I have just finished reading a very good article by our friend Bart Hubbuch of the NY Post. While everyone seems to be scratching their heads and wondering what the deal is with the Mets fondness for catchers in recent days, Hubbuch actually does a fantastic job of filling in the blanks and explaining the reasoning behind some of the recent moves.
It looks like both Jerry Manuel and pitching coach Dan Warthen were very unhappy with the Mets catching situation last season and they were the motivation behind the recent Henry Blanco and Chris Coste signings. Both complained to Omar Minaya and felt the catching situation needed to be seriously addressed.
Hubbuch’s article, which is a must read, has this very revealing quote from Warthen,
Asked by The Post late in the year how he felt about the catchers’ defense and handling of the pitchers, Warthen pursed his lips and said: “Next question.”
Wow, how’s that for an answer? It speaks volumes huh?
Warthen was none to happy with Brian Schneider either, particularly his game calling.
Warthen held them partially responsible for the staff’s 4.46 ERA — 12th in the league — and the whopping 616 walks that were just three shy the franchise record.
I actually thought Omir Santos did a solid job as a backup catcher, but what the heck do I know. Although I’m always chock full of opinions, I don’t consider myself to be an expert. If Manuel and Warthen felt this bad about him, I trust their judgment and join them in ushering in the Henry Blanco and Chris Coste era.
Despite his age, the 38-year-old Blanco is considered one of the top defensive catchers in the game, although don’t expect much in the way of offense.
Apparently, Blanco will backup for the Mets, while Coste will backup and mentor Josh Thole in Class-AAA Buffalo. The hope is that Thole will then be able to take over full time for the Mets in 2011. Incidentally, Thole his having a tremendous campaign in Venezuela where he is batting .367 to lead the league.
The Mets still consider the starting catcher spot open and still have their eyes on Bengie Molina who became so much more attractive when he was not offered arbitration by the Giants. My question is, if the plan is to have Thole start in 2011, why would we offer Molina anything more than a one year deal?
Many people in the know have Molina pegged for a 2-3 year deal.
What are your thoughts?
By the way, Bart Hubbuch is one of a handful of Mets beat writers that do a fine job of interacting with Mets fans via Twitter. He also has a great Mets blog that he frequently updates and so much of what we analyze on our site comes from him and a bunch of other great beat writers including Adam Rubin, Steve Popper, Brian Costa and all the guys at Newsday. I’d have nothing to rant and rave about if not for their terrific work.
Nice to see the Mets have their priorities in order. Corner the back up catcher market, while continuing to let Luis Castillo’s contract, which, should have gotten Minaya fired in the first place (but that is a broken record comment…scratched CD for you younger folks) prevent them from doing the right thing. The fact that the Mets did not sign Figgins, or at least get legitimately into the deal, IS A F***ING JOKE. YOU pay him whatever it takes to play second base, even if you have to give him more than you want, and then, if you do not sign a left fielder, you already have one on your roster. All this does is, give the team a second legitimate lead off hitter, in case Reyes goes down again, or what the Mariners have now in the best one-two in baseball. Let’s face it, how long into 2010 will it be before another Mets player, and it could Reyes, spends two weeks getting one at bat because the Mets management closes its eyes and hope that the injury will go away magically, so they make the manager manage short handed for a month. The only question with that is will they let the available roster get back down to 23 or 22. Unless you are going to tell me that they will bite the bullet and tell the Blue Jays, we are going to do you the biggest favor in the world, since we know bad contracts as well as, if not better than anyone in baseball, we are going to take Vernon Wells from you and you are going to throw in Roy Halladay, after we get him to agree to a four year deal. He probably wants five and should only get three, so the four is a compromise…they can throw in a way to get a fifth, if he stays healthy. Think about it, Darth Vader were in his sixties and still running the Evil Empire, is there any question that he would do this?
