effect suing himself!
You say he lost money the Victims claim they WON money…
Make up your damn mind folks!
You want the middle ground which is most likely the TRUTH between the bull that is flying?
1 – Wilpons invested a ton of money with Madoff.
2 – They took a big chunk of it out because they needed it at the time.
3 – They still had some money in the fund (which includes their employee retirement plans!) And consequently did not take that out before the Scheme was uncovered. That money is lost.
4 – The fact of them losing money (if true) will make it almost impossible to prove them guilty of being in on the scam!
5 – While some of those accounts were started by the Wilpons they may not have OWNED ALL of those accounts such as the Employee retirement fund.
6 – They could not have lost MORE than 300 Mil (if any) because if they did then they would be essentially suing themselves! A Victim suing another Victim!
So I think with all we know AS fact it is pretty fair to say that the Winpons if they lost money lost an insignificant amount compared to what they had in the fund and some of those loses are accounts that would never have any impact on team spending or ability to sign FA anyway!
If they won money then obviously they should be in a BETTER position to go and get FAs again, NO EFFECT FROM MADOFF!
They are being sued and they might have to give some of that money back. Probably no more than the profits minus their share they get back for whatever accounts they did lose money on.
Whatever the truth is we should stop quoting INTERNET sources and Rumours put out by people with an agenda thats unrelated to finance and justice but all about getting rid of the hated Wilpons!
You say they lost money which is why they can’t sign FAs
Someone else says they made money and have to give it back so they will not be able to spend this team into contention and have to sell off the team.
So much bull getting thrown around and some of it is so out of date with what current events says!
Not sure i could exactly follow your arguement there, but I think you agreed with me (while later disagreeing with yourself?)
My point that you were talking about was your #3. At the time, the wilpons (and various met accounts as you note) had money invested with Madoff, so this was part of their assets (their on paper wealth).
so when the crash happened, that amount of their wealth vaporized. so yes, they effectively “lost” that money. No different than if you owned stock and one day found out the co. went BK, and the stock was worthless.
Now the suit is looking at the entire investment history to determine who made, in total, from old Bernie. So while the wilpons did take out more than they put in, it does not change the fact that in 2008 they lost overnight significant paper wealth.
as to what impact it has on day to day ops of the mets, or signing FAs, of course I have no clue. Hard to see how it helps, but logically if money they lost was a LT investment (say retirement savings), losing it should have no immediate impact.
analogous would be you losing at age 35 your entire 401(K). you sure lost a lot, and it might screw your retirement, but right now it should have no impact on making your rent payment and normal living expenses.
Yeah I guess you on the part that talked about Logic. You ignored the fact that if they lost money they would have not been sued!
The lawsuit claims they were NOT victims!
That means your fact that claims they lost money wrong!
If they DID lose then they were not in on it. They WIN the lawsuit! No money goes.
If they lost their entire worth then they will get back whatever they invested in the fund when they split it up among the losers. Again they will GET money back!
So no matter which story is true the Wilpons either don’t lose a lot of money or actually get money back!
All that worth you think they lost!
let me try again.
the lawsuit simply says that over 20 years, they took out more than they put in. that is the net gain.
that doesn’t say when they took out the money (could have been years and years ago).
that is totally different than losing the XXmillions of $ that they had invested 12/2008 when the fund crashed.
so if they had 100mill in their account at the end, that they had plans for, then yes, they lost that asset.
net gainers and net losers (in picards world) still lost what they had invested at the end.
the lawsuit is a double whammy. Not only did they lose all the money they thought they had, they have to pay back money that they withdraw (and spent) many years ago.
Always follow your logic out to it’s conclusion…
If they LOST any money then doesn’t the lawyer for the Victims represent the Wilpons as well since they TOO are Victims?
If they lost money isn’t the money they have to give back LESS than what they made in years previous? (And that number has been pretty firmly established as 300 Mil) Which would be Profit MINUS loss?
If they LOST money wouldn’t that be proof enough they didn’t know it was a scam?
