28
2011
Burkhardt: If Opening Day Was Tomorrow, Castillo Would Be Starter
An article by Craig Lerner
Would this send you in a tizzy if it really happened?
I don’t know how close this is to actually being a reality, but it would shock me if it happened.
The word on Brad Emaus when we drafted him was that he was a poor defensive second baseman, and nobody has said one glowing remark about the Daniel Murphy experiment at second.
My choice has been Murphy all along, but I never imagined a scenario with Luis Castillo winning the job. No way – the though has never crossed my mind.
Even Ruben Tejada, who drove in a couple of runs today, would be better than bringing back Castillo in my opinion.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data systems engineer who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. My girlfriend and I go to about 15 games a year. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go. I bleed blue and orange.
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|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 17 | .605 | - |
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| Mets | 22 | 20 | .524 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 22 | .488 | 5.0 |
Last updated: 05/22/2012
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Would not be good for Castillo or Aldersons ears.
Then its a good thing Opening Day is not tomorrow.
I’ll pay closer attention when Burkhardt is managing the team. Hey, just for fun, I put together my all time NY Mets Best Defensive Players list, by position. What do you think? Note: this is for players known for one position, I have to mention the best defensive outfielder to ever play for the Mets, but who didn’t make the list because he played all three positions, the great, Endy Chavez.
Catcher: Jerry Grote runner up: John Stearns
Ist Base: John Olerud runner up: Ike Davis
2nd Base: Edgardo Alphonzo runner up: Felix Millan
Shortstop: Rey Ordonez runner up: Bud Harrelson
3rd Base: Robin Ventura runner up: David Wright
Left field: Kevin McReynolds runner up:
Centerfield: Carlos Beltran runner up: the late, great Tommie Agee
Right field: Frenchie Francoeur (he actually had terrific fielding percentages with NY) runnerup:
Pitcher: Mike Hampton runner up: Ron Darling
keith over Ike for 1B runner up.
Cleon Jones runner up in LF
Excellent, you are right thanks I forgot about Keith, duh.
I would have Doug Flynn in the mix for second base – probably over Alfonzo and Millan. I would put Keith in front of Olerud – keith was more of a field general and effected plays that werren’t at first.McReynaolds was a great left fielder but a real ******.
You lost me at first base. Did you ever see Keith play,that;s the only explanation for leaving him out.
All-Time Best Fielding Mets
catcher: Alex Trevino
1st Base: Jon Orelud
2nd Base: Brian Giles
3rd Base: Roy Staiger
shortstop: Rey Ordonez
Lf: Bruce Boclair
Cf: Carlos Beltran
Rf: Don Hahn
I’d go: Trevino
Hernandez/Olerud
Alfonzo
Ordonez
Ventura
Gilkey
Beltran
Ochoa/Everett
Catcher- Jerry Grote Runner up Charlie O’Brien
1st Base- Keith Hernandez (All World) Runner up- John Olerud
2nd Base- Roberto Alomar Runner up- Doug Flynn
3rd Base- Robin Ventura Runner up- David Wright
ss- Rey Ordonez Runner up- Bud Harrelson
LF- Kevin McReynolds Runner up- Cleon Jones
CF Carlos Beltran Runner up- Mike Cameron
RF Jeff Francoeur Runner up- Joel Youngblood
P. Ron Darling Runner up- Roger McDowell
did you ever see Tommie Agee play center? It seemed at times that there was nothing he couldn’t get to. He accelerated faster then any other player I’ve ever seen.
yes, it would bother me.
but I think it is a silly comment, since it is only day 2 of ST. And I believe he posted it before today, when Castillo looked like crap from what I hear.
Castillo just has no upside. at best, if he plays out of his mind (given his age and infirmities) he might approach mediocre. And that assumes he doesn’t break down again.
Just play someone else, mix/match if need be. I don’t care if he is smoother around the bag, he still has no range to speak of, and is useless at bat (not being able to get it to the OF anymore).
and whoever said it will be messy was right. Normally I say don’t make moves based on appeasing the fans, but in this case, do it!
The best players should play. We quibble about names, but it really has to be about performance.
Yep! I find it funny how people complained about tejada being ticketed to stay in the Minors and the posts were why don’t we let them all have a shot in ST and keep the best players until the name changes to castillo or Perez!
Let them play and If castillo and Perez are the best options for some role so be it!
Personally I expect Castillo to be the starter, Perez not so much a chance of making the team but he has until March 10th apprently to change my mind! lol
I’m hoping Tejada wins the job, but the are saying they expect him to play another year in the minors – ugh. Hopefully they will change their minds.
But if I had to pick between Castillo, Murphy, or Emaus, I’ll go with Castillo. I think he would be better because Murphy isn’t a real 2B, Emaus isn’t good defensively either, and his minor league numbers are inflated because of hitting in a very small park. He also has a reputation of not hustling – While Castillo is a real 2B, and he hit .300 in just a few years ago – Omar said he was the Mets MVP that year – So I’d rather have Castillo over those two guys.
Castillo has NOT been as bad as people say. Yes he doesn’t hit well guess what he never really ever hit but he did catch everything that came his way. Age has cost him range but it has not hurt his ability to catch the balls he gets to.