However, since that will not happen, because there are still two years on both the deals for Lazy Castillo, and Moronic Perez, this team will do NOTHING. And two months from now we will be rerading all the stories about how the core is healthy and ready to go. Then, come April, will go back to be the same sloppy, uninterested ball club (save three or four players)
RANTING OVER…for now
HEY, 64, NEXT TIME U GO IN TO BUY A CAR, WHY NOT TELL THE SALESMAN HOE DESPERATE U ARE FOR ONE IN THE VERY FIRSTR SENTENCE. U THINK DEALING CASTILLO AEWAY IS TOUGH NOW, TRY DOING IT AFTER U’VE SIGNED HIS REPLACEMENT! THERE IS NO HIGHER PRICE THAN WHEN THE SALESMAN KNOWS YOU’RE DESPERATION. THUS, WHEN WE WERE GUTTED BY INJURIESM, THE REPLACEMENT COSTS TO US WERE GREATER SINCE THERE IS NO MERCY OR CRYING IN BASEBALL. RIVASL GMs ARE OUT TO GET YOUR BEST FOR THEIR WORST. IF THEY BELIEVE U HAVE TO HAVE THEIR WORST THEY’LL INSIST UPON MORE OF YOUR BEST. JUST AS BORAS KNEW HOW MUCH NYM HAD TO SPEND FOR A SP FROM THE LOWE OFFER, HE ALSO KNEW ALL THAT WAS LEFT WAS WOLF, GARLAND & SHEETS. NO SUREFIRE GUARANTEED BETTER ALTERNATIVES!
I think they are going to lose their fan base if they don’t bring real good players; Haladay – Wells, Barajas, one year to Delgado and wait for Mr Davis; and trade Castillo for Pierre, we are done.
Yeah, throw them under the bus for their pitching problems. The Mets had other problems this past season other than the catching core issues.
Please not Holliday, not Bay, You see the 1-2 seattle got with the Ichiro – Figins combo, we can get Reyes-Pierre.
i understand the frustration. But if catching was a problem, then fix it. It is the cornerstone of the ‘up the middle defense’ stratagem i think is critical for a winning team to have. 2B next; then LF and some depth at 1B. And then improve the rotation. i still believe we will do something constructive and tangible to improve the team this off season.
So far it looks like you’re in Dreamland. Perhaps Omar will get something done, but the odds of fixing all the holes and filling the true needs are next to hopeless. We’ll see how things progress, but right now the signs are not good.
so far, the dreams ain’t been satisfying!
I am kind of leery about the thoughts that the main Goals of the mets at these meetings is to trade castillo and sign hudson for 2b, leaving out the big 3 FA’s in this who will not go till after the meetings, I am getting leery of the thought of Pat Burrell coming here, I got a feeling if the Cubs/Rays make that swap that Burrell is getting flipped to the mets for castillo. Makes no sense for the cubs to have 2 LF’s, they want Cameron in CF and they also interested in Marlon Byrd, and Bradley is a upgrade over Burrell for Tampa.Ughh if Burrel is in LF, Molina at C, Hudson at 2b and Delgado at 1b, and Biemel is the RP, they better get Lackey in the end if us mets fans, especially the season ticket holders have to go thru all this nonsense.
That is a pretty dismal scenario and not one that dreams are made of.
Dan boy, the 600+ walks,it is not on the catchers. Catchers do not cause walks. Pitchers and their coaches do.
This is all excuses by a coaching staff looking to save their own butts. Now Warthen has shown his colors as a finger pointer. How about taking some responsibility for the dismal pitching performance? Were the catchers responsible for the head case known as Crazy Ollie? Are the catchers responsible for all the walks by this staff? Wasn’t Warthen a bases on balls pitcher in his own crappy pitching career?
If they trade Santos, it had better be in a rollup for a real player who can fill a critical roll.
The real solution was to dump Omar and fix the coaching staff for real. The coaching staff changes Jerry put in place are nothing more than whitewash. It looks like Sandy Jr saw the handwriting on the wall and beat it out of town while the getting was good. Congratulations to him for using his head!
When I read the title, I thought that they were passing the buck around. Maybe they could be onto something, but I didn’t the catchers were the only reason for the bad pitching. I mean, who’s responsible for Ollie?
Anyway, with Blanco as the MLB backup, and Coste as the AAA backup, it likely means that they have a deal lined up for Santos. I haven’t heard much about interest in Santos.
I’d like to see Schneider’s reaction to this article, I wonder if he’ll throw blame right back. That’d be an interesting story.
