30
2010
As For J.P. Ricciardi And Paul DePodesta…
An article by 
I’m reading several different reports that Sandy Alderson may bring former ousted GM’s J.P. Ricciardi and Paul DePodesta to the Mets.
What can I tell you about them? Not much, but being that I have no intention of reading either of their memoirs or auto biographies, I can only look at their record and whatever tidbits I can find on other sites like… Wikipedia?
Like this one for example which I’m actually referencing from Matt Cerrone the blogfather of Mets blogs. Matt writes,
The way I see it, DePodesta would be a great hire. He’s super smart. I realize he was unsuccessful as a GM, but he’s still very highly regarded around the game for his research, critical thinking and command of the business of the game.
His Wikipedia reads:
”DePodesta has been somewhat controversial in that his decisions have been heavily influenced by sabermetric principles. He is often considered part of a new breed of front-office executives whose personnel decisions rely heavily on analysis of performance data, often at the perceived expense of more traditional methods of scouting and observation.”
Well it’s good that he’s super smart yet unsuccessful as a GM, sort of like umm… Omar Minaya, and his apparent command of the business of the game, well, I’m sure that can’t hurt.
All kidding aside, as long as DePodesta is not our GM, I don’t have a problem with him having a role on the team. We already know that Alderson has a high regard for advanced metrics, and we should expect hires like this. I do believe Alderson will keep his word. He said on Friday that he would consider all things in addition to stats because ”there’s other important things in baseball that cannot be measured”. (like scouting reports, character, makeup, etc.)
It looks like DePodesta’s problem was that he in fact did ignore scouting reports and observations which only ended up leading him to the unemployment line, at least until the Padres came knocking.
As for J.P…. the former Mets minor leaguer is also a strong advocate of sabermetrics and spent some time as Alderson’s assistant when they were together in Oakland.
Ricciardi probably is not as “super smart” as DePodesta, because Big Paul probably would have never given Vernon Wells a contract like this one:
Vernon Wells – 7 Years at $126 million dollars
2008 – $9.0 MM
2009 – $10.0 MM
2010 – $21.0 MM
2011 – $23.0 MM
2012 – $21.0 MM
2013 – $21.0 MM
2014 – $21.0 MM
Gulp… He signed Wells to that deal after a 2007 season in which Wells batted .245 with 16 home runs and 80 RBIs, based purely on statistical probability. That may be one of the worst contracts of this decade. Plus he gave him a full no-trade clause. I may never cry over the Oliver Perez contract again.
So what… big deal… every general manager makes a bad deal now and then, right?
After that crippling contract was signed, he doled out another $70 million dollars to Alex Rios in a ghastly seven year deal which runs through 2014 as well.
Soon after, the Blue Jays tried desperately to move both of them because of the financial stranglehold those contracts placed on the team. They were not successful moving either of them, but lucked out when they finally placed Rios on waivers and he was claimed by the White Sox. But still, they got nothing in return for a player they made a seven year commitment to.
Other doozies include a $17 million, three-year deal for Corey Koskie, and a $47 million, five-year deal for B.J. Ryan who was eventually released soon after his back problem was revealed to be an elbow injury instead that required Tommy John surgery. Ricciardi’s reason for lying was as follows as reported by MLB.com:
Last week, during a radio call-in show on the FAN 590 AM in Toronto, Ricciardi admitted that the team intentionally fabricated the back problem to protect the pitcher from questioning by the press.
“There’s a lot of things we don’t tell the media, because the media doesn’t need to know it and the fans don’t need to know it. They’re not lies if we know the truth.”
Wow… Did he really say that?
There’s more.
He also pissed of the MLB Players Association and really took a cheap shot at Adam Dunn when he said this about him responding to a question:
“Did you know the guy doesn’t really like baseball that much? Do you know the guy doesn’t have a passion to play the game that much? There’s a reason why you’re attracted to some players and there’s a reason why you’re not attracted to some players. I don’t think you’d be very happy if we brought Adam Dunn here.”
