Number Two Starter Or More Of The Same?

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• METS62FAN December 28, 2009 at 9:29 am

  All this shows is “who is actually in charge”, isn’t it Jeff who, shortly after the Winter Meeting chose to point out how the team trailed the entire industry in Home Runs, suddenly signaling a shift in course from pitching to power hitting. Obviously the plan to build around Pitching,defense & speed has been scuttled. Since I live far outside WFAN range & refuse to listen via internet, I’m forced to ask any of you devotees whether the lack of Power was a significant topic in late Nov or early Dec? I ask since Jeff once remarked he was an AVID listener & considered calls AN APPROPRIATE SOURCE for DIRECTION DEMANDED BY FANS(SEE ACQUISITIONS OF BENSON & ZAMBRANO IN ’04)!
  • Mykey December 28, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Even before Nov. and Dec. Mets fans were calling up WFAN and were asking for power bats. However, just as many, if not more were also calling about the pitching and defense.
    • Bob L December 28, 2009 at 11:07 am

      yes, both ‘needs’ have been repeatedly begged for by Met fans and WFAN ‘hosts’ these past few months since season’s end. i cannot fathom how Jeff did not get the ‘picture’.
      • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 9:41 am

        BOB, #1, LOOK AT LIL’ jEFFIE, DO U SEE A SPORTSMAN? Do you think Daddy spent a lot of time tossing the ball with his boys in the driveway?
        Personally, I do not believe there is a sports fan in the entire Wilpon Family Tree. Unfortunatrely Jeffie dioesn’r seem to know what he doesn’t know. Contending & meaningful are the Wilpon goals, not necessarily winning.
        • theonlymaskman December 29, 2009 at 3:13 pm

          62,
          But they are not even delivering “contending and meaningful”. What they are providing is non-competitive and meaningless. When will they reach their goals as meager as they are?
• chris December 28, 2009 at 10:22 am

  I still hold out hope that they will do a deal with a lot of incentives for Sheets or Bedard. At least both have number 2 stuff if they can get past their injuries. I am more leery of Piniero since he had Dave Duncan workking with him. He would probably revert to less than stellar form with the Mets.

  Then of course there is the continuing “drama” with left field and catcher. Rather than Bay, I would prefer Holliday and one of the pitchers above to the combo of Holliday and Molina and leave our rotation unaddressed. I would be fine with Blanco, Santos or maybe another low cost, good defensive catcher rather than spending 6 mil plus per year on Molina.
• Phil Groh December 28, 2009 at 11:05 am

  “Yawn” is all I can say about this off season …… Lets Go Jets!
• ALEX24 December 28, 2009 at 11:12 am

  In 2006 we had a rotation of el duque, glavine, maine (inexpirience), traschel, perez and his 7.88 era and we steamed roll in the regular season, mind u in the playoff it came back to hunt us, but if we’re going wit perez, maine, pelfrey and niese after santana we need all the offense we can get, that’s why adding molina as catcher (don’t like him or want him) along wit a power lf makes sense. Phillies won wit moyer, blanton and co becoz of their offense carried them, we should do the same wit no clear #2 in the market.
  • K Maxx December 28, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    Are you serious?? No need to go back as far as 2006, when 2009 already gave us an indication of what to expect from Maine, Perez, Pelfrey and Niese. If you change nothing, dont expect anything to change. Everybody knows that. If you keep doing the same things, you’ll keep getting the same results. I thought that was common knowledge. Also, the Mets dont have Utley, Howard, Rollins, Victorino, Werth, Ibanez and Polanco to bail them out.
    • ALEX24 December 28, 2009 at 1:25 pm

      So with bay or holiday and molina u don’t think our lineup stack up wit philladelphia’s? I honestly disagree wit that. We have a good bullpen as it is, and if reyes is healthy along wit beltran, our lineup can be as productive as it was the past few year.
      • Bob L December 28, 2009 at 2:01 pm

        i think el duque, glavine, trachsell all had good to decent years in 2006, as did the ‘young’ john maine….our rotation is burdened with QQQ-marks. Injuries, inconsistency, psyche issues. No, we need; we must add quality and depth to the rotation, first; defense/speed 2nd; power is needed but behind pitching, defense, and speed.
  • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 11:07 am