If range is an issue then Murphy is an even worse choice despite everything he might do at the plate.
Emaus isn’t really known for his fielding either. But he is basically here in case both castillo and Murphy fail miserably. At least thats how I see it, Sandy may have another opinion.
I like tejada and wish he would hit better but my impression with his going down to AAA is more of an insurance in case we decide to have a firesale mid season and ship Reyes off.
I hope they play well enough to convince Sandy not to do that but I sure am not going to bet on that happening.
[...] Mets Merized Online Posted under Jose Reyes and tagged with Burkhardt, Castillo, Opening, Starter, Tomorrow, Would Comments (0) [...]
tejada fields better than castillo, and can hit better than castillo.
unfortunately, they want tejada to play short in AAA, because they have written off Reyes already.
so it’s emaus, murphy, or castillo.
and the wilpons are too thrifty to just let 6MM walk out the door, so burkhardt is probably right.
Doesn’t Chin-lung Hu mean that Tejada could compete for 2B?
The Tejada edict, for better or worse, was made on more substantial grounds in my view. Of course it can always be revisited if warranted. The front office doesn’t make victims of players — they are a resource for success.
The $6mm is a sunk cost. Gone. Kaput. Finished. It ain’t coming back. It will actually cost more to keep Castillo on if he is not the best option at second base, when you think about it.
And how thrifty can they be if they drop $140mm on a team that doesn’t win?
I look at it like this. For every year you get from a young player not ready to produce you lose a year of team control at 26, 27, 28 or 29. Those are a position players best years. I’d rather one of those than his 20 or 21 age year. That 20 or 21 age year isn’t going to be anywhere near what a top prospect delivers in his prime.
If we had a farm system brimming over that would be one thing but we don’t. We have very few top shelf prospects and those that we do have are miles away.
I don’t know what the plan is, I don’t even know if Alderson knows which way he’s going here. Personally I’m sick of getting the years before or after every players prime. Let him get a solid foundation under him and come up here ready to contribute.
You can’t worry about losing years of team control now. You go with the best players you have – it makes no sense to put out a WORSE player on the field, only because you want to save some money later on.
Vinny, Where exactly did I say anything about “saving money” Tell me. I said I would rather have his age 26 season than his age 20 season which did nothing at all for us. I would also prefer his age 25 season to his age 21 season unless he were to flat out force his way up here after kicking ass for an extended period of time in the International League.
Having real good players in their prime is how you win, not using up their first years with .229 BA’s and moving them to positions they have rarely played.
That’s how you win, not by bringing guys up here before their ready or bringing guys over here after their all used up.
If his contract is up when he’s 26, you just resign him. So you can still have that player in his prime years.
While what you’re saying sounds great on paper, but it doesn’t always work that way in real life. You mean to tell me if you’re best option at 2B was 21, you would put a WORSE player on the field because you want to keep him at a cheaper price for another year? Now that’s NOT how you win, you put the BEST guys on the field no matter what.
But what if keeping him in the minors another year makes him better and allows him to be productive for your club over the long run?
Sure, he will play nice defense for us today, but what if we let him work it out a little longer, and if we do lose Reyes, he learns to hit and can be the everyday shortstop with Havens at second?
That’s not really the way it works though Donal. This idea that you bring up a guy that’s half ready always leads to the media and fans getting on his ass about the half of him that’s not ready. Then they run him out of town. It’s happened repeatedly around here for 20 years because for some weird reason the Wilpon wants some other team to get all of our players best seasons.
But isn’t that precisely what happened to Tejada?
And the SOME REASON is….
Metsmerized
Mets Police
NY Post
NY Daily News
WFAN
ESPN
Etc……etc…….
Why is Jason Bay here? Why isn’t Duda or some other kid playing there instead?
Did you ever think it was because every frigging person who is not charged with running the team coaxed and DEMANDED they go get some high priced power bat or they would be irrelevant THIS year with absoloutly no clue or care what would be best for 2011 and 2012? OR the youth they never cover unless we bring them up?
Vinny, Where did I say a single word about money? I’m talking about actual on the field productivity.
Last year he was a worse hitter than Castillo and made 8 errors compared to Castillo’s 2. He also showed true talent but that it wasn’t yet ready to translate into production at the Major League level. He constantly showed an inability to lay off the high strike and rarely the ability to drive that pitch. He does have the talent to do it but that talent has to be harnessed with repetition in the minors or it will never effectively translate up here consistently.
One reason our prospects struggle up here for months at a time is because they don’t come up here with a solid foundation of adjusting to adjustments made against them. If the guy couldn’t even hit better than Castillo last year what makes you so positive he will this year?
I just can’t understand the idea of rushing every prospect who shows the ability to do anything. The average prospect arrives in the Majors at 24, for some reason we keep bringing them up at 19, 20, 21 BEFORE they have a solid foundation under them.
Terry Collins has said he is “putting as good a swing on the baseball as anybody in this camp.” They also said that Tejada has added some muscle during the offseason – So I think he could hit better than castillo – Tejada is also a far better fielder than Castillo – I don’t care what the numbers say.