For a team that already has had it’s share of embarrassing moments and memories we would like to forget, a loose cannon like Ricciardi just seems like a bad idea.
So based on my non-exhaustive, and unextensive research, I’ll give Paul DePodesta one thumb up, and as for J.R. definitely two thumbs down.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
Went to my first Mets game, a Mayors Trophy game at Shea, in '73. We beat the Yankees 8-4 and I was hooked. I marched in two Banner Day parades, and before the Grand Slam single, there was the "Hendu Can Do" grand slam - I was there. I've collected Mets memorabilia all my life and started Mets Merized Online to feed my addiction.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 17 | .605 | - |
| Nationals | 25 | 17 | .595 | 0.5 |
| Marlins | 23 | 19 | .548 | 2.5 |
| Mets | 22 | 20 | .524 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 22 | .488 | 5.0 |
Last updated: 05/22/2012
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Haven’t read too much on JP but you might find these 2 sites interesting in regards to Depodesta.
The best unemployed GM in baseball
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-best-out-of-work-gm-in-baseball/
Paul DePodesto’s Blog
http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.com/
Both would be welcome additions, especially DePo.
And for the record, Joe D. has yet to issue a correction for the misinformation he provided in his post about Sandy Alderson, when he used one wrong sentence from Wikipedia to claim that Alderson only employed advanced statistical analysis starting in 1995. In reality, Alderson was a pioneer of the field, starting the 1980s as this ESPN article discusses:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=schwarz_alan&id=2048402
“But 24 years ago (1981), a pair of Stanfordites approached Sandy Alderson with an idea that would ultimately change the course of baseball history.
“We have a computer project to do, and we want to do an analysis of baseball players,” the two business-school students said. “Is there anything we can tackle for you?”
Alderson, a young former attorney just one year into his tenure with the Oakland A’s, thought about it for a moment and realized that, in fact, there was.
“Here are some statistics,” he said, handing over piles of old Elias Sports Bureau data. “Run a regression analysis on them, and tell me which ones correlate best with team run production.”
Some time later, the students came back with the result. The most beneficial statistic was not batting average, which in 1982 was still the gold standard of player evaluation. It was not stolen bases, which Rickey Henderson was then piling up for the A’s to great fanfare.
It was on-base percentage, and to a lesser extent, slugging percentage. Alderson smiled because at heart he was an Earl Weaver man – disdaining the out, worshipping the home run – and had suspected that OBP would stand above the others. This confirmed it.
Thus began the on-base revolution.
Alderson constructed his Oakland clubs in large part around on-base percentage – getting high ones from hitters and low ones from pitchers – and did it well enough to build the game’s most successful franchise during 1988-92.
James intrigued him, but no statistical mind influenced Alderson more than that of Eric Walker. A former aerospace engineer then working for National Public Radio in the Bay Area, Walker also dabbled in baseball analysis and even wrote a small book on the subject. In the summer of 1982 he approached Alderson with ideas that corroborated those of the Stanford Business School students – specifically those regarding the walk and home run as primary offensive weapons. Alderson hired Walker as a consultant, and kept him on for the rest of his Oakland tenure.
“Sandy had a lot of guts hiring me,” said Walker, who now lives in eastern Washington. “He was someone who wanted to have reasons for doing things. They had to make sense. It was pretty rare for baseball then.”
Most of Oakland’s moves in the mid-to-late 1980s were made with OBP in mind. The A’s drafted pure slugger Mark McGwire over two speedier and more complete players, Shane Mack and Oddibe McDowell; they dumped free-swinging shortstop Alfredo Griffin for pitcher Bob Welch; they acquired Reggie Jackson, Dave Henderson, Rickey Henderson and Ken Phelps, all of whom fit the walk-and-homer profile. The result? Four division titles and three pennants from 1988 through ’92.”
Hopefully Alderson can bring this type of innovation (finding undervalued players) to the Mets.