    Alex, I belive you’re suffering from a bit of faulty recall since u neglected to list Pedro and BTW on openning day of ’06 Duque was a Snake(aquired midseason for Jorge Julio) also on openning day Perez was a Pirate (acquired 8/1 in Nady deal for (Hernandez reacquisition to replace Duanner & proponderance of that inflated ERA earned as a Buc))also on openning day, i believe Maine was a Zephyr (expended roster callup) most of those complaing of ’06 as a failure forget the loss of both Pedro & Duque for the playoffs forcing Willie to ensconce both Maine & Perez alongside Glavine & TRACHSEL. The mere fact we advanced as far as we did in 10 games missing 40% of our seasonal rotation & 50% of our setup crew was an accomplishment in my opinion.
    • ALEX24 December 29, 2009 at 11:13 am

      Again, u just made my point about having a great offense, I was well aware o feverything that happened in 2006, my point was exactly waht u said, we had no pitching but great offense, and we made it all the way to the championship gmae.. If we have a great offense coming in 2010 we can survive wit perez, pelfrey, maine and niese as our starters..
      • METS62FAN December 30, 2009 at 10:54 am

        alex24, i guess u forgot the mets were #3 in runs scored in nl for 2006.
        http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byteam?cat=Overall&cut_type=0&conference=MLB&year=season_2006&sort=702

        it wasn’t the offense, it was the lack of Pedro & Duque for the Post that derailed us as well as Trax going all “NO MAS” on us!
• theonlymaskman December 28, 2009 at 11:32 am

  2010 is rapidly shaping up to be a disaster year. With a staff coming back from injuries, the stage is set for major problems. All of these recoveries will not work out leaving a rotation with holes. Escobar, himself in recovery, will be the insurance filler. It is doubtful this will all work out very well.
  • METS62FAN December 30, 2009 at 9:03 am

    Mask, your comment below from 3:13pm was unreplyable. I’ll do so here,
    “62,
    But they are not even delivering “contending and meaningful”. What they are providing is non-competitive and meaningless. When will they reach their goals as meager as they are?”
    REPLY… Mask, I fear u r peering at the empty portion of the glass. I would state beyond a doubt that being in contention for the playoffs up to & including the very last game of the reg season as we were in ’07 & ’08 when added to ’06 signifies the most meaningful & competitive stretch of seasons in franchise history. Here’s a fact often missed by deniers & Omar-haters” THE MOST SIGNIFICANT, BASIC INGREDIENT FOR A LATE SEASON “COLLAPSE” IS A SEEMINGLY INSURMOUNTABLE “LATE SEASON LEAD” by definition a collapse is a meaningful, competitive situation. Mask, switch to cola instead of kool-aide, please!
    NO FAIR MINDED INDIVIDUAL WOULD CONSIDER LAST SEASON AS ANYTHING MORE THAN AN UNFORTUNATE “ACT OF GOD” SITUATION. BTW, ONLY ONE OF OUR SIGNIFICANT INJURIES EFFECTED A PLAYER OLDER THAN 35(DELGADO) ALL OTHERS IN OR PRE-PRIME.
• Vinny December 28, 2009 at 11:41 am

  I agree with ALEX24, it’s hard to think back how many stellar performances the Phillies starters performed last year and their world series year. As far as i can remember they had clutch hits and home runs by the batters such as Ryan Howard and Chase Utley.
• sarge December 28, 2009 at 12:41 pm

