There Is No Winning…

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• Mr North Jersey January 12, 2011 at 1:04 pm

  well said
• Tommy2cat January 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm

  Beyond issuing bad contracts, the new Met Brass has turned its focus inward and providing farmhands with a legitimate opportunity to make the major league roster. Its a shift in philosophy long overdue and one which provides proper incentive to those in the Met minor league system.

  I expect new talent from within the system to emerge by virtue of having a fair opportunity to compete for a spot on the major league roster. Personally, I find this period quite refreshing as the disproportionate contracts peddled by Omar recede into the sunset. Bon voyage!!!

  I believe that Mr. Alderson is directing the franchise due north to success. I am enjoying this part of it throroughly.
  • t agee January 13, 2011 at 1:03 am

    So am I Tommy2cat. One thing I am particularly interested in seeing is the drafting of big hitting position players.

    For years we have been drafting pitchers pitchers pitchers with our highest picks (when we have any) This is backwards. Pitchers get injured or just flat out bust 3 times more often than hitters. No one should know this better than us.

    Pitchers also hit their peak around 30, position players around 27. Position players also have better agility, quickness and speed in order to defend their positions better at a younger age and they run the bases better too.

    We have had many positions on the field filled with numerous expensive older free agents and between injuries and under performance we never wind up with any kind of a coherent line up or roster.

    Position player prospects can frequently be traded for pitching AFTER it has made it up here, AFTER arm/shoulder/elbow problems have been corrected. A 30 year old pitcher KNOWS how to pitch.

    Pitchers also are more independent than position players. Bring in a new pitcher is nothing compared to bringing in a new 2B or SS.

    Lastly, we seem to draft a lot of middle infield or CF types with the idea that if they don’t stick, they could always play in the corners. Understandable philosophy but I would much prefer that we draft guys who hit the s**t out of the ball for LF and RF, 3B and 1B. Forget this idea that if he doesn’t stick at SS we could move him to 3B. Draft a third basemen who hits LIKE a third basemen. Draft a RFer who HITS like a RFer, not a CFer who had to be moved over because he outgrew CF.

    Maybe then we might actually get a RFer. Face it 197 RFers in 50 years is a pretty spotty record. The Yankees haven’t even had that many in 110 years. How bout we get one for a change?
• The Coop January 12, 2011 at 1:15 pm

  Very well said. This is the big picture we all need to look at. I’ve been analyzing a lot of the finances of the team, what’s available anyway and what’s being speculated. One of the biggest eyesores is the Bonilla deferred payment plan, but Kris Benson ALSO had one (and he was TRADED from the Mets – I wonder if it had to do with his injuries). Also,it makes me wonder how many of these backloaded vesting option/deferred payment plans there on behind the scenes (I’m guessing Jason Bay might have been one as well, just a hunch I have no back up) is prohibiting Alderson now, and if that’s the case he’s making the right move by standing pat for NOW. As for Perez and Castillo – if they had a deferred payment option, I say cut them immediately!!!
• Harry C January 12, 2011 at 1:23 pm

  I think you have it wrong. The bitching has to do more with not signings by themselves, but doing nothing at all and secondly the attitude that 2011 doesn’t mean a thing to these guys. They don’t have the guts to make a move to start the rbuilding process and they sure don’t think this team can win as if they did they would do something to help it. OI think you will see Citypark looking like Shea Stasdium in the late 70′s as the Mets return to their status as irrel;evant in the Summer months in NYC. How many times we gonn ahear about the 60 il in ’12. And why don;t they tell us how many holes they eill have to fill with that 60 mil. SS, CF, Closer, Starter or two or three, 2nd Base, They ain’t filling the holes with 60 mil. They have been throwing BS over the fanbase and except for a few who buy it, the rest will be sitting home saving their money for the miracle in 12, just like the Wilpons and Sandy claim theyt are doing.
  • alwaysnextyear January 12, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    still beating this drum? You honestly believe the FO just does not care if they win or lose, so they can’t be bothered to “do anything”?

