Comments on: Mets Buzz: Bay Today? National Treasure? Rising Son? http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:16:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35520 METS62FAN Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:02:24 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35520 jdon, re-read what u wrote because I want to use it as a perfect example of our biggest problem as fans. we lump every mistake together regardless of ownership, frontoffice,etc. we fail to separate & blur the lines. there are still people complaining about Seaver,Ryan,Kazmir as if they happened ubnder this owner & this gm combo! Perhaps if they had the ability to stop thinking in such groupthink we could actually start to have non-emotional on-point debates. So far, we've had little by way of missed F/A targets(Delgado) is the only tatrget Omar missed on & despite rectifying it 1 yr later for less $ some people still are critical of Omar for that. BTW Phillips owned A-Rod,VLAD failure to compete & stand by posture. It's certainly important to try not to force our personal choices upon the evaluation of mngt. Acoording to Jon Heyman Lacxkey was part of solution B and as such should not have been Omar's top priority. He was the top priority for many nym fans, myself included; but I can't fault Omar if Lackey is signed to a deal outside our franchise's value system five years for pitchers over 30 is not within the realm of nym values. perhaps, it was knowing that Lackey required 5y that demoted him to PLAN B. We know Holliday's 100M prictag is why he's PLAN C. ALL in ALL over the past few yrs, since his hiring in '05, Omar has been singularly successful in "getting" his man within reason. I discount Lowe as a miss since he signed one of those "INSANE TO OUTBID" deals to go beyond 4/60 would've been unforgivable for Lowe.It would also be an absurd initial offer when none other existed, as ATL has found out 4/60 too rich for performance by a non-ace. jdon, re-read what u wrote because I want to use it as a perfect example of our biggest problem as fans. we lump every mistake together regardless of ownership, frontoffice,etc. we fail to separate & blur the lines. there are still people complaining about Seaver,Ryan,Kazmir as if they happened ubnder this owner & this gm combo! Perhaps if they had the ability to stop thinking in such groupthink we could actually start to have non-emotional on-point debates. So far, we’ve had little by way of missed F/A targets(Delgado) is the only tatrget Omar missed on & despite rectifying it 1 yr later for less $ some people still are critical of Omar for that. BTW Phillips owned A-Rod,VLAD failure to compete & stand by posture.
It’s certainly important to try not to force our personal choices upon the evaluation of mngt. Acoording to Jon Heyman Lacxkey was part of solution B and as such should not have been Omar’s top priority. He was the top priority for many nym fans, myself included; but I can’t fault Omar if Lackey is signed to a deal outside our franchise’s value system five years for pitchers over 30 is not within the realm of nym values. perhaps, it was knowing that Lackey required 5y that demoted him to
PLAN B. We know Holliday’s 100M prictag is why he’s PLAN C. ALL in ALL over the past few yrs, since his hiring in ’05, Omar has been singularly successful in “getting” his man within reason. I discount Lowe as a miss since he signed one of those “INSANE TO OUTBID” deals to go beyond 4/60 would’ve been unforgivable for Lowe.It would also be an absurd initial offer when none other existed, as ATL has found out 4/60 too rich for performance by a non-ace.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35519 METS62FAN Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:41:19 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35519 TEAMS WHO ACTUALLY HAVE NETWORKS & FANS CHEERRING WHEN THEY DO IT, NOT HALF CLAMORING & HALF SCREAMING "PAID TOO MUCH". JDON WE BOTH KNOW THAT'S EXActly what will happen dhould they ink bay for 5 & bengie for 3 regardless of how badly the org believes they're needed! Wait, don't tell me,. you just read what i wroye re. 5 & 3 yS & already thinking neg thoughts. GOTCHA!LMAO! TEAMS WHO ACTUALLY HAVE NETWORKS & FANS CHEERRING WHEN THEY DO IT, NOT HALF CLAMORING & HALF SCREAMING “PAID TOO MUCH”. JDON WE BOTH KNOW THAT’S EXActly what will happen dhould they ink bay for 5 & bengie for 3 regardless of how badly the org believes they’re needed! Wait, don’t tell me,. you just read what i wroye re. 5 & 3 yS & already thinking neg thoughts. GOTCHA!LMAO!

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35481 jdon Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:01:47 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35481 The yankees target someone and they make sure they get him quickly. see? teams like the red sox and the yanks, teams who win. The yankees target someone and they make sure they get him quickly. see? teams like the red sox and the yanks, teams who win.