  Wow someone still believes that Sheets will sign for a lower amount in addition to incentives? Sheets will not allow anyone to see him pitch from mound and he and his agent say, “Take our word for it, Ben will be 100% by 2010.” Yeah and Ollie is the next Carlton, come on just drop the Sheets coming to Mets. I believe that he will do what Clemens and Pedro did and sit out 3 months, pitch in a Cape Cod or something league and then when a team is desperate for pitching then pounce.
  I am questioning the lack of movement but do not arrive at the final decision that Mets will only win 5 games in April Joe. Please as bad as last year was we had a less defined rotation in 06, as stated by Alex, and made it to within one game of WS so I don’t get the negativity from you Joe.
  Do we want to make a signing for the sake of “splash” for WFAN, and when do the hosts of a station that has many Met detractors become the voice of what should or should not be done, and media or do we want to step back, acknowledge that Jeff is influencing the decisions and hope that the Mets bring in depth for the staff, Garland, Washburn, Piniero and maybe some RH OF help and for 1B also.
  I believe that Milwaukee overpaid for Wolf and it will come back to bite them as the signing by Braves did with Lowe. You cannot overpay for these second tier pitchers that demand 2-4 year contracts based on one good year, Piniero for example. Marquis didn’t want to come to Mets and be a number among those competing, whereas in D.C. he can be the leader, which he was not going to be in NY.
  So yes we have not made the big bat signing or the big pitcher signing but Halliday was not coming to NY, Wolf was asking too much, Lackey did not want to come to NY so what do you do?
  This off season and the results by next years team will determine the mgrs and GM’s future and what direction Mets should take but I believe that Mets can be patient this off season and make some move in 2010 before season is over cause they have that extra cash.
  I don’t see a problem with Santana returning to form, Maine pitched great in his last start, Ollie will be looked at in his rehab stint in AZ by Mets and Niese was pitching great until getting hurt. This is not comparable to Nats Joe when you consider all the injury issues with Mets staff. Now if they are all healthy and they still cannot throw the ball over the plate or are being bombed then I am willing to concede your point but please allow the hurt pitchers to pitch and perform before comparing them to Nats, please.
  With a big park, good defense and steady pitching and a strong BP Mets can and will win in 2010.
  Lets see what spring training and April brings before we bury the season that has not started yet. Games are not won in Dec but between April and Sep so please don’t let the rantings of WFAN down you cause I am positive that Mets will rebound next year and will at least take the wild card. Lets Go Mets!
• Chicho December 28, 2009 at 12:46 pm

  I think one of Pelfrey,Maine,Perez,Niese or Nieve can turn around and have a good year. I acctually don’t think it is bad idea to have Niese and Nieve as #4 and #5. Both looked good in their short time in the MLB this year.

  But what I have a problem with is having Pelfrey,Maine and Perez as 2,3 and 4. I would try to trade Pelfrey and Maine and try to get somebody back.

  If we can’t get a pitcher in a trade I would sign Sheets and Bedard. When they are healthy they are #2 and when they are at their best they could be a #1.

  We should also get Champman. at first I didn’t like giving money to a pitcher who never pitched in the MLB but he instantly become our number one prospect. and could compeat for the starting job.

  1 Santana
  2 Sheets
  3 Bedard
  4 Niese
  5 Nieve/Champman/Perez
  • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 10:17 am

    Chicho, I believe the plan is not adding another SP; but increasing productivity of existing pitching via Molina addition. Bengie has a proven track record working with young pitching to attain maximum effectivness with both LAA & SF. If he is capable of milking more attainment than potential out of 20ish Pelfrey,Maine,Perez,Niese,Nieve the onhand pitching may be sufficient if nor sexy. We all know Pelfrey is able to win 13G, Perez & Maine 15 each if Molina can lead them all back there we’d be fine esp in CITI. Granted that’s a mighty BIG ‘IF’; but it may be more easily attained than gambling on Sheets or Bedard not knowing if Sheets is even capable of pitching anymore. Sheets has refused to audition before signing & is demanding 12M per to sign in an unseen, ‘as is’ condition. Can we stop considering that dillusional AH?
    • Chicho December 29, 2009 at 11:03 am

      If Sheets is hurt he won’t be getting 12 million. I would still sign him cheap even if he was hurt. Everyone knows he is a force when he is healthy so why not take a chance on him? If he is going to get 12 million I wouldn’t do it but if he wants 6 million with with incentives I will do it.

      I like Bedard for a three reasons. One is that he is cheap. two he is a lefty and will give the Phillies alot of problems. three having him for a half a year is better than having any one FA pitchers for a full year.

