31
2010
Why Ricciardi Could Help
An article by Hojo's Mojo
John Harper of the Daily News gives some compelling reasons why former Blue Jays GM, J.P. Ricciardi could be the right man to run Mets player development.
Ricciardi would be the guy that baseball people expect to dramatically change the way the Mets have scouted and drafted in recent years. One person inside the organization said there has been no mission statement, if you will, to guide the personnel people evaluating players and making decisions – only a fear factor that led to making safe rather than bold choices.
While yesterday’s piece by Joe focused on some of Ricciardi’s lowlights, Harper ignores those things and focuses on some of the highlights. It’s good to consider everything.and balance both, but that’s why I love baseball, and this is one site where both sides of a Mets issue can always have a voice.
Harper also spoke to someone in the Mets organization that shed some light on how bad things were on the Mets minor league side of things.
“The Mets haven’t drafted enough high-ceiling guys,” the source said. “They haven’t drafted enough power arms. There are no pitching prospects of any great value, other than maybe (Jenrry) Mejia, in the system. Scouting and drafting is about an organization having trust in a philosophy,” the Mets’ person said. “There was no philosophy and there was no trust in the people being asked to evaluate players. So you had the scouting director (Rudy Terrasas) scared for his job, afraid to make a mistake, and that affected the way players were drafted.”
“Eddie Kunz was a perfect example. Nobody in baseball had him projected as a first-round pick, but the Mets took him because he was a reliever with an out pitch in college (at Oregon State) that some people thought might be able to help the big club quickly. That’s the only reason a scouting director takes a kid like that with such a high pick, because he thinks the kid can advance quickly and make him look good. But when Kunz couldn’t dominate with his sinker against better competition, he didn’t develop. It wasn’t a surprise because he didn’t have an athletic body, and he didn’t project as a high-ceiling guy. That’s the stuff that has to change.”
Good stuff.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 17 | .605 | - |
| Nationals | 25 | 17 | .595 | 0.5 |
| Marlins | 23 | 19 | .548 | 2.5 |
| Mets | 22 | 20 | .524 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 22 | .488 | 5.0 |
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Sorry, but we don’t need another guy with a big mouth and domineering personality anywhere near our young players. We already had Ricciardi, his name was Tony Bernazard. Bloggers don’t have to be objective, sports writers get paid to be objective. Harper is an idiot.
“They haven’t drafted enough power arms.”
I have one question. What is enough?
Totally wrong. They drafted Pelfrey, Holt, Matz, Harvey all first rounders. 4 out of 6 years.
Harper found a quote to fit his argument.
I am not going to profess a great knowledge of the minor league system but I just was wondering what exactly is enough? Really?
If say Pelfrey, Holt, Matz, Harvey are to be considered power arms as Maniac suggests and you add Parnell, Mejia, Familia and Armando Rodriguez to the mix that is still not enough?
That is without even considering the lower International amateur draft signings that I have no knowledge about or just low A ball players in general.
So what is enough?
What the Mets are the most guilty of is rushing the pitchers before they are ready for the major leagues. They don’t know how to develop them to maximize their potential. Mejia fails in AA then wins bullpen job in spring. Holt gets invite to spring training after 10 starts in short season A. Pelfrey gets drafted and is called up a YEAR later. That’s why these guys get injured, that’s why they never meet expectations, that’s why they are always underwhelming.
I think what this Mets’ official meant by not drafting enough power arms was outside of the 1st round, the Mets didn’t draft much power arms, and if they did they didn’t go overslot to sign them. Sure, they took Brant Rustich in the second round back in 07 but can you name any other power arm drafted in the second round or later off the top off your head besides Rustich, Parnell, Goeddel, Allen, and Dotson? It seems like everyone i read about is in the Gee/Cohoon mold.
It seems a bit of a stretch to suggest he was referring to outside the 1st rd but by the same token the possibility exists that he may have meant that.
It would of been nice if he was more articulate with his thoughts.
The question would then be is when compared to other team systems how much more or less power arms do other teams have in their systems compared to the Mets?
Omar’s biggest failure was the farm system. It was bad when he took the job and bad when he left. There is little pithing with the exception of Mejia who is probably overrated. Is he a top starter, a #3. or another Dotel. There is no other highly rated pitcher in the system. The top rated every day player is Flores who is in Single A and had an OBP around 750.