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35480 jdon Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:59:56 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35480 My reference was to the Red Sox swooping in and signing someone we want (Lackey). We did not swoop on Ollie. That dragged on and on and we still overpaid with no competition. The mets have slept on a lot of players over the years. If you want someone, and I do not want Bay, but if they want him, make sure you get him. My reference was to the Red Sox swooping in and signing someone we want (Lackey). We did not swoop on Ollie. That dragged on and on and we still overpaid with no competition. The mets have slept on a lot of players over the years. If you want someone, and I do not want Bay, but if they want him, make sure you get him.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35471 METS62FAN Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:28:48 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35471 jdon, who's swooping? According to most reputable sources. LAA is out by inking Matsui, SEA is out by getting Bradley. BOS out by securing Cammy. Uless u fear the Swallows or Yam. Giants, Who's swooping? Aren't u one of the major criticizer's of signing Perez? When we ascertained he was our #1 choice? We swooped fearing the invisible mystery team. Can we al least try for some consistant thought here? jdon, who’s swooping? According to most reputable sources. LAA is out by inking Matsui, SEA is out by getting Bradley. BOS out by securing Cammy. Uless u fear the Swallows or Yam. Giants, Who’s swooping? Aren’t u one of the major criticizer’s of signing Perez? When we ascertained he was our #1 choice? We swooped fearing the invisible mystery team. Can we al least try for some consistant thought here?

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35467 METS62FAN Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:02:51 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35467 Alex, point of perspective, with lowe off the table for an unbeatable contract term/price; considering the positive effect Warthen's mechanical alterations had on Perez' last couple of starts. 3/36 was relatively affordable compared to what alternatives Wolf, Garland, Sheets were demanding at the time, with Perez & Mets "Out of the MKT" the prices significantly dropped on the remaining. NO PEREZ SIGNING, NO DROP IN DEMANDS. What if Perez had signed a 2y/20m offer from team x, used the Warthen changes, & had flourished. while exhibiting patience, Omar walked into ST without a proven mlb sp & a hole in the rotation? While we'll never know what Perez may have accomplished without discarding the Warthen changes in the WBC or hadn't been overtaxed, abused & injured by TEAM MEXICO. Perhaps my perspective is different since I usually hear the opponent's broadcast team describing how uncomfortable their team is facing Perez, as opposed to SNY shills condemning his volotility & unreliability. Instead of expecting overwelming "stuff" usually reserved for frontend competitors, perhaps comparing Ollie to backenders everywhere. Here's the rub fellow Met fans. Paychecks have no regard of talent/ability. Carlos Beltran, when we signed him, was a career .270ish hitter capable of 20-30 bombs & 20+ SB. We sign him in a highly contested contract battle for megastar bucks & expect megastar performances. BTW, life doesn't play out that way. Regardless of your job title, your salary increase, raise, does not necessarily translate into higher production, more responsibilities maybe; but not necessarily higher production. Why do we expect it to change on a ballfield? Is the opposing pitcher going to think, "this guy's making 20m so I better throw him a pitch he can handle better? (lol) Alex, point of perspective, with lowe off the table for an unbeatable contract term/price; considering the positive effect Warthen’s mechanical alterations had on Perez’ last couple of starts. 3/36 was relatively affordable compared to what alternatives Wolf, Garland, Sheets were demanding at the time, with Perez & Mets “Out of the MKT” the prices significantly dropped on the remaining. NO PEREZ SIGNING, NO DROP IN DEMANDS. What if Perez had signed a 2y/20m offer from team x, used the Warthen changes, & had flourished. while exhibiting patience, Omar walked into ST without a proven mlb sp & a hole in the rotation?
While we’ll never know what Perez may have accomplished without discarding the Warthen changes in the WBC or hadn’t been overtaxed, abused & injured by TEAM MEXICO.
Perhaps my perspective is different since I usually hear the opponent’s broadcast team describing how uncomfortable their team is facing Perez, as opposed to SNY shills condemning his volotility & unreliability. Instead of expecting overwelming “stuff” usually reserved for frontend competitors, perhaps comparing Ollie to backenders everywhere. Here’s the rub fellow Met fans. Paychecks have no regard of talent/ability. Carlos Beltran, when we signed him, was a career .270ish hitter capable of 20-30 bombs & 20+ SB. We sign him in a highly contested contract battle for megastar bucks & expect megastar performances. BTW, life doesn’t play out that way. Regardless of your job title, your salary increase, raise, does not necessarily translate into higher production, more responsibilities maybe; but not necessarily higher production. Why do we expect it to change on a ballfield? Is the opposing pitcher going to think, “this guy’s making 20m so I better throw him a pitch he can handle better? (lol)

