Howard’s Words Come Back To Bite Him On The…

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• t agee February 8, 2011 at 7:32 am

  She was right in the same way a coach who goes for it on 4th and 10 from his own 15 is right if he makes it. In the interview she relies on her opinion and her “sources” to stand by her claim and the only reason the Mets are even mentioned is to garner some publicity for the book she’s selling. In the meantime she herself has admitted that her sources were wrong about the size of the Wilpon’s loss and in the interview actually increases the loss from 300M to 700M when in fact it turns out it was 48M. Hmmm. 700M or 48M? Very similar.

  The facts are that after the Wilpon’s stated that the loss of the Madoff money wouldn’t affect the day to day operations of the Mets they committed 41M – 59M to add TWO closers, 36M to resign Perez and the following season added 66M-80M to add a LFer. Hardly the kinds of commitments a prospective buyer would like to see on the balance sheet and also not the kind of financial commitment a team nearing insolvency would be making.

  It wasn’t until the lawsuit was filed that things changed in respect to adding payroll or needing to sell part/all of the team. That was well AFTER this interview and the Wilpon’s couldn’t have been aware that Picard was going to try to go after them for monies above what they had gained in the scam. They also could not have been aware that each individual account was going to judged independently of all the others. In other words Picard is only looking at those funds that made money, those that lost are not subtracted off the figure of the net gainers. The funds that lost money will only be subject to Picards clawback attempts and only after all those who were held to a lower standard in terms of fault have been satisfied and by that time there will be nothing left. Totally different set of circumstances than could have reasonably been expected at the time and again her “opinion” may have turned out to be right but the way she got it (her sources) could not have been more wrong.
  • happy little mets fans February 8, 2011 at 9:05 am

    support the wilpons t agee. show the world what a mental midget you are… give them all your money. they want it, they need it and most of all the keep the Mets horrible. Thanks for the laughs agee. maybe you can give them a loan, they seem very good at getting loans. ah you little metsies… you don’t have a clue. your team hasn’t won in 25 years but you defend the crooked little wilpons…good for you… they are your kind of men t agee. SAVE THE WILPONS!
    • Mr North Jersey February 8, 2011 at 11:44 am

      Still not out of the closet? I bet you have a MR. Met wallpapaer on your computer don’t you?

      Where will you be on Opening Day again? We can have a drink and celebrate you finally admitting what everyone here knows that you are.
• JerryG15 February 8, 2011 at 7:41 am

  While it’s fun to call the owners liars and thieves etc……because it makes us feel like we may be smart enough to understand all this.

  Can we take a step back think for one second. This lawsuit did not hit until December 10 well AFTER this interview and en light of said lawsuit don’t you think they are actually trying to do the right thing and sell part(s) of the organization so it doesn’t take a hit?

  I know I’m in the minority around here, but I think they are doing the right thing and are actually putting the team ahead and thinking long term instead of being crooks and running it into the ground.
• john February 8, 2011 at 7:56 am

  Not surprised that it would take a post that long to somehow explain this away. Howard comes off as boorish and wrong. Arvedlund said that it was from Madoff losses and predicted that Mets would have to sell or get investor within 1 to 2 seasons. Well, the Mets are looking for an investor because of Madoff, and whether they will eventually need more is up in the air. That’s a pretty good prediction. Howard not only denied all of it but repeatedly attacked her credibility and work, but with words like bogus implied that she just made it up. He must feel like a fool looking back at this. He sure looks like one, a rude one at that.
  • t agee February 8, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Well she has since that interview retracted HER statements. She stated in the interview that the Wilpon’s lost 700 million dollars in the ponzi scheme. That wasn’t true, which she now acknowledges. That “bogus” statement is what led to her conclusion that they would need to sell all or part of the team. 700 million is not 48 million. She based her opinion on information that she now admits wasn’t even close to accurate and even at the time she was rendering her “opinion”, that’s all she offered as fact. Her opinion and her sources which turned out to have bogus information. She didn’t even know that a NY Post article was a reprint of an article that had appeared elsewhere 4 months before. Some journalist.

