29
2010
The People v. The Flushing Core
An article by Former Writers
For some, the jury is out. For others, the case is already made and evident. We have heard much ado about David Wright’s ability to be a leader on this team. I’ve even posted that the leader of the future is not even on this team yet. Amazingly, in posts all over this site and a few others, the question of leadership continues arises in conversations and debates. We still talk about defense, front office hi-jinks, and managerial changes but leadership still seems to rise to the top. Clearly, the fan base must think it’s that important so let’s take it to the people. Make your case.
Is David Wright or any member of the Core able to be leaders on this team or do they not just not possess the character and makeup for such a role?
Leadership is defined as “has been described as the “process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task.” Leadership is supposed to be the creation of methods and ways to open the door for people within the organization to do something unique and extraordinary in their performance. The leader’s emotion and vision are inspirational, motivational, and a driving force within the organization, charisma and self confidence not withstanding. One thing that seems to be lost in the leadership theorem is vocal articulation.
Can you have a strong leader without being a vocal one? Some seem to think so. They call them “the strong, silent type”. Is this effective in an organization like a baseball franchise or any organization for that matter? In football, on teams like the Vikings, Colts, Patriots, and Chargers, the quarterback is confrontational, in your face, and challenges his team when he thinks it’s required. Any one of these can be seen yelling at his teammates on the sideline and even right outside of the huddle. Like it or not, there isn’t any doubt who the leaders of these teams are. On championship teams such as the Lakers (Kobe), Heat (Wade/Shaq), Celtics (Garnett/Pierce), and the Spurs (Robinson), there were also clear, vocal leaders. What about in baseball?
Case For: When Boston lost their MVP and most vocal leaders in Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis, their season practically went down the toilet. I don’t believe that his production was the only thing that was missed during that stretch. The Angels have Bobby Abreu and Torii Hunter. Ian Desmond and Brian McCann are other examples for.
Case Against: On the other side of the coin, Johnny Bench wasn’t a vocal leader but sparingly but he led the team with his play and was known by his peers as an outstanding leaders, Gold Gloves and MVP awards not withstanding. Derek Jeter was never a true vocal leader but he was surrounded by them: Tino Martinez. Paul O’Neill. Jorge Posada. Mariano Rivera. Roger Clemens. Especially Posada but Jeter was still considered the face and leader of the franchise.
So which side of the topic are you on and why?
About the Author: Former Writers
81 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 17 | .605 | - |
| Nationals | 25 | 17 | .595 | 0.5 |
| Marlins | 23 | 19 | .548 | 2.5 |
| Mets | 22 | 20 | .524 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 22 | .488 | 5.0 |
Last updated: 05/22/2012
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Write Your Own Mets Post
The next leader of this team will be the next manager. That’s where the tone will be set.
Talk about team leaders AFTER the next manager is named.
Using your logic, talk about the next second baseman AFTER the next manager is named!!! LOL.
I was waiting for the logic but it never came. I’m kind of disappointed. (tongue in cheek) I think this issue is one of the primary reasons why so many Met fans have been griping about what they’ve seen. It’s easy to blame the Wilpons primarily but we have seen four years of evidence that there are some real issues beyond just personnel on this team. Name all of the issues for our friend if you have six months to spare.
As always it’s a thought provoking article. Thanks Yu.
Over the past several years I have evolved from being a Wilpon (any and all of them, though with each the issues are unique) supporter to now a full fledged skeptic. My original stance supporting their leadership was optimistic, perhaps even naive. They are mediocre owners of a gold mine franchise. Yet they continue to make small town decisions.
The issues go far beyond Omar. Many fans vent their spleen on him. He too is a victim of the Wilpon’s poor judgment and he has been hamstrung by their meddling and penny pinching. So while I haven’t always agreed with him, I cut him some slack. He’s not the master talent evaluator some think him to be, but he’s also not the awful executive. He’s an average quality GM who is just not at the pinnacle of his profession.
Likewise, Jerry as the manager takes a lot of heat but given the hand he has been dealt, I think he has done an OK job — not good, not terrible. I like the way he relates to and handles the media. Most damning to me has been his handling of the bullpen and his abysmal treatment of Ryan Church, Daniel Murphy and Luis Castillo. All of them had major injuries which were minimized by Omar and Jerry. To his credit, he has been more deferential with the handling of injuries lately.
He’s not the master talent evaluator???? Name me a GM that has as many Hall of Fame/All-Star players he scouted. It’s a disgrace that the media in this city doesn’t recognize the talent this man is personally responsible for throughout his scouting and GM career. Meanwhile, an APE like Brian Cashman is looked upon as some shrewd GM.
You have to ask yourself why the media dislikes Omar. It’s really borderline pathetic and an example of what happens when the media’s ability to control a clubhouse is ruined by a GM who doesn’t effectively communicate in the proper language. I challenge anyone to look @ ALL the drafts from 2005 to the present. Find me a GM that has more players make the bigs and contribute than Omar has in the same time frame.
By comparison, Brian Cashman has been working for the Yankees since 1998 and he has yet to draft a successful everyday starting player for the Yankees. The closest he has come is the bootleg Lenny Dykstra AKA Brett Gardner. On the international front, the only successful everyday starter he has signed has been Robinson Cano. This is going back to 1998. The guy is a joke, but you wouldn’t know it if you read the daily scribes or listen to sports talk radio in NYC.
Anyone who thinks Omar Minaya is an average GM is plain uninformed.
First of all no one here knows how much input the GM has in the draft or Int’l free agency. I would think it would be a lot but who knows? The reality is it probably differs by organization. Second, I couldn’t care less about what the press thinks of Brian Cashman or anyone else. Reading between the lines your issue really is the main stream media’s setting perceptions (right or wrong) differently based on race. That is a valid topic that deserves exploration. I happen to agree that there should be Latin reporters especially in baseball, and other things that lots of Spanish people are so well represented in. I love to hear other people’s perspectives. To some extent your doing that with (and for) everyone here and I appreciate hearing different opinions about things I’m interested in. One thing that used to absolutely kill me is when sportswriters would say that someone was going to play winter ball. And never say where. Finally they started saying in Venezuela, the DR or whatever but they would never give the team that they would be playing for, as if the DR was this big vast area and it didn’t even matter. Like how I used to think of everything above Yonkers as being “upstate” Like it had tumbleweeds and people living in caves or something. I’d love to hear or read about the Mets or baseball in general or other interests of mine from a Latin perspective. But as for the topic we are discussing here we all know about Sosa. Great sign. Can you (and I really hope you answer this question) tell us which other Hall of Fame/All-Stars did Omar scout?
I’ll take that non answer as a “there were no others.” Thanks anyway, Jimmy.
This is a site open to all. If you feel “uncomfortable” talking about leadership on this team, you don’t have to. Millions of people can’t be wrong and wherever you go, this is a topic of discussion and I think it’s a valid one. Just because it’s irrelevant in your world doesn’t make it a non-issue. Just sayin’
Yu or whatever the hell your name is,
What are you talking about? I never said anything about irrelevance. I know it’s a site open to all, I’ve been a member of MetsMerized since it was a Myspace page only back in 2006. I don’t feel uncomfortable talking about leadership or any other baseball topic on this site.
You think just because you found an outlet to work on your writing skills that you’re going to judge all of us?
You haven’t a God-Damned clue.
Again, you’ve probably NEVER stepped foot on a field in the first place.
Who the hell are you talking to?
It’s MY OPINION that THIS PARTICULAR team needs leadership to come from a new manager first before it can rely on ANY form of leadership from a player.
That’s not the case with all teams but IN MY OPINION this is the case with this team.
Sorry you got all upset just because I completely disagreed with your topic. And I bet most professionals would agree with my point of view…in THIS particular case.
Kid, don’t mess the big boys okay? Write your piece and know your boundaries. When you get a little more experience than you’ll see
Yu, the words of advice are: Don’t mess with Bayonne or Jimmy. They have the certainty that some guys who once played some baseball mistakenly think they should have. Some of the rest of us have played a lot of baseball too which might surprise them.