I’m talking about on the field productivity too – If Tejada shows he’s better, he wins the job – you go with the best players you have, you don’t worry about losing years of team control now, you’re trying to put the best team out there.
Again, just remember that Collins has not backed off that he would prefer Tejada to play at SS in AAA. Collins has said it’s more about what the other guys do than Tejada.
“I want him to play shortstop,” Collins said. “We know he can play second. It’s not like he has to play second here. It all depends on what those other guys look like when we start playing.”
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/24/mets-want-tejada-to-concentrate-on-shortstop/
Tejada based on how he looked last year wouldn’t even be considered for a Major League spot on this years roster if we had anyone else in our system that looked even remotely ready. That’s why the competition at 2B is between the incumbent, a rule 5, a guy with no position and a guy who was waived last year. Tejada looks to me to be a guy capable of playing really well up here for many years. He didn’t look overmatched or out of place but he did show he wasn’t yet able to make the adjustments necessary to hit ML pitching.
Unlike Mejia I don’t think his time up here cost him anything. If anything it showed him what he needs to work on in order to stay up here the next time he comes up and gave him confidence that he can play in the Majors. I want him to work on those things, get them down and come up here to stay after he demonstrates his ability to make these adjustments and either drive the high strike or learn to take it for a ball.
Integrating those things into his game is what will make him a good Major Leaguer. Last year he wasn’t even as good as the worst hitter on the team.
You’re talking about last year, why don’t we talk about how he looks THIS year. It’s 2011, not 2010.
So, two weeks of batting practice in 2011, versus actual games in 2010.
Hey, it’s better than just looking at what happend a year ago. A LOT can change in a year – He’s a year older, and he’s added some muscle – So let’s see.
Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said “I don’t make any decisions until the end of spring training.”
While our team makes decisions in December. I wonder if they already planned what our opening day lineup in 2012 is?
Oh, so you don’t think Mauer was already the Opening Day catcher? After all, some newbie might come in and hit better than him this spring.
You have to look at the complete body of work. Tejada bulked up and looks better? Ya, he’s supposed to. Thats the point of Winter Ball and offseason work outs. You don’t want the same newbie coming back.
You can’t just think about what will sell tickets in April of this year. You have to think about selling tickets in October for the next 4 or 5 years.
What? Selling tickets in April? What are you talking about? I’m talking about Tejada – I have no idea what you’re talking about.
ST means different things for different players – but I think you know that already. The situation Mauer is in is way different than the situation Tejada is in. Come on you should know this……
I’m just pointing out how off the cuff remarks mean absolutely nothing.
Also, yes, you are worried about right now. How can we be a little better tomorrow? How can we get people excited to show up in April?
Pushing prospects before they are ready is about making news and fixing immediate needs.
Vinny B says:
March 1, 2011 at 11:28 am
“…Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said “I don’t make any decisions until the end of spring training.”
While our team makes decisions in December. I wonder if they already planned what our opening day lineup in 2012 is?”
Vinny really?
You must like taking things out of context to make your point. What you fail to add is that that quote from Gardenhire is in reference to Joe Nathan who is trying to return from Tommy John surgery.
“If [Nathan] comes back and throws like he did two years ago, he’ll probably be our closer.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-nathantwinsrecovery022811
The idea that you now want to say that Gardenhire is saying that everyone invited to the Twins Spring Training including prospects have a shot at making the team is well taking his quote out of context to put it nicely.
Joe Mcilvaine once said “Free agency is a short term solution to a long term problem.” I think the same exact thing applies to rushing your young prospects.
Now I cannot say if we are signing/drafting the wrong guys, developing them the wrong way or what the problem is but the actual on field results of the guys we have brought up have been less than overwhelming to say the least during their first go around up here.
Pelfrey, Kunz, Mejia, Humber, Vargas, Milledge, Gomez, Tejada, Murphy, Fern, Duda, Thole. Occasionally a guy will come up who is ready and all that really shows is that we got it right but look at how many guys came up here where they clearly weren’t ready. Then consider we lost 2 post season appearances by a total of 3 games.
At some point you have to step back and take a look at the big picture.
Soooooooooo? What’s you’re point?
“I don’t make any decisions until the end of spring training.”
That’s what he said.
“The idea that you now want to say that Gardenhire is saying that everyone invited to the Twins Spring Training including prospects have a shot at making the team is well taking his quote out of context to put it nicely.”
It seems like you’re the one who likes to takes things out of context – I never said that Garenhire said everyone invited to ST has a shot at making the team.
Vinny you used the Quote to suggest that he doesn’t make decisions on players till the end of Spring Training. Your point being players like Tejada a prospect invited to camp but the Mets rather he start at AAA.
The truth is his quote was intended for a mlb closer coming off TJ surgery. His quote was not intended to suggest that a player in the same scenario as Tejada is currently in.
I mean really come on you should know better.
In the end your jumping off to conclusions to fit your argument taking a comment and saying that it is meant for every situation when the fact is he used it in respect to one.
Maybe you should try when quoting other sources to both provide the context in which it was said and even better a link so others can see for themselves if they agree with your interpretation of the quote.
