18
2011
What I Want To See From Collins On Managing The Bullpen
An article by Former Writers
November 23, 2010 is the day that Terry Collins was officially announced the new manager of the New York Mets. I’ve been on record saying that I don’t agree with Sandy Alderson’s hiring of Collins. I’m not going into why again. It’s done. Collins will be the manager for 2011 and most likely 2012. I don’t like it, but I’ll still be watching games on SNY and going to some games at Citi Field. I’m hoping that Collins can prove me wrong.
The last two managers; Willie Randolph and Jerry Manuel were not my favorite managers either. There was a lot I observed that I didn’t like. I’m hoping that Sandy Alderson is as good as everyone says he is and his hire of Collins won’t be the third bad manager in a row for the franchise.
For my next few of posts I will be posting what I’m looking for Terry Collins to accomplish with the team this season. For today’s post I’ll begin with:
The Bullpen
There’s no question in my mind that Willie and Jerry did not know how to run a successful pitching staff. When you consider some of the questionable moves like pulling starters way too early, or leaving them in way too long, it’s not difficult to see why the Mets haven’t made the playoffs since 2006.
Randolph and Manuel were also horrible at bullpen management. There were never any specific roles for most of the relievers other than that of the closer. Of course in 2008 when Billy Wagner went down, Randolph never had a closer, so it became a closer by committee and usually going with the hot hand. You look around the majors and most teams have established roles for their bullpen.
When Jerry took over the team from Randolph he even said that one of the things he was going to do was establish roles for each reliever in the bullpen. He recognized that Randolph’s way of running the pen by using the hot hand was in the end not a recipe for success.
Unfortunately Jerry was all talk and no action and he became guilty of doing the same thing. In fact one can argue that Jerry was even worse at managing the pen than his predecessor. Scott Schoeneweis was a bad reliever in general, and especially bad against right handed batters, but Manuel would put him in anyway! hoping that somehow he would get a better result. No matter how many times Schoeneweis would struggle against the righties he was always tabbed to face a righthanded hitter the next game he was called upon.
A more recent example would be Pedro Feliciano. Feliciano is one of the best left handed specialists in the game in my opinion. However he’s not very good against righties. Better than Schoeneweis without a doubt, but still the numbers show that righties can and more often than not get the better of him.
I would like to for Collins to know his relievers, understand their strengths and weaknesses, and put them into situations and roles where they will succeed.
As an added bonus, it would be great if he actually tried to avoid burning out his bullpen by Memorial Day.
You look at how Manuel would abuse the arms of guys like Feliciano, Parnell and Nieve and it’s no wonder why they were having trouble pitching as the season went on. Nieve was good the first few months and perhaps if used properly he could have kept it going, but unfortunately his arm was just worn out from overuse and soon after he was done.
I still don’t have a lot of faith in Collins, but what can I do besides talk about it here and on Twitter? I can only hope that Terry Collins is the right choice and that he will manage his bullpen the right way and that Alderson was right in hiring him over, in my opinion, some better candidates.
Next week I’ll look at Collins and filling out a lineup card.
About the Author: Former Writers
10 Comments + Add Comment
Recent Comments
- Donal: on So Where Are All Those Moneyball Players?: Are you saying Byrd couldn't get a...
- Joe Gomes: on MLB Scout On Davis: Would Have Been Better Served Going To Minors Last Season: As I have said many times, the...
- Metsie: on So Where Are All Those Moneyball Players?: Well Phil, #1 they set thier OWN...
- Hitman: on MLB Scout On Davis: Would Have Been Better Served Going To Minors Last Season: Someone should tell that scout to relay...
- Hotstreak: on The 2013 Mets Are Suffering From A Lack Of Accountability: Please rememeber in two other organizations TC...
MMO Mets Chat
Need Tickets To The Mets Game?
Check Out These Great MLB Links!
