2
2009
Josh Thole Is Giving Me Second Thoughts On Bengie Molina
An article by 
I’m really starting to have second thoughts about the Mets going after free agent catcher Bengie Molina. I know how strongly I have advocated for Molina in the last two months, but am becoming more and more taken with Josh Thole as he toils away in Winter Ball with the hopes of impressing Mets brass and potentially earning a spot on the big league roster next season.
Thole continues to wield a hot bat in Venezuela and is leading the league with a .391 batting average. In 133 at-bats he has 17 extra-base hits including three home runs, and 24 RBI. He has almost twice as many walks (24) as he does strikeouts (13), and that gives him a sizzling .488 on-base percentage. His 1.059 OPS leads the league as well.
If not for the fact that he might be a defensive liability, the lefthanded hitting Thole is probably a better offensive option than all of the other free agent catchers that are currently being considered by the Mets.
While Thole may not possess the power of Bengie Molina right now, you can make a good argument that he is a better pure hitter and can get on base at a much better rate than Molina. Plus, Thole wouldn’t clog the basepaths like the lead-footed Molina would as the Mets catcher of the future above average speed for a catcher.
As a southpaw, Thole would be perfectly suited for a platoon with the righthanded Omir Santos.
Minor league scouts and coaches have been impressed with how quickly Thole has adapted behind the plate. He has come a long way defensively when you consider that he has only been playing the position for barely two years.
The good news on the defensive front is that Thole is extremely dedicated to improving at his new position, and he believes that he will ultimately be a solid defensive catcher.
His defensive improvement in Venezuela has already drawn much attention. In fact, I spoke to one of our contacts who covers the Venezualan League in the winter, and yesterday he told me that Thole looks as comfortable behind the plate as any of the other catchers in the league, and that if he is a defensive liability it’s news to him.
That bit of good news is not at all surprising regarding Thole who is a fierce competitor on the field.
I have a suspicious feeling that Molina will probably be looking for a 2-3 year deal this winter. With Omir Santos already settled in as the backup catcher, it may be unwise to block Josh Thole who could be ready to contribute by the All Star break if not sooner.
He certainly will not solve the team’s shortage of homerun power, but he has a swing that is well suited for Citi Field and he should produce a fair share of doubles along with 5-6 home runs. I believe he could have a season very similar to the one Paul Lo Duca produced for the Mets in 2006.
When I consider the other very pricey catching options out there, I can’t help asking myself this one important question:
Are any of those expensive catching options that much better than Josh Thole?
The answer I keep telling myself is no.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
Went to my first Mets game, a Mayors Trophy game at Shea, in '73. We beat the Yankees 8-4 and I was hooked. I marched in two Banner Day parades, and before the Grand Slam single, there was the "Hendu Can Do" grand slam - I was there. I've collected Mets memorabilia all my life and started Mets Merized Online to feed my addiction.
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I think the only thing keeping Thole off the roster this year is his defense. He showed us he can hit at the big league level. But I don’t care how much his defense has improved in Venezuela, I still would keep him in AAA to continue to work on his defense, and only call him up in September, unless they need him sooner due to injury. But I think the more time he can spend working on his defense in the minors, the better.
That’s why you only want to sign another catcher to a one year contract. Put offers out to Molina, Barajas, Olivo and whoever else and take the first one who agrees to a one year deal.
Molina, Barajas, Torrealba, etc. aren’t going to take one year deals.
I haven’t seen a lot of Thole at the minor league level, but the “professional type hitter, puts the ball in play, not a lot of power” scouting report sounds an awful lot like Daniel Murphy.
Let Thole start the year at AAA, and if he rakes into late May or June, then call him up.
But he should not leave camp as the starting catcher. Young catchers very rarely transition quickly into good regular MLB catchers.
Thole should play a season in AAA before joining the regular roster. He looks good, but I don’t think he’s quite ready to be full-time, and sitting on the bench won’t help his development.
A one-year contract to a free agent is really the only sensible solution. But then, the team is often not sensible.