    The Wilpons did take on additional payroll up to 170 million dollars more since the scheme unraveled, 80M of which was AFTER this interview. Not what you would expect of a financially strapped organization searching for a sale of part of the team in order to raise capital.

    Her conclusion turned out to be correct even though the information she based it on WAS “bogus” only because the trustee has set his sights on up to One Billion Dollars in the clawback attempt. At the time of the interview Howard was correct and the “journalist” was wrong. That should be pretty easy to see.
• john February 8, 2011 at 8:49 am

  I’m still not sure I get what you’re saying about Howard. Are you saying that he doesn’t sound like a foolish ass now?
  • happy little mets fans February 8, 2011 at 9:08 am

    don’t you get it john… Howard works for the Wilpons…agee see the wilpons as his god. therefore howard is ione of the prince’s of FLUSHing. agee wants to be a wilpon tool, he actually is a wilpon tool, but unlike howard he does it for free. SAVE THE WILPONS…give them all your money agee.
  • t agee February 8, 2011 at 10:08 am

    I’m saying if the Wilpon’s were negotiating to give back the difference between what they put in and what they took out, there would be no need for them to consider selling the team.

    The “journalist” pegged their losses in the interview at 700M. That was what she was defending in the interview. That’s how she arrived at her conclusion they would have to sell. She now admits that her “two decades long front office person” she used as the source for her conclusion was wrong. They didn’t “lose” 700M as she stated, they made 48M.

    At the time of the interview her estimates of their losses were off by about 750 million dollars. Apparently they didn’t “lose” any money in the scheme, they actually made money.

    Her assertion that they would have to sell was based on the belief that they had lost 700M. Nowhere in the interview is clawback or additional penalties mentioned. She was speaking from a standpoint that they lost 700M when in fact they did not.

    She got it right even though she was dead wrong in her facts. She got it right simply by happenstance after the book came out, after the lawsuit was filed.

    She had it wrong because her “source” had it wrong. Based on everything known at that time she was wrong and Howard was right. Things changed dramatically when the lawsuit was filed but that doesn’t change what the situation was at the time of the interview.
    • john February 8, 2011 at 10:24 am

      So you’re saying Howard doesn’t sound like a foolish ass?
      • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 11:00 am

        No more of a foolish ass than the woman who said they LOST 700 Million when the lawyer for the Victims claims they MADE money!

        The facts prove she was talking out of her ass and all the SOURCES that told her they lost money were dead WRONG!
• GSS February 8, 2011 at 11:48 am

  What is it that we want from the Wilpons? They made investments (like many people did) with a (#*&$ crook! They were victimized! And most fans could care less! That’s nice: so let’s kick Fred and Jeff as hard was we can and vilify them! This makes no sense. Certainly they may never envisioned getting sued and, when that happened, it changed everything. Personally, I wish them well. As a fan and season ticket holder, I feel badly for them. Every move they make, fans line up to criticize them. Enough already. We have turned so distrusting that we constantly question motive, etc. We lambaste them for being “cheap” despite the fact they hired a moron in Omar to be spend money unwisely and that they will still have a huge payroll. Again, in my view, they were victimized by Omar and his ways. It’s a new day with a new management team and the Wilpons are considering selling part of their team. That’s sad. As fans we need to focus on the product (good, bad or indifferent) and also accept Alderson’s LONG TERM plan. Let’s pull for them and stop pushing against them. If you don’t like it, don’t go to Citi. And go be a Yankees or Phillies fan if that will make you feel better. But fans need to stop this insanity. Why can’t we show support for a change? As if the Wilpons wanted this mess on their hands? I’m disgusted…
  • Mr North Jersey February 8, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Well said.
    • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 1:27 pm

      I don’t disagree with what he was trying to say but I do have a real problem with people in this country always trying to be the VICTIM!

      If we spent as much time trying to be the hero as we do in being the victim the country wouldn’t be in the shape it is right now!

      Omar didn’t victimize the Wilpons nor the fans.

      HEALTH did! Maybe if your conspiratorial you might think that the injuries started right after someone got banned for dosing on the team and maybe they were all roiding up in some little way and it came back to roost once the rules got stricter.

