An Optimistic Mets Fan Faces The Hard Truth

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• RonOK April 2, 2010 at 10:15 am

  Realism should not be confused with pessimism. You are being realistic and I agree with you 100%.

  This team is an absolute train wreck and while the ultimate responsibilty falls on the players, a good share of the blame resides with the executives making the decisions to move forward with the players who are putting out such dismal performances.

  This train wreck is a complete team effort — Wilpon, Minaya, Manuel and most of the players.

  Aside from Wright, Reyes, Bay and Santana there is little to get exicted about with this team …. I cannot wait for the transistion to guys like Davis, Meija, FMart, Tejada and Thole ….
  • METS62FAN April 3, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Ron, just this sentence alone, is one we had multiple socalled experts tell us was impossible just last season…”I cannot wait for the transistion to guys like Davis, Meija, FMart, Tejada and Thole ….” Haven’t we been hammered by ecveryone with a keyboard & microphone into believing we’ve only dregs to look forward to; but here u are realiasticly listing potential star after key player of youngsters in key potentuial positions none of which blocked by a core player currently expected to be around to stall the youngster’s progression. BTW are we not leaving hitter friendly conditions for pitcher friendly confines? Does everybody forget the key “TO DO” this camp was throwing strikes, reality should explain way too many were meatballs down the middle to ensure strike call, I don’t anticipate that continuing, I do believe the most effective “under the radar” DECISION WILL TURN OUT TO BE THE ROTATION SHUFFLE. Pelfrey & Perez should flourish as 4 & 5 while Maine & Niese should hold there own & certainly be no worse than their predecessors in 2,3 spots. Perez could certainly benefit ala Trachsel in ’06 where despite an ERA of 5+ he still compiled 15Ws!
    I understand the concerns; but these aren’t written in stone, NEGATIVES; No, I don’t anticipate lightswitch rejuvinations; but better results based on venue/geography change and relativly quick resumtion of full roster status through returns of Reyes,Murphy,Beltran relativly swiftly. Regardless of higher initial temps projected for openning series, the proponderance of our early contests are in Flushing where Citi’s geographicly similatr predecessoer was one of the stingiest HR parks during cool weather further impacting our pitching positivly.
• Ceetar April 2, 2010 at 10:44 am

  Unrealistic.

  How many times do pitchers have a good start after a bad one? is that what you’re asking? When the bad one doesn’t count and the next start is a real start? ALL THE TIME.

  Pelfrey wasn’t even throwing to setup batters last time. he admittedly throw only split fingers one time through the order to work on the pitch. He’s extremely confident with how he’s developed his breaking pitches this spring. He can’t wait for the season to start. (Look up Rich Coutino’s interview with him last week on espn)

  NOTHING counts in spring. it’s not real. It’s psuedo-baseball. it’s non-alcoholic beer. Pelfrey has shown signs of growth, won 10 games on a bad team last year. John Maine is healthy. He was 4-1 with a 2.75 ERA in May last year. So you don’t even have to go back a whole year to find evidence that he can win games for us.

  Oliver Perez is healthy too. 2009 was all injury stats. He’s up and down though, i understand that, and Warthen may be messing with him way too much, but we’ll see how that goes Once the season starts. Historically Perez is at least a .500 pitcher. That includes games on bad Pirates teams and his injured season last year. He’s supposedly in graet shape and has his mechanics in good form. that’s gotta count for something right?

  The numbers in spring are irrelevant. don’t buy into the pessimism that people try to pass off as ‘realism’.
  • Satish Ram April 2, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Exactly what I wished to say, you said it perfectly. Good stuff, Ceetar.

    Look, Danny.
    4th Place finish? Be optimistic again, man. All of them can win games. Pelfrey Niese Maine Perez isn’t a spectacular 2-5, but you have to realize that not just a year ago, The Mets were picked for the WS, and i’m pretty sure if they can stay healthy, they can produce.
  • Bob L April 3, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Listen, i’m a believer, but it defies the odds that all 3 of our Q-MArks can rebound and have great or even solid years. It’s more likely that 1 of the 3 has a good year; i’ll give you Maine is adequate to poor: 7 – 10 wins; Ollie hasn’t got it–either when ‘it counts’ or doesn’t: 4 – 6 wins; Pelfrey might surprise on the upside: 13 – 17 wins.
    What irks me is the FO/ownership did NOT prepare for the likely probabilities of performance of our grand 3 Q-Marks, and add DEPTH to the rotation, like Marquis and/or Garland, adequate, but sturdy/dependable pitchers that have win 12+ games year-in and year-out.
    Not one of our ‘big’ 3 Q-Marks has that kind of consistency in their records. All were coming off of injuries or puzzling years. It’s total incompetence on the part of FO/ownership they went into ST UNPREPARED for the likeliest outcomes: POOR performance with few signs of progress from the 3 Q-Marks.
    Pelfrey finally had a good outing yesterday. Yea! Pelfrey is the one guy with upside; Maine is decent but injury-prone and lasts no more than 5 innings, at best, MOST of the time; Perez is the biggest puzzle i’ve ever encountered; he cannot and should not be counted on for any consistent level of production–whether ‘it counts’ or doesn’t. Period.
• Kev April 2, 2010 at 10:57 am

  Your 2010 New York Mets:

  1. Johan Santana
  2. John Maine
  3. Oliver Perez
  4. Mike Pelfrey
  5. Jon Niese

  LRP – Nelson Figueroa
  MRP – Pedro Feliciano
  MRP – Fernando Nieve
  MRP – Hisanori Takahashi
  SU – Kiko Calero
  SU – Ryota Igarashi
  CP – Francisco Rodriguez

  1. Angel Pagan – CF
  2. Luis Castillo – 2B
  3. David Wright – 3B
  4. Mike Jacobs – 1B
  5. Jason Bay – LF
  6. Jeff Francoeur – RF
  7. Rod Barajas – C
  8. Alex Cora – SS

  Henry Blanco – C
  Gary Matthews Jr. – OF
  Fernando Tatis – Utility
  Chris Carter/Frank Catalanotto – 1B/OF
  Russ Adams/Ruben Tejada – 2B/SS

  ………………………………………………………………………………………………

  DL: AAA: AA:

  Jose Reyes Manny Acosta Ike Davis
  Daniel Murphy Elmer Dessens Jenrry Mejia
  Carlos Beltran R.A. Dickey
  Kelvim Escobar Nick Evans
  Sean Green
  Fernando Martinez
  Pat Misch
  Carlos Muniz
  Bobby Parnell
  Omir Santos
  Josh Thole
• Kev April 2, 2010 at 11:00 am

  I screwed up the DL, AAA, AAA

  DL: Reyes, Murphy, Beltran, Escobar
  AAA: Acosta, Dessens, Dickey, Evans, Green, F-Mart, Misch, Muniz, Parnell, Santos, Thole
  AA: Davis, Mejia
• Barry April 2, 2010 at 11:29 am

  RonOK, you said:

  “Realism should not be confused with pessimism…”

  I agree, but then you said:

  “This team is an absolute train wreck…”

  That is pure, unadulterated pessimism.

  It’s the spring, nothing has been proven yet. Even if the Mets do ultimately play poorly, it doesn’t change the fact that negative predictions during spring training is nothing more than pessimism.
• t agee April 2, 2010 at 11:42 am

  There’s hope, but its for next year. If Mejia can pitch well as a starter in AAA Neise gets a full year in and Pelfrey rights himself and we add one of Beckett, Webb, Lee, Vazquez or Bonderman we could have a decent starting staff next year. Add Tejada at 2B, Davis at 1B, Thole at C and Fern in right and we might be able to sneak past the Phillies, Braves and Marlins and hold off the Nationals. This really wasn’t the year to try to reclaim the NL East anyway but starting next year the Phillies are really going to have to start spending to keep their homegrown players. As long as we look toward the next couple of years and don’t try to sacrifice those years for this one we will be OK. The most important thing now is to identify a future CFer in someone else’s farm system for when Beltran’s deal is up. Pair him with Newenhaus and let the best man win the job. Get Jose signed for 4 more years and get another young catcher to share time with Thole and concentrate on identifying, signing and developing young players like these to keep it going.
• RealMetsFan April 2, 2010 at 11:43 am

  I have to say I am very disappointed in all the cristism towards the Mets before the season even starts. Every time Pelfrey goes out and gives up a ton of hits in a spring training start I believe it to be a good thing. Do you people not understand he is working with a new arsenal of pitches? He needs to know where the pitches he throws are going to get hit and where they are going to be successful, so when he does give up a hit, he knows to avoid that spot. It is a learning process and that is what the spring is all about. It isn’t that the spring is all about it is about learning and then usuing the regualr season to prove you learned from your mistakes. So wait untill they actually do fail to be all critical of them, wait untill they have 3 bad outings to start the regular season. Route for your team and quit your crying. You will enjoy a winning season more that way.
• theonlymaskman April 2, 2010 at 12:09 pm

  The fears that this year’s piching may not cut it in the NL East may prove realistic in the end. But for now, Mets fans can carry hopes of being competitive. We should have a lot more to go by once we have two weeks behind us in the season. For now, the word is hope and at best that hope is not idle. LGM!
• Mark V April 2, 2010 at 12:10 pm

  Well, I have to agree on one thing. Perez and Big Pelf are a joke! I see Maine and Santana as the only decent starters this year. That being said…. Neise is a rookie and will falter as rookies do. I believe he will be up and down with the quality in his starts. We need to put Ollie in the pen and buy a Pitcher if possible??? If not… What about Neive? I haven’t seen to much of him this year. He did very well last year.

  On a positive note, the offence at the plate looks very good. If we could just put together pitchers who could keep us in the game we’d be looking ok. Look at the Phil’s in 08. There starting pitching wasn’t great beyond Hammals. It was ok but not great. The fighting Phils got the job done with there bats more times then not from behind in the 7th on. Can we do that?? Here’s what I see as any hope this year.
  Santana.
  Maine.
  Nieve.
  Niese.
  Pelfrey…….or trade him and pay cash for a # 2 starter.

  Send Perez Home… Eat the lose. Just seeing that joker in the Bullpen would do worse for fan and player moral. I’t would burn me up just to see him!! Out of site out of mind. And don’t tell me there not going to do it because they don’t want to eat the Money..It’s been done plenty before by us and other teams. Trade him and pay the lose to a small market team that will take the risk in working with him.
• Franco April 2, 2010 at 12:23 pm

  Then you NEVER really were an optomistic fan, never did your homework on the history of this team and are giving up BEFORE THE FIRST PITCH HAS BEEN THROWN?