Tejada played almost half the season on the Mets last year – So I think if he had a player who played half the year on his team he would see how he does in ST before he decides if he would make the team
You also have to realize that 2B is a very weak postion for the Mets. Murphy isn’t really a 2B to begin with, Emaus hasn’t even played in the majors, and his numbers are inflated because of that park, he is bad on defense too. Castillo didn’t hit that much better than Tejada last year anyway, and Tejada is way better on defense. Plus Tejada is a year older this year, and added some muscle. So under that situation he should be given a chance to win the job.
Vinny I understand that in your opinion he should be considered but the fact is the Mets dont agree.
They would rather have him at SS in AAA and only recently have mentioned considering him only depending on how the others competing for the job pan out.
I have already replied to you with the quote from Collins saying he wants him at ss. but if it will refresh your memory here it is again.
“I want him to play shortstop,” Collins said. “We know he can play second. It’s not like he has to play second here. It all depends on what those other guys look like when we start playing.”
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/24/mets-want-tejada-to-concentrate-on-shortstop/
Its about if the other guys fail to step up and win the job more that will force Collins to consider if he has to go with Tejada at 2b.
If he had his way he wants him at AAA playing SS though.
Tejada played half the season, not very well and only half the time in June July and August. Why he was even up here is beyond me. The fact that we have no one else is the only reason Tejada is even under consideration for the roster. Successful teams bring their players up when they are ready not every time they have an opening somewhere.
We so rarely have any truly talented prospects and when we do we always want to rush them up here before their ready to make a difference.
If a 20 year old last year wasn’t able to hit better than Luis Castillo then clearly he wasn’t ready and it was a mistake to bring him up. It was also a mistake that we didn’t have someone to bridge the gap from Castillo to Tejada/Havens but those mistakes cannot be made up for by making yet another one now.
If he proves it in AAA bring him up at the All Star break. I just don’t see how that harms his future.
Tag “Now I cannot say if we are signing/drafting the wrong guys, developing them the wrong way or what the problem is but the actual on field results of the guys we have brought up have been less than overwhelming to say the least during their first go around up here.”
Well part of what you need to look at is WHY they were brought up to determine if they were rushed or not.
mejia was rushed up and put into a WRONG role merely because the management was under fire and needed to win games. So thats a case of rushitis. Caused by win now!
tejada got rushed up because castillo got hurt. Again a WIN NOW! Unfortunatly we fans and media pushed them to do that and they were right because there was no future for them to be planning for!
Then there are the guys like Murphy who were left down because there was no place to play him. Not Rushed but maybe we lost soem productive seasons we might have had if we had a place to play him.
The PLAYER will show you when he is ready. The question is did you buy so many free agents or develop talent previously that there is no place to put him?
If say we had a great kid who plays centerfield show he was ready the past three years would he be promoted? Where would he play? are you going to sit Beltran?
Who you buy and who you draft are co-joined in a way that most people do not think about.
At the time we signed Beltran we had no CF prospcts to think of. not so much omar’s fault but it was what he had to deal with. If say some CF in the Minors tore the cover off the ball and had good defense he would still have to put up better numbers than Beltran and even then only a trade of beltran would have made that pick pay off.
Jacobs (who was drafted by the Mets) got sent packing a year after being brought up because we had signed Delgado! One thing to be READY but if ready doesn’t mean better than what you have what do you do with a good draft pick that is ready but has no place to play?
Which is precisely where Murphy is. If Wright were not here Murphy would now be our 3rd baseman and we might have gotten two years out of that homegrown we have not gotten to date and still may not get unless he can field the 2B position.
it is easy to say take the best player available in the draft regardless of need but in the end the NEED is going to drive the success or fail rate of that pick selection.
This is one of the leading reasons why I say WIN NOW, wins NEVER!
Because it is the aquisition you make in order to win now that usually will inhibit the promotion and long term development of the players needed to sustain building from within.
It’s not enough to make smart selections in the draft. You also have to make sure that the rest of your plan accounts for having a place for him to play when he is ready.
the best young 3B to ever enter the draft could have been there 4 years ago. But with David Wright solidly the starter at 3B there is no way that picking that guy can work out for you unless he can show getting rid of Wright improves the position. And most rookies will not do that in their first year, Maybe in their second but then if they can’t play everyday how can they do it at all?
Which leaves them stuck in the Minors longer than they should and your only option is to trade them away until they can prove they are a better option when it is way too late to benefit from signing and developing him!
Kazmir is a prime example of that!
We wanted Pitching now and didn’t think he was ready. So we traded him only to find out he WAS ready and would have given us more than the player we traded him for.
It really comes down to making sure that if you drafted a guy and developed him you can’t rush him just to win now or have a roster where he has no opportunity to be a success!
It’s a timing thing and If Mejia, jacobs, Tejada, Gee, Havens, Flores and FMart have decent seasons this year you would have to say Omar got it all right and we blew it when we got rid of him!
I don’t expct that to happen but if it does you have to review exactly what Omar did because he probably got things right and just ran out of time to see it through.
You would have the following in 2011.
