26
2011
Five Mets That Need To Step Up This Season
An article by 
While basically every player on the 25-man roster will have to play well for the Mets to be competitive, five players in particular will hold major keys to the team’s success in 2011.
In no particular order, Jose Reyes, Jon Niese, Jason Bay, Ike Davis and Frankie Rodriguez will need to bring their A-game to the ballpark every night.
Of course, players like David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Mike Pelfrey, Bobby Parnell, R.A. Dickey, Angel Pagan and Josh Thole will also have to contribute for the team to be successful. However, I feel that the five I mentioned will either make or break the Mets’ season.
I will lead off the discussion with none other than the Mets leadoff hitter, Jose Reyes. Looking at Reyes’ numbers from last year (133 games, .282 BA, 30 SB), you would think that Reyes had a decent year. But looking at some of the important numbers for a leadoff man, Reyes actually had a sub-par year.
He had a .321 OBP, which is way too low for a leadoff man. Good leadoff hitters are usually in the .350-.375 range. Reyes also only drew 31 walks in over 600 plate appearances, which needs to improve.
As Terry Collins has said, Reyes is the most dynamic leadoff man in the game. He has the ability to turn doubles into triples and even has some pop.
If Reyes can come out of the gate hot in 2011, it will set up his teammates with plenty of scoring chances. With many of the question marks of this season focused on the starting pitching, scoring runs early and often could be a perfect cure for that problem.
I’m expecting big things out of Reyes in his contract year. I hope he plays so well that the Mets can’t let him sign elsewhere, and they lock him up long-term.
Heading into his second full season, Jon Niese appears ready to take the next step. He started 30 games last year and even threw a complete-game one-hit shutout.
Naturally, we can’t expect Niese to throw one-hitters every time out. But I would like to see a little more consistency out of the youngster. He finished 9-10 last year with a 4.39 ERA. Though he pitched better than these numbers suggest, there were a few starts where he looked lost.
If he keeps that curveball working and continues to develop his cutter, Niese could win 15 games this year.
After speaking with him at the Holiday Party, Jason Bay is healthy and ready for action following an injury plagued 2010 campaign.
Regardless of the lucrative deal he signed, Bay wants to show this team he can be a productive member for the next four years. It starts this year for Bay. The Mets will need a thumper in the middle of the order.
Carlos Beltran isn’t exactly a thumper, so Bay will need to step up in big situations. That doesn’t necessarily mean hitting home runs all the time. It means driving in clutch runs with two outs and runners in scoring position.
Though he only hit .259 last year, he went through streaks where you simply could not get him out. He drew a fair amount of walks and even hit six triples. He will need to stay healthy and productive for this team to have a shot.
Like Niese, Ike Davis heads into his sophomore season as a major key to success. His power is still developing so it will be interesting to see what happens with him this year.
He will start the season hitting sixth instead of last year, when he hit fourth for much of the year. He should not have the pressure of having to do it all himself, assuming Beltran and Bay are producing.
He needs to be more selective at the plate and cut down on the strikeouts. Also, he should be careful of showing up umpires when a call goes against him.
These are all things though that he can correct. I’m very exciting to see Ike have a huge year in 2011. He has the potential to hit 25 HR and drive in 90-100 runs.
Finally, my discussion of K-Rod will “close” out this post. Plain and simple, K-Rod needs to let his play on the field dictate how he is received by the fans.
Right now, he is still in the doghouse, but if he comes out and dominates the ninth inning, I’m sure the fans will forgive him. Granted, his actions were atrocious, and his punishment probably should have been worse.
But if he can reestablish himself as one of the top closers in the game, K-Rod will regain the support of the Mets’ fan base.
So overall, these five players in particular will be major pieces to the Mets success or (God forbid) failure in 2011.
About the Author: Jim Mancari
Jim Mancari hails from Massapequa, N.Y. He recently earned a Master's degree in Journalism at Hofstra University. He is a devout Mets fan and takes pride in his team, despite their lack of success over the last few years. Like all Mets fans, Jim has plenty of hope. He also writes as the sports reporter for the Brooklyn Tablet newspaper and the senior editor of metroBASEBALL Magazine. Click my name to view my personal website.
85 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
Recent Comments
- DrDooby: on The Future Is Here: Six Scoreless In Wheeler’s MLB Debut: A nice first outing, especially before a...
- ray sadecki: on Mets Acquire Eric Young Jr. For Collin McHugh, DFA Cowgill and Promote Brown: So this is where the core bores...
- Boomer: on Wheeler Deals, Mets Sweep Braves In Nightcap, 6-1: We’ve been waiting for this doubleheader for...
- Mr North Jersey: on Wheeler Deals, Mets Sweep Braves In Nightcap, 6-1: Congrats to Wheeler on his MLB Debut...
- Mick: on The Future Is Here: Six Scoreless In Wheeler’s MLB Debut: There was no way they were making...
Latest From Mets Minors
Check Out These Great MLB Links!
Photographs From Gordon Donovan
Fans Follow Us On Twitter!
1332 Fans Like Us On Facebook!
2341 Fans Read Our Feed!
1702 Fans Subscribe via Daily Email!
Why should any player step up when the overpiad Gm and his band of merry little fired gms failed to step up this Winter? Just like last summer when Omar gifted the overperformming team with Ollie for the stretch drive, this rotten gm has gifted the team with broken down arms, and third rate has beens. The team stopped playing hard from that time, and the same will happen this year. I would bet the only reason anyone wants to step up is to get traded.
lol.
Hoo boy.
Just like last summer when Omar gifted the overperformming team with Ollie for the stretch drive,
Other than barely passing for English, Oliver was signed to an extension in ’09. Last year we signed Jason Bay, which you probably assumed was our “last piece” on our way to a dynasty (after all, we paid him a lot of dough and you’ve heard of him before, that’s the recipe for a winner right?
his rotten gm has gifted the team with broken down arms, and third rate has beens.
Every single new player’s salaries combined doesn’t equal ONE YEAR of Ollie’s contract, so it’s not exactly a good comparison.
But yea, he didn’t sign Cliff Lee and Crawford, so Sandy sucks.
You are a terrible Mets fan.
Iz? I have just one reply… Iz u isn’t close, go somewhere else with your rediculous, childish expectastion levels.
Constructively commenting on the yopic, the author is certainly correct to highlight Jose’s disappointing OBP; but for a team that is supposedly being rededicated to Moneyball concepts. the good news id this, of the proposed/assumed lineup as I perceive it being fulfilled after TC’s first 6 deliniations as:
’10OBP
REYES .321
PAGAN .340
WRIGHT .354
BELTRAN .341
BAY .347
DAVIS .351
EMAUS* .397
THOLE* .357
PITCHER N/A
*My best guesses based upon extrapulating Collins’ rational for 1 thru 6
As u can clearly see Jose’s depressed OBP from last yr constuitues the lowest OBP from 2010 to appear in the entire proposed lineup, though it should be noted Brad Emaus’ .397 is his career attainmment in the Minors.