      I agree that Pelfrey,Maine,Niese,Nieve and even Perez could all have a good year. They are all talented and some have had good years in the past. I don’t mind them as back of the rotation starters but the Mets shouldn’t rely on them as a #2 or a#3 starters.
• K Maxx December 28, 2009 at 1:40 pm

  Lay off the Koolaid!!! The 2006 Mets hit over 200 homeruns, had 7 batters in double digit homeruns, 3 batters with 110 RBI’s or more.

  The 2006 Mets rotation also featured 2 multiple Cy Young winners and Hall of Famers.

  Put down the crack pipes!
  • ALEX24 December 28, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Again, check our 2007, 2008, 2009 lineup, if u go by year we’ve had great offensive season the past 3 years, our achilles heels has been the bullpen, bullpen, and starting pitching in that order. If we add bay or holliday and molina here’s our projected lineup:
    Reyes
    Castillo
    Beltran
    Bay/holliday
    Wright
    Molina
    Murphy
    Francour
    • Chicho December 28, 2009 at 2:16 pm

      I agree that is a very good lineup and compeat with anybody. But we still need to get atleast one pitcher.
      • ALEX24 December 28, 2009 at 2:21 pm

        Agree, but someone who’s actually a great compliment to santana, not another #3, or someone who’s been injure or hasn’t pitched since 2008. If our lineup produce to everyone avg year and we do get bay/holliday and molina we be tough to content wit. We need to be optimistic
        • Chicho December 28, 2009 at 2:29 pm

          There is no pitcher left that is a number 2 and has not been on the DL last year. Sheets and Bedard are the best pitchers left. Mets should sign one of them but I would want them to get both.
        • ALEX24 December 28, 2009 at 2:36 pm

          Chicho,

          Exactly, and that’s why u focus on offense, after that then u can turn to those low risk/high rewards pitchers u mention, if they stay healthy it’ll be a huge boost to our team pitching wise, but if not then our offense can protect/overcome starts by maine, perez, pelfrey and niese.
        • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 10:00 am

          So, Alex? Who’s your proven cleanup hitter assuming we ink Bay & Molina?
          That’s the biggest concern, not a #2 SP; we experienced the same problem in ’05, solve4d it with Delgado in ’06. Note the difference?
          ’05- 83-79 T-3 7GB
          ’06- 97-65 1ST by 12G
        • ALEX24 December 29, 2009 at 10:22 am

          Metsfan62:

          In 2007 delgado gave us squat out of the cleanup spot, and we lead the division until the last day of the season. In 2008 wright hit .243 wit risp and we were in contention the whole year. Why? Due to great years by the other 3. Whther it was beltran, wright, delgado and reyes. If we get bay and he hits 30 to 35 hr’s wit 110 rbi’s wouldn’t u be happy? There’s no big cleanup hitter out there, but bay can be productive in our lineup wit reyes and beltran ahead of him. Think positive
    • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 10:27 am

      Alex, I’m not convinced either of those lf options is capable of batting cleanup in CITI meeting the prerequisite power output; but I’d offer one significant alteration for your consideration:
      Reyes
      Beltran
      Murphy
      Bay/Holliday
      Wright
      Francoeur
      Molina
      Castillo
      Mainly since Reyes’ speed & SB proficiency negates the need to be sac’d over and Castillo is the least capable of making the most out of the fastballs Reyes on base produces. Flipping Castillo(8 to 7), Molina(7 to may not be a bad option allowing pitcher to sac Molina over and using hit & run when Luis is on first w/<2 outs.
      • ALEX24 December 29, 2009 at 10:35 am

        I like that idea, but remember castillo is best out of the 2 spot not the 8th.. Wit that being said I don’t like murphy 3. I like him better at either 6th or 7th. I much rather have wright at if his power is not there since he’s a great avg hitter.
        • METS62FAN December 30, 2009 at 11:17 am