1B Davis
2B Havens
SS Tejada or Reyes
3B Wright
LF Bay
CF Pagan
RF Duda or F-Mart
C Thole
Santana would prob still lead the rotation with:
Pelfrey
Mejia
Niese
Gee
Well you don’t get much more home grown than that!
Now you can fill in with all the money you saved on Beltran, castillo and Perez alone and maybe go get an Ace to replace Santana!
But you need some very rosy glasses and a lot of luck for all of that to happen.
I certainly don’t expect it to but I bet Omar had when he selected all of those guys!
Metsie, Trying to win now every year like we have does prevent you from winning consistently later.
Omar did have his work seriously cut out for him. He was sure he could quickly get us into the post season and continue that success with his IFA’s
If Church could have transitioned into Fern and Castillo held the fort until Havens or Tejada was ready and Murphy could have hit and fielded well enough in LF and Perez became a decent starter he could have pulled it off but none of those four came through for him and with all the draft choices forfeited and bad drafting during his run combined with IFA stagnation at the upper levels he just ran out of time. Like you said.
With 50 draft choices or so and a couple dozen IFA’s it’s impossible to say just who is going to make it. That’s why you build up and then fill in with free agents, when you know what you need.
Signing a free agent for four years just because “well who else were we going to get to play _________?” is not a plan. Giving up draft choices to try to win now can work but almost never does work. Everything has to go right and it rarely does. Davis, Niese and Thole look like they have come through for him. Gee, Duda, Murphy, Tejada and Mejia might. There’s plenty more he brought in here too at the lower levels but it does no good for them or us to rush them.
Omar could have made a dozen or so trades like the sort Alderson did to get Hu. Not a bold splashy back page type of move but one that would address a short term need in exchange for another teams short term/low risk type move.
Had he done things like this we could have had players with potential upside that we didn’t have to live with, were younger and therefore less injury prone, played better D and ran the basses better and wouldn’t have cost picks and they would have provided the time for Omar’s plan to work.
Anytime you think your only one player away your about to make a mistake.
Tejada didn’t look like he had any problems transitioning over to 2B last year so I don’t think he’ll have too much difficulty playing either position. To me that’s a sign of true talent.
Having lots of young talent at the same positions doesn’t concern me in the least. I would love that situation. If by some chance we signed Reyes and both Tejada and Havens came through that would be the best of all worlds. A young vet and 2 rookies sharing 3 positions. Depth, options for the manager, rest and a lack of complacency. Perfect situation. Time to get to work finding 2 more talented MIers so that means about 25 guys from the draft of IFA market to fight it out.
Yes that is how it works,
He already went through AA and AAA, came up last year because of an emergency. Now we may find out that he’s ready much faster than anyone anticipated.
That just may happen. He also may be part of the answer for the future too. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe Reese Havens is the future star, maybe he’s not. We will see.
Tejada may hit, win the job, and help us win this year.
He may be ready NOW. That’s not unusual, it happens all the time.
Please, now no more history of Mets drafts and what it take to progress through the minors. Tejada went through all that and he may be ready NOW.
“Guessing and hopeing hasn’t been very productive for us for a very long time”
Relax, we’re having fun debating who will win the 2B job, that’s what the subject is here.
Once the games start for real on opening day is when you find out just how much better he may be than last year.
ST is really only good to see if the talent to play in the Majors is there and how close it MIGHT be.
The only reason he was up here at all last year is because we had no one else. If we had had a competent backup MIer he would have been left alone to work on his game.
We’re not talking about a Miguel Cabrera or Andruw Jones here.
He already proved he has the talent but that he wasn’t ready yet, why not let him prove he is ready instead of risking yet another year of poor production from 2B. I can’t stand the poor play from 2B we have gotten since Fonzie left. Excluding one year of Relaford and Valentin we have had the worst production at this position of all the ML teams since 2002 and it really hasn’t been a source of great play very often in our entire history.
5% more than what Castillo/Emaus/Murphy/Hu/Hernadez/Turner do isn’t going to make much of a difference anyway and one of those guys could establish themselves too and either turn out to be useful going forward or bring us something for one of our numerous glaring weaknesses.
Most teams make their young prospects earn their promotion to the Majors instead of just hopeing they can do it.
Well,
Tejada is going to prove if he’s ready or not in Spring Training. It is as simple as that, and that’s how it normally works. He already has a half year of MLB experience under his belt and his swings already look stronger and faster.
I don’ think VInnie had Miguel Cabrera or Andrew Jones in mind either when discussing Tejada. I think all he’s saying is he’s the best option we may have right now. Not that he’s Miguel Cabrera.
The kid could be already better than Castillo.
Now is the time his transition to MLB player may be starting. Who says it’s going to start later? Why does he have to go down to AAA? Maybe he is ready now, we’ll know in the next couple of weeks.
But right now, in my opinion, the starting 2B for this team is going to be either Castillo or Tejada and if this team wants to win games, have a new identity and HAVE a solid defense up the middle than hopefully Tejada hit’s enough and he’s the man.
I have to see Emaus first before I have an opinion on him…even though since I heard is glove isn’t that great, he has NEVER played Major League ball, and he may have some attitude problems too…so it doesn’t look too promising for him either ..but to be fair…..we have to see him play at 2B first.