  You want to be like the cool kids and think cynicism is fun. GO AWAY then, there are plenty of teams accepting bandwaon fans.
  • Mark V April 2, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    A little Harsh, but true. I feel we need to explore options. You don’t need to tell me how bad it looks now.
    • Franco April 2, 2010 at 3:16 pm

      Probably right, but I’m so sick of giving up before it starts. I don’t know if they are going to be great, they may suck, but this is the team I picked to get behind a long time ago and they are NOT nearly as horrible as the cool kids think. I believe they’d rather the team be bad so they can say they are right rather then actually having a winning team.
      • Mark April 2, 2010 at 4:27 pm

        Yah, I agree.
  • Shamik April 2, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Really? You’re bringing up the history of this team? What, the history of choking when the going got rough? The history of underachieving in the biggest market and all the advantages therein. Or the history of the few stellar seasons looking more like flukes than any sustained stretch of success?
    • Franco April 2, 2010 at 3:54 pm

      Why are you a fan if you know before the season even starts that it is going to suck – just so you can sit in misery and all the “faithful” can just say the same thing over and and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?
  • jdon April 2, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Just because someone believes his eyes and trusts his brain and sees that this team is going nowhere does not mean he wants to jump on a bandwagon. He is just not comfortable lying to himself. If you like pom poms, that is fine. It is a free country, for now. I will root for them to win. But I am fairly sure they will wind up around .500, barring a trade for someone like Cliff Lee or Matt Cain. And believing that Santana will return to his old self, which, by the way, is not necessarily a given. Some people are just not comfortable crossing their fingers and hoping for success.
    • Franco April 3, 2010 at 8:51 am

      Just because some are cautiously optomistic does not mean they have their pom poms out. Nothing has even started yet and this fan base of “faithful” are giving up before the first pitch and I have problem with that. As I stated before THERE ARE QUESTIONS MARKS no doubt, but to give up now………..thats not a fan imo.
• Russell Zanca April 2, 2010 at 1:08 pm

  Danny,

  The only true problem I see right now is Perez; I have no faith in him.

  While Maine and Pelf stunk in ST, Maine threw some excellent innings. I think he has the stuff to compete. As long as his arm continues to strengthen and he isn’t on the DL, he will be good.

  Pelf has all of us nervous, and I sincerely wanted at least a couple of dominating ST performances from him, but I am not throwing in the towel. If he keeps his mental focus–or gains one!–no reason he cannot return to 2008 semi-greatness. I am hopeful for a great year out of Pelf, though I had my doubts.

  Keep in mind that in ST some pitchers keep experimenting, throwing dubious stuff just to see how hitters handle it; not saying this was exactly what Pelf did, but it’s possible that such experimentation accounts for some of him at his worst. Let’s just see what we get in his first starts when it all counts.

  For all the crap pitching in ST, we still played .500 BB. Naturally, that’s nothing to be too proud of, but… keep it in mind.

  LET’S GO METS!
• Bob L April 2, 2010 at 1:20 pm

  i remain puzzled by ST. i don’t know what a lousy one ,which most of our pitchers experienced, means. The worst of it, i think, is that we ‘anticipated’ solid Spring’s from Maine, Pelfrey, Perez, having being regaled on their rehab efforts / preparation methods for the new season, and they basically stunk it up big time.
  Does ST ‘mean’ anything? i don’t know. It would have been nice for the past 6 – 7 weeks to be filled of some progress, some improvement in mound performance, particularly as ST ebbed.
  We just got consistent putrid performances for the most part from most of the pitching staff, with the 3 Q-Marks stringing together one terrible sequence after another.
  i have no idea what it means, but it sure the heck killed my optimism, and fueled my anger about how the FO/ownership prepared for the season.
  Meanwhile this is my team, good or bad. Let’s go Mets.
• royhobbs7 April 2, 2010 at 1:31 pm

  Let’s see…………..optimism (some quotes, some observations):

  1) “Oh, Murphy is going to hit .300″; no he’s on the DL probably into mid-May.
  2) “Pelfrey is just throwing splitters, so he’ll do better once the bell has rung”. It is not Pelfrey’s splitters that they are hitting over the fences! Were you watching the games? He was unable to keep his sinker down (similar to last year); that’s why they were belting the crap out of him.
  3) “The HRs given up were all wind-blown”; so were the Mets’ HRs.
  4) “The bullpen has loads of depth”. ………….. yeah, but they still haven’t found a set-up man. Valdes as the left-handed specialist and Feliciano the set-up, oy?
  5) “Maybe Maine, Ollie, Pelfrey and Niese will all pitch better once the season starts”? Its more likely that Figueroa and Nieve will be starting by the end of May.
  6) “Reyes will be back by mid April; Beltran and Murphy should be back by early to mid May”; yeah, that’s what they said about most of the so-called walking wounded last year. It is not even April 5th and we have 3 position (starting) players on the DL combined with very shaky-looking starting pitching staff. That does not present as very auspicious.

  So (for those inclined)enjoy the optimism while the Mets are still tied for first (prior to April 5th); unfortunately it won’t last long. BTW, I am not a pessimist; just a realist. The other team I follow fervently in sports, I believe to be a perennial winner each year (i.e., NY Giants). That’s because it is an organization that is realistic (in appraisal of its talent) and well managed by its ownership, on down.

  Optimism is something that arises when hope springs eternal. Yes, there is hope for the Mets. But sad to say it is down the pike and probably not in the cards for 2010.
• Vinny B April 2, 2010 at 1:44 pm

  Look at these ST stats.