I truly believe Reyes’ OBP suffered through his immature impatience caused by his having missed so many oportunities while disabled. While maturity is not tru;ly relative to age, it does seem to bode well that Collins has “called Reyes’ out by annointing him one of if not THE best players in MLB today!
While too many naysayers point to Reyes’ past disappointments too few ever truly vet those expectations with a reality check. Comparing pre-prime production players to prime production goals is rarely an oportunity for success. with PRIME PRDUCTIVITY for MLB position players being generally accepted as between ages 28 & 32, 2011 appears to be a confluence of optimum circumstances favoring a MONSTER year from the enigmatic yet electrigfying ignition switch for these NYM. Reyes is entering the very first of his typically 4 yrs of top productivity @ age 28 & doing so in tip-top physical condition having already conditioned his “Achiles heal” hamstrings with a incidentless 2010 season. With an equally energetic manager positioning the very first accomplished potential hitting threat directly behind him at anytime in his career where he was perpetually shadowed by the likes of LoDuca,Matsui,Castillo,Tejada as punch & Judy ‘advancers’ designed to advance him uselessly rather than drive him home.
None of that considers the [potential positive incentive typically provided by CONTRACT YEARS.
No one should interpret any of this as cause for an overly optimistic consideration to atticipate a Postsseason berth at any level. My personal expectation level is an OPTIMISTIC shot at second place, short of W/C contention @ 85 victories.
a positive (for the chances of the mets doing well in 2011) is that the OBPs for reyes, Beltran, Wright and bay were all way below the prior year and career norms. so, quite reasonable to expect that they can all rebound which would be a fine thing to happen.
Amen 62. I think that, as you stated, with Jose getting off to a good start it will bring confidence back to lineup plus hopefully his discipline follows him to SS.
I have always been a Jose fan and am looking forward to a great year.
Niese was over used by Jerry in Sep, you could see he was struggling and I wonder why Warthens did not say something to Jerry?
Ike needs to wk on his long swing but still he produced with that long swing so some adjustment will help him.
K Rod is an enigma for Mets and fans cause of his built in contract proviso that kicks in when he makes or finishes a certain amount of games over 2 years I think. Dumb contract Omar!
Jason needs to talk to David to work on the Citi field demons and just accept that certain balls will not leave the park.
Sarge, Re. Bay’s struggles ALL he needs to do is be reminded that PNC & Citi are equally vast & look at how he raked @ PNC!
I think he just grew accostumed to tyhat Lil’ Wall in Boston(lol)
’62, I could really see some mix of Emaus/Paulino at the top vs. LHP and Pagan/Thole against RHP. Not saying Reyes doesn’t hit leadoff but no way Pagan (.298 OB) vs. LHP should be at the top and if Reyes doesn’t get OB better against RHP there’s not going to be enough guys on when Wright, Beltran and Bay DO hit HR’s.
Arguably, having guys at the bottom of the order that can put themselves into scoring position on their own (via SB) and then following them up with singles hitters like Thole for instance, will score more runs, unclogs the bases, gives them more chances to steal because of more pitches seen, pushes them up a base without risk (by taking the walk) and adds more base runners, more often, for the double and HR guys following them and having contact hitters behind them allows for the H+R which at the very least eliminates the DP and opens holes in the infield.
The risk of the SB is lest costly and the payoff more beneficial in front of the singles hitter than the HR hitter.
I agree that Reyes by having uninterrupted playing time will add walks, bunts and infield singles and increase that OB but at the very least I would bat Pagan lower against LHP and use Emaus or Paulino in the 2.
T, I may be absolutely incorrect; but it would seem that TC has clearly indicated a personal preference for a set lineup, especially through the first 6. Certainly ’10 numbers need improvement & since many of those u rightfully question are particularly sub-norm for them,(Reyes’OBP for example), I truthdully must implore everyone to at least wait & see what we actually have in both mngt & personnel. One of the beautiful things about sub-30 yr old players is their penchant for improving with age.(REYES,WRIGHT,DAVIS,EMAUS,THOLE,ETC(25 of 40 man are <30 yrs old, DOB since 1982)
’62, I hear you about the potential for improving and Collins probably will go with a set line up but my preference would be to incorporate platoon splits into that “set” line up.
Facing a LHP, I’d at least flip Pagan for Emaus at 2 from the RHP line up with Murphy and Paulino at the bottom and I might go even more radical than that, but then again I have a bias in favor of platoon splits which may not be appropriate in all circumstances.
Overall I think Collins will strive for as much consistency as possible.
Got to attend to Mother Nature now ’62. Talk to you later.
T, I WOULD ALSO PREFER MORE PERCENTAGE FLEXIBILITY IN THE LINEUP; BUT HE’S MORE EXPERIENCED & YET TO MNG HIS FIRST GAME WITH THIS CREW, SO WE’LL HAVE TO SEE WHICH WAY HE CHOOSES AS HIS MOST EFFECTIVE.
I’m with you on that one Agee. If Pagan is hitting second against lefties it will be a damn crime.
I agree that the lineup should change slightly for LH vs. RH sp. And that is actually pretty common for teams to do.
pagan is a great candidate to move. Pronounced splits, and he is multi dimensional (some pop + speed/OB) so he could easliy hit 1, 2, 6, 7 .
Always, slotting Angel neareer the back of the ineup is foolishly discarding the huge + his speed affords u; however it would necessitate slotting a much slower player near the top besides also “stealing” an extra ab away from a very productive player batting nearer the top supplys 1 more ab/G to those prductive players. the bottom third loses that ab bonus, thus destroying the myth at a highspeed productive bat slotted 9 is an extra leadoff hitter since there’s that important ab discrepancy.
’62, Your only talking about 40 AB’s at most that would be “lost” by a top of the order hitter, hitting 7th or 8th against LH starting pitchers.
Pagan’s BA and OB are weak against LHP, I don’t see that changing although I will remain open to that possibility. His SLG is good against LHP and his position, defense and base running dictate that he play everyday.
With a high BA OB bat in the line up like (supposedly Emaus and Paulino) why wouldn’t you give more AB’s to the guys who get OB a lot better than .298.
Speed and stolen bases are overrated in front of guys who hit HR’s. They’re far more valuable in front of singles hitters. There far more common in front of PATIENT singles hitters, and after having put themselves in scoring position, can then score on a single.
A speedy #2 hitter is a luxury. What you want there most is BA and OB, patience to allow for the chance of a steal and a good doubles hitter.
Pagan is a very good choice for either leadoff or #2 against RHP, but there are better choices against LHP for the top of the order.
For a team as run starved as we have been over the last few years to leave any runs on the table is not possible.
T, don’t we still play in CITI? based on that are there any HR hitters? aren’t safer considering EVERYONE a singles hitter & since when is LHP in such a high volume to be considered so dramatically? and I certainly wouldn’t consider Angels RHH performances stella @ .261/.298/.394 I certainly wouldn’t totally disregard them either. by placing a cementfoot #2 u are trashing the RBI potentials from 3.4,5. I’m prety certain Gil never considered Kranepool a viability for #2 for that very reason.