He needs to play in AAA. He’s still very raw and the Venezuelan league is a hitter’s paradise. Fernando Martinez tore it up in 2008, and looked terribly overmatched in the majors. We can ill afford two major league inexperienced catchers at the big league level, especially without a catching coach – Sandy Alomar jr is back with Cleveland. We need a vet catcher and Thole needs to prove himself in AAA on both sides of the ball.
Once big league pitchers get wind of Thole weaknesses, he’s likley to encounter difficulty given he has slap hitter wrist action. What happens when they start pitching him up and in? Let him work it out in AAA and get a vet catcher to pair with Santos so he can learn as well. Molina in that sense, makes lots of sense and could help both catchers during spring training. When Thole’s ready, he’ll get his chance.
he takes thee ‘up & in’ pitches for balls…the kid’s a very patient hitter. One of the reasons why i am very confident he’ll be a ssuperior hitter in the Bigs for a lot of years. He only gets better from here.
I agree with you all.Let Thole play in Buffalo with Davis Tejada and Martinez.Lets see where 2010 takes Met players Castillo,Murphy and Pagan.For example Murphy continues to get better and has a good year(285,18,80)Maybe he stays at 1st and you let Davis shag flies.hopefully Martinez gets 500abs and proves he is for real(300,25,85)Then he can be ready.With Castillo being signed for 2 more years it gives the METS time to let Tejada and Havens time to develop.But atleast the future is looking alittle better.
__________________Addressing the catcher position is pointless makework. It will automatically be upgraded by the absence of Schneider, one of the worst players in the major leagues. Santos and Thole are adequate replacements. The sudden desperation to upgrade catcher, and second base for that matter (even though O Hudson isn’t really an upgrade over Castillo), is typical of the Mets. They’re focusing on a non-problem and avoiding the real problems — outfield and starting pitching.
Of course, the core problem is internal player development and talent evaluation at every level. But they have no idea how to address that.
Where does it say this what the team is focusing on – I thought this was just a thread and people putting their thoughts on paper – not sure its sanctioned by the Mets.
I’m not basing it on this thread but instead media reports of the Mets wanting to take care of their catcher and second base issues before addressing outfield and pitcher. Now, you can argue that those are wrong — and maybe they are. But my response, and I’m sure this thread itself, was based on that.
Gotcha – ok. I just think its still way too early to know for sure, nothing has been done at all, and we all know the accuracy of our wonderful media.
Thole has to start the season in AAA, but I agree with Joe that he will be ready by the All Star break. Barajas and Molina WILL command multi year deals and it would be crazy to get locked into them with Thole waiting in the wings. I say bring back Castro for a few months then call up Thole in July and hit the auto pilot.
Castro and Manual dont like each other.Remember Santos’s pitch hitting for Castro.
Give our young guys a chance. I think having a younger, hungrier, motivated player is better than the guy who comes in with a bloated contract and doesnt give a 100%. Besides, with so many holes in our team, the desperate need for pitching/LF outweighs our need to get someone better than a Murphy, who really was coming off a rookie year on a bad team.
Look at these free agent catchers:
Eliezer Alfonzo (31)
Brad Ausmus (41)
Paul Bako (38)
Rod Barajas (34) – Type B
Josh Bard (32)
Michael Barrett (33)
Henry Blanco (38)
Ramon Castro (34)
Chris Coste (37)
Toby Hall (34)
Jason Kendall (36) – Type B
Jason LaRue (36)
Chad Moeller (35)
Bengie Molina (35) – Type A
Jose Molina (35)
Miguel Olivo (31) – Type B
Mike Redmond (39)
Ivan Rodriguez (38) – Type B
Brian Schneider (33)
Yorvit Torrealba (31) – Type B
Matt Treanor (34)
Javier Valentin (34)
Gregg Zaun (39) – Type B
Of those players, I think we should go after Jason Kendall or Jose Molina. Both are superior defensive catchers and will sign a 1 yr deal. That will give Thole some more time to ripen before comming up for good.
CONSIDERING SANDY Jr. IS GONE!
