16
2011
Did Collins Tip His Hand On Who His Second Baseman Will Be?
An article by Craig Lerner
A couple of weeks ago, in the post you can read below, I said Daniel Murphy was the early favorite for the second base job. Of course my comments were tongue in cheek and just making light of his early showing to Spring Training.
That said, a few hours ago during a televised press conference on SNY, I believe that Terry Collins may have tipped his hand regarding who his favorite is for the everyday second base job which will be contested this Spring.
It sounded to me like he gave a glowing endorsement for Daniel Murphy when Collins stated the following,
“I do believe today that second base has become an offensive position. We already know Daniel Murphy can hit in the major leagues, we don’t know that about Brad Emaus.”
Obviously, that completely rules out any chance Ruben Tejada may have had, rightfully so. Then, speaking specifically about Daniel Murphy he said,
“Murphy can win that second base job. He is doing everything in his power to get that job. He is one of the most determined young men I have ever worked with. He’s a ball player. I have a feeling that on the days he isn’t penciled into a spring training lineup, that he will plead with me to let him play second base at the minor league side of the complex.”
When asked specifically about whether he can turn a double play, Collins responded,
“That kid is highly motivated - he is getting better everyday. He’s very lucky to have guys like Chip Hale, Tim Teufel, Rafael Landestoy and Wally Backman around. There are plenty of people here who are working with Murph and teaching him how to turn a double play. That’s not even a concern right now.”
Things are looking up Murph, who I still believe will be the Opening Day second baseman for the New York Mets.
It must be the Luck O’ the Irish.
Original Post 2/1 11:00 PM
Daniel Murphy knows fully well that if he is going to be on the Mets Opening Day roster, his best chance to make it would be to win the second base job in spring training this year.
So far, as of Tuesday morning, consider Murphy the “early” favorite for the second base job, if only because he is the first Major Leaguer to arrive at Mets camp in Port St. Lucie since the gates at Digital Domain Park opened on January 24th.
Until yesterday, new manager Terry Collins has been holding down the fort at Mets camp with six minor leaguers including Tobi Stoner, Scott Moviel and Brad Holt, that is until Murphy showed up in his workout attire and with his second base glove, and proclaimed himself ready to go.
“I like to get down here and get settled in,” said Murphy to TCPalm.com. “There’s nobody out here so there are plenty of swings going around, plenty of groundballs to take. Today we had three or four position players and almost five or six coaches out there, so it is a great time to get a lot of one-on-one work with people who are familiar with the position you are trying to master.”
Murphy will be competing with Rule 5 Draftee Brad Emaus, minor leaguer Justin Turner, and veteran hold-over Luis Castillo for the everyday job.
Last week, Murphy spoke to Adam Rubin, and Murph sounded like a man on on a mission and someone who is absolutely dedicated and driven to win that job.
“I’ve been talking to Terry Collins, and he said I’m going to get as good as chance as anybody to win that job,” said Murphy. “First and foremost, it’s about doing something to help the ballclub win in whatever capacity that may be. He told me first and third, I need to be able to do that as well. But my goal is to play second for 162 games.”
Murphy will be participating in his third spring training with the Mets, each of them had him competing to win a job at three different positions; left field in 2009, first base in 2010, and second base in 2011. He’s confident that he can pull it off.
“It’s been a little bit easier the last two years because I’ve spent so much more time on the dirt, playing infield. I’ve played some second before in the minor leagues. I played in high school. So it’s not quite as foreign as I think left field was to me, and even probably first base.”
When last we saw Murphy, it was in 2009 when he played his first full season in the majors. In a season that started with a failed experiment in left field, and then being thrust at first base having never played the position, he still performed pretty good at the plate. In 155 games, Murphy posted a stat line of .266/.313/.427 in 556 plate appearances. He drove in 63 runs while while scoring 60, and collected 38 doubles and 12 home runs.
If he could build on those numbers and play an average second base, this could be a huge problem solved for the Mets as they look for some stability at that position.
I wish Daniel Murphy well on his quest to claim that second base job.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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|---|---|---|---|---|
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| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
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Daniel Murphy Is The Early Favorite For Second Base Job
…wait a second, you gave this post that title because he arrived early??
What’s your next one? Nick Evans Is Early Favorite To Be 4th Outfielder….then I go on to read he’s favorite because he took Terry Collins out to dinner?