Joe D. would have known the Wikipedia information was false if he had actually read the book “Moneyball”, which he didn’t. Joe D. used this one wrong sentence to act as an expert on both Alderson’s past and “Moneyball”. I’m just pointing this out in the name of fact-based discussion and getting things right. And because he used misinformation to write the bizarre post slamming another writer. Needed to get that off my chest. I’m not expecting any kind of response, knowing how things work, but there it is.
Of course you would like both of them. It’s for one reason only – how shocking.
But now we conveniently leave out the steroid use of 1988-1992, correct?
Spin the numbers round and round anyway you want, right? Isn’t that the way it is?
How about having the premier closer of the time during 88-92? Dennis Eckersley – kind of like would the Yankees have all those titles without Mariano Rivera? Probably not.
Like it or not and i’m not a big fan of it myself but wasn’t that also the time Tony LaRussa changed the way we looked at relief pitchers by instituting a 9th inning closer?
Oh yea but give all the credit to advanced metrics, right?
BS.
Seek professional help.
Agreed!!!
and what are you agreeing about..you’re another one that comes here with false stories by irresponsible writers.
What happened To Jerry Manuel and his flight home to California to coach for William Jessup College…even though the information you quoted was 4 years ago.
William Jessup college does not have a baseball team.
I’m not going to dignify your confusion and your misleading comments beyond saying you are a jerk. Pity the kids you claim to have coached.
I wish that both of you could forget whatever happened in the past and get along. I don’t mind when we go off on trolls from other sites that come here just to start trouble, but it’s sad to see two lontime MMO readers that I respect take shots at each other. I think both of you are very savvy and informed and I really enjoy chatting with both of you. Des, last summer, you encouraged me to get along with someone I was fighting with and I took your advice and all is cool now. I’d like to see you and Bayonne be more instructive and constructive rather than destructive against each other. Everybody here benefits if you had healthy debates with each other where we could all chime in. At least think about it.
“they acquired Reggie Jackson, Dave Henderson, Rickey Henderson and Ken Phelps, all of whom fit the walk-and-homer profile. The result? Four division titles and three pennants from 1988 through ’92.”
…James K quotes Alan Sch…whatever his name is.
Ken Phelps-
1988 played with Seattle & The Yankees
1989 – 9 ABs with A’s. Had 1 hit.
1990 – Had 59 ABs w/A’s. Hit 1 HR, batted .186
Did not play with Oakland in 1991 and 1992.
Reggie Jackson-
Retired in 1987. His last hit was a broken-bat single Oct. 4, 1987 (source – Wikipedia)
…Only when you start using facts instead of spinning things around to support your useless crusade about advanced metrics
As a matter of fact if the Mets had a little bit more luck with their closers things could be different around here. Some pretty big games were blown that would have re-written our history over the last 10 years or so.
But you chose advanced-metrics over Eckersley, McGwire, Canseco, steroids..and Carney Lansford. Gotta spin those numbers around right?
Also, i don’t remember each individual game during those playoff runs but were there any big errors, or big plays that decided any of these games. How come we’re not talking about Oakland’s infield and outfield defense during this time. Absolutely no way they would have won so much during those years if they didn’t have a good defensive team as well. But hey…advanced metrics, right?
Oh..and if you missed my post from before:
“You should read books about infield defense, what the daylight play is, how to align your outfield defense depending what men are on base. Who is your cut-off man to home on a single to LF w/bases loaded, what does 1B do when when a hitter hits one into the gap, why you see 2 infielders getting a cut off in short LF when there’s a ball hit into the gap. Why you should give a sign for the daylight play from the dugout. Who gives the sign to the catcher to give to the pitcher or should the catcher call the game, and on and on and on. And that’s all off the top of my head.
There’s plenty of books and online resources for you to look at if you want to learn that stuff. That’s baseball.”
bayonne we are talking about player analysis, we dont care about your basic little league fundamentals. you are only saying that crap because you think it makes you sound like you know something. it is wildly and totally irrelevant.