  Lincecum 6.94 ERA

  Sabathia 7.23 ERA

  Burnett 5.12 ERA

  Hamels 5.57 ERA

  J Johnson 5.82 ERA

  Verlander 5.84 ERA

  Peavy 6.55 ERA

  Are all those pitchers going to have bad years?
  • Bob L April 2, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Excellent point, but all those guys above are aces or #2 starters and NOT coming off of bad/terrible/injuries. Can we / could we ever have realistically expected ALL our 3 Q-Marks to have good 2010 seasons? i don’t think so, which is why i’m fuming over the FO/ownership’s incompetence.
    • METS62FAN April 4, 2010 at 9:23 am

      Bob, frontoffice incompetance? How vewry myopic of you. you seem to only see winning as the only goal the frontoffice is aiming for. Well, at least our COO, has broader vision than u, he’s designing a scenerio by which he creates such disatisfaction in the stands as to convince his father, to do something totally out of character, fire Omar & eat 66% of his extension, thus publicly admitting his decidion to offer the extension in spite of COO’s objections, was a MISTAKE. Jeff is attempting a front office coup, hoping to re[place Omar with a puppet he can manipulate just as he did Douquette, ostensibly totally taking over the running of the team without answering to anyone until it’s too late. No Omar to stand against his whims, reporting to Daddy Wilpon, the disastrous gambles Jeff’s risking. Loike trading away Kazmir & Winningham for Anna & the Clown(Benson & Zambrano)No credible baseball executive, like John Hart, or anyoner else will be willing to forego thei reputations just to be Shields for the “baseball developmently challernged COO. Ordered, like a Sectet Serviceman to sacrifice himself to protect all things Wilpon. Recall, the evidence of the lastest COO only, decisions involving team personnel, acquiring Benson,Zambrano,Matsui at the cost of Wigginton, Kazmir & “Reyes@SS”
      • theonlymaskman April 4, 2010 at 9:49 am

        Interesting fairytale theory that you eternally propose. Jeff as the skullduggery mad genius plotting away the destruction of the team for the sole purpose of tricking his Daddy into canning his archenemy Omar. Come on now, once and for all, that’s laughable. Jeff is no way going to deliberately put the Mets in the position of having Citi empty this year. That would be his own personal financial destruction. Is Jeff going to willfully bring Daddy’s empire to its knees only for the goal of clearing out Omar? I think NOT! The failures we see are just as Bob L says, incompetence, not some deeper plot to eliminate Omar through destruction of the enterprise.
        • METS62FAN April 5, 2010 at 8:40 am

          Mask, if his thought process was to first destroy Omar, then take his savings from doing so in ’10, reinvesting it and then some for ’11, when it’s more apparent he’s in charge, giving an appearance of resurection at his guidance when the pre-’11 F/A class is so much richer & muchmore talented while considering the final prep of Thole,Davis & F-Mart as additions, & selling the discarding & eating of 12M on ollie as the last of the Omar cleansing. Jeff can envision riding at the head of a Canyon Parade riding a big white horse of heroism. Do you really think he wouldn’t sacrifice one year of attendance to finally prove his worth to his father & exceed what his big brother Michael has ever done? this is a “firytale” that to me rings out with truthfulness all the while he controls much of the PR through SNY & it’s inbreading with the Daily News.
          • theonlymaskman April 5, 2010 at 9:30 am

            Do you really think Jeffie is that smart to pull off a stunt like that? And if they fire Omar, where do they get the associate savings? They will have to honor his contract which means paying him for the next 3 yrs on top of paying for a successor. Still sounds like fairytale reasoning to me.
            • METS62FAN April 6, 2010 at 8:10 am

              Mask, here’she difference in our thinking. While I vehemently disagree with 99.9% of every known Jeff Wilpon thought process, I ‘assume’ he is NOT stupid or unintelligent. Rather I presume, he’s poorly educated in baseball operations. Re. the “Savings” issue, if I were Jeff, I’d offer to save the franchise, the entire GM compensation plan as I would assure, MY BOSS, MY FATHER, I’d be happy to take on the additional responsibilities with no additional compensation. If I can get aaway with it, Voila, I’ve accomplished my ultimate goal! NOW, WATCH ME PULL A RABBIT OUTA MY HAT!
              Personally, I strongly believe Jeff Wilpon is very devious as well as self deluded by his own perceived genius(Napolean Complex?) He is the Fredo of the Wilpon Family & he has a brother Michael overshadowing him!
              • theonlymaskman April 6, 2010 at 9:45 am

                Ok, you have Jeff as the replacement GM while serving pro bono and taking no additional compensation for that work effort. I didn’t understand that tidbit from your prior posts. I guess it’s possible that a warped mind (his, not yours) may think in that direction. With that additonal explanaton, I understand what you were driving toward. It’s warped, but then so is the exalted self opinion of the individual we’re discussing. Of course, Jeff as GM would be the end of the Mets as we know them. I guess, if you’ve made a point, it’s that as bad as things are regarding the GM position on the Mets, it could get still worse. I’ll leave it at that.
  • Shamik April 2, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    exactly. Pelfrey, Maine, and Perez arent in the same stratosphere as those guys.
  • Original Mets Fan April 2, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Are you serious??? I counted 6 cy awards on that list and a couple of second place finishes. Ho dare you compare them to that drivel we cal Pelfrey, Maine and Perez. Perez is by far the worst starting pitcher in all of baseball and has led the league walks per nine innings 3 years in a row. Pelfrey is about the worst sinker-baller I’ve ever seen in my life, giving up more homeruns this spring than any other pitcher in florida and arizona. And as for Maine, he was a throwiin from the lowly Orioles who gave up on him years ago. His average innings per start is 5.1!!!
    • Vinny B April 2, 2010 at 6:16 pm

      I wasn’t comparing them. I was showing that ST stats mean nothing.