      But thats a pretty deep conspiracy that would only be entertained by Oliver Stone! And even then the players will have victimized themselves as much as anyone else!

      Lets stop trying to be victims around here and move onto trying to be smart!
      We will be better for it in the end!

      I say fix the problem not the blame!
      Fixing the blame is not productive!
      • t agee February 8, 2011 at 1:57 pm

        It was hardly just health. It was a s**t bench, ill conceived rosters, not addressing the Perez and Castillo lack of performance and ultimately a roster so top heavy in salary that too many positions were filled strictly by budget considerations instead of usefulness.

        By the 6th year of Minaya’s plan he had committed 10 of the 25 roster spots to players that really didn’t belong in MLB in 2010. GMJ, Jacobs, Cora, Cattalonotto, Perez, Castillo, Carter, Mejia, Tatis and Francouer. Later on there was Feliciano, Hessman, Tejada, Nickeas, Arias. This is ineptitude on a grand scale, and again in year SIX of his plan. Man I wonder what years 7 8 and 9 were going to look like? Anyone not blown away by this incompetent of a roster is just in denial.

        Of those mentioned above only Francouer (and possibly Castillo as a minimum wage waiver wire pick up) will be in the Majors in 2011 and to do so he had to go to the worst team in MLB and take a 50% pay cut to do so.

        Oh no Metsie, injuries were not the only reason this team failed. They failed because the GM didn’t plan for injuries despite having a huge amount of them the year before, and he didn’t adequately plan for them because he spent so much money on the soon to be injured players that he had nothing left for the bench and AAA. Imagine if Wright had gotten hurt. We would have had some combination of Tatis/Cat/Hessman. I can see the line up right now.

        Reyes, Pagan, Davis, Francouer, Hessman, Cora, Thole, GMJ, Pitcher. Now that would have been a historic low OB% line up of all time. In the neighborhood of about .285. No it wasn’t all injuries.
        • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 3:36 pm

          Well how can you put together bench when your busy trying to find replacements for all your big signings that got hurt?

          Look at every big signing we made?

          Pedro Hurt
          beltran hurt
          Delgado hurt
          Wagner hurt
          Maine Hurt
          Perez Hurt
          Castillo Hurt
          Santana Hurt
          K-Rod Self Mutilated
          Jason Bay Hurt (Kind of self inflicted as well)

          you can’t really build a bench when you have to trade away what bench you have to fill in for the loss of starters!

          Just about everyone Omar ever gave a big contract to has gotten hurt.

          Only guy who hasn’t is Wright which is why I don’t understand why people think he is part of the problem here! At least he has been healthy and semi consistent with only one really down year in his time here.

          Could we have improved the bench, Sure but it is much more difficult when half that bench is forced to be starters while guys who probably shouldn’t have been here at all take their place on the bench because thats all that is left!
          • t agee February 8, 2011 at 4:26 pm

            Metsie, There were guys here that didn’t belong in the Majors as THE PLAN. and not in year 1, 2 or 3. Year SIX. With SIX years to develop a team we wound up with Cora, Carter and Cattalonotto on the bench. Jacobs a reject from KC and GMJ a reject from the Angels in the starting line up. Why? Because he ran out of money. He spent so much money on the top 10 players he had nothing left for the bench.

            He didn’t trade the bench to fill in for injured starters. He DFA’d everyone cause they sucked. Right in the middle of the season. Now how, even with some payroll stashed away was he going to find decent, let alone complimentary parts for the bench? Impossible, that’s how we wound up with his AAA players up here and they sucked too. SIX years to put a couple decent OFer’s and a couple decent IFers in AAA and he let the season ride on pure hope AFTER we had been decimated the year before. Unbelivable.

            Also your forgetting Alou, El-Duque, Valentin, Fern, Sanchez, Church, Schowenweiss, Shefield. The guys he did let go didn’t get hurt. Bradford, Oliver, Castro, Bannister, Bell, Carp, Vargas, Smith.

            Really with 140 million dollars on the payroll the very least you could expect was some sort of a well conceived bench. A guy who came in and you were always glad when he did. A guy like Endy. Oh yeah he got rid of him too.
            • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 4:39 pm

              Dude those guys weren’t part of the plan. The plan never had two season to ever be enacted before someone got hurt and we had to replce them with second choice which led us to have to sign cora catalanotto and even GMJ to try and fill in for the injury.