    first of all, they are doing things, systematically filling in the margins of the roster. Most likely, next domino is another SP.

    and they are low price options because they are back of the rotation SPs, BP arms, or bench guys. They normally do not (and should not) get giant contracts.

    quite simply, the big signings were ALREADY made by omar. Payroll is loaded up, and the team has at least 6 highly paid “stars”. That is 25% of a roster. So yeah, the moves left are for the filler parts, and hopefully Sandy does a better job at this, because it made a huge difference in 2007 and 2008.

    you also seem hung up on this rebuilding or not idea. That was never a part of any stated or rumored plan, and makes no sense for the Mets, given the age and contract status of the core talent. It does make perfect sense to let the team shake out thru ST, to see if it looks like enough guys are healthy and primed to rebound to make a run at the WC.

    If not, come mid season, they will decide to trade or not guys like Beltran (much lower shot Reyes) to get some more prospect talent back. It does not, however, make any sense to start trying to dump them now, if for no other reason, you won’t get anything back for Beltran (the only realistic trade option for “rebuilding”.

    also, DW and Reyes are young, just entering their prime. These are guys you rebuild around, not dump for potential prospects. Now Bay, if you could move him, I would be all for it, but that would be a win now and in the future move (not rebuilding) since you can replace his “production”.

    IMO it is just too early to write off 2011 and start dumping everyone for pennies on the dollar.
    • Chris January 12, 2011 at 4:05 pm

      Harry’s gonna feel very very stupid, very soon. I can’t wait.
  • Donal January 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    “And why don;t they tell us how many holes they eill have to fill with that 60 mil. SS, CF, Closer, Starter or two or three, 2nd Base, ”

    Probably because they really won’t know until this season plays out.

    Santana may be healthy for the start of 2012. Pelf and Dickey may continue to be solid foundations. Niese will probably be able to handle a full season workload and Meijia should be major league ready. sure, that requires a lot of good luck, but that there is a pretty good starting 5. Hell, maybe Capuano finds his former self and the Mets decide to keep him for another 2 or 3 years.

    Murphy or Emaus may turn out to be a respectable 2B. Maybe Hernandez will work there. Maybe a full year starting in the minors will get Tejada ready for the big club in 2012.

    Maybe Capt Kirk, Duda, Pridie or Martinez will be major league ready for corner outfield by 2012.

    If they do trade Beltran this season, they will probably bring back a near-major league ready prospect.

    Also, we really don’t know who will be on the market come December. We know who is set to be free agents, but a lot can happen.

    The Mets will have to see what they realyl have, where they need to fill a hole and what is avaialble. Unti lthen, it’s just silly to demand to know what will happen with the supposed $60 million coming off the books.
    • Chris January 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm

      well Harry is a silly silly dude. he will soon learn.
      • Harry C January 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm

        So chris, I guess PS 89 was closed so you spent all day trying to show that you were as stupid as Hitman. You lose. He made fun of a person’s name. At least you poorly attempted to make fun of someone who could fire back at your hapless effort. I’apm sorry maybe school will be closed again tomorrow. Keep up the effort and if you promise to be a cheap sign Sandy will make you a ball boy/girl next year. Good luck.
    • Harry C January 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm

      Donal, you are correct.; here are scores of maybes which proves that Sandy Alderson is throwing bull at the Met fan when he keeps bringing up the fact that he can’t make a m ove until 2012. He could have 60 million to spend and not a player to buy with it. That’s why sitting on your duff for a year in professional sports is unacceptable and is a losing strategy. Thanks for proving my point so well. Now as for your list of maybes don’t go adding probable because if “they” don’t know what will need to be filled you sure as heck don’t have a clue of what they will “probably” get for Beltran. The Mets didn’t have to wait a year to do something. GMs thruout baseball history have torn down teams without sleeping for a year. They have just spread the propganda and some have bought it. Fine. It our choice. You buy it fine, I don’t. Mets do good I’m pleasnatly surprised. Mets suck you are a bitter Met fan. I hope you are right.
      • Donal January 12, 2011 at 7:22 pm

        So, you just refuse to deal in facts. OK. Fair enough. Not a whole lot I can do to combat that.