I appreciate your advice, Des. This is my post and my opinion. That’s what makes this country great. I actually appreciate Jimmy even when we don’t agree. I never dogged him just brought counterpoint on the issue. I just ask that commenters actually read the post and the comment before lashing out blindly. I had a dispute with someone once and we actually had the same argument. Reading is fundamental. And you’re right, some of us have baseball backgrounds too.
Here is my general comment. Some (definitely not all) of the MMO posts reveal that opinion and facts and probability and certainty are mixed up and confused. When opinions are offered by intrepid writers or commentators, the they are sometimes attacked as if the writer changed the history of our Mets with unwelcome facts or opinions. Just as bad, forecasts and predictions by posters, which are basically informed or uniformed opinions, are too often confronted with arrogance and hostility. It’s a happy world in Metsville, isn’t it, when we have a team that doesn’t meet expectations?
Damn dude, is there anybody you dont argue with? You’re regular Archie Bunker on here.
LOL, I loved that show!
There are Archie Bunkers on this site Des is not on of them.An Archie Bunker is not really an arguementative person as much as he is a bigot!I kinda like that show myself.
Thanks baby al. I’ll get you a boilermaker or whatever you want when we have a drink together. My choice is Guinness with Jagermeister, which together would rekindle the thoughts of the world class headaches of my youth. Liqueurs and beer are no longer part of the little imbibing I do. I get my headaches from the Mets these days.
Thanks for your comments, Bayonne. My “name” is right after the title.
I haven’t made any judgments about anyone so please don’t try to use me as a point to rally against so you can build yourself up. I’m not that dude. Share your opinions without insulting me (or at least trying to). You put me in a category as never played collegiate sports and that proves what I think but NEVER accused you of.
And since, I obviously confounded you again, I was talking to the comment you made specifically towards me. This is a Mets site—I don’t care if you like me or comment on my posts. This is not supposed to be personal. I just don’t agree with your point. Deal with it.
I appreciate your opinions. Don’t get that mixed up with my being upset because I’m not. I know you’re probably used to bullying kids but I’m not one of them and this is not my first time at the dance. Keep hating—you just make the comment section that much bigger. Good for me.
You don’t have to apologize, really, I’m not upset. Thanks for sharing your views on my post.
Dude,
I don’t need to build myself up and you don’t confound me. Just by your condescending tone I can tell a lot
You have a lot to go before you can catch up and now – hey, since all that matters to you is the comment count don’t count on my comments here again.
I was on this site years before a punk like you comes along and I’ll be here when you’re gone. I don’t need any buildup.
aw, you guys feelings hurt – you have any baseball thoughts you want to exchange w/me or that’s just it – feelings hurt?
your feelings hurt too?
I’m not hurt, brother, keep talking. I think at some point, we should talk about the original point. Leadership is a big deal and you’re right, it needs to start from the top.
I felt and still feel that it was missing big time on the field for the past few years and that cost us a lot of wins because the team was not together where and when it counted. Agreed on that point?
Well, what are your thoughts about the Mets then?
Or am I not being too nice? Therefore you’re all upset and call names.
Aw.
I think the Mets will have potential next year. I like alot of the guys in the farm. I think we are set for catcher and I hope Tejada gets to be our starting 2nd baseman next year. But as to you, you actually do look like you have a smell.
Oh….you got me.
Aw, all upset cuz i wasn’t nice to Yu? I’ll try to be better next time so you can say nice things about me, ok?
See, I angered you again. Please don’t go, Bayonne. If we weren’t friends, I don’t know what I’d do.
Look, Sir, I don’t know what you ascertained from our exchange so I’ll tell you so there’s no confusion between us. Although I would like comments from everyone, I won’t lie down and take the name calling like some of the younger folks may. Since you’ve been on this site so long, you know what’s expected here. I don’t care about the comment count—-just making another point missed again.
I’m not counting on you to leave comments but if you can speak eloquently to the writers’ points without insult, it would be appreciated. If you can’t, that’s fine. That’s my only beef, not with your disagreement.
A comment like that would only come from Mrs. Freddye Wilpon. U reek of class.
Leadership is a BS term. What the Mets needed the last two years were their best players healthy. What would have happened if Reyes, Ike, Bay, Wright and Beltran played 145-150 together. One thing about the last two years is true. Jerry Manuel NEVER had all his horses at one time.
Leadership is thrown out there as a topic for conversation, because the media always has their noses inside the clubhouse and unfortunately someone has to take the MISERABLE task of communicating with the vermin that crawl around looking for gossip. Leadership between the lines is all BS. Baseball is a 1 on 1 thing between the batter and the pitcher for the most part. 99.9% of baseball is skill, talent and luck.
Ah Bayonne, You played the game??? No way, no player at any level would call the manager or coach the leader of the team. You gave yourself up with that one little slip. Sorry pardner….
Sorry pardner to you
100% incorrect. A manager CAN be the leader of the team at any level. Not a slip.
This particular Mets team – leadership is going to start with the new manager, than you can take it from there. Probably if Jason Bay had a normal year he would have been an on the field leader along with Frenchy and Barajas at the time but it didn’t happen. If Bay has a typical Bay year next year I can see him assuming a leadership role but it also depends on who else is added to the roster.
I have friends in Babe Ruth that are TREMENDOUS managers and without their leadership their teams would not have one championships. Granted when you’re managing at that level you look to designate a 16 or 15 year olds (13-16 group) as one of your leaders. Obviously depending on who the kid is. I’ve managed a team where I thought I had leaders in my 15 year olds and it wound up not working out that way and had a ripple effect throughout my entire team. At the end of the day the buck stops at my door because I’m in charge of that crew.
I’ve also coached for younger age teams where the manager had bad 12 year olds (in the 10-12 year old groups) that he completely lost and it wasn’t his fault. They just unexpectedly wound up being bad kids and luckily the team at that time had a 10 year old who would up being the leader, even though he would play 1/2 a game and the team wound up going 3-10 for the season. In that case the bad attitudes overtook the talent. It was a team that should have been a championship team.
I could go on with different stories and examples but I think most of the readers got the point.
As a player, at the high school level anyway, I don’t feel my manager was the leader but he was the boss I was afraid of messing around so he had that kind of hold on us. When you get to Rec-League levels, at least here in Bayonne, It is highly competitive and a team could consist of anything from high school, college level and even 40 year old guys, as long as they can play. It’s more of a cumulative leadership then because it’s more for fun but i would say there are DEFINITELY leaders at the College level and all the more..at the level, younger men could look to a well-respected coach for leadership. ABSOLUTELY.
Tell us your experiences Harry C, please.
You feel this way because you are a manager. I’ve played millions of baseball and softball games. To me the absolute best thing is when you know your about to or have just won the game. That to me is the most fun thing of all. Walking off the field laughing and high fiving everyone and you know who I consider to be the leader? The guy that did the most that day to make that feeling possible. The guy that made every play he should and a couple other one’s too. The guy with the two, 2 out rbi’s that turned a 1 run loss into a 1 run win and the guy that didn’t give it back. Not the guy that fills out the card.
Right,
Nothing beats the moment. But there’s a lot of things happen way before that lead up to that moment. Starting with the building of the team and what you do at practice.
Bayonne, Those are important things but ML Managers don’t build the team and after ST there is little practice. How would you like it if say your team’s sponser was running up to your kids parents constantly running you down. Then the parents started asking the kids about you, making them wonder. What kind of attitude would your kids bring to the game? Who we get as a manager is like 6th on our list. #1.) How do we quarantine Jeff from baseball decisions? Without solving that no one with any other options is coming here. #2.) Who do we hire as Team President? #3.) Who does HE hire as GM #4.) Who hire’s the Manager and does the manager get to hire all of his own staff? and #5.) How do we build the 25 AND the farm at the same time? The new manager is still going to have a disjointed roster, heavy on age and under performance issues and at the very least the fallout of the Castillo, Perez and Rodriguez contracts.
T, a little housekeeping note, #1) the Team’s current President is Saul Katz, Where does this “HEAVY ON AGE” impression come from? ESPN lists our roster’s age as 10th oldest @ 28.7; but considering Baseball players’ PRIME AGES are considered to be between 28 & 32, a 28.7 average for 40 players seems damned good BTW ATL(29.3), DC(28.6) & PHL(30.5) are ALL OLDER in our division, leaving us near the youngest with FL(26.9) which I beliebve is NOT necessarily a bad place to be. Certainly bot a point to consider “HEAVY ON AGE” AS AN ISSUE. btw IBN CASE U HADN’Y NOTICED, pHILADELPHIA’S 30.5 IS THE OLDEST IN MLB! How’s that hurtin’ them ? Wouldn’t u kill to have that “HEAVU ON AGE” problem?