What the hell is that all about?
Anyway…so a guy who couldn’t play LF suddenly is the favorite to be a starting 2B. A guy w/no range at 1B (despite what fannygraphz sez) now has the range and the physical ability to leap over sliding runners and make throws to 1B? And dive deep into holes, get up and fire to 1B on his knees?
No, not happening, I don’t care if he arrived during Christmas. It’s not happening – but he’ll help the bench siginificantly – he’ll make the team that way instead.
gotta agree with you there. misleading title. it makes it sound like it came from collins’ mouth.
I dunno. I thought it was funny. Well, the title made me smile at least.
First of all, it’s a blog and it’s my opinion. Second, the title is a play on words, EARLY because he’s there before anyone else. Third, if you had read the first two sentences it explained why I made the title, but it may have been difficult for you to grasp. Finally, stop speaking )or writing) in absolutes and acting like you are some kind of an authority on the matter. Your OPINIONS are yours, and my OPINIONS are mine. In the future I will try to dumb down my titles for you.
You must be new here. Bayonne’s opinions are mutually shared by all of us. He speaks for the collective minds of everyone here.
You have to understand that some people can’t grasp the idea of “a play with words”.
You have to understand that Bayonne doesnt like Daniel Murphy and will tear apart anyone who writes a possitive report. The article is great and as a Murphy surporter it it is written about the facts. Keep up the good work.
Jerry M,
You’re wrong. As I’ve said here many times in the past I like Murphy. He’s a class act and hard worker – we need more baseball players with his attitude.
He’s just not a second baseman. Not by a long shot. I think he WILL make the team but he’s a handyman backup with a nice bat.
He won’t be starting at 2B for any team anytime soon or in the distant future.
That’s just my call based on seeing what type of athlete he is.
You can’t see that – you’re imagining the lineup with him and blinded by that fantasy.
Well we will see in ST. who is the 2nd baseman. Bayonne you have your opinion and I have mine. Murphy will be the starting 2nd baseman and will hit 20 HRs and 90-100 RBIs for the season. Lets see who is right in April.
Bayonne, tend to asgree with your assessment & have no difficulty envisioning Murph as a platoon solution perhaps with turner or Emaus whomever shows best in FL(my $$$ is on Emaus as a pure guess/no options handed bak to Jays for 25K)
Why yes didn’t you know, Brad Holt is also the early favorite to be the 5th starter.
Good reply from an obstructionist, a guy with a cement head.
If it does happen — a big IF in your mind — will you apologize for your strident, irrational statements? Or will you start working David Wright over?
Bayonne, just like Ruben Tejada will? He was a sure thing in your mind originally. he he he
He IS a sure thing, he IS the best defensive 2B on this team (without seeing Emaus) and was with the team last year. The only time I swayed on my opinion of Tejada is if the thinking is to send him down to play SS if the thinking is Reyes won’t be back.
And then I changed back from that because he already knows how to play it and I see no need to send him down because if he’s your best second baseman in ST then he should make the team. If Reyes is dealt or for whatever reason Tejada can just slide right over to SS – he doesn’t need to go down to play it.
The only thing is I have no idea about Brad Emaus. I’ve never seen him. Can Tejada get cut? OF COURSE HE CAN, I’d be just as incoherent as YOU or even MORESO If I thought Tejada would flat out win it. I HOPE he does.
To say your 2B is ONLY coming from a pool of Emaus, Murphy, Castillo, & (Turner?) is irresponsible in my opinion. The only absoute i’m calling right now is Murphy. He WILL NOT be the starting 2B – for any team EVER.
Des, now go back to finding that link about Jerry Manuel catching a flight to sacramento to go do something that was an idea 4 years ago but you tried to pass off as current events just because a writer(s) from 2 years ago mentioned it. You even had him GETTING ON THE PLANE!!
You’re the one who has trouble with truth…on a daily basis
“He IS a sure thing”
So were a lot of guys. Generation K, anyone? Fernando Martinez? Rey Ordonez? Lasting Milledge? Scott Kazmir? The list goes on and on.
Ahhhh…i got your logic. Because some things don’t work out for some people then they dont’ work out for others. One is related to the other.
Got it.
Can you find me a list of ballplayers that DID work out for Mets?
No, I’m simply pointing out that there is no such thing as a sure thing. Tejada may go on to be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee for all we know.