          Alex, your prior post re. Delgado in ’07 was unreplyable, I’ll do so here;
          We certainly have very different definitions of the word ‘SQUAT’. While I’ll admit Delgado suffered through a down productyiuon yr for him, I certainly wouldn’t classify
          30-2b
          24-HR
          87-RBI
          .781-OPS
          .448-SLG
          118-Ks
          .258=AVG.
          as SQUAT!
          Disappointing certainly; but better than squat!
          btw, I’m likely one of the more optimistic posters on this site & have been crucified for my “too optimistic” positions by the best here, way too often.
• Lifelongmetsfan December 28, 2009 at 2:09 pm

  If we are waiting for Ben Sheets to be our #2 starter we’re in trouble. How many innings is Sheets really capable of throwing in 2010? If Sheets can return to his old form and throw 200+ inngs a year I’d say sign in NOW! Of course!
  But with one major elbow tendon re-do surgery behind him chances are he is now a 160-180 inng pitcher at best. 6inngs a game.
  So lets take a look at our projected starting staff as of today and their best case projected inngs per start in 2010:

  Santana- 7-8 inngs
  *Sheets- 6-7inngs
  Perez- 5-6inngs
  Maine- 6-7inngs
  Niese- 5-6inngs

  Thats horrible. Our bullpen will be kuput by the end of July.
  • Chicho December 28, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    What makes you think that Niese can’t become a good starter? He was doing good before he got hurt last year and he is only 23.
    • Bob L December 28, 2009 at 2:37 pm

      i just hope Niese recovers from his hamstring injury, but i agree; he had a superb 2 months in AAA and looked good to me also.
      My lament is, i am stunned that Omar doesn’t seem to think we need pitching depth in the rotation. Every one of our starting pitchers in 2009 either have injury issues or in the case of Pelfrey, pysche issues (and a weary arm from an over-loaded ’08 season…for a young hurler).
• Lifelongmetsfan December 28, 2009 at 3:10 pm

  Hey Chicho and Bob Happy Holidays to you both!
  Chicho it’s not that I don’t beelive Niese can develop into a quality starting pitcher. I do. I just don’t think he would give us more than 5 or 6 inngs a start next year IF he is on the staff.
• Lifelongmetsfan December 28, 2009 at 3:12 pm

  Bob I think Pelfrey will be traded before the start of the year.
  • Bob L December 28, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Yes Lifelongmetsfan, i would not be surprised if Pelfrey is traded also. Of course, that presumes Omar gets some sparkplugs attached to his fingers and starts making deals and F/A signings.
• Original Met Fan December 28, 2009 at 4:26 pm

  Who didn’t see this scenario coming?

  This team isnt in need of tweaking, what it really needs is a total overhaul starting with trading Johan Santana to the Red Sox for Clay Buchholtz, and Ellsbury. Then trading Carlos Beltran, Mike Pelfrey and cash to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez.
  • ALEX24 December 28, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    Thank god omar minaya is our gm and not u..
  • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Original, that’s likely the most unrealistic proposal I’ve ever encountered, Do u not comprehend MLB finances? Padres are trying to drastically cut payroll, not add to it. The Mets don’t, as an ownership policy, add significant cash to transactions & u’d be talking mult-millions to overcome 2 “NO TRADE” clauses with Santana & Beltran. All in all u were probably the best trader of cards in your playground yrs ago.
• Dave [Retire 31] December 28, 2009 at 5:02 pm