Maybe one day we’ll finally get a chance to see Emaus play 2B in ST.
I disagree with your opinion Bayonne.
Based on what has been said so far the Mets still would rather have Tejada go down and play ss at AAA. It’s more about if none of the others do enough to impress that will determine the outcome rather than anything else.
Lets just say for arguments sake that Tejada wins the 2B Job.
What happens to Havens when he is ready?
Look at what happened to Jose Reyes when we put him at 2B because we had Matsui to play SS!
When we drafted him we drafted him as a SS, A notoriously weak hitting position that focuses more on fielding than Batting.
We drafted Havens to play second and he looks like he may be only a year or two away. Hell might even win the job mid season this year!
Tejada did a good job in the field but a bad job at the plate.
His most important function is as an insurance policy and plan B should reyes either get traded or get hurt.
Bouncing him between second and SS will not keep his fielding skills fresh it will only mess him up! He is going to the minors until such time as Jose Reyes’ fate is determined and once determined either traded or converted to a Utility IF if he hits.
Instead of worrying about who is going to play 2B this year if you want to build a team that can win consistently we should be looking for who will play the position for the nexy 5 or 6 years.
Under the previous plan that was Havens! not Tejada!
That’s not how it normally works. How it normally (with successful teams) is that a player, through demonstrated competence in AA or AAA transitions into a Major League job. The prospect, through his performance lets the team know when he is ready not the other way around.
We already know he wasn’t ready last year. There is no way to find out how much he may have bridged the gap between last year and this one in ST.
ST doesn’t hold a candle to September as far as prospect projection goes and neither holds a candle to actual on field results in regular season league competition.
If he’s ready he’ll be proving it soon enough, anything else is just a guess or a hope. Guessing and hopeing hasn’t been very productive for us for a very long time.
The Braves didn’t bring Freeman up last year, they cleared the way for him this year but he’s
And say someone shows he is ready to play 3B.
Who you trading Wright to?
It’s one thing to have a kid ready.
Its another to be READY for his READY!
No place to play then the kid being ready really doesn’t matter!
It could be said Murphy is ready to play 3B is he going to?
Thats what we developed him to be!
Metsie, one thing about your point on prospects being blocked in the minors.
If your even attempting to project what future years rosters might look like ahead of time you can easily see where you have a surplus and a need.
If your actively scouting other teams minor league affiliates you can identify guys AHEAD of time and look for a match. What might they need vs. what will we need two or three years from now.
For example we have had a couple of interesting prospects at 3B that were blocked by David Wright. Shawn Bowman, Daniel Murphy and Zach Lutz. Bowman we lost in the rule 5 draft to Toronto, He’s now in the Braves system. Murph’s been a vagabond and Lutz is on the 40 so he’s safe from rule 5 poachers and backs up a key position from AAA with some upside. Knowing that Matsui may not be the answer and Valentine and Easily wouldn’t be here forever perhaps a match could have been found.
A few years ago, facing the imminent loss of Lindstrom to rule 5 and wanting to clear a spot on the 40 Omar traded him and Henry Owens to FLA for Jason Vargas who didn’t need to be on the 40 yet due to only being in pro ball for 2 years. Vargas pitched well for Seattle (he was in the Putz deal) last year.
Theo Epstein traded Chris Carter to us in 2009 knowing he would have to remove him from the 40 to make room to protect a more well rounded prospect from the rule 5 draft and would probably lose him for nothing. The two prospects that he was able to draft from “losing” Wagner wouldn’t have to be protected for 4 years.
This is the part of Omar’s run as Met GM that is so mystifying to me. Everyone rightly credits Omar’s talent evaluation as his strongest suit. He would have been the first GM since Mcilvaine that would have been able to spot potential solutions from other organizations and combined with common sense about logjams, blocks, ect COULD HAVE provided the solutions ahead of time that wouldn’t have left us dependent on the free agent market and led to us forfeiting so many draft choices. We also wouldn’t have had to live with so many long term contracts, paid so much in payroll and having younger players been so vulnerable to injury.
If our payroll was less top heavy we could have afforded decent back ups rather than other teams rejects or our own under developed prospects.
Nobody’s going to be right all the time when your dealing in prospects but the same can be said for high priced free agents as well.
No one was in a better position than Omar to know just how poor the minor league system was. He knew it would take a year or so to gain traction in the IFA and draft. He also knew that whoever he did sign or draft wouldn’t be able to contribute for 4-5 years. You can’t quibble too much with giving up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Pedro and Beltran, the trade for Delgado and even the Wagner signing is defensible but come 2007 we should have had a guy (or two) that Omar found and kept the #1 pick, had an in house starter to back up El-Duque, Pedro, Glavine, Wagner, Valentin, and Delgado. After all that’s a lot of age right there and with next to nothing in AA or AAA this lack of depth cost us way more than 3 games over 2007 and 2008.
Managing your 40 and projecting future rosters ahead of time would have easily prevented some of the worst mistakes in free agency and in seasons where we lost by one or two games been the difference between making the post season or not.