Or, he may never exceed AAA performance.
Hyping a guy up doesn’t make him any better.
Yes he is a sure thing. He is a REAL 2B and the best defensive one we have right now.
The only REAL 2B we have in ST are Castillo & Tejada – yet both of them are not even being considered according to most everything you read – and the legions of wide-eyed zombies that follow their leader around.
The only other player I really view as another serious candidate is Emaus and even I’m going by what I hear and I’ve never seen him. And what if HE flops? Than what happens?
If Reese Havens is healthy, he may surprise a lot of people and push Murphy for the 2B job by July. It’s speculative, but so are most opinions on the Mets season.
If he is healthy yes…but I’ve never seen Reese Havens, ever. I”m only going by what i hear so I’m looking forward to seeing him in ST………if he’s healthy
sounds like someone is a little bitter because their man-crush isn’t gonna be in the majors this year.
$500.00 says he will be in the majors. Put your money where your mouth is..that’s if you have any.
$500.00 bet, i’m saying it in front of the entire MMO fanbase – i’m sticking my hand out now. You want that bet?
He will be in the majors.
Is there a time table? Because I don’t think anyone would be shocked if he were a September call up.
I think the more appropriate question would be why will Tejada be in the majors?
Good play?
Injury?
Trade?
Rosters expanded?
Ya, if Hu, Reyes, or the starting 2B gets hurt at some point, we may see Tejada.
If Reyes gets traded, we may see Tejada.
I think the majority of us here concede that Tejada will at some point be on the big club.
Here’s a thought I’ve always held useful for Met consideration for a consistant light hitting, low contact problem the team has has a succession of for sometime as Rey Ordonez, orig Milb career of Endy Chavez, Timo Perez, now Ruben Tejada as well as Hu all fit that very limited in effectiveness description would all benefit from the style & expertise of perennial ‘contact’ hitter, low strikeout artist, “el Gatito(the Kitten), Felix Milan who’s remarkable MLB #s of only 242 Ks in 5,791 abs was matched to the end of his playing days in Japan where he ended with his 52Ks in 1,129 abs slighthly more than 4% in both instances. Milan , as I recall was once employed as a roving hitting instructor for our Mets, a position in great demand, IMO, today.
In fact during Ordonez’ tenure in NY I once wrote to Steve Phillips extoling the potential positive effect Milan’s tutalage of Ordonez could bring. my response, was, I believe, form letter #543, thanking me for my interset and fandom of the Mets complete with what appeared to be a rubberstamp facsimile of Phillips’ signature.
While I’m unsure of “the Kitten’s” current situation, if healthy,available & amenable I’d certainly support his employment back in his old capacity, what say any of u?
Donal, Maybe you should show your kindness and not take what someone can’t afford.
Murphy is a hack and has no business being on the team this season unless we get hit with injuries. He’s a classic tweener. There’s no room on the bench for him with Paulino, Harris, Hairston, Hu and Evans. The latter two are out of options and will make the team. Emaus is the second baseman. I’d bet anything that this is how spring training plays out.
Did Bayonne write the script for you? LOL
Hes a hack. Stop using words that you think are called for. Bayonne and you are one of a kind. Ready to throw out vile things against a player. Murphy has more fans then you think and will be the 2nd baseman this year. Your word will be worth very little when he wins the spot.
[...] http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/02/daniel-murphy-is-the-early-favorite-for-second-base-job.html [...]
Murphy can’t field, can’t run, has no position, and little power. Other than that he’s pretty good. Murphy stinks, period! Can’t understand the love for him at all.
true enough, his offensive numbers have not been all that great. i think part of the excitement about him is that he looks like a hitter.
Compare his first year and Ike’s first year. It might surprise you. Look at the triples, something of value in CitiField.
it wont suprise me . like i said, his offensive numbers havent been that good. but yunno, if he can play second and hit a little better he might be ok.
i dont need to look at triples, they are factored into the OPS, which is not that good. but he was decent the year before, so if he can get back to where he was before, he would be a valuable contributor at 2nd.
Martin triples are important as a measure of quickness and speed. He can scoot. Not all of our players can. It’s important in a big ballpark with gaps that favor the swift of foot.
quickness is nice but getting on base is what matters. speed is actualy of little value compared to the ability to not make outs.
