24
2011
Is It Too Early To Say The Worst Is Over?
An article by Craig Lerner
Mets fans have had to endure a lot of heartache and grief in the last few seasons. As if one historic collapse in 2007 wasn’t bad enough, we followed it up with a less historic collapse in 2008, a season long episode of MASH in 2009, and all the drama, embarassment and comedy of a Paris Hilton movie in 2010.
In the media, the mere mention of the Mets would conjure up terms like “what a joke”, “what an embarrassment”, “oh God, not again” and “what a bunch of overpaid choke-artists”.
I was reminded of all those terms in a post by David Gershman of Beyond the Boxscore, who believes those days are now a thing of the past and in our rear view mirrors. The “embarrassment fairy” as he calls it, is long gone.
Not too long ago, the Mets were a laughing stock. The Amazin’s were the first that came to the mind of many, when the terms “joke,” “overpaid,” “choke,” and “horrible” were thrown around. Year after year the Mets would spend a boatload of money on free agents and make claims trying to excite the fans and at the same time “scaring” the Phillies. Obviously it backfired on the Mets. The question has always been, how can the Mets get back to those days of bees, shining orange and blue opposed to just plain orange and blue, and simply heading in the right direction.
Finally, the bees are flying around the the parking lot of Citi Field. The grass is ever so green. The embarrassment fairy is long gone. And the Mets are expected to look a lot better in their blue and orange uniforms than they ever did since 2006. The days of horrible contracts, win-now pressure, and last day chokes are behind them. The Mets can finally play baseball the right way at Citi Field.
Sandy Alderson has a lot to do with this. As he was presenting the award to R.A. Dickey, not only myself, but many others in the room were able to sense confidence and trust in the Mets. It almost felt like they were a team all in it to win together for the first time since ’06. It seemed as if Sandy, could forsee the Mets future and see nothing but positive encounters in the Mets future. It just seemed as if the Mets family was in good hands.
Have you seen enough in the last 12 weeks to safely say that the Mets will play up to their potential and finally shed the overpaid label?
Have the recent offseason moves raised your expectations and have you convinced that we are now on the path toward championship caliber baseball in 2011 and beyond?
It really is amazing how the perception of the Mets has changed for the better within the media since Sandy Alderson took command as general manager. Yes of course you still have all the wise cracks from guys like Jon Heyman and Mike Francesa, but for the most part, the organization is respectable once again.
I’m looking forward to a great season in 2011, one that will make us all proud again, and very optimistic. It’s been a while.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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“a season long episode of MASH in 2009,”
An Alan Alda directed episode then? /bad Family Guy reference
Any, yes, it is too early. I am one of the guys who defends the Alderson hiring, but mainly because some people are rending garments before pitchers and catchers have even reported.
I can’t really heap too much praise on him at this point, either. I like the direction things are apparently going, but it is still too early to tell.
Remember, Omar was a hot property when he arrived, too.
Mike Francesa and Jon Heyman are pretty much correct in their wise cracks because as the SENSIBLE post by Joe D right below this one there’s still a lot of nonsense going on and it’s not in the rearview mirror.
I’ve been complaining about all these “early decisions” for awhile now, being mostly challenged by the “newer breed” of thinking as stated above in the quote by some kid who is no more or less a fan I am but is somehow his opinion is given some type of credibility because he blogs. Anybody can blog and the more you read these quotes from the newer breed like the person above the more it blurs the line between fan opinion and legitimate journalistic writing – whether you agree w/person or not.
There are also a lot of Mets FANS like myself who are not happy so far with how the front office has handled this offseason, and combine that with Terry Collins bizarre declarations that almost eliminate the need for any spring training. So no, all the craziness is not behind us just yet.
All of that, and the new cult-like way of thinking of a generation of people who, while financially it may be good for baseball helping it become more attractive to this newer breed of fan or older fan being taken in by the phenomena of sabermetrics – has in my opinion lowered the bar in having intelligent baseball discussion about the GAME of baseball and not about the RESULTS of baseball. The analyzation of the results of baseball is misleading many a new fan or older fan who used to be smart into thinking that that is how the game works and forgetting the fact of HOW you arrive at those results is really what the game is all about.
And this all has made reading the blogging experience less and less enjoyable for me in a very short time. It’s just not fun right now.
You know, I had a nice, drawn out, point by point rebuttal of what you typed. But, then I remembered whom I was addressing. I figured it would just be better for everyone if I dusted off this old chestnut:
What you’ve just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA nicely.