You can check it out for yourself @
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters/_/sort/average_age/order/true
while there u can explore the relevancy of team avg height & weight as well.
Case u forgot, T, it’s Ws-Ls that matter most NOT birth certificates or poisonous, ill informed rants by WFAN/ESPN Radio personalities paid to rev engines & not accuracy.
’62, Alou, Delgado, Bay, Franco, Castillo, Sheffield, Wagner, Desens, GMJ, Jacobs, Cora, Tatis, Blanco, Barajas, Catalanoto, Valentin, Shawn Green, Pedro, El Duque, Livan, Lima, Valentin, Easley. Each of these guys individually can be defended I guess but collectively a lot of the emphasis was placed on way too old and no where’s near enough was placed on solutions going beyond THIS YEAR. in addition many of these are/were one dimensional. Some cost a fortune. Some have cost us in the future, some both. Most of all they were counted on to defy time and no one can do that (without steroids) as Omar himself will tell you right now. And I really would like you to tell me in exactly which way is Saul Katz qualified to be President of a ML Baseball team? Did he play the game? Where? How much of his career has he spent scouting young prospects? Who has he signed? Would you say his expertise is more on the offensive side or the defensive side of the game? Where does he stand on pitching? Does he Like the young power pitcher, older breaking ball pitcher or a combination? What is his overall philosophy on baseball? Does he like small ball, the sac bunt and the hit and run or is he a power guy?
But ’62, Your sidestepping a very important issue. An issue that really makes my point about having young, very talented position players. The Phillies went to the World Series. Twice. And they might go back there again this year. And even if they don’t, they still won it all TWO years ago. We won it all TWENTY FOUR years ago. That’s a critical distinction. Try and spin that one. Yeah, the Phils are starting to show some age, might have made a couple of bad moves also. (Ibanez, too many years for Howard) Can they sustain it? That’s a different problem. THAT’S THE PROBLEM WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE.
Bayonne, it isn’t often we concur on a topic especially one as volotile as this; but SUPRISE, here we go. Baseball is a unique sport in as much as it has it’s team element like football & basketball(No helping out in coverage situations exist); but it also has it’s similar dependence heavily on individual separate singular player confrontations where teammates are left as observers & are excluded from “helping out” in actual game situations(ABs) like tennis & golf a good tennis coach can deliberate over individual matches formulating a ‘gameplan’ just as a renowned caddy can advise upon approach & club selections. Baseball is too dependant upon the individual performances of 9 specific individuals.
for example no amount of leadership could ever alter that called strike 3 on Beltran in game 7. Most NYM fans recognize the historical leadership Mex brought in his tenure esp in ’86 with his shoulder reminders to Straw to keep it ‘in’; but even his undaunted leadership was useless during their most critical time in Game 6.
I’ve long held the belief this issue is MEDIA driven in as much as the majority of it is Anglo; speaking US English, seeking keynote interviews from a predominantly ESL team. Thus they focus too much intensity upon those they’re most comfortable interviewing in depth, the Wrights,LoDucas,Francos,Wagners,Francouers,Bays. As Wright is the top performing regular in that bunch he tends to garner the majority of Media support as LEADER. Unfortunately, the Media discards the most important aspect of leadership on a growing baseball team, mentoring, Pagan displayed that this year with Mejia being taken under his wing. Santana had tried mentoring Perez; but Ollie’s health issues & stubborn nature likely dissuaded Johan from further fruitless endeavors towards him.
For the most part, there was not a team annointed(‘C’aptain) on this team until Mex(a well deserved, teammate caused/supported honor. It was quickly diluted with the ego compensating ‘C’ awarded to “KID” who’s nose became disjointed seeing Mex’s emblematic chest adornment. NY in large, throughout baseball more teams go sans ‘C’ than with one while Football propilgates multiples based on positional bent. Though many, especially within the Media, would adamantyly disagree, I believe ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDEST in that vein our most likely top leadership candidate is Beltran, inasmuch as he’s played the most, hurt, was first to respond to Rollins’ challenge & quickly & independently most recently taergeted Utley for reciprocation.
We seem leadershipless solely because of the Wilpon preference for non-contentous players like a McReynolds over a Dykstra. As Yu so appropriately points out, a young Jeeter had adequate vocalized veteran support at his back to underscore his validity. To ask a 27 yr old brought up Siring & Maming his elders his entire Southern life without a veteran chorus sining in harmony is LUDICROUS.
CAN WE PLEASE START EVALUATING OUR MOST TALENTED PLAYERS FOR WHAT THEY ARTE & NOT FOR WHAT THEY AREN’T!
MOST EXPERTS DENOTE THE PRIME YEARS FOR A MLB PLAYER AS 28-32.
REYES: 28 IN ’11
WRIGHT: 28 IN ’11
ROLLINS: 32 IN ’11
HOWARD: 31 IN ’11
UTLEY: 32 IN ’11
WHY CASTIGATE REYES & WRIGHT WHEN WE STILL HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THEIR VERY BEST!
In conclusion, NO ladies & gentlemen, our issue is NOT adequate player leadership; but, in my opinion, too lax a management sense of urgency for example under both Wilie, & Jerry too often we found ourselves in key series against our #1 protagonist of that season with a pitching rotation that featured 3,4 & 5 in the rotation.By contrast, I can not remember one key Atlanta series in the 90s or early oughts where we were not facing the Atlanta Ace of the time. There was always, usually one Smoltz game whenever we faced ATL because Cox arrainged it that way beginning the previous series for them, he’d juxtipose his rotation aligning his best against his toughest opponent, NY. But in NY that’s “not cool” perceived as panic or beneath them, somehow. For example, what bonehead believed the best opportunity to break Niese’s virginity was against the Brewers, a notorious force against the BEST LHPing? Does no one know how to read a stat sheet? Willie & Jerry were both guity of the NY, “too cool for school” attitude. Again, we saw it last night, when in an absolutely meaningless game Jerry lined up consecutive LHPing Niese, Valdez,Feliciano against virtually that same LHP devouring lineup! Would fighting for a playoff berth situation have altered his mindset? I doubt it since it didn’t when it was.
’62, How are Reyes and Wright going to lead when all the additions to the team are always older and more established vets than they are or are players too young to contribute on a ML roster? The way I see it is Reyes and Wright can lead guys like Pelfrey and Neise, but that’s it. What set Hernandez apart as a leader on the Mets was his play first of all especially on defense where the selfish player doesn’t go all out. His knowledge of the game, his confidence in his own abilities and opinions, and his fierce competetivness. Beltran could have been that guy but he’s much more quiet and once burned became even more so. He’ll lead the young guys quietly but not the team. Delgado SHOULD have been but winning was way down the list of priorities for him. Personally, I think we do have a leader on the team ready to take the reigns. He’s a younger player who has really come into his own. He’s friendly, well liked, respected, does everything well, plays great defense at a critical position, is in great physical shape, and has struggled until now so he can really relate to what young players go through. He also plays hard 100% of the time and in a unselfish way. He is also the guy best able to bridge any gap that exists between Latin, American and oriental players. He is Angel Pagan.
