19
2011
Jose Reyes Says No Contract Talks After Season Starts
An article by Hojo's Mojo
Jose Reyes met with reporters after the Citi Field Kids event and Adam Rubin of ESPN New York posted a great video of Reyes who discusses a variety of things, most importantly that he has no intention of negotiating any deal with the Mets during the regular season.
Reyes also discussed the possibility of being traded before the Trade Deadline.
Alderson has gone on record that he would not explore any contract talks with Jose Reyes before the start of the season. Given what both sides have said, it does look like Reyes is headed toward free agency no matter what.
The question is will he still be a Met afterward?
I never actually conceived of seeing Jose Reyes playing for any other team but the Mets. Of course I want to see Reyes go out and have the best season of his career. I’m talking .315 – 20 HR – 120 RS – 85 RBI – 60 SB.
But now I’m fearful that if he does produce like that, it may also be his ticket out of New York, as I sense a reluctance by Alderson to be willing to give into what it would take to keep Jose Reyes a Met in both years and dollars.
Worse yet, I don’t even know what the contingency plan would be to replace Reyes if he did sign with another team. Do we have anyone even half as productive offensively to replace him, and would that person be able to bat leadoff as well?
About the Author: Rob Johnson
134 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
MMO Mets Chat
Recent Comments
- Sach: on Mateo Had Tommy John Surgery This Week: Michael Fulmar recently tweeted about 4 hours...
- BadBadLeroyBrown: on Marcum Can’t Find Win Column As Mets Fall To Braves 5-3: Exactly they should pull the plug on...
- TexasGusCC: on Marcum Can’t Find Win Column As Mets Fall To Braves 5-3: No one brought up how the Braves...
- BadBadLeroyBrown: on Marcum Can’t Find Win Column As Mets Fall To Braves 5-3: Smh...yeah I heard it.... He had the audacity...
- Hank: on Marcum Can’t Find Win Column As Mets Fall To Braves 5-3: In other news, how did we miss...
Latest From Mets Minors
Check Out These Great MLB Links!
Photographs From Gordon Donovan
Fans Follow Us On Twitter!
1334 Fans Like Us On Facebook!
2341 Fans Read Our Feed!
1702 Fans Subscribe via Daily Email!
if reyes signs with the red sox, i’m sorry guys, but i’m rooting for them.
Weird thing to say…guess you cheer for the name on the back of the jersey and not the front.
i really wanted the mets to go after a-gon and crawford, and really want them to keep reyes. i don’t really think i could not root for the mets, but if all of those guys are on boston, i’m going to be rooting for them for sure.
Considering the name I have chosen, I find it hard to see my favorite team without my favorite player. I have followed Reyes since we signed him. The Mets would still be my team, but I would become a much bigger fan of whatever team Reyes plays for.
Did you guys start rooting for the Dodgers when Strawberry signed with them? Or the Reds when Seaver was traded to them? Or more recently, the Padres when Piazza went there? Players leave, hardly anyone stays with one team anymore. I love Reyes, but I’m certainly not going to cheer for his new team if he leaves…I would hope he does well, but I would still root for the Mets to win and every other team to lose. Are you guys New York Mets fans or just Reyes fans?
no and no. straw was a mess and piazza was done by the time they left.
reyes would be one of about 5 sox that i wish were mets, so i’d probably root for them after the mets. 1 or 2 guys wouldn’t do it, though.
I would hate to see Reyes leave after this season, he is my favorite Met. However, if he is healthy, he is going to demand a Crawford-esque contract…therefore, the Mets might not be able/willing to bring him back. Both LA teams could use a SS, so could Boston…oh yeah, and Rollins will be a FA after 2011…could you imagine Reyes as a Phillie, he does hit great in their stadium. Just re-sign him now, Sandy!
Good for Reyes, right from the get go this new Front Office didn’t give him respect.
bayonne, you are 100% correct
What are you talking about? What did or didn’t they do? The guy has hardly played in two years?
You really are losing it.
I would say the same to you but you can’t lose what you never had.
How did this organization not do right by Reyes since taking over?
while i don’t buy in to the ‘disrespected’ talk, i think they should have at least talked an extension. if rickie weeks can talk extension with milwaukee, then jose reyes ought to be able to.
just saying “let’s see how you do this year and then we’ll talk” is the kind of stuff i’d expect pagan or dickey to hear, not reyes.
I agree that they should have at least started the discussions. Even if they intended to wait a bit, it is a sign or respect for the longest tendered Met. And who knows, maybe they would have asked for something reasonable!
well, they might have before Crawford signed his monster deal.
i think he played 130 games last year. and the 30 games he missed coincided with the worst stretches the team had. and we know about 2009.
i think he’s underrated and can be extended relatively cheaply. plus there are at least 4 big budget teams looking for a SS.
losing beltran is one thing, losing a 27 year old all star SS because you’ve seen him tear a hammy is another.
Don’t you think you are jumping the gun here? Seems like some are in full panic mode over nothing.
He is capable of being one of the most exciting players in the game. His last 2 years have not been good, by his own admission.
Waiting to see is the right way to go. In addition, he said he didn’t want to negotiate, but don’t think for one second if Alderson went to him in once the season starts and he’s on fire, that he wouldn’t change his mind and go ahead with negotiations.
i might be jumping the gun, but i’ve been watching this play out for a couple of weeks, and i just think signing him is a lay-up.
i guarantee you that even if he did poorly, some team would trade for him. it’s not like a pitcher, where guys just lose it like zito or ollie. position players are a little more resilient than that, aren’t they ? i don’t easily recall too many all star SS just falling off of the earth at 28, but maybe i’m wrong there.
By seeing if he has actually learned something the last few years? To make sure his health issues aren’t going to be a major hindrance this year?
Or by expecting a little loyalty out of Reyes?
Why the need to invent drama?
i understand your point, but if he does come back to 2007 form, he is gone. we won’t outbid boston and anaheim for him, and philly may be in that mix also.
it’s a risk for sure, but i personally wouldn’t characterize him as injury plagued.
And if he gets off to a fast start, the FO maybe be able to convince him to resign during the season, just like his last contract extension.
Stop looking for drama and reasons to hate Alderson before the season has even started. It just looks petty.
you’re confusing me for other people who hate sandy. I was happy with the choice and i’ve been about 50/50 on his moves so far.
i liked the young signing and passing on feliciano. i kind of liked takahashi, not quite sold on collins, and i really wish they would extend reyes.
if reyes does have a good year and decides to sign with someone else, then i’ll start hating.