If they made money on the fund would they have LESS money to sign FAs?
Apply logic to what you are saying here!
I don’t think they lost any significant money in the fund if any at all.
The Lawyer for the Victims claims the Wilpons didn’t lose any money!
All these facts say the Wilpons didn’t lose any money and even if they did it certainly isn’t their ENTIRE fortune as some are claiming.
They may have lost SOME money but obviously not enough to offset what they made!
And if they lost ANY at all then they will not be able to prove the Wilpons were IN ON THE SCHEME because if they were they would have gotten ALL of their money out before it collapsed!
Clayton u need to realize u r assuming a lot here. Howard may have been referring to day to day operations not necessarily the overall cost of extricating themselves from this financial morass(jusgement or settlement) which I believe is The rationale for an attrempted partial sale to add to their settlement warchest, not to meet the monthlies.
MLB’s forensic audit team had already determined the Wilpons were sufficiently capable of meeting payroll & all other operating expenses on a day 2 day basis.
At a time when u certainly do not want to reveal more about your finances to your advisaries as possible how is it your propose the Wilpons go about fan honesty, real fans will give the benefit of the doubt when necessary. that’s why they are considered fanarticals.
As far as I can determine, the Wilpons ability to appropriately manage this franchise competitively in NYC are over & done & more than likely, there will be new ownership in place before any of this years’ amateues develop enough to make the Bigs.
BTW, ask anyone, I’m the eternal optimist on this site.
Calling this a clean up season is completely WRONG. You don’t have a “clean up ” season with the type of lineup the Mets are putting on the field. Tell Jason Bay, Carlos Beltran, Angel Pagan, & Jose Reyes this is a cleanup season. And clean up for what? Alderson said he’s not spending a lot next season either.
This was not a good offseason and MORE could have been done. More could have and should have been done to get this team a healthy starting pitcher. Another GM could have valued different players and made a trade to get a healthy starter. Even if Chris Young and Capuano work out well you still need Pelfrey, Niese, & Dickey to do well too and that’s certainly no lock. While Collins is an improvement over Manual he still is a yes man for Sandy. Sandy follows the Moneyball sabermetric guidelines to the T and they believe the manager is just a middle man. Nothing could be further than the truth.
Omar Minaya may have made some mistakes, sure, but he would have made a better attempt at being competitive than Saber Sandy did.
The Mets lineup deserved better. This was not a good offseason, starting with the hiring of a front office that follows the same philosophy of some guy in Oakland who’s teams have gotten progressively worse. I’m very skeptical about the future of this club and the decisions on how this team is run makes it harder to root for them all the time.
How did you feel about Davey Johnson as a manager?
Aren’t you one of the people who demands the trade of David Wright? Would that have made it a good offseason?
Maybe $5 million a year for Kevin Millwood?
What line up deserved better? The one that finished 13th in the NL in runs scored?
Yes, that’s the lineup – but only this time with everybody healthy for the first time since 2008.
What does last years lineup have to do with this years lineup?
The Reds finished 11th in RS in the NL in 09, and in 2010 led the NL in runs scored.
And I think if Beltran and Reyes stay healthy this year there is no way we finish 13th in the NL in runs scored. We will score a lot of runs if they can stay healthy.
Maybe the fact that is almost EXACTLY the same roster minus losing Bay and Beltran for half a season each?
They are going to hit better this year and if they don’t then everyone will probably get traded who can be traded and we will start from scratch.
If both Bay and Beltran played a full season last year that would have made a big difference. And Reyes missed time early in the season and had the oblique injury later on.
the roster is a good 50% new. Especially when you consider there were some guys just getting PT work that could be starting now.
6 new pitchers, new 2B, new starting C, bay back, all new bench. A lot changed.
factor in reyes and beltran from the beginning of the year, and it is a lot different team than what started (or finished) last season.
The problem is, even those times that Wright Reyes and Beltran were healthy and hitting, the rest of the line up was below average.
