Could Albert Pujols Wind Up On The Phillies?

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• Donal February 9, 2011 at 12:32 pm

  So, trade the best hitter in the game for a strike out machine that benefits from a bandbox home field? And have the privalege of over paying him?

  Makes perfect sense for the Cardinals.
  • Nester February 9, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    You are wrong, dead wrong. Bandbox has nothing to do with Howard’s power.

    Ryan Howard career splits Home: 124 HR, Road 129 HR.

    Why say something so ridiculous without researching it first?
    • Jc February 9, 2011 at 1:59 pm

      Ok listen to yourselves then listen to the baseball experts. No one thinks the Cards will let him go and trade him and if they do doesn’t it make sense they contact the Yankees about Tex who is a better defender, better all around hitter and someone who will age better than Ryan Howard who’s body will not allow him to be a star for many more than 3 years. When Ryan signed his deal people around baseball were screaming that he was way overpaid and that his contract will be an albatross year 3. His body is already showing signs of wear and tear. I think the Cards realize 5 years of Albert at 30 million is better than 5 years of Howard at 25. Look at Ryan’s stats last year. He played 17 games less than the year before, hit only 31 homers down from 45 the year before, 108 rbi’s down from 141 the year before. No way he gets healthier as he gets older. Albert on the other hand is the same age SO only 76 times last year, hit 42 homers, played almost every game, his body his that of a football tailback than a lineman, is way more clutch, a lot harder to get out, I can go on and on. He is the best hitter of our generation. If the Cards deal him its for a young 1st base talent and a ton of prospects to rebuild with not a 31 year old 1st baseman who’s body is on the decline.
    • Donal February 9, 2011 at 2:00 pm

      He is still a swinging machine and isn’t nearly half the overall player Pujols is but is going to make more than 80% of his salary. Why exactly does this work for the Cardinals? If salary is an issue, why pay comparable money to a lesser player who is the same age?

      Does saving $5 million a year justify the down grade at 1B?
  • happy little mets fans February 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Why do you have to prove over and over again little metsie donal how little you know about baseball. If you really think Ryan Howard’s number are derived because of CBP than you are either blind or you just are without any knowledge.
  • vinnie papandrea February 10, 2011 at 10:56 am

    I agree. How does this make sense. Let me see There the same age , play the same position, pay them the same and we’ll give you the best player in the game and you’ll give us a guy who only hits HR’s and doesn’t even start to hit them until August. Sounds like a deal to me
• Osse Jorosco February 9, 2011 at 12:39 pm

  Completely plausible.
• Nester February 9, 2011 at 12:48 pm

  I would hate to see this happen, but I must admit few teams or scenarios match up as well as what you have presented here.
  • any February 9, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    except if they are going to trade Pujols, they may prefer to save the massive payroll hit for other uses. Unless you think they want to pay 40% of payroll to Holliday and Howard for the next 6 years.
    • Berbalerbs February 9, 2011 at 12:58 pm

      Seriously, I don’t think the Cardinals plan B is a “much less effective, slightly less expensive version of Albert” if they can’t re-sign him.
• any February 9, 2011 at 12:54 pm

  Howard’s 5 year deal doesn’t kick in until after this season. although maybe you were just talking about starting in 2012 for both of them.

  does not seem to make that much sense for St. Louis. 5mill/year is not that enough money (relative to their payrolls) to get rid of an Icon for a guy that is declining. And Pujols is a way better athlete.
  • KP February 9, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    isn’t it more than just 5 mil a year because you have 60 left with the two year difference. So its an 85 mil saving that could net you another player for say 7 and 17 a year plus getting some players. I am a huge Mets fan, but i can see why this would work on both ends…plus isn’t Howard loved by St. Louis being from that area?

    I think it doesn’t make sense from the viewpoint that as a fan of baseball I dont want to see an icon such as Pujols end up anywhere else.
    • any February 9, 2011 at 1:30 pm

      it is ~5mill/year for the next 6 (including 2011). Beyond that, it would be 30mill – whatever they paid Howards replacement in years 6-7. 7-8. Long time from now!
  • Nester February 9, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    What would the alternative be for St. Louis? Two draft picks at the end of the season? How else can they replace Pujols 35 HR and 120 RBI?
    • any February 9, 2011 at 1:33 pm

      alternatives? Try to win the division and get back to the WS in 2011, before they lose Pujols and Carpenter, take the 2 picks, and use the freed up $$ to play in the FA market next off season.

