Comments on: Why Is This Man Smiling?

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:07:12 +0000

T, u’ve got to be kidding me, you’ve jumped the trolly tracks so u don’t like these guys, what would u have done differebntly? try to remember that the vast majority of them were not added as more than role players. rather than drive everyone here nuts, I’m going to cherry pick those u last as the most agregous selections, Pedro? if nothing else, the MOST NOTEWORTHY MISSION STATEMENT signing in NYM histoery regardless of hios productivity. like it or not, excl the 60s & 80s the Mets were the redheaded stepfhild in NY, they fist decided to be bold & target an actual free agent, their first noteworthy target, ever, Dave Winfield, Georege couldn’t stand to let that happen & chose to smack the Flushing upstarts back into the oblivion of middle page coverage with nar a whiff of the all important backpage, licking their wounds they subsequently chose to try again for alternate selection George Foster,n to very mixed fan reviews, they then spend 20+ years shying away from bif ticket luxury items to the derision of All of NYC. New OWNERS charge their new GM to alter the pattern & what beetter way than NYY nemesis Pedxro Martinez fresh off a miraculous WS season that shattered the Bambino’s damnation.
T, this is a player u scoff at adding? once again, are u nutz?

Delgado? really? some mention him as a borderlinr HOFer, not me particularly; but certainly shouldn’t be damned to such a listing either. Francouer? u may not like him for whatever reason; but u can’t claim we overpaid for him either. Church? what an abysmal disappointment. Basicly that only leaves Church’s cohort Schneider as the last regfular to actually appear on this list. Schneider+Church=Milledge an age old question of which team got snookered on that deal? Obviously a fair deal that left both dissatisfied; however relooking at it as Milledge-Francoeur+Schneider give, t me, the Mets’ an edge.(unless u counter with the Morgan=Francoeuur+Schnieder arguement) Nats win! hands down! Too bad crystal balls aren’t as reliable.

T, aKE UP EVERY TEAM INKS HAS BEENS/HOPE NEVER TO USE PLAYERRS How else would Hinske,Stairs,Dobbs ever draw NL paychecks? u do realize Cairo made a postseason appearance last yr don’t u? The NEW ORDER IN MLB dictates AAA is a warehouse not a developmental level & there are too many on your list never intended for major league appearances.
Without a minor league system worth mentioning, how else would u have prepared for the eventual replacements u’d need? Try thinking in terms of GM reigns and forget this 25 yr bs AS IT’S ALL TOO OBVIOUS dOUBLEDAY WAS IN CHARGE UNTIL ’02 DESPITE REPORTS OF 50/50 PARTNERSHIP, OBVIOUSLY dOUBLEDAY’S OVERRIDING fRED ON pIAZZA CQUISITION WAS MADE BY A MANAGING OR CONTROLLING PARTNER NOT A MERE 50% SHAREHOLDER!

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 02:49:10 +0000

I think it would have been possible to set up an annuity product based on less than the contractual obligation to Bonilla to establish a future flow of funds. But you are most likely correct that it was set up internally based on expected returns from the crook. The future Bonilla payments may very well be another legacy of the crook overhanging the Mets in addition to the expectation of clawback.

By: t agee

t agee — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:28:52 +0000

’62, at your request here is a list of players acquired by Omar that were “past their prime, never had a prime, were useless, got injured or all four.

Mike Jacobs, Marlon Anderson, Chris Woodward, Doug Mientkavage, Gerald Williams, Juan Padilla, Brian Daubach, Jose Offerman, Miguel Cairo, Eric Valent, Pedro Martinez, John Valentin, Michael Tucker,Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Jorge Julio. Jeremy Gonzalez, Kelly Stinett, Eli Mareo, Jose Lima, Mike De Felice, Ricky Ledee, Moises Alou, Carlos Delgado, Mike Easly, Luis Castillo, Ruben Gotay, Chan Ho Park, David Newhan, Sandy Alomar Jr., Jorge Sosa, Ben Johnson, Jeff Conine, Brian Lawrence, Ryan Church, Fernando Tatis, Brian Schneider, Damion Easley, Raul Cassonova, Robinson Cancel, Trot Nixon, Brady Clark, Andy Phillips, Tony Armas Jr., Jeff Francouer, Omir Santos, Gary Sheffield, Cory Sullivan, Wilson Valdez, Anderson Hernandez, Alex Cora, Fernando Nieve, Emil Brown, Andy Green, Angel Berroa, Jeremy Reed, Ramon Martinez, Tim Redding, Livan Hernandez, Rod Barajas, Henry Blanco, Chris Carter, Mike Hessman, GMJ, Jesus Feliciano, Frank Cattalanotto, Mike Nickeas, Joaquin Arias and Kelvin Escobar, and Oliver Perez.

Now ’62, before you get your knickers all in a knot please understand that I use the “mantra” as a catch all phrase and one does not have to belong to more than one group to be lumped in with the rest. This saves time (and bandwidth) from having to sort out Omar’s mongrels into one specific category or another. With so many different types of freaks, mutants varmints, hobo’s, vagabonds, carpet baggers, rejects neandethalls, cromaganon cave dwellers, it’s frequently impossible to sort them all into one category and many of them qualify in multiple categories and when you think about it, if their making league minimum and useless their over paid too.