Are you a fiction writer? LOL
Weird to see so many of you writing Murphy off when Collins and Alderson both consider him to most likely win the job. Justin Turner and Ruben Tejada have virtually no chance and neither will even make the team. Emaus may get a platoon split in a best case scenario which would still give the left handed Murphy the majority of playing time.
I don’t know if Murphy will be the starting second baseman, but I do know that there’s no accounting or explanation for idiots.
Murphy would have a great shot at making the team, even if someone else earns the starting 2B job.
I would much rather see him on the bench than harris. Harris stinks, and with Hairston on the team, there is no need for him to play CF. and considering he pretty much stinks, I would rather have Murphys bat on the bench.
Absolutely,
I can most definitely envision Murphy as part of a winning team – but on the bench and filling in, getting 200 or so ABs. I think he will make the team
He’s just not a starting second baseman for a major league baseball team. That’s a fantasy.
How many more times are you Bayonne going to spout that Murphy will not be the 2nd baseman. You said it enough now give it up.
I like Murphy. He’s a lunch pail guy and I agree we need him on the team. Will he succeed at second? Don’t know that yet but he does have a nice bat and some of those doubles he hit in his rookie year can turn into dingers.
Tejada and players like him are a dime a dozen. We couldn’t afford to have his incredibly light bat in the lineup. You can have a pitcher type hitter batting in front of the pitcher – that gives you two automatic outs in a row and it makes no sense. His bat hurt us last year.
Murphy is also insurance for first base. Ike Davis had a very uneven year at the plate. He hit cleanup for a good portion of the season and yet his RBI total was pretty low. At times, you could see plenty of daylight between his bat and the ball. He needs to be more consistant before we automatically give him first base.
If Ike gets off to a slow start, Murphy may be the answer back at first.
tlagee,
The Mets will not go back to Murphy at 1B. Don’t understand the infatuation with this part time player. With a name like Agee you should show a little more experience when you talk about a fantastic rookie season Ike Davis had. It certainly looks like a bright future for that kid. Everybody you see on TV talking about him calls him a “ballplayer” real deal.
All this talk about Murphy shows just how much “fans” (and yes, I’m saying fans) can cloud their judgement just because of an affinity for a player.
Same could be said of me with Tejada, I understand that. But it’s not the first time weak hitters (SO FAR – because he’s still a rookie) can be part of a winning unit as long as you have good bats elsewhere. Don’t think I have to explain that to Mets fans who understand how baseball works. Seems a lot of people are too busy reading about numbers and alleged new ideas on how to look at them and forgetting a lot more than that is needed when trying to create a winning team.
Bayonne –
Mate, this is what makes these kinds of discussions good. I like Ike. I think he has potential and is a great fielder. There are a few things with his offensive that he needs to improve on – and if he does he can be the Mets first baseman for the next ten years.
However, 138 K’s with only 72 rbi in over 500 at bats – the majority in the cleanup slot – is not going to cut it at an offensive postion. And forget the stats – I saw it with my own eyes.
Hopefully he can correct his problems – but if he can’t we have Murphy who can step in. You don’t care for Murphy which is fine – I think he has Kevin McReynolds type offensive abilities. I could be wrong – let’s hope he doens’t have Mcreynold’s attitude.
As far a Tejada goes – If you had a powerful lineup you can make an argument for a one dimentional defensive player. I personally don’t care for giving up a bat in the lineup which is why I was never a fan of Rey (Harpo) ordonez.
Let’s see how Murphy does before we decide he can’t do it.
if you notice in the quotes, Murphy did play 2B in the past. So he obviously already had instruction and practice as to how the position is played. Unlike LF, where he admitted he had never played before getting sent out there on the mets.
Bayonne why are you so against Murphy playing second base? Do you realize how much more valuable a chip he becomes with his offense at 2B? You seem to think that because he never played the position he can never learn. Look at Biggio? He became a hall of famer after they switched him from catcher to 2B.
Such a fine lad, young Murphy is. He has his mother’s heart and his father’s fighting spirit. Oh Danny boy…
Hodges14, As long as we’re getting silly, I’ll add the gaelic of Daniel’s ancestors:
Go maire tú an lá, Daniel! ….(Congratulations, Daniel!)
Sláinte …. (Health)
Sin sin, níl aon scéal eile agam …. (That’s all, I don’t have any other story!
