ESPN: Top 10 Mets Prospects

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• Markcomic1 January 26, 2011 at 5:48 pm

  Also Wright, Reyes, Pagan, were all brought up through the Mets minor league system..Though Pagan was purchased by the cubs he still started out in the Mets system.
• Nicky January 26, 2011 at 6:04 pm

  Excellent points. They love to try and make the Mets look bad. How much higher would our farm system rank if Davis, Thole, Parnell and Niese were in the minors? Nice job.
  • Des January 26, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    I don’t think they are trying to make the Mets look bad. It’s comparing apples to apples. Would the Mets be rated higher if Davis, Thole, Parnell and Niese were in the minors, and all the other teams had their younger players in the minors, too?

    It was a nice job.
    • METS62FAN January 27, 2011 at 1:24 pm

      Des, don’t kid yourself, the NYM are a popular team & negativism is an easier sell than positivity at this point in time. Also, since the praise towards NYY is obviously earned by W/L records. The overall negativity through this country towards NYC befalls us. We are certainly a TARGET the most novice/myopic sportswriter can hit! All u ever need do is listen to an opponent’s broadcast of a NYM game to truly ascertain the level of derision/contempt that’s being fostered. Not one Braves/Gnats/Reds/Phils broadcast goes by without a victriolic condemnation of our payroll,fanbase,media.
      • happy little mets fans January 27, 2011 at 8:41 pm

        wow, where did you come up with that false line about the mets being popular. people pound on yoiur team because of the people like you, arrogant for no reason and an owner whoiis so dumb he has to beg bud seklig to help him find a gm. sandy is over the hill… got the job because selig didn’t want to keep overpaying him to check birthdates in the Dominican. stay delusional metsie fan. afterall you did finish first every year since 2006 right!! lol
        • Mr North Jersey January 27, 2011 at 8:49 pm

          Still haven’t gotten over your inferiority complex i see.

          
        • stick January 27, 2011 at 9:39 pm

          I guess you come here because even the other philly fans won’t talk sports with you?

          and calling Sandy over the hill is humorous, considering the Phils had to bring in an even older guy (gillick) to fix their mess.
          • Des January 28, 2011 at 12:10 am

            Yeah, Pat Gillick was (and is) the man for the Phillies. He is still in on every deal.

            Ruben Amaro has the title of GM. Pat Gillick reports to Ruben but, more importantly to Dave Montgomery, the chief cheese.
        • METS62FAN January 28, 2011 at 9:28 am

          Happy, ever consider altering your moniker to dilusional? perhaps u need to venture outside the Metro bubble for longer than a few weeks at a time. I’ve lived or worked in NY,NJ,DE,GA,CA,NC for extensive periods & by far I’ve seen many more NYM fan indications than any other non resident NL team over the past 30+ yrs. just check a compoarative road attendance figure between us & tyhe other NL franchises don’t u ever wonder why the JOSE,JOSE,JOSE chant is so mobil?
          The renowned dysfunctionality of the Jeff Wilpon organization chart is most likely the true cause for frontoffice issues as predicted by Doubleday, the day Jeff’s COO promotion was announced & detauiled by HOF writer Bill Madden shortly afterward.Nadden’s famous metaphoric comparison was more FRATHOUSE than FRONTOFFICE. Of course prior emplorers in sports get first crack at approving or denying access to their employees as SOP. While the Mets have suffered for 9 yrs as Doubleday prognosticated with his “heaven help them” retort to the Jeff as COO annoncement for the very first time under th aucpices of sterling guidance the more renowned “CORE” is housed in the frontoffice insteasd on the field this core is comprised of GM loyalists, noy cronies or affirmative action(Bernazard) oportumists. While the lack of headliner additions confound & perplex the simpleminded one can only consider the lack of acquisition headlines provoked by our competitors’ former acquisitions of Werth,Ibanez,Victorino(PHL) or McLouth,Hinske,Gonzalez(ATL) as quality if not headline additions while we focused on the bigger names of Beltran,Bay,Delgado to be strong Bricks to build a foundation upon. Unfortunately foundation strength relies much more on the mortar used to connect the bricks/stones a factor overlooked in NY; but not in PHL.ATL as the aforementioned lackluster additions indicate. All 3 clubs have been assisted by the development of a few capable STARS in McCann,Prado,Infante,Heyward in Atlanta as well as Utley,Howard, Rollins in PHL. these adequately equalled or surpassed the NY contingent of Reyes,Wright,Davis whereby strategic lineup additions of “mortar/cement” players over bricks/stones certainly indicate Alderson has completed a fine job hopefully underlined the season.