WHY IS IT THAT FEW CREDIT A CATCHER’S ABILITY TO USE HIS KNOWLEDGE & EXPERIENCE IN GUIDING HIS BATTERYMATE THROUGH A TOUGH SITUATION OR CHALLENGING PART OF THE ORDER? WHILE WE MAY BE CONTENT IN OUR TEAM’S TAKING YRS TO HEIGHTEN ROI BY INCREASED POST ATTENDANCE SHARES. I DOUBT VERY MUCH THE WILPON’S HAVE TIME AS AN ASSET ON THEIR BALANCE SHEET.
GOING INTO A SEASON WITH LESS THAN 1 FULL SEASON’S EXPERIENCE ON THE ROSTER @ C CERTAINLY ISN’T GOOD PLANNING. JUST AS MANY FEEL THE JETS MADSE A HUGE MISTAKE IN NOT SECURING A “GUIDE/MENTOR” FOR SANCHEZ, THE SAME CAN BE SAID IN MY OPINION Re. THE CATCHING POSITION IN MLB ESP WHEN YOUR ROTATION LACKS A TON OF EXPERIENCE AGAINST THE OPPOSING ROSTERS. AT THIS MOMENT, THE MOST EXPERIENCED NL SP IN OUR ROTATION HAS YET TO BE SECURED. A GUIDE OF MOLINA’S CALIBER FAR OUTWEIGHS THE MIDDLIN VALUE MONETARILY HE’D COMMAND AS WELL AS ALL THIS BS ABOUT CLOGGING BASES. HE’S LIKELY TO BAT 8th & EVEN A TURTLE CAN GET SAC BUNTED BY THE PITCHER. ASSUNMING THAT IF HE’S ALREADY ON SECOND, HOW MUCH IS HE CLOGGING IT BEFORE THE TOP OF ORDER COMES UP? NEGLIGIBLE IN MU OPINION. GIVE ME THE EXPERIENCED LEADERSHIP BEHIND THE PLATE ANYTIME. SANTOS IS BARELY MORE THAN A ROOKIE, THOLE IS A NEOPHYTE AT THE POSITION & WILL HAVE ALL HE CAN HANDLE DEFENSIVLY MINIMIZING THE PASSEDBALLS. I TRULY BELIEVE MOLINA CAN BE SECURED FOR 2Y/12M AND AT THAT RATE WHY NOT. MORE TO GAIN THAN TO LOSE. IF STILL PURSUING LACKEY, HAVING AN EXPERIENCED BACKSTOP HE’S FAMILIAR WITH MAY BE A TIE-BREAKER. WORTH THE SHOT.THEN AGAIN, HE MAY ACTUALLY HATE MOLINA; I DON’T KNOW THAT’S OMAR’S JOB TO FIND OUT, PERHAPS FROM K-ROD?
SORRY, I DON’T SEE THE DOWNSIDE U CITE AS ALL THAT REKLATIVE. IF THEY BASTTED HIM NEAR TOP OF ORDER, YOUR POINT WOULD BE MORE RELAVANT. 2Y IS PERFECT FIT. FIRST YR MOLINA CARRIES PREPONDERANCE OF RESPONSIBILITY WITH ADDITION OF MENTORING A SEPT CALLUP THOLE. SHOULD THOLE STUB HIS TOE AND NOT BE READY FOR ’11, THERE’S INSURANCE. THE ONLY SURE THING IN BASEBALL AT THIS LEVEL IS THE VARIABILITY OF PROSPECTS. EVEN THE MOST TOUTED ONES. SANTANA STILL ONLY HAS ONE COMPLETE FULL 30+GS NL SEASON. THE REMAINDER OF THE ROTATION IS SIMILARLY INEXPERIENCED AS EVEN A LACKEY WILL BE. THERE IS A LOT OF RELATIVE INEXPERIENCE ON THE PITCHING STAFF. AN EXPERIECED CATCHER CAN ONLY HELP.
It’s funny you wrote this Joe because I’ve been rethinking this for awhile too. If….IF this kid continues to tear it up in winter ball and then tears it up in spring training and his defense continues to improve then he won’t be going to AAA at all, he’ll be going north with the team.
At this rate he’d be better than Paul Loduca.
In this case maybe signing a veteran like Ivan Rodgriguez to a cheaper contract just to be around as a mentor-type and platoon as a righty with Omir could help?