The rest of the lineup wasn’t there!
Bay was out! Reyes was out some too!
Beltran was back in name only. he didn’t return to being Bletran until Sept and Oct. look at his numbers in the Sept/Oct Splits. Look at everyone else’s as well.
Once Beltran started hitting so too did Wright and Davis. Only Pagan had down numbers and he admits he was worn out by the end.
Bay would have likely gained from the increased hitting of everyone else as he would have seen better pitchers.
Thole did! other than 2nd base (and Tejada also had his best hitting in Sept) we basically have the same team we had in September and when you look at those splits from last year you should be nothing but hopeful about the ability of this team to hit.
Where we lost is in the pitching. Sanatan has to be made up for and it’s not likely he will.
But if you look at the team when it FINALLY had most of it’s pieces set (Beltran Reyes Wright Davis Thole Pagan) and throw in Bay’s bat to add to it there is no reason this team can’t hit. More the important question is can it stay healthy!
The rest of the team didn’t hit when Beltran came back it was Beltran that didn’t hit when he first got back and that dominoed on the rest of the lineup.
But once Beltran started swinging the bat they way he should the rest of the team was right there getting hits and scoring runs…
Problem is most people stopped paying attention after August!
I’m talking over the last 6 years. Look at the numbers on any Mets hitter not named Wright Reyes or Beltran in that span. Even in 2006, the offense was suspect.
2007 and 2008 they were still right up there with the Phillies in RS.
They were tied in 2008, but in 2007, the Phillies outscored the Mets by nearly 90 runs.
And again, take out the Big Three and see what happens. The Phillies supporting cast vastly outperformed ours the last 6 years.
The last 6 years? Well they had plenty of hitting the first 4, not enough Pitching! The Last two have been injury plagued.
Here are the guys they had around then those first 4 years
Player OBP SLG BA HR
2008
Delgado .353 .518 .271 38
Church .346 .439 .276 12
Tatis .369 .484 .297 11
Pitching was Santana, Pelfrey, Perez Maine and a sometimes Martinez. Not enough and another Late season collapse.
2007
Lo Duca .311 .378 .272 9
Delgado .333.448.258 24
Green .352 .430 .291 10
Alou .392 .524 .341 13
Pitching was Glavine, Maine, Perez and Hernandez.
Historic collapse! We collapse AFTER pedro came back from Injury!
2006
Green .344 .432 .277 15
Delgado .361 .548 .265 38
Lo Duca .355 .428 .318 5
Valentin .330 .490 .271 18
Chavez .348 .431 .306 4
Alou .352 .571 .301 22 (not a full season)
Had some Pitching but Pedro started signs of injury
Glavine Trachsel Hernandez Martinez Wagner and the emergence of Maine
Made it to within a game of the WS.
2005 (Beltran just arrives)
Floyd .358 .505 .273 34
Piazza was on his way out
Cameron was hurt
but this is about the only year you can claim we didn’t hit around those three.
We had pitching but not enough batting as we were in transition.
So we had the hitting but not the pitching and then the pitching was there except for the two years we had no hitters and in between batting half seasons of players along the way.
If we don’t collapse at the end of the season (remember having to win only one game to clinch and then not winning it?) this team has had it’s chances. And in those two years if not for some injuries we might have made the playoffs.
This team has really had all it’s shortcomings due to some untimely injury. They had enough but never had it for an entire season!
last year was just the worst case of that happening because it affected both Reyes and Beltran for the first time!