I disagree. Look at the guy. New York is home to hime. We gave him the chance. All true Mets fans love him. Reyes would give the Mets a hometown discount. I don’t ever see Reyes in a Philly uni
I agree and have been saying for year I wish Reyes would play SMARTER, be more aggressive stealing – stealing at the right spots. And he’s not the best at clutch hitting either but I still have faith in him and he’s one of the most dynamic and exciting players in the game. Don’t worry about his walks, sure you want him to walk more but that’s the way he is. He’s a leadoff hitter who’s a hacker and the Mets have won a WS with that type of leadoff hitter before. Besides, he leads off only once a game and is a tremendous gap hitter who would thrive in Citi Field, especially the cavernous Mo Zone. After his first AB as leadoff he can drive in runs the rest of the game.
I have a feeling Reyes style of play doesn’t work in the new “Organizational Philosophy”. And they’ll regret it. I’m glad Reyes took this stance.
Mookie wasn’t really the Met leadoff hitter in 1986. Dykstra was much more often. World Series too 5-2. When Mookie hurt his shoulder in 1985 and Lenny came up and Mookie saw how effective he was at getting OB HIS OB started going up but Lenny was the primary leadoff hitter that year and his OB was the reason.
His hitting was the reason, the fact that he walked a lot helped.
1986 Dykstra .295/377/445
Mookie .289/345/430
What do you think is the reason Dykstra was the main leadoff hitter? Platoon? Probably the LH hitter as you know gets more AB’s but still Mookie was a switch hitter.
More importantly what do you attribute Mookie’s sudden increase in OB% to, which coincidentally began at the same time as Dykstra’s arrival in the Majors?
Mookie’s OB%
1980 .325
1981 .317
1982 .314
1983 .300
1984 .308
1985 .331 * Dykstra called up in May
1986 .345
1987 .359
1988 .345
I have no idea why Mookie walked more when Lenny came around. Maybe because the platoon helped? Maybe he saw Lenny getting more playing time and decided to try and re-invent himself? maybe he noticed how the Backman/Teufel and Knight/Hojo platoons were working out too and it pushed him to change his approach, maybe when Davey Johnson came aboard and incorporated his platoon system Wilson can see leftys better than rightys…. I didn’t notice at that time and frankly didn’t care.
I just knew when Lenny came up they started the platoon
quite likely he was just better as a RH batter. Would really have to look at his splits, since once dykstra came along, his ABs as a lefty most likely went down.
I think you’re right,
Davey loved his platoons. I DO remember Hojo and Backman were awful from the right side – relatively speaking. So when Dykstra came up and platooned and Mookie batted from his natural side (I’m assuming righty was his natural side) more of course the numbers will be better.
RealIy interesting debate. I just looked at the splits and what surprised me most is that Mookie’s splits were just about even. That’s unusual. Usually switch hitters have a strong side and a weak side, but Mook was consistent from both sides. Maybe a little more power from the right side, but he wasn’t a power hitter so it wasn’t enough to make a significant difference.
It looks pretty simple. Lenny was better against righties and Mookie was better against lefties, so Lenny played more. Lenny started exactly 40 more games from the lead off spot than Mookie did. It was your run of the mill lefty/righty platoon.
Year fair enough, but why would Lenny have taken the majority of the leadoff AB’s away from an established leadoff hitter? Even when they played at the same time Lenny hit leadoff. Their hitting was essentially the same, only their OB% differed.
I’m not pressing the point to get into another chicken and egg debate. I’m pressing it because of your statement that the Mets won a World Series with a low OB% lead off hitter. That is not the case. The Mets won the World Series with a high OB% lead off hitter who was primarily Lenny Dykstra.
yes you are pressing the point,
Lenny and Mookie were 2 differnt types of hitters. Lenny walked a lot more than Mookie, Davey platooned them – they both led off a lot that season and there’s more righty pitchers then lefties so naturally he’ll bat more – notwithstanding being a very good hitter too.
I know where you’re trying to go with this.
They won the World Series, Mookie WIlson as a leadoff hitter and I used it in THAT context. Context is everything.
You’re trying to promote the OBP talk and you notice I’m saying walks instead of that because that’s how it was back then. You’re trying to make it sound like they won the WS because of a high OBP leadoff hitter and it’s MUCH MORE than that.
Lenny walked a lot yes, and that was good but it was a platoon and Lenny was exclusively a lefty so he played more cuz there’s more righty pitchers than lefy
Well one reason for it was Lenny was a Davey guy from his time in the Minors and Mookie was here long before Davey was!
If I remember correctly Lenny was a slightly better hitter than Mookie and more aggressive on the base paths.
Lenny would also go in hard to break up thre DP and Mookie never had that killer instinct.
Lenny was also (just slightly) a better fielder than Mookie.
All those are reasons Lenny got into games at the time.
Bayonne, Your statement that the Mets won a world Series before with that type of hacker at lead off is factually untrue. You can try to end the debate by waving the white flag if you want but I’m going to continue to point out that your statement is complete nonsense.
Mookie was above league average in OB after having been well below it his entire career. Lenny was well above league average at lead off. Those are facts.
As for your non facts, I do have a life, a great one, far better than you could believe. I also have the time and the inclination to point out where our favorite baseball team has gone wrong because I enjoy the Mets all summer long and I want to see them do well.
I also have the time and inclination to point out discrepencies and fallacies like you presented last night. Namely that the Mets have won a World Series with a lead off man that was a hacker. That was untrue in 1986, it is untrue today and will be untrue for all the tomorrow’s there will ever be.
The fact is the Mets got a HIGH OB out of their lead off spot. Wave the white flag without defending your position all you want. It doesn’t change a thing.
Metsie, Welcome back. We all want to know who you voted for at the Miss America Pagent. Any hints? Any phone numbers? and while it’s on our minds we’d all like to know how YOUR OB% was while you were mingling with all those beauties.
Hope you had a good time.
If you want to keep on going on and on and on with this all day then let’s do it.
Mookie’s on base percentage went up – AS I SAID BEFORE AND YOU ARE IGNORING – is because he stayed batting from his natural side in a platoon situation so naturally he would do better. How about leaving Lenny in facing lefties??????????? What would happen to his numbers if he faced lefties and played everyday – YOU HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THAT yet you moron.
MAYBE THE METS DON’T WIN THE WORLD SERIES IN 1986 IF LENNY PLAYED EVERYDAY AND THERE WAS NO MOOKIE! HAVE YOU EVEN GIVEN THAT A THOUGHT?
Also who was AT BAT during the 1986 World Series during the famous game 6??? MOOKE THE HACKER WAS!