      Or, trade him elsewhere (does he have any no trade protection?) and try to get real talent back.

      and don’t forget, he only said no negotiations during the season. Another options is just let him play out, then try to sign him at year end. Now or later, it is going to take a full market rate offer.
• Berbalerbs February 9, 2011 at 12:56 pm

  No disrespect man…I know this is the offseason and honestly, writing about ANYTHING other than Bernie Madoff is welcome, but COME ON, DUDE.

  So the Phillies sign Ryan Howard and, I guess, immediately have buyer’s remorse, because maybe they took a look and realized that Ryan is on an admittedly slow, but real decline (2010 was his lowest HR, RBI, OPS and WAR since ’06) and think, “Hey I know! Let’s trade him for THE BEST BASEBALL PLAYER CURRENTLY PLAYING THE SPORT OF BASEBALL.”

  Meanwhile, the Cardinals are thinking “well yea, Albert’s the face of our franchise, one of the few superstars to make it through the Steroid Era scandals unscathed, and also he is THE BEST BASEBALL PLAYER CURRENTLY PLAYING THE SPORT OF BASEBALL, buuuuuut I bet if we ROYALLY piss off our fanbase and downgrade CONSIDERABLY at 1B, we could save like, $5 mil a year. That might be enough to re-sign Eckstein! Win-win!”

  Unless by “kick in an extra prospect or two to make it work” you meant “throw in Roy Halladay and pay his salary.” Because if you meant that, then yea, I could see the Cards doing this.

  (again, sorry for the overboard snark. it’s just…y’know…COME ON MAN.)
• Mr North Jersey February 9, 2011 at 12:59 pm

  tell me again why for a differnce of $5M would the cards trade their franchise player again?
  • Nester February 9, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Maybe you’ve been out of the loop, but the Cardinals shot there load on Matt Holliday and dont want to go more than 5 years on Pujols. The problem in not the 30 million, the problem is they are offering 5 and Pujols wants 7-8.
    • Mr North Jersey February 9, 2011 at 1:17 pm

      Ahh, so that’s the problem? Thanks for expanding.
    • Donal February 9, 2011 at 2:08 pm

      They will still be committed to Howard until 2017. It’s comparable money at 1 less year for half the player. Not to mention the PR damage.
• srt February 9, 2011 at 1:06 pm

  Um…this is a proposal put forth by Philly fans – only?
  Has anyone in the business speculated about this yet or did the fans come up with this all on their own?

  Anyone else starting to get the feeling the Phils are becoming the Yanks of the NL?
• 8at 6mets February 9, 2011 at 1:08 pm

  Joe D, you missed ONE very important fact: Pujols has already said that he will veto ANY trade. He is 10 and 5 already so he has that right. Would he change his mind and approve a trade to a team with a park where he could hit 60 homers every year? Maybe. But I’d put those odds at about 1,000,000 to 1. Pujols is loyal and I don’t see him treating the fans in St Louis like that by saying he’ll veto any trade and then reversing course. He knows he’s going to get paid regardless of whether it’s by the Cardinals or anyone else. He has a chance to win in St Louis this year and I think, if this is indeed the end of the line there, that he would like to give the fans what they pay to see: Albert Pujols leading the Cardinals into the playoffs. If he ends up a Phillie, it would be as a F/A meaning the Phillies would have to move Howard in a trade, which of course could still be the Cardinals. But this isn’t happening now or during the 2011 season.
  • Seligman February 9, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    You are also forgetting that history shows that veto power is more of a negotiating ploy than an obstacle to a trade. Unless the player has a real aversion to playing for the new team, the trades usually get done at better than half the time. So while it is an obstacle, the odds are not a million to one as you say. It’s 50/50.
    • t agee February 9, 2011 at 2:06 pm

      6/180 by opening day. Stays with the Cards.
      • any February 9, 2011 at 2:43 pm

        probably best all around, it is nice to see a top talent stay with 1 team, especially when it isn’t one of the real big market/payroll ones (not that the Cards are a low budget operation).

        and certainly better than every top guy ending up on the yankees or red sox!
• Hodges14 February 9, 2011 at 1:10 pm

  There is no way this could happen. First of all Ryan Howard is as beloved in Philly and a fan favorite as much as Puols is in St. Louis. Second, the Phillies dont even need Pujols, why would they do it? Also why do you cont the Mets out? We could offer them Ike Davis plus either Niese or Pelfrey plus a top prospect like Duda. The Mets will have something to talk about besides Madoff and the cardinals get a promissing first baseman, a numver two pitcher and depth in the minors.
  • Vinny B February 9, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    No way i would do that.