I appreciate your comments Maria -and totally agree. I too do not expect our team to win the WS this year, but I’m still getting pretty excited at starting the new season. Like all the other teams, we start with a clean fresh canvas, and in my opinion we’ve got some great guys with great attitudes who are raring to go and prove everyone wrong. If I had one-tenth of the motivation I KNOW is inside Carlos, Jose and Jason – to name the obvious – I’d certainly be excelling in my job!! And just wait until Johann comes back, whenever that might be…and you know he’ll be back. What a combination of young kids anxious to prove themselves and make a mark – and past-proven veterans who so want to remove the memories of recent poor performance due to unexpected injuries. And for those cynics out there – the financial motivations in a final contract year won’t hurt, either. I love baseball, I love each new Spring and I love my NY Metsies! Plenty of time to growse and complain and point out all the problems and negatives later…after (if?) they happen! Let’s Go Mets!
dEBBIE, AS I’M ALREADY VERY HAPPILY MARRIED, CAN I STALK U? LOL
I have been a Met fan from their inception, the ride has been joyful at times, frustrating and also bewildering. With that said. we all have families and members who are not always acting in the best intrest of the whole, do we throw them out (if only we could). Please everyone relax enjoy spring traing and LET’s GO METS.
Fossum? he is a MiL invite/ST fodder type. If you notice around the league, these kind of players are signing with every team. Hell, they Yankees just signed Ayala!
Casey pitched in japan last year, so bringing him in gives another guy to pitch in scrimmages, and they get a look just in case he learned something new.
If he shows some potential, he goes to AAA to be filler. If he looks amazing (maybe he learned a gyroball in Japan!) he could earn a loogy spot. Or most likely, he sucks and gets released.
I can’t be that harsh on the move since it was neither a ML contract, or someone they were counting on at all to help out.
As to the idea the fans deserve more details, no we don’t. A team is not a different kind of business in that regard. Why are so many people obsessed with knowing the gory details of the wilpons finances? Just concentrate on enjoying the team and the games!
Metsie, to share my understanding of all this BS guesstamationing, the Best thing to happen for us fans vis a vis fairness is this is decideded ultimately by a JUDGE not a JURY & prior to that the mediation will be overseen by a man, whom I’m politically diametricly opposed to; but concur to describe him as a pillar of FAIRNESS, MARIO CUOMO. foer the sake of my example Sterling Enterprises as well as every
aDOFF DEEP POCKETED INVESTOR handed over a lump sum of $$$ to Bernie let’s refer to that seed money as ‘X’, subsequent additional “deposits” as X+, every investor’s X was individually calibrated(valued) some never advanced to an X+ factor; but remained @ X. Maidoff t simulate his keeping his ROI promises published & deceminated bogus account statements showing consistant returns of 10-12% in line with his promisary 10% guarantee he used as bait to land the biggest fish. Obviously, over time, at that sizable a retun those ficticous account balances, assuming zero withdrawals, exponentaLY grew to behemoth sized balances. value, ‘Y’. iN PAST PONZI SCHEME RESTORATIONS THE AMOUNT USED TO ESTABLISH A ‘VICTIM’S’ RESTORATION POINT was typically & usually based upon Y value not X or X+(amounts acxtually taken out of a victim’s ‘wallet’ & handed to Madoff) Piccard, sought to use X & X+ as the restoration value in lieu of typical & usual Y value with the arguement that Y represents bogus & ficticous values that never existed, in actual $$$; but X & X+ were initially real dollars given & lost to Madoff’s scheme.
Point of order, to this point I am in total Picard agreement; but as is obvious his use of X,X+ in lieu of Y considerablY reduced the value of each claim.
Realizing the devaluation he was proposing, the “victims” Picard was assigned to protect & act for hired separate representation for their group & brought aa motion before the court to dismiss Picard & ASSIGN A NEW CUSTODIAN IN HIS PLACE. The nuts & bolts as I see this is that the Wilpons X value was between $200-300M earmarked specifically for escrow holdings with the designation being the Salary dollars earned by those players with deferred payment clauses in their negotiated contracts(Bonilla,Franco, Santana,Beltran,etc)each player requiing a separate account for their monies due as the terms of each player’s deal was different in regards to deferral period & interest being earned(typically bet 1% & 5%) also deposited into separate accounts were A Sterling employees’ 401K accounts for those opting Madoff as therir investment CHOICE. IN ADDITION THE STERLING EeQUITIES CORPORATE retirement account covering the entire Sterling employee population(incl exec,partners), All of these subsequent deposits constitute Sterling X+ value. Each of these accounts would have generated their own individual set of documentation from Maidoff representing it’s socalled “value(a factor I believe discredits the notion thAt ONLY Bermie was involved)
Over time as these ‘escrow’ accounts matured & came due to reimburse said players’ their previously deferred earnings. withdrawals by the Wilpons were necessary to satisfy their contractual obligations it is thses withdrawals, over time, that Picard is basing his claims on. As they combined to exceed the X+ value by a significant, yet to be deciphered exact amount, a natural occurance as Maidoff was returning @ a 10% increase value & Sterling had contracted with the players a 1-5% return with the difference remaining with Sterling.