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 15:53:46 +0000

THANKS, HARRY! TIME TO GET THE OLE MEMORY CARDS DUSTED I THINK.

By: Harry C

Harry C — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 15:49:25 +0000

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bonilbo01.shtml#trans

Bonilla for Rojas. End of subject 11.11.98

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 15:01:52 +0000

T, I’m calling u out on this so often repeated mantra u preach(“over paid, unproductive, past their prime free agents”) given the most widely accepted age period defined as PRIME for a major leaguer is between 28-32(4 yrs) will you please respond with your littany of so called “past their prime: free agents” that have been signed by NYM?
BTW Bonilla was just 30 when he signed as a F/A in ’93.

I must state that the WALL STREET JOURNAL VERSION of the second Bonilla coming does not jive with my personal foggy recollection as I seem to recall Bonilla being “forced” down our throats as a must in order to complete a deal for another player in a pkg that also included, I believe, C,Charles Johnson & Bonilla. Tgher, I believe was much miore than the near inexcusable straight-up deal being implied by the WSJ. Despite Bonilla’s being 36 at the second acquisition, that was via trade not ZF/A & neither he nor Vaughn qualify fot the list I’ve requested from u. Either deliver said listing or desist from moaning about the bad over-the hill F/As

By: Des

Des — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 00:12:55 +0000

Alwaysnextyear — good point. I think you nailed it!!!

By: t agee

t agee — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 23:38:44 +0000

I knew it would happen, just didn’t think it would be on the first day of the year. Happy New Year Harry!

By: Harry C

Harry C — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 23:29:51 +0000

AGREEMENT!!!!!! lol.

By: t agee

t agee — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 22:21:15 +0000

Absolutely Harry. Eat the contract. Same as Perez last June. Over the years the Mets have made many trades to save the cash receiving less in order to get out of onerous contracts (Kaz)or future obligations (Wagner’s buyout and signing bonuses to the two prospects we could have had) Never are any of these trades ever made for the benefit of the team. They are always made for the benefit of the financial bottom line. In this case, combined with other occurances, it has really cost us both ways.

By: t agee

t agee — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 21:44:29 +0000

Wouldn’t that kind of a future payoff have to be initially funded by about the same (at least) amount of money as Bonilla was due? Where would the benefit to the Wilpon’s be by paying the same thing to an Insurance Company that they would have had to pay Bonilla?

The only possible benefit to them back then would be if they were going to self fund it for liquidity purposes, or felt they could realize a better return on that investment by funding the future obligation elsewhere. If that was the case then it was most likely invested with the crook and like everything else be taken from the future in order to pay the present.

In addition there are sizable tax advantages for the one who does NOT take out the annuity so really the question can only be one of greater liquidity now (back then) or optimism over being able to realize a greater investment result than available elsewhere.

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 21:11:36 +0000

If Sterling Enterprises made the commitment to buy out Bonilla’s contract and executed it through self insurance, they are really crazy. Paying this stream of payments over 25 years would then be a drain on the total organization. I can’t believe they would really be that stupid. This must have been funded through the use of an annuity product taking the stream of payments off the Met’s ledger and putting them onto the books of the insurance company. If it was funded through Madoff, well so be it. Then they are screwed as that jig is up. The entire relevance of this thing is how the buyout commitment was structured and whether it was left to be an outflow from general operations or not. Rational management woould not have left the obligation in place without an insurance product implementation. But then it’s the Mets and the Wilpon’s running the show and if there was ever the likelihood of a bonehead strategy, this is the place it would be.

By: mike

mike — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 18:54:21 +0000

Love the Mets.

By: alwaysnextyear

alwaysnextyear — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 16:45:34 +0000

that makes it sound more like they funded some kind of annuity for him, and it is off the books essentially, as opposed to having to pay him out of general payroll funds (not that his “salary” amounts to much overall).

By: Harry C

Harry C — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 14:41:23 +0000

Ah but this was not the case. Doing nothing would have meant retaining the truly hideous services of Mr Rojas. time heals all wounds some say but Mr Rojas was the Mr Ollie Perez of his day. the proper action would have been to release Rojas and eat his smaller contract!

By: Des

Des — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 14:04:44 +0000

Our friends over at Cots Baseball Contracts don’t have the Bonilla payments listed under “payroll obligations for former players.” I wonder if the money was transferred to personal services or some such other category.

By: Des

Des — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 13:10:24 +0000

“You guys won’t be able to knock the smile off my face.” — A smiling Bobby Bonilla told a gathering of reporters.

Bobby underestimated the Mets!!!

By: Tommy2cat

Tommy2cat — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 12:13:23 +0000

When Bonilla’s contract arrangement was first announced @ ten years ago, I recall that it was tied to the performance of a Met investments, which under that structure, made sense to Mets brass at that time. When news broke that Met investments were tied into Madoff’s ponzi scheme, I immediately thought about whether and to what extent that anticipated income served as a basis for Bonilla’s deal. It never made sense to me.

But what do I know – I’m just a pitching coach and defense attorney. I suppose the Mets have no use for me….:))