16
2009
Are The Phillies That Much Better With Halladay?
An article by 
The Toronto Blue Jays waved goodbye to the face of their franchise by dealing starting pitcher Roy Halladay to the Philadelphia Phillies. The three-team deal, which also involved the Seattle Mariners, will be considered complete once all the players involved take (and pass) their physicals.
On paper, it looks as if the Phillies improved themselves drastically by adding arguably the best American League pitcher of the past few years. However, while I was focusing on the Phillies/Blue Jays part of the Halladay trade, my one-track, fourth-place mind failed to realize that to make this deal, the Phillies had to deal Cliff Lee to Seattle. Lee is a younger lefty who not only had playoff experience (unlike Halladay) but excelled in the postseason (4-0, 1.56 ERA in the 2009 playoffs). In addition to losing Lee, the Phillies also parted ways with Kyle Drabek, who was supposed to be a major part of their future.
I’m trying to envision the Phillies’ rotation for the 2010 season and I see Roy Halladay leading the staff, followed by the following pitchers:
Cole Hamels: Hamels has question marks after last season’s inconsistent performance. He has been overworked at a young age due to extended postseasons.
Joe Blanton: Blanton gave up more hits than innings pitched last year and was one of only four pitchers who gave up at least 30 HR in 2009. However, every other pitcher who gave up 30 HR made at least 33 starts. Blanton only made 31.
J.A. Happ: Happ is a good young pitcher, but faltered down the stretch and in the postseason. After his last start in August, he made five more regular season starts. In those starts, his ERA was 4.84, his WHIP was 1.66 and opposing batters hit .344 against him. It got worse in the playoffs, where his ERA was 5.68 and his WHIP was an ungodly 2.21. There are clearly some durability issues here.
Jamie Moyer: The man is so old, he got misty eyed when the Phillies played the Yankees in the World Series because it brought back childhood memories of the 1950 Phils-Yanks World Series matchup. His 2009 ERA was just south of 5.00 and his 25 starts were his fewest since 1996, when Todd Hundley was setting catcher home run records for the Mets.
The Phillies can also turn to Kyle Kendrick and Antonio Bastardo, who are ready to step in whenever Moyer needs to take a nap.
The Phillies’ rotation doesn’t look too different from the staff the Mets currently employ. We have a bonafide #1 starter in Johan Santana, followed by Question Mark (Mike Pelfrey), Question Mark (John Maine) and Off The Mark (Oliver Perez).
The glaring difference between the Mets and the Phillies is very clear. It’s all about each team’s offense. The Phillies slugged their way to the World Series by hitting a league-leading 224 home runs in 2009, including more home runs with men on base (96) than the Mets had home runs (95).
Fine, so the Mets didn’t get an ace pitcher who could complement Santana in the rotation. But their rotation is still comparable to the Phillies’ starters, even more so if they can add Jason Marquis or Joel Piñeiro. If they want to have a chance in the National League East, they’ll need to sign a big bat or two and hope for a return to form by the injured hitters.
Sadly, there may not be enough big bats left out there other than Matt Holliday and Jason Bay and both of them play the same position. If Daniel Murphy leads the Mets in home runs again, it won’t matter what our pitching staff looks like. It’ll be another postseason where we root for certain teams to lose instead of rooting for the Mets to win.
About the Author: Ed Leyro
Ed Leyro was hatched in the Bronx, but spent most of his youth in Queens at Shea Stadium. Apparently, all that time spent at Mets games paid off as Ed met his wife (The Coop) for the first time at Citi Field during its inaugural season. Guess the 2009 season was good for something after all. In addition to his work at Mets Merized Online, Ed also owns, operates and is head janitor at Studious Metsimus, where he shares blogging duties with Joey Beartran. For those not in the know, Joey is a teddy bear dressed in a Mets hoodie. Clearly, Studious Metsimus is not your typical Mets blog.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nationals | 26 | 18 | .591 | - |
| Braves | 26 | 20 | .565 | 1.0 |
| Mets | 24 | 21 | .533 | 2.5 |
| Marlins | 24 | 21 | .533 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 23 | 23 | .500 | 4.0 |
Last updated: 05/25/2012
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Write Your Own Mets Post
Exactly what i was thinking…Roy Halladay cant pitch for the rest of the staff…The Mets need to sign Ben Sheets and jason Marquis…If the Mets make this move they will have a better pitching staff then the Phillies I feel.
D,
What medicine are you on because I would like to take it too!?
