Comments on: Dan Warthen Blames Mets Catchers For 2009 Pitching Woes http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes Sat, 26 May 2012 01:32:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-34023 METS62FAN Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:35:18 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-34023 HEY, 64, NEXT TIME U GO IN TO BUY A CAR, WHY NOT TELL THE SALESMAN HOE DESPERATE U ARE FOR ONE IN THE VERY FIRSTR SENTENCE. U THINK DEALING CASTILLO AEWAY IS TOUGH NOW, TRY DOING IT AFTER U'VE SIGNED HIS REPLACEMENT! THERE IS NO HIGHER PRICE THAN WHEN THE SALESMAN KNOWS YOU'RE DESPERATION. THUS, WHEN WE WERE GUTTED BY INJURIESM, THE REPLACEMENT COSTS TO US WERE GREATER SINCE THERE IS NO MERCY OR CRYING IN BASEBALL. RIVASL GMs ARE OUT TO GET YOUR BEST FOR THEIR WORST. IF THEY BELIEVE U HAVE TO HAVE THEIR WORST THEY'LL INSIST UPON MORE OF YOUR BEST. JUST AS BORAS KNEW HOW MUCH NYM HAD TO SPEND FOR A SP FROM THE LOWE OFFER, HE ALSO KNEW ALL THAT WAS LEFT WAS WOLF, GARLAND & SHEETS. NO SUREFIRE GUARANTEED BETTER ALTERNATIVES! HEY, 64, NEXT TIME U GO IN TO BUY A CAR, WHY NOT TELL THE SALESMAN HOE DESPERATE U ARE FOR ONE IN THE VERY FIRSTR SENTENCE. U THINK DEALING CASTILLO AEWAY IS TOUGH NOW, TRY DOING IT AFTER U’VE SIGNED HIS REPLACEMENT! THERE IS NO HIGHER PRICE THAN WHEN THE SALESMAN KNOWS YOU’RE DESPERATION. THUS, WHEN WE WERE GUTTED BY INJURIESM, THE REPLACEMENT COSTS TO US WERE GREATER SINCE THERE IS NO MERCY OR CRYING IN BASEBALL. RIVASL GMs ARE OUT TO GET YOUR BEST FOR THEIR WORST. IF THEY BELIEVE U HAVE TO HAVE THEIR WORST THEY’LL INSIST UPON MORE OF YOUR BEST. JUST AS BORAS KNEW HOW MUCH NYM HAD TO SPEND FOR A SP FROM THE LOWE OFFER, HE ALSO KNEW ALL THAT WAS LEFT WAS WOLF, GARLAND & SHEETS. NO SUREFIRE GUARANTEED BETTER ALTERNATIVES!

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33918 jdon Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:28:12 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33918 Good point about Santos' trade value. This is the same management that blamed OTHER TEAM's DOCTORS for their injury fiascos. I am sick of Warthen. I am sick of seeing Pelfrey try something new every second start. Joel Sherman, who I enjoy reading but seems to be wrong a lot, said in the Post today that Pelfrey ain't too bright. At least baseball/pitching wise. Does it make sense to have him constantly doing different things? Particularly since he seems to blow up when he goes 2-0 on ahitter? I do think he has a point today. He recommended the mets hold the fort this year and try to save money for draft picks and signings in 2011. I happen to think they will try to make a splash this year, and sign someone long term they will regret having in 2 or 3 years. Good point about Santos’ trade value. This is the same management that blamed OTHER TEAM’s DOCTORS for their injury fiascos. I am sick of Warthen. I am sick of seeing Pelfrey try something new every second start. Joel Sherman, who I enjoy reading but seems to be wrong a lot, said in the Post today that Pelfrey ain’t too bright. At least baseball/pitching wise. Does it make sense to have him constantly doing different things? Particularly since he seems to blow up when he goes 2-0 on ahitter? I do think he has a point today. He recommended the mets hold the fort this year and try to save money for draft picks and signings in 2011. I happen to think they will try to make a splash this year, and sign someone long term they will regret having in 2 or 3 years.

