Comments on: Jeff Francoeur Is Indeed A Keeper http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:16:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sean Schirmer http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32661 Sean Schirmer Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:49:51 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32661 You wrote: "In 287 at-bats, Francoeur finished the season with a .311 batting average, a .498 slugging, and his .836 OPS was the highest since his rookie year..." Are you being intentionally misleading, or are you just confused? Francouer in fact "finished the season", in 593 ABs, with a .280 batting average, a .423 slugging percentage, and a .732 OPS, well below average for a corner OFer and very near the bottom among RFers in 2009. THAT'S why so many of us don't want to sign Francoeur for 2010, let along give him a long term deal for the insane price you suggest. He's NOT a good baseball player. Last year he was one of the worst starting OFers in the major leagues. Why is this so hard for you to understand? You wrote:

“In 287 at-bats, Francoeur finished the season with a .311 batting average, a .498 slugging, and his .836 OPS was the highest since his rookie year…”

Are you being intentionally misleading, or are you just confused? Francouer in fact “finished the season”, in 593 ABs, with a .280 batting average, a .423 slugging percentage, and a .732 OPS, well below average for a corner OFer and very near the bottom among RFers in 2009.

THAT’S why so many of us don’t want to sign Francoeur for 2010, let along give him a long term deal for the insane price you suggest. He’s NOT a good baseball player. Last year he was one of the worst starting OFers in the major leagues. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

]]> By: J_Rod_ http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32615 J_Rod_ Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:40:38 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32615 Ignorant and moronic, huh? You just gave me stats for French, his on base percentage, his this, his that for '09 and say it was just lucky? I could of sworn that French's worst season was last year? Wright supposed to be the heart of the team and been very inconsistant. Tell me has been consistant? What groupies. No you're entertaining me. You're not proving anything. Ignorant and moronic, huh? You just gave me stats for French, his on base percentage, his this, his that for ’09 and say it was just lucky? I could of sworn that French’s worst season was last year? Wright supposed to be the heart of the team and been very inconsistant. Tell me has been consistant? What groupies. No you’re entertaining me. You’re not proving anything.

]]> By: Kay http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32609 Kay Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:02:54 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32609 Chavez missed an entire year to injury last year - have we NOT learned anything from injuries? Come on and to say "Look, I don’t hate Francoeur, and I want him to succeed, but the fact of the matter is that he probably won’t do that well." You can't use FACT and PROBABLY in the same sentence and convince me that there are some out there that just want him to fail to say "I told you so". This thread and all the negativity towards a 25 year old that has already had two 100+RBI seasons, is not only unnecessary, but a waste of time (my fault for continuting to debate with probably and fact of the matter) Chavez missed an entire year to injury last year – have we NOT learned anything from injuries? Come on and to say “Look, I don’t hate Francoeur, and I want him to succeed, but the fact of the matter is that he probably won’t do that well.”

You can’t use FACT and PROBABLY in the same sentence and convince me that there are some out there that just want him to fail to say “I told you so”.

This thread and all the negativity towards a 25 year old that has already had two 100+RBI seasons, is not only unnecessary, but a waste of time (my fault for continuting to debate with probably and fact of the matter)

]]> By: metsgod97 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32605 metsgod97 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:00:30 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32605 yes, but his great defense is usually about 15 runs, or 1.5 WAR. That's what Francoeur will probably contribute, and Endy can be had for much cheaper than Francoeur. Look, I don't hate Francoeur, and I want him to succeed, but the fact of the matter is that he probably won't do that well. 289 PA's is way too small of a sample size, and his previous 1,000 or so PA's don't so much potential. yes, but his great defense is usually about 15 runs, or 1.5 WAR. That’s what Francoeur will probably contribute, and Endy can be had for much cheaper than Francoeur.
Look, I don’t hate Francoeur, and I want him to succeed, but the fact of the matter is that he probably won’t do that well. 289 PA’s is way too small of a sample size, and his previous 1,000 or so PA’s don’t so much potential.

]]> By: Evan_S http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32602 Evan_S Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:52:44 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32602 Wow. I love how I've backed up my argument with facts and you with nothing but opinion. I don't believe I ever called David Wright God, but I certainly am entertained by your ignorant, moronic, and childish comments. You lost, you have nothing to back up your perceptions. You have no facts, no statistics, no expert opinion, just flawed opinion. Wow. I love how I’ve backed up my argument with facts and you with nothing but opinion. I don’t believe I ever called David Wright God, but I certainly am entertained by your ignorant, moronic, and childish comments. You lost, you have nothing to back up your perceptions. You have no facts, no statistics, no expert opinion, just flawed opinion.

]]> By: J_Rod_ http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32597 J_Rod_ Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:28:10 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32597 See I'm not just talking about three games. He plays hard everytime he's out there. Once you go out there and play like this guys is playing as rookie, you can set you up for a bright future. He's playing better than most of the veterans are. See I’m not just talking about three games. He plays hard everytime he’s out there. Once you go out there and play like this guys is playing as rookie, you can set you up for a bright future. He’s playing better than most of the veterans are.

]]> By: J_Rod_ http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32596 J_Rod_ Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:24:34 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32596 Well, keep on believing that Wright is God. Well, keep on believing that Wright is God.