        If you refuse to acknowledge that there have been moves, that is your prerogative. If you simply ignore the repeated times people have asked you to name the players the Mets should be aggressively pursuing, I guess that would be one way to feel better about your position. If you want to claim a team with a $140 million+ payroll is being cheap, I guess I can see how that would keep you secure in your irrational hatred of Alderson.

        And I’ve been a bitter Mets fan for about 3 years now. In fact, I’d say my fandom has been bitter a lot longer than its been joyous. What you are basically telling me is that the absolute worse Alderson can do is maintain the status quo.
      • t agee January 12, 2011 at 9:12 pm

        Harry, Too many expensive moving parts on this team right now plus the new guy hasn’t even seen anyone play, no help from below, this year (as usual) and 140m already committed. Not a year to add, a year to subtract.

        Even though we disagree on the different approach you have to admit the sign everyone thing wasn’t working out too well.

        I appreciate the wit though, especially after digging out all day.
      • Da Madd Genius January 13, 2011 at 12:51 pm

        I won’t get into name calling and such, but I definitely agree with Harry. There’s no reason for a major market ball club to stand pat. I acknowledge marginal signings. But those signings are not good enough to satisfy me when there are better options that are willing to take reasonable offers. Perhaps Young will sign with us and I’ll feel a bit better. But right now I agree that Mets are stuck between two worlds. They stand pat with a team that doesn’t look at all capable of making the playoffs, but also stay in a holding pattern not making a deal or two to rebuild. They also insult hard working players and their fan base every day by keeping Perez and Castillo on the roster, players who no matter which direction they go have no place on the club. I would add that the source of this problem seems to be an inability to spend more on the current team, yet I continually hear denials from the FO and excuses from other members of this community. But the Yanks, Sox, & Angels are all saddled with bad contracts as well. Even the Phils have Ibanez’ albatross. Yet they field competitive teams each year. Even when they miss the dance, they get back on the horse and try again. I know I speak only for myself when I say I was satisfied with what the FO did in 07-10 going into the season. At least they tried to put a competitive playoff worthy club on the field. This new edition of the Mets, I can’t say that. And I wonder how anyone else could. Like Harry says, if you’re satisfied with a team stuck in neutral, so be it. I’m certainly not, and they won’t be getting a cent of my money if they don’t show a commitment to winning.
        • Donal January 13, 2011 at 1:32 pm

          The Yankees, BoSox, and Phillies can eat a mistake like Ibanez or Burnette because their other big money moves have paid off and they maintained quality talent in their minor leagues that could be promoted and consistently produce.

          The Mets are not in that situation. They are saddled with big money deals that did not pan out and their minor league system is unable to fill all of the holes in the big club.

          And thats the thing that bugged me most about Omar. He came in billed as some great talent Evaluator and Super Scout thats going to build a viable contender for years to come. He goes on to conduct terrible drafts and depelete what little talent the team had on the farm through bad trades and poor developement.
          • Sean Kenny January 13, 2011 at 2:04 pm

            It is a sense of sunk-costs. In both time, and money. If they cut Ollie, that 12 million dollars doesn’t come back to the payroll and they have to fill his position either from the minor leagues or by signing another player, which raises his cost.

            To a lesser extent, its also wanting to get value from something. The Mets can’t trade Castillo easily because most MLB clubs know that the Mets don’t want him. So they will be patient, and unless by some miracle he actually is declared the starting 2B, wait until the Mets cut him and pay the portion of his salary they have to.

            I’d love if they cut Ollie and Luis, and cutting Luis doesn’t really hurt much because there are some options at 2B, and they may only be marginally better, but unlike Luis they have upside. Ollie however is the ultimate release him and lose all your money deal.