Tag – “If your actively scouting other teams minor league affiliates you can identify guys AHEAD of time and look for a match. What might they need vs. what will we need two or three years from now.”
Works great provided the other team’s plan fits with yours and is willing to make the trade. But finding guys on other teams is easy. Getting them to trade for a fair price is hard.
Remember your not trading with some computer GM. And just about every team has a glut of OFers. So why do they need one of ours and give up a 2B or pitcher?
You say perhaps a match could be found but usually what stops the deal is the insistence on getting more than just a match!
Boston is really a bad example here. They make more trades of their GOOD players than they do for the minors. Or let those players go to get draft picks that get them what they need.
And still they may be competitive but they are hardly a dominant team.
As for the team having top heavy salary guys well if we didn’t we still wouldn’t have a competitive team. Maybe if we traded Beltran in the last two years we might have done what Boston has but then again how much do you get for a CF with Knee issues.
Would trading Wright really solve our 2B problem or would it just cause a NEW problem at 3B?
Would Murphy do as much?
Can you get anything for Murphy when teams know you have no place to play him?
This is the year where the Youth Plan was going to transition.
Beltran and Reyes are both at the end and this offseason would be the time to decide to let that gbo and bring up youth or keep them and trade that youth for something else.
So you can’t say we failed to do what you propose it’s just that we did not wait long enough to let it happen the way it was planned and injuries forced us to rush the plan which is why the plan looks as bad as it does right now.
I still don’t see how you believe it is so easy to just draft and develop players.
Because we already discussed how long it took the Yankees, Braves and Phillies to do that.
Boston rebuilt after years and years of never winning a WS.
And it wasn’t until they spent some money and made some trades for guys like Pedro that they were actually successful at winning something!
They made trades for much of it but they also gave away stupid amounts of youth to get it!
What are you saying Metsie, That there is never a match in the minors between any of the 30 teams in MLB? Of course there is. Team A has 3 potential thirdbasemen and a young All Star already in the Majors. Team B has an overabundance of corner OF prospects. That’s not rare. A deal can be struck. Many teams have high rated prospects at the same position. Sometimes they also have a have someone already there at the ML level who projects to be there for a while but they have a shortage somewhere else. Maybe a deal can’t be struck with one team but it could be with another, or the first team next year.
Not every solution should be addressed by the free agent market.
Teams can find prospects beyond the 3rd round that become very good ML players. Happens all the time. Even with us on occasion. Niese, Thole, Parnell. Those guys came from the 2005 draft. If we had done as well in 2004, 2006 and 2007 we might have our 2B by now. Maybe a RFer. Might not have had to purchase a 3rd LFer from the FA market in the last 8 years. Might not have lost 2 post seasons by 3 games either and might have picked up another Niese, Thole, Parnell (or better) with the two #2 or one #1 picks we forfeited.
It’s doesn’t have to be an either or proposition.
I’m saying it takes two to tango. What good is a fit if the other side wants more than what is fair?
They will make your trade that fits provided Niese or davis is included. Then it’s a bad deal!
making a deal is only worth it if it is a good deal.
There is no reason for some other GM to make it just because it works for you and him. and it sure isn’t 30 teams to choose from.
Teams like the Pirates value their youth more than any other team. They want more than they give!
You can’t blame our GM for not allowing himself to get raped or for not making a move that wasn’t fair!
And you can’t blame him for not making a deal the other side didn’t want to make!
You CAN NOT build from within on the assumption you will get some other team’s prospects.
In fact the only ones who actually give away prospects are the ones who are already winning or close, and don’t need those prospects so they trade them away in bulk to get some big salary guy.
Thats what Boston did anyway! Yankees did it quite a bit, Phillies just did that two years running!
The braves once the pitching went they were done!
I don’t understand why your assuming that two teams with an overabundance or blockage at one position can not come to an agreement with each other to fill positions they have a shortage at.
I wasn’t saying to build from within on the assumption that you could obtain other prospects, I was just saying that at some point you realize you have 2 decent third basemen in the minors and David Wright already here why not look around and see who doesn’t have a decent third basemen in their system and take a look at what they do have that might be blocked. Exchanging a 3B for a 2B while their both in A+ might work for everyone.
Trading off the 25 mid season for a well regarded prospect is the best way to firm up future teams rosters and I’m not talking about salary dumps. I’m talking real prospects. 2006, 2007 and 2008 we weren’t in a position to do that but how about 2004, 2005, 2009 and 2010?
That’s how Atlanta GOT Smoltz. That’s how we got Sid, Darling and Hojo. Not trading Wagner for a DH or a Francouer, Matsui style salary dump. Eat the salary and get someone we’re not going to waive.
Atlanta may have fallen on hard times with their first 2 losing seasons of the last 20 years but their right back now, with plenty of young pitchers they obtained while they were still going to the post season every year and two other top shelf position players who will be around for quite a while.
No 25 year spells between developing an All Star RFer for them. They even got a pitcher from the World Baseball Classic off the Australian team.
Atlanta is always looking in every possible place for players. Their scouting dept picks guys up off waivers, independent leagues, they have a pipeline from the Caribbean and they select and develop loads of players in all rounds of the draft. From the extremely few in the first round all the way to Brian Giles in the 53rd round.