  There’s always Doug Davis
• sarge December 28, 2009 at 7:24 pm

  Hey Lifelong, why can Niese only pitch 5 innings? Do you know something we don’t? He has been pitching a lot of innings in AAA and while not ML those are innings that he has under his belt that have taught him how to manage a game and go longer into a game. Until we see a full season of Niese lets not knock his durability w/o proof that he can’t pitch a lot of innings, he might surprise a few of us this coming year. Yeah trade Pelf and another team will give us the #2 pitcher we need. This is not fantasy baseball friends, I say sign two of Davis, Garland, Washburn, Piniero, Padilla or even Wang. Stay away from Sheets until he shows that he can pitch from a mound for more than 5 pitches. This is another injury with lots of money tied up into it waiting to happen. Why has no one signed Sheets yet if he is 100% as his agent likes to boast? Hah he must have thought he was selling used cars. No offense to car dealers.
  In the end, with the condition that the core plays at least 150 games, I would be happy to bring in two other starters that pitch a lot of innings, stay away from Vlad. Byrd, Gomes, Podzednki, Ankiel, Baldelli, Cust and others are ther for depth in OF and maybe Huff for backup at 1st, I would not have a problem with Murp getting most at bats at 1b cause he showed last year that w/o playing there previously he could handle the pressure, not afraid to makes the throws that Delgado wouldn’t make, and he is willing to learn, he is young and cheap plus he tied for team lead in HR plus he hit a couple of good ones at Citi tht were not cheap ones. Maybe Mets could pick up Hudson as a bench player and to share 2b with Castillo keeping them both healthy and rested and to inspire the other to play better. But, there are not #2′s out there, Lackey dissed us, hope Yanks bomb him, Halliday was never in play so who are these magical #2′s out there that Mets can sign?
  In closing here I am going out on a very thin limb but I think that Ollie will come back strong next year and I believe, personally no stats to back this up, that the WBC, Team Mexico and his pitching coach did not handle him properly, he waited one time over a week to pitch and I don’t think coming off of last season he was ready to start pitching as much as he had to in WBC. Sometimes patriotism in WBC can come back to hurt teams, especially their pitchers who are entrusted to non team coaches in this to win for national pride. IMO
  • Lifelongmetsfan December 28, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Hello Sarge,
    In response to your comments. I am not proposing the Mets trade Pelfrey for a #2 starter Haaahaaaaa.. but rather I think the Mets recognized Pelfrey has not developed as hoped and may have reached may have even reached his ceiling. Pelfrey is an attractive piece of a larger package to hopefully fill a hole.
    I have always been a fan of Pelfrey’s I like his work ethic and he comes across as a decent low key guy. If only he could have command over that hard moving sinker and keep in ator just below the knees all the time! Pelfrey may very well be in his prime right now.
    Regarding Neise, the most innings Niese has pitched in a season is 167 inngs. COnbine this with his vulnerability the 2nd and 3rd time though a lineup due to the lack of a 2nd quality pitch and you have a young pitcher with potential but no hx. of consistently pitching into the 7th or 8th inng.
    • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 8:10 am

      Lifer, I too have been a big; albeit disappointed proponent for “Big Pelf”, I believe we’ve witnessed a constant career of transformation, starting as a big, power pitching prospect capable oh high K-rates transitioned by Peterson to a sinkerballing, ‘contact’ pitcher, attempting to reclaim his Power proficiency. In my opinion, what he’s missed foremost is an onfield guide. Schneider, Castro, Santos, Thole were all clueless re. when to go power vs. contact. Thus we saw an increase in both K-rate as well as HR for the “big fella”. Hopfully, Molina is the missing ingrediant, having witnessed his expertise at milking the best out of his young proteges with both LAA & SF. I’m praying Bengie comes to his senses re. term length, accepts our 2y offer & applies his magic touch to those that need it most, Pelfrey, Maine, Perez. As a student of the Met game for 48 yrs now, I’ve seen us go from old & incompetant castoffs(early 60s) to young studs in need of guidance(late 60s) back to a mixed bag of young/old competant/incompetant (most of 70s) back to young studs needing guidance (80s) through older,wiser, know what to do; but can’t do (90s-early 2000s), here we find ouirselves with > 30ish rotation with talent+confusion caused by major style alterations in guidabce due to radical change in pc with zero stability/competancy at the dish. Is it any wonder why we’ve struggled so mightily with a generally accepted under achieving 2 through 4? This is why Barajas is not an alternative for Molina despite offensive similarities. Stubborn, Hard nosed are characterisics of both Jerry Grote & Bengie Molina, let’s hope there’s more similarities than that. Ill never forget a Johnny Bench interview from early 70s ASG after catching both Seaver & Kooze in which he stated he was very glad Grote was never a member of the Reds organization, when asked why, he responded he’d have had to find another position! Likely the greatest compliment Grote ever rec’d!
      • Lifelongmetsfan December 29, 2009 at 1:40 pm