]]> By: theonlymaskman http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33874 theonlymaskman Sun, 06 Dec 2009 14:58:59 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33874 This story infuriates me so much that I just have to say more. I feel this is another example of just how BUSH Mets mgmt is. Instead of looking at his own failure to direct the pitching staff to sucess, Warthen chooses to make a scapegoat of last year's catchers. This is a direct attack at Brian Schneider. I find it offensive in that, although Schneider's performance may have been average at best, he was a team player and always displayed good attitude. He is not the cause of poor pitching performance. As far as Santos goes, he was only the back-up after all and how much do you expect from a back-up. The Mets previously dumped Castro ungraciously and now dump on the other catchers as well. I think it is all BUSH. On top of that, such attitudes may also reduce Santos' trade value and give other catchers second thoughts about coming to the Mets (even though we already have the outstanding Coste and Blanco team in place). If you can't tell, this ticks me off. And I don't want to see Omar overpaying for Molina to an extended contract blocking off Thole's arrival. This story infuriates me so much that I just have to say more. I feel this is another example of just how BUSH Mets mgmt is. Instead of looking at his own failure to direct the pitching staff to sucess, Warthen chooses to make a scapegoat of last year’s catchers. This is a direct attack at Brian Schneider. I find it offensive in that, although Schneider’s performance may have been average at best, he was a team player and always displayed good attitude. He is not the cause of poor pitching performance. As far as Santos goes, he was only the back-up after all and how much do you expect from a back-up. The Mets previously dumped Castro ungraciously and now dump on the other catchers as well. I think it is all BUSH. On top of that, such attitudes may also reduce Santos’ trade value and give other catchers second thoughts about coming to the Mets (even though we already have the outstanding Coste and Blanco team in place). If you can’t tell, this ticks me off. And I don’t want to see Omar overpaying for Molina to an extended contract blocking off Thole’s arrival.

]]> By: Bob L http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33864 Bob L Sun, 06 Dec 2009 11:51:14 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33864 In my view, plenty of blame to go around across the Mets spectrum: from the Front Office to the Manager to the coaches to the players (pitchers, whatever). If we fail to do something that we are paid to do, do we blame our bosses or do we blame ourselves? Human nature, being what it is, we try to pass some of the blame to others, but, as men, must accept our fair share. Warthen may not be a good pitching coach. How many actually make a difference? Manuel may not be a good manager. Some of his 'strategic' moves in 2009 were bizarre. But MOST of the blame has got to be pinned on the roster we had to put on the field in 2009. The pitching, except for Santana, Stokes, Feliciano...were outrageously BAD. All aspects of 'play' were atrociously BAD. The pitchers, the catchers, the fielders, the base runners, the hitters ALL should get the MOST blame. Even though i blame Omar for commission by omission, nobody in baseball could've handled the deluge of injuries we had in 2009 and still WON more games than we lost. But the players get MOST of the blame. Which is why we MUST make changes. In my view, plenty of blame to go around across the Mets spectrum: from the Front Office to the Manager to the coaches to the players (pitchers, whatever). If we fail to do something that we are paid to do, do we blame our bosses or do we blame ourselves?
Human nature, being what it is, we try to pass some of the blame to others, but, as men, must accept our fair share.
Warthen may not be a good pitching coach. How many actually make a difference? Manuel may not be a good manager. Some of his ‘strategic’ moves in 2009 were bizarre.
But MOST of the blame has got to be pinned on the roster we had to put on the field in 2009. The pitching, except for Santana, Stokes, Feliciano…were outrageously BAD. All aspects of ‘play’ were atrociously BAD.
The pitchers, the catchers, the fielders, the base runners, the hitters ALL should get the MOST blame.
Even though i blame Omar for commission by omission, nobody in baseball could’ve handled the deluge of injuries we had in 2009 and still WON more games than we lost.
But the players get MOST of the blame. Which is why we MUST make changes.

]]> By: J_Rod_ http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33863 J_Rod_ Sun, 06 Dec 2009 11:25:02 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33863 Wow, that's their excuse? Really? You blame your catchers? Warthen sounds like a little girl. Wow, that’s their excuse? Really? You blame your catchers? Warthen sounds like a little girl.