Hey, Hodges14, do you remember the game when Gil hit a grand slam off Vinegar Bend Mizell to win the game in Brooklyn against the Cards? It was a crazy game that I saw on TV (probably Ch. 9 at the time).
I hope you are right Craig. It does seem that Terry Collins likes Murphy a lot. I perdict that if Murphy plays 2nd base every day he will hit 20+ HRs and 90 RBIs.He worked in the offeason when injured with weights on his upper body. He will be 26 on April 1st a time when players are in their prime.He hit 4 HRs in a month at winter ball and drove in 22RBIs in that month.Teery comments mean a lot for a player like him. What a team we will have this year.
murphy was not actually a good major league hitter, althought he might be eventually, esp at 2b. 313 is a horrific OBP
Murphy hit his best while he wasn’t being selective, he hit his worst when he was. He never swung 2-0 or 3-0 and overall was out thought (or probably was over thinking) while out there.
He’s not going to win a batting title or MVP. He’s not that kind of a player, but I believe that he can be part of a decent functioning line up.
2009 he really didn’t have any sort of a credible line up around him. Castillo, Cora, Sullivan, Church, Santos. Their wasn’t much around him. Even the two guys who were around most of the year missed time too. Pagan and Wright.
If he were to be in a line up 115 games with Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Beltran, Davis, Bay, Murphy, Thole he will probably have 50 extra base hits.
The question with him is whether he can fully defend 2B or at the very least 90% of 2B. Until he proves that, his best usage at 2B will come with Young and Santana on the mound and a RHP going against us. Those opportunities won’t be very plentiful until July at best.
Prove it with the glove, get a chance to prove it with the bat. Same as every other lower ceiling young prospect.
one thing in his favor at 2B (or whoever wins the job) is being flanked on both sides by guys with Plus range. Can’t possibly hurt him.
Murphy has a good range. If you remember when he played 1st base he went into Castillos area at 2nd base and had to be told to cut back.
He did show some range going to his right. I wonder how accurate he will be going up the middle away from 1st and turning to throw back to 1st?
Range is totally different at the corners than up the middle.
The difference is the number of steps you can take, field a ball that stays down, maintain your balance, stop, pivot, throw.
Very different actions required.
I’m rooting for him but I’m remaining realistic too.
I’m just anxious to see him in action. After so many words and opinions on the topic, soon the world will know.
martin, Daniel Murphy’s career OBP is .331.
which is not very good.
Collins is wrong,
I don’t care if he says 2B is more of offensive position today if you can’t play good defense, and you’re name is not Chase Utley on a team as stacked as the Phillies…….. you’re not gonna win.
How many times you see sloppy defensive innings completely destroy the moral of a team and cost you a game.
Reyes has a great arm and quick transfer but he’s not anything fantastic as a fielder, pair him with a sub par fielding second baseman and this team is gonna suffer greatly up the middle…and result in more loses and big innings for other teams…… no matter how any of our second basemen hit.
As for Murphy, I think Collins means it when he give allegedly glowing reviews but it’s more of him being cordial about Murphy to the press. No way can this man be a starting second baseman. This team needs DEFENSE. Defense is what wins.
If this is the new organizational philosophy than dark days are ahead. I don’t think a guy like Tom Seaver would appreciate this type of philosophy at all…nor should Johan Santana.
thats objectively incorrect.
If defense is what wins, the Padres should have at LEAST won the wild card, having the best in the league (and also gave up the fewest runs), no? oh wait they scored 9 more runs than the Mets.
Well,
Don’t know what the Padres’ problem was but you win with pitching and defense. The oldest saying in baseball holds true today.
the Padres’ problem was they didn’t hit.
well, more accurately, you win by outscoring the other team. you can do that lots of ways, including pitching and hitting.
There you go again Bayonne. Collins was just trying to be nice to Murphy for the press. The man believes in Murphy and wants him at second base.But you have you own opinions about Murphy and you cant see that. Give it up Murphy will be the 2nd baseman.
At this point in early Spring Training, the Fat Lady has sung.
And the winner is: Daniel Murphy.
Waiting in the wings is: Reese Havens.
I really hope Murphy does get the second base job…Not so much because I think he will be a good 2nd baseman but mostly to see how quickly the Murphy fan club (who has tried to make him the best option for every hole this team has had over the past 2 years) turns on him when a slow rolling grounder goes between his legs, or a DP is botched allowing a run to score in a close game against the Phillies!