        I think we are all disappointed in Pelfrey. It makes it even more frustrating when as a fan you see a really good guy not reaching his potential.
        If we’re waiting for Molina to be Pelfrey’s and this pitching staff’s “savior” we’re in trouble. Mike Pelfrey simply needs to “grow up fast” and get over his “yips.”
        2010 is Pelfrey’s year to either mature as a pitcher or fade into the vast wasteland littered with the Craig Swan’s, Pat Zachary etc etc of the world.
  • METS62FAN December 29, 2009 at 8:24 am

    Sarge, I was with u most of the way; but was disappointed when u neglected to point out, what i perceive as the biggest hole in our lineup, even if they sign both Molina & Bay, who’s the cleanup hitter?
    Beltran? no, he’s uncomfortable there. Wright? haven’t we screwed up his approach enough, already? I fear too much faith was placed on Delgado’s return as he’d be the perfect solution there, if healthy. Perhaps someone needs to give him a R/T ticket to Lourdes in the next couple of months. if not it’s imperative for the NYM to address this issue, preferably with a big bopping LH Power hitter in the Delgado mode, Dunn?, Fielder? are likely best trade targets.
    to me #4 hitter is a bigger concern than #2sp, one effects 1 out of 5G compared to 5 of 5.
• Anthony December 29, 2009 at 10:22 am

  I agree on the last point, but were not getting Dunn or Fielder in trade, so Delgado is the most likely candidate.
• Mike B. December 29, 2009 at 11:27 am

  I hope they don’t do anything. Save the draft picks and build the farm. They aren’t going to contend anyway. I will not be upset this year, because I have lower expectations. I’m hoping for about a .500 season. Then, in 2011, some of the big guys will be back to form and some of the young guys will be ready, THEN go make a move. I don’t want them to do it just to do it. I’m not in love with Holliday or Bay, both of whom benefitted from hitters parks.
  • NYCDoc December 29, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Well I don’t think the Mets are going to just give up on next year. The team has alot to prove. However, I’m not expecting them to be contenders either considering the moves everyone else in the NL East have made. I’m not much of a fan of Bay either and I would hate to see them get him just to get him. They needed a #2 starter first and foremost and didn’t get one.
    • METS62FAN December 30, 2009 at 10:45 am

      NYC, Halladay is certainly a significant addition Pollanco is a nice addition; but considering they are replacing Lee & Felize, I doubt the ‘net’ effect is as insurmountable as u believe. Atlanta’s loss of Vazquez instead of Lowe is not what I would consider a significant upgrade as Vazquez is being replaced by injury returning Hudson. Once you evaluate the actual NET EFFECTS of these moves their significance tends to pale. While it’s true we didn’t go that 1A route we all anticipated, our rotation, though not as accomplished as it should be can possibly be competitive Vs PHL, Atlanta certainly has the most formidable rotation in the division; but has yet to add significantly to their offense as they’d planned. Melky is not a significant offensive piece to any puzzle, though certainly an upgrade over departed Church or Kelly.
      NY, in my opinion the most significantly improved team in our division is the GNATS. But, who cares?
      I, for one, would certainly nominate Cole Hamels as the most overated player in baseball. he had a magnificient ’08; but sub .500 ’09 on the league championship team! I certainly wouldn’t rate him as a 1A.
• sarge December 29, 2009 at 1:30 pm

  True 62fan, in trying to will the Mets to sign a starter and/or bat, I have neglected to look at the 4 hole. Delgado, as some suggest, hasn’t even started playing in PR and won’t until Jan.2010 and that might be too small of a sample to help Mets. Wow this is a thought but as stated Beltran is not a cleanup hitter and David has thrived in the 3 hole or 5 and just goes to show that despite not having a consistent threat behind him in 09 he still managed to put up some decent numbers though his power went down. Good idea to kick around and should be considered while Mets seek help this off season.
• sarge December 29, 2009 at 3:48 pm