    Pujols is going to be 31 this season and your going to have to sign him to what? a seven year contract? And if Jayson Werth can get 126 million imagine how much Pujols will get?

    We already have a good, young, cheap 1st baseman anyway…..Pujols isn’t going to hit .330 and hit 40 home runs forever, he will slow down. It’s just a matter of time. And then you would have to pay a TON of money for a an average 1st baseman, while davis would be in the prime of his career, hitting 30 Home runs a season and would be way cheaper.
    • happy little mets fans February 9, 2011 at 1:52 pm

      Typical little metsie,,,, you think your perrennial failure of a team is too good for the best player in the game. Another stroke of brilliance by a little metsie. Poor Bayonne. how can you root for your metsies when you are surrounded by this most pathetic fan base in the world?
  • kevin February 9, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Umm, every team in baseball could use Pujols, are you serious?
    • t agee February 9, 2011 at 2:02 pm

      Vinny’s right. Pujols’s 30M will be in decline or on the DL while Ike’s 1M will be hitting .290 30 HR’s and 115 RBI while playing outstanding defense.

      It’s time for us to stop shooting ourselves in the foot by collecting as many soon to be in decline or injured former All Stars as possible and start developing some of them ourselves.
  • any February 9, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    actually the fans down here (philly) would love this deal. They have boo’d howard at times, and already started turning on him when he signed the extension (though they really should have turned the anger on Amaro for giving it to him!)
• The Coop February 9, 2011 at 1:19 pm

  Do you guys even remember that Ryan Howard signed a ridiculous extension last year, 5 yr/$125mm – and his contract wasn’t even UP last year – he’s good till 2017, I want to say. Unless the Phillies move to the AL and they need a DH, I don’t see Pujols going to them, sorry.
  • Berbalerbs February 9, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Yea, this all was kinda confusing. These two sentences are literally NEXT to each other in the post:
    “With the Yankees, Angels and Red Sox seemingly set at first base the Cardinals will have a tough time finding a suitable team to negotiate a trade with.”

    Followed immediately by:

    “The Phillies actually match up quite well.”

    Because…they’re…not set at 1B?
    • any February 9, 2011 at 1:40 pm

      I see the yankees and Red Sox set at 1B with guys they aren’t trading to St. Louis, but who is playing 1B for the Angels that can’t be moved for Pujols?
      • francis February 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm

        It would be kendry morales that would move.
        • any February 9, 2011 at 2:46 pm

          that’s who I thought they had (at least it was the last one I knew!). If anything, trading for him would make more sense for the Cards.
• kevin February 9, 2011 at 1:25 pm

  Sign Reyes to an extension now and Wright too for that matter. I hope these new people in charge are not gonna put us in the same situation the cardinals are in with the face of their franchise.
  • Berbalerbs February 9, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    I’d say the Pujols situation is a little unique. It’s rare to have a player is objectively the best position player in the sport at a given time, so his asking price is as historic as his numbers have been thus far…

    Wright and Reyes are stars, no doubt, but if either of them said they were looking for $30 mil/year, I think every GM in MLB would laugh at them.
    • kevin February 9, 2011 at 1:40 pm

      Oh I totally agree. I’m not looking for the Mets to talk numbers like that for either of them. I’d go $15MM per for Reyes and $20MM per for Wright. I just dont want to see either of them walk or get traded when the time comes. It kind of sucks that our only lifelong Met in franchise history is Eddie Kranepool, the epitomy for mediocrity and suckitude.
      • any February 9, 2011 at 1:44 pm

        I agree that they should be trying to extend Reyes in ST, but no reason to deal with Wright now. With options, he is under team control through 2013, so wait 1-2 years.
• Jc February 9, 2011 at 2:09 pm