What if it was Lenny Dykstra AB and he walked?????? and the next guy made out and we LOSE????
HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?
How am I waving the white flag in your IMAGINARY world????
I’ll ask the readers – Hey readers, have I waved the white flag? Has agee addressed all MY points. I don’t think he has.
In all my arguments with people here do I EVER say to anyone they are waving a white flag? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So that tells me about you.
The Mets won the 1986 World Series with Mookie Wilson as their leadoff batter that year.
Agee – ENOUGH – go get a life!!!!
OK Jackass, You want to respond to my correction of your revising history by calling me names? No problem.
You stated that the Mets won the World Series with a hacker as a leadoff hitter. That is completely untrue. Mookie by 1986 was no longer a hacker and the majority of lead off AB’s went to a player who had a WELL ABOVE average OB%.
Mookie, after being a hacker from his first days as a Major Leaguer in 1980 became an average OB% performer in 1985, in my opinion because of competition he received from a rookie who came up and got OB much higher than league average, and who wound up getting many more leadoff AB’s NOT because of the “platoon” but BECAUSE he got OB so much more. The “platoon followed the OB, not the other way around.
Secondly the game was already tied when Mookie hit the GB to 1B. With 2 out and a runner on 2B at Shea it was already advantage Mets when he did hit the GB.
Thirdly, Mookie batted 7th that game while Lenny batted leadoff.
Lastly, Mookie “the hacker” had a 9 pitch AB during the last AB of that game, hardly the Mookie of 1980 – 1984 which just goes to prove my point and disprove yours, that Mookie was a hacker the year the Mets won the World Series.
Now you can respond to these facts by twisting, spinning, name calling or by any other non fact supported method but it doesn’t change the facts one iota.
The Mets did not win the 1986 World Series with a hacker at leadoff. They won it with two leadoff hitters who got OB above league average, one by a little and one by a lot. Spin that.
you don’t have the sense enough to even consider there would be a different pitch selection if Lenny Dykstra was up instead of Mookie Wilson during that game 6.
In a very rare start for both them, yes Lenny stayed leadoff because A RIGHT HANDER WAS PITCHING – Clemens!
IF A LEFT HANDER WAS PITCHING MOOKIE WOULD BE LEADING OFF AND LENNY MAY NOT EVEN STARTED YOU IMBECILE!
Do you even CONSIDER normal baseball strategy at all? Or is EVERYTHING based on numbers? Get your head out of your sabermetric fog and start thinking real baseball decisions based on game day strategies and situations. It happens all the time then and NOW.
Don’t you have anything better to do today??? I’m VERY BUSY but you keep on insisting.
btw you started with the off subject stuff by referring to me as member of flat earth society. Bad analogy. You’re OVER-THINKING yourself into circles. typical of a saber head which you ARE despite your claims.
The Mets won the 1986 World Series with Mookie Wilson as their leadoff hitter. I said it again – now go spend 2 WHOLE DAYS taking ONE SENTENCE out of it’s context going after someone so you can turn it into a current day debate about making decisions based on on base percentages.
Don’t you have work to do? Don’t you have software you must study? Or something? Oh wait i do……ARE YOU FINALLY DONE????
Boyonne the internet tough guy. When in doubt, start calling people names and disparaging peoples personal lives and situations. What a big, big man you must be.
I’m amazed they have not banned your IP.
Bayonne, your going off topic again and trying to change the issue we are examining. If you want to plead too busy go ahead but it doesn’t change the fact that your statement is factually incorrect.
Not only was Mookie NOT the Met primary leadoff hitter, he was no longer a “hacker” as you stated.
Mookie’s OB% from his inception into the League was .325, .317, .314, .300 and in 1984 .308. After Lenny came up here his OB% started climbing .331, .345, .359 and .345.
Davey Johnson OPTED to have the higher OB% option leading off. The “platoon” at leadoff followed the OB% because that is what Johnson wanted out of the leadoff position. Higher OB% production for Hernandez, Carter Strawberry and Foster to hit behind.
That was the reason for the “platoon” at leadoff. To get the leadoff man on as much as possible regardless of who or how and the “platoon” was the way they went about it.
Bobby Valentine, who you have mentioned many times as being a terrific manager also saw the value in having a high OB% lead off man and employed one in Texas that was totally devoid of traits usually associated with the lead off spot. Brian Downing. Remember him? Catcher/DH, no speed, no base stealing, just high OB%. What do you think was the reason he batted him lead off?
Another factually incorrect statement you made was what if Dykstra had been up in the 9th instead of Mookie and had walked and the next guy got out. WE LOSE. How could we have lost when the game was tied? Mookie was batting from the left side same as Dykstra wold have been. Just as much chance of a passed ball to him as Mookie.
I’m no sabermetrician. I come from my belief in high OB% at lead off from 4 decades of watching and playing baseball and seeing how line ups function with high OB types at leadoff vs. low OB types.
Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine obviously see the value in having a high OB% leadoff hitter. They even put in strategies to achieve exactly that.
If all you have to defend your position that the Mets won the World Series with a hacker at leadoff, which I have clearly disproved, is that you are busy with some software, I think I’ve proven my point well enough.
When I see a Bayonne Mets Fan’s post, I usually skip over it. It’s easier to convince a block of cement than Bayonne Mets Fan. He’s against anything innovative and often challenges incontestable facts. Sometime back, a guy who lives in the Bayonne NJ area (I won’t name him but he’s made many insightful posts on MMO) said that with Bayonne Mets Fan’s attempts to control discussions and bully folks, he try’s to be a tough guy. Bayonne Mets Fan responded that he doesn’t mean to be like that. Apparently he’s reverted back to his obnoxiousness.
Bayonne, Mookie’s OB % didn’t go UP because he was hitting from his natural side. Mookie’s OB% went up because that’s what he had to do to stay in the lineup.
Mookie’s 1980 – 1984 splits are as follows:
1980 – vs. RHP .247/337/369
vs. LHP .143/280/286
1981 vs. RHP .276/324/373
vs. LHP .250/286/367
1982 vs. RHP .271/311/372
vs. LHP .286/324/361
1983 vs. RHP .283/311/376
vs. LHP .257/268/343
1984 vs. RHP .276/309/394
vs. LHP .276/306/437
As you can see his BA and OB was only better in one of those first five years (1982)as a RH hitter against LHP. As a longtime baseball fan you would, or should know that switch hitters, by hitting so much more often left handed almost always hit better left handed through sheer repetition among other things. You would, or should know that the small amount of AB’s against LHP can invariably skew the results in any given season. That appears to be the case here since in five of his first six seasons BA and OB were better against RHP. THOSE BETTER RESULTS ARE WHAT WAS TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM BY THE “PLATOON.”