          Please note I deliberately avoided the key topic of pitching as I’ve been continuously baffled by the steady productivity provided by the oldest staff housed in Atlanta. Philadelphia’s “on-paper” dominance is too rediculous to contemplate assailing.
• t agee January 26, 2011 at 6:08 pm

  Maybe it doesn’t bother you but just look at all the players our competitors have brought up over the last few years. McCann, Heyward, Prado, Escobar, Freeman, Utley, Howard, Rollins, Victorinno, Brown and compare them to our guys. Wright (supplemental pick for offering arb to Hampton) and Reyes and that’s the established position players. I’d include Davis there too but Thole is no McCann, we won’t have a RFer when Carlos leaves, who even knows if we’ll have a LFer even after paying 100 million to two guys over 7 years. 2B, 50 million to two guys over 7 years to play like AAAA players. Forget about Philly’s farm allowing them to trade for Halliday, Lee, Oswalt and Blanton or Atlanta’s rotation.

  All teams have had recent graduates of their farm system including us and everyone else. Some of those teams have also used their farm system for big time pitching. If we didn’t luck out with Dickey last year we’d have 4 question marks in our starting rotation. Philly has 4 aces. Atlanta has Hanson, Lowe and Hudson. We tried to win with a piecemeal rotation at best. Guys too old, injured, teams gave up on and very young guys. Not even close in your comparison.

  To ignore the reason why we have 5-10 major weaknesses and a s**t bench every year and not look at the results of the Scouting and Development Dept is to completely ignore reality.

  If the Scouting Director did such a good job in 2005 with Pelfrey, Neise, Parnell and Thole why did Omar fire him a couple months later?

  And did you by any chance take a look at the results of the 2007 draft?
  I would really like to know what the thought process behind that one was particularly 1-7.
  • Nester January 26, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Phillies bought up Utley in 2003 and Howard in 2004, we bought up Reyes and Wright in those same years. Your suggesting you would rather have them than ours? Or that they did a better job? By the way the Phillies didnt draft Victorino the Dodgers did in 1999. How far back you want to go with this the Donald Grant years?
    • t agee January 26, 2011 at 6:41 pm

      Victorinno was a rule 5, Werth was a non tender, If our Scouting Dept and GM’s ever looked beyond the type A free agent or a big name someone wants to dump we could have solved some of our continuing problems that way too.

      Think we could use a RFer some day? Are we ever going to get another second basemen? Maybe we have through the rule 5 we certainly didn’t through free agency. Same with LF or are we just going to continue to buy guys who are past their prime?

      Defend the s**t results of our Scouting and Drafting Dept all you want, the fact is the work you do in those areas not only gives you much better production at a much lower cost allowing you to add some big time players to an established group of good players but it also keeps you from making the same damn mistakes year after year.

      Alou at 15 million for 100 games over two years, El-Duque another 15 million, Pedro 54 million for a season and a half, Wagner 44 for a season and a half, Castillo 24M, Perez 36M, Putz 5M for 29 IP, Beltran 118M for 4 great years and 3 injured one’s, Johan 100M for how many years? Who knows. We spent so much money on all these holes we have every year that we had to round out the roster with other teams rejects. GMJ, Jacobs, Cattalonotto, Sheffield, Francouer, Sullivan, Reed.