Cause when they start to complain it will be entertaining to see them have to deal with all their previous statements of how GREAT Murphy is going to be as our 2B!
lol
Metsie then why does Collins like him so much?
Ok can you post the quote that said Collins liked him?
Cause he never said he liked him and didn’t say he was the favorite, all he said is that 2B’s are more and more becoming offensive and Murphy is known for his hitting.
That doesn’t mean he LIKES murphy!
And it doesn’t mean he thinks he is good enough to play second base!
Only the Murphy fan club takes such great leaps of assumption from that!
Who said he was going to be great? I think most of us will be glad with “adequate” fielding and good hitting.
that’s the problem with a lot of fans. they want someone great at every position all the time. no one has someone great at every position. we have someone great at more positions than a lot of teams in the league. we just need Murphy/Emaus to be average.
Your assuming he will be adequate fielding…Castillo was adequate too look where it got him!
Castillo had a great career. His tires have now come off. What point are you making?
Well Castillo HAD Tires to lose! Does Murphy?
Have you seen them? Did they come in a nice shiny box? Or did he get those tires in some footrace with an allstar who really doesn’t have to win races to stay a starter?
Cause I don’t care how good he hits, if he can’t get to as many grounders as Castillo and shows a limited range he won’t be playing 2nd base for very long. And since I don’t see him playing OF again especially with an OF consisting of Beltran, Bay and Pagan, he will be out of options other than sending him down to the minors to learn some EVEN NEWER position!
Unless you think the near ROY candidate Ike should be replaced by Murphy when that happens (which you probably do!)
No, Castillo has not been adequate the last few years. He can’t cover the position.
Exactly Donal he was the starter anyway because he hit better than Tejada.
He DID hit two years ago! And he was still on his way out for lack of range.
That means Murphy might start if he hits, but only if he also shows he has the range or better than Castillo had for the last 3 years!
And you won’t know that until he actually gets in a game!
Neither will Collins and no matter what he says now about anyone (including Ollie) it is nothing more than the cieling that player he mentioned can go. If Murphy fails as a solid 2B this spring or does not hit he will probably go back down to the minors until he can!
Or be traded to the AL as a DH!
he got on base 2 years ago. He still had zero power, and little passing for production.
Castillo had 16 extra base hits in 2009. Murphy had almost that many Home Runs. He had 54 XBH all together. His slugging was better.
Castillo also had his highest BABIP by far in 7 years and well above the league average. That usually indicates a lot of luck. In fact, it was a level he hasn’t been close to approaching since 2004.
Also, Murphy won’t be hitting in the top of the order, if he is the opening 2B.
Met fans are gonna get what they ask for and you know what? It will be MORE losing. We have a bunch of blind fools here who don’t care to learn from the past.
Best middle of the infield Mets can do is hope for Tejada to hit a little better and pair him up with Reyes. I don’t care if he’s not being mentioned – that’s the best Mets middle infield we have.
You want to win games? With our lineup? And especially with our lack of pitching? You want to pair Reyes with Tejada. an excellent fielding 2B will also improve the play of our SS.
The Mets are in trouble if they sacrifice defense for a little extra hitting. Especially with the guys we have (excluding Havens who i have not seen yet)
You want rely on your dreams of a hitting 2B and disregard defense..go right ahead and you know what you’re gonna get? Sloppy play, balls thrown around resulting in big innings for the opposition..and low moral. Sloppy defensive innings are usually the tell tale sign a team is not good. Good teams, WINNING teams don’t have many of those because they have good defense.
all the fans are asking for is all the options to get a shot at the job. And whoever shows they are most competent (hitting and fielding) will win the job. That’s it.
liking Murphy, and hoping he wins the job (meaning earn it by beating out the other guys) is just fandom.
no one is saying he has the job guaranteed. Or that they think he should start if he does not prove in ST that he can play ML quality defense.
simply that he be given a chance along with the other guys (all of whom are limited in some way).
If anything, stating, as a fact, that he CAN’T play the position, without ever having seen him in action, is irrational. Especially when experienced BB men, that actually have their jobs tied into the teams success, think he has shown enough up to this point to be considered an option.
and the mets were killed last year (2nd half swoon) because the offense cratered, and having 2B be a black hole was a big part of that. Not the pitching, not lack of defense.
and this team, barring everyone having career years, can not really carry a guy in the batting order that can’t hit.