]]> By: Des http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33857 Des Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:40:09 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33857 Beginning last year, when it became obvious that the Mets were underfunded after the Uncle Bernie fiasco, the Mets distinguished themselves by making a record number of inconsequential deals that didn't cost them much moola. I was once told by an oldtimer to watch what they do, not what they say!!! Beginning last year, when it became obvious that the Mets were underfunded after the Uncle Bernie fiasco, the Mets distinguished themselves by making a record number of inconsequential deals that didn’t cost them much moola.

I was once told by an oldtimer to watch what they do, not what they say!!!

]]> By: Des http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33856 Des Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:34:04 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33856 I forgot to add that Omar is now GM in name only and Jeff Wontpon has taken over. I forgot to add that Omar is now GM in name only and Jeff Wontpon has taken over.

]]> By: Des http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33855 Des Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:31:05 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33855 Check out the stories in the New York newspapers after Schneider was acquired. Russell nails it when he cites Schneider's alleged skills working with pitchers. Also, Schneider was cited for his game-calling skills. Both factors were supposedly a big improvement over Paulie (Passed Ball) LoDuca. Seems that Dan warthen wasn't in on the party line. Rick Peterson was, but most opinions in baseball last only as long as the GM is in power. Check out the stories in the New York newspapers after Schneider was acquired. Russell nails it when he cites Schneider’s alleged skills working with pitchers. Also, Schneider was cited for his game-calling skills. Both factors were supposedly a big improvement over Paulie (Passed Ball) LoDuca.

Seems that Dan warthen wasn’t in on the party line. Rick Peterson was, but most opinions in baseball last only as long as the GM is in power.

]]> By: Deebo http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33853 Deebo Sun, 06 Dec 2009 00:46:42 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33853 Hmm... Dan Warthen blaming someone else but HIMSELF for the fact that Mets pitchers not named Santana can't throw. Cop-out, any one? Warthen need only look in the mirror for the problems. Listen, your not that good of a pitching coach to start blaming catchers!! How about giving Ollie a swift kick in the pants or telling Pelf to put up or become another Aaron Heilman. Figure out a way to put you pitchers in a position to suceed. There have been marginal pitching coaches with marginal catchers who have done better. Warthen, blame yourself and improve. If you can't, get out of the way for someone who can. Hmm… Dan Warthen blaming someone else but HIMSELF for the fact that Mets pitchers not named Santana can’t throw. Cop-out, any one? Warthen need only look in the mirror for the problems. Listen, your not that good of a pitching coach to start blaming catchers!!

How about giving Ollie a swift kick in the pants or telling Pelf to put up or become another Aaron Heilman. Figure out a way to put you pitchers in a position to suceed. There have been marginal pitching coaches with marginal catchers who have done better.

Warthen, blame yourself and improve. If you can’t, get out of the way for someone who can.

]]> By: Tommy2cat http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33852 Tommy2cat Sun, 06 Dec 2009 00:21:39 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33852 I am equally confused. Pitch selection...isn't that something that originates in the dugouts in these days of micromanagement? Didn't our catchers throw out %34 of all baserunners? Tholes needs obvious seasoning, but he can hit the lights out of the ball. An extra year of development at AAA appears to be in order. Santos, on the other hand, would appear to be a solid back-up option, given his baptism by fire last year. The Topps award would suggest that he acquitted himself quite well in the process. So, while Figgins signs elsewhere and Wagner and Schneider, who was brought in for his defensive skill and ability to handle a staff, bolt for a division rivals, Met fans are becoming increasingly uneasy while a lesser need is addressed en masse. Seems like Omar is trying to kill a fly with an elephant gun and keeps missing. And the fly he's trying to shoot isn't even in the room...A Zen koan, I presume... Taken under the best possible light, Omar & Co. are simply mixing the mortar before laying the bricks that will form the foundation for this year's team. I can understand lining up depth in the catching corp., but I become concerned when the Braves sign Wagner, the Phillies sign Polanco and the Mariners sign Figgins while Omar overloads on catchers. I think that's what making us nervous, with good reason. I am equally confused. Pitch selection…isn’t that something that originates in the dugouts in these days of micromanagement? Didn’t our catchers throw out %34 of all baserunners?