              Those weren’t PLANS those were desperation signings because you can’t go and buy a free agent 1st basemen when they aren’t free agents yet!

              the PLAN was to buy/not trade for talent to hold us while he rebuilt the minors.

              Injuries always stopped the plan because then we needed to trade or promote a backup into a a starting replacement which meant a guy who shouldn’t be here was now BENCH! (Cora Catalanotto etc etc…)

              Hell Francouer was one of those types of moves!
              The plan never got off the ground!

              The PLAN he HAD worked the first year and came close the next two. But the Injuries kept getting in the way.

              You have never seen Minay’s plan implemented other than those first two years. And already in Year Two the injuries cut it short and forced panic roster moves that were not PLANNED!
  • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    I can’t support them.
    Wilpons forced their employee’s pension fund on Madoff and when Wilpons bailed out ,they let the fund hanged dry.
    What kind of scumbags do this to people who worked for them all their lives?
    • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 1:30 pm

      Prove they forced it on them. There is no LAW in the land that says you have to join an employess pension fund. In fact most are encouraged to stay out of them and instead set up an IRA!

      The only reason to join one is to get matching funds!
      • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 1:54 pm

        Wilpons were the officers for the fund according to the suit by the fund.
        Are you Wilpons’ lawyer now? Good.
        Ok , Maybe the pension fund wasn’t forced membership , but Wilpons put the fund with Madoff, right?
        They should’ve bailed the fund out when they bailed themselves out.
        I know you would ‘ve bailed yourself out before bailing anybody out like Wilpons, so you don’t see anything wrong here. Because it is not illegal.
        But where I come from ,we bail the employees out before anything.
        I know we are stupid unlike you and Wilpons.
        • t agee February 8, 2011 at 2:06 pm

          Mets 2012, I don’t think that the Wilpon’s bailed themselves out. I believe they had a lot (or thought they did) of money still in there. It’s just that through 25 years of depositing and withdrawing they had pulled out more over time than they put in.

          If there is a trial we’ll probably hear about the deposits vs. the withdrawls but I’m pretty sure I’m right about that. They had big dollars still “in” on 12/11/2008 and so did their employees 401K which the lawsuit does indicate the Madoff group was one of the options. They didn’t pull all their money out on 12/10/2008 and leave the cleaning crew with nothing.
          • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 2:15 pm

            t agee,

            I think they pulled something like $300 mils out and left some.
            I am not sure about the###.
            We will find out all the facts soon enough.
            I don’t care what they do with their $$$.
            BUT I HATE PEOPLE WHO SAVE THEMSELVES AND LEAVE THEIR WORKERS HANGING DRY.
            • t agee February 8, 2011 at 2:20 pm

              2012, If that does turn out to be the case I would feel exactly the same way you do. That would really be the ultimate betrayal and they would deserve what ever came their way.
              • GSS February 8, 2011 at 2:56 pm

                I agree, T Agee. None of us may personally know the Wilpons to affirm whether or not they are scumbags. But based on never hearing anything to support this, I am tempted to think not. Fred’s owned at least part of the Mets for 30 years. I believe he’s quite reputable. As for the Pension Fund and the moneys the Wilpons took out… I will tell you that in our small office here we have both our corporate investments and our company’s 401K Fund in Merrill Lynch. We constantly have moneys going in and out of our investment accounts. But our 401K Fund most always takes deposits and no withdrawals. Why and how would the Wilpons take $$ out of the 401K Fund. They cannot! It’s in trust! That the Wilpons withdrew their investment funds over time while the Pension Fund got (#*&$#-ed is not their fault. As for Madoff, the SEC thought he was legit, too. So WTF?
              • t agee February 8, 2011 at 4:45 pm

                GSS, According to the lawsuit Merrill Lynch wouldn’t do business with Madoff and many other individuals and companies wouldn’t either. One guy sent a 17 page letter to the SEC in 1995 claiming the whole thing was a scam. Makes you wonder just how many opportunities were missed by the SEC.