Their results speak for themselves since Cox, Schulheiss and Wren took over.
“I don’t understand why your assuming that two teams with an overabundance or blockage at one position can not come to an agreement with each other to fill positions they have a shortage at.”
Because that isn’t what happens in the MLB! How many deals like that are made a year? 3 or 4?
Out of 30 teams???!??!?!??!??!?!
Those deals do not happen as often as you think they do or could.
They would rather package their excess and go get a ML player that puts them into contention now!
Who in their right mind listed anyone at 1st base defensively over Keith Hernanadez?
John Olerud was a darn good man with the glove but Keith is thought by many to be the best first baseman of all time with his….
it’s just sad that castillo is our best option, a guy with zero range and can’t hit the ball more than a hundred feet.just sad.
You think Murphy has better range? Really?
he can hit it out of the infield at least on a regular basis.
What good is that if he can’t get to the plate because he is letting everyone else hit it past the infield on a regular basis?
I’m taking it down here! LOL
Tag “Tejada didn’t look like he had any problems transitioning over to 2B last year so I don’t think he’ll have too much difficulty playing either position. To me that’s a sign of true talent.”
Didn’t look like it but what if the focus he used on transitioning is the reason he was not hitting?
Wasn’t facing ML Pitching for the first time challening enough that he had to add playing a position he never played before to the mix?
Remember these are HUMAN BEINGS not some statistical or Robotic automaton.
The most successful part of developing talent is knowing when your putting too much for a human to handle on a person. Of course some players rise to that occassion but that says more about their internal makeup (which has nothing to do with numbers or stats) than it says about proper development or skills and talent.
That’s what I think was wrong with Murphy’s bat in 2009. Remember at the end of 2008 he came up and raked? He didn’t have to worry about a position. The Mets stuck him left field on a temporary basis and not only did he actually field pretty decently (not at all like the debacle when it was thought he had to actually play that position in 2009), but he hit a ton. The in 2009 when he had to learn LF and then learn 1B, he struggled at the plate. His OPS was 100 points higher in the second half of 2009 as he became more comfortable playing 1B, but while he was trying to learn it, his first half was terrible.
That’s another big reason why I hope he fields decently enough to win the 2B job. If he’s guaranteed where he’s playing every day, he has less to worry about and can focus more on hitting.
Your right Metsie and changing positions when players get up here really pisses me off. It just emphasizes the lack of any kind of coherant long range developmental plan we have for prospects and it’s been that way since forever. It’s just yet another way we sabotage our prospects. In Tejada’s case though it looked to me that he had played a fair amount of 2B. Actually I thought he looked better at 2B than SS.
I have been complaining for years about the Mets not grooming and planning for their prospects and putting them in the best possible position. Murphy in LF was singularly absurd. Trading away Chavez and his outstanding glove and upbeat positive nature and then bringing in a future HOFer looking for his 500th just to spook him. Really brilliant. Duda and Evans play 1B the last few years so we put them in the OF. Mejia’s a starter, we put ‘em in the pen, Reyes – Matsui, Alfonzo, Jeffries it never ends. Next up Wilmer. Spin the wheel where he winds up nobody knows.
I don’t think it really hurt Tejada though it seems like he had played there quite a bit and his hitting issues were more a case of getting his hands knocked off the bat and not yet having learned to lay off the quasi high strike. love his eye and nice short swing and his unflappable nature though.
agee, guys have to change all the time, based on what positions are open and where the team needs them. and sometimes it happens on short notice (such as when Delgado went down and murphy shifted over to 1B).
it might be a little rough at first, but guys adapt. Been happening in MLB for generations.
Any Tag is trying to say if you draft properly you shouldn’t have to do that. In a way he is semi correct but even if you draft correctly there will be times when that pick can’t possibly be ready to deal with some other issue that happened that screwed up the plan. Such as Delgado getting hurt. Orf Beltran getting hurt, Or Santana getting hurt.
Since you can’t predict injury you can not plan for it. You can expect them to happen but unless you have drafted an entire team worth (IMPOSSIBLE in just 6 years) there is no way to be prepared for every circumstance!
Well Tag why did we do all of that?
Was it because we didn’t draft properly or because someone decided they had to WIN NOW and they had to lay all their cards on the table in an order that didn’t fit the plan?
They have players for all of those positions in the minors. But no one wanted to give them the time to develop and bring them up!
Did Omar go after Bay because he had no OFs to play? Hardly he has plenty of OFs to bring up. He went after him because every paper and almost every blogger complained and said we need to go after a big name to be respectable and WIN NOW and if he hadn’t he would have been fired mid season instead of at the end!
WE CAUSED THE ABANDONMENT of Omars plan!
His only mistake was listening to us both because it didn’t work and he got fired anyway!
Now look at all the youth I mentioned. How can you say he didn’t develop players?
He DID! He just didn’t do it fast enough to please everyone and I say neither the Phillies or Braves and yes even the yankees have done it any quicker. They just did it 20 years ago (10 for the Phillies) and haven’t really done it since!