      Lincencum’s stats in ST won’t make any differnce on how he will pitch in the regular season and that is the same for our pitchers as well.
      • Bob L April 2, 2010 at 8:07 pm

        ST stats may mean nothing for aces, like the guys you cited above, and Santana, but i will go on record and say they may prove indicative of struggles to come (particularly the bad outings late in ST) for our PP&M boys that were all coming off of injuries and/or BAD years, had allegedly rehabbed, worked out, ruminated on their struggles in 2009, et ctera–only to stink it out in MOST every outing in ST.
        It has many of us, rightfully i believe, very worried and incensed at the lazy and mindless approach to reshaping our rotation OR even adding depth to it (NONE!) that our FO/ownership ‘accomplished’ in the off-season.
        • Ceetar April 2, 2010 at 8:16 pm

          They don’t mean anything to anyone. Pitchers work on things. Even 4th starters that have been guaranteed a job. the games are at different speeds with different defense and random swaps and it’s just not the same feel. It was about health for the Mets pitchers, and they won.

          Go ahead though,..Pelfrey had two EXCELLENT starts this spring. Anyone writing off Pelfrey this year is going to be pleasantly (hopefully pleasantly) surprised.
          • Bob L April 2, 2010 at 10:05 pm

            i hope you’re right, but your confidence is fanciful. The outings by PP&M IN THE PAST 2 outings by each of them, including their vaunted TUNE-UPs THIS WEEK for the SEASON, were abysmal. We’re not concerned with high 5 and high 6 E.R.A.s (of Niese & Santana) and we wouldn’t be concerned with the 7.97, 8.66, and 7.94 E.R.A.s of PP&M, if they were ‘achieved’ with their ‘other’ arms! ST ‘tinkering’ OR impending season-long implosions?
            No one knows now. We sure the hell will know in 2 months.
• Danny Krieger April 2, 2010 at 6:11 pm

  Like I said, I was an optimist all winter long. But after spring training, I just don’t see it happening. Like everyone else, I am hoping I am wrong.

  I think the naysayers have the lead so far. Or maybe they are just more convincing. So many question marks in the pitching. Look at the bright side – they’re all healthy.

  All Mets fans are frustrated – whether you’re an optimist, realist or pessimist. It’s hard to picture this team winning 90 games this year and competing for the wild card.

  Offensively we should be good. Last year it was awful. That should win us more games this year. IF – if only the pitching can come through, we are at a different level.

  But to think that Pelfrey, Maine and Perez can win 40 games this year is total fantasy. Throw Niese in and maybe you’ll total 40 wins. Let’s hope that one of the above, maybe even two step up and have good years. There’s no way we go 4 for 4. I might be a fan of Figueroa but as a #5 starter, not a #3.
  • alex68 April 2, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Well, well, well!!!

    Danny K, welcome to the DARK SIDE!!! The core salutes u!!!
    • Danny Krieger April 3, 2010 at 11:33 pm

      Alex – I don’t like being on your “dark” side. Can you believe we cut Figgy?
      • alex68 April 4, 2010 at 12:24 am

        Danny

        U act surprised as if u didn’t see it coming.. now, compare to sean garbageen then I would’ve rather have figueroa.. and the dark side is nothing bad, just when u rant about the metsdue to a stupid desicion they make.. so, I do belong to the dark side at least once a week..
  • jdon April 2, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Beltran’s knees are problematic. It was written last year that he has no cartilage left–thus the need for microfracture surgery. He is no guarantee over the next few years. Knee bones without cartilage bruise easily. He could be in and out of the lineup for the next two years. Reyes is a question mark. There are a lot of concerns here. Thinking Beltran will right the ship, or Reyes will have a big year and his thyroid will not flare up again—if you are the mets GM you are really just whistling past the graveyard. I would be much happier if they found a place for Ike,and Fernando on the ML roster, and put Mejia in AA to develop as a starter. That team would still win more than the stiffs did last year, and we would not have to throw next year away like we are throwing this one away trying to develop them.
    • Ceetar April 2, 2010 at 7:07 pm

      Fans like this should just turn in their Mets card and not watch.

      Beltran does not need microfracture surgery. He has no pain. He’s had issues with his knees, yes, but there is no guarantee they’re not fine, and that’s part of the reason for the slow rehab, to make sure of that.

      Reyes is 100% healthy and will be back soon. His thyroid was the result of a virus and/or diet and he’s fine. A flare up is not expected, nor common. Ike Davis is likely not ready, and Murphy hopefully won’t be gone that long.
      • jdon April 3, 2010 at 6:47 am

        Kool-Aid, anyone?
        • Juan V April 3, 2010 at 8:53 am

          Piss water anyone?
    • aye April 3, 2010 at 10:43 am

      Nutcase.
  • Franco April 2, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    So its a contest between the naysayers and the few positive fans and the naysayers won out?