Some of Minaya’s draft picks
Amateur Players Drafted /Signed before and during the 2005 season
Player Round
Michael A Pelfrey 1st
Jonathon J Niese 7th
Robert A Parnell 9th
Joshua Thole 13th
Fernando Martinez amateur free agent
Amateur Players Drafted /Signed before and during the 2006 season
Player Round
Joseph M Smith 3rd
Daniel T Murphy 13th
Ruben Tejada amateur free agent
Amateur Players Drafted /Signed before and during the 2007 season
Player Round
Lucas C Duda 7th
Dillon Gee 21st
Amateur Players Drafted /Signed before and during the 2008 season
Player Round
Isaac B Davis 1st
Kirk R Nieuwenhuis 3rd
Mark E Cohoon 12th
Amateur Players Drafted /Signed before and during the 2009 season
Player Round
Darrell Ceciliani 4th
Amateur Players Drafted /Signed before and during the 2010 season
Player Round
Matthew Harvey 1st
Blake Forsythe 3rd
Cory Vaughn 4th
Source: http://realdirtymets.com/2010/09/23/where-did-minaya-go-wrong/
Omar replaced the Director of Scouting in Oct. 2005 with his own guy from Texas. The person responsible for drafting Pelfrey, Niese, Thole, Parnell was a holdover from the previous administration. No one can say what impact Omar had on these picks or in subsequent one’s but clearly the primary asset of the guys we drafted afterwords was how quickly they could get up here. Not how well they could play.
You are so wrong! Blame Minaya for a lot of things, but not for the players he drafted.
Our Farm System had been very good when the Wilpon’s became 50% partners with Doubleday in November of 1986. Since then it has gone downhill. The number of high picks pissed away on underachieving and injury prone one dimensional has beens has had a HUGE effect on the team. And then with chances to get picks back by offering arb to our own free agents and get a couple of these picks back, we dont. We either don’t offer it or trade the player so someone else can. No other team in MLB values the farm system less than we do and consequently no other team in baseball has to round out their team with so many rejects like we do.
What’s enough? No such number. You keep going after them. Look at the bums drafted for years. We’ve had “5 tool prospects” that did nothing. Carlos Gomez and Lastings Milledge are just 2 more of recent vintage. It’s been going on for YEARS. Scouting is lame. Illustration of Mets woes: Yankees sign HIDEKI Matsui; Mets sign KAZ Matsui.
I agree there is no such number. That is why the idea they haven’t drafted enough power arms is weak due to how vague the insinuation is.
The writer has no idea what is enough and is just speculating to make his point.
Making it a no win situation for the Mets because unless you can say what is enough how can you say they haven’t already reached it?
“Yankees sign HIDEKI Matsui; Mets sign KAZ Matsui”
Clearly the Mets have a history of bad signings but let’s not pretend they are alone in that endeavor.
While Hideki Matsui was a great signining Kei Igawa was not to name just one.
Let’s not forget Hideki IRABU. Another Yanks gem from the Far East.
here’s a sampling of cashman signings. alot of suckage in there up until damon in 2006.
December 7, 2001 – signed Steve Karsay as a free agent from Atlanta Braves
December 13, 2001 – signed Jason Giambi as a free agent from Oakland A’s
December 17, 2001 – signed Rondell White as a free agent from Chicago Cubs
January 17, 2002 – signed David Wells as a free agent from Chicago White Sox
December 19, 2002 – signed Hideki Matsui as a free agent from Yomiuri Giants
February 6, 2003 – signed Jose Contreras as an amateur free agent
December 16, 2003 – signed Tom Gordon as a free agnet from Chicago White Sox
December 19, 2003 – signed Gary Sheffield as a free agent from Atlanta Braves
January 6, 2004 – signed Kenny Lofton as a free agent from Chicago Cubs
December 5, 2005 – signed Kyle Farnsworth as a free agent from Atlanta Braves
January 3, 2006 – signed Johnny Damon as a free agent from Boston Red Sox
December 18, 2008 – signed C.C. Sabathia as a free agent from Milwaukee Brewers
December 18, 2008 – signed A.J. Burnett as a free agent from Toronto Blue Jays
January 6, 2009 – signed Mark Teixeira as a free agent from Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
Obviously this meets AA approval. Should be a relatively calm day.
Of all those names Omar drafted, are any of them All Stars? We may be a 500 team without Beltran, or Reyes, or Wright in the line up. Trade one or 2(Beltran) eat some salary and start building a farm system and prospects. It still works for Oakland.
Clearly if by All Star you mean on Wright’s level then the answer is no unless you wish to add Pelfrey to the mix which would be a bit of a stretch I would think.
Had some of his picks actually been All Star caliber players he prob would still be here as GM of the Mets.