t, JUST AS IN ’68 & ’84 NEW LEADERSHIP IN A NEW DIRECTION(WINNING) WAS INSTILLED BY THE CORNER OFFICE OF THE CLUBHOUSE(FLD MNGR) GIL & DAVEY. SO WILL THIS NEW CROP OF PLAYERS LEARN HOW TO COMPETE AND WIN CONSISTANTLY. THOUGH TOM, DONN IN 69 KEITH IN ’84/85/86 BOTH COMPLIMENTED THE “NEW MESSAGE” SO TO WILL WRIGHT & REYES, BEING AMONG THE LONGEST TENURED IN THE CURRENT CLUBHOUSE TO WNDERWRITE THE NEW MESSAGE OF BEING ‘A MET’. I, PERSONALLY, BELIEVE BACKMAN POSSESSES THE PROPER CREDENTIALS FOR FIELD MNGT ANYWHERE; BUT I’M RESERVERD ABOUT HOW THE INFLATED NY PRESS PRESSURE WILL IMPACT HIS CONTROL OVER HIS PERSONAL DEMONS ala BILLY IN THE BRONX. IF WAlly gets the gig, I’d certainly support a bit of continuity in keeping his back covered by promoting HOJO to bench coach while importing a new hitting coach in the Rudy Jaramillo ilk. An established renowned hitting instructor secure within himself to allow established vets like Reyes & Wright to continue working with HOJO under the auspices of the “new guy”. Wright has already declared his will to conyinue to seek Johnson’s advice on his swing, why not ensure it’s still Met controlled while givin an alternative official source of instruction to everyone else not so inclined. Warthe, must remain for tyhe sake of a pitching staff that’s already endured drastic style changes by going from designer wood flooring to imported tule(lmao) Santana, Pelfrey, Dickey have ALL voiced their support for Dan, the Quiet man, and our Rotation has never been stronger with less dominant talent. As I believe we’ll need to endure an early chunk of season sans a true #1 SP, building on the modest pitching success will be essential. I certainly disagree with your assessment of Delgado not prioitizing winning(don’t know where this came from) as I believe his most driving emotion was to reach a WS & get a ring he could wear with PRIDE not the’contributor’ model he rec’d from Toronto. I do wholeheartedly concur with your sassessment of Valentine & the likely disruption he’d bring during his presumed short lived tenure(due in most part to personality conflicts with Jeff). Everyone shouild consider this: over 49 yrs the NYM employed 11 GMs nearly one third of them since Jeff became C-uh-oh!(30% of Gms in 15% of the history-8yrs)
Wow, ’62. Didn’t realize that about the % of GM’s. Says a lot. I too think Warthen did a great job. I would really like to keep him but especially with this team I want that to be the new Managers decision. Warthen probably has not been contaminated by a close relationship with Jeff and is probably old and wise enough to avoid the gossip and intrigue that Jeff brings but I don’t want a repeat of sabotage from above. Which bring us to Delgado. It’s old news, wouldn’t be discussed here except for the retrospective we’re going through now. but What was Bernazard bringing to Delgado who was then disseminating to the younger Latin players? That Willie didn”t like them? There would certainly be a place for a Manager to let a GM know something if their on the same page and working together as they should be. For that info (or outright lies) to be fed into the clubhouse and then passed around (if it did happen that way) wouldn’t have been the doing of someone desperately hoping for a ring. A leader in the Clubhouse concerned with getting a ring would have asked to discuss this with Willie (and possibly Omar too.) What was there that Willie supposedly didn’t like about Reyes? Off field?, being more selective at the plate? Willie was most likely trying to make Reyes into the best player he can be, (like the Yankees did with Cano) after all what did Willie have to gain by having Reyes mad at him? And how would Reyes knowing this help the team win? Waving at ground balls AND getting pissed about being replaced for D are incompatable with a winning attitude. We can’t know exactley what occurred between Bernazard, Delgado and Willie but it’s clear that something did and Jeff was too lacking in street smarts and maturity and fell for the con. That’s my take. Back to baseball, Who is Rudy Jaramillo?
I have had my fill of the strong and silent type leaders. Enough with that garbage I dont buy it for a minute. What we need are players who atre not afraid to call out a teammate when they screw up and make damn sure it doesnt ever happen again. Can we get some of those types of leaders?
We had them in Lo Duca and Wagner. They ruffle feathers and aren’t appreciated by the front office.
Yeah that’s right, we had them when both Wright and Reyes had the best seasons in their career as Mets and haven’t looked that good ever since. That was back in the day when Wright actually ran out ever ball in the infield and didnt go into a homerun trot off a ball hit to the warning track. That was when Oliver Perez was actually effective and Pelfrey was looking like a legit number one prospect. We’ve goptten so much better since they’ve gone.
Well said.
It’s a no brainer that we’ve deteriorated. To see how much, take the present team, then go around position by position and compare the team of three years ago with today’s team. Few fans wouldn’t acknowledge we’ve gone downhill. Whether this resulted from today’s deficit of talent or today’s deficit of leadership is still up in the air.
Those guys were appreciated for what they brought to the table too. That was missing the moment they walked out of the door. Then no one wanted to do post-game interviews.
I think we could use them. I’m sure one can find a team that has those kind of “strong, silent” types but I can’t measure how effective they are overall. You’re right, Kevin, we need players that will call people out when needed. I guess I’m not convinced that that dude is present on this team unless they’re hidden in the minors somewhere. We can get those types but I doubt the Wilpons are even looking for them—they should.
again, teams do not need leaders. they need guys who can hit and pitch. they can all hate each other and want the team to lose and it doesnt matter. the point is to score runs and prevent the other team from scoring runs. they are not trying to motivate each other to storm a enemy machine gun. leadership and clubhouse nonsense is not relevant. if you think it is, you end up signing no-talent assclowns to the team instead of actually talented players.
I get you, Martin. I don’t think anyone wants that. Most of the examples that I used in the posts were guys that were vocal but still produce at the plate. I didn’t use any pitchers in the example but I’m sure there are some out there—none came to mind.
Ideally, it’d be good to have both. Thank you, Sir.
you dont need both. you need good players. thats it. leadership is not relevant. you dont need guys that are vocal any more than you need guys that are chinese or good guitarists. again, thinking this way is what gets teams into trouble. its why players like cora get AB and that ruins teams.
What was the motto of the early 70′s A’s? “25 guys, 25 cabs?” Yet they three-peated. Wright and Reyes and the other 23 guys can go into a back alley every night and MMA each other into oblivion, but if they come out the next day and produce, that’s all that matters.
Not just leadership, but there is definitely value in a team fighting back, overcoming adversity, and having a never-say-die attitude.
Best example:
1986 Mets, Game 6 of the WS, 9th inning, down 2 runs, 2 outs, numerous batters with 2 strikes, each player battles in their at bat. Eventually, Mookie Wilson manages to get his bat on the ball, put the ball in play, error by Buckner, Mets win an epic game, and win the WS in Game 7. What if Mookie decided to take that pitch instead?
2006 Mets, Game 7, 9th inning, 2 out, Beltran up with a chance to win it, 2 strikes, keeps his bat on his shoulder, takes strike 3, Mets eliminated, Mets collapse the next 2 years. What if Beltran had protected the plate? We’ll never know.
That sums up this “core” versus the WS winning “core”.
Is Beltran a better hitter than Mookie Wilson? Hell yes, by all measures, but Wilson fought to protect the plate, Beltran passively took strike 3. Wilson is a Met WS hero, Beltran is a goat.
That’s an example of desire overcoming talent.
Lord, hogwash & not leadership related unless u call finding the right lucky seat to finish his brew in by “C” Mex, meaningful leadership back in game 6, by his own admission, he went into that clubhouse ‘defeated’/distraught/unbelieving!
LordCharles- That has to be the DUMBEST example I have ever seen. Mookie is a winner because the BUM the Red Sox had on the mound threw a wild pitch. Carlos Beltran was facing a STUD pitcher who he had not seen much of in his career. To put things into perspective, the Cards won the World Series on a called strike 3 called. Same breaking ball Beltran was frozen on.
You gotta love when fans try to talk about baseball through their heart instead of actual baseball experience. When Carlos was in the hole 0-2 I was terrified, because I knew the position he was in. 0-2 counts leave you little room to operate. You can’t look breaking ball, because then you have no chance @ the fastball if it’s thrown. You will be frozen stiff. Quite honestly, an experienced hitter would not expect a strike, much less a vicious breaking ball over the heart of the plate. Not batter would have swung @ that pitch. As soon as it was released, Beltran has a millisecond to judge whether it was a fastball up @ his eyes or if it was a breaking ball. That doesn’t give you ANY reaction time. Beltran thought fastball waste pitch like everyone else would have.
If Wainwright had been pitching for the Red Sox in 1986, Mookie goes down on 3 pitches as well. Get a grip, please.