    Go become a Phillies fan or Yankees fan you don’t deserve to be a Mets Fan.
    • jdon April 3, 2010 at 6:50 am

      I have been rooting for the mets since 1962. Don’t tell me who to root for. I call it as I see it. I love baseball. I do not like the present met ownership and I do not like this front office. I do not like the results they have produced. Who are you to decide who is a good fan or a bad fan. You are a sheep, plain and simple. Incompetence is acceptable under a mets logo?.
    • Guy on the Wright April 4, 2010 at 12:04 am

      Don’t you just love dummies that tell you to cheer for another team that actually does things right instead of the team you cheer for that makes clueless, boneheaded ones? Seriously man, shut up. You know what Met fans don’t deserve? The half-assing and the bullshitting that the clowns (Manuel, Minaya, Wilpons) give the true fans time and time again. It seems that you’re just fine with mediocrity. The “naysayers” as you put it are the realists that actually make more sense than the “few positive ones” that can’t get their heads out of their asses.
      • Franco April 4, 2010 at 9:38 am

        Do you know what the Mets Players deserve from the “faithful” before the first pitch is even thrown? I little loyalty. We “claim” to be fans, but we give up on the players themselves before the seasons starts, but those of us that are willing to give it a chance are the dummies….

        So why bother then? If you know because you are SO smart that its going to be a disaster then why stick around? You KNOW the other teams are better then………..
• tie dyed April 3, 2010 at 5:32 pm

  I am not too optimistic about this season either–and have not been all winter long.
  However, on the other hand—-

  How did we do in spring training in 69, 73, 86, 00 and 06? I dont know either–and that’s my point.

  I know it’s a cliche but they dont put spring training stats on baseball cards
  • jdon April 3, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    That is true, But I know I am on record as saying this team will finish third this year before ST. I think 80-84 wins in a reasonably healthy season. Less if they all go on the DL of course. It is not positive or negative. It is realistic.
    • Bob L April 4, 2010 at 9:50 am

      i don’t understand why we can’t be both ‘realistic’ and ‘loyal’. Jdon, you seem to have the ‘under’ on the W/L’s; i think we’re a ’500′ +/- team, as is, assuming good health and with the staff we have, 82 +/-. But, i will root all-out for the team and the players. Am i supposed to actually believe though, that the FO/ownership did a good job assembling this team’s pitching staff and bench? Not for a nano second. But LETS GO METS!!!!
      • jdon April 4, 2010 at 1:07 pm

        Then, Bob, we are in complete agreement on this subject. Apparently some of the other posters cannot read. Believing your eyes has nothing to do with how you root. I never question the loyalty of fans.
      • METS62FAN April 5, 2010 at 8:28 am

        Hey, Bob, personally, I’m disappointingly thinking 85-88Ws is our ceiling this yr due to rotation issues. Considering 2 pretty good gambles are that both Perez & Pelfrey were going nowhere regardless of who we added this offseason, meaning of the 5 curerently rotationg onlu Neise or Maine would be surplanted. Does anyone truly believe the replaCING OF EITHER OF THOSE 2 WITH A GARLAND,SHEETS,PINEIRO,WOLF. is a huge difference maker? Personally, I’d evaluate it as a cosmetic change at best!LGM!!!
        • t agee April 5, 2010 at 8:59 am

          I agree w/62. This years free agent pitchers aren’t likely to be any better than what we already have. The only exception maybe Lackey but with shoulder concerns he just isn’t worth it. You have to pick your spots in free agency and next year could bring either Beckett, Webb, Vazquez, Bonderman or Cliff Lee. With way too much money already allocated to one unproductive pitcher the absolute last thing we should have done is repeat the mistake. Reaching and hoping is the thing that has caused us to have to live with Ollie and Luis when better options were available, only they were available in a different year than the one we had a need at. Only use free agency to get the real difference maker, not the guy you “hope” will be good or OK or your gonna have to live with him when better options come along later.
          • METS62FAN April 6, 2010 at 9:35 am

            Age, can we drop the Castillo charade? Based on last yr he wasn’t a terrible selection. What I see u & others doing is not so much as creating a case against what Luis is; but what he isn’t. Personally, I do not believe we have utilized Luis as productivly as possible. While his strengths overwhelmingly describe a picture perfect #2 hitter on 99% of franchises, I truly believe due to having one of the most game-changing forces batting leadoff, the Mets fall into that 1% exception block. with a Reyes on base, any base, the need for someone to spend a ptrecous “out” in order to advance the runner is superfluous. Reyes on base creates a scenerio whereby the following batter is subjected to an overwelming number of fastballs in an attempt to “hold” Reyes in place. Luis’ inability to capitalize on those offerings negates his strengths as a #2 hitter. personally, I’d prefer Murphy #2 when he returns when the role is driving in Reyes not advancing him.
            Many indicate Luis’ range has shrunk, as has many players ie. Hudson.
            Age, I believe valuing what/who we have is a better fan course of action than decrying who/what we don’t.
            • t agee April 6, 2010 at 10:38 am