Teams have one before with weak hitters at important positions. That’s nothing new.
There seems to be a new breed of fan here that has forgotten or doesn’t know what the foundation of winning for ANY team is and that’s pitching and defense.
Much like a good actor makes everybody else’s performance around them batter an excellent fielding 2B when paired with Reyes will not only make Reyes better but make the very busy middle of the infield better in may other ways. It’s not just fielding ground balls, buddy.
If a middle infielder can make that type of contribution to the team than it’s not about his hitting. Tejada started hitting at the end of last season and I would like to see if he’s grown, is a bit stronger and can continue that improvement this spring training. It’s not only his hitting but he is SMART, he’s a thinking man’s baseball player. I can live with that in my lineup because a player like him, as long as he can hold his own w/the bat, will make my team a lot better than a better hitter who can’t field.
Why do we have to accept one weak hitter? Why can’t we have adequate hitting 1-8? I don’t understand why we can’t focus on the THREE (not two, three) foundations of a good team. Why is it OK to accept Tejada being unable to hit a high fast ball, but wrong to accept Murphy can’t make a WebGem?
If Murphy proves adequate at 2B (ie, league median) and hits like we’ve seen him, then he would be fine at 2B.
If Tejada plays the 2B we know he can, but has learned control of the strike zone, then he would be fine at 2B.
But if he is going to hit .210 with 150 Ks, then no, he shouldn’t start at 2B, no matter how good his glove is.
Just playing devils advocate here…
why settle for a weak hitter as opposed to a weak batter?
Well because a batter has an affect on only 3 guys on the field, A bad fielder (especially a 2B) has a bad affect on 7! SS, 1B and all your starters!
A bad batter can at best affect 3 guys on base and the guy who hits behind him!
A batter has more influence on the game than a fielder. A fielder can only affect the game when the ball comes to him. And even that still requires other uncontrolable variables.
Remember, the pitcher/batter conflict is the central part of the game. everything else revolves around that.
So a fielder only affects the game when the ball comes to him? U mean like when Ruben Tejada had the wherewithall to call for a daylight play w/runner on 2B and K-Rod on the mound.
The 2B called for that play, it worked and the game was over.
Or when a smart infielder help redirects the outfielder to throw out a trailing runner on base instead of throw to plate?
Or when Derek Jeter made that now famous cutoff running towards 1B dugout, intercepted bad throw and relayed to plate for an out?
These debates have become boring and laborious now because I feel like I’m teaching baseball 101 to a new wave of fantasy people who have no respect or desire to learn what the game is really about and what it takes to win. Instead they base their knowledge (or lack of) on a misleading belief of numbers.
Remember, the pitcher/batter conflict is the central part of the game.
Right and the pitcher will FAIL if there is no one to catch the ball when it is hit!
he sure can’t field it on his own!
Try looking at it this way…
Take all the fielders off the field.
Now it’s one on one Pitcher as batter like you said.
Who is going to win the conflict you think is important?
I know you stratomatic stats only guys place so much importance on hitting but the truth is you don’t get to hit Unless you can get the other side out!
And bad fielding is a great way to never get that other side out!
Doesn’t matter how many hitters you have in your lineup if your second baseman can’t catch the ball and the other side bats around 10 times!
So, Bayonne, you think calling a daylight play on a game you didn’t specify, makes up for not being able to hit a high fastball?
“Or when Derek Jeter made that now famous cutoff running towards 1B dugout, intercepted bad throw and relayed to plate for an out?”
GIAMBI WAS SAFE! Besides, that play had more to do with him not sliding than Flatfoot being a great short stop.
“These debates have become boring and laborious now”
Hey, if you insist on not learning…
“feel like I’m teaching baseball 101 to a new wave of fantasy people ”
Fantasy people? This is just went down a road I am not following.
“who have no respect or desire to learn what the game is really about ”
How do you get that? Because they look at things different than you? Because they challenge traditional assumptions?
YOU TEACH KIDS TO SWING A BAT! You do not play in the majors! You do not scout for major league teams. You do not analyze for any major media sources.
“Instead they base their knowledge (or lack of) on a misleading belief of numbers.”