Still it cannot be denied that many of his picks have made a positive contribution to the team.
Asig, I think that’s a bit unfair. It generally takes around 5 years for an amatuer draftee to become a significant addition to a major league roster. Omar had only six drafts, and those drafted in his first two years can really only be judged. Pelfrey, Niese and Murphy really can only be judged to reflect Omar’s drafting ability currently. And you can argue Pelfrey and Niese, as 15 game (potential) winners, are very, very good pitchers. It’s not fair to judge Omar as a poor drafter because Duda, Gee and Ike, amongst other young players, aren’t All Stars.
The way Brian Cashman may have enjoyed the fruit of Gene Michaels labor so may Alderson be the beneficiary of Minaya’s labor.
asig, i thought the same thing as you, so i checked some of the drafts and many of the all stars that were drafted since 2005 were picked before the mets even had a pick.
here’s the 1st round from 2005, you’ll see garza, ellsbury, mccutchen, rasmus and bruce picked after pelfrey, but the real stars were picked before pelfrey:
Pick Player Team Position School
1 Justin Upton Arizona Diamondbacks SS Great Bridge High School
2 Alex Gordon Kansas City Royals 3B University of Nebraska
3 Jeff Clement Seattle Mariners C University of Southern California
4 Ryan Zimmerman Washington Nationals 3B University of Virginia
5 Ryan Braun Milwaukee Brewers 3B University of Miami
6 Ricky Romero Toronto Blue Jays LHP Cal State Fullerton
7 Troy Tulowitzki Colorado Rockies SS Long Beach State University
8 Wade Townsend Tampa Bay Devil Rays RHP Rice University
9 Mike Pelfrey New York Mets RHP Wichita State University
10 Cameron Maybin Detroit Tigers CF T. C. Roberson High School
11 Andrew McCutchen Pittsburgh Pirates CF Fort Meade High School (FL)
12 Jay Bruce Cincinnati Reds CF West Brook Senior High School
13 Brandon Snyder Baltimore Orioles C Westfield High School
14 Trevor Crowe Cleveland Indians CF University of Arizona
15 Lance Broadway Chicago White Sox RHP Texas Christian University
16 Chris Volstad Florida Marlins RHP Palm Beach Gardens Community High School
17 C.J. Henry New York Yankees[Compensation 1] SS University of Kansas
18 Cesar Carrillo San Diego Padres RHP University of Miami
19 John Mayberry, Jr. Texas Rangers RF Stanford University
20 Mark Pawelek Chicago Cubs LHP Springville High School
21 Cliff Pennington Oakland Athletics SS Texas A&M University
22 Aaron Thompson Florida Marlins[Compensation 2] LHP Second Baptist School
23 Jacoby Ellsbury Boston Red Sox[Compensation 3] CF Oregon State University
24 Brian Bogusevic Houston Astros LHP Tulane University
25 Matt Garza Minnesota Twins RHP Fresno State University
26 Craig Hansen Boston Red Sox[Compensation 4] RHP St. John’s University
27 Joey Devine Atlanta Braves RHP North Carolina State University
28 Colby Rasmus St. Louis Cardinals[Compensation 5] CF Russell County High School (AL)
29 Jacob Marceaux Florida Marlins[Compensation 6] RHP McNeese State University
30 Tyler Greene St. Louis Cardinals SS Georgia Institute of Technology
If anyone is interested in looking back at the mlb draft.
This link should be useful.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/history/draft/draft.jsp?year=2005
Mcutchen is a real star.And Bruce is close.
Also with the 42nd overall pick in that draft the Boston Red Sox took Pitcher Clay Buchholz.
Which was a compensation pick they received from the Mets for signing Pedro.
It will be interesting to see how Bryce Brentz 36th overall (compensation pick for Bay) and Anthony Ranaudo 39th overall (Compensation pick for Billy Wagner, the pick we would have received if we’d just kept Wagner and let him walk) turn out.
But the past is the past. For the first time in years I actually feel optimistic about the Mets future. Not next year, but 2012 and beyond.