Photographs From Gordon Donovan
5391 Fans Follow Us On Twitter!
1269 Fans Like Us On Facebook!
2341 Fans Read Our Feed!
1702 Fans Subscribe via Daily Email!
Greg, as the first poster, my only positive comment is to pass on he oft reliable words my sainted Grandmother would caution with;”DON’T GO BORROWING TROUBLE” by which she meant to not go imagining the worst when unsubstantiated by facts, until u see what occurs, don’t lose any sleep is how I’d put it. Greg, too often we fans draw conclusions without ANY FACTS let alone ALL OF THE FACTS! A baseball manager like any business manager has multiple responsibilites to fulfill 1) to his product(business operations) 2) to his employees(personnel), 3) to himself(career agrandizement), 4) to the overall business BRAND. RH reliever eligibility may play as much a part to keeping the LOOGEY IN OR NOT. Considering your complaints span 2 distinctly different PCs(Peterson & Warthen) supposedly advising said mngr. I believe it’s more apropriate to conclude the issues involved are more grayscale than BLACK & WHITE! Greg u complained SP taken out too early; typically I find this complaint is most valuable when the SP is a young stud like possibly a Hughes or Hamels, sorry, I haven’t seen that around Flushing in 25 years. Shakey SP like a Maine,Pelfrey,Perez, Niese,Gee, Mitsch, Dessens, et al. typically don’t improve theier in-game performances as pitch counts rise. There isn’t a Darling, Fernandez or even an Aguillera among the crowd. Greg, it ALL sounds good & plays well; but in the hard,harsh light of honest evaluations it isn’t worth the keystrokes to express.
Has Pomes EVER used facts to write a blog though?
Facts, coherent thought, proof reading: All things Greg seems to have a little trouble grasping.
As Tim McCarver used to say about pitching, it’s not what pitch you concluded an AB with, it’s how you got to that pitch. Therein lies the story. How did we get from a bull pen in 2006 which had only 3 pitchers, Heath Bell, Henry Owens and Jorge Julio, pitching a combined 60 innings who had lower than league average strand rates while every one else had a higher than average strand rate?
The results of the pen in 2006 would indicate to anyone that Randolph DID know how to use a bull pen. He got off the only three guys who weren’t “getting out of it” and gave those innings to guys that WERE “getting out of it.”
The starting rotation was Glavine 40, 32 stars, Trachsel 35, 30 starts, Pedro 34, 23 starts, El-Duque 40?, 20 starts and Maine 25, 15 starts. Other starters were Soler (8), Perez (7), Bannister (6), David Williams (5) Victor Zambranno (5), Pelfrey(4), Lima (4) and Geromi Gonzalez (3). Obviously the starting rotation was in constant flux all year long which increased the stress on the bull pen but it never broke even after Duaner went down after only 55 superb innings. In fact I would say Randolph did an incredible job in winning 97 games under these conditions and especially in light of the age, injuries, inexperience or journeyman status of every single starting pitcher.
It should also be pointed out that our ace Pedro went down for good in August and El-Duque on the eve of the playoffs and Trachsel after just a couple of pitches IN a playoff game and STILL Willie (and Peterson) with the entire season riding on two games got an incredible start out of Maine and good one (with a HUGE boost from Endy out of Perez. Show me another manager who loses his ace in August and TWO other starting pitchers IN the playoffs, gets two starts like those two from Maine and Ollie and comes within a base hit of going to the World Series and then tell me he can’t handle a pitching staff.
So, what changed about Willie’s use of the bull pen for the author to conclude that he no longer knew how to use a bull pen? How about the people who made up the bullpen? Any changes there? Well actually there were a few. Roberto Hernandez(41), Darren Oliver(35), Chad Bradford (31) and the aformentioned Duaner. All told about 218 innings.
Now here is where I don’t blame Omar’s thought process, and while we cannot know for sure it would seem probable that between age and the volatile status of relief pitchers Omar decided to offer them arb (smart move) and re work the pen.
Hernandez and Bradford, both type A free agents (itself an indication of just how WELL Randolph managed the bull pen since rarely does a non closer become a type A and yet we had TWO non closer type A free agents), Both declined and signed with Cleveland and Baltimore respectively. Bradford at 31 was looking for max years and got 3/9 from the orioles and that probably surprised Omar who declined to match and then panicked and went 3/10 for Schowenweiss. This is how he wound up being a “cross over” expected to fill our RH low walk, and impossibly low HR rate ground ball specialist vs. RH hitters.
It is always easy to look back and identify bad moves. Grady little takes Pedro out, next guy gives up the hit, all you would hear is “biggest out of the year and he takes out a multiple Cy Young award winner to bring in (insert name of goat.)” Other mistakes are less clear at the time but this off season was truly the beginning of the end for the team that came so close. Omar’s golden touch was about to turn green.
With two first round picks, unless protected then 2nd rounders and two supplementary round picks in the 2007 June amateur draft (# 42 and #47) from the loss of Hernandez and Bradford Omar felt he could simply hand over, without waiting to see if SF offered Alou arb, our own #1 pick (#29.) I find it very hard to imagine that a GM would have willingly handed over this pick. The most probable scenario is that the Wilpon’s panicked over possibly having to fork over signing bonuses for up to three 1st rounders and two supplemental draftees and were not dismayed in the least by the loss of the 29th best amateur prospect in the Country. This after rip roaring attendance all year long including two post season series.