            Pitchers don’t get cut with big contracts, hitters do. Because they are more easily replaceable. Sheffield had 14 million eaten. GMJ had 22 million PAID OFF for the Mets to take him.
          • Bayonne Mets Fan January 13, 2011 at 2:09 pm

            Isn’t the Mets farm system rated somewhere in the middle of the pack? They have some nice young talent coming up. It’s not depleted.
            • Mr North Jersey January 13, 2011 at 2:10 pm

              Agreed but also many of the prospects are in the lower levels.
            • Sean Kenny January 13, 2011 at 2:26 pm

              Yeah, most projection is on players who are consistently injured or haven’t produced above Double-A. Almost all the outfielders in their system project the same way. Mid-Power projection, long swings, high-k. corner outfielders. And a few position-less guys.

              Havens, F.Mart, Duda are pretty much the closest farm prospects to the MLB.
              • Bayonne Mets Fan January 13, 2011 at 3:18 pm

                What about Ike Davis? What about Mejia, Gee, & Niese? First we have a poster who doesn’t include him in the Mets top 3 surprises from 2010, now somebody doesn’t include him as a successful farm prospect. Also wasn’t Pelfrey drafted under Omar’s watch? Isn’t the jury out on Thole also?

                Also don’t we have to see how Ruben Tejada, Daryl Ceciliani, Cory Vaughn. I know the last 2 are in A but they show very good promise. That’s all I can think of for now.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 3:42 pm

                You can point to the exceptions if you want but speaking strictly of pitchers drafted in the ist or 2nd round how about Humber, Durkin, Kunz, Isringhausen, Peterson, Vineyard, Wilson, Pulsipher, Holt, Moviel, Rustich, Mulvey, Heilman, Trabor, Keppel. Not all of these were Omar of course but since 2000 the only decent on field production in a Met uniform came from Pelfrey and Niese and Omar got rid of the guy responsible for drafting them (along with Thole and Parnell) immediately after the draft.

                He also got rid of, or allowed to go to the Marlins, our best international scout. Edy Toledo who signed among others Alfonzo, Mora, Ordonez, and Reyes.

                He also gave away numerous 1st and 2nd round picks so the real question is the same as the old question. Where is our right fielder? Where is our second basemen? Where is our closer that we don’t have to pay 10 – 12 million dollars for? Where is our LFer that we don’t have to pay 80 million dollars to after paying 2 other expensive free agents to man that exact same position in the last dozen years.

                Face it, the only positions we haven’t had to scramble around for since Omar got here (and before he got here) are SS and 3B. Every other position it’s La Duca, Schneider, Castro, Santos, Blanco, Barajas, Mentkevage, Delgado, Murphy, Jacobs, Valentin, A Hernandez, Arias, A. Reyes, Castillo, Tejada and that’s just the infield.
              • Mr North Jersey January 13, 2011 at 3:52 pm

                I am not following Bayonne? Are you now suggesting that the Mets have enough talent that they can build from within? Thereby Alderson should not be going outside the organization to fill holes?

                Help me understand.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 4:28 pm

                MNJ, You won’t get a response from Bayonne on this topic because of his distaste for any new thinking has caused a revisionist history in him in regard to the previous regime.

                Anything they did or didn’t do was either good or understandable in the light of other occurrences regardless of how foreseeable they might have been.

                Anything that Alderson does or doesn’t do is wrong.

                Anyone that supports the new administration or even just adopts a wait and see attitude is a lemming, blindly following their leader while he continues to insist that his swami put together a “pretty good team.” This despite the fact that he ran up the payroll, sacrificed the future in order to win now, left us with numerous bad contract for useless players, got us to the post season once in 6 years, (slightly above NY Met avg) while having unlimited resources in which to do it with and in the end up, surrounded our “core” with 8 roster spots that were filled with players that shouldn’t even have been in the Majors and he did this in the 5th and 6th years of his administration. I would love to know what his ideas would have been for the 7th year?