      And I’d be interested in your thoughts on the 2007 draft Nester. I’m sure you’ll be quick to mention Duda and Gee and while those turned out to be decent, or even good picks I’d be like to hear your ideas on picks 1-7. Keeping in mind that this was the year that Omar let Hernandez, Oliver and Bradford go, signed Schowenweiss for 3/10, voluntarily handed over our #1 draft choice for a 40 year old LFer and once again counted on Pedro, El-Duque and Valentin to turn back the clock as if they could go on forever.
• Bayonne Mets Fan January 26, 2011 at 6:15 pm

  ..and Mejia could make the big club this season too
  • Nester January 26, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Yes and I bet Duda is up before the all star break too.
    • Bayonne Mets Fan January 26, 2011 at 6:28 pm

      They can BOTH make the big club out of spring training. It’s VERY POSSIBLE.
      • Chris January 26, 2011 at 7:30 pm

        nope.
      • stick January 26, 2011 at 8:24 pm

        not mejia. no way.
        • t agee January 26, 2011 at 8:56 pm

          Definitely not Mejia, possibly Duda if Bay (or Davis) can’t go.
        • Chris January 26, 2011 at 9:56 pm

          I can’t believe we are even having this argument after what happened last year. Bayonne you are thick.
          • Berbalerbs January 27, 2011 at 3:42 pm

            CHRIS HE COULD BE OUR 6TH INNING GUY!!!

            so much more important than grooming a possible home grown future ace for the rotation.
            • t agee January 27, 2011 at 5:21 pm

              Yeah, and lets use up another year of team control before he even knows how to pitch.

              Very wise, very wise indeed.
• oldtimer January 26, 2011 at 6:32 pm

  It’s a pretty bad farm system. No prospects in MLB.com top 50 and a 26 rating by Law/ESPN. Pitching is the coin of the realm and the Mets have one, Mejia,who figures to be a #3 starter or a set up guy. BA’s ranking come out soon and you have to assume they will be in the bottom ten. Let’s hope Alderson straightens it out in the next 3-4 years.
  • t agee January 26, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    I hope so oldtimer but it will take a radical change by the Wilpon who thinks he’s playing fantasy baseball and can make it work.

    To see how bad it really is just take a look at last years ESPN top 100 prospects and check out some of the names on that list.
    • Eraff January 26, 2011 at 7:25 pm

      The Mets Stink right now…that is, SADLY, Not in debate!

      The fact that a good number of players on a bad team are “Home Grown” is NOT a source of pride! Of the four young players you mention(Tole, Niese, Parnell and Ike), only Ike was considered to be a ML prospect with large upside. That’s not to say that these guys can’t become fine players, but we are talking about PROSPECT rankings here. Only Ike and Niese would get a shot on a good roster right now—-Tole and Parnell have would be boarderline.

      I hope it works out well….and I believe the prospect rankings are always flawed—but its not a stretch to observe that the Mets shrunk their draft resources over the past three years by following Seiligs Draft slotting formula. That impacted their ability to draft and sign top talent.

      There’s is no reason to rationalize or defend what they’ve done—hope they do more forward!
• Mark January 26, 2011 at 9:47 pm

  Wow, there is no way the Phillies system is better than the Mets. They have traded away almost all of their top prospects. In 5 years when we all look back more Mets minorleaguers will have made the majors and will have had more of an impact. This is just more New York bashing. Braves definitely have a great system but not the Phillies. Royals have a great system. Mets may not be top 5 system but they fall within the 5 to 15 range.
  • t agee January 26, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Phillies have a few live arms and a couple of well regarded high upside type hitters. Probably belong more in the 15th spot.

    Mets are the opposite. plenty of B-C type prospects but centered in the lower levels. Puelo, Vaughn, Den Deker, Ceccilini in the OF, Armondo Rodriguez, Urbina, Familla are more unpolished on the mound. Harvey, Cohoon, Matz are considered closer. In the infield Flores and Aderlin Rodriguez are unsettled as far as future positioning goes and Who knows with Reece Havens, Josh Satin or Valdespin. At catcher there are no real great prospects but a couple of guys who could break out. The FLA. State League Team should be fun to watch. I wish Wally was managing those guys because some of them will be up here in a few years.

    One thing Omar did do right was he brought us quite a bit of depth. High ceiling but raw down low and more polished but less upside at the higher levels but considering where the farm system was at least there’s bound to be some help in the future.

    If Omar had had 10 more high picks we probably would be in decent shape right now but by giving away so many high draft choices and then drafting so poorly at times he really left us threadbare when the dinosaurs he brought in faded away.