’62, Speed is a luxury at #2. I want doubles and long counts. High BA, high OB. I’m not stealing in front of Wright, Beltran, Davis and Bay anyway. Give me lots of 1st and 3rd, 2nd and 3rd with no outs or runner on 2B 1 out.
Your stolen bases belong in front of your singles hitters, not your HR hitters.
Can I ask when you say “make or break” what would constitute make and what would constitute break?
playoff contention (think 2007) vs. what they did in 2010?
I feel this team will have to have a personality much like this years NY Rangers-grinding, consistent effort and execution. That type of mentality will keep them competitive-not contending, given what Philly has in their rotation, but competitive.
Nice article but my one complaint is, of course, the new way of “stat-speak” which gives the reader less information. It makes no sense to say Reyes had 31 walks in over 600 plate appearances because the reader is left guessing how many ABs he had. I grew up saying At Bats and it’s still better.
If you say 31 walks in 563 ABs, you know 2 things about the player and if you feel you must know the plate appearances simply add it up, and throw in a couple of HBP if u want. I don’t need to know plate appearances, i’d rather separate walks and ABs. It’s not good the other way around. Knowing the exact ABs is better.
I want to know that Barry Bonds hit 73 HRs in 476 ABs (besides it’s cooler to know it that way)
not 664 plate appearances because if you say it the latter way then you don’t have to list his walks separately and it was very important to know he walked 177 times that year and basically you do a disservice to your reader and the player by not telling him those details.
This new way of just giving general info is bad if you want to learn about a player because it leaves the reader guessing. The old way was obviously much better because you get specific stats about the player and you get to learn really what he does – not a “general idea” or in other cases a “text message” abbreviated version that’s throws so many things into one.
If a reader thinks I”m making a big deal out of nothing here, I disagree because I see the game i know and love growing up being reduced to abbreviations and general stat speak and details about player performance is being overlooked. Not good.
So, its not that you don’t like “stat speak” its that you aren’t used to the new stats. I really don’t get your argument about ABs vs PAs.
PAs are bad because they don’t give you a specific detail, but ABs are good ebcause they leave certain details out? It really isn’t difficult either way. ABs= PA-(BB+IBB+HBP+Sac) PAs= AB+BB+IBP+HBP+Sac.
And no one really looks at just those stats. They are a starting point so we can figure out percentages.
I think you are either unwilling to at least try and learn something new, unaware of some the reasoning behind the new stats, or both.
I’m aware of what’s new, that’s why I’m commenting on it, I think some new stats are legitimate like WHIP, I like a pitcher’s ERA after a losing streak which somebody (I think Metzilla) listed here before..SLG & OBP have always been there just used too much these days, especially the latter – which please let’s not get into now i’m sure we’ll be fighting about that a lot in the future. SLG I don’t mind – that’s always been used anyway..in the proper context. And there’s a couple others just can’t think of now but you get my point.
I prefer ABs because it’s it’s own stat and I prefer to know the walks, HBP, IBB separately. Plate appearances has always been there too but but because of a different way of thinking now it’s gaining momentum and it fits the “group everything together” crowd just fine. I think combining the stats the way they do now is counterproductive but it also reflects the society we live in now so it’s not just baseball. Everything is being abbreviated, lol. I text msg too, i make my living using the latest technology but I know where to draw the line..at least for me.
Group everything together? Are you high? If anything, stats get broken down to a finer point than ever before. One of the basic ideas behind advanced statistics is to divide everything down to its simplest elements. You can’t rebuild and rearrange your data until you have the fundamental building blocks.
Batting average combines too much, because it declares a single is as good as a home run. Thats why we use slugging percentage (which is still flawed). WHIP is better than ERA, but still flawed. Thats why now, statistitions try and break down pitching performances to things like walks, strike outs and home runs.
“Everything is being abbreviated”
As opposed to the “good old days” when they used real words like RBI, AVG, K, BB, ERA etc etc
Well Donal not to get too involved in this but by saying plate appearances and using walks you make the situation sound worse than it might possibly be which is adding a bias to the statement.
Saying Reyes had only 31 walks in 600 PA means nothing because you are not saying what he did in the other 568 PAs. What if he hit .350? Does only 31 walks look bad if thats the case? Hell NO! His OBP would be close to .400
Cherry picking two numbers and comparing is a manipulation of the stats not a good way to tell the truth.
OBP is never a product of walking a lot it is usually a product of hitting a lot and then getting some extra walks as a result.
If you want to use PA thats fine but you can’t leave out huge tracts of information that is relevant to that larger number.
If the guy had a .400 OBP but only 10 walks would he need to walk more too? Just because he is a leadoff hitter?
Getting on base is important for a player, Walking is not unless thats the only way you can get on base.
Why did Reyes not walk so much?
Cause no one ever pitches around Reyes! They throw strikes and try and get him out!
You can’t draw a walk unless the pitcher throws balls!
So walking more is never something a player can control it is dependent on what the pitchers give you.
Now if Reyes was making an out on ball 4 often that would be one story, but that really isn’t the case.
They just didn’t walk him they instead threw him down in the zone hoping he would ground out. The way to keep reyes off the bases is to make him earn his way on. And that means throwing strikes. If the guy throws stikes no way you can draw a walk no matter how hard you try!
That isn’t really what I was saying. I simply pointed out Bayonne’s faulty reasoning.
Like I said, PAs are simply a good starting point.
No,
ABs are. If you just look at the old line of AB, R, H, D, T, HR, RBI, AVG., BB, K, SB, HBP….oh okay throw OBP in there as well. It’s an old stat, just who’s importance is being blown out of proportion recently.
That line will tell you everything. I can look at that and good a good idea how good a slugger a guy is – don’t need to know the slugging pct. I can look at that and see if he BBs a lot and so on.
I think starting with PAs is cheap. That’s why they never did it for 150 years. Why now? Because we have more technological toys?
I want to know that Barry Bonds hit 74 HRs in 476 ABs with 177 walks and NOT that he hit 73 HRs in 664 plate appearances. It’s not right.
Besides we grew up with the infatuation of HRs per At Bats.
Plate appearances takes that away – It’s OVER – practical.
You realize what you say makes no sense, right? That you simply get yourself twisted in knots over an aesthetic preference?
Why is it that if I say Barry bonds drew 177 walks and hit 74 HRs in 664 PAs, it is somehow “cheaper” than saying he hit 75 HRs and drew 177 walks in 476 ABs?
Its 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other.
A lot of times those walks are a result of being pitched around and it’s probably why they separated walks from ABs in the FIRST PLACE! Because it’s not really an AT Bat if they’re not pitching to you if you want to think that way. I can understand it.
Growing up, it was always fun to see how many HRs a guy hit per AB. Especially guys like Ken Phelps, Oscar Gamble. I was always interested in players who had limited ABs but hit lost of HRS.
Saying plate appearances takes that all away and gives you FALSE impression of a hitter. That’s why it’s good to have walks separate.