              ’62, It’s not Luis that I’m angry about. It’s the thought process behind the re-signing of him. When the current regime took over the second basemen was Kaz Matsui. He was replaced by a very good pickup, Jose Valentin. But at 37 or so years of age the Met FO should have looked for insurance behind Valentin. We could have even picked up Clint Barmes from Colorado for Matsui. Having made the Castillo trade with Minnesota out of neccesity we could have turned Luis into a #1 and a supp pick in the draft as Houston offered him 3 years, instead, again lacking any other options we paid way too much for way too long and have regretted it ever since. That and the fact that 2B is a young man’s position was a huge mistake. As a player I always liked Luis when he was with the Marlins. He still turns a beautiful DP, moves guys over, works the pitcher and gets a lot of walks. All good stuff but with declining range (as all older second basemen suffer from) those skills are not enough. Now, if we had a good range/good glove backup middle infielder who could come in for Luis in the 7th or so we could get by with him but our backups (Cora/Tatis) don’t provide the zig to Castillo’s zag and again it’s the thought process behind the move that bothers me. (Adam Everitt would have been a good back up MI and has been available) What I love about Luis is that he doesn’t try to do what he cant. He has found a way to be an effective MLB player even in his declining years because he helps the team by doing what he does well and not for 1 second do I criticize him. My only point is that between his age/injuries and no one to cover for his weaknesses on the 25 man roster and no one in AA or AAA that did pan out the last 2 years this was a move that backfired big time. 2B should be the domain of a young defensively superior high OB player or you could go with a Dan Uggla type but you cant go with someone who doesn’t have the range at 2B and can’t hit the ball out of the infield. P.S. Agree with your point about Luis hitting behind Reyes, but with the patient Murphy.
              • METS62FAN April 7, 2010 at 12:11 pm

                Age, can we put aside the schoolyard suppositions Re. Barmes available for Kaz?
                Even if true, I certainly believe it likely the Rocks would have demanded more cash as contract coveage since they were giving up more talent. This most likely, based on past ownership decisions re. $ added to players in deals, was beyond Omar’s authority to consumate. As far as lack of depth in youth to cover 2B, what do u consider the plethora of prospective middle-infielders punctuating the roles of out top prospects, TEJADA,HAVENS,FLORES,ETC. we keep adding middle infield youth, with a 27 yr old stud in Reyes cemented @ SS it’s illogical to think none of the aforementioned were chosen for 2B. from all I’ve heard & read, though Tejada has mostly played SS as has most all the others Ruben is the leading inhouse candidate to be ensconced to the right of the middle base for most of his NYM future. Age, I count 3 top level potential prospective Secondbasemen a far cry from ignoring the weakness; but unfortunatly ALL need a tad more perculation. I’m guessing that depth was the rationale for peddling Castillo’s contract so fervently this past offseason! As usual, the big stumbling block is most likely cash demands by potential tradepartners.
              • t agee April 8, 2010 at 7:53 am

                62, Then pay the cash. Period. I didn’t say it was Omar/Jeff/Whoever. Doesn’t matter. Your getting rid of your second basemen and replacing him with a 37 year old. Why not just keep Kaz as your backup MI? Why get rid of him and not get back viable insurance if your 37 year old second basemen gets hurt? Especially if your prospects at that position are 2-5 years away (or not even signed yet) Or was the plan to keep Valentin for 4-5 years or just look around in the off season for whoever might be hanging around so we can over pay them? Foresight baby. It’s about FORESIGHT. In a game that is predicated on probabilities what is the probability that your 37 year old second basemen is going to remain productive for 4-5 years? What is the probability that a 32 year old who needs surgery on both knees and is heavily dependent on his legs for 95% of his production is going to provide better than league average production at 2B for 4 years? Fact is the FO (notice I said Front office) failed to plan for contingencies at 2B when they gave the job to a 37 year old (at a young man’s position too) with out having (or getting) a viable insurance policy for backup in AA or AAA. This is what led to the Mets FO painting themselves into a corner with Castillo. Because of a lack of foresight (as usual and which mostly anyone else could have seen) Now we have had to live with well below league average production from 2B and compounding the lack of good range at 2B we add a backup MI with no range also. If you never take a look at how you went wrong you will just continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. I simply fail to understand how you would not prioritize having an in house insurance policy for 2B if your giving the job to a 37 year old. Foresight. Probabilities. Contingincies. Plan B,C, and D. Maybe they did learn something. Maybe that’s why we had like 7 catchers in ST. Good. No body’s perfect. Maybe this was a hard lesson learned and now the FO will look upon organizational depth differently but we’re still paying the price for not having any other options at 2B in the 2008 off season. Foresight. Long term vision.
        • theonlymaskman April 5, 2010 at 9:32 am

          You failed to mention Marquis.
          • METS62FAN April 6, 2010 at 7:56 am

            MASK, I ALSO DIDN’T MENTION SMOLTZ OR PEDRO; HOWEVER U NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION!
            • theonlymaskman April 6, 2010 at 9:38 am

              62, My impicit answer was that the names you mentioned mostly likely would not make substantial difference as compared to the current place holders, but Marquis very well might and it appeared you failed to include him in the list for a very obvious reason, that being his inclusion might undermine your argument. So I did actually answer it if you understand the intent of my reply.
          • METS62FAN April 6, 2010 at 10:44 am

            Mask, I’m insulted that you would believe me to be so PROGRESSIVE as to deliberatly fail to include a pitcher, who was a Cubs giveaway item just 1Y ago. Sorry, though I too thought him a decent p/u option, I’ve never considered him an actual difference maker or a guaranteed winner of 15+ since a sure winner of 15+ would be the only “better” option to a possible 15g winner that arguably could’ve defined any of the Enigmas during the offseason. FYI, because I can recognize deviousness does not make me devious.
          • METS62FAN April 6, 2010 at 11:02 am