Omar set about re working the pen. Traded Bannister for Burgos, Ring and Bell for Ben Johnson OF bust, signed Guillermo Moto for two years, 5 million despite the knowledge that his only success had come when Omar KNEW he was using steroids, kept Heilman, Feliciano, traded Henry Owens and Matt Lindstrom for Jason Vargas (one of 5 prospects later shipped out for an injured JJ Putz.) Joe Smith (3rd round 2006) made the team after only 32 IP in the minors. Aaron Sele got a million as a un restricted FA. Jorge Sosa got 2 million. Author’s conclusion: Randolph didn’t use the pen correctly.
OK, so a great pen used very well by Mr. Randolph is transformed into a s**t pen overnight and now after using his 2006 pen expertly despite more challenges with the starting rotation then most managers face in a career he is left with the above and we’re going to blame him. OK. Onto the picks. Could have been 5 in the first and supplemental rounds but turned into 4 by a hasty Omar or a financially panicked J. Wilpon.
Hernandez signed with Cleveland turning that #1 into a #2 round pick. Bradford signed with Baltimore, also a protected pick but since they had also signed Danys Baez that pick turned into a 3rd rounder.
So how did we do? Here’s the good. Lutz 5th round, Duda 7th round, Carson 14th round, Michael Antonini(just traded for Hu) 18th round, Dylan Owen (kid with the no hitter in winter ball) 20th round. Gee 21st round.
The 5 first or supplemental round picks, turned into 4 (Alou 100 games over two years and 15 Million) then turned into 2 supplementals a 2nd and a 3rd plus our own 2nd and 3rd returned the following: Eddie Kunz RH college relief pitcher, BUST. Nathan Vineyard LH high school pitcher, cashed the check and quit after 30 innings in the minors, BUST Scott Moviel RH high school pitcher, BUST. Brant Rustich RH college relief pitcher, BUST. Eric Niesen LH college pitcher, BUST. Steven Clyne RH college pitcher, BUST.
It’s still too early to say for many of these prospects but among the players available after the 1st round #29 up through our last 3rd round pick include, Julio Borbon, Travis D’Arnud (included in Halliday deal) Brett Cecil, Tommy Hunter, Jordan Zimmerman, Barry Enright, Mike Stanton, Freddie Freeman, Austin Romine. Two starting pitchers, 2 catchers and a superstar right fielder, but who needs one of those.
The bottom line is this, While the undereducated minority was howling, and the more knowledgeable Met Fan was rueing a called strike curveball all winter long our future inability to get to the World Series was being guaranteed. El-Duque Valentin and Alou shared a rocking chair, each went down. Maine, Ollie and Pelfrey were in the rotation, the trade for Castillo necessitated by the injury to Valentin and the possibility of a huge boost for the future denied by financial pressure after finishing 3rd in the NL in attendance, bad luck, bad scouting, bad developing but it was all Randolph’s fault. He doesn’t know how to use a pen.
This off season was the beginning of the end. The failure to adequately back up Valentin led directly to Castillo, the failure to sign Bradford led directly to Showenweiss. The reliance on Orlando Hernandez, Pedro and Glavine led directly to Perez, The signing of Alou cost us the 29th highest rated amateur and led directly to resigning and re counting on him which led to Murphy being counted on to play LF in 2008 which led to Bay being signed for 5/80.
This off season also led to Health Bell’s first All Star appearance which led to us spending 40 – 54 million on K-rod which led us to giving Boston the 19th and 39th highest rated amateurs in the 2010 draft along with Wagner and Vargas and Smith led us to a known to be injured JJ Putz.
When you think about it it this off season didn’t just lead to the implosion of the bull pen, it led to the implosion of the entire team.
Well, Willie wasn’t totally blameless for the following futility, but ya, he can’t be crucified over the bullpen problems. He worked with what he had, which was uh…less than stellar.
Donel, Take away Hernandez, Oliver, Sanchez and Bradford and replace them with Moto, Schowenweiss, Smith, Sele and Sosa then lose Burgos and Bell and have Wagner blow three games before heading off to the DL at the end of the season and tell me who could have pulled it out?
Randolph tried everyone but anyone decent had left the year before and if your not going to address the age at starting pitcher then you better upgrade the pen. Omar didn’t. He made it worse. A lot worse. And then he drafted for the pen in order to get quick cheap help and they washed out, every single one of them.
Like I said, Willie did what he could. I still have some issues with how he ran the team, but bullpen personnel was not his fault.
Cannot disagree ’62.
after the last couple of years, I can answer this question with 2 words.
a Clue.