                Just wait till the SEC gets sued and then we’ll all be paying restitution to people who were crowing all these years about getting 16% on their money every quarter, quarter after quarter while the rest of us were getting ready to bailout huge corporations that were using scandelous business practices that cost many people THEIR wealth.

                I’ll tell you GSS, the wealthy will never lose a dime as long as they have the taxpayer to bail them out.
        • Mr North Jersey February 8, 2011 at 2:21 pm

          The point is that you don’t have the full story and are making assumptions based on smaller pieces of a bigger story. If you and people in general wish to form an opinion based on what you/they have seen so far there is nothing to stop you from doing so but for me rather than jumping to conclusions I’d rather wait to see what the facts bear out and act accordingly. I say this cause before the words Bernie Madoff were ever uttered Mr Wilpon has and still has a reputation of being a good and fair man with everyone that has ever had dealings with him. In the end he may be as big a deceiver and liar as Mr Madoff was but I will wait to see if that is proven true 1st and for now give him the benefit of the doubt rather than rush to judgement.
          • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 2:29 pm

            Fair enough.
        • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 3:28 pm

          Yes according to the guy trying to sue him…

          According to the District attorney they were not part of the scam.

          It’s easy to accuse…even someone as dimwitted as you can do that!

          But PROVE IT! There is the problem with your argument!

          If they could PROVE it the Wilpons would already be in jail. Since they are not it is an unproved and therefore FABRICATED fact!

          Why would they be officers in the fund? Because they were probably MORE invested in it than anyone else!
          But you won’t realize this until you grow up and get your workers permit and find out how stocks, funds and retiement plans work!
          • GSS February 8, 2011 at 3:37 pm

            They may have been officers in the fund because their company (Sterling Equities) sponsored the fund? I’m not sure but it most certainly had to be held in trust. We have the same thing here. But we do not own the fund and cannot touch our employees’ money. But we can choose another bank/investment group as our trustee…. It’s all very unfortunate. No one should assume the Wilpons are so cold and calculating to think they don’t care about their employees either. Someone out there please tell me a story you’ve heard about how evil they are. Please. Because I’ve not heard one. Whoever on here said to wait until we learn all the facts nailed it! For now let’s reserve judgment on these guys.
            • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 4:26 pm

              GSS when we say the fund we are talking about the entire Madoff scheme. It was in essence a fake investing firm that takes money but never actually invests in anything just moves it around to appear like they are investing it in something.

              The Wilpons had their own account and therefore were a SHAREHOLDER.
              The employees retirement plan was with this fake investment firm and each employee would then have their own account and would also be considered shareholders in the same fund.

              The wilpons withdrew the money from their own personal account but did not make a withdrawal on behalf of the employees. As you correctly stated the Wilpons could not have taken that money out if they wanted to. That would be left up to the employees individually to cash out their account which they could do at any time if they had rolled it over into an IRA without penalty.

              Your company picked Merril Lynch (and you came really close to getting screwed by them as well if they had gone under!) and Sterling picked Madoff. Your company did a little better than Wilpon did, thats a given.

              The officers (or board members) of the fund will ALWAYS be comprised of the people who have the most money (or shares) invested in the fund. Works that way no matter what the company is! if the employees had more money in the fund than anyone else they TOO would have been officers of the fund! Would they be in on it despite the fact their only contribution was being stupid to put money in?

              So this is the point that is missed or ignored by the Wilpon Hating club.

              They just hate the Wilpons because the team didn’t win and firing Omar and manuel just wasn’t enough to satisfy them.

              They don’t have a clue nor want to know how the fund or retirement plans work. thats why they usually lose money in their retirement fund unless they are paying careful attention!

              Doesn’t mean your in on it because your dumb enough to trust him with more money than anyone else.

              And deciding to cash out of THEIR PERSONAL accounts does not mean they knew it was a scam and left to leave everyone else still in it exposed.

              They needed money to build a stadium and a TV Network (an expensive proposition I can tell you) and still pay 140 Million a year to a 4th placed team who no one wanted to go see.

              The Employees did what employees always do they ignore the 401K or retirement plan because they don’t really understand it.