The question that remains is why would Davey have had Mookie hit from his worse side and not his best? Isn’t that the opposite of the reason for HAVING a “platoon.”
I think the only answer we are left with is that Lenny got OB so much more than Mookie did even from Mookie’s BEST side that Lenny got all those AB’s.
While it is clear that you do not value high OB out of your leadoff hitters, it is obvious that Davey Johnson did. Spin that.
Now what were Lenny Dykstra’s numbers vs. LHP while w/the Mets.
And then pro-rate it as if Lenny was a fulltime player for the Mets w/no Mookie Wilson.
It was a platoon.
If Lenny was full time w/Mets and no Mookie his numbers would be WORSE because he wasn’t good against LHP at that time.
It was a platoon. That’s what they did in those days.
Lenny got more playing time because there were more RHP than LHP. If there were more LHP than RHP Mookie would have gotten more playing time.
I’ve said that, what, 10 times already?
….the cycle goes on and on and on.
But Bayonne, you keep saying the same think while avoiding the point. Everyone already knows the LH hitter gets more AB’s in a platoon. That’s not news. What were trying to understand is why did Mookie “lose” those LH’ed AB’s when his BA and OB were better from that side?
Let me try again. Why would Davey have taken away 70% of Mookie’s AB’s and given them to Dykstra when they essentially had the same BA and SLG against RHP?
Bayonne, in a traditional platoon you would take one player who’s much better offensively from one side and match him up with another player who’s much better from the opposite side. Normally a switch hitter, like Mookie, is not a part of a platoon. A switch hitter who is very poor from one side or the other (like Backman) could be part of a platoon. That situation does not apply to Mookie Wilson.
Mookie lost the AB’s from which he hit the best and kept the AB’s in which he didn’t. That doesn’t make sense does it Bayonne?
The topic we are discussing is not WHY the platoon was effective. The topic we are discussing is WHY WAS THEIR A PLATOON. The reason we’re discussing this is because of your statement in regard to Reyes, stating that we have won a World Series with a “hacker” hitting leadoff.
“hacker” is not an accurate description of Mookie Wilson from 1985 – the end of his career, nor is it an accurate description of Dykstra at any point in his career.
The simple fact is that Davey gave the AB’s from Mookie’s best side and gave them to Lenny because he got OB a lot more than Mookie from that side. If you have another reason why Mookie’s best handed AB’s went to Dykstra please state it.
While your at it please help us to understand why a manager you admire, Bobby Valentine, hit Brian Downing at leadoff while managing Texas. What are your thoughts about the reason(s) for that decision?
First of all I don’t “avoid” so let’s get that straight.
It’s the WAY you lay out your question that I have a BIG PROBLEM with. You make it sound like it was done intentionally.
I don’t think Davey had it in mind that he was “taking away 70% Mookie’s ABs”.
When Lenny came up, he was a natural Lefty and it was best for the team that he create a platoon situation.
Yes their numbers can overlap at times but it was still a PURE right/lefty platoon.
That’s it. Now you’re going into semantics.
You are avoiding the questions Bayonne. There’s no other way to spin it.
Your right it worked out for the best but WHY would Dykstra have gotten the AB’s from the side that was Mookie’s better hitting side especially when their BA and SLG were so similiar?
What do you think the reason(s) Bobby Valentine had Brian Downing, a catcher/DH, bat leadoff for him in Texas?
Mookie was a leadoff hitter for the Mets for many years during the 80s, when Lenny came up yes he shared it. I know that and I remember it well, but Mookie was a leadoff hitter for the Mets for a long time.
But Bayonne, Mookie wasn’t really the Met leadoff hitter in the World Series year of 1986 or 1985 or 1987 either. He batted leadoff against LHP and not all the time either and he was a switch hitter.
Davy gave Lenny that job because he was better suited to hit leadoff.
Maybe, I’d have to ask Davey that but it was a platoon – There are more righty than lefty pitchers too and Lenny was strictly a lefty.
The platoon worked well, both had very good running games, good fielders..i cannot remember who was better in CF or who had better arm but it was a great situation.
I thought Lenny was a little better fielder and his arm, although not that good was better than Mookie’s due to his shoulder injuries.
You don’t know that Davey gave that job to Lenny because he was better suited. That’s your opinion.
They BOTH platooned that year and BOTH batted leadoff. Lenny was a lefty and got more ABs cuz there’s more righty pitchers.
Lenny was a better hitter as a Lefty but Mookie offered more flexibility as a switch hitter – and hit pretty good too.
I guess the key question would be why an established switch hitting leadoff hitter like Mookie Wilson would have “lost” 70% of leadoff AB’s to a rookie or 2nd year player who essentially hit for the same average and slugging %.
Switch hitters don’t very often get platooned to begin with and established leadoff hitters don’t usually wind up either sitting or hitting somewhere other than lead off in favor of a rookie or 2nd year player who has almost the same BA and Slg %.
The only difference is what they did when they didn’t get a hit. Lenny, more often than Mookie, got on first base anyway and he did it without costing an out, which put the running game in gear and extended the line up so Carter and Strawberry would more likely hit, and hit with someone on.
I can’t think of any other reason why Mookie, a switch hitter would wind up not hitting leadoff 70% of the time when he had been hitting lead off 100% of the time the prior 5 years. Can you?
I know what you’re trying to get at ..and this is my last response cuz i don’t have time for this back and forth right now
This “costing an out” talk is BS. I don’t do that. You don’t cost outs as a result of your natural playing style, you cost outs when you boot the ball and make errors.
They platooned. Lenny was not good vs. Lefties. Both had positives and negatives.
Lenny played more because there are MORE RIGHTY PITCHERS THAN LEFTY.
and if Lenny played everyday his numbers just may not be as impressive cuz he COULD NOT HIT LEFTIES. Mookie albeit a different style can compensate by being a switch hitter.
I can’t believe i have to go over this. I thought all this was understood in the beginning.
It is clear to anyone without an agenda that Lenny coming up here and being so successful at a lead off hitter’s primary duty is what caused a rejuvination in Mookie’s game.
Getting hurt in 1985 (shoulder) and 1986 ST (eye) gave Mookie time to see the value to the TEAM of lenny’s ability to get OB at a high percent.
The fact that this was not just competition for the leadoff spot but also for playing time in the field makes it just that much more obvious how Mookie responded to the competition.
