And if Murphy cannot field at an acceptable Major League level, then that should be held against him. Nobody has said we just want a body out at 2B. Everyone here agrees that there should be a standard to field the position. The disagreement seems to be just what that standard should be.

I say, if Murphy can prove to be a league average secondbaseman (which major league scouts are saying he can), his offense will make him the best option. If they want to use Hu or Emaus as a late inning defensive replacement or a pinch runner, I’m fine with that.

If Murphy cannot show adequate defense, then they weigh their other options.

Putting a cardboard cutout in the field because he hits a little better is as good as not having anyone to catch the ball at all!

BATTING PRACTICE!

And there are no outs in batting practice which makes whatever you think your going to get out his better hitting irrelevant because he can’t get off the field to get to the batters box!

Thank you for making my point!

he sure can’t field it on his own!

Try looking at it this way…

Take all the fielders off the field.
Now it’s one on one Pitcher as batter like you said.”

Then we’re not playing baseball, we’re having batting practice.

“Or when Derek Jeter made that now famous cutoff running towards 1B dugout, intercepted bad throw and relayed to plate for an out?”

GIAMBI WAS SAFE! Besides, that play had more to do with him not sliding than Flatfoot being a great short stop.

“These debates have become boring and laborious now”

Hey, if you insist on not learning…

“feel like I’m teaching baseball 101 to a new wave of fantasy people ”

Fantasy people? This is just went down a road I am not following.

“who have no respect or desire to learn what the game is really about ”

How do you get that? Because they look at things different than you? Because they challenge traditional assumptions?

YOU TEACH KIDS TO SWING A BAT! You do not play in the majors! You do not scout for major league teams. You do not analyze for any major media sources.

“Instead they base their knowledge (or lack of) on a misleading belief of numbers.”

Ya, because I haven’t lived and died with this team for 30 years. Because I didn’t spend every night of my childhood dreaming of playing in the World Series. Because the times I’ve been closest to my dad haven’t been while watching Met games. Because I don’t bore my girlfriend to death complaining about baseball.

Has it occurred to you that maybe people dedicate enough time to learn and/or develop this complex formulas if they didn’t love baseball and want to learn as much as possible about the game? Part of it is about making the game more accessible to everyone.

Wow…

Right and the pitcher will FAIL if there is no one to catch the ball when it is hit!

he sure can’t field it on his own!

Try looking at it this way…

Take all the fielders off the field.
Now it’s one on one Pitcher as batter like you said.

Who is going to win the conflict you think is important?

I know you stratomatic stats only guys place so much importance on hitting but the truth is you don’t get to hit Unless you can get the other side out!

And bad fielding is a great way to never get that other side out!
Doesn’t matter how many hitters you have in your lineup if your second baseman can’t catch the ball and the other side bats around 10 times!

Or when a smart infielder help redirects the outfielder to throw out a trailing runner on base instead of throw to plate?

Or when Derek Jeter made that now famous cutoff running towards 1B dugout, intercepted bad throw and relayed to plate for an out?

These debates have become boring and laborious now because I feel like I’m teaching baseball 101 to a new wave of fantasy people who have no respect or desire to learn what the game is really about and what it takes to win. Instead they base their knowledge (or lack of) on a misleading belief of numbers.

Remember, the pitcher/batter conflict is the central part of the game. everything else revolves around that.

why settle for a weak hitter as opposed to a weak batter?
Well because a batter has an affect on only 3 guys on the field, A bad fielder (especially a 2B) has a bad affect on 7! SS, 1B and all your starters!

A bad batter can at best affect 3 guys on base and the guy who hits behind him!

If Murphy proves adequate at 2B (ie, league median) and hits like we’ve seen him, then he would be fine at 2B.

If Tejada plays the 2B we know he can, but has learned control of the strike zone, then he would be fine at 2B.

But if he is going to hit .210 with 150 Ks, then no, he shouldn’t start at 2B, no matter how good his glove is.

Castillo also had his highest BABIP by far in 7 years and well above the league average. That usually indicates a lot of luck. In fact, it was a level he hasn’t been close to approaching since 2004.

Also, Murphy won’t be hitting in the top of the order, if he is the opening 2B.

There seems to be a new breed of fan here that has forgotten or doesn’t know what the foundation of winning for ANY team is and that’s pitching and defense.

Much like a good actor makes everybody else’s performance around them batter an excellent fielding 2B when paired with Reyes will not only make Reyes better but make the very busy middle of the infield better in may other ways. It’s not just fielding ground balls, buddy.

If a middle infielder can make that type of contribution to the team than it’s not about his hitting. Tejada started hitting at the end of last season and I would like to see if he’s grown, is a bit stronger and can continue that improvement this spring training. It’s not only his hitting but he is SMART, he’s a thinking man’s baseball player. I can live with that in my lineup because a player like him, as long as he can hold his own w/the bat, will make my team a lot better than a better hitter who can’t field.

If he is adequate and hits then fine. But if he hits and doesn’t look too comfortable at 2nd then they will NOT make him the starter.

Castillo and Emaus will probably platoon until one of them wins the job with his bat!

It makes no sense to Hurt 5 guys to improve the bat of one! Better off to have the fielding so the Pitchers (who are shakey at best) don’t suffer and carry the weak bat. Even one as weak as Tejadas if thats what has to be.

Rafael Santana had no bat at all but he sure kept the 86 Pitchers out of extended innings.

liking Murphy, and hoping he wins the job (meaning earn it by beating out the other guys) is just fandom.

no one is saying he has the job guaranteed. Or that they think he should start if he does not prove in ST that he can play ML quality defense.

simply that he be given a chance along with the other guys (all of whom are limited in some way).

If anything, stating, as a fact, that he CAN’T play the position, without ever having seen him in action, is irrational. Especially when experienced BB men, that actually have their jobs tied into the teams success, think he has shown enough up to this point to be considered an option.

and the mets were killed last year (2nd half swoon) because the offense cratered, and having 2B be a black hole was a big part of that. Not the pitching, not lack of defense.

and this team, barring everyone having career years, can not really carry a guy in the batting order that can’t hit.

That means Murphy might start if he hits, but only if he also shows he has the range or better than Castillo had for the last 3 years!

And you won’t know that until he actually gets in a game!
Neither will Collins and no matter what he says now about anyone (including Ollie) it is nothing more than the cieling that player he mentioned can go. If Murphy fails as a solid 2B this spring or does not hit he will probably go back down to the minors until he can!

Or be traded to the AL as a DH!

Have you seen them? Did they come in a nice shiny box? Or did he get those tires in some footrace with an allstar who really doesn’t have to win races to stay a starter?

Cause I don’t care how good he hits, if he can’t get to as many grounders as Castillo and shows a limited range he won’t be playing 2nd base for very long. And since I don’t see him playing OF again especially with an OF consisting of Beltran, Bay and Pagan, he will be out of options other than sending him down to the minors to learn some EVEN NEWER position!

Unless you think the near ROY candidate Ike should be replaced by Murphy when that happens (which you probably do!)