“they acquired Reggie Jackson, Dave Henderson, Rickey Henderson and Ken Phelps, all of whom fit the walk-and-homer profile. The result? Four division titles and three pennants from 1988 through ’92.”
…James K quotes Alan Sch…whatever his name is.
Ken Phelps-
1988 played with Seattle & The Yankees
1989 – 9 ABs with A’s. Had 1 hit.
1990 – Had 59 ABs w/A’s. Hit 1 HR, batted .186
Did not play with Oakland in 1991 and 1992.
Reggie Jackson-
Retired in 1987. His last hit was a broken-bat single Oct. 4, 1987 (source – Wikipedia)
“they acquired Reggie Jackson, Dave Henderson, Rickey Henderson and Ken Phelps, all of whom fit the walk-and-homer profile. The result? Four division titles and three pennants from 1988 through ’92.”
…James K quotes Schwartz and believes it.
Well, Ricky Henderson…he was already a hall of fame player but hey…James K says sabermetrics determined that the A’s should get him back. Would ANYBODY need sabermetrics to tell then that they would like Rickey Henderson to be their leadoff hitter in the 80s? I don’t think so
….Me.
Dave Henderson? He did a good job for Boston too in 1986, remember?
OWNED!
I’d love the idea of bringing in DePodesta but keep Riccardi far, far, FAR away from the Mets. I’d rather bring in someone like John Hart than that fool.
Riccardi is so smart he outsmarted himself.
Love the humor in the article Joe.
as long as there’s no way contract negotiations ever get in Ricciardi’s hands, i don’t have a problem with hiring him.
also, i would like the DePodesta hiring alot.
Ricciardi sounds like a POS. He ruined the Blue Jays and left them no money to re-sign Doc Halladay. Please keep him away.
joe seems to be aware that this sort of stats vs random nonsense argument is a big pageview draw. money in his pocket.
Lying to the fans is random nonsense? That Wells contract is random nonsense? You only want stats and choose to ignore the facts. If a non saber guy did those actions and the Mets were interested, you would jump down his throat for those things. You’re a fraud. Why don’t you and James K go troll over at Metsblog.
no, the random nonsense is whatever thing other than objective stats that you guys are thinking makes a good player. like clubhouse grit.
Why do you come to a site where you will not find the charts, graphs, spreadsheets and numerology you crave? Your behavior is baffling. Who frequents a site that they hate and stays there for hours on end. Thats why you geeks scare us so much. You’re all creepy troll like figures.
i dont hate this site. it is dishonest of you to suggest i do. why would you be dishonest? and please the topic is baseball, not me.
riccardi also traded a player to be named for jose bautista, and bobby kielty for ted lilly.
those are two pretty good trades.
Joe D.
Why take shots at AA? Obviously you aren’t a fan of how they view certain stats. That’s fine and all but seriously it’s kind of silly to keep taking unnecessary pokes at them. It’d be nice if you realized saber and scouting can be used together to come to one conclusion for the betterment of the Mets. I frequent both sites and I gather info from both. I’m sure Alderson will do the same with stats and scouting. We all root for the Mets. What difference does it make how they become a successful franchise? As long as it happens! LGM
Not to argue or anything, but where was the poke at AA. I’ve seen him get trashed personally many times on AA. The only time they mention this site is to poke fun or laugh or mock the readers here. There are regulars there that try to make him look bad everytime he posts. In our chat room we talk about it all the time. I’ve never know him to leave comments trying to embarass writers at AA. But yet they troll here constantly. Up until this season they would leave uncalled for comments and I dont know if they stopped ot they were just banned but you should have seen the stuff they would drop on us in there. Anyhow I hope it stops too because it’s unproductive and we’re all on the same side. Lets Go Mets!
Like I said. It should stop. I’ve been a member there for s few months now and yes they rip MMO but I’ve seen it where you guys rip AA too. The point is there is room for both metrics as well as scouting. It’s not something that should get this heated. Both AA and MMO have the same desires. Winning a WS and shutting up Skanks and Phillthies fans.