  Look at the Yankees folks. Mark Teixeira is younger than both Howard and Albert. Is a GG winner. Better all around hitter than Howard, is paid 2.5 million less, strikes out less, plays every day, his body will age much better than Ryan’s, and of all the teams talking who is more apt to want to make a huge splash at the trade deadline. Imagine Albert in that lineup in that stadium, with that team, in NY City. He would instantly make them the favorite out of the AL and maybe the whole thing. They could offer the Cards Tex and Joba for Albert and we all know Dave Duncan will have Joba into a Cy Young candidate year 1.
  • t agee February 9, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    That makes a lot more sense than a Pujols/Howard swap, of course A Gon’s not signed beyond this year and that could get Boston thinking….
    • any February 9, 2011 at 2:49 pm

      except will A Gon sign with them for an amount that makes it worth downgrading from Pujols?
  • Berbalerbs February 9, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Now, see, THAT sounds a lot more likely than the Phillies. Well said, JC.
    • any February 9, 2011 at 3:30 pm

      without checking, odds are that Teix has a NTC too, and who knows if he signs up for that deal!
• Todd W. February 9, 2011 at 2:30 pm

  I am not sure this has been posted yet but this is the biggest fabricated story I have ever read. You people can’t be serious.
  • srt February 9, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    I asked the question above concerning where this came from.
    I think it started with the Phillie fans and it’s been just the Phillie fans speculating.
    • any February 9, 2011 at 2:50 pm

      well, this time of year, there is so little “real” going on, that anything interesting to discuss is a bonus!
      • Todd W. February 9, 2011 at 2:55 pm

        Just a matter of record if you anyone wants to do some quick research Pujols has a no trade clause an is on record stating he would veto any trade. Bloggers here need to do a better job.
  • Met Maniac February 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    I think the biggest fabricated baseball story of 2011 was the one on Metsblog last night that said Mark Cuban, Charles Dolan, Martin Luther King III, Lindsay Lohan and Anderson Cooper all teamed up and were making the Wilpons an offer to buy the Mets today. Of course it was retracted 12 hours later after Dolan and Cuban called it outlandish and irresponsible reporting.

    As for this post, it was presented as specualation and nothing more. It didn’t even say it was based on a rumor. Just pure baseball speculation. nothing more, nothing less.
• sarge February 9, 2011 at 3:04 pm

  My two cents worth, Cards will take a major PR hit if they don’t sign Albert. He does alot of wk in the St. Louis community and though Cards are the big attraction in town, the hit on tickets, souveniers, etc will really hurt this franchise so I see this being done at the last hour or when the season is over.
  The only problem I see will be having all that money tied up in Holliday, Carpenter, Wainwright and Molina and then how do you fill the other spots on team?

  They gave Holliday too much, he wasn’t going anywhere.
  • any February 9, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    most likely carpenter is gone after 2011 to free up that money. And it isn’t like Albert isn’t already getting a lot of money now (16mill for 2011).

    actually, if they give Albert 30mill/yr, and let Carpenter walk (replacing him with a prospect), their payroll in 2012 will actually go DOWN based on those moves.
• Clayton Collier February 9, 2011 at 6:58 pm

  Pujols will either get an extension or walk as a free agent. He’s not going to be traded. He said he would veto any trade the Cardinals attempted.

  As for this Phillies idea, they are happy with Howard and even if they could trade for Pujols they wouldn’t give up Howard, who they locked up for five years, for a rental.

  I see a Cliff Lee-esque offseason except much bigger. I think Pujols will either go to the Angels, Rangers, Cubs and if their financial situations improve, Mets or Dodgers.

  Pujols is not going to become a Phillie
• Brandon Butler February 9, 2011 at 7:06 pm

  You have some crazy ideas Joe. LOL

  I absolutely HATE THE IDEA!
• Met Maniac February 9, 2011 at 9:23 pm

  Pujols to the Phillies? That’s preposterous, since when have the Phillies ever made a bold move like that? The next things you guys are going to post is that the Phillies are going to sign Cliff Lee after they already traded for and signed Roy Halladay and then traded for Roy Oswalt.
  • Donal February 9, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    So, you just decided to jump in without reading the rest of the conversation. Good job.
    • Berbalerbs February 10, 2011 at 10:51 am

      hahahaha, nicely done.
• Sam LaBarbera February 10, 2011 at 11:29 am

  The only issue I have with this article is the fact that it states the Cards would trade him at the deadline. Albert has stated that he will veto any trade, as a 10 year Major Leaguer the last 5 with the same club he has that right.

  So all these trade him to this team for that player is all wrong and speculation, unless Albert does not veto the trade…
• The Daily Pujols – 02.09-11.2011 | Pitchers Hit Eighth :: An Unofficial St. Louis Cardinals baseball blog February 12, 2011 at 1:07 am

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