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35464 METS62FAN Sun, 20 Dec 2009 15:06:14 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35464 jdon, that much? the price is the price. i recall the simple words attributed to the late JP Getty," if u have to ask the price, you can't afford it" While most baseball salaries are rediculous, see $400,000 minimum wage @ mlb level. exterapolate from there & it's equally absurd on every player not destined for Cooperstown. Compared to Holiday's 8y/120m on the table it's a valuable offer if we get it done for around 5/75 or 4/65. Is Bay going to be a 'Core Piece"? No, very doubtful. Can he be a Werth type contributor? quite possibly. Personally I see Bay+ Francoeur = Werth + Ibanez. Which is all i really need him to be. jdon, that much? the price is the price. i recall the simple words attributed to the late JP Getty,” if u have to ask the price, you can’t afford it” While most baseball salaries are rediculous, see $400,000 minimum wage @ mlb level. exterapolate from there & it’s equally absurd on every player not destined for Cooperstown. Compared to Holiday’s 8y/120m on the table it’s a valuable offer if we get it done for around 5/75 or 4/65. Is Bay going to be a ‘Core Piece”? No, very doubtful. Can he be a Werth type contributor? quite possibly. Personally I see Bay+ Francoeur = Werth + Ibanez. Which is all i really need him to be.

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35396 jdon Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:57:48 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35396 Agreed. The mets had a walk monopoly last year and were supposed to be trying to get away from that. more talk. I just hope they have really scouted this guy. They let bruce wilpon scout matsui and told us he was one of the best players in the world. as for bay, f they sign him he will make them better. I am just not sure he is worth that much. Agreed. The mets had a walk monopoly last year and were supposed to be trying to get away from that. more talk. I just hope they have really scouted this guy. They let bruce wilpon scout matsui and told us he was one of the best players in the world. as for bay, f they sign him he will make them better. I am just not sure he is worth that much.

]]> By: sarge http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35357 sarge Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:40:23 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35357 Why go after McDougal when he has control problems? The Japanes relief pitcher Mets just signed has had some control problems too. How many pitchers, especially relief ones, that have control problems do we need? Imagine bringing him in after Ollie walks the park, then Iggy or McDougal do the same? We We need pitchers and a pitching coach that can help the young guys focus on the strike zone and not have to worry about a relief pitcher with issues. I say wait on Bay cause if he gets a better deal then he will come back to Mets so have a little patience and let the market come to you. Why go after McDougal when he has control problems? The Japanes relief pitcher Mets just signed has had some control problems too. How many pitchers, especially relief ones, that have control problems do we need?
Imagine bringing him in after Ollie walks the park, then Iggy or McDougal do the same? We
We need pitchers and a pitching coach that can help the young guys focus on the strike zone and not have to worry about a relief pitcher with issues.
I say wait on Bay cause if he gets a better deal then he will come back to Mets so have a little patience and let the market come to you.

]]> By: ALEX24 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35335 ALEX24 Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:41:38 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35335 The thing is we wouldn't want minaya to make a mistake and just sign someone for the heck of the fans.. He's being preach patient now, which is something he should've did wit castillo, and now bay.. Small contracts r diff, the cora thing while it bother me is not a big deal compare to perez' n castillos's deal.. The thing is we wouldn’t want minaya to make a mistake and just sign someone for the heck of the fans.. He’s being preach patient now, which is something he should’ve did wit castillo, and now bay.. Small contracts r diff, the cora thing while it bother me is not a big deal compare to perez’ n castillos’s deal..

]]> By: Mets faithful http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35332 Mets faithful Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:54:32 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35332 Mets had the same problem with Vlad a couple years ago. They had a need but wanted to low-ball the man to get him on the cheap. He signed with the Angels leaving the Mets holding the bag. Mets had the same problem with Vlad a couple years ago. They had a need but wanted to low-ball the man to get him on the cheap. He signed with the Angels leaving the Mets holding the bag.

]]> By: D.C. http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35331 D.C. Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:53:58 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35331 What are you waiting for Minaya? Go get'em. Don't just sat there and wait for them to come to you. You already lost Lackey and Halladay in one day and the Mets faithful is losing patience pretty quick. What are you waiting for Minaya? Go get’em. Don’t just sat there and wait for them to come to you. You already lost Lackey and Halladay in one day and the Mets faithful is losing patience pretty quick.

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35325 jdon Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:40:06 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35325 What is interesting is the mets are trying to get him cheap. Just like they took their time because they wanted to negotiate with Lackey. The teams that swoop in always nail the mets. I am not the biggest Bay fan but if they really want him, they should do the swooping. What is interesting is the mets are trying to get him cheap. Just like they took their time because they wanted to negotiate with Lackey. The teams that swoop in always nail the mets. I am not the biggest Bay fan but if they really want him, they should do the swooping.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35322 METS62FAN Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:57:07 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35322 tommy, here's the problem; stl has an 8y/120m offer on holliday's plate, while bay for 5/70-75m isn't as onerous. range? no problem with beltran covering lcf instead of both rcf & lcf. don't know if adam rubin is grinding that revenge ax or not; but he's the only one reporting "sticking to any guns" both si's heyman & mlbn are reporting met's indicated willingness for 5y at less per than the 4/65 orig one. i'm still not a holliday fan as looking at his lack of production in oak combined with some scarey def in col. i'd prefer returning bay to the franchise that once owned his contract(nym). tommy, here’s the problem; stl has an 8y/120m offer on holliday’s plate, while bay for 5/70-75m isn’t as onerous. range? no problem with beltran covering lcf instead of both rcf & lcf. don’t know if adam rubin is grinding that revenge ax or not; but he’s the only one reporting “sticking to any guns” both si’s heyman & mlbn are reporting met’s indicated willingness for 5y at less per than the 4/65 orig one. i’m still not a holliday fan as looking at his lack of production in oak combined with some scarey def in col. i’d prefer returning bay to the franchise that once owned his contract(nym).