“A lot of times those walks are a result of being pitched around and it’s probably why they separated walks from ABs in the FIRST PLACE! Because it’s not really an AT Bat if they’re not pitching to you if you want to think that way. I can understand it.”
What? That makes no sense at all. You’re just putting words onto your keyboard now.
It’s just your speciffic aesthetic preferance. No more, no less.
“Growing up, it was always fun to see how many HRs a guy hit per AB. Especially guys like Ken Phelps, Oscar Gamble. I was always interested in players who had limited ABs but hit lost of HRS.”
And you still can’t do that because…you’re lazy?
“Saying plate appearances takes that all away and gives you FALSE impression of a hitter. That’s why it’s good to have walks separate.”
So, seperate them. Its fine. Most advance sites still list ABs. If I go to a site that lists ABs instead of PAs and I want to figure out OBP, I just add his BB to his ABs to get his PAs. I don’t go nuts, I don’t get outraged. It’s 2 seconds of time I’m wasting anyway.
I can tell how good a guy is getting on base by looking at AB, AVG and BBs…it’s not necessary to know the exact number of the on base percentage. There’s no need for it.
Wait, you can tell how good a player is by looking at his stats?
and for some purposes, it is important to figure out OBP.
Gamble and Phelps are classic examples of players with HUGE platoon splits. Paired with an opposite handed RFer or DH over the course of the season gives you the best of both worlds 90% of the time. Basically their HR/AB was off the charts because they only faced pitchers with the platoon advantage.
This is a result of the GM handing to the manager a well conceived roster and the manager using it to his best advantage.
I would agree that Bonds was given the opportunity to get himself out if he so chose and the 177 walks were a result of his not choosing to. I would also say that those 177 extra base runners (with 177 less outs) increased the Giants chances of scoring dramatically even with him being pitched around.
Rickey Henderson on the other hand is a guy no pitcher ever wanted to walk and yet he is the 2nd all time leader in walks (first in runs) How did that happen? Longetivity certainly played a role as did the fact that you couldn’t just lay one in to him but considering that a walk guaranteed that Rickey would be on base and making him hit only put him on base 30% of the time how did he get on so often?
Number 1, he didn’t swing at pitches off the plate. Number 2, the Umpires respected his strike zone judgement. Number 3, He actively sought to take the walk when it was presented to him.
He would even turn his head toward the umpire as he was following the ball in the glove and without saying a word, wait expectantly for the pitch to be called a ball, asserting, without saying a word, each time he did it that if HE thought it was a ball then so should they.
If the All Time leader in runs scored actively sought to get on by ANY means possible including seeking the free pass why should leadoff hitters who aren’t going to the Hall of Fame turn their nose up at them?
No,
All I’m saying is if you look at AVG, AB, BB you don’t need to know the exact number off the on base percentage. It’s always worked before. If he’s hitting .240 w/45 walks in 457 ABs I already know what I’m dealing with so knowing the exact OBP is not necessary.
Add to that HR, D, T then I won’t even have to know the slg percentage too. I can judge that against his BA, AVG.
But If you want a quick “text” about the guy than it’s okay to say “such and such” has a slg pct of .487. But to really KNOW the player more you have to look at the breakdown.
So, BA gives you the breakdown but OBP doesn’t?
Really? You can tell what kind of hitter you’ve got from BA and ABs?
So, you choose to ignore the fact that BA doesn’t tell you what kind of hits the player in question was getting.
It’s pointless Donal. his baseball IQ is minimal and nothing anyone says is going to change that because he is too stubborn to learn new things. You’re beating a dead horse. I stopped awhile ago.
So, BA gives you the breakdown but OBP doesn’t?
Well in regards to HITTING…YES!
If a guy has one PA and an OBP of 1.000 can you tell what he did at the plate?
And OBP doesn’t tell you what base he got either. SLG might in the one PA example but if there are two or even three PA SLG doesn’t tell you anything either!
So in what I guess Bayonne is arguing, in some cases the PA, BA, and all the other traditional stats are needed. Because those are the PRIME stats all the other metrics are created from!
But thats about all I intend to get involved in this fest betw you and bayone! LOL
Not questioning PA as a starting point, just saying that basing his Walks to PA doesn’t tell a very good picture regarding Reyes Ability to get on base. The OBP is fone for that, should he bring that number up? YES!
HOW he does it is inconsequential!
I would prefer he hit .050 points higher which would elevate OBP just as much as more walks would but might also drive in more runs! And if that happened the extra walks would be a natural extention from that since they will be as concerned about him hitting in the batters box as they are now about him running if he gets on!
OBP will NEVER be lower than your BA! So if he gets his BA up how often he walks won’t matter because the OBP is right up there with the rest of the leadoff hitters in the league!
And oddly the truth is inverse. It is NEVER the leadoff guy who has the high OBP in the league it is always some slugger who hits for high average and gets walked a little more often so he can’t burn you with the bat and runniers on!
You got involved enough, Metsie. You explained it perfectly. And you’re right, I never even thought of that – it’s the big slugger who can hit and hit for power that usually has the highest OBP anyway.
But at that point, nobody cares to know the exact number of the percentage of times you get on base. Putting it that way even makes is sound MORE ridiculous. I could care less about that because i’m too busy counting his RBIs – That’s the important thing.
Baseball was described as a game of numbers long before you were born Bayonne and it will be the same way long after your gone. At one time, probably in your lifetime, numbers were the only way to keep track of many New Yorkers favorite teams. Box scores, visit’s to Shea (or the Polo Grounds) and the odd Game of the Week were the only way for anyone to compare Mays, Marachial, McCovey to Synder, Hodges and Kofax.
I saw plenty of the traditional stats in the article. HR’s, BA, RBI, and it doesn’t bother me to see it written as 31 walks in over 600 plate appearances one bit. In fact I think by putting it as such accentuates just how poor a job in that area Reyes did as a leadoff hitter last year and when your discussing OB% PA’s is what is relevant, not AB’s.
Reyes is not going to ever be a .350 hitter. He’s also not going to be a Ron Hunt type, the only way for him to get OB at an acceptable level for a leadoff hitter is to start working his AB’s for free passes and bunting with no one on and adding those two things to his game would not only drive up his OB, it would also get him more good pitches to hit which would drive up his OB even more as well as his BA.
The fact that Reyes’ OB is trending down and is currently below NL average (which includes pitchers as well as the 14 guys on last years Met Roster that got OB less than TWO of the starting pitchers) is cause for alarm and there is no good reason for him to be lumped in with the Tejada’s, Francouers and Blanco’s. He’s not an unprepared rookie, he’s not an “RBI producer” and he’s not a catcher in there for his defense. He’s hitting lead off. He’s a run scorer and one of the most desruptive offensive threats in the game WHEN he gets OB. Everyone from T-ball on up can tell you what the leadoff man’s first responsibility is and he’s not doing it even at NL average for ALL the spots in the order let alone leadoff.
We weren’t talking about how to fix Reyes here.