Yes, it’s SO terrible that bloggers are blurring the lines between themselves and “legitimate journalistic writing” like Mike F***ing Francesca.
now wait a minute. bayonne did suggest re-signing takahashi at 4MM per year for 2 years, and he liked the willie harris signing, because he saw him make 2 catches and have a late inning hit.
and he’s suggested trading choker wright for something. no names, but good clutch players. i imagine a cody ross or a matt stairs would do it.
i’m not sure he has had any other suggestions, only criticism, but I think the above 2 moves would have put us in a better spot then we’re at now.
LOLOLOLOLOL.
Very nice write up Bayonne. I personally see nothing but fear on the part of the new regime. I don’t know if the team could mkae a run with some improvements and I don’t know if its time to rebuild. But Alderson and his team were paid very well to make those decisions. They obviously decided not to go for the gold since they didn’t make one move to improve the team. Despite the praise by people who apparently think a move made by anyone not named Minaya must be good, the team is worse today than it was a year ago. The pen is worse and the rotation is worse. Losing a Santana and replacing him with arms that have been damaged for years is worsening the team. People can yell all they want that Feliciano and Taka weren’t worth the money they got, but get real, the guys brought in are horrid players. And why couldn’t they start the rebuilding process NOW?. The defenders of the new regime say you can’t move anyone now, you have to wait until July or after next year and get those draft picks that might help in 5 years. But that’s not true. Bad contracts were moved this Winter. Vernon Wells was moved but there wasn’t a hint of Beltran being moved. No talk about extending Reyes but if he does great we’ll talk? If he does great he won’t talk until everyone can talk as well. The front office gets an F for its first Winter.
Thanks,
And the site is being visited more by a breed of people who jus look at numbers on paper and think they understand baseball when in truth – THEY DON’T.
But hey, more people and more fans may be good for the business of baseball but the bar has been lowered big time when it comes to knowing what’s really important in baseball.
I also laughed the other day when when of the more visible “cult-members” of this phenomena – James K said “the Mets has a solid off season”
“A solid off season”
“A solid off season”
“A solid off season”
I feel like it’s Jim Morrison repeating the phrase “petition the Lord with Prayer” in The Soft Parade.
Only I’m yelling “IT WAS NOT A SOLID OFFSEASON”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XlqCFi6o-E
It’s not fun anymore, Harry
The actual truth – we don’t know what this offseason will result in until the actual season happens.
You are not smarter then a crystal ball – no really you’re not. So you can’t said it was not solid, in the same vain those saying it was solid, are not accurate either.
TIME WILL TELL
Since you and I are just behind a keyboard and not an actual GM, we can only discuss, it’s not real, not real life.
I’d give Alderson and his crew a C for this offseason except for one thing – Reyes’ contract. Let this negotiation go until the fall and you can bet there will not be any kind of discount because Jose love the Mets.We will have dissed him big-time. Worrying about his longevity, considering he gave us 4 years of over 150 games and 1 year of 133 games over the past 6 years. I think we can agree that he wouldn’t have lost nearly so much time in 2009 if his injury hadn’t been so mishandled trying to rush him back. This whole ignoring him before the season routine is designed to make it look like he left us instead of us giving a heartfelt bon-voyage because his market value has gotten too high. Watch and see!
disagree on the dissed part but agree that the idea of a hometown discount. This is his 1st huge payday he is all about business right now and getting paid. The same reason why i dont believe he feels he is getting dissed cause he knows its business all he has said is its a business.
He has never said anything even remote that i have read to insinuate he feels dissed.
I should have made myself clearer. I didn’t mean so much that he would feel dissed, but that I feel he would have actually have been dissed. Dis is what I meant, not dat! (That one is supposed to be humor, if it’s too bad to recognize)
Thx for expanding.
So in other words if they don’t subscribe to the same thought process as you, then it’s cult like thinking.
You and your friend Harry bring new mean to the word arrogance.
You reference “lowering the bar” in intelligent baseball discussion – that is the funniest because you are incapble of having any discussion, you are a know-it all bore. All you know is what YOU SAW, and said in the shoutbox, that makes it gospel.
Don’t forget that he coached early teen baseball. That makes him a seer looking forward, an authority looking backward, and an expert of talent. If Omar couldn’t pull off that nonsense, this guy certainly can’t. Lots of luck trying to discuss anything with him.
I am surprised that Wright is still with the Mets.
As long as Wright is with the team, nothing will change. Lose forever.
i agree.
we should trade him to philly for joe blanton, a world series winner.
Francis, so it’s Joe Blanton and who else? Cole Hamels? LOL.
anybody but halladay. went to a winner like philly and blew it when they needed him most. cody ross is his daddy.
Samo samo from the Wright stalker. If the improbable does happen and Wright goes on to strengthen another MLB team, I think you’ll try to badmouth him there.