]]> By: tomterif http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35321 tomterif Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:47:41 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35321 No way, Bay. No 5 years, Omar. If someone else offer 5, more power to them. We'll trade with Cincy for Phillips and find someone to platoon in left with Pagan. And no three years for Molina, either. The madness has to stop. No way, Bay. No 5 years, Omar. If someone else offer 5, more power to them. We’ll trade with Cincy for Phillips and find someone to platoon in left with Pagan. And no three years for Molina, either. The madness has to stop.

]]> By: theonlymaskman http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35317 theonlymaskman Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:47:25 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35317 At this point, we sorely need one of them and with the Cards bidding so heavily for Holliday, it is doubtful we can get him. So we really need to be careful that the Yanks, Angels or Mariners do not swoop in and take Bay before Omar even becomes aware of it. Omar, stay alert and get a key contract signed! At this point, we sorely need one of them and with the Cards bidding so heavily for Holliday, it is doubtful we can get him. So we really need to be careful that the Yanks, Angels or Mariners do not swoop in and take Bay before Omar even becomes aware of it. Omar, stay alert and get a key contract signed!

]]> By: Tommy2cat http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35315 Tommy2cat Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:52:20 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35315 I'd pursue Holliday almost to the exclusion of Bay. I have concerns that Bay's bat speed will slow in years 3-5 of his contract. He had a high strikeout total last year. He hit .267 in the AL, albeit with solid power numbers. Holliday, by contrast, is younger and more youthful than Bay, by which I mean he is more athletic and likely to remain close to his peak performance throughout the length of his contract. I see Holliday being a better fit in the clubhouse with Wright & Francouer as he is closer in age. I wouldn't be unhappy if we signed Jason Bay. I would be ecstatic if we signed Matt Holliday. That's the difference. I’d pursue Holliday almost to the exclusion of Bay. I have concerns that Bay’s bat speed will slow in years 3-5 of his contract. He had a high strikeout total last year. He hit .267 in the AL, albeit with solid power numbers.

Holliday, by contrast, is younger and more youthful than Bay, by which I mean he is more athletic and likely to remain close to his peak performance throughout the length of his contract. I see Holliday being a better fit in the clubhouse with Wright & Francouer as he is closer in age.

I wouldn’t be unhappy if we signed Jason Bay. I would be ecstatic if we signed Matt Holliday. That’s the difference.

]]> By: sixxis http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35314 sixxis Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:49:11 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35314 Jason Bay is exactly what the Mets need, A slugger!, a batter who you want to see up at the plate with the game on the line, who else on this team falls into that category? Really? And although he may not get to balls other fielders can, I don't remember Bay losing games for his teams with his glove. Jason Bay is exactly what the Mets need, A slugger!, a batter who you want to see up at the plate with the game on the line, who else on this team falls into that category? Really? And although he may not get to balls other fielders can, I don’t remember Bay losing games for his teams with his glove.

]]> By: Shamik http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35312 Shamik Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:46:25 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35312 Remember, the Mets were 2nd in the Dice-K bidding and it took a ridiculous bid from the Sox to top us. I wouldn't count the Mets out on Chapman. Remember, the Mets were 2nd in the Dice-K bidding and it took a ridiculous bid from the Sox to top us. I wouldn’t count the Mets out on Chapman.

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/latest-mets-buzz-bay-today-national-treasure-rising-son.html#comment-35310 jdon Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:53:08 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=17610#comment-35310 I do not think bay is a big time player. He wants big time money. If Bay keeps us from oging after somebody better at the trade deadline or after the season then I am against it. I know nothing about the Japanese pither. I hope the mets know more about him than they did about Kaz. mcDougal throws hard. They might be planniong to trade Parnell if they want to bring him in. I do not think bay is a big time player. He wants big time money. If Bay keeps us from oging after somebody better at the trade deadline or after the season then I am against it. I know nothing about the Japanese pither. I hope the mets know more about him than they did about Kaz. mcDougal throws hard. They might be planniong to trade Parnell if they want to bring him in.

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