Immediately raising his OB from .325, .317, .314, .300, .308, to all of a sudden .331 (in the year Lenny came up) .345, .359, .345. Coincidentally going from being a full time leadoff hitter to a part time one, albeit, a part time one with a now decent OB%.
No, the “platoon” was not put into place between the two because of a righty/lefty situation, it was put into place because one player got OB significantly more than the average leadoff hitter and one got OB significantly less than the average leadoff hitter. The lower OB% (now part time at leadoff) worked to increase his OB% and did, becoming average to slightly above average in his part time role at leadoff and elsewhere in the lineup.
In all other ways Lenny and Mookie’s game were fairly identical. Davey chose the one with the higher OB% to bat leadoff more often because HE valued it at leadoff over any other differences that existed between the two and more than likely Davey explained this to Mookie and jump started his increased awarness of the importance of a lead off hitter getting on.
Members of the Flat Earth Society may persist in preferring the lower OB% leadoff hitter to the higher OB% leadoff hitter but clearly Davey Johnson is not one of them.
It is even more clear that the 1986 Mets did NOT win a World Series with a low OB% lead off hitter (like Jose Reyes) No, they won with a part time now average leadoff hitter and a much more often high OB% leadoff hitter in Lenny Dykstra.
I wonder what a little competition for the leadoff gig might do for Jose? Probably wouldn’t hurt his game one iota.
Revisionist history to attempt to prove something that doesn’t exist is a waste of every ones time but a staple of the Members of the Flat Earth Society.
This is 10 paragraphs of pure BALONEY. for the 8 billionth time Lenny was put into the leadoff position because he came up as a good hitter who walked a lot and the Mets were better using Mookie and Dykstra as a PLATOON because of a righty/lefty situation.
I remember it back then and there was NO TALK of giving Lenny the majority of the playing time because of his OBP. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. You’re simly LYING by saying that’s why when that’s not true – you’re making up it up.
Mookie got better naturally because he hit from his natural side more.
LENNY’S NUMBERS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AS GOOD IF HE WAS THE EVERYDAY LEADOFF BECAUSE HE COULD NOT HIT LEFTIES AT THE TIME.
agee likes make up stuff as to why these things happened and rewrite history. It’s his fantasy land.
You’re DONE. No more on this subject.
Bayonne, 1985 and 1986 OB% splits for Met lead off hitters.
1985
Wilson .305 vs. RHP .361 vs. LHP
Dykstra .335 vs. RHP .349 vs. LHP
1986
Wilson .348 vs. RHP .341 vs. LHP
Dykstra .390 vs. RHP .336 vs. LHP
Clearly the “reason” for the platoon was not batter handedness, in fact how could it be? Mookie was a switch hitter.
The reason for the “platoon” at leadoff was the fact that Mookie “got on” vs. LHP slightly better than Lenny and Lenny “got on” quite a bit better than Mookie against RHP.
Clearly the driver behind this “platoon” at leadoff was OB% which is the most important quality in determining who you want hitting lead off for you, just ask Davey.
Nope,
The move behind the platoon was Lenny was a very good hitter who walked a lot and the 2 of them playing at their strengths was best for the Mets. Enough of this already.
Lenny’s numbers would have DROPPED BIG TIME – including his OBP if he played everyday then. They way they were used was best for the team and Davey made that decision.
You’re trying to apply present day thinking to decisions made 25 years ago and it’s simply not the case. I remember it.
And you took everything out of it’s context right from the start because YOU want to talk about OBP. You most certainly did press the issue. Now ENOUGH!!!!
You didn’t hear? Who would have been informing you of Dave Johnson’s decisions regarding his line ups?
Accussing me of lying while providing absolutely no supporting evidence for your position is typical Bayonne (and flat earth society) standard operating procedure.
The fact is you were lying when you stated that the Mets won a World Series with a guy that doesn’t get OB at or near, even league average and the fact is Mookie did get OB OVER league average and Lenny got OB at WELL OVER league average so please stop spreading your unsupported by facts, misrepresentations on MMO. Revising history to suit your theories will not change anything
Bayonne, Not one counter point to my exposing your lie that the Mets won a World Series with a lower than league average leadoff hitter when in fact the Mets won the World Series with a HIGHER than league average lead off hitter.
If you don’t believe Davey Johnson maybe you might want take a look at how Bobby Valentine values OB% out of a lead off hitter. You like him. You’ve said so many times. Guess who HE batted leadoff? Brian Downing. A catcher and DH with no speed, no stolen base accumen, just a much higher than average OB% in the spot of the order that is most beneficial, the leadoff spot. Spin that one.
Go ahead, don’t bring up any facts to support your nonsense. Wave the white flag in surrender and spout your memory and opinion as if they were facts.
Members of the Flat Earth Society would be very proud of you Bayonne.
It wasn’t a lie. I don’t lie. Yes the Mets DID win the World Series with Mookie Wilson as leadoff hitter – I’ll say it again.
You’re taking the original sentence out of context and turning it into a make-believe situation that Davey Johnson consciously decided to make Lenny a leader hitter too because of his OBP.
Your trying to take the way some people use current day thinking and apply it to how it was done 25 years ago. AND YOUR SAYING JOHNSON WAS CONSCIENCE OF THAT without proving it. You’re the liar. I don’t lie.
Enough of this already now go write a 20 paragraph manifesto about the word “the”.
Do you suffer from some type reading disability? I provided TONS of counter points in the many responses I made before ALL because you’re taking a sentence out of context from last night and you woke up this morning CONTINUING to pursue the matter. Get a life already.
Lenny would not have been nearly as productive as an everyday player. Davey PLATOONED THEM because it was best for the team and Lenny proved he can do the job by being a GOOD HITTER and since he walked a lot, leadoff was perfect for him. Yes that’s what I’m saying he did. Can I prove it? NO because I don’t have Johnson’s phone number but he CERTAINLY wasn’t using today’s mentality in making the decision.
Dude, ENOUGH! I proved my points. ENOUGH. I’m busy, I have a life – go do something else.
First off, Citi field was built for Jose Reyes. HUGE gaps, the Pepsi Porch is perfect considering most of his HRs from the left side are high, towering shots. Bayonne I disagree with your “not good in the clutch” statement. Reyes seems to find ways of getting those big hits. I remember in 2006 in the NLCS, Reyes hit a key double to keep the game alive… just for Beltran to strike out.
right on Bayonne!!!!
it is a sad thing if a franchise has to lose one of their young star players because they are “too good”.