Anyone who states that Halladay isn’t much better than Lee, just does not know anything about pitching. Granted Lee has pitched very well the last two years. But there are one or maybe two pitchers at the most who are better than Doc in the game.
Roy,
Where in my statement do you see me say that roy isnt much better then lee….All im saying is Phillies 2,3,4, and 5 in their pitching staff is in much question as our pitching staff and their bullpen has some question marks…So for people to say that now the Phillies are way better then the Mets is crazy! A healthy Mets squad right now can compete with the Phillies. Phils are still better then the Mets but not way better! Mets are a couple of moves away of challenging the Phillies for that NL East crown.
its not that easy, ben sheets wants $12mil guaranteed and doesnt want to do any side work for any team, so thats a problem. secondly, you owe oli $24 mil for the next two years and you cant just dump that salary. notice: you can’t trade what no other team wants and for that money, good luck.
d, is that the same ben sheets who’s demanding 12m per coming off elbow surgery & a nonplaying season who’s also missed time due to back & shoulder issues yet refuses to pitch a tryout session? you can’t mean that ben sheets, can u? if it is can we fire u instead of omar should he choose to follow your advice? u’ve been listening to sny too much! a bunch of nyy loving schills trying to pave the way for jeffie to take total control from a disgusted pops.
dude we have no choice now! You sound stupid! Omar wasted time by not going after lackey…If you sign sheets for one year it not a bad thing…For your info im from Jersey moron!
d, calm down, name calling? i’ve lived a number of yrs in the garden state, my daughter & grandkids live there now; but what does that have to do with the rediculous 12m pricetag on sheets? since he’s refusing to show what he’;s got, what if he’s got nothing like lima? 12m down the crapper is bigger waste than the 12m we shredded on perez last season.
i agree with u that IF omar gets his targets bay,marquis,molina & reyes,delgado,beltran ret’n & stay healthy we will compete with phl better than most of those idiot antimet pundits perceive. if all those targets are bagged & tagged my lineup would look like this:
reyes(sw)
beltran(sw)
bay(r)
delgado(l)
wright(r)
francoeur(r)
molina(r)
castillo?(sw)
p(santana,marquis,perez,pelfrey,maine)
supported by a potential pen of:
k-rod,feliciano,stokes,parnell,iragashi,dessens,green
bench: cora,tatis,murphy,pagan
GO TO WAR!
bay+francoeur gte ibanez,werth
beltran > victorino
delgado=howard
reyes>rollins
wright=utley
molina>ruiz
santana=halladay
marquis=hamels
perez>blanton(considering records vs. each club)
pelfrey gte happ
maine gte moyer
phl will always outhomer nym due to ballpark differentials
all pitching assumptions based upon molina extricating best performances out of perez,pelf,maine
perez>
Mets would be fine if they:
1. Sign Ben Sheets AND Erick Bedard
2. Sign Mike Jacobs and Carlos Delgado to play first
3. Sign Vlad Guerrero to play left with Jacobs backing him up. He is only 33 and he will not get paid more than $12-13 MM. I also suggest they look into the Detroit Tigers fire sale and ask about some of their players. Jim Leyland’s players are well coached and winning is demanded of them. I like Cabrera and would consider taking on a portion of Dontrelle’s contract to help get it done. I would also consider taking Magglio if Detroit paid a CHUNK of his salary.
4. Get the same doctors used by the Phoenix Suns to help players prevent and recover from inury. Our medical team just doesn’t take it seriously enuff.
Totally agree about the Suns staff. This team clearly has no idea how to evaluate talent or keep them healthy. Bring in the Suns staff and if you’re gonna overpay someone, overpay for the Marlins scouts!
You make great points. We can vie with the Phillies pitching, even with what’s left on the market. But we have got to move quickly. i’d sign Marquis, Sheets, Capps, Carrasco…and/or Wang. Sign Bay or trade for Crawford or sign Cust (last resort). Can we trade Castillo atthis point? Would love to, but beginning to doubt that it’s possible. Maybe sign Garko to pair with Murphy.
and/or look to see if Arroyo is available.
you dont trade castillo!!!!! talk all u want about that one bad year, but he definitely made it up and he still looks good on the field, whether you want to believe it or not
Apparently Marquis now wants to play mentor to the Nats young staff – as per MLBtraderumors. The NY Mets, we make the Nats look like a winner!