And I used to love stats too, I used to run my own Strat-O-Matic leagues and I kept all the teams’s stats….every player. But it’s way out of control now and it’s mainly due to people making a science of looking DEEP into marginal players performances. It’s more useful, I guess, if you want to use it that way.
his 2010 was more of a fluke than anything else (an outlier), not a trend.
from 2006-2009, his OBP every year (in about 2300 PAs) ranged from .352-.358. Basically a very large sample size, and the picture of consistency.
2010, he basically had no ST (after missing almost a full year), dealt with the 3 hole issue (for however that impacted his approach) and had to play for a while with a pulled muscle when he should have been shut down. No wonder his OBP was lower.
But, once he got in the groove, over the last 2/3 of the season his OBP was ~.345, so actually pretty close to normal (and that included the stretch where he was playing wrapped up, and couldn’t switch hit).
given all that, the fact that he seems to be 100% now, reaching peak age, and is in a contract year, I expect him to have a break out, huge year. And that includes his OBP going back where it used to be, and if he gets focused correctly, hopefully it ticks up a bit.
reyes had what, 214 hits a couple of years ago. If he can go back to that and tick the OBP up over .370, he could be looking at MVP consideration.
Exactly,
When Reyes is healthy and hitting he’s fine. If you’re in the dugout you can tell him to be patient on a daily basis but he is what he is.
Again he leads off once a game, the rest of the game he’s good for driving in runs cuz of his gap power. You don’t want to change that so you have to be careful, and if he leads off again in the 6th inning than he can change his approach accordingly.
For everything that happened to Reyes last year, and it was a LOT, he still put up good numbers. Obviously if he was healthy the numbers would have been different.
Bayonne, if what u say has any fraction of truth in it, why does most every basball analyst consider an existance of a PRIME PRODUCTIVITY period a statement of fact? by mere admission as to the existance of such an entity doesn’t it portend to mean that perhaps Reryes’ failures were due more to irrational comparatives to achiebvement levels he had quite grown into yet? Exactly how many dumb NY media types have found Reyes or even Wright wanting after they do the usual comparisons to Jeter? I’m also perplexed that this phenomenon only seems to pertain to NYM homies as I’ve seen very few NYcentric comparisons of Cano to say Alomar’s Cleveland days.
I’m very comfortable in proclaiming my belief that Reyes’ past has been mere prologue to what we have in store for us!
Reyes’ future won’t be in store for us 62fan. This is his last year as a Met. And all those celebratory fringe fans will proclain victory as the Mets get 2 whole draft picks or 4 mediocre “prospects”. Sandy has to wait. He just doesn’t have the balls to take any chance on anything. A losing recipe for a business in any realm, much less one needing the support of millions of fans who can spend their discretionary money in oh so many ways.
Too many have already decided to not give Fred Wilpon their money. So I just can’t wait until the 11 Alderson loyalists figure out a way to make up for the hundreds of thousands who won’t spend on the Mets now.
“Reyes’ future won’t be in store for us 62fan. This is his last year as a Met.”
Well, aren’t you a ray of sunshine. Are you Jose’s agent? If so, how are the negotiations going, Mr Greenburg?
“And all those celebratory fringe fans will proclain victory as the Mets get 2 whole draft picks or 4 mediocre “prospects”. ”
Who the hell is saying that? Seriosously, give me some quotes or something.
“Sandy has to wait. He just doesn’t have the balls to take any chance on anything. A losing recipe for a business in any realm, much less one needing the support of millions of fans who can spend their discretionary money in oh so many ways.”
You know, I don’t think “doesn’t have the balls” is the way I would describe a decorated Vietnam vet who helped usher in an entire new paradigm of talent evaluation into MLB. Also, Sandy has to remain competitve while cleaning out the toxic remnants of a failed regime. It wasn’t a very deep free agent market anyway.
“Too many have already decided to not give Fred Wilpon their money. ”
Ya, I’m sure that is 4 months of 1 off season of Sandy Alderson and not 6 full years of Omar Minaya.
“So I just can’t wait until the 11 Alderson loyalists figure out a way to make up for the hundreds of thousands who won’t spend on the Mets now.”
You blaming Alderson for the last two years of sub .500 ball?
I was at Citi Field quite a bit both in 2009 and 2010. I’ve probably been to 25 games over those two years and I know the park lends itself to walking around and such, but there were no crowds of people milling around, hanging out. No long lines at the Shake Shack, Blue Smoke, Beer stand. The parking field was not just empty it was barren. I expected to see tumbleweeds blowing through there on my way to the game. There were empty seats everywhere I looked. 10% of the seats were full most games I saw.
The difference between the projected income and the realized income must have been a couple of billion dollars over 2 years. I’m sure they sold a lot more tickets but nobody used them. Each ticket holder is good for, on average say, $50 and instead of having 35,000 they had 10, 15,000. That’s a loss of over a million dollars a game, and trust me many people spend WAY more than $50 so by the time its all said and done that’s why the argument put forth by some that the Wilpon’s are going to feel it financially because they didn’t spend even more money this offseason is ludicrous. The Wilpon’s haven’t gotten back s**t on their investment on the Stadium or their investment on the players. Not one friggen thing. Just grief and heartache.
No matter how many of you stay away, I’ll guarantee you 90% of you stayed away the last 2 years because all I saw was empty trains, empty parking fields, no lines, no people and empty seats.
So stay away, who needs people like you around anyway. You guys remind me of women that spend their whole vacation shopping for trinkets instead of having any fun.
The fact is the Wilpon’s are not like the De Roulet’s. They have spent a fortune trying to have a good team. Granted they have gone about it in the most imbesilic fashion possible time and time again, but at least they have tried. Now that their hopefully going to attempt to BUILD a team that can compete year after year and that might entail a year or two of nothing much to talk about over the winter your talking about jumping ship. Well I’ll tell, from where I was hanging out at Citi it looks to me like you already did, a couple of years ago.
Citi Field is easy to get to, relatively inexpensive, has free things for kids to do, good food, is clean and has the all time single season Met HR hitter for another year, 3 or 4 guys in the starting line up that have received MVP votes, another that will hopefully be back who has won a Cy Young Award, a guy who easily could have won a gold glove in CF last year, a handful of promising young players and this year will have a well conceived bench of guys that can at least do a few things and who won’t be DFA’d mid season like our bench was last year.
For anywhere from $20 on up you can enjoy the day with your favorite team, family and friends and have a great time even if the expectations are lower this year than in years past, and if the $20 is too much for you to spend because you weren’t given a bauble to slobber over this off season then all I can say is that same $20 dollars was too much for you to spend the last 2 years also, even with expensive baubles like Putz, K-Rod, and Bay to slobber over all January, February and March, cause I was there and saw it with my own eyes, a couple of dozen times. I was there and most of you weren’t.
agee, i’ve been to about ten games and never saw it as empty as you describe it.
Francis,
August and September it has been a complete ghost town. Weekend afternoon games, midweek night games, forget Thursday afternoon.