Hopefully they work out something in ST for an extension. That way reyes doesn’t have to deal with distractions during the season, and Alderson gets to see him healthy and producing in ST.
once he got in the grove after missing ST last year, Reyes was cranking until the oblique pull slowed him down. And he is still only 27, so if he is in top shape and performing in ST there that should be enough to show that he is in shape.
If alderson holds firm on making him play the season, it may just be that they have already determined he is not part of the future and are setting up for his exit.
I’m afraid you might be right. Who knows they might not feel it is likely to be in the World Series for 4 years and at that point Jose is 31, might as well get something for the rebuilding effort that will be here in 3 years
I thought only low market teams had to let their stars go when they hit free agency? Welcome to the New York Royals. I knew right from jump street this front office was brought here for their low market experience bcause that’s where the Wilpons are heading with this team.
The Mets goal is to become a low market team. Give them time.
Then why are you still here? Seriously you hate everything about the team, but if you keep coming back for more you’re either sadistic or just stupid.
did you not see Werth leave philadelphia royals recently?
Some in this fan base really have the winter duldroms. I can’t believe the panic over NOTHING.
Holy crap I’ve never seen anything like it.
It is my opinion that both Reyes and Alderson are taking the right approach in regards to how they look at Reyes pending free agent season.
This is a business like Reyes said in the video. This isn’t personal so the disrespect aspect when it comes to his free agency bears very little here.
Alderson may decide to wait and see 1st Reyes play before talking and Reyes doesnt want to be distracted once the season gets underway.
This is nothing new in MLB this happens every year with pending free agents.
It’s in Reyes best interest to play well to cash in and Alderson knows that that is a huge incentive for Reyes to play well.
You can say Alderson is banking on it.
Maybe by the ASB both sides may be open to negotiating. I don’t know but I do know that the Mets and many of us fans are banking on Reyes having a huge free agent walk year. Will he be here in 2012?
Stay tuned.
PS. HoJo,OklahomaMetFan Thanks for the advice.
You hit the nail on the head. Nothing wrong with waiting.
Sandy wins no matter how this plays out if he plays the wait and see game.
If Reyes plays well then he will be worth a ton of players at the trading deadline. With no contract issues to interfere with the negotiations Sandy will have no problem getting what he wants for Reyes in trade. This only happens if the rest of the team does not perform or if the team is so bad signing reyes doesn’t really do as much as the players we get back will on a team level. Win for Sandy!
If Reyes plays well and the team is plaing well with him (they are playing for the division or close) then no problem they will resign him and not spend any more money than anyone else would, they will simply pay market value or if he walks get the draft picks instead! Win for Sandy!
If Reyes doesn’t play well then Sandy will win by not having given him some huge contract, Reyes value falls and we could then resign him for much less than we would be paying him right now if we wanted or let him go and still probably get a pick for him.
There is no way to win by resigning him right now!
So waiting is the smart play!
Sure you risk entering a bidding war next offseason but again you at least have the choice of declining to sign (getting Picks) or signing him at full market rate.
Your not going to get any discounts by signing him now and if the rest of the team is awful it isn’t worth paying a ranson just to have one player when you could have gotten 3 or 4 to rebuild the rest of the team with.
I completely agree. While I would hate to see Jose anywhere else, by trade or going FA the circumstances Metsie pointed out dictate that we let this play out.
Oh, boy, I hope this doesn’t turn as ugly and out of control as the Jeter contract!
Cuz, that ended so horribly for both parties and wasn’t totally invented by a bunch of bored media monkeys.
We are talking about the player who can’t bother to concentrate for every one of the 100+ pitches in a game, right?
carl, i could actually see that being the sticking point.
you can get away with that manny stuff in left field, but not at short.
i don’t think it’s as bad as you make it out to be, but i could imagine it driving collins up a wall.
I’m hoping Jose has a career year and I believe he’ll be the Met position player to actually earn his $100 million dollar contract.
I get MLB extra innings and it’s a dam shame how announcers from other teams (except those thug philly announcers) love Jose and discuss how talented he is in a POSITIVE way.
Philly guys r downright mean with some of the Reyes comments
but they love their own punk (victorino).
greg, if he gets 100MM, it won’t be from the mets …
Hey don’t let this year’s signings fool you. The Mets are loaded.
I always seem to hear that also. I live in NC so I get Braves announcers everytime the Mets play ATL. Those announcers are the definition of the word, “Homers”, yet they adore Reyes.
Everybody adores Reyes that is excpet the lunatic fringe of the supposed Met fan base. Too many Met fans hate every Met that isn’t a backup or a bum.
Like whom? Who hates every Met that isn’t a back up or a bum?
Harry my post was toward all the REAL fans. The ones who see the positive through the bad decisions. Unfortunately, I see too many Joe Benigno types out there. Pessimistic about everything and hate everyone just to make press. It’s pathetic.
Good move by Jose cause he will have to prove himself and then he will be in the drivers seat come off season. He is one of the most popular Mets along with Wright since 2004 and he has done a lot for his image and Mets in the community but he is wanting to stay in NY for family and familiarity reasons so we will see how it plays out.
Hey there is a team in NY other than Mets that could use a SS like Jose to replace an aging, ready to be moved to another position, SS and that would really tear me up to see him in a Yankee or Philly uniform.
Mets FO have to be smart but not dumb at the same time cause with all that money coming off the books next year Jose, playing to his level, and David need to finish out their careers as Mets and lead them to WS.
I know that finances is part of the game but with teams keeping their young stars longer it will be hard to replace Jose, not to mention that David’s contract will be up after 2012.
Mets need to extend David and sign Jose to long term contract during off season, 6-7 years, and keep them as anchors for the re-built team that the FO wants to build.
He is approaching his prime years and he is only 27?
You make some good points.
Very well said sarge. Given his age and the fact his best years are still ahead of him, it would be traumatic to this fanbase to see Reyes hit his stride on another team. It would be devastating to the Mets image too.
I can’t imagine the level of hatred and animosity spewed toward the FO and owners from people at this sight if he leaves and has success with say the Phils. It will be truly, epically ugly.
If falsegod sandy won’t sign him then the hypnotics like chris will defend to the hilt
You really are an idiot.
even with finances, it would only be a 1 year overload, worst case (meaning K rod option vests).
If they do extend Reyes, in 2012 say it will be 16mill/year. And Wright will be getting about the same. Santana sitting there with his 24 and bay at 16ish. And other than K rod, that is it for big money, right?
so by 2013, even with reyes, payroll might not be as high as it is now, but with much better talent, assuming a few of the young guys coming up hit and stick.