Wright stalker? I though he/she was being sarcastic.
You mean mets2012 was serious?
Maybe he’s not to be taken seriously by us, but that was his intent.
Follow his posts and it’s obvious he is a serial stalker.
i hope you weren’t taking me seriously. maybe if i suggested david wright for pat burrell, who is a cross between cody ross and willie harris times ten.
jackpot !
Des is the Wright stalker, always saying how great he is.
It is very unnatural act to watch.
When you have a cancer, you have change everything you’ve been doing.
Starting with Wright is the way.
OK well if Wright in your opinion is a cancer than that tells me all i need to know going forward.
I didn’t say Wright is a cancer.
What I was saying was the team was really sick and it needed the make over.
When Phillies parted with Scott Rolen, they were on the way. and Yankees with Don Mattingly too.
Sure , there were other reasons ,too.
They were good players but not winners.
Surrounding them with good players weren’t the answer. Good knowing you and helping them to pack their bags were.
.
Mets2012 i wanna give u the benefit of the doubt but when you say,
“When you have a cancer, you have change everything you’ve been doing.
Starting with Wright is the way.”
How is that supposed to not mean that Wright is not part of the cancer?
If Wright is not part of the cancer as you then try to suggest then how smart is it to start to move what is not the cancer? I mean really cmon.
North Jersey.
Sorry about my bad English.
I dodn’t like Wright, but I will never say that he is a cancer.
He reminds of kid Carter who was a good player but phony as hell.
“I didn’t say Wright is a cancer.”
Yes, you did.
“What I was saying was the team was really sick and it needed the make over.”
Thats not a make over. that is a devestation.
“When Phillies parted with Scott Rolen, they were on the way.”
Ya, but apparently, St Louis was already there since they won the World Series with him starting at 3rd. He played fairly well for them, too.
“and Yankees with Don Mattingly too.”
Mattingly’s back had finally given out on him. He just couldn’t play anymore.
“Sure , there were other reasons ,too.”
Like salary dumping and injuries, neither of which apply to Wright.
“They were good players but not winners.”
When you play on a lousy franchise, how are you supposed to win?
“Surrounding them with good players weren’t the answer. ”
Really? Because it seemed to have worked for St Louis WRT Rolen.
“Good knowing you and helping them to pack their bags were.”
Ya, go take your MVP numbers to some other team that wants to win.
Mets2012 — yesterday was another day in your abusive posts about David Wright. On the story about Reyes, you had two venomous posts:
#
mets2012 says:
January 23, 2011 at 2:43 pm
No, It was Wright who did cocaine and more.
I heard it from a friend of mine whose girlfriend overheard it in the bathroom of a bar in the Brooklyn where she worked as waitress.
She said lurid stories about Wright’s sexual preferences too, but I don’t want to bother you with here.
They were very sick stories. I hope they weren’t true.
I wish his baseball hitting prowess were as varied as his sexual activities narrated by her.
Reply
#
mets2012 says:
January 23, 2011 at 2:56 pm
Plus, my friend is very skillful at embellishment and exaggeration. His girl isn’t so bad either.
And I am known to stretch the facts especially about Wright. So there you have it.
Reply
I was replying to the post about a guy hearing from his friend whose family memeber worked at the Citi Park that Jose did Cocaine.
I thought I was very witty.
You should learn to laugh along.
Mets2012: What was the purpose of the 2:43 post if it wasn’t to smear Wright? You have some explaining to do.
Des,
I was having some fun. Is it allowed?
“When you have a cancer, you have change everything you’ve been doing.”
Well, we know one person who isn’t an oncologist.
Donal,
I am not a oncologist but I have a friend who is a leading scientist on lymphatic cancer and he believes that once you have a cancer , you have to change everything you’ve been doing since whatever you’ve been doing caused the cancer.
Sure, it is radical but I agree with him.
And my dad beat non-hodgkins lymphoma by changing certain aspects like diet and such
He didn’t throw out his entire life. He got even more into his exersise routine.
David Wright is one of the good things about the franchise. The only reason you would want him gone is you are typing in your Jimmy Rollins jersey.
Donal,
I like your post about Rolen and Donnie.
I forgot that Rolen won one with St.Louie.
Maybe Wright can win one in SF or St.Louie.
But Keeping Jimmy Rollins and letting Scott Rolen go worked for Phillies, right?
And Once Donnie left, Yankees were on the way.right?
“And my dad beat non-hodgkins lymphoma by changing certain aspects like diet and such
He didn’t throw out his entire life. He got even more into his exersise routine.”
That was his suggestion .