    The thing about prospects is that their so iffy you have to have quite a few. To count on just one guy for say C 1B and 2B like he did means your gonna get the results he did. one very good, one OK and one either hurt or a washout. You need way more than one prospect at every position.
    • mets2012 January 27, 2011 at 12:11 am

      T agee
      Geez…..
      You’ve been studying our minor system.
      I didn’t know you knew so much. Is this the result of your effort to back your claims or you just had it?
      • t agee January 27, 2011 at 5:26 am

        Mets 2012, Just finally had it a couple years ago and started wondering why we had to get an import at every position.
        That got me interested in how other teams were put together and made me realize just how we have short changed ourselves by not making a full effort down below.

        Seeing how other teams avoid the long term mistakes that we continue to make over and over again convinced me that we have to change the mindset here from winning a World Championship to Competing for a World Championship every single year. The way to do that is through the farm.

        Once you have a young starting 8 backed with 5 other young guys who can step in off the bench and some live arms in the pen you can go out and trade or go free agent for your aces and you should be in it every year. That’s the conclusion I came up with anyway and I’m convinced that it is the only one that will keep your well wet.

        A certain fairly large segment of the Met Fan population expects a fancy bauble every year to keep them interested but these have mostly been fools gold for us and it’s time to grow up and start putting our resources into things that appreciate, rather than depreciate, or in our case disintegrate.
• Pete January 26, 2011 at 10:33 pm

  They may not have a top ten farm system, but they’re not near the bottom like Mr. Law states. Keith Law is an anti-Met jackass.
• MetsMan86 January 27, 2011 at 2:27 am

  Viva la Mets!
• Matt January 27, 2011 at 2:40 pm

  It’s weird that Mejia is not listed as one of the Mets top 10 prospects. The Mets also have 2 other potential studs in the minors in Cory Vaughn and Mark Cohoon. I also believe Cesar Puello is listed way too high…In 469 PA’s last season he had a slugging percentage that was 16 points below his on-base percentage and had a total of 24 extra base hits.
  • Donal January 27, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    I asked about Mejia before. apparently, he burned up his rookie elligibility last year, so he is no longer considered a prospect.
  • Hitman January 27, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    There’s no question Vaughn should be in the top 10, but Keith Law hates him so he (intentionally) kept Vaughn off the list.
    • Mr North Jersey January 27, 2011 at 3:25 pm

      Why would you say Law hates him?
      • Hitman January 27, 2011 at 3:28 pm

        Direct comment from Law on Vaughn:

        “Cory Vaughn is a non-prospect for me. I was in San Diego earlier this year at USD and told some scout friends I was going over to SDSU “to watch Cory Vaughn strike out four times.” Well, I only saw him hit twice … but he struck out both ABs.”

        Pretty much tells you how he feels about Vaughn. He also said he can never hit “legit pitching”.
        • Mr North Jersey January 27, 2011 at 4:09 pm

          Thanks for the quote. I did a little digging to see when the comment was made and I see he made that comment during the MLB Draft in a espn chat reply to a question asking his thought on the Mets just drafting him.

          espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/32802/mlb-insider-keith-law

          I also see the tweet where Law says “Vaughn is what he was – homered off a kid throwing 85-87. Can’t hit legit pitching” after seeing him play on July 13th 4 weeks into Vaughn’s pro career where at the time Vaughn was hitting .258/BA with a .352/OBP while slugging .570 in his first 93 at bats.