Has it occurred to all the drama queens that maybe, just maybe, most of this year’s penny pinching (if we can call it that) is so they can give guys like Reyes and Wright big extensions next year, along with bringing in big name free agents?
if you intend to sign him, it would be cheaper to negotiate an extension with reyes now than it will be when he can negotiate with other teams.
i would mind it less if they discussed numbers and decided that they couldn’t agree on a figure ( uggla, weeks, pujols ), but just saying we’re not negotiating at this time seems wrong to me.
You’re assuming he will stick by his claim to not negotiate during the season. I’m sure if he has a good Spring Training and the FO makes a reasonable intial offer, it will all be settled by June.
i’d take that
I’d say we all would. A healthy and happy Reyes is a perennial MVP candidate. We just have a little problem getting a healthy Reyes.
I’m not so sure Donal.I think Reyes feels slighted by Alderson and our new manager.
Why do you say that? Are you and him BFFs on Facebook? Have you never actually seen a negotiation take place?
I don’t see that at all Lifer. Reyes loves this team and wants to win. If you actually listen to what he says in his interviews, he LOVES Terry Collins. He also constantly repeats the fact that he wants to stay a Met. He only links baseball and business when reporters force topics of free agency and trades on him. The way he answers shows a lot about his maturity with the New York press. Reyes will be a life long Met. I am not too worried.
I wonder if he was just politely telling some reporters to piss off when asked about a subject he doesn’t want blowing up in the media.
Your assuming that the Wilpons want a competitive team ove next 3-5 yrs. I don’t think they do.
Well ,then enjoy rooting for the Yankees.
So you must be one who thinks the GM is an idiot. You wait until a guy is on the market and have to outbid the Red Sox and the Phillies for a guy you can sign now without competition!!!!!!. Wow!!! What do you intake in the morning???
Why would Reyes sign now? He has nothing to gain by signing now.
You think right now the mets will come close to possibly offering him a Crawford like contract? I am not so sure on that.
You think Reyes is looking to take anything less than that right now? After seeing what Crawford got I’d be surprised if Reyes agent is advising him to settle for less.
It’s in Reyes best interest to play the season out cause he knows if he has just an average like Reyes year he will probably command more than he can at this time by signing early.
The idea that what is said now as far as when both sides will or won’t negotiate is somehow set in stone is unrealistic.
There is nothing to suggest that they can’t change their minds and indeed decide at some point in the season to start to negotiate. They may also just wait to see till after the season.
Is the idea of a MLB team not negotiating before the start of a season with a star player really that foreign?
Neither Sandy or Reyes has anything to gain by signing now really…
in hindsight, one of them probably will.
if reyes has a good year, sandy will regret it, and vice versa. i think sandy has more to risk by waiting than reyes does. he would have to really stink it up or have a big injury to get a worse deal than he can get today. sandy can flat out lose the guy if reyes has a good year.
and i don’t want to have to hope reyes has a bad year just to keep him. i want him to do well without having to worry that he’s going to parlay that into a big payday in boston or anaheim ( or frisco or the bronx or philly )
it seems to me as if there is a window to negotiate during march, i hope something gets done.
Good for Reyes! Our new GM came into town and promptly announced that a shortstop who has averaged during his 8 seasons with the Mets:
687 at bats, 111 runs scored, 196 hits, 33 doubles, 15 triples,
13 homes runs, 66 rbi’s, and 58 stolen bases while playing excellent defense will have to “..show me that is worth a long term contract in 2011.”
Alderson and our new manager whats his name? Kelly something? Have both made it clear that they would be more comfortable with perhaps a shortstop other than Jose Reyes. God help me but for some reason I can’t shake the feeling that Alderson has already made a decision not to resign Reyes after the 2011 year. Why I don’t know.
All I know is that the name Marco Scourtaro keeps popping up in my head as the Met shortstop in 2012.
That feeling you have, it has a name. It’s called overreacting.
Lifer you are truly an idiot. Go watch Jose’s interview from yesterday. This is out of the NY Post.
”
Terry Collins made the right first step as manager, telling The Post last week that Reyes will bat leadoff and that he will take advantage of Reyes’ thunder arm by using him more on cutoffs and relays. Collins expanded on those comments yesterday.
It was all sweet to Reyes’ ears.
“Terry is a great person,” said Reyes, now the longest-tenured Met. “Terry’s got a lot of fire, a lot of energy. I like that. He wants me to be more involved in the field.”
This is what Reyes has been waiting to hear from a Mets manager. Reyes wants more responsibility. He wants to show off that arm.”
Wow. It really sounds like our manager, whose name is Terry Collins by the way, hates Reyes right? You sir are ignorant. This team wants Reyes to become more of a leader. They do not want him gone. They want his skills to be utilized on the field as a Met. Not another team.
Maybe you should read more about this team which you claim to root for.
If the point to Bayonne’s comment “the Mets DID win the World Series with Mookie Wilson as leadoff hitter” is that he means Mookie was the leadoff hitter in Game 7 then Factually Bayonne is correct. The Game 7 leadoff hitter was Mookie Wilson.
I guess you can also by the same token say the Mets won Game 7 of the World Series with Tim Teufel at 2b not Wally Backman Backman.
Now if the idea is that in the World Series overall the Mets won because Mookie was the leadoff hitter? That is factually incorrect. Other than in Game 1 and Game 7 Lenny Dykstra was the leadoff hitter for games 2,3,4,5 and 6 of the World Series.
In the regular season of 1986 Dykstra started in the leadoff spot in 96 games. Mookie Wilson started in the leadoff spot in 56 games.
Here is the info below.
