Comments on: What We Learn From The Brooklyn Dodgers

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:46:12 +0000

chich, right on! 2006? getting to the nlcs was a near miraculous accomplishment after losing 2 key sp, neither pedro nor duque made 1 pitch in those playoffs leaving glavine & trachsel as our stalwarts in the rotation from the get go. under those circumstances, one should consider getting so close with so little someone had to have exceeded expectations. to consider the ’06 postseason a failure is reduiculous sans 40% of our rotation & 50% of our setup tandem(sanchez). if pitching is the key to success in postseason how can battling with such a crppled crew & almost succeeding be considered a failure? no pitching, no glory! taking everything into consideration pedro must be considered the worst signing of omar’s nym career, as he was gone in the most needful times. i know that’s heresy to many; but it’s certainly true! not one critical end of season pitch successfully completed by pedro through ’06-’08. what’s worse than that? i loved having him too; but i’m self deluded on that matter in my heart; but not my head!

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:55:20 +0000

Absolutely yes. The Rotunda should have been named for either Bill Shea or Gil. Gil would probably have been the better choice and the Wilpons could still have had the Dodger presence there as Gil was honored as a Met and the manager of the ’69 team. It would have been a great way of working in recognition of Tom Terrific and the other ’69 Mets as well. The 86 Mets ould have been honored in a different way or at a later date. But then the Rotunda would have been about the Mets and no fans would have criticized if Jackie was represented there as well in some way.

By: TommyJ

TommyJ — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:32:24 +0000

I also take nothing from Jackie Robinson. He deserves every accolade MLB can bestow upon him. But having said that Citifield is the home of the NY METS. Jackie Robinson was never a Met. Honor him in a reasonable at Citifield, fine. That rotunda should have been named for someone like William Shea who got the Mets into the NL, or my choice #14 Gil Hodges.

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:17:57 +0000

TommyJ, You are correct. I began as a Brooklyn Dogers fan in the 50′s and greeted the Mets in 62 with open arms as an abandoned fan. I was always a NL fan and the 5 years of no NL team in NY was a disaster during my teens. I look back to those 50′s Dodger teams with fondness, but have no allegiance to the current Dodgers. I am now a Mets fan and the Dodgers are just another competitor. As such, I find the Wilpons homage to the Dodgers as an affront to the Mets, although I think there is a need to honor Jackie Robinson in a reasonable way much less than with the current excessive shrine. Jackie is a huge heritage in baseball having broken the color line and standing up to all the hostility he unfairly received and as such deserves to be recognized in NY. That needs to be done in a balanced way and should be secondary to honoring the historic Mets in their home stadium. If Fred is unable to do that, he should move to LA and buy the Dodgers from the McCourts. Let’s get an owner here who can do what is right for the Mets.

By: TommyJ

TommyJ — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:38:43 +0000

The Mets image pays homage to both former NY teams. The NY emblem is from the Giants, the orange is from the Giants, the blue is from the Dodgers. Only the current owner seems to want to recreate his beloved Dodgers at the expense of Mets history. Just look how they had to be shamed into creating a Mets museum at their own ballpark. Think the Yankees would EVER forget to do that? The Dodgers mean nothing to me.
The Mets history began in 1962. My history with this team began in 1968. For me THE greatest team in Mets history will always be the 1969 Mets. Talk about a team that played with heart. I’m tired of all the talk about the Brooklyn Dodgers. They ran off a long time ago to California. If the current owner loves that team so much sell the Mets move to California and buy the Dodgers.

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:11:59 +0000

Matt74, Although 5 yrs younger than your dad, I also had the same favorite player, #14, as a kid. I was thrilled when he was drafted by the Mets. One stabilizing factor for me is seeing his retired number displayed at Mets games. When the Dodgers left I was 15 yrs old. There was no baseball for me until the Mets arrived when I was 20. I have been a Mets fan since and, although I criticize the current ownership and mgmt, I will always be loyal to the emblem and look forward to new ownership and mgmt because I see that as what is needed for the team to improve to true competitive stature.

By: Matt74

Matt74 — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:52:45 +0000

As far as things go, this article was great, but at my ripe old age of 35, I feel a different way. My Dad was a Brooklyn Dodger fan. He was born in 37. He, at that age did not understand the impact of #42. He grew as a fan. He never talked to me how he was so imnportant to beseball, but how important he was to the team (Jackie did retire b/c he was traded to the hated giants). No one could steal a base like Jackie.
My Dad watched a lot of heartbreak. None like a Met fan can imagine.
It was year after year. The Dodgers died in 57.
My Dad gave up baseball until his favorite player became Mets Mgr in 68. Won a series in 69.
There is a lot more I can write, but it’s just different
If the Mets want to be “Dem Bums” then make every 1b 14, Cf 4, 2b 42,
SS 1, C 39, RF 6, 3b 3 and so on.

By: Jim B

Jim B — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:48:23 +0000

Bayonne, it shows your lack of common sense and ability to read a sentence to understand it’s meaning. Let me explain this to you in a way someone as simple minded as yourself can understand. You enjoy debating with people who agree with you = you enjoy only talking to people you agree with, and you believe that is a debate. You always seem to rip on people for there “dumb opinions” or claiming that they are wasting your time. It not only shows your innate ability to make yourself look like a d-bag, but also reveals that you probably have such a low opinion of yourself that you have to always put down anybody else who contributes an opposing view. If you have such a great baseball mind, can view talent from the tv in your basement, and can contribute such great baseball knowledge why are you still debating people on a website?

