I can’t believe what I just read from Bill Madden in the Daily News this morning.
Mets? Did somebody say the Mets? They won’t spend the money for Holliday, Bay or Lackey and apparently, they’re only interested in signing low-budget Latin players, having shown little or no interest in Byrd, Figgins, DeRosa, Wolf or even Staten Island’s Jason Marquis, while waiting for their markets to come to them. At the same time, the Phillies and Braves wasted no time in addressing their needs. Sad.
Is he serious?
It’s time for the Daily News to do the right thing and fire Bill Madden.
In this day and age, for someone with such a wide reaching audience to regurgitate such venom is repulsive as well as ignorant.
Madden does a grave disservice to all the other great writers of the Daily News.
Hat tip to Mets Police for the heads up.
Yes, this story is in very poor taste. However, there may be an element of truth in the following words: “while waiting for their markets to come to them”. There may be something to that as we hear of Omar “acting in his own time”. The Mets may be refusing to bid for players, but rather waiting to see what remains after the flurry of signings. If true, the strategy then is to pick from among the left-overs. Not likely to be the best strategy for signing true quality players. If we actually knew the true Mets strategy, there is a very good chance we fans might be unhappy campers. Let’s see how this offseason goes as we look back upon it in ST. I truly hope we’re not disappointed.
simple enough to prove. If Omar winds up with a stiff like Guillen or some other Latin player who comes cheap, then it will be the truth, and while the truth can seem like poor taste at times, it is the business of a newspaper writer.
It will be very sad if we come away with Guillen as our big solution to LF.
Somehow we may not get the guys to fill in the holes that the team needs for 2010. Let’s find out when the Winter Meetings start this week if its true or not. I hope its not like last year when the Mets didn’t get their stuff straight during free agency except for K-Rod.
Wow, they’ll never get another dime from me unless they ditch his sorry ass. If I were Omar this would motivate me even more to go after Lackey and Holliday.
I don’t think it’s that big a deal relative to the context it’s in.
He’s not too happy about how the Mets are doing things so far while other teams are addressing their needs already. He sounds like he could be blogging or in the chat room here.
I have no problem with it.
You are right. It does sound like one of us sounding off here about pet peeves. Maybe it is nothing to get excited about, but I will feel a lot better after Omar makes a legitimate quality signing. I’m still waiting.
I dont think its a big deal if a blogger or someone said it on comments. But this was printed in a newspaper that reaches millions and he should have a little more respect and savvy.
You’re right also. It casts doubts on his professionalism and puts him in the category of amateurs like us. We can spout off here as it is justs the likes of us who read the comments. He writes to the larger audience and, in that light, those comments are unfair. However, it makes me wonder if he has touched upon a flaw in the Mets strategy. That will be disspelled if Omar shows some agressiveness at going after a prime target. I hope he does, but won’t bank on it.
I also heard him on the Fan last night – sorry but he sounds like he has serious ax to grind. Meanwhile on Fox Sports it reads that Mets may go hard after Lackey,
AGAIN and again, all these writers are going on speculation and I believe are playing against each other.
At this point NO ONE has any validity as far as I’m concerned and will wait, a little while longer before forming an opinion.
Madden bugs me because he’s unfair. There’s much to criticize in how the Mets–from ownership to the front office–have conducted their business over the past 10 years (to limit our reference!).
Madden bugs me because he’s anti-New York, often lauding other teams, their prospects, etc., and ignoring positive developments in the farm systems of both New York teams.
And catch the ‘placement’ of his dismissal of the Mets today: last comment in the column and the only total dismissal of any of the teams mentioned.
i am worried. Nothing tangible for us has as of yet happened, but it’s far too early to write the winter signing/trading season ‘off’.
And Buddy H makes a great point. i also listened to the Fan last night when Madden and Rubin and others were on, and truly, it’s total conjecture on everyone’s part. No one has a clue. i hope the Mets do and put one over on all of us…retool this club for 2010 and beyond in an effective and well-planned way.
Last five Mets acquisitions: Henry Blanco, Chris Coste, Chris Carter, Jeff Francoeur, Gary Sheffield, Cory Sullivan. Hardly an indictment.