                Clearly Bayonne believes that Omar’s results will outshine Alderson’s. Time will tell but I’ll bet the number of people who feel like Bayonne does would fit in a phone booth.
              • Mr North Jersey January 13, 2011 at 4:33 pm

                The part where you said “Anything that Alderson does or doesn’t do is wrong.” really does seem like that is Bayonne’s take on things.

                No matter what Alderson does he seem angry at his decision. I wonder of Alderson releases Castillo what will he say? Will he find fault with that decision as well?

                I wonder.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 5:43 pm

                Look MNJ, Anything that Alderson does or doesn’t do is going to be met with derision by Bayonne simply, only and totally for one reason and one reason only. We know what that reason is.

                I only know a few sabermetric stats but as I see it, they seek to put a value on things that help or hurt your chances of winning.

                One thing the prior regime was especially guilty of was poor valuation but the most egregious mistakes were in the only looking at the best case scenario instead of looking at all the possible outcomes. Probable, possible AND best case.

                Saddling our franchise with bad contracts, rushing ill prepared prospects, giving away numerous high draft choices, back loading contracts so we have to pay more later while getting less now. The whole “plan” was almost guaranteed to fail right from the beginning. The Yankees had already proven the folly of this approach from 1980 – 1995 when a more sane long term and patient approach was instituted by Gene Michael.

                Gone were the days of getting the worst years of a players career and paying him the most. Michael did trade some of his minor leaguers like Bobby Kelly but he targeted a Paul O’Neil. He didn’t trade a Jay Buhner for a Ken Phelps.

                He built up a previously under appreciated farm system and brought up guys like Jeter, Posada, Williams, Petitie, Rivera, Mendoza, Leyritz and added an O’Neil, Martinez, Knoblach and Brosious. That was a real team with a plan with well conceived rosters and capable back ups that Won 4 world Series and conceivably could have won 3 others. In other words they competed for a World Series every single year from 1996 – the present.

                It probably was not a coincidence that the Yankee owner was suspended during the early years of this buildup.

                Even if we had won the World Series in 2006, how long do you think we would have continued to compete for another one? La Duca (34) Delgado (34) Valentin (36) Floyd (33) Franco (47) Green (33) Glavine (40) Trachsel (35) El_Duque (40?) Oliver (35) Pedro (34) Wagner (34) Hernandez (41) Moto (32)

                The way this team was put together was for one and done. Omar kept adding to it, doubling down on his investment, losing and doubling down again. Finally he was left with just a couple of poker chips left and had to sparingly use them while rounding out the 25 with Jacobs, Cora, Cattalanotto, Reed, GMJ, Sullivan, Shefield, Hessman, Arias, Feliciano, ill prepared prospects like Murphy, Mejia and Tejada and add them to monumental blunders of Castillo and Perez and then instead of admitting those mistakes doubling down yet again and finally busting with Bay

                There were 2 things that Omar knew when he took the job. #1 The farm system was barren and #2 The steroid era was over.

                The fact that those two issues were left out of his decision making process is why we will undoubtably be watching Boof Bonser this year. Thanks again Omar.

                I for one am glad that the error of only looking at the best possible scenario is over and if someone happens to look at a few stats in which to more accurately gauge the benefits (and pitfalls) of potential decisions that can only advance the cause.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 6:18 pm

                MNJ, If Alderson released Castillo and Perez Bayonne would say he should have done it before, and he would have been right, except that it should have been Omar admitting his mistake and getting rid of those two.

                This time last year there was a pitcher who had spent the previous few years working under Dave Duncan and pitching really well. Joel Pinero an extreme GB pitcher who probably could have shown Pelfrey a thing or two signed for 2 years 16 million with LAA. Oliver could have competed with pinero in ST and been dropped at the end of March. Failing that, he SHOULD have been dropped after refusing to give up his roster spot rather than be allowed to poisin the club house with his me first attitude. Good example for the kids too by the way.