JP & Billy Beane actually became friends while within the NY Mets farm system.
Somebody mentioned John Hart… forget about that.
I would love to hear both JP & DePo are heading to NY Mets. The more young, smart people we have in the front office… the better
I can understand if some of you were say just a kid but I’m assuming most people here are over 18 so I am at a loss for much of the commentary back n forth amongst many here.
I mean like really what is it going to take for some of you to just know when to say when?
It’s like getting harder and harder to filter through this to find a reasonable comment to have an exchange with.
Sorry Mr. North Jersey, I usually bite my tongue, but if you see every post the first comment is almost always a troll from AA that starts it up. They rip this site all the time and James K encourages it.
Look at this thread for instance:
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/9/3/1667093/strained-pec-applesauce-santana#45874990
They rip all of us, me bayonne, kay, all the regulars and it looks like they sent martin to troll us and he hasn’t left since.
I’ll shutup about it, but we’ve taken years of abuse from them.
An apology is not required or necessary. Believe me.
I like MMO I just don’t recall so much borderline forgive me for saying this but childish behavior.
This “I am smarter than you/pissing contest” is in full effect.
Normally you make your point and if your lucky after a civil discussion you hopefully agree or agree to disagree and move on.
Sure sometimes you come across an idiot or two that have the capacity of a 10 yr old when it comes to debating differing views but once you know your speaking to an idiot the debate is rendered meaningless since no good will come of it and that person is no longer worthy of one’s time.
At least you would hope that but like wow those ideals don’t apply with some I guess.
I like the DePodesta hire as an assistant.
I actually don’t mind the Ricciardi potential hire either. The big rules are to NEVER give him a live mike and NEVER EVER let him near contract negotiations. These may actually be the same problems with Minaya. Keep him far away from any authority, but as part of the Alderson team, it may not be that bad.
As GM’s, I don’t trust them; but as assistants to Alderson, who they will listen to, me likey.
Exactly. There is no indication that Ricciardi will be around contracts. Both of these guys “failed” as GM’s, although dePodesta was working for a cheapskate idiot. You apply the Peter principle: everyone rises to their own level of incompetence. Maybe they are cut out to be just assistants. Toronto certainly has brought along good young players. If they are here to perform specific functions at which they have proven themselves competent in the past, what can be the problem?
[OFF TOPIC] Did anyone see this?
“Takahashi wants a two- or three-year deal, but the Mets’ original incentive-laden offer was for only one guaranteed year.”
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/mets-offer-to-takahashi-is-for-only-a-year/
I dont see Takahashi signing for less than 2 years.
just a first offer. Offer 1, he asks for 3, they eventually settle on some variation of a 2 year deal.
That makes sense. Either way we need him back.
Some of us seem to be judging Alderson already. (Bayonne) Quotes like hes had Eckersley, ignorning the steroid issues, are reasons why hes a success. As if he had nothing to do with building a franchise.
Damn, I hate to see if he goes only around 500 next year. Then half of us will want Backman as GM. Give the guy a chance, its only been 48hours. Patience.
you misunderstood,
Nothing against Alderson, I’m as happy as heck he’s our new GM, love the press conference and agreed w/just about everything he said.
My point was how James K erroneously attributed the success of the 88-92 A’s to ONLY to advanced metrics. There were more important factors for their success during that time too – he failed to mention the steroid use of McGwire and Canseco. How do you know that did not help? How about the success of the best reliever of that time – Eckersley.
James K quoted some writer who said this:
“they acquired Reggie Jackson, Dave Henderson, Rickey Henderson and Ken Phelps, all of whom fit the walk-and-homer profile. The result? Four division titles and three pennants from 1988 through ’92.”
Reggie Jackson retired in 1987, Ken Phelps had a total of 68 ABs in 2 years, did not play in 91 & 92 and you don’t need advanced metrics to tell you about Ricky Henderson.
Yes, good moves by Alderson but not the only reason they won.
Reggie Jackson retired in 1987.