Tholes needs obvious seasoning, but he can hit the lights out of the ball. An extra year of development at AAA appears to be in order.

Santos, on the other hand, would appear to be a solid back-up option, given his baptism by fire last year. The Topps award would suggest that he acquitted himself quite well in the process.

So, while Figgins signs elsewhere and Wagner and Schneider, who was brought in for his defensive skill and ability to handle a staff, bolt for a division rivals, Met fans are becoming increasingly uneasy while a lesser need is addressed en masse. Seems like Omar is trying to kill a fly with an elephant gun and keeps missing. And the fly he’s trying to shoot isn’t even in the room…A Zen koan, I presume…

Taken under the best possible light, Omar & Co. are simply mixing the mortar before laying the bricks that will form the foundation for this year’s team. I can understand lining up depth in the catching corp., but I become concerned when the Braves sign Wagner, the Phillies sign Polanco and the Mariners sign Figgins while Omar overloads on catchers. I think that’s what making us nervous, with good reason.

]]> By: russell Zanca http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33845 russell Zanca Sat, 05 Dec 2009 23:16:01 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33845 Wasn't Schneidy brought in b/c he supposedly worked so well w/ pitchers?! Seems also that this is exactly why Philly wanted him...knows all NL E teams, knows the hitters, knows just what to tell pitchers to throw. I don't really understand. Wasn’t Schneidy brought in b/c he supposedly worked so well w/ pitchers?!

Seems also that this is exactly why Philly wanted him…knows all NL E teams, knows the hitters, knows just what to tell pitchers to throw. I don’t really understand.

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33836 jdon Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:04:17 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33836 "Under the bus" is a Jerry specialty. Nice to see Warthen is a team player. Gives you a warm cozy feeling to have this bunch "guiding" your team, does it not? “Under the bus” is a Jerry specialty. Nice to see Warthen is a team player. Gives you a warm cozy feeling to have this bunch “guiding” your team, does it not?

]]> By: jdon http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33835 jdon Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:55:20 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33835 Dan boy, the 600+ walks,it is not on the catchers. Catchers do not cause walks. Pitchers and their coaches do. Dan boy, the 600+ walks,it is not on the catchers. Catchers do not cause walks. Pitchers and their coaches do.

]]> By: Danny B http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33833 Danny B Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:09:23 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33833 I would like to see the stats on our catchers. I remember seeing schnieders stats from 08 and all offensive # were very high when he was catching for each pitcher. And much lower for all pitchers when other catchers were in. I would like to see the stats on our catchers. I remember seeing schnieders stats from 08 and all offensive # were very high when he was catching for each pitcher. And much lower for all pitchers when other catchers were in.

]]> By: Tomterif http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33828 Tomterif Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:57:33 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33828 Once again, another situation where the press doesn't report the story when it is happening. You mean to tell me none of the Mets' beat writers knew the coaching staff was dissatisfied with the catching situation? Sure they aren't going to bury players during the season but I'm sure this leaked out and the writers sat on it. Anyone who knows baseball had to know that Schneider was overrated and that Santos was inexperienced. Yet all we kept hearing was about how the catchers loved throwing to Santos. Another example of the bark of the NY sports media being worse than its bite. Once again, another situation where the press doesn’t report the story when it is happening. You mean to tell me none of the Mets’ beat writers knew the coaching staff was dissatisfied with the catching situation? Sure they aren’t going to bury players during the season but I’m sure this leaked out and the writers sat on it. Anyone who knows baseball had to know that Schneider was overrated and that Santos was inexperienced. Yet all we kept hearing was about how the catchers loved throwing to Santos. Another example of the bark of the NY sports media being worse than its bite.