                Castillo could have been provided with competition in the form of Kelly Johnson or Felipe Lopez and cut at the end of ST.

                That would have sent a message about unproductivity.

                Unfortunately, Omar was still in his best case scenario thinking that clubbing yet another soon to be in decline free agent would solve all our woes did neither.

                But why admit your mistake and subtract useless players in order to improve your team?

                Hold on to them, hope for the best and palm them off on the next guy if it doesn’t work out.

                And they say Alderson’s not doing anything.
              • XtreemIcon January 13, 2011 at 6:53 pm

                Did I see Kelly Johnson’s name?
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 7:01 pm

                Yes you did X.
              • Vinny B January 13, 2011 at 7:44 pm

                Agee,

                You keep talking about how bad our backups were. You want to know why they were bad? because they are BACKUPS. If they were any good they wouldn’t be backups to begin with. There’s a reason why they aren’t starting. And some of those guys like Hessman, were backing up the backups. You expect those guys to be any good?

                Sheffield was actually pretty good for us in 09. Imagine how good our lineup would have been with Delgado, Beltran, Reyes, all healthy and Sheffield hitting they way he did? Man, that would have been an awesome lineup.

                casstillo had a MUCH better year than kelly Johnson in 09. look it up. At that time the move would have made little sense.
              • Vinny B January 13, 2011 at 7:51 pm

                And what about Alderson’s guys? Hu, Emaus? are they any better than Omar’s guys? I doubt it.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 8:04 pm

                Vinny, No one expects your backups to be better than your starters. What is expected is to have a well conceived roster where your backups can actually be a positive for your team.

                For instance backing Alou up with Endy was very well conceived, they complimented each other. One was a great RH hitter with no range, the other was a great defensive player with speed to spare. Willie double switched Endy in for the pitcher in the 7th 8th or 9th inning and got the leadoff type guy getting on and then playing late inning D. That was very effective.

                We got Shefield because the Tigers didn’t want him anymore, either did any team in the AL, neither did any team that finished below us in 2008 in the NL. He didn’t compliment Murphy in LF. True he hit from the other side but he couldn’t play in the field and that’s what we needed there if the Murphy experiment was going to have a chance.

                To give a rookie a starting job and then bring in a future HOF candidate to back him up who cannot help cover up his weakness is not the definition of a well conceived roster.

                When would be the best time to give Reyes a rest with Cora at backup? Never. Three months after Beltran had surgery and 10 months after he first got hurt Omar backed Beltran up with someone else’s reject.

                Murphy at 1B? Looked OK in 2009 and your going to go with him cause your counting pennies OK. That was the plan but your backup to Murphy is someone way worse at D who hits from the same side and again, someone nobody else even wanted. Not even the Royals.

                The last couple of years it was just about getting the cheapest possible candidate instead of the best bench possible and where it wasn’t a total cheap out it was a gross overpay.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm

                And a DH? In the NL? When your already down a roster spot because of Ollie? I don’t know how that roster spot can be defended.

                Sullivan, Feliciano, Hessman were AAA guys fair enough. Arias was a salary dump for Francouer but the bench severely limited what few options Manuel had.

                Usually in ST you’ll hear managers talk about wanting to get AB’s for their bench during the regular season, with our bench the last two years that’s the last thing that anyone wanted.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 8:18 pm

                Vinny, At the very least Hu and Emaus will cost 7 million dollars less than Castillo and Cora. Add that to the 2Mil we had to pay GMJ, 4 Mil to Francouer, add it all up and it would pay a year of a pretty decent starting pitcher. Hu I’ve read is a very good defender which is where it begins for a backup MIer and still has the potential to develop and Emaus? Well really how could he be worse?
              • Vinny B January 14, 2011 at 3:06 pm

                Agee,

                of course nobody expects you’re backups to be as good as you’re starters…..BUT when you lose three of you’re 4 best players, Delgado, Beltran, and Reyes and have to replace them with backups, you’re going to do bad – I don’t care who Omar signed to back them up, backups are not going to come close to those guys production.