This is the truest thing you have ever written Jimmy. Great cureball pitcher up 0-2. 99% of the time it’s in the dirt. One play never costs you the series anyway and if there was one play that did cost that series it was Shawn Greene not catching Spezio’s “triple” in game 2 or Valentin swinging at the first pitch with the bases loaded or some other play. The fact is if you leave it up to the last at bat your only going to successful 30% of the time at best.
it was a passed ball. Went off Gedman’s glove. He didn’t even move.
nice article….. I think the thing with Wright is that people like Met announcer and SNY commentators and sport beat writers talked him up as the leader of the future and he didn’t eveolve on his own as the leader. There are lots of ways to lead your peers, but being designated before your time isn’t one of them.
That’s also why Bayonne’s premise in the beginning of these posts outs him. A manager or coach is like a boss. They are not leaders as they have control over you. They can bench you in sport and they can fire you in business. Leaders? Nope….
Harry, I agree…The Mets tend to overhype our players.
Wright is a very good hitter, which is fine. He’s not a first ballot HOFer, he’s not a leader, and he’s not a good fielder.
The way the Mets promoted him, and the way some over-zealous fans talk, he’s the greatest baseball player of all time.
If Wright could play on a small market team, or a team with other spotlight grabbing stars, he’d play much better. He can’t carry the NY Mets on his own.
I agree with Bayonn.
The manager sets the tone for the team.
I want a manager who loves to take the arrows himself.
BV likes to take credit but took blame also.
Jerry likes to explain things but rarely takes the hits himself. They roll off him.
Willie was very defensive .
BTW, What happen to the new leadership of Wright’s card playing group ?
Players know who is the leader.
The Press and the fans love to create it in their likeness.
That’s all right if you have a guy like Soccia who tells everyone how it’s gonna be and that’s the way it is AND really knows what he’s doing AND isn’t undermined by his own organization. But a lot of these types make it all about them. Just wait and see. If Backman gets the job it all going to be about Wallyball and eventually that wears thin. The most important thing for a manager to do is establish great communication with the most unselfish and mature TWO way player on the team. This team has that guy, weather or not the manager chooses to trust him and communicate with him will ultimately determine if the team reaches it’s full potential. Reyes is too flighty and Wright is too selfish and both are too streaky. The Media goes to Wright because he always makes himself available. Good he can handle that part while Angel Pagan gets everyone going in the same direction. Get him to buy in on what the new Manager is bringing and he’ll lead.
Can you clarify the “Wright is too selfish” comment?
Not shortening up on his swing when the situation calls for it. ie runner on 2B 2 out. Not protecting the plate with two strikes so either he or the next batter get a better chance of a pitch they can do something with. Taking the approach that he did for long stretches this year of standing too far from the plate and settling only for poorly located fastballs and hanging breaking pitches and then not moving closer and just flailing away at good breaking pitches away with 2 strikes. Many players his age do that too, it’s a product of having grown up watching baseball during the steroid era but it reeks of compiling stats as oppossed to winning games. Maybe it stands out a bit more because your probably getting a better pitcher in situations at the end of close games and your definitly getting the pitchers best out pitch with runner on 2B 2 out but he’s too good and too young to be looking to do damage on only mistakes and that approach has caused him to hit less line drives than ever before because it’s hard to hit a line drive off the end of the bat.
Well you call it selfish, I call it having a useless coach.
His final numbers are good, can you imagine if someone that knew what they were doing actually got to him and helped fix these issues.
That is exactly how I feel. Exactly. Now it’s up to the player too to want to make those adjustments but I see so many things on the ML team that make me wonder what the hell Johnson is doing. And even worse the guys coming up are the same. Every hitter is operating independantly of every other hitter. There is no cohesion in the line up. And obviously there is no shame in striking out. Maybe it was too harsh a word but I used it because the comment was more about leadership than a hitting comment. Ultimatly, it’s a mindset at the plate just like in the field (where am I going with a hard hit/soft roller/line drive/ect) only it changes with every pitch. Wright doesn’t look to me like he’s changing with the situation.
IF Wright sacrificed his # for the # of Ws, We wouldn’t be talking about his leadershing now.
No coach can change his approach .
He is not a rookie, he’s been playing baseball forever.
Either he is stupid or selfish, Maybe both.
Even for a weekend golfer, each situation calls for a different shot.
It was shocking for me to watch Wright doing exactly the same approach in so many different situations.
Just a flyball would’ve scored a tying run. Strike out
Either a flyball or a gound ball would’ve scored a tying run. Strike out.
Players know what is going on.
What it matters in BB is W, not the indiviisual #
Couldn’t agree more. One of the hardest parts of constructing a roster must be the effect that the veterans have on the younger players. If their priorities are not winning and their not unifying the clubhouse or playing their best D the rookies fall into line. Playing for your #’s in lost seasons is one way to stay motivated but leads to bad habits. Reyes and Wright need to be backed up by a guy or guys that can put them on the bench 12 times a year.
T, did u realize u may have struck a golden solution to the typical Sept malaise, very often caused by the exhaustion apparent on the left side of our infield by too few reg off days? And as to your earlier observation attributing Wright’s press availability for his reg interviews. Did u ever consider his speaking good, old American English as the true cause. I’;ve often “blamed” the press for this “NO LEADERSHIP” bilge as most often their choices consistantly have gravitated to those interviews that are much easier for them to comprehend by seeking out LoDuca,Wagner,Wright,Bay, Francouer before talking to Reyes,Beltran,Delgado, Rodriguez, Santana even at times when the preferred English speaking interviewee never appeared in the subject game(Wagner) some try to castigate the Hispanic players by claiming they don’t stick around. Ever wonder, why should they if no one ever asks them for interviews. Unless there is a specific play or AB that involves Reyes or Castillo, we never hear/read their views on the state of affairs in the clubhouse. Why not? I wonder how the Hispanic speaking press views our clubhouse?
1225, it would seem to me u have yet to come to terms withthe simple fact that Baseball more than any other pro endeavor is based upon failures. You can not judge ANY PLAYER by individual ABs; but only by a complete body of work. Thus the established Baseball axiom of “YOU’RE NEVER AS GOOD AS YOU LOOK WHEN WINNING AND NEVER AS BAD AS YOU LOOK WHEN LOSING.” 1225, if you’re a typical fan u catch a game when u can, as someone on the D/L in life, I get to see more games than most, especially since swithing to DIRECT-TV my oportunities to see out of town, not broadcast in NY games exists from my home in distant NC. baseball, as you know is simpoly a difficult career where the very,very best are expected to fail 70% of their attempts, those successes can ONLY be reflected adequately over a large scope of attempts since the failures may come as 7 in a row before 3 successes are sequentially achieved. only by considering hundreds of attempts does the picture start to take on meaningful form. The ability of any coach to effect the results is extremely limited & mostly negligable since an miniscule improvement by 1 try per 10 moves that player amongst the baseball gods (.400 hitter)
In my opinion, the main purpose for a coach is basicly to help minimize the droughts of failure not improve the overall outcome beyond reason, otherwise some team would have fielded a total lineup of .300 hitters. Coaches for the most part ensure sanity & coping mechanisms for repeated failures. Does any coach become dumber from yr to yr? Not unless struck on the head to cause amnesia; if that’s true why do some player’s success rates fluctuate yr/yr?
Bobby V was quick to air his gripes out in the public. Even over payment disputes on radio shows. Always took the bait and sometimes tried to initiate the airing of dirty laundry. One time he said about his fellow managers something to the effect of some of these guys would be afraid to be on a panel with me discussing baseball. Now that’s probably true but why would you say that? Bobby V was the only manager that could have gotten a team with the kind of outfield we had to the Series and I wouldn’t be threatening a mass revolt if he came back but he was pretty thin skinned and constantly looking for acknowledgment of his baseball acumen.
Tagee,
I know.
BV was thin skinned.
When was it?
The Mets were losing so much in September that they were in danger of a monumental collapse, and he said if the team didn’t make the playoff they can fire him.
It took the pressure off the players.
I wonder if it would have worked in 2007 and 2008.
Maybe 2007.
I don’t think Willie and Manuel had balls to do it.
And he knew how to get the most out of the players
Benny Ag, Benitez,…..
And he took Benny Ag and Matt Franco with him to Japan and Benny had a great career in Japan.