I visit your site quite frequently and I’m a die hard Mets fan. I just want to say that as a writer and journalist myself, I appreciate the credit you added to the end of this post, and the fact you acknowledged some of the journalists who provide the springboard for many of your posts. Well done.
Wow, nice job on throwing Santos and company under the bus. Last time I checked the pitchers said they had no problem with how Santos called a game. Now we may argue on how he bats and defense, but the game calling seems to be fine.
But no, Warthen decides to have a “Buck Gets Passed” policy and throws all the Mets catchers under the bus. How often did we see the PITCHER get walked? How often did guys like Ollie and Pelf get completely mentally messed up when a strike call didn’t go there way.
I am sorry, these catchers are not psychologists. If they call for a slider and you launch a helicopter, whose fault is that? If they want Pelf to throw a sinker and he hangs it, whose fault is that? Catcher don’t correct the way a pitcher throws the ball or his mechanics.
I never heard a single Met pitcher complain about how our catchers called a game. This is pretty much a low-blow shot at Schnieder and Santos. We can argue their defense and offense, but this is pretty bad.
But I suppose this is the gangsta mentality we got. You know, like how Wright is a different creature than Church on concussions…
Interesting point Colonel. Seems like poor timing on throwing Santos under the bus when it seems pretty obvious the plan is to trade him. Why not reduce the trade value of the Topps card instead of building it up? Warthen is only interested in CMA (that’s Cover My Arse) and apparently doesn’t think in terms of the team’s interests. Too bad he’s hanging around as a millstone for 2010.
“Under the bus” is a Jerry specialty. Nice to see Warthen is a team player. Gives you a warm cozy feeling to have this bunch “guiding” your team, does it not?
i like getting Pierre…been one of my candidates all along; problem is, it doesn’t look like the Dodgers want Castillo (who could blame them!). i think Reyes and Pierre (and Figgins!) would be great complements to a terrorizing brand of small ball.
As far as Halladay goes, he’s great, but i have 3 worries: 1) his age and arm (33 in May; 230+IP avg over 4 ‘long’ years0; 2) prospects it’d cost to get him (fuhgeddaboud the farm system for a few years); and 3) the dollars necessary to sign him to a 4 – 5 year deal and limitations to the payroll because of that for a few years. And Wells’ contract would be the straw that choked the camel.
Otherwise, the guy’s great. What do you people think?
Once again, another situation where the press doesn’t report the story when it is happening. You mean to tell me none of the Mets’ beat writers knew the coaching staff was dissatisfied with the catching situation? Sure they aren’t going to bury players during the season but I’m sure this leaked out and the writers sat on it. Anyone who knows baseball had to know that Schneider was overrated and that Santos was inexperienced. Yet all we kept hearing was about how the catchers loved throwing to Santos. Another example of the bark of the NY sports media being worse than its bite.
I would like to see the stats on our catchers. I remember seeing schnieders stats from 08 and all offensive # were very high when he was catching for each pitcher. And much lower for all pitchers when other catchers were in.
Wasn’t Schneidy brought in b/c he supposedly worked so well w/ pitchers?!
Seems also that this is exactly why Philly wanted him…knows all NL E teams, knows the hitters, knows just what to tell pitchers to throw. I don’t really understand.
Check out the stories in the New York newspapers after Schneider was acquired. Russell nails it when he cites Schneider’s alleged skills working with pitchers. Also, Schneider was cited for his game-calling skills. Both factors were supposedly a big improvement over Paulie (Passed Ball) LoDuca.
Seems that Dan warthen wasn’t in on the party line. Rick Peterson was, but most opinions in baseball last only as long as the GM is in power.
I forgot to add that Omar is now GM in name only and Jeff Wontpon has taken over.
I am equally confused. Pitch selection…isn’t that something that originates in the dugouts in these days of micromanagement? Didn’t our catchers throw out %34 of all baserunners?
Tholes needs obvious seasoning, but he can hit the lights out of the ball. An extra year of development at AAA appears to be in order.
Santos, on the other hand, would appear to be a solid back-up option, given his baptism by fire last year. The Topps award would suggest that he acquitted himself quite well in the process.