It’s not just funny, it’s pretty freaking hilarious. Winter stats dont mean crap, and Thole didnt impress me one bit last season when he got called up. I wish everybody would calm down and realize we need to find a better catcher than Thole, Omir or anyone else the Mets have. I’m not saying we need Molina because he’s not the answer, but maybe trade for a guy like Ryan Doumit or Russ Martin from the Dodgers..
[...] He $12 mill Worth of Bad On Defense?? Josh Thole Is Giving Me Second Thoughts On Bengie Molina | Mets Merized Online Thole seems to bring a whole lot to the game. Why don't they bring in Jamie Quirk or Ted Simmons [...]
If the Mets can sign either Molina, Barajas, Olivo to one year deals, I would definitely sign one of the above, and put Thole in AAA. However, if it’s clear that these above catchers are looking for multi-year deals, if I were Omar Minaya I would not sign them. All these players are old and do not deserve 2 year deals. Instead I would keep Thole in the majors and at first have him be the starter, and Santos the backup. At this point of his career he needs to play everyday. If Thole has trouble hitting against LHP, then that’s where I would either demote him, or this is the plan I prefer, the Mets should start a catching platoon with Thole and Santos.
Thole had a higher OPS than Molina last year. No way is Molina (and his league leading % of swinging at balls outside the zone) worth even close to what Minaya wants to give him.
…if the Mets add an excellent to good LF (Holliday/Crawford/Pierre), trade Castillo, sign Figgins (who unlike Hudson, is far better than Castillo), maybe find a RH bat to pair wtih Murphy at 1B…we can go with Santos/Thole at catcher. NP.
Thole has 570 total abs inc, minors, Majors and WL. In spite of his maybe being the answer to our catching future and present I feel he needs at least another 300-400 abs in minor/winter league to become a better hitter and catcher.
Nothing can replace game experience and I would rather he build up his confidence as a hitter that catches in a low pressure spot like minors instead of a team that is pressing after last year to have a better year and team and this will press on him. He has shown that he can handle NY so let him get his at bats and then bring him up at the All-Star break or if a catcher gets hurt. Let him develop, don’t rush him for the sake of 2010 and forget about the possibility that he and Santos can be our backstops for the next 5 years at least.
I am with you metsfanforever, except that Thole needs more abs in minors first to make him more seasoned.
Sign a vet like Blanco to a 1 year deal with a team option for 2011 cause I am not sold on an catcher, Molina, who has caught a lot of games and his legs cannot continue to hold up, Alou come to mind? Barrajas yes if he accepts a 1 year with a team option for 2011. Omar needs to allow the players that can contribute this year and next, Davis, Reese Haven, Holt maybe, to get their at-bats and innings and then be part of the new core for the Mets and their fans.
Imagine that a home grown core that can win titles for you, Yankees, Twins, Braves, come to mind. Please let us consider the future not just next year.
Sarge, you make a good point. And looks like Omar may be listeningto ya, with this Chris Coste move. i think Santos may go in a package for a relatively big name. Then we sign Barajas for 2 years. Thole gets seasoningthis year, and is ready end of this year and in 2011.
Pelfrey, Santos, Martinez for Carl Crawford is my dream. Don’t spoil it. Omar’s planning something for next week.
you and Sarge are making excellent points.But what happens to the pitching staff.You have left straightened out and catcher,which i like the upgrades.Are you also thinking the Mets are going to sign Lackey and Wolf-Piniero-Marquis????????Because i could handle that,im with you Omar has something up his sleeve.It will come as a surprise,just like last years 3 team trade,he can be creative?Who knows maybe the JAYS want Thole-Parnell-Tejada??
Unless he gets rolled up in a trade, Thole will be the starting cather for the Mets within a year at most. There is no need to sign any catcher, Molina included, who is looking for more than a 1 yr contract. Molina does not fit on this team.
I hear everyone’s arguments and agree that it won’t hurt keeping him in minors as a precaution–but do think people make his defense more of a problem than it truly is. Was his defense so bad that he needs to start in AAA? I just don’t understand why he can’t be with the big club on opening day.