(I saw some of the games they played in Asia on TV and they were very good and seeing BV with them made me very sentimental.)
It says something about BV.
I’ve been reading 18-19 century English sea captain stories .
A captain lost his ship , was land locked for a while and when he was afloated again he got old crews back for his new ship. The crews will go anywhere and will do anything for him. Very childish stories, but BB is children’s game, so..
Bobby let it out about Phillips (needing a lefty in the pen) and Wallace (not always on the same page) Bobby is a very good manager, might even be a very good GM, I don’t know. He does inspire loyalty in some but animosity in others. But really where was Benny or Matt going to go if they wanted to continue to play? Bobby needs to be in charge and that can lead to publically airing it out and any distraction is bad for a team. Bobby’s a good decent man but with Jeff involving himself and ultimately having no knowledge of the game it’s just a matter of time before the distractions hit the back page, reporters start swarming, leaks appear and the Mets become a laughing stock yet again.
T, Baseball in my lifetime(60yrs) has rarely seen a bigger self-promoter than BobbyV. his mentor, Lasorda, practiced similar bombastic impromptus; but his glorified topic unrelentingly involved DODGER BLUE HERITAGE. Valentine has ALWAYS considered himself the smaertest baseball mind in any room, even while visiting Cooperstown. That’s actually pretty remarkable for a manager to never lead his team to finishing a regular season in first place, excl 2000 when he acquired First in NL position via the WILDCARD.There is somrting to be said for being spurned by such acconmplished opposing mngrs as Dusty Baker & Tony LaRussa & it isn’t pretty or nice. in fact I wouldn’t be suprised if he had that disguise handy from his last Cooperstown visit,LMAO!
’62, You right about Bobby V. It’s not enough for him to just do a good job, he needs everybody to know it. Know it was his doing. Know how smart HE is. Other successful people don’t need that. Their happy if once in a while somebody else acknowledges the obvious. Bobby Cox doesn’t have to point it out for everyone. Bobby V would be best suited for the Royals. He’d have them playing smart baseball, maximizing their chances and overachieving. He might even keep ‘em on the periphery of the pennant race/wild card until the end of August and ultimately, he would be happiest there because He’d get all the praise.
T, I just finished sending what I consider to be my Obituary of the Minaya era in a note to my close Metfan freiends & my two children(aged 40 & 18) I’d like to share it with you & others here on my favotrite blog site as it was attached to an Andy Martino article about anticipated Monday announcement of mngt changes, here it is:
Mets Firing Omar Minaya and Jerry Manuel On Monday? IF THIS ARTICLE IS ACCURATE, THE NEW SLOGAN MAY BE “WAIT TILL 2012″ AND NOT THE USUAL “NEXT YEAR” I SUSPECT ALL 3 EXPIRING CONTRACTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO EXPIRE IN DEPARTING F/A, BELTRAN, ALONE, IS THE MOST LIKELY TO LAND ELSEWHERE GARNERING AN ADDITIONAL FIRST ROUND PICK IN COMPENSATION, THE OTHER TWO WILL LIKELY BE NET LOSSES! DESPITE THE “NEW FACES” REGIMEN. ONCE MORE IN 2011, WE’RE LIKELY TO COMPETE WITH 23 USEFUL PLAYERS INSTEAD OF THE 25 ALLOWED. PEREZ WILL REMAIN THE ACTIVE PARIAH HE HAS BEEN AS WILL CASTILLO, THE INVISIBLE PLAYER. FORTUNATELY NEITHER HOLD MUCH SWAY IN THE CLUBHOUSE SO THE PROBABILITY OF POISONING THE TEAM WELL IS VERY REMOTE.
IT WON’T SHOCK ME IF JEFF CHOOSES TO TRY & REPLICATE HIS PAST MOST POWERFUL SCENERIOS BY ANNOUNCING THE NEW HEAD OF BASEBALL OPERATIONS ALONGSIDE OMAR WILL BE JOHN RICCO, A NEAR PERFECT DUQUETTE/PHILLIPS CLONE MY PREDICTION IS THIS, THE ERA OF MEANINGFUL ANTICIPATION IS OVER AFTER JUST 6 YRS, 2005-2010 AND A NEW ERA REFLECTING UPON THE GRANT TOMB DAYS OF THE LATE 70s & EARLY 80s WILL HAVE COMMENCED WITH MONDAY’S PRONOUNCEMENTS. GOD BLESS MET FANS, EVERYWHERE. ON THE BRIGHT SIDE, THIS TEAM’S DAYS OF DISAPPOINTING RESULTS ARE NEARING A CLOSE. THE MARLINS,NATIONALS,ROYALS,PIRATES,MARINERS RARELY DISAPPOINT EXPECTATIONS THAT ARE USUALLY SO LOW AS ANY MODICUM OF PLAY OVER .500 IS VIEWED AS VICTORIOUS. UNLIKE PAST DISILLUSIONED PERIODS THAT EVENTUALLY LED TO PHOENIX TYPE SEASONS DUE TO THE EVENTUAL MATURATION OF THE TALENT GATHERED/COLLECTED THROUGH YRS OF EARLY FIRST ROUND PICKINGS. THIS OWNERSHIP HAS SHOWN SUCH DISDAIN FOR THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AS TO JEOPARDIZE THAT GAMEPLAN FOR THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE(To be read to a background of “TAPS”)
Appreciate it ’62, I too feel the Grant Tomb years are upon us. I do wonder if attendance could ever go so low that combined with other developments would give the Wilpon’s cause to consider selling? I mean, they have to be losing money hand over fist right? Even begging the fans to buy their tickets from Mets.com instead of Stub Hub. Advertising scratch tickets with the Met logo to Mets.com subscribers, and instead of selling advertising on SNY giving it to charity (NY smokers quit line) for the tax write off. Or maybe a well connected politician is shipping tax dollars here. Overall I have a real feeling of sadness. I thought Omar was the right guy in the right place at the right time and I thought he was going to be allowed to do it the right way. The way that would withstand time. The sustainable way. I’ve heard Omar say you have to do it in NY with big stars but I just don’t think he meant only. I think that was Jeff. I think the money ran out.
T, don’t ever forget the $400M naming nestegg in Fred’s backpocket! That compensates for a lot of empty seats.
Hey Mookie was great when he danced out of the way of that pitch from the pitcher and his ground ball was butchered by a hobbling 1b, but yeah he sure put the wood to be Mr. Clutch over Beltran, WHAT!
Hey I am and was a big Mookie fan and was mad over the reasons he hurt his shoulder and could not throw like he could late in his career but he ducked an inside wild pitch and hit a ground ball that if caught we go to xtra innings so please lets get the facts straight.
Lets Go Mets.
tagee says:
October 1, 2010 at 4:42 pm But ’62, Your sidestepping a very important issue. An issue that really makes my point about having young, very talented position players. The Phillies went to the World Series. Twice. And they might go back there again this year. And even if they don’t, they still won it all TWO years ago. We won it all TWENTY FOUR years ago. That’s a critical distinction. Try and spin that one. Yeah, the Phils are starting to show some age, might have made a couple of bad moves also. (Ibanez, too many years for Howard) Can they sustain it? That’s a different problem. THAT’S THE PROBLEM WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE.
T, your comment above was unrepliable; but deserved my attention as I am sidestepping nothing. 24 years is certainly too long a period of time; but certainly not caused by any current employees. There are basicly 4 acceptable means a franchise can use to reach the Holy Grail(WS title) they are:
A) draft wqell and develop your own players much as both Minn & Atl has practiced(one WS title in those 24 yrs)
B) spend freely & often on stuf best available free agents as practiced by NYY
C) use Plan A products to secure established vets as needed to improve as mostly followed by PHL.
D) combine all of the above.
Over those 24 years the men at the helm of SS. METS have been Frank Cashen(5Y), Al Harazin(2Y), Joe McIlvane(4Y),Steve Phillips(7Y),Jim Duquette(.5Y), Omar Minaya(6Y) the biggest damage to eliminating any PLAN A
sorry I got timed out as I was about to say; the biggest damage to eliminating any PLAN A option consideration since 1997 was Steve Phillips’ total dismissal of the drafting system as inconsequential.