]]> By: theonlymaskman http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33822 theonlymaskman Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:05:55 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33822 Interesting point Colonel. Seems like poor timing on throwing Santos under the bus when it seems pretty obvious the plan is to trade him. Why not reduce the trade value of the Topps card instead of building it up? Warthen is only interested in CMA (that's Cover My Arse) and apparently doesn't think in terms of the team's interests. Too bad he's hanging around as a millstone for 2010. Interesting point Colonel. Seems like poor timing on throwing Santos under the bus when it seems pretty obvious the plan is to trade him. Why not reduce the trade value of the Topps card instead of building it up? Warthen is only interested in CMA (that’s Cover My Arse) and apparently doesn’t think in terms of the team’s interests. Too bad he’s hanging around as a millstone for 2010.

]]> By: theonlymaskman http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33821 theonlymaskman Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:58:41 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33821 That is a pretty dismal scenario and not one that dreams are made of. That is a pretty dismal scenario and not one that dreams are made of.

]]> By: Bob L http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33820 Bob L Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:48:29 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33820 i like getting Pierre...been one of my candidates all along; problem is, it doesn't look like the Dodgers want Castillo (who could blame them!). i think Reyes and Pierre (and Figgins!) would be great complements to a terrorizing brand of small ball. As far as Halladay goes, he's great, but i have 3 worries: 1) his age and arm (33 in May; 230+IP avg over 4 'long' years0; 2) prospects it'd cost to get him (fuhgeddaboud the farm system for a few years); and 3) the dollars necessary to sign him to a 4 - 5 year deal and limitations to the payroll because of that for a few years. And Wells' contract would be the straw that choked the camel. Otherwise, the guy's great. What do you people think? i like getting Pierre…been one of my candidates all along; problem is, it doesn’t look like the Dodgers want Castillo (who could blame them!). i think Reyes and Pierre (and Figgins!) would be great complements to a terrorizing brand of small ball.
As far as Halladay goes, he’s great, but i have 3 worries: 1) his age and arm (33 in May; 230+IP avg over 4 ‘long’ years0; 2) prospects it’d cost to get him (fuhgeddaboud the farm system for a few years); and 3) the dollars necessary to sign him to a 4 – 5 year deal and limitations to the payroll because of that for a few years. And Wells’ contract would be the straw that choked the camel.
Otherwise, the guy’s great. What do you people think?

]]> By: Anthony http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33819 Anthony Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:45:14 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33819 I am kind of leery about the thoughts that the main Goals of the mets at these meetings is to trade castillo and sign hudson for 2b, leaving out the big 3 FA's in this who will not go till after the meetings, I am getting leery of the thought of Pat Burrell coming here, I got a feeling if the Cubs/Rays make that swap that Burrell is getting flipped to the mets for castillo. Makes no sense for the cubs to have 2 LF's, they want Cameron in CF and they also interested in Marlon Byrd, and Bradley is a upgrade over Burrell for Tampa.Ughh if Burrel is in LF, Molina at C, Hudson at 2b and Delgado at 1b, and Biemel is the RP, they better get Lackey in the end if us mets fans, especially the season ticket holders have to go thru all this nonsense. I am kind of leery about the thoughts that the main Goals of the mets at these meetings is to trade castillo and sign hudson for 2b, leaving out the big 3 FA’s in this who will not go till after the meetings, I am getting leery of the thought of Pat Burrell coming here, I got a feeling if the Cubs/Rays make that swap that Burrell is getting flipped to the mets for castillo. Makes no sense for the cubs to have 2 LF’s, they want Cameron in CF and they also interested in Marlon Byrd, and Bradley is a upgrade over Burrell for Tampa.Ughh if Burrel is in LF, Molina at C, Hudson at 2b and Delgado at 1b, and Biemel is the RP, they better get Lackey in the end if us mets fans, especially the season ticket holders have to go thru all this nonsense.

]]> By: Bob L http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/dan-warthen-blames-mets-catchers-for-2009-pitching-woes.html#comment-33818 Bob L Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:40:06 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16848#comment-33818 so far, the dreams ain't been satisfying! so far, the dreams ain’t been satisfying!

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