          His argument at the time for why he was also not impressed was the following. “They loaded the roster with guys too old for the league,” he said. “Methuselah played left for them tonight. Brooklyn roster has just 3 kids under 21. Way too old for the NYP.”

          examiner.com/brooklyn-cyclones-in-new-york/keith-law-critical-of-vaughn-houck-on-twitter

          twitter.com/keithlaw/status/18481385305

          Now I don’t know what the average age is supposed to be for the Penn League but unless your drafted out of H.S. I would think your going to be 21 and are not most players drafted placed in the Penn League 1st? Is Harvey starting in the Penn League or will he go to Kingsport?
          • Mr North Jersey January 27, 2011 at 4:12 pm

            I should add that Vaughn finished the season hitting,

            .307/BA .396/OBP .557/SLG

            baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=vaughn001cor
            • Squidoo January 27, 2011 at 9:24 pm

              I thought I read somewhere that he also won the MVP in that league, New York Penn I believe. He should of been ranked higher. Why does Law get this undeserved and unproven reputation for being some sort of prospects guru? What is his claim to fame?
          • Ian January 27, 2011 at 5:44 pm

            It seems that he’s says all of these negative things without giving a true reason. There’s no “hey he’s dropping his hands” or “he’s got a whole in his swing”.
• Free_AEC January 27, 2011 at 5:57 pm

  You guys are funny. KLAW is being kind rating the Mets 26th.

  He was actually hard on the Phils and boosted the Rays beyond where they deserve to be. Phils system is better than the Braves too. Phils should have been #2 behind K.C. and just barely.

  Brown and Singleton have Cooperstown potential. The Lakewood rotation of Cosart, Colvin and May will definitely produce big league stud talent. Reminds me of when Myers and Madson were coming up together out of high school.

  Good luck with Fred Wilpon. You’re going to need it.
  • t agee January 27, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Those are the reasons Law picked Philly so high. Obviously an 8 WAR player beats 2 4 WAR players but those two hitters while they have great, great potential are not sure things either and pitchers never are. Between injuries and command problems counting on getting more than two of them to be special in the Major Leagues is going against the odds.

    If Brown and Singleton and the rotation turn out like you hope it’s a world class system. If you wind up with only 3 your lack of depth is going get you.
  • Mr North Jersey January 27, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Any chance you had at being taken seriously was lost once you said “Brown and Singleton have Cooperstown potential.”
• Des January 28, 2011 at 12:23 am

  Way back when, I looked at a lot of video of Reese Havens. If this kid stays healthy, he’ll make us forget Daniel Murphy, Ruben Tejada, and everyone else at 2B. His swing is as close to perfect as you’ll see. It’s compact and powerful. It’s the best of any of the current Mets infielders.

  Whether Havens ever makes it will depend on his health and freedom from injuries, much less on the availability of any of the other candidates for 2B. As a total ballplayer, he is a gem. Of course, the Mets would be wise to always have an alternative in the event Havens gets injured.
  • METS62FAN January 28, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Des, I have a “gut” feeling we needn’t overlook Emaus the former Jay prospect, I assume we snatched via Rule V on the tout from Ricchardi. Emaus is a tad more advanced having already logged time in the PCL(AAA) comparative Milb Carrer averages are equally promising while rumor has it neither is particularly gifted beyond serrvicable defensively
    MiLB CARRER OFFENSIVE #s:
    PLAYER G AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS

    HAVENS 32 .312/.386/.592/.978
    EMAUS 125 .290/.397/.476/.874

    Emaus’ 87 games played in AAA to date were equally impressive @.298/.395/.495/.890.

    I have found that incoming execs from other MLB franchises typically use their ‘best insider’ intelligence to make excellent first impressions by touting “BEST BETS”. it is why I feel good about the opportunity a Murphy/Emaus platoon will have in unseating incumbant Castillo. Cetrtainly Havens seems like a superb future consideration for either a corner or 2B option. I believe Emaus stands posised to make a more immediate impact as his odds improve by his RULE V status.
    As Tejada’s been announce ostensibly as the franchise’s Damasclesian Sword(threat) in it’s negotiations with Reyes since the announcement Tejada’s slotted to be the Bison’s reg SS in 2011. as well as the depth addition of Hu majkes Tejada’;s consideration @ 2B yesterday’s concern. If Murphy can prove better defensively @ 2B than a Robbie Alomar with a fry pan instead of a glove, then I really believe the Murph/Emaus tandem has an actual player’s edge over Luis. Luis maintains his accountant’s edge.
    • Des January 28, 2011 at 9:58 am

      Maybe I jumped the gun, but after looking at Havens I know why the Mets drafted him so high. The kid is the real deal. After not missing a single game in his college career, the wheels came off because of injuries. Here’s what Toby Hyde said:

      “I like his swing. I like his strength which has produced power this year. I like that he takes walks. I think he has the physical skills for second with more than adequate range, good hands and a stronger than necessary arm for the position. None of it matters if he’s not on the field.”