I think this trade might hurt the Phillies more than it would help them. Halladay isn’t much better than Lee. Plus they are giving up Drabek who can turn out to be a very good pitcher. I really don’t get the point of this trade. All they are doing is slightly upgrading an already strong postion and giving up their top prospect.
This trade makes no sense in spite of many calling Amaro a genius. He has traded 6 of his top prospects for a 1/2 year rental on Lee and 4 years of a pitcher that is way older than Lee. Remember Halliday has to hit know and he will be held to a higher standard by Philly fans who enjoyed watching Lee this year in playoffs. Can Halliday handle that pressure cooker in Philly? Phillies did not get better but gave up a lot of their future IMO.
What it does is give the Phillies the same production as Lee would have given them, but for millions less. Yes they gave up their top prospect, but they got quite a few good prospects back. In the end, it freed up money for more moves/extensions to their players.
Whats also interesting to me is that the phillies were able to give away 7 prospects and get back Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay. Mets cant even give away major league talent for 3rd tier players!
the phillies did this to secure an ace. Doc wants to be there and he will sign a decent contract for 3 yrs and i dont think lee wanted to do that, i.e. the reason they got rid of him. Doc will do great but he only gets 33 starts at the most and with that park, his numbers will change, even if its a bit, they will change for the worse.
Make a note of this: Cliff Lee will be in Seattle, he is there for one year. what if the Mariners dont do too well and become sellers at the deadline? do they trade him away? now (this is just a thought)what if the mets are still in it and need another starter to help them down the stretch? do they take a shot and try to win? this trade changes a lot of things, for a lot of teams if seattle doesnt do too well, and i really think they wont compete like they believe….
now back to the mets: john maine looked great at the end of the year. let the guy rest and work on his conditioning this winter. maybe change a few things mechanically that might be putting too much pressure on a certain part of his arm.
Oli was hurt and horrible, but hes here two more years and you cant dump the salary so you let him go out there and let him fight for what is his. and if not, you bite the bullet and see if he does any better in the pen.
Pelf needs some rest. i think he felt there was too much pressure on him this past year. he was definitely rushed through the minors but i think he can definitely improve. i want to see how he does and if he improves, maybe we can get something in a trade for him midseason(i say this with the idea of being in contention, which is not a crazy thought at all)
i know moves were made by many teams this week, but u cant loose it. you cant count out this team in december. let guys get healthy and get in shape. i think people are most upset because there are no expectations for this team and people want to see this team compared with the best. It is a very good thing, i believe. reporters and writers are counting them out but as a fan, you cant. these teams feed off of the fans and you better believe i will try my best to be at citi on opening day, rooting for my damn New York Mets!!!!!!
I don’t believe. This team has extinguished any and all faith I have. That being said, I’ve been on this damn site, metsblog, twitter, and all over for Mets news on and off all day for weeks. I’ll definitely be watching on opening day with all the other suckers too. Thing is, will I be watching in the summer/fall?
3 moves the Mets must make:
1. Look in the mirror – If you really look at our current roster, and farm, reality is this team won’t make the playoffs the next 2 seasons, and more importantly, cannot compete far a championship. Which is the ultimate goal when building a team. One that can “Compete” for a championship. therefore the Mets must
2. Destroy
3. and REBUILD.
I’d move everyone other than Reyes and Wright with my eye on 2012 as a year we can start making a run at a title.
But our owners are dumb and they’ll sign Bay and some mediocre pitchers and we’ll get to watch an emotionless team win around 80 games and finish 10 games out of first place. Sounds like fun. Can’t wait to get my season tixx!!!!!
Sound about right. Mets and Phillies should have essentially the same payroll next year. Take a look at the marked difference btw the teams. Not all of that is due to bad luck! Its mostly gross incompetence!
Mets goal for 2010:
Meaningful games in May.
Ed, Sorry, but I cannot agree with your basic conclusion that the Mets and Phils staffs are evenly matched. The Phils are ahead in SP’s.
Here’s how I see it:
1. Santana / Halladay – even
2. Pelfrey / Hamels – edge Hamels
3. Maine / Blanton – Blanton no contest
4. Happ / Perez – Happ without doubt
5. Moyer / ? – Moyer beats nobody
With an undetermined Mets #5, Ollie still needing to prove he can pitch for methal reasons, ditto with Maine for physical reasons, there is no question that the Phils staff is more solid. That changes if it turns out Happ was rolled up in the Halladay trade, but very unlikely.
Omar needs to get cracking on picking up Marquis to make some headway on this.