Nosh, you just can’t say who we would have picked w/those choices. It could have been anyone. The point is Boston with a lot of talent mostly in the B/C dept may have gone high risk/high reward who knows. Brentz is looking decent who can say how it turns out. It’s the thinking that has me so angry about this trade. Carter is a guy who was going to be removed from the 40 man roster to make room for other prospects the Red Sox wanted to protect. In other words he was going to be exposed to waivers and Theo KNEW he might lose him so he turns him into 2 #1 draft choices. Unbelievable. We give up TWO of the best amateur players in the country for a DH. Hard to believe. All I can say is that this one incredibly stupid trade clearly shows the Mets (Jeff or Omar’s) general feelings about the draft in general. I mean c’mon a DH? Who you could have picked up on waivers in a few months? In the NL? Over TWO of the top 50 rated amateur players in the whole Country? For a team that has to rely on either high priced free agents, other team’s rejects or prospects 2 years or more from being able to help. Sinful.
I’m not sure what we’ll be without Beltran, or Reyes, or Wright in the line up, but with them we’ll still be only a .500 team. One reason is I don’t think Johan will be back next year. If he is, he’ll still need another year to get it all together. Let’s face it, Omar left us with a mediocre team, and it has had some devastating injuries.
That was last year, but how many games were all three in the same game at the same time, while 100%?
If these guys stay healthy, plus Bay, this team right there can improve.
I really hope that these unnamed Met sources dry up now that Alderson is here. I am tired of hearing from guys who bite the hand that feeds them.
I doubt it JDon. I mean this is NY when was the last time you saw something announced that was not leaked 1st?
Even the Yankees have the same problem. It’s par for the course.
i’ve always suspected jay horwitz leaks the info.
That guess is as good as any I suppose.
Personally I think there are many sources but that is just a hypothetical there is no way to ever prove it.
This why I love and respect this site. After reading Joe’s blog about Ricciardi I was very leery of the guy. Then I read this post that completely offers a different perspective that actually reflects nicely on this guy that I knew absolutely nothing about before tonight. I think everybody deserves a second chance, and aside from those bad contracts why not give him a chance to help our team if he’s interested? I also feel the same way about Frankie Rodriguez, everybody is so willing to forgive Backman for his domestic issues well I think K-Rod deserves that same opportunity. Also, getting back to Ricciard, if Alderson sees him as someone who could help him turn the team around, who are we to argue? I think he should surround himself with people he deems to be integral to his success and ours. Sorry, Joe, but I think we’ll be okay if Sandy hires Ricciardi. I hope all my friends had a happy halloween.
I’d love JP and Depodesta. For the simple fact that they are from OUTSIDE the organization. And with Alderson leading the way I feel 100 times better about the future of this organization.
Also note this is the first positive thing I’ve said about the Mets in 2 years.
I love the idea that he is from outside the Organization. I just hope the whole roster isn’t going to be a lab experiment to prove/disprove theories and be done at the expense of all around good players.
Also as far as Beltran is concerned, since you’re going to be paying the majority of his salary anyway and probably can’t get much of a prospect for him, why not keep him let him walk at the end of the year and take the compensation pick you get for him. It’s always a top 45 pick and is probably the best talent we could get for him.
Here’s an article that takes a look back at past Minaya drafts:
http://www.mlbbonusbaby.com/2010/02/12/2010-draft-preview-new-york-mets/
Here’s another article which ranks the scouting directors of every team. Rudy Terrasas was ranked last. Note that both articles were written before the 2010 draft.
http://www.mlbbonusbaby.com/2010/03/13/weekend-column-ranking-the-scouting-directors/
No doubt that drafting the right amateur players is a skill or depending on how you look at it, a crap shoot. What bothers me is what can happen to a young player like a Jenry Mejia who comes up through the minor leagues as a starting pitcher. He attends rookie camps and spring training and shows he has electric stuff and seems unfazed by all that goes on. So, the team looking for a “phenom” situation decides to being him up as a relief pitcher instead. Okay, we all know what happened and now the team has turned around again and Mejia is back where he was last year but has tasted failure instead of success. Take a mistake like this and then add in the idea that here is a foreign kid who barely speaks English and he is playing on the biggest stage in the world…..a real bummer huh…..
We need to have leadership that will not waiver on decisions and stick with the plans as they were.
Nosh is correct. Right now, Carlos Beltran is not going to bring back enough to trade him and the Mets would be eating lots of his salary anyway. As he will be looking for a new contract next year, he will be rehabbing that knee diligently this winter and will be coming to spring training with something to prove. If his knee is better then we will once again have a stud player out there and could then trade him for value before the deadline next year or let him walk and take the compensation pick instead.
Unless, the team decides to make major free agent additions this off season then having a healthy Carlos Beltran will only make us respectable again but how much more should we expect as of now.
Samdy Alderson will not be coming out of the saloon door with guns blazing to straighten this team out. He will systematically observe and then with his new staff begin to clean our house of the deadwood. It is his way!