By: Buddy H

Buddy H — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:17:57 +0000

Outstanding article………..my favorite part “Personally, and in this context, I despise the word “choke”. It has no place in the dictionary of sports. It is a sleazy and short-sighted way of not examining the true reasons behind failing. Have you ever heard anyone claim that Gil Hodges or Duke Snider choked? Yet numerous times they didn’t come through in the clutch during the Worlds Series”

By: Buddy H

Buddy H — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:16:58 +0000

and I say bull to that……….I think that its todays automatic standard terms thrown out when their team fails, No heart and No talent………..sorry, I did NOT witness the same…….

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:54:47 +0000

Nosh, You’re right. It would be worth waiting if we knew we had something to wait for. As you say with these owners and GM there is no sense of progress season by season. You would think that we could think in terms of a pennant contender by 2012 or 2013. But how can you when the ownership acts as though it’s all about the money and building the grandchildren’s fund. I agree that the best thing for the Mets would be the Wilpons selling out. And as you say it can’t be too soon.

By: Chicho

Chicho — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:54:33 +0000

I think he meant you only like talking to people when the agree with you. And that you think anyone who doesn’t agree with you is an idiot. Jim B is right.

I sitll want to hear where you proved me wrong. I have looked back and couldn’t find it. Maybe you can explain how you proved me worng instead of saying that I don’t just get it.

By: trish

trish — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:41:52 +0000

The dodgers won pennants. Dem Bums were slightly different then the Amazins’ Most of the Dodgers’ “choking” were done by losing the WS. Great time for NYC baseball!!!!

By: nosh

nosh — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:30:03 +0000

maskman-
I have plenty of patience. In fact I would love nothing more than for the organization to look itself in the mirror and say “you know what, we can’t compete for a championship these next few years, lets start rebuilding this thing for the 2011/12 season and beyond.” Much like the 5 year plan Cashen put in place when he took over the Mets in the early 80′s. But instead I get this bumbling idiot owner and even dumber GM, and I watch them build a horrid baseball team. Not only devoid of talent, but lacking a fundamental element, of hustle, heart, desire, whatever you want to call it. But without that it makes the team unwatchable. And really, hard to root for.

“Wait till next year” fine, I’d love too. I’d gladly wait till 2013 if they just told me they had a plan. But unfortunately my rallying cry and I think the rallying cray for most Mets fans has become “Wait till the Wilpons sell”. Hopefully it will be soon.

By: theonlymaskman

theonlymaskman — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:13:55 +0000

I too come from a family of Dodger fans who turned into Mets fans. There is a linkage in the history and the traditions. Your are correct that Brooklyn Dodgers fans lived with the slogan “Wait till Next Year!”. They lived in a rivalry with the Giants and Yanks in a period of Golden Years in baseball. Dodger fans lived with that slogan over their entire history as a franchise only finally reaching success in 1955 and only to leave forever in 1957. The Mets had a similar kharma in their early years when the fans reveled in the team trying even as they inevitably failed. But 1969 changed everything. The Mets hit success early on in their history as a franchise. Ever since winning is demanded and “Wait till Next Year!” has been replaced with “Win Now!” Mets fans now demand success every year and see 1969 as our introduction into the the Bigs and 1986 as a very long time ago. There is no patience with trying. We demand to be the best. Let’s Go Mets!

By: Bayonne Mets Fan

Bayonne Mets Fan — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:53:05 +0000

“You only enjoy debating people who agree with you”

How do you debate somebody who agrees with you??

They ask for it people…I’m tellin ya, you can’t make this stuff up.

By: Des

Des — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:30:40 +0000

Hell no, Branca did not choke. Thomson’s sacrifice fly ball a couple of innings earlier off of Don Newcombe that scored Monte Irvin was undoubtedly hit further and harder than his home run off of Branca.

Just as Mets fans have noticed the sometimes cruel fate of the Gods at CitiField when balls that are crushed become long outs and a few cheapie homers are hit to right field, so too it was at the Polo Grounds. It was a weirdly shaped facility, designed like a bathtub.

Maybe the only place worse for baseball that I’m aware of was the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum where the Dodgers played in during their first few years on the west coast. Its left field line wasn’t much more than the width of a football field and surrounding track area. It was just 251 feet from home plate. So when Don Drysdale or Sandy Koufax gave up a homer at the Coliseum, did they choke? I don’t think so.

By: Des

Des — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:43:39 +0000

Russell — Probably to most Dodger fans of my generation the events of that day in the Polo Grounds have seared our minds. They likely still revisit all of us from time to time. Today Bobby Thomson and Ralph Branca are apparently good friends, due in large part by Ralph’s congenial, forgiving personality. I don’t know if Thomson has ever confessed but if he knew Branca’s pitches ahead of time, it was cheating, pure and simple.

Some writers now call Thomson’s hit a line drive. To me, that’s making a mountain out of a molehill. I remember it as a shallow, lazy fly ball which grazed the overhang in left field.

By: Jim B

Jim B — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:04:59 +0000

You only enjoy debating people who agree with you, and anybody who doesn’t you claim is an idiot or is wasting your time. You haven’t proved anybody on this entire website wrong ever, you have only stated your opinions in a way that makes you look like a total a**hole. I don’t know if your managerial experience in the Babe Ruth leagues has showed you this, but there is a clear difference between being an a**hole, and being correct.

By: Jim B

Jim B — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:00:51 +0000

@ Danny krieger

Great article, I come from a family history of brooklyn dodger fans who turned into Met fans in 1962 and there is a very clear link between the two. It is almost like the LA Dodgers are a totally different organization entirely from the Brooklyn Dodgers, Dem Bums continue with the Mets, and unfortunately it seems the Mets inherited the bad luck as well.

The difference between the Dodgers and Mets however is that when Dodger fans said “Wait till Next year” they actually meant it and were close to or in the world series, the Mets…..lets just say they don’t come close sadly.