So, while Figgins signs elsewhere and Wagner and Schneider, who was brought in for his defensive skill and ability to handle a staff, bolt for a division rivals, Met fans are becoming increasingly uneasy while a lesser need is addressed en masse. Seems like Omar is trying to kill a fly with an elephant gun and keeps missing. And the fly he’s trying to shoot isn’t even in the room…A Zen koan, I presume…
Taken under the best possible light, Omar & Co. are simply mixing the mortar before laying the bricks that will form the foundation for this year’s team. I can understand lining up depth in the catching corp., but I become concerned when the Braves sign Wagner, the Phillies sign Polanco and the Mariners sign Figgins while Omar overloads on catchers. I think that’s what making us nervous, with good reason.
Beginning last year, when it became obvious that the Mets were underfunded after the Uncle Bernie fiasco, the Mets distinguished themselves by making a record number of inconsequential deals that didn’t cost them much moola.
I was once told by an oldtimer to watch what they do, not what they say!!!
Hmm… Dan Warthen blaming someone else but HIMSELF for the fact that Mets pitchers not named Santana can’t throw. Cop-out, any one? Warthen need only look in the mirror for the problems. Listen, your not that good of a pitching coach to start blaming catchers!!
How about giving Ollie a swift kick in the pants or telling Pelf to put up or become another Aaron Heilman. Figure out a way to put you pitchers in a position to suceed. There have been marginal pitching coaches with marginal catchers who have done better.
Warthen, blame yourself and improve. If you can’t, get out of the way for someone who can.
Wow, that’s their excuse? Really? You blame your catchers? Warthen sounds like a little girl.
In my view, plenty of blame to go around across the Mets spectrum: from the Front Office to the Manager to the coaches to the players (pitchers, whatever). If we fail to do something that we are paid to do, do we blame our bosses or do we blame ourselves?
Human nature, being what it is, we try to pass some of the blame to others, but, as men, must accept our fair share.
Warthen may not be a good pitching coach. How many actually make a difference? Manuel may not be a good manager. Some of his ‘strategic’ moves in 2009 were bizarre.
But MOST of the blame has got to be pinned on the roster we had to put on the field in 2009. The pitching, except for Santana, Stokes, Feliciano…were outrageously BAD. All aspects of ‘play’ were atrociously BAD.
The pitchers, the catchers, the fielders, the base runners, the hitters ALL should get the MOST blame.
Even though i blame Omar for commission by omission, nobody in baseball could’ve handled the deluge of injuries we had in 2009 and still WON more games than we lost.
But the players get MOST of the blame. Which is why we MUST make changes.
This story infuriates me so much that I just have to say more. I feel this is another example of just how BUSH Mets mgmt is. Instead of looking at his own failure to direct the pitching staff to sucess, Warthen chooses to make a scapegoat of last year’s catchers. This is a direct attack at Brian Schneider. I find it offensive in that, although Schneider’s performance may have been average at best, he was a team player and always displayed good attitude. He is not the cause of poor pitching performance. As far as Santos goes, he was only the back-up after all and how much do you expect from a back-up. The Mets previously dumped Castro ungraciously and now dump on the other catchers as well. I think it is all BUSH. On top of that, such attitudes may also reduce Santos’ trade value and give other catchers second thoughts about coming to the Mets (even though we already have the outstanding Coste and Blanco team in place). If you can’t tell, this ticks me off. And I don’t want to see Omar overpaying for Molina to an extended contract blocking off Thole’s arrival.
Good point about Santos’ trade value. This is the same management that blamed OTHER TEAM’s DOCTORS for their injury fiascos. I am sick of Warthen. I am sick of seeing Pelfrey try something new every second start. Joel Sherman, who I enjoy reading but seems to be wrong a lot, said in the Post today that Pelfrey ain’t too bright. At least baseball/pitching wise. Does it make sense to have him constantly doing different things? Particularly since he seems to blow up when he goes 2-0 on ahitter? I do think he has a point today. He recommended the mets hold the fort this year and try to save money for draft picks and signings in 2011. I happen to think they will try to make a splash this year, and sign someone long term they will regret having in 2 or 3 years.