Ya, because I haven’t lived and died with this team for 30 years. Because I didn’t spend every night of my childhood dreaming of playing in the World Series. Because the times I’ve been closest to my dad haven’t been while watching Met games. Because I don’t bore my girlfriend to death complaining about baseball.
Has it occurred to you that maybe people dedicate enough time to learn and/or develop this complex formulas if they didn’t love baseball and want to learn as much as possible about the game? Part of it is about making the game more accessible to everyone.
“Right and the pitcher will FAIL if there is no one to catch the ball when it is hit!
he sure can’t field it on his own!
Try looking at it this way…
Take all the fielders off the field.
Now it’s one on one Pitcher as batter like you said.”
Then we’re not playing baseball, we’re having batting practice.
Eaxactly! which is the same exact thing as fielding a bunch of guys who can’t field the ball….BATTING PRACTICE!
Putting a cardboard cutout in the field because he hits a little better is as good as not having anyone to catch the ball at all!
BATTING PRACTICE!
And there are no outs in batting practice which makes whatever you think your going to get out his better hitting irrelevant because he can’t get off the field to get to the batters box!
Thank you for making my point!
What is it with some poeple and attacking arguments no one has made?
And if Murphy cannot field at an acceptable Major League level, then that should be held against him. Nobody has said we just want a body out at 2B. Everyone here agrees that there should be a standard to field the position. The disagreement seems to be just what that standard should be.
I say, if Murphy can prove to be a league average secondbaseman (which major league scouts are saying he can), his offense will make him the best option. If they want to use Hu or Emaus as a late inning defensive replacement or a pinch runner, I’m fine with that.
If Murphy cannot show adequate defense, then they weigh their other options.
To think all this is only to discuss why some think Murphy is better than Tejada or vice versa.
Wow…
It’s very simple why some think Murphy is better.
Because fielding isn’t important to the guys who ;like Murphy…All they know is hitting stats becasuse they don’t know about fielding, Beane hasn’t written a book on that aspect of baseball yet!
Beane hasn’t written any book yet.
you only do youself a disservice to suggest ppl that like murphy do so because of anything to do with beane.
I thought most of the fan base was on Murphy after his handful of highlight reel errors in LF when almost no other Organization in baseball asks their prospects to go from infield to outfield WHILE trying to break into the Major Leagues AS A PLAN. I wouldn’t count on him being able to play 2B for even one game but after spending 45 M over 7 years to get s**t play out of that position I’m perfectly willing to let him prove he’s not capable of doing it. If he surprises that would be great, if he doesn’t what did it cost.
It’s not like we are counting on him, and tying up a sizeable chunk of payroll to do so.
Next up will be Wilmer Flores in a couple of years asked to break in to the Majors AND learn a new position at the same time.
He deserves every shot to try to win his way into the 2B position.
But it is going to take more than just hitting alone.
If he shows no range then there goes the pitching and defense plan Sandy seems to say he thought was important. How good will Young, Capuano, Pelfrey, Niese and Dickey be if they are constantly pitching extended innings because a routine grounder was out of reach of a rangeless Murphy?
If he is adequate and hits then fine. But if he hits and doesn’t look too comfortable at 2nd then they will NOT make him the starter.
Castillo and Emaus will probably platoon until one of them wins the job with his bat!
It makes no sense to Hurt 5 guys to improve the bat of one! Better off to have the fielding so the Pitchers (who are shakey at best) don’t suffer and carry the weak bat. Even one as weak as Tejadas if thats what has to be.
Rafael Santana had no bat at all but he sure kept the 86 Pitchers out of extended innings.
As far as I see it no one has won the 2b job yet. That will start happening over the next 6 weeks or so.
I know one thing the Mets got next to nothing out of 2b last year and they can’t go into another year replicating the production output that was generated last year out of 2b.
2010 Mets production out of 2b
.226/BA – 16th in the NL
.285/SLG – 16th in the NL
.307/OBP – 14th (Tied with Cubs) in the NL (Rockies .306 are 16th)
1/HR – 16th in the NL
48/RBI – 13th in the NL
61/R – 16th in the NL
23/2B – 16th in the NL
130/H – 16th in the NL
The Mets can’t go through another year with such poor production out of 2b.
The link just in case.
baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats_lg.cgi?full=1¶ms=defp|as%202B|NL|2010|bat|AB|