Mets Lineup: World Series Game 1
LF Mookie Wilson
CF Lenny Dykstra
1B Keith Hernandez
_C Gary Carter
RF Darryl Strawberry
3B Ray Knight
2B Tim Teufel
SS Rafael Santana
_P Ron Darling
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=GzNuI
Mets Lineup: World Series Game 2
CF Lenny Dykstra
2B Wally Backman
1B Keith Hernandez
_C Gary Carter
RF Darryl Strawberry
LF Danny Heep
3B Howard Johnson
SS Rafael Santana
_P Dwight Gooden
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=SVXEJ
Mets Lineup: World Series Game 3
CF Lenny Dykstra
2B Wally Backman
1B Keith Hernandez
_C Gary Carter
RF Darryl Strawberry
3B Ray Knight
DH Danny Heep
LF Mookie Wilson
SS Rafael Santana
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=lkTsp
Mets Lineup: World Series Game 4
CF Lenny Dykstra
2B Wally Backman
1B Keith Hernandez
_C Gary Carter
RF Darryl Strawberry
3B Ray Knight
DH Danny Heep
LF Mookie Wilson
SS Rafael Santana
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=qGeCA
Mets Lineup: World Series Game 5
CF Lenny Dykstra
2B Tim Teufel
1B Keith Hernandez
_C Gary Carter
RF Darryl Strawberry
3B Ray Knight
DH Kevin Mitchell
LF Mookie Wilson
SS Rafael Santana
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=yGrt2
Mets Lineup: World Series Game 6
CF Lenny Dykstra
2B Wally Backman
1B Keith Hernandez
_C Gary Carter
RF Darryl Strawberry
3B Ray Knight
LF Mookie Wilson
SS Rafael Santana
_P Bob Ojeda
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=EMTJ8
Mets Lineup: World Series Game 7
CF Mookie Wilson
2B Tim Teufel
1B Keith Hernandez
_C Gary Carter
RF Darryl Strawberry
3B Ray Knight
LF Kevin Mitchell
SS Rafael Santana
_P Ron Darling
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=eViCX
Lenny Dsykstra Games started in the leadoff spot in 1986 = 96 games
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=4mNht
Mookie Wilson Games started in the leadoff spot in 1986 = 56 games
baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=HTF77
MNJ, Bayonne’s primary point is that the Mets won a World Series with a “hacker” at lead off. Regardless of whoever was hitting leadoff, one was decidely NOT a hacker and the other had been cured of that trait by the time the 1986 season began.
By 1986 the Met lead off hitter regardless of whether it was #1 or #4 both were above league average in OB% both individually and collectively. This was not the case from 1980-1984. Regardless of how much software Bayonne must install.
I see, I figured since he made a point of saying Mookie’s name as far as the Mets winning the W.S with him as the lead off hitter. I would set the record straight that yes Mookie indeed was the lead off hitter in the deciding game 7 but well you already know the rest.
MNJ, I was reacting to Bayonne’s incorrect statement (about Reyes) that we had already won a World Championship with a “hacker” at leadoff.
That statement was untrue then, it’s untrue now and will always be untrue. By 1986 Mookie could no longer be described as a hacker and Lenny never was,
Got it Thanks.
And for your information Bayonne, the first attempt at looking under the hood at why and how line ups and rosters function the way they do was probably by looking at platoon splits, which could reasonably be described as the first attempt at what later became known as sabermetrics and they’ve been around longer than you have and both of our World Championship teams employed platoons to get the most out of what we had.
I say we let the season play out and let the Wilpons, who have the final say, put their money where their mouth is and re-sign after a good year or just let him go to another team cause of new FO policy.
Yeah and Mets fans, those of us who remember the midnight massacre, Seaver trade, will see what it was like to see Tom get a no hitter as a Red and his 300th win as a White Sox.
I just have to wonder about how this off season will wk out and pray all is well and Jose is re signed and David is extended.
Sarge, did you see the Collins quote I posted about N. Evans?
if you look at the other starting shortstops in this league, you may start to see why i think reyes should be signed ASAP.
just look at them.
For those Philly fan Reyes haters, if Jose went to Philly to replace an aging Rollins they would be behind him 100% pct but signing in Philidelphia “City of Brotherly Love” means that you will be booed at any slight of hustle and Jose would have to wear ear plugs, so I don’t think he would go there for his mental well being AND his families as well.
Reyes needs to show he is worthy of an extension. Guys tend to have good seasons in the walk year of their contract, so lets let him have one of those. Then we resign him.
We need to be sure he is capable of playing 150 games a season at full speed before handing him new deal, which would be in the area of 6-7 years, 90-110 million.
If he proves that, I’ll drive to his house to bring him to the contract signing. Until he shows that, I don’t care if we lose him next season. Like it or not, the Mets are in a rebuilding, not reloading mode.
http://www.citifieldnine.com/2011/01/so-long-jose-reyes.html/
7 years – 100 MM for 28 yr old top 5 SS in the league. i’d do that tonight if i were GM.
5 years with an option for 6 would make me feel more comfortable but either way I would want an owners option to opt out after 4 years.
me too, but reyes has alot of leverage here. you’ll need to give in a bit.
I guess but for a leadoff hitter whose never shown the ability to get on base other than by hitting his way on and using his speed. By age 33 i’d “start” to be a bit concerned as far as Reyes ability to continue playing up to his 2008 levels.
I’d gladly give in and pay a little more in the 1st few yrs so i can have the ability to opt out after 5 yrs.
I just think that 7 yrs with no opt out is too many yrs.
.355ish OBP isn’t quite not getting on. That would be Francouer territory.
would like to see another .025 or so, but his slugging more than makes up for it.
Fair enough but for the record
Reyes career obp is .335
baseball-reference.com/players/r/reyesjo01.shtml
Now to be fair though in Reyes 4 best years from 2005 to 2008 his obp was .342 but that tells but a small portion of what made Reyes great those years.
baseball-reference.com/players/r/reyesjo01.shtml#2005-2008-sum:batting_standard
To finish up since for what it’s worth Reyes over the last 2 years in which he has had to deal with injuries his obp was .328
baseball-reference.com/players/r/reyesjo01.shtml#2009-2010-sum:batting_standard
I like Reyes I think if he can continue to keep his ops around .780 he will be just fine.
not counting when he was 20!
from 2006-2009 (about 2300 plate appearances), his OBP was between .354 and .358 every year. Actually freakishly consistent.
even in 2010, once he got back in the groove, over his last 93 games (roughly 2/3 of his season) it was still ~.345.
so I am going to assume that with his experience, just hitting his prime, he is going to put up an OBP at least about what he was doing regularly before this past season.
i believe we r saying the same thing. Reyes one would hope can put up numbers comparable to what he averaged in his best years over the next 5 years.
for sure, if his agent let’s you. that’s all i’m saying.
no doubt those 6th and 7th years will be overpays, but that’s the market.
i think he would take a 5yr with options today, but if he’s hitting .300 with 25 steals by June, you can forget it.
i keep saying it, but i don’t want to hope he has a mediocre season just so we can afford him.
I would just like them to get the deal locked down now, while he is still likely to take some discount in exchange for guaranteed security.
although these days, considering he would have banked at least $30mill or so by the end of 2011, that shouldn’t be too much of an issue (you would hope).
A nice compromise if 5 guaranteed, with 2 being some kind of vesting or mutual option. Plenty of ways to make Reyes stinking rich, while still giving the Mets some protection.
i’m with you there.
i hope they just want to see how he looks and how he responds to collins in march and that they get it done then and there.