The Phillies & Braves, to my recollection have truly only signed one compensatable with draft pick free agent and that was Derrick Lowe by Atlanta in ’08. previous to that, I believe the Phillies biggest F/A splash occurred just prior to openning their toy chest(Citizens’ Bank Park) in 2002/3 when they inked Jim Thome. Omar was handed the keys to a Fourth place team berift oF prospects & told to win by ownership & fans. with no potential for a PLAN A OR C THAT BASICLY LEFT ONLY ONE VIABLE OPTION, PLAN ‘B’ & SINCE IT WAS THE WILPONS, THE BUDGET PROVIDED WAS INADEQUATE AFTER 2006.
it should also be noted that other teams that had ignored their milb systems or managhed them poorly typically tend to restock by selling off veteran contracts for pkgs of valued prospects. Over priced contracts being dispatched in this manner typically are accompanied by a cash offset stipend accompanying the vet as a means of increasing the value or number of the prospects returned. In 2004 this dispatching of vets was ordered by Ownership to be performed by Duquette; however under specific & publicized orders from Jeff, absolutely NO CASH OFFSET was to be included while dispersing the talents/contracts of:
ALOMAR
BENITEZ
BURNITZ
VENTURA
ZEILE
et al.
instead of a bevy of prospects to groom, we received amanagerie of questionable suspects & lame milbers as the ONLY borderline prospect(Ring) was recieeved from CHISOX; but only if we also accepted Almonte, hindered by current injury yto his pitching arm.
T, certainly it’s been 24 yrs & aside from us fans the only continuity is WILPON.
Add to that potporri of ineptitude the policy of not oferring arbitration to departing F/A players to garner add’tl picks and refusing to overstep draft slot guidelines.
It’s likely suprising we had the healthy runs we did while our GM was so hamstrung.
’62, Glad I checked back for your reply. I have said it over and over again. The wilpon’s have tried the same approach only to be met with heartbreak each and every year. Maybe there’s a tax angle. Maybe they can take depreciation on these oft injured dinasaurs that they sign. Maybe its a con game. Sign the big free agent, sell a lot of tickets. let him get hurt and collect his salary from insurance. I know, It’s the baseball version of a ponzi scheme. Baseball is the ultimate game of “if the fastball’s getting banged all over the park…” The solution to this is SCOUT, DRAFT, SIGN and DEVELOP (with patience) and hire competent people to do so. Get creative. Pick up draft choices when you can, offer arb. Have some balls. Draft choices aren’t sure things? Have you taken a look at our free agents performance lately? For ONE Ollie we could have had FIFTEEN prospects. Lets try the curve or change for a while.
T, doesn’t your heard ache too much drom hitting your head against the OWNERSHIUP WALL too frequently?
it’s truly amazing the ZIG-ZAG methodology OWNERSHIP(JEFF) has chosen, truly reminicient of the same path blazoned by the HEADLESS CHICKEN IN THE BARNYARD.
OBFISCATION is the chosen camoflauge that hides the perpertrator of futility in Flushing.
I recently opined a scenerio of what I belive has happened in Flushing in contrast to assumed Wilpon buttboy Lupica’s account in today’s paper. let me share(please excuse the CAPSLOCK I use for private missives;
Mets must replace Omar Minaya with the right general manager if they want to change team’s culture
OK, IN MY OPINION OF THESE MOST PUBLICIZED,QUALIFIED ALTERNATIVES, MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE HART, TO BE THE NEW “ARCITECT” ala CASHEN.
GM POSSIBILITIES JOHN HART The former Cleveland and Texas GM is currently an adviser with the Rangers and an MLB Network analyst. At 62 years old, he would bring the gravitas and experience that the ownership appears to be seeking. SANDY ALDERSON Alderson, 63, would also bring credibility from his tenure as GM of the Oakland Athletics. He has also served as an executive with the San Diego Padres, and is currently overseeing MLB’s efforts to address issues in the Dominican Republic.
JOSH BYRNES A very different choice than Hart and Alderson, the 40-year-old Byrnes was recently fired as GM of the Arizona Diamondbacks. A respected young executive known for interests in both sabermetrics and traditional scouting.
JON DANIELS At 33, he’s the youngest GM in baseball. The Queens native runs Texas, and while he reportedly has an out clause in his contract, it is not known if he would leave his current job.
-Andy Martino; Photo by Muncy for News
MY REATIONALE FOR CHOOSING JOHN HART, SIMPLY IS HIS CREDENTIALS GIVE HIM THE STRENGTH OF SECURITY TO NOT BUCKLE UNDER JEFF WHEN JEFF GETS INTO ONE OF HIS HISSY FIT, PETUANT TANTRUMS aka FEELS “TOO FULL OF HIMSELF” @ 62 HART SEEMS LIKE A MAN FRED WOULD TRUST WITH THE FAMILY “SECRET” THAT THE “VILLAGE IDIOT” SON IS RUNNING A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR ASSET, AS WELL AS SOMEONE FRED CAN IDENTIFY WITH SOMEONE WHO’S MATURITY & EXPERIENCE HE CAN TRUST, PERHAPS FRED WILL BE MORE COMFORTABLE IN REINING IN HIS PRODIGY. PERHAPS, THE LOCO ATMOSPHERE OF DISTRUST FRED ESTABLISHED BY HAVING HIS SON WATCH HIS GM CLOSELY WHILE INSTRUCTING HIS GM TO BE SURE TO CALL HIM IF HIS SON’S “TOO FAR OVER HIS HEAD” OR IS IN DANGER OF SEVERLY HURTING THE FRANCHISE BY ILL CONCEIVED PLANS TO HELP IT. I THINK LUPICA HAS IT ALL WRONG, IN AS MUCH AS ’06 WASN’T THE CAUSE FOR THE FRANCHISE’S STUMBLES, ’07 WAS. IT WAS ONLY AFTER THE WILLIE JOB RIFT & HANGING OMAR OUT ON A LINE IN A NOOSE OVER DISMISSAL MECHANICS ORCHESTRATED BY JEFF AS THE FINAL “GOTCHA’ OVER OMAR. SINCE THE CLOSING OF THE ’07 SEASON, JEFF STATED, WILLIE & OMAR SHOULD PAY FOR THE COLLAPSE WITH THEIR JOBS, TO THAT END HE WANTED WILLIE’S SCALP AS TOTALLY WITHIN HIS PURVUE; BUT OMAR’S DISMISSAL NEEDED FRED’S APROVAL. OMAR SOUGHT FRED’S SHIELD TO PROTECT WILLIE FROM JEFF, THE POWER WAR CONTINUED THROUGHOUT THE SEASON WITH EACH SIDE DROPPING HINTS IN THE PRESS. OMAR HAS THE EDGE AS THERE’S NOTHING FRED LIKES MORE THAN EXTERNAL PEACE & LACK OF NOTORIETY, UNTIL WILLIE BECAME TOO NERVOUS BEHIND OMAR & IN RESPONSE TO THE JEFF JOB THREATENING BARBS, WILLIE GAVE HIS DEADLY “RACIAL BIAS” INTERVIEW TO THE NEWARK