Opening week, May and June, Yankees, Phillies, Braves, your right. 30,000 – 38,000 but that’s only 25% of the season. The rest of the time it’s been dead.
Saturdays and Sundays in September have been so sparsely attended I couldn’t believe it.
wouldn’t know about those games, i wasn’t there either, except for the weekends where the tennis was across the street.
i guess i’m part of the problem.
i think most people draw the line at about 7 games back after the break. i don’t blame them.
Hey, Donal, if you want to blindly think that Sandy Alderson has a plan to keep Reyes that’s you choice. However, if you want to act like a grown up then you should you use your brain and you will see that Reyes is soon to be history. As for your BS demands about what I should do you can shove them where the sun don’t shine. You don’t like a post show something more than your third grade education if you want a decent response. Until then you get treated like the poor trash talker you are.
Look, Omar, I know you are pissed off about being fired and now Alderson won’t give you a call and offer you a job, but you need to move on.
Your way failed. Not only did you fail to make the Mets legit contenders, you punished the farm system, alienated fans and embarrassed yourself to the press.
So Alderson chooses not to communicate with his players through the media like you did. He just feels its better to talk to Reyes’ agent behind closed doors like most business deals happen.
Seriously, if you have to lie about other people and what they say to make your position look good, then maybe its time rethink your position.
And one last thing: I am an exquisite trash talker.
You have a crystal ball too?
Amazing how good they are right? The entire media market are still wondering what the results of Reyes free agency will be cause little do they know that you can get crystal balls on Amazon that predict the future right?
Does your say where he will sign and for how much?
Harry, as a fan who’s weathered the storms of Seavers 2 departures, the K Gen disintegration, Koosmans back to back 20 game seasons 20Ws followed by 20Ls, the non-fulfillments of Doc & Straw, the death of Gil, the abandonment of Davey I pray you are totally wrong & hope Alderson chooses to make Reyes his first big investment as he is one of a kind, who’s only “sin” was being younger than the expectations loaded upon his shoulders. a pox on the houses of those who nitpick his immaturity at the cost of his enthusiasm.
Harry, for all the so called statisticians that supposedely roam these cyberhalls it never ceases to confound me how few can not solve a simple cause & effect math problem such as deciphering AllStar players typically don’t slide or run out every gb often due to babying a nagging injury they’re nursing. Does it call for higher math to calculate that mere days after Beltran is castigated for not sliding, he’s suddenly sidelined with bum knees? or that Reyes may not tear it up trying to beat out a 2 out nobofy on rudimentary toss from 2B to 1B has anything to do with his sudden lameness or that a touted prospect frustrated by his inanbility to contribute should suddenly braincramp frustratingly when he pops up a meat & potatoes oportunity?
It never ceases to confound me why NYM fans devour their young while NYY fans refute any comparatives between Cano & a young Alomar’s CLE days. still raining MVP chants on their sometinmes asleep homey in lieu of vilification! I sometimes wonder exactly how the lemming class of current fans would’ve sided back in ’77 on the Massacre issue though nearly every one fashionably vilifies mngt in hindsight(because they’re ‘expected’ to?) Are Madden and his collegues choosing to peddle ‘Youngish’ fishwrap through headlining our faults despite reason since they peddle just as many with condemnations as through puff support pieces when winning rules the NYC NL realm.
Harry, sorry for the rambling metaphors; but These Mets sans Reyes will be a revisitation of the DARKEST DAYS in the desert Davey once rescued us from.
I just don’t understand today’s fans who root for Piazza as a Padre yet boo Jose in his development under toughest conditions. God, please help us!
Tag – Just a theoretical here for you, as I think people have this whole walking thing backwards.
If a pitcher does not throw 4 balls at you, then how can you manage to work out more walks?
I’ll try it from the opposite direction too…
If Pelfrey walks two straight batters was it a failure of Pelfrey or an accomplishment of the batters that walked?
See what I’m getting at?
They do not pitch AROUND Reyes. If Reyes only see’s strikes then there is no way for him to walk more. And they do throw strikes at Reyes. They try to pitch him low in the zone hoping he grounds out because they know it is better to let Reyes earn his way on via hit than it is to play around and possibly walk him.
It’s very hard to walk when the pitcher is not throwing you a ball to not swing at!
If we were talking about Francouer or Wright it would be a very different story however!
But on the flip side, Reyes certainly isn’t getting 100% strikes thrown his way.
Plate discipline isn’t always about getting the walk, but if you are 1-2 and have discipline enough to watch some pitches (if they’re out of the zone of course) to bring it to 3-2, you up your chances to get a pitch you can hit. And players with the reputation of not swinging at balls in the dirt generally get better pitches, and more opportunities to get hits.
It’s definitely hard to solidify one way or the other, because you can’t assume Oliver Perez only pitches to guys with perfect plate discipline (because he seems to walk everyone), and you also can’t assume if Halladay walks someone it’s because he completely lost control regardless of who he was pitching to.
You can only do what you can with Reyes and I’m sure he’s reminded about it all the time. The problem with that is Reyes leads off only once a game, the rest of the game Reyes can become an RBI machine. He has gap power, he can be a hacker so you don’t want to take that part of his game away.
You have to be careful with this new thing that you want EVERY PLAYER to have plate discipline and get more walks. Sure, it looks easy on paper but it’s not. I’m sure ALL players have to deal with that everyday, but everybody is different and some player’s strength and style as a free swinger is what got them to the majors and most likely it’s something they’re gonna stick with. Every player matures differently and adapts differently but trying to make EVERYBODY follow the same template is never a good idea because probably they already know about what you want them to do.
That’s why i believe a lot of newer fans who believe in this saber stuff and have this infatuation with OPB think baseball is that easy and that everybody should be able to just do it. What is happening is a newer generation of fan that in reality does not understand what baseball is really all about and what makes it work. To them it’s reading the stats AFTER the results and thinking – well this is what should be done. They don’t have a true understanding of what it takes to achieve those numbers in the first place.
That’s baseball.
I’m sorry, what? Please stop your lies. It is very unbecoming.
You’ve made your point over and over. It’s all over your head. We get it.
What I said is not lies – it’s what i truly believe is what’s happening. I believe the current trend leads to LESS intelligent baseball fans but hey…..If I’m MLB I don’t mind – anything to attract more customers.
Less intelligent fans??? Are you expletive deleted-ing kidding me??!?!?
Dude, you use things like “guys who know how to hit” as what you’re looking for in baseball players, and when I asked you exactly what that meant, you just kept saying “you know what I’m talking about.”
No, actually I don’t. Major League players in general “know how to hit the ball” and you had no explanation for what differentiates players in your mind. That’s not “innate knowledge of the game,” it’s just laziness on your part to actually look up anything you talk about.
For the love of god man, we still have some old school baseball guys using pitcher wins and losses as the FIRST thing they look at to see if a pitcher is good or not. THAT, my friend, is unintelligent.
Just because you have a sheet of paper with a lot of funny calculations doesn’t mean your intelligent baseball wise.