What would you do if you were the Omar or JW? I don’t usually defend the management as they have done a terrible job with this franchise over the past 10 years. However, the Mets are not catching the Phils and may not even catch the Marlins or Braves this year. It is financially responsible to see what bargains are out there. Unfortunately, the realistic picture is to begin to rebuild. I don’t understand why they are signing 38 year old catchers. But Madden is correct in one thing (although he is not politically correct), hasn’t this organization signed a proliferation of Latin ballplayers? Many of them were indeed budget. Also, when was the last time that JW & assoc. went head-to-head vs. another big market team to sign a high-profile player? Truthfully, I can’t think of any………. Can you? I don’t think that we can expect any of the top FAs to come to Citifield this year. But if the fanbase can be patient, next year presents a better FA crop and hopefully the focus will be to fortify a minor league program (to more effectively build and teach young talent) for the next several years.
Roy, You said: “But if the fanbase can be patient, next year presents a better FA crop and hopefully the focus will be to fortify a minor league program (to more effectively build and teach young talent) for the next several years.” The weakness in that statement is the teaching of young talent. The recent experience with Murphy, Neise, Parnell, Evans and others doesn’t support a lot of teaching talent down in the farm. The youngsters came here and the lack of preparation was all too apparent. Teaching at the ML level is woefully deficient as well using the same examples. What has Warthen taught Neise and Parnell not to speak of Pelfrey and Ollie? What fielding and batting skills have been given to the field players? Before we can rebuild the farm system, it seems we need to start by populating the staff with experience and knowledge and mentoring ability.
Don’t shoot the messenger folks
exactly….are you people really upset/surprised? He just said what everyone else is thinking.
No he didn’t…………love the arrogance when people speak for “EVERYONE”
First of all, Madden is a hack. Having said that, while he made his point rather indelicately, Met fans cannot deny that Omar has shown a strong partiality to signing and trading for Latin players. I mean seriously, if Alex Cora was a white guy, would he be getting $2 million to be a soft-hitting, low-range backup shortstop. You don’t do that so a backup can be a clubhouse leader.
i’ve long wondered same thing.
I think when anyone suggests that the Mets under Omar Minaya go out of their way to sign Latin American players is exposing their own bias, however benign or subtle it may be.
Before we discuss Latin players to the Mets, we should at the very least investigate the percentages of various demographic groups in the sport overall. I have no access to this information but it should be gathered and used to either support or refute these kinds of race related statements.
I only have quick access to Met acquisitions data through the beginning of the 2008 season, not since, but let’s take a look at what I have immediate access to.
Since Omar took over in 2004 through 2008 he has brought the following Latin players aboard:
Felix Heredia, Anderson Hernandez, Fernando Lunar, Benji Gil, Carlos Delgado, Duaner Sanchez, Jorge Julio, Orlando Hernandez, Eli Marrero, Ruben Gotay, Roberto Hernandez, Oliver Perez, Guillermo Mota, Ambiorix Burgos, Luis Castillo, Luis Matos, Angel Pagan, and Johan Santana through trade and Pedro Martinez, Carlos Beltran and Moises Alou via free agency. 20 players.
He’s also brought aboard Doug Mientkiewicz, Kaz Ishii, Steve Colyer, Xavier Nady, Tike Redman, Paul LoDuca, Steve Schmoll, John Maine, Dave Williams, Mike Adams, Shawn Green, Mike Nickeas, Jon Adkins, Ben Johnson, Adam Bostick, Jason Vargas, Chad Hermanson, Jeff Conine, Johnny Estrada, Brian Stokes, Ryan Church, Brian Schneider, and Trot Nixon through trades, and Billy Wagner, Tom Glavine and Scott Schoeneweis via free agency. 26 players.
Through the start of 2008 thats 20 of 46 players from Latin America, 26 from “other.” 43%. I would like to see a similar breakdown for other teams over the same time period, and I would also like to see an overall breakdown of the entire major leagues in a similar fashion before accusing any one GM of stockpiling players of a certain race.
I understand your point, Hebner, but I think you left some guys off the list–Cora and that very old man who used to play for the Braves that he overpaid? And it’s not so much as the number of players but also the money he paid out to them and the years on the contract. There isn’t one guy on your non-Latin list that got too much money or too many years on their contract the way some of the Latin guys did.
Tom T those are reasonable, fair points, although somewhat subjective. If we analyze Omar in a vacuum what do we have to compare him to? As I said to jdon below, I am not here to say that the suggestion that Omar favors Lation players is not true, I would just like a wider field of view, some specific comparisons and contrasts, before I adopt it as my point of view. Until then it’s just hearsay and opinion, which is rarely unbiased.