STAR-LEDGER IN A BAR DISCUSSION ‘ON-THE-RECORD’, THERE WENT FRED’S MIRAGE OF CALM SERENITY, JEFF POUNCED PRIVATELY, AS ONLY A SON CAN, WHILE OMAR WAS LEFT WITH WAITING FOR A DECENT HOUR TO CONTACT OVER A BUSINESS ISSUE, WILLIE’S FATE WAS SEALED BY JEFF, MOST LIKELY BEFORE OMAR EVAN GOT A CHANCE TO GET AN EXPAINATION & APOLOGY FROM WILLIE TO PASS ONTO FRED, THEN STARTED THE THEATRICS OF WILLIE’S PRIVATE APOLOGETIC POST INTERVIEW MEETING WITH “THE WILPONS”, JEFF BIDED HIS TIME BITING HIS LIPS WHILE THE TEXAS INTERLEAGUE SERIES CONTINUED @ SHEA, JEFF’S FINAL “GOTCHA” WAS IN PLAY AS HE WAITED FOR THE TEAM TO GET AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE(LA) BEFORE COMMUNICATING “THE FAMILY DECISION” TO FIRE WILLIE ‘POST HASTE’ FORCING OMAR TO EITHER COMMUNICATE THE DISMISSAL ELECTRONICALLY, OR TELEPHONICALLY OR PROPERLY “IN PERSON” GETTING OMAR ON A R/T CROSSCOUNTRY FLIGHT WITHOUT AN OVERNIGHT; BUT IMMEDIATE RETURN, MEANWHILE, OMAR CONTACTED FRED TO CONFIRM; HEARING HE’D LOST THE INBATTLE OVER WILLIE, OMAR CHOSE HIS FINAL “GOTCHA” BY GETTING FRED’S APPROVAL TO EXTRACT A FINAL POUND OF FLESH IN CONSOLATION, THE SIMULTANEOUS DISMISSAL OF CHIEF JEFF CLUBHOUSE SPY, JEFF’S EMPLOYEE, RICK PETERSON, JEF LIKELY WAS OUTRAGED VOWING TO ‘GET EVEN” WITH HIS PERCEIVED & ACTUAL LOWER LEVELED EMPLOYEE, OMAR. FROM THAT POINT FURTHER, EVERY JEFF ACTION WAS AIMED AT THE GOAL OF AN OMAR DISMISSAL(THE GM WAS “DEADMAN WALKING”).SENSING SUCH OMAR SOUGHT FURTHER PROTECTION FROM FRED, THROUGH AN EARLY CONTRACT EXTENSION OF 3Y WITH 1 STILL REMAING ON HIS CURRENT CONTRACT. SUPERCEDING JEFF’S OBVIOUS OBJECTIONS, FRED CONCURRED TO THE EXTENSION, LIKELY INFURIATING JEFF AT THIS POSTPONEMENT, JEFF KEPT UP THE PRESSURE, EVEN SACRIFICING ONE OF HIS PAWNS, BERNAZARD, TO WHOM HE PROMUISED OMAR’S TITLE, SHOULD TONY PROVIDE JEFF WITH THE AMMO TO DECAPITATE OMAR FROM HIS JOB. FOR GROUNDS THAT WOULD NEGATE THE CONTRACT EXTENSION. JEFF HAD ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION OF FURTHERING HIS PROFESSIONAL MISERY IN DEALING WITH OMAR; SO, IN MY OPINION, HE CHOSE THE LOWEST POINT IN OMAR’S GM TENURE, THE ’09/’10 OFFSEASON TO DRAMATICLY SLASH PAYROLL AS A MEANS OF PREVENTING OMAR FROM RELOADING PROPERLY FOR THE 2010 CAMPAIGN. THUS OMAR WAS FORCED TO REPLENISH WITH OBVIOUS & CERTAIN ACTUAL “HOLES” @ 1B,C,LF,SP,SETUP ONLY GETTING APPROX 20M/YR TO COMPLETE THE TASK. IT’S REPORTED OMAR’S TOP PICK FOR LF WAS HOLLIDAY WHICH JEFF DENIED AS TOO EXPENSIVE LONG TERM FORCING OMAR TO CHOOSE THE ONLY OTHER AVAILABLE OOPTION, BAY, EATING 6.5 OF HIS 20M IN A CREATIVELY BACKLOADED CONTRACT. WITH APPROX 14M STILL IN HIS POCKET OMAR CHOSE TO FILL HIS HOLES CREATIVELY:
1B – JACOBS .4M LATER REPLACED BY DAVIS FOR SAME $ VALUE
C- BARAJAS, .5M AS #1 & BLANCO, .75M AS #2
LF. BAY 6.5M
SP: DICKEY, .4M, TAKAHASHI, 1M
SETUP: ESCOBAR @ 1M, 60 DAY D/L ALL SEASON, NEVER FILLED SPOT EFFECTIVELY
THERE WERE A MYRIAD OF CONTRACTUAL SALARY INCREASES THAT ATE MOST OF THE REMAINING ALLOWANCE OF 20M.
WHILE MOST OF MY CHRONOLOGY IS CERTAINLY SPECULATION BASED UPON FACTUAL REPORTS & SURMISING FROM THOSE AS WELL AS XTRAPOLATION. I CERTAINLTY BELIEVE THIS ACCOUNT IS THE ONLY LOGICAL SCENERIO WITHOUT DEFIANCE OF COMMON SENSE. OTHER CAUSATIONS MAY EXIST; BUT MOST CAUSE THE DISCREDITING OF FACTS LIKE OMAR IS AN IDIOT OR OMAR IS INCOMPETANT. THOSE CONCLUSIVE DEDUCTIONS WOULD, IN MY OPINION, RENDER THOSE COMPETITIVE CGRONOLOGIES UNBELIEVABLE.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/10/03/2010-10-03_mets_must_replace_omar_minaya_with_the_right_general_manager_if_they_want_to_cha.html#ixzz11IdnTb8D
T, this was unrespondible; but soooo deserving a response:
tagee says:
October 1, 2010 at 4:14 pm ’62, Alou, Delgado, Bay, Franco, Castillo, Sheffield, Wagner, Desens, GMJ, Jacobs, Cora, Tatis, Blanco, Barajas, Catalanoto, Valentin, Shawn Green, Pedro, El Duque, Livan, Lima, Valentin, Easley. Each of these guys individually can be defended I guess but collectively a lot of the emphasis was placed on way too old and no where’s near enough was placed on solutions going beyond THIS YEAR. in addition many of these are/were one dimensional. Some cost a fortune. Some have cost us in the future, some both. Most of all they were counted on to defy time and no one can do that (without steroids) as Omar himself will tell you right now. And I really would like you to tell me in exactly which way is Saul Katz qualified to be President of a ML Baseball team? Did he play the game? Where? How much of his career has he spent scouting young prospects? Who has he signed? Would you say his expertise is more on the offensive side or the defensive side of the game? Where does he stand on pitching? Does he Like the young power pitcher, older breaking ball pitcher or a combination? What is his overall philosophy on baseball? Does he like small ball, the sac bunt and the hit and run or is he a power guy?
MY RESPONSE IS THIS, YOUR RENDITION OF PLAYERS STRIKES ME AS SIMILAR TO ONE OF THOSE PRIMARY SCOOL QUESTIONS ON IDENTIFYING RELATIONSHIPS AS IN “CHOOSE THE ONE THAT DOESN’T BELONG”
FOT THAT, MY ANSWER IS SIMPLY PEDRO MARTINEZ WHO’S CONTRACT SERVED AS NOTICE TO FANS, THAT A NEW SHERIFF WITH A NEW AGENDA WAS IN TOWN…
TAKE OUT PEDRO, AND U LOSE YOUR “EXPENSIVE” ARGUEMENT. EACH & EVERY ONE OF YOUR ‘CULPRITS/USUAL SUSPECTS” WERE AQUIRED FOR RELATIVLY REASONABLE VALUE FOR SPECIFIC CONTRIBUTORY ROLES. AS IN SUPPORTING CAST OF AN ‘A’ MOVIE NOT AS PREEMINENT STARS IN A ‘B’ FLICK. THINK CLARK GABLE IN “THE MISFITS” AS OPPOSED TO “GONE WITH THE WIND” STORIES NOW LEAKED OF HOLLIDAY BEING OMAR’S PRIMARY LF PREFERENCE BEING DENIED HIM SHOULD CERTAINLY ESTABLISH HIS BEING MICROCONTROLED BY JEFF ON A PLAYER BY PLAYER BASIS SINCE THE END OF ’06 SEASON. IN MANY OF YOUR CITED CASES THE ROLES FILLED WERE NOT AS PRIMARY POSITION HOLDERS; BUT AS BACKDROP BENCHERS & PH OPTIONS. ROLES NOT SUITED FOR THOSE UNDER “PRIME” AGE. IF YOU NEEDED AN OUTFIELDER FOR A CONTENDING YOUNGISH SQUAD OF MOSTLY HISPANIC HERITAGE, MOISES ALOU WAS CERTAINLY A VIABLE OPTION TO BE CONSIDERED FOR 100G. A CONTRIBUTION PARAMETER CLEARLY DEFINED BY MINAYA POST ANNOUNCEMENT IN SUBSEQUENT INTERVIEWS ASKING WHAT CONTRIBUTIONS WERE EXPECTED.