                Also, Hu, and Emaus do have good minor league stats but so do Mike Hessman, and Chris Carter. How do you know how they will do against major league picthing? They could be just like hessman and carter – can hit against minor leaguers but can’t hit major leaguers.
              • t agee January 14, 2011 at 3:22 pm

                Vinny,

                If we hadn’t gotten rid of so many high draft choices through the years and done even a below, rather than putrid job of drafting when we did keep our picks, we would have been bringing up guys who were capable of playing up here.

                Maybe they would have made youthful type errors but they at least would have had the physical tools to be in the Majors AND they would have brought that youthful enthusiasm up here which would have been something GMJ, Shefield, Jacobs and Cattalonotto didn’t and couldn’t and Mejia and Tejada were not able to because they couldn’t yet contribute up here.

                The Red Sox lost guys left and right but still won 89 games in the AL East.

                Omar wasn’t even concerned with backing up first base. He traded away a AAA first basemen (Mike Carp) who at least had some future unlike Jacobs and he traded away a great defensive LFer in the same trade we needed to back up Murphy in LF and he did it for a relief pitcher everyone knew had a bad elbow. What kind of a plan is that? For 2 Million and a vesting option we should have had Ozzie Smith as a back up MIer not Alex Cora. With 10 months to work on backing Beltran up after his initial injury GMJ was the plan? C’mon Vinny, you would have found a better solution and so could have anyone else.
              • Vinny B January 14, 2011 at 4:51 pm

                The Redsox still had Beltre, Victor Martinez, Ortiz, Drew, Lester, Bucholz, papelbon, Lackey, and Bard all healthy. Wright was the only one of our good players was healthy and he had the worst year of his career. Also the players on the redsox that were hurt, weren’t out as long as the Mets guys. Youk played 102 games, Pedrioa played 75, while the Mets had Delgado and reyes only playing 62 games COMBINED.

                GMJ wasn’t the backup plan, Pagan was the backup plan. GMJ backuped Pagan. And if I remeber correctly GMJ was the ONLY OF available that could play all 3 OF postions.

                Our first base options for 2010 were Murphy Davis, carter and Jacobs. It wasn’t just ONLY Jacobs. You make it seem like jacobs was the only backup plan we had that’s not true.

                bad drafts? what about Pelfery, Niese, Thole, Davis, Parnell, Murphy, Gee, all of them could have BIG roles on the team this year. And even if we did have better drafts NONE of them would have been able to replace Delgado, Beltran, and Reyes.
            • t agee January 13, 2011 at 3:20 pm

              The Met Farm System was just ranked 25th by John Sickles and the Farm Director, Rudy Terrases, from Oct 2005 – Jan 2011 ranked 30th (last) by Baseball America.

              One thing we have been doing for years is drafting pitchers with our high draft choices, this despite the fact that pitchers more frequently wash out by 3-1 compared to hitters. They also hit their primes at a later age (30 compared to 27) just about the time they are about to become available in a trade or as a free agent and after the one’s who have already washed out or gotten injured have been weeded out.

              Position players play their best defense and run the bases much better at 23-30 than they do at 30-37.

              Pitchers also operate more independently than position players.

              Many of the players we have drafted or signed through international free agency are “middle” players. Middle players 2B,SS CF are highly valuable since they are much rarer than 1B, 3B, RF and LF, with the idea that if they outgrow the middle they are always candidates to move to the corner but in reality this gives us a RFer who hits like a CFer and that is why we have had to sign 3 expensive free agents to play LF (and try a rookie infielder there) in the last dozen years and why we have had 197 different right fielders in 50 years while the Yankees have had less than that in 110.

              Drafting corner position players that hit like corner position players should be job #1. Drafting middle players that actually project to play in the middle should be job #2. Drafting catchers should be job #3 and drafting lower and in later rounds and going over slot for pitchers should be job #4.