            Hey, Mask your response to my guess that Jeff’s intent is to either have a controllable GM or go without one would not be a unique circumstance in our own team’s history. many fans don’t realize that M.Donald Grant was never a GM; byut acted as one often in his capacity as unfettered Team President(a position then, much equivilent to Jeff’s today(COO)
            As far as I know, Grany only drew 1 paycheck. I believe there actually were 5 GMs in place during Grant’s tenure as TOP EXEC:
            GEORGE WEISS
            NING DEVINE
            JOHNNY MURPHY
            BOB SCHEFFING
            JOE McDONALD
            All the while Grant was converting Shea into “Grant’s Tomb”
            My biggest concern is that No respectable GM cabdidate, knowing the criteria of sheilding all decisions Wilpon, would be willing to risk their reputation to become the next Omar Minaya, wrongfully discredited while restrained by rediculous onspoken unpublicized restrictions they can never, ever publicly mention. Where Wilpons take credit for all that’s good while the hired help must step in front of every bullet.
• In Praise of Craig Swan – A Train Baseball April 4, 2010 at 2:51 pm

  [...] An Optimistic Mets Fan Faces The Hard Truth (metsmerizedonline.com) [...]
• METS62FAN April 8, 2010 at 1:18 pm

  Age, this reply, t agee says: April 8, 2010 at 7:53 am was unreplyable; but I feel a need to reply. I totally agree with you that paying more oF Kaz’ contract was certainly the most prudent course of action if it meant improving upon the return. Unfortunately, for wahtever reason, that’s a course of action the Wilpons have already shown an unewillingness to do as it cost us our best shot @ rebuilding back in ’04 when Duquette was ordered to cleanse the lineup of non-productive older vets acquired by Phillips. Everyone knows that the quickest road to rejuvenation is dealing nonproductive vets to teams needing their promise in return for inexpensive hopfully promising prospects. Typically the more cash consideration accompanying the vets contract the higher level of prospect can be expected in return. you may recall that it was repiorted that Duquette was ordered by Jeff to refuse to include any cash in any of his ’04 deals ridding NY of Alomar, Benitez, Burnitz, Ventura, Zeile a slew of vets most high payroll teams would turn into at least 3 or 4 top 50 prospects as it turned out we got zero, the best prospect we received was Royce Ring from Chisox in Alomar deal & he was included only because we agreed to also except Almonte, a sorearmed AAA reliever we subsequently had no use for. Obviously, for whatever reason, the Wilpons refuse to do certain ultimately advantageous financial moves such as exceeding Luxury tax line, eating unproductive player contracts, incl cash allowance while dealing away high priced vets while not flinching @ high payroll levels. I’ve often attributed much of that behavior to Fred’s Depression Era background of unwilling to spend good money after bad or pay for services not to be rendered. But, that’s just MY GUESSING!
  • t agee April 9, 2010 at 8:04 am

    ’62, Paying some/most/all of those salaries would have kept us from paying a lot more and getting a lot less down the road. I think it’s very possible that Jeff feels the need to show a positive bottom line each year rather than taking a long term view cost vs benefit approach. This shortsighted approach would prevent any GM from being able to consistently put a contender on the field and is the biggest obstacle that we face.
    • METS62FAN April 9, 2010 at 9:51 am

      Age, we’re in total agreement for a change. I had a service tech, come to my home in NC last night, he’s orig from upstyate NY & as a NYY fan chided me upon seeing my homeoffice respemdant in NYM paraphanelia as if the NYMg hanging near my front door wasn’t a giveaway. My point is he honestly asked me what I thought for this year, he followed up with asking what do I think the NYM problem has been, I replied, There’s been many; but our biggest constant issue is the ownership mainly represented by the COO, Jeff Wilpon.
      Age, I’m not about to proclaim Omnar Minaya as a top 5 GM in baseball today; but I would peg him slightly better than midway; he probaly deserves bonus points for dealing with the “Wilpon Rules of Engagement”
      For those who bestow upon Theo Epstein the mantle of Best GM. I’d say #1 if he had the opportunity & was somehow unemployed, there’s no possible way he accepts the Met job with Wilpon rules. no potential “better than Omar” candidate would work under those restrictions & shielding Jeff conditions either. For my money, Omar’s likely the best available to us only because having grownup a Met fan, it’s his DREAM job despite NIGHTMARISH circumstances. For a team that’s been without a bonafide firstrounder of any note since Pelfrey in ’04, the mere fact we’ve Davis,Tejada,Niese, Mejia,F-Mart as up & comers becries the invectives against him as a farm ignorer. Think about it as well as consider all we lost in Santana deaL. THROW OUT CATILLO & PEREZ CONTRACTS & HIS PLUSES FAR OUTWEIGH ALL PERCEIVED NEGATIVES! Be honest & recall that prior to Omar Minaya the last meaningful top shelf FA landed by NYM was George Foster! Everyone seems willing to forget or discard that prior to Omar, Met rumored interest in a big ticket FA was considered mere palp or agent attempts to use us to drive up price. Fred Wilpon has been an owner since 1980, Jeff has ben COO since ’02. Omar has been GM since ’05. Which has had the most positive impact? the most negative? In my opinion, the worst thing that can happen id firing Omar, since that means we’ve replaced him with either an inferior GM or a desperate one, willing to whore for Jeff like Duquette.