The real knowledge comes with what to do to get a player to arrive at those numbers. How they arrive at those numbers. And that’s just scratching the surface. Then we have in-game managment, but that’s another story.
My point is just because you know every player in the league and all his numbers doesn’t mean you know the game and more and more, and now with the internet, fans see those numbers, love them, study them, and then think they know the game. And they don’t. YOU may have a better understanding of the game but I can envision newer fans who love the numbers so much not bothering to really know how the game works.
“You have to be careful with this new thing that you want EVERY PLAYER to have plate discipline and get more walks.”
good plate discipline doesn’t necessarily mean a lot of walks. They certainly are related, but it really means just good command of the strike zone
“Sure, it looks easy on paper but it’s not. I’m sure ALL players have to deal with that everyday, but everybody is different and some player’s strength and style as a free swinger is what got them to the majors and most likely it’s something they’re gonna stick with. Every player matures differently and adapts differently but trying to make EVERYBODY follow the same template is never a good idea because probably they already know about what you want them to do.”
Nobody has been asking for such a thing. We all know players fill certain roles that play to their strengths. But, lead off is a role that requires discipline. Your top of the order should not be striking out 150+ times a year.
“That’s why i believe a lot of newer fans who believe in this saber stuff and have this infatuation with OPB think baseball is that easy and that everybody should be able to just do it.”
And that is a complete lie.
“What is happening is a newer generation of fan that in reality does not understand what baseball is really all about and what makes it work. ”
No, you have a generation of fans that are getting a deeper understanding of the game. That don’t just take the word of some stuck up old white guys to tell them how it works without questions.
“To them it’s reading the stats AFTER the results and thinking – well this is what should be done. They don’t have a true understanding of what it takes to achieve those numbers in the first place.”
What a load of crap. People will always appreciate the skill and dedication it takes to excel at the professional level. Its why we do this in the first place. Because we love the game and want to understand it on a deeper level.
“That’s baseball.”
Thats a load of crap.
Just because I value plate discipline doesn’t mean I think it’s easy. I really don’t follow your logic on that one.
And also (and I really need you to hear me on this one) hoping a player works on plate discipline DOES NOT MEAN I WANT TO SEE THEM WALK 100 EXTRA TIMES. If I’m a pitcher and I know the batter swings at everything (coughcoughFrancoeurcoughcough), I’m going to feel more confident pitching outside the zone, so that batter doesn’t get as many pitches to hit.
And I’ll bet you’d agree with the idea that high strike out counts are a bad thing…well that’s just as much a part of plate discipline as walking a lot.
You’re right about Frenchy. But I think a guy like him is gonna try and stick to what got him here in the first place. I would try to talk to him more than a guy like Reyes if I were batting coach.
Reyes doesn’t need to be fixed – you can only remind him to take it easy everyday you come to the field. But I would not fool with Reyes TOO much because he’s an RBI guy in the middle of the game and if he has to lead off again, like the 6th inning, he can adjust himself accordingly (bunt, try to make the pitcher work – DEPENDING on the score, things like that)
Francoeur, in my opinion, is a guy I think can use a overhaul. He DOES have age in his favor though, he’s still young.
I’ve had about as much of this socalled “plate discipline BS as I can tolerate & I strobgly suggest that EVERY one of you that are so constipated over plate discipline & patience who complained endlessly about the game 7 called strike should immediately slit your wrists in apology!
62,
All this “plate discipline” and OBP talk makes these people feel like they understand the game. It’s easy for them in theory so therefore they know the game. False.
As far as I’m concerned it’s a lot more about hitting in a 2-1 count rather than a 1-2 count. That 1 borderline pitch that you take (that you probably couldn’t do much with anyway) puts you in a position to A) get a pitch you CAN do something with and B) puts you up 3-1 if you don’t.
There is a downside but even that can be turned into a positive down the road. Respectfully and discretly letting the umpire know that you have a good knowledge of the strike zone will make him be even more sure of himself when he calls a strike against you in a future AB and that helps you in too many ways to go into but one of the really fun parts of an AB is when the pitcher thinks he’s gotten you out on HIS pitch and he doesn’t get the call. That really pisses him off and can lead to all kinds of good stuff.
Can anyone here really say Reyes has any credibility right now with the Umpire by descretly questioning a called strike?
Unless, of course, Reyes happens to be known as a free swinger who will chase pitches out of the zone(which he did about 1/3 of the time last year according to Fangraphs) or go after the high heat. then, they don’t have to throw him low strikes.
Metsie,
You make some good points and your right to a certain fairly large extent. Where I’m coming from is Reyes is being thrown LESS strikes and he’s getting out MORE. He’s taking the bait and swinging at the pitch the pitcher wants him to swing at rather than making the pitcher throw him what HE wants to hit and that can only be solved one way.
You have to cultivate walks when your the lead off hitter by not going outside the zone. Reyes swings at pitches outside the zone 30% of the time. That’s way too high.
I’m cool with Reyes swinging at the first pitch to lead off the game as long as it’s a pitch he can do something with. What I am tired of seeing is him swinging at stuff he can’t do anything with.
I used to love watching Lance Johnson lead off, especially on the road. First pitch base hit. Great way to rattle the pitcher and get things started. Make him begin the game with a high stress inning. The difference is Lance was swinging at strikes. Jose is not. Pitchers are throwing him less and less strikes and he’s assisting them in getting him out. Now Jose is a decent bad ball hitter and you don’t want him to not do some of the things he’s capable of but it’s gone too far and with eight years in the Majors his pitch recognition skills have regressed.
Hitting is a cat and mouse game between the pitcher and hitter. You cannot always do the same thing or you become easy to pitch to. Swing at the first pitch fastball sometimes, that makes him start you off with something less controllable next time, take it. Now your up 1-0. You already banged his fastball in your last AB so maybe he tries to nibble and you take again, now it’s 2-0 and you can look for your pitch in just one spot and still be up 2-1 if you don’t get it/foul it off.
Lance Johnson (at least when he was here) was a higher average hitter than Jose will ever be so he could still be OB without looking for the walk but a big part of the reason he was able to get on was because he wasn’t swinging at the pitch the pitcher wanted him to, he was swinging at the pitch HE wanted to.
While we’re looking at things backward for a second, I’ll fully admit that I hate when this happens but taking a called 3rd strike even though I can’t stand it is a sign that a hitter is not swinging at the pitchers pitch, even with two strikes on him. If you NEVER get called out on a 3rd strike, it can only mean one of two things. Either your concluding your AB before you get to 2 strikes or your swinging at everything with 2 strikes, which means your swinging at the pitch the pitcher want you to swing at. If your also going outside the zone and swinging and fouling off stuff off the plate before two strike counts, those 2 strike pitches your seeing are going to be more often 0-2, 1-2 than 2-2, 3-2.
Can you ever recall Jose EVER taking a called 3rd strike?
For Jose I would recommend swinging early in the count only on pitches OVER the plate and taking everything else because right now half the pitches thrown to him are balls.