This is where Picard’s estimation of loss being X,X+ over Y hurts Sterling as the total Y malue for Sterling was $500M + withdrawals made reptresenting the highest potential for Y.(the one-time press estimation sourcr for the intital rumors of loss estimated @ $750M) Picard claims that since Sterling ultimately removed a VALUE CONSIDERABLY HIGHER THAN x+ they are responsible to payback ALL that was withdrawn and that they “SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE” of ILLEGALITY BEING IN PLAY thus a PENALTY should be assessed for misconduct in not reporting the suspicions they SHOULD HAVE HAD.
Had the usual definition of loss be a consideration, the current Madoff supplied balance, the Wilpons claim to ‘believe’ existed of $500M would be taken into account as a Sterling loss factor. It is not being considered as such;(FOR FAN UNDERSTANDING ONLY) the Wilpons claims to believe thay had more than $500M in existance as a Y warchest,fallback,hedge against losses, once Madoff was exposaed, stripped them of tyhis SECURITY & suddenly they stopped climbing up the payroll ladder & looked down in panic so great it literally FROZE thier movements as thay clung to where they were with deathgrip like strength, while dismissing their guide(Minaya) that spurred thenm that high up the ladder.
Metsie, I hope this clarifies this swamp gas filled conjecture for u.
62 I agree that we are the worst ones to judge guilt or innocence, and we should not enter into accusation at all unless we have an intimate knowledge. What we are seeing for the most part is rumour, conjecture and in some cases outright mis-information and it is being used to make those judgements….
I read the complaint and I get what Picard is trying to do but it is predicated on the fact that the Wilpons KNEW it was a scam. If they had known would they have left money in the fund so it could be considered a loss?
If they invested 500 Mil and took out 750 mil are they really supposed to be punished for doing something that would be legal if it was a real investment fund?
Giving back the profits YES! That money truly was not theirs but the original 500 Mil was.
If they want the Wilpons to share in the loss then the fair thing to do is to have them pay back what wasn’t theirs and charge a REAL interest rate for what would be a LOAN!
If they had lent money to the WIlpons in a real fund this would be their profit. So in essence the victims would be entitled to whatever they would have made if they had loaned the money to the Wilpons. That rate would not be the % promised by Madoff to them but based on the rate of lending over that period of time which would be at most 2-10%.
But Picard is trying to get the money they made AND the money the Wilpons put in as well.
It would be fine to try and have the Wilpons share in the losses but that should not exceed what the victims could REASONABLY make if they had invested in the Wilpons directly!
So the only way they will pay more than the interest on 300 Mil is if Picard can prove they were in on it. To say the WIlpons should have known flies both ways. Why didn’t the Victims know too then if it was so obvious!
I don’t know what the outcome will be and I don’t really care what it is!
All I know is with the 300 Mil number being pretty solid whatever the outcome is is not going to force the WIlpons to sell control of the team anytime soon and those who are hoping that the Madoff situation will, had better find some other star to wish upon!
Cause even if they have to give back more than 300 Mil it won’t be all that much more than if the Wilpons took a loan out and paid interest on it.
Will it hurt them? Sure but if they had 500 Mil to put in Madoff they got plenty left to continue to control the team.