              And when you don’t really think about where your money is going it usually finds a way to go away!
              • GSS February 8, 2011 at 6:20 pm

                Thanks for a intelligent reply and one that helped explain better than anything else I’ve read here.n
          • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 4:08 pm

            Legal, illegal….
            I am talking about Ethics and morality which you know nothing about.
            Only thing your parents talked about was stocks, funds and retirements. Good for you.
            Let me tell you about the retirement.
            I moved to the Olympic Peninsula of the Northwest 20 years ago from NYC.
            Far away from cities…..Not many people, I walked to the bluff with my dog every day. From the bluff you see whales during the summer.
            I am still working, traveling quite a bit, will work until I die and has a small farm for amusement.
            And I don’t need to think about stocks, funds and retirement fund.
            I quitted the country club last year because of the endless talk of stocks, fund and retirement.

            Some people work to retire, some people work for humanity which you have no idea of.
            What humanity, right?
            To give you some idea about my life, I will be leaving for Asia tomorrow, and stay in Korea and India for 4 months to work on humanity.
            In India, I will be traveling Rajasthan and Goa.
            Maybe I need a working permit for that. Can you find me one?
            I am working on my own, so nobody is funding me.
            • GSS February 8, 2011 at 4:17 pm

              WTF are you talking about? I guess Happy Hour started already for you, huh? You’re whacked!
              • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 5:39 pm

                GSS
                “But you won’t realize this until you grow up and get your workers permit and find out how stocks, funds and retirement plans work!” Metsie’s response to me.
                Metsie ‘s been calling me the unemployed loser who needed a workers permit and worse because I ‘ve been attacking Wilpons for their bailing themselves out without bailing the employee’s pension fund.
                Sorry it was too long, but Metsie’s been very personal on this which is very curious.
            • Metsie February 8, 2011 at 4:28 pm

              Odd for a guy with no ethics to be so concerned about them…

              What does Ethics say about LIBEL and False accusations…

              Are they ETHICAL?

              Hello Pot?, Kettle on the phone for you!

              What WOULD have been unethical AND illegal is the Wilpons moving employee money without the employee’s permission!

              The money they moved was THIERS! The money they did not move was not!
              • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 5:53 pm

                Metsie,

                When they bailed out, why didn’t they try to save their employee’s money.
                If you are the officers of the fund, you are responsible for $$$$.
                It was the employee’s money but Wilpons had to try to protect them.
                It is good you are using the lawyer’s talk, libel…..,give a break.
• GSS February 8, 2011 at 6:16 pm

  Mets2012: You talk like an idiot and you’re doing nothing distinguish yourself. Why would the Wilpons touch the employees’ money? You sound like you believe they were AWARE of the ponzi scheme and that they were complicit partners in the scheme. Your replies lack all intelligence. Do yourself a favor and STFU already. Let’s agree to this: IT’S ALL VERY UNFORTUNATE. Madoff is the criminal here but few have said squat about him and the SEC’s incompetence.
  • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    GSS,
    I know I sounded like an idiot.
    But when somebody introduced hundreds of investors including their employee’s pension fund to a crook , bailed themselves out and says I didn’t know , it doesn’t make sense for idiots like me.
    It has been going on for decades.
    SEC was incompetent because so many co -crooks were busy pocketing their ridiculous returns.
    Why should they report to SEC to kill their geese who lays the golden egg .
    I just can’t believe that Wilpons were that stupid. I am stupid enough to be duped by Madoff though.
    The truth will come out, so we don’t have to work ourselves out.
  • mets2012 February 8, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    GSS,

    What I’ve saying was what the employees said in their suit against Wilpons.

    I think Wilpons and his lawyers’ been saying the same thing as you said to me.
    “You sound like idiots.”
    ” Do yourself a favor and STFU already. Let’s agree to this: IT’S ALL VERY UNFORTUNATE. Madoff is the criminal here but few have said squat about him and the SEC’s incompetence.”
    Metsie’s been doing the same thing to me.
    Poor employees who’ve worked for Wilpons all their lives, lost everything and being called idiots and worse.

    We will see how this will turn out.
    I don’t think it will turn out good for Wilpons.