I am very sorry that I have offended you in personal way.
I thought changing diets and exercize routine were huge.
Mets2012 — Don’t break your ankles by trying to run backwards from your nasty comments.
Were you trying to be funny as you claim? Remarkable sense of humor you have. lol
Mets2012 — Is this what you thought was funny? They are your words.
“No, It was Wright who did cocaine and more.
I heard it from a friend of mine whose girlfriend overheard it in the bathroom of a bar in the Brooklyn where she worked as waitress.
She said lurid stories about Wright’s sexual preferences too, but I don’t want to bother you with here.
They were very sick stories. I hope they weren’t true.
I wish his baseball hitting prowess were as varied as his sexual activities narrated by her.”
Des,
Come on dude, lighten up a bit.
Now, you are stalking me.
Donal’s dad is one of many who have beaten cancer. Unfortunately, many aren’t so fortunate.
Mets2012, some of us don’t bring up our personal medical histories, but they aren’t very different than Donal’s dad. Your insensitive, clumsy posts about Wright hit a new low yesterday. Wise up.
Des,
Now, you are being nasty.
I didn’t know his father had cancer and after I found out I apologized to him.
Mets2012 — You missed the point. You are offending all those who’ve had similar, potentially fatal diseases. Knock it off. Donal’s father is one of many. Also your joke, as you claimed it to be, was invidious and frankly sick. Get off the smear campaign of Wright. In your heart you must know it was filled with spite and should be below any Mets fan who wants the team to win.
Yet you were the one who brought his name up first, yet again.
So, if he goes so does Reyes by your demented thought process. Reyes is here longer then any Met, yet he never one, so shouldn’t both of them be shown the door?
Jerry,
But I like Reyes. And I am proudly dememted.
Plus, Reyes hasn’t played much.
Bayonne he has more credibility than you because you are a moron and you make yourself sound more stupid in your posts every single day. Figures Harry thinks this is good. I once saw a movie based on you two starring Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels. It’s my favorite comedy of all time. thanks guys.
Since the point of this post I suppose is to ask the following questions. Let me do so.
“Have you seen enough in the last 12 weeks to safely say that the Mets will play up to their potential and finally shed the overpaid label?”
- No not at all. I think that will only come by watching the way the team plays on the field.
“Have the recent offseason moves raised your expectations and have you convinced that we are now on the path toward championship caliber baseball in 2011 and beyond?”
- No not at all. Convinced would be too strong a word. I’d say hopeful but I think it’s too early to tell I believe the biggest factor that will have me convinced will be how well Alderson and his staff do in drafting both intl. and amateur. That may take a year or two for me to see that.
Having answered your questions i’d like to ask you one. You say “It really is amazing how the perception of the Mets has changed for the better within the media since Sandy Alderson took command as general manager.”
I am not so convinced of this so I’m curious, can you show examples of this?
I expect the media to continue to be more anti Mets until the Mets prove otherwise. It’s easy for the media to question the Mets moves cause if the media turns out to be wrong all they do is say “I guess I was wrong” and some never even say that.
I still remember how in September of 2009 the media kept saying how the Mets dont have a farm system even though if you was a Mets fan you knew of these players as i depicted in this graphic for my blog back in Sept of 2009
lh3.ggpht.com/_m4iBcq89LHQ/S0DKTlEQJtI/AAAAAAAADoU/qZx4HteWijs/s576/TRDMB_FrontPage–18_507x675.png
only to have the media the following year say well it looks like the Mets do have some talent down on the farm.
That is one example i’m sure there are many more that range from both sides pro and con the point is reading too much into anything the media says can be a dangerous thing.
I think people forget that results can only be evaluated in retrospect. Everything else is essentially just guessing (educated in some cases, but not all!)
so we are all just giving our opinions. there can not possibly be a right or wrong, just I think and He thinks.
If you don’t like an opinion expressed sure give your own, although many people (including media) seem to prefer just calling the other guy stupid.
as to this question, assuming the rest of the expected moves happy (ollie and castillo go), then yes, I have hope for the season. COnditional and tempered, but IMO still realistic.
the off season being good or bad I guess really hinges on expectations. If you didn’t think they were going to tear down to the studs and pull a KC style rebuild, and accepted they planned to keep payroll below 150mill, then to me they did a good job improving the supprting cast.
and if nothing else, most poeple should agree that for the team to be successful, the expensive beg names will have to produce! so adding better help for them has to be an improvement.
mostly I get befuddled when I read Sandy did “nothing” and that this is the “same team”. Same team, other than the likely 12 or more new gys on the opening day roster!
lot of double standards here too by some peole.
the same people that discount what a guy did in September (remember, every AB in september is against a total scrub call up, never any player that counts or gives a crap, or in an important game), and insisting that ST stats should make all the decisions on who makes the team.
completely ignoring the fact that every year plenty of guys dominate ST, then suck once the games count. And other guys (especially pitchers) that don’t do much in the spring, turn it on in the regular season.
why? Well, unlike sept., ST games really DO NOT COUNT. so you get pitchers throwing 10 straight change ups, even if they are getting smoked, just to get the feel for the pitch. and young batters treating every AB like life and death, vs. veterans that might be trying to incorporate a revised swing, or decide to spend a week trying to go the other way.