  Well 62fan if the rumors on WFAN are true then Mets have found their #4 hole hitter in Bay and hopefully for the 4 years and not 5. Now Mets can go about signing some depth. Sign any two of the remaining starters out there for 1 year contracts and then let the battle begin in Mar plus hopefully this will give us some depth.
  Just to follow up on your comments about Pelf; I saw an interview with his former Wichita State coach and he was under the impression that Pelf would be the same pitcher in Majors as in college but apparently Peterson and now Warthen have him thinking that he is not that pitcher but a groundball pitcher. Pelf has the ability to throw hard, he has the durable body, throw many innings and I hope that he insists that he be allowed to throw the way he did in college and also K some batters.
  • METS62FAN December 30, 2009 at 8:46 am

    Sarge, I disagree on your perception of Warthen’s influence because in one of his first interviews he signified a willing departure from Petersonization Program, what he said, “I love a high hard one” warmed my heart & I immediatly thought both Pelf & Maine could flourish under this guy. I was certainly taken aback by the comment to Burkhardt; since Peterson had power to approve all franchise pitching coaches in addition to all franchise pitching prospects/teaching programs. In my opinion, it’ll take years to erase what’s turned out to be Lil’Jeffie’s biggest mistake(empowering Peterson with such omnipotence) since Peterson was virtually a “pitching GM” basicly with the power to force Omar to get rid of certain pitching prospects(Bannister,Bell,Lindstrum) as he did in forcing Duquette to deal KaZMIR FOR HIS 10 MIN ‘DIY PROJECT’(ZAMBRANO)
    Furthermore, I believe Pelf’s struggles last season were mainly caused by his transition back, instead of melding his Peterson method & his college approach, he tended to discard the sinker & low strikezone approach esp in tight counts to power hitters like Howard,Utley,Uggla. This is where I believe Schneider’s gamecalling became suspect to both Warthen & Manuel. I particularly remember one such confrontation with Howard, inastead of the sinker I prayed for, it was a slider/souvenier pitch. Maine, who’s suffered most by Petersonization, unfortunatly was injured for most of Warthen’s guidance to date. Maine’s biggest asset is his sneaky naturally rising heater, which when thrown to knees tends to rise to wheelhouse,OUCH!
    For all these reasons, I truly be;lieve Molina is our next “MUST” not for his offense; but for his cathing approach & ability to milk the most out of his pitcher’s repetoire that day. besides, he can threaten Ollie in Spanish, likely scare the sh** out of Ollie for dropping his arm.lol
    I see Bengie as an hispanic Grote, stubborn hard-nosed opiniionated, surly.
    Peterson, also seemed to suck all of the self-confidence out of Pelf & Maine. I also believe Willie’s job was a bone of strong infighting between Omar & Jeff since Sept.’07 with Omar winning in front of Fred until the racial bias interview given by Willie. That tilted the Fredster toward Jeff; but “Omar’s consolation prize was Jeff’s pitching czar, Peterson. ake Omar’s “pound of flesh” if not under”orders from vengedul Jeff, why else would Omar wait until the team left town requiring Omar to have to fly to la & retn to NY back to basck, nearly 7 hrs in air. No, a petty Jeff, once he was given Willie’s scalp, ordered it done immediatly. Omar got to change the flooring from teak to tile. lmao. Note there haven’t been any further needless trading of promising pitching prospects since.
  • METS62FAN December 30, 2009 at 10:15 am

    Sarge, I don’t know if Bay is capable of significance as a #4; but in case that’s our only option, I’d propose the following lineup assuming we eventually ink Molina:
    Reyes
    Beltran
    Murphy
    Bay
    Wright
    Francoeur
    Molina
    Castillo
    I believe, that Castillo is a perfect #2 hitter on any team without a premiere stolen base threat batting leadoff. he’s wasting an out by bunting to adbvance Reyes and he’s the least capable to take full advantage of the fastball,s Reyes on base, provides. therefore, Beltran, who devours heaters is best #2 option, in my opinion. Castillo #8 can advance Molina late for a ph in place of pitcher. Hell it’s likely only way Molina gets to 2b(lol).