Does the fangraphs show splits? Cause Reyes had most of his K issues when he first came back and then after being out for a few weeks with the oblique.
Swinging outside the zone is basically where most hitters get their hits! I mean not every hit that is counted is a fat pitch over the plate. Those are usually home runs. The majority of ML hits are on pitches that are in a batter’s sweet spot which for most is low and outside where they can extend and drive the ball deep!
Like you said it is a cat and mouse game. And sometimes as a batter you have to anticipate what pitch he is going to throw at you and sometimes you guess wrong! Think Fastball and get a curve and you look horrible! But that is why no one ever hits .500, there is an inteligent mind working against you.
I don’t support swinging at the first pitch unless it’s really fat. But you should not be playing to walk as much as playing the count to YOUR favor. They are very different things!
more important to swing at pitches with 2 strikes if it is close enough to call, fat or not. Foul it off to try get a fatter pitch. If you walk during that process then fine but if a pitch is borderline I would rather have my guy thinking foul it off and be safe than I would have him thinking walk and taking a pitch close enough for a blind umpire to take the bat out of your hands.
Batter vs Pitcher is a very mental game. he is trying to fool you and your trying to predict what he is going to do. You try to get the pitcher to throw you something you can hit and taking balls is a big part of that but in the end you had better be thinking HIT and not walk or you will get punched out because you were trying to get the consolation prize instead of the hit!
Metsie, That’s pretty much what I said about working the count to your favor and not trying to get a walk. Let a walk be the byproduct of your winning the AB but not winding up with the prize (a pitch your expecting)
My point about being called out on a 3rd strike is that it should happen once in a while. Obviously it’s not a desired outcome and you would prefer to keep your AB alive but again if it NEVER happens then it shows that your always swinging with 2 strikes at almost everything (which Reyes IS doing) There are 2 strike pitches that should be taken, sometimes you might get caught but many times if you take that pitch you are not concluding the AB by hitting the pitchers pitch. Your making him throw you another pitch which has a greater chance of being farther off the plate or better yet something you CAN handle. Remember the more pitches thrown the greater chance of getting the mistake.
The good that comes from holding up and taking the 2 strike ball far out weighs the couple of times you may get caught.
So what you’re saying is that you want Reyes to take more called 3rd strikes for awhile in order to help change his approach at the plate?
To help him learn the strike zone more?
That’s tough…..It makes sense in theory but I don’t know if he’d want to do that.
Bayonne you know perfectly well what I’m trying to say.
Once again, If your swinging at every two strike pitch you get which Reyes IS doing then your swinging at the pitch the pitcher has set you up for, Not all of those pitches are strikes, in fact many of them are not. Reyes has been swinging at every single 2 strike offering inorder to keep his AB’s alive and without realizing it pitchers have been progressively using this against him by going farther and farther away from the zone, and he keeps chasing with the usual result being a ground out.
What I am saying is those pitches have to be taken and unfortunately once in a while your gonna get caught. Sometimes the mouse wins. But even though you will occasionally get caught all the other times that you worked the count back into your favor (or neutral) will get you both many more pitches you can hit or other pitches that are off the plate and you can turn a 1-2 count into a 3-2 fastball or ball 4, both of which are great outcomes after being 1-2.
With Reyes current reputation making the pitcher come back over the plate would help him immeasurably.
I stopped reading this after…
“Swinging outside the zone is basically where most hitters get their hits! I mean not every hit that is counted is a fat pitch over the plate. Those are usually home runs. The majority of ML hits are on pitches that are in a batter’s sweet spot which for most is low and outside where they can extend and drive the ball deep!”
that literally made me laugh out loud. there is not one piece of truth in any of that paragraph and it tells me all I need to know about how much you know about hitting.
Post the fangraphs on how many hits are pitches that were strikes!
If you had ever played the game you would know that most of the big hitters hit balls that would be balls if left to pass.
The low and mid outside pitches are the ones that get crushed!
Doesn’t matter righty or lefty!
A fastball on the inside corner is much harder to hit than one just outside the strikezone!
But you think OBP is the only thing that matters so I don’t know why you even are involved in a discussion about HITTING!
You would have everyone walk!
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/mapping-the-strike-zone/
now that’s enough out of you. try another sport man. baseball just ain’t your thing. basketball seems easy enough for you. it either goes in or it doesn’t. not much even you could get wrong with that.
Now ere is chris one of the exceptional liittle metsies. he’s one of the proudest little metsies, proud to announce he is so arrogant and so into his self ignorance that he comments on apost he refuses to read thru to the end. you chris is why all of of America spits at the mets and their falsely arrogant and based on you also intellectually voided fan base.
Someone that trolls a Mets site, that is incapable of constructiong a sentence in the English language should never use the word “arrogant” or “intellectually” in a post.
You are a sad and pathetic little child.
You can still read box scores and there are plenty of mediums for you to get your type of stats.
Just because you don’t like the new speak doesn’t mean the others progressing with it shouldn’t.
Life changes, we even have night time games now……..
5 guys don’t have to step up this year – ALL 25 guys do!
On this I tend to agree…
It’s not about individual players stepping up. It is about the entire team playing at a higher level than they did last year.
I happen to believe having Beltran in there for the whole season will help make things easier for the rest of the guys.
Pitching is where we need some guys to step up.
Bayonne, this deserved a reply; but lacked a button;
_____________________________________________________________________________
Bayonne Mets Fan says:
January 27, 2011 at 12:46 pm 62,
All this “plate discipline” and OBP talk makes these people feel like they understand the game. It’s easy for them in theory so therefore they know the game. False.
_____________________________________________________________________________My reply;
Sure Bay, next thing u’ll be telling me is u’ve discovered the’re ALL Wilpons.lol
hah, that is funny!
T, no button again, u wrote;
_____________________________________________________________________________ agee says:
January 27, 2011 at 2:03 pm ’62, Speed is a luxury at #2. I want doubles and long counts. High BA, high OB. I’m not stealing in front of Wright, Beltran, Davis and Bay anyway. Give me lots of 1st and 3rd, 2nd and 3rd with no outs or runner on 2B 1 out.
Your stolen bases belong in front of your singles hitters, not your HR hitters.
_____________________________________________________________________________my response is to simply brioaden your horiozons regding the positives in speed. not just AB; but XTRA bases taken, first & thirds, scoring from first on a double are the positives I consider when putting speed @ #2. Again with this HR hitter crap? WRIGHT,BELTRAN,BAY,DAVIS are supposedly the lineup following #2 can u identify that big HR hitter for me? I see a bunch of HR threasts with more likely singles & doubles being gatrhered. except for Bay & Davis isn’t that bnerarlly the ’05 lineip? damned close & how were those gopherballs in tad less challenging Shea? Unless u’ve suddenly been stricken with memoery loss, u may recall my pleas for a BOPPER to replace Delgado ever since he went down. that wasn’r because I held Beltran’s capability as a cleanup hitter in high regard. I’ve seen that pictutre, the reviews were disappointing.