IOW, ST is for getting ready for the season for most players, and make decisions on ST results at your own peril.
hell, taking the “best 25″ based on ST #s is hwo Mejia ended up in the majors last year (something I doubt Bay supported). And Pelf had a lousy spring working on stuff, and was fantastic in April.
a logical plan to me is if a young guy is putting up big numbers, but is blocked by an incumbant that did not, you start the season with the prospect in the minors, and if after 2-4 weeks the trend continues, then you look into a change (like how we got Ike last year).
The worst isn’t over yet. Not unless they are a few games up in the Division by the time the All Star break hits.
The WORST would be if they do not hit as a team early and are not leading the division or even close to it at that time.
Because then the moves will be as fast and furious as a Thompson Sub Machine gun!
Any failure to show a competitive chance in the first half of the season will cause Sandy to make massive trades of our best players in order to get as many prospects that he can groom and deal for the players he wants to rebuild with.
Wright Reyes Beltran maybe even Pelfrey and Bay will be put out there to generate potential deals that will be used to rebuild the franchise!
Not all will get offers, and not all will return great numbers of players. Some like Castillo, Beltran and Reyes if they don’t garner any trade interest will be allowed to walk at the end. At that point even Dickey could be traded mid season.
And just think about what this team would look like with No Reyes or Beltran. (Oh wait we just watched that movie two years in a row didn’t we?)
Is the worst over? Hardly!
Worst case is a firesale and rebuild. 2 to 4 years for that. A lot of losing games while doing it!
Best case is they compete but that doesn’t mean the worst is over. Temporary High at best. You would have to resign Reyes and Beltran to keep it going and do you trust they will do that after they get their big contracts?
So even if we compete and win the World Series we could wind up in a very bad situation for the 2012 off season. If you resign Reyes and Beltran they will be your big FA signings next year not some other coveted pitcher!
So no the worst has not hit us yet. Only questions is when will it hit us or will the guys we have give us one last UP Moment before it does hit us!
the worst was 1977-2003 or so. This stretch is nothing compared to that horror.
and yes, that was supposed to say 1977-1983
oh, and your last point about having to resign guys if they win the WS?
Reyes yes they will try to resign if he performs this year (and I will assume he does if they win the WS!) But Beltran will be sent packing regardless.
so sure, Reyes could be one of the FA signings, but if he is on top of his game, what is wrong with that?
Whats wrong with it?
Well you saw how good we were without Beltran’s big bat last year. We barely tread water!
Resign Reyes and how much money is left to sign another big bat?
Winning the WS this season will not mean the worst is over it will just be a postponing moment before we are right back to where we are now.
140 Mil Salary and hardly even a 50/50 chance to make the Playoffs.
The only thing that will have changed is the fans won’t be able to use the 25 year excuse when they call for the manager or GM to be fired!
The problem this team has is it is not getting enough bang for it’s buck. 140 Mil payroll and they play on a par with the Marlins!
We have 7 of 8 everyday positions filled. more than half of those guys makes up the majority of that 140 Mil payroll.
If we wanted to buy another bat we would have no place to play him unless he played 2B!
Thats not a very good situation to be in if your a GM.
Beltran may very likely go on that point I agree with you.
But all that means is that you lost your BEST bat and will be hard pressed to find a better one to replace him and get more out of the position.
If you want an idea of how hard it will be to replace him just think about who you would have replaced him with this year?
Look at the FA market and tell me who you could pay that would give you the same batting threat?
Beltran with all of his injuries and lack of fire is still one of the best OF’s you can get in the game.
And without a bat as potent as his we have seen last year how good this team is!
It got an entire FO fired!
If the IRS calls and tell you you are going to be audited, do you think the worst is over?
Objection your honor, relevance?
Relax Council. This is but a blogging session.
Withdrawn.
I don’t want to have my hopes up because over the past few seasons my hopes have been let down. All I’m looking for is a strong,positive season and strong out look for 2012 and beyond. Maybe just maybe like I think we’ve all been if everything goes well maybe we compete but its a big maybe.