              Using a deep and talented pool of position players to obtain the Halliday’s and Lee’s AFTER they have learned to pitch AND have avoided busting and injury along with a free agent ace or two would give us the best of both worlds. Talented starters at every position that hit, field and run the bases, pitchers who know how to pitch, bench and AAA depth and prospects to pick up the big time ace AND have them ALL in their prime at the same time.
              • Bayonne Mets Fan January 13, 2011 at 3:23 pm

                Didn’t Sandy Alderson say during his press conference the Mets farm was in the middle of the pack? I think he did.
              • t agee January 13, 2011 at 3:48 pm

                Yeah that’s what he said. He wasn’t throwing anyone under the bus. I just stated the objective analysis of independent proffesionals and their opinion.

                I follow the draft, IFA signings, and the farm system as much as one can but you can see the results for yourself throughout numerous different GM’s over the last 25 years.

                What do you think is the reason we have signed or traded for so many free agent position players over the last 25 years?
          • t agee January 13, 2011 at 2:50 pm

            The Yankees BoSox and Phillies didn’t make enough bad trades and free agent signings to cause them to crash because they have numerous players that they have signed as amateurs from the draft or IFA.

            Posada, Jeter, Rivera, Petite, Gardiner, Hughes, Chamberlain all not only gave the FO 6 years at no risk in which to evaluate these guys, they afforded the front office in house solutions that PREVENTED them from making long term mistakes.

            Considering how many long term mistakes the Yankees did make, having 7 guys on the roster that you know or are getting to know with no risky commitment at all is huge. How many MORE mistakes would they have made had it not been for those guys? How many more Contreas’, Irabu, Wright, Pavano, Johnson, Vazquez, the Japanese guy ect would have been hamstringing the Yankees right now?

            Every team has it’s breaking point, even the Yankees wouldn’t have been able to survive 6 or 7 MORE bad expensive long term contracts.

            Rollins, Utley, Howard, Hamels, wise non tenders like Werth, Rule 5′s like Victorrino, non huge FA deals like Ruiz and Polanco and having the farm to bring up Brown and trade for Halliday, Oswalt and in 2009 Lee and SUBTRACTING established players off the Major league roster for prospects or draft choices like Abreu, Schilling, Rolen and Burrell helped them to have so much depth.

            Boston has made a science of getting a players a year or two or even a month before free agency (Beltre, Bay, V. Martinez, Billy Wagner and Drew next year) and not only getting good production from them but also getting 2 highly thought of amateurs in June to add to a deep and talented farm. That’s how they survived a more injury ridden 2010 then we had in 2009. Their farm kept them alive. 89 wins in the AL East compared to our 71 in the NL East in ’09. That’s also how they obtained Adrian Gonzalez.

            Pedroia, Lowrie, Youklis, Ellsbury, Bukholtz, Lester, Bard, Paplebon.

            Most teams don’t have the seemingly unlimited ability to overcome expensive mistakes that the Yankees do. The Phillies and BoSox are good examples of teams that ARE competing with the Yankees but not doing it by paying top dollar at every spot on the roster. Sure their are the Crawfords, Lee’s, Lackey’s, Halliday’s but those are the exception.

            For every expensive older position player Boston and Philly have, they have 3 or 4 guys they developed themselves and another guy or two obtained by their farm.

            I too believed that 5, 6 and 7 years after Omar arrived here we would have a farm system brimming over with talent but when you give away your high draft choices almost every year, draft for quick help when you do keep them, and give away other picks when you easily could have kept them, your gonna crash.

            Boston has had 17 first or supplementary picks in the last 5 years. They’ll have another 3 this year. That’s one reason they were talking to Adrian Gonzalez while we were talking to Boof Bonser.
• Mr North Jersey January 13, 2011 at 8:10 pm

  [off topic]

  LoL whatever happened to the gamewinning rbi statistic?

  Now that was an absurd stat. LoL