I have no desire to be politically correct. If you have eyes and some measure of understanding you know that Omar has a bias toward Latin players. However, no one can accuse him of that, no matter how obvious it becomes, and anyone who does accuse is automatically tarred with the bias brush. Omar gets a free ride. There is no getting around it. The politically correct are among us. The obvious can no longer be obvious.
jdon, all I’m asking anyone to do is to provide some factual evidence of this phenomenon, not just “eyes and some measure of understanding” because “eyes” are biased and I ask you, “some measure of understanding” of what? Show me some concrete facts to support the assertion and I’ll believe it. I am not suggesting it’s not true, I just want more proof of it than “it seems that way” or “I mean come on just look” which are not things you said but are responses I’ve seen elsewhere on this topic. Until that happens, it just shows an inability or an unwillingness to investigate facts that may dispute a belief. Simply dismissing a different opinion as political correctness is taking the easy way out.
Well, your idea if concrete is some percentage, I think. My idea is Omar bringing in washed up Latin players whenever the opportunity presents itself. Guys like Julio Franco and Tatis, like Livan Hernandez, Felix Herdia and that drunk Jorge Julio. Giving Ollie 36 MILLION when no one else was making him an offer. Bringing in human flotsam like Anderson Hernandez, Wilson Valdez and Argenis Reyes and resigning a Disabled list guy like Alou for 8 million with his injury history at his age. It seems to me that Omar is running a jobs program for some of his old buddies. Does it match up with the league percentages on hispanic players? Who knows. There are some teams in this league who have hardly any. Are they biased? Is there a required percentage you must have? I happen to think Omar is incompetent. I thought he was incompetent when they brought him in here. Does that make me biased? I don’t think Omar evaluates, I think he tries to get guys he knows.
I think your informal statistics for player signings should include the farm system as well
This why I detest ingonorant writers like Madden. It’s because they are dangerous and they perpetuate a bias that isn’t really there. We haven’t heard this Latino BS for almost a year, but now thanks to Madden those old backward thinking sentiments have reared their ugly heads again. I’m glad to see that for the most part most of the commenters on this thread understand how negligent Madden is, and that Omar is guilty of many things, but racisim isn’t one of them.
I don’t think anyone is knocking Latino players. Just bad players. And I think a lot of people feel that Omar has a bias for Latino players and will prefer a Latino player to a non-Latino who might be better. Or to be more precise, he will not look hard for a player if some player he knows is available. Most of the players that are talked about are not big time players. No one in their right mind would criticize adding a Reyes or a Beltran. And saying that about Omar or some of the players he signs is not bias. Bias is when you think someone is better BECAUSE of his race or ethnic background. I hardly think it is a stretch to say that Omar displays a preference for Latino players. And if a person thinks that, then you must also think that Omar is biased. Bill Madden hates the met organization, but I think it is because he feels they are second rate, not that they are biased. I seriously doubt that he would say that if he had not heard it from a source he trusted. If he did, if he was just shooting from the hip, he probably should have his goose cooked.
I agree that it looks pretty suspect in print – but let’s be real here. Whether Omar is trying to fill the roster with low priced Latin players or high priced Latin players he has filled the team with Latin players.
They do not market the name “Los Mets” for nothing.
BTW, I am not saying whether filling the roster with Latin players is good or not – every player should be evaluated individually – but it does seem somewhat unusual that Omar seems to go after a lot of Latin players.
Think about this – the only trade this past year of note was when he traded for a non-latino player – Frenchy (of course, he got rid of a non-latino player to make the trade – Ryan Church.)
If the whole Met team was made up of Latin players and the team competed, made the playoffs and won a WS I guarantee that this conversation would be mute. I am a Latin player and Latin players along with blacks had a hard time cracking Major League rosters in the middle of the past century so Madden’s comments are offensive and naive. Anyone who agrees with this is just as naive. Omar might have an agenda but he wants to win regardless of the national origin of the player. Those who see this and agree with Madden need to look at the rosters of Major League teams.
The Daily News actually removed the word “Latino” and revised the original text. Obviously, the editors had a problem with it is as well.
According to Joel Sherman in the New York Post, if the Cubs agree to send Bradley to the Rays in exchange Burrell, the Mets would consider swapping Castillo for Burrell, who has one year and $9 million left on his contract.
i wouldn’t do that, unless Burrell was for depth in LF and 1B.