      If Emaus winds up being a better everyday selection, and Havens is available, the Mets have the enviable problem of riches. Havens might bring another needed player to the team through a trade.
    • t agee January 28, 2011 at 10:06 am

      ’62, Got to put Emaus’ numbers in the context of the PCL being notoriously hitter friendly overall and his home field contributing to that overall hitter friendliness. Projections are fun but don’t forget to dock him for coming up here AND for league and home field context especially with regard to OB and SLG.

      My realistic translation of his AAA numbers in the PCL to his first year up here, .245/.330/376. I would bop those up to .270/.350/400 in a straight up platoon.

      We’ll see.
      • stick January 28, 2011 at 11:17 am

        well, .750 is way better than what the mets have gotten out of the position for the last few years. And especially good for a #8 hitter.

        I can also see the platoon situation, but unless they bring in someone new, that likely means murphy, who should put up just as good of an OPS hitting mostly vs. RHP.

        long shot would be castillo, but I really don’t see him being kept for a platoon.
        • t agee January 28, 2011 at 11:31 am

          Completely agree Stick. .750 would be fantastic. Hell, .650 be be an improvement especially since Castillo’s high OB only comes with no one on.
      • METS62FAN January 28, 2011 at 11:52 am

        T, please don’t mistake my touting Emaus over Havens to Des as anything more than it is. As an OLD FASHIONED type of non-sabremetric fan,I don’t disavow Sabre; just don’t rely as heavily upon it. I typically, in this contec=xt, don’t count too heavily on offensive production from MI players(SS,2B) I’m high on Emaus’ prospects only in comparison to Havens,Castillo as the RH portion of an anticipated Murphy platoon, his occasions will naturally be limited as typically Murph will get the nod 2G each series. due to the higher population of RH SPers
        • t agee January 28, 2011 at 12:04 pm

          Got ya ’62. I’m excited to see what he offers too.

          One thing that surprises me is that he wasn’t protected by Toronto, not so much by MI depth but because they elected to go with 24 pitchers on their 40 and only 5 infielders.

          Must be looking for trade possibilities.
          • METS62FAN January 29, 2011 at 10:32 am

            Certainly wouldn’t be the first time a good prospect was inadvertantly exposed, most likely happens during frontoffice regime changes & Riccardi may have been downplaying(hiding) him internally, one never knows.
            • t agee January 29, 2011 at 11:07 am

              Riccardi’s been out of there for a couple of years now. He originally drafted Emaus though in the 11th round of the 2007 draft.
• sarge January 28, 2011 at 11:10 am

  Kansas City might have a higher rated farm system, and their share of busts “Alex Gordon”, but how many times have they competed for a playoff spot in the last 10 years?
  At least Mets have been to WS in 2000 and since 2006 been contenders until last few years so farms system does not equal WS titles, yet.
  • t agee January 28, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Sarge, One thing that does win World Series is having a LOT of your young talented players all coming up at the same time.

    For the last four years KC has been going over slot on ALL their picks, that’s why they have so much talent all coming up here together.

    We have been putting fortunes into “filling holes” every year and handing over our high draft choices and now those players are either going to be gone or we are wishing they were gone.
    • stick January 28, 2011 at 11:41 am

      going over slot is vastly cheaper than overpaying for middle of the road FAs on LT deals.

      even the teams that go nuts with the draft (high 1st round pick, some overslots) and also sign some top IFAs spend what, $10mill on amateur talent each year?

      so what is better, that investment in multiple young guys (who stay cheap for many years once they are in house), or signing 1 stiff like Ollie for even more money?

      And with KC or pitt, easier to spare that money when their ML payroll doesn’t break $40mill!
      • t agee January 28, 2011 at 11:47 am

        True Stick, and after a few years of building some depth and talent in the farm, it prevents you from “having” to make that big free agent mistake because as the refrain goes “well who else were we going to get to play 2B?”