]]> By: Metsgod97 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32594 Metsgod97 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:56:21 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32594 Oh, and being on World Series teams being irrelevant: IT IS A TEAM GAME YOU STUPID STUPID PERSON. YOU CAN BE A GREAT PLAYER AND NEVER GET TO THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THE REST OF YOUR TEAM SUCKS. DO YOU GET THIS? SO THE FACT THAT DAVID ECKSTEIN HAS A WORLD SERIES RING, DOES THAT MAKE HIM BETTER THAN DAVID WRIGHT OR JOSE REYES? my God you are an idiot. Also learn about what you criticize. "OU DON'T WIN AT THE BIG SHOW BY WHO'S BASE RUNS, RUNS CREATED OR WIN SHARES ARE BETTER" This article (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ops-for-the-masses/) shows that those stats correlate much better with runs scoring than your precious batting average. And also, I never said Sean Green was a hall of famer. I said he was average, you douche. Oh, and being on World Series teams being irrelevant:
IT IS A TEAM GAME YOU STUPID STUPID PERSON. YOU CAN BE A GREAT PLAYER AND NEVER GET TO THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THE REST OF YOUR TEAM SUCKS. DO YOU GET THIS? SO THE FACT THAT DAVID ECKSTEIN HAS A WORLD SERIES RING, DOES THAT MAKE HIM BETTER THAN DAVID WRIGHT OR JOSE REYES?
my God you are an idiot.
Also learn about what you criticize. “OU DON’T WIN AT THE BIG SHOW BY WHO’S BASE RUNS, RUNS CREATED OR WIN SHARES ARE BETTER” This article (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ops-for-the-masses/) shows that those stats correlate much better with runs scoring than your precious batting average. And also, I never said Sean Green was a hall of famer. I said he was average, you douche.

]]> By: Kay http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32593 Kay Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:56:05 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32593 Endy Chavez? Seriously - now you're just making things up - he's a GREAT defender yes, but he hits a hair better then Schneider...... Endy Chavez? Seriously – now you’re just making things up – he’s a GREAT defender yes, but he hits a hair better then Schneider……

]]> By: Metsgod97 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32592 Metsgod97 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:51:56 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32592 Better Outfielders than Jeff Francoeur who are available: Endy Chavez Hideki Matsui Johnny Damon And available possibly through trade: Milton Bradley That enough for your stupid brain? By the way, ti has been proven that strikeouts cost less in run value than other outs (Because, ya know, you can't hit into a double play when you strikeout) Better Outfielders than Jeff Francoeur who are available:
Endy Chavez
Hideki Matsui
Johnny Damon
And available possibly through trade: Milton Bradley
That enough for your stupid brain?
By the way, ti has been proven that strikeouts cost less in run value than other outs (Because, ya know, you can’t hit into a double play when you strikeout)

]]> By: Metsgod97 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32591 Metsgod97 Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:47:50 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32591 Congrats. You just said a totally stereotypical comment about latinos. By the way, none of the "Los Mets" have ever said anything about their numbers. So Carlos Beltran is not a gamer because he goes on the DL with no knee cartilage yet comes back and plays, still with no knee cartilage. Congrats. You just said a totally stereotypical comment about latinos. By the way, none of the “Los Mets” have ever said anything about their numbers. So Carlos Beltran is not a gamer because he goes on the DL with no knee cartilage yet comes back and plays, still with no knee cartilage.

]]> By: Evan_S http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32585 Evan_S Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:39:18 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32585 "He is the opposite of the “Los Mets”, a team filled with players who worry about their stats and break down in September when you need them most." Wow. How do you know exactly that the "Los Mets," by which you mean Latinos, only cared about stats. Hell, Francoeur said he would quit baseball if he had any shot at a country music career. Had Reyes said something like that, you'd all be calling him a quitter and not a team first guy. What makes him a gamer, and Reyes or Beltran not a gamer. Please enlighten me. Is the first rule of being a gamer sucking or being white? Well it has to be sucking because Wright's white and not a gamer. “He is the opposite of the “Los Mets”, a team filled with players who worry about their stats and break down in September when you need them most.”

Wow. How do you know exactly that the “Los Mets,” by which you mean Latinos, only cared about stats. Hell, Francoeur said he would quit baseball if he had any shot at a country music career. Had Reyes said something like that, you’d all be calling him a quitter and not a team first guy. What makes him a gamer, and Reyes or Beltran not a gamer. Please enlighten me. Is the first rule of being a gamer sucking or being white? Well it has to be sucking because Wright’s white and not a gamer.

]]> By: tlagee http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32584 tlagee Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:22:44 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32584 This article confused me - I think the majority of Mets fans by a wide margin love Jeff Francouer. He's a gamer. He is the opposite of the "Los Mets", a team filled with players who worry about their stats and break down in September when you need them most. I'm begining to believe that now may be the time to see what we can get for Carlos Beltran. He's still a great fielder and hitter - but he's aging. How many good years does he have left? Trade him now and get a bunch in return. This article confused me – I think the majority of Mets fans by a wide margin love Jeff Francouer. He’s a gamer.

He is the opposite of the “Los Mets”, a team filled with players who worry about their stats and break down in September when you need them most.

I’m begining to believe that now may be the time to see what we can get for Carlos Beltran. He’s still a great fielder and hitter – but he’s aging. How many good years does he have left? Trade him now and get a bunch in return.

]]> By: Evan_S http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32582 Evan_S Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:41:17 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32582 This sums it up perfectly. Sports have to be looked at over an extended period, over large sample sizes. Three game in any sport that's not football is so minuscule, it's irrelevant. Even the worst player in baseball or basketball can have a great few games, or even one great season. You have to look at all the data available, not just the most recent. This sums it up perfectly. Sports have to be looked at over an extended period, over large sample sizes. Three game in any sport that’s not football is so minuscule, it’s irrelevant. Even the worst player in baseball or basketball can have a great few games, or even one great season. You have to look at all the data available, not just the most recent.

]]> By: Evan_S http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32581 Evan_S Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:36:03 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32581 08 Wright was much better than 06 Wright. David played pretty poorly in the second half of 06. And this whole thing "when it counted" is bull. A home run in the second is worth the same as one in the ninth, the one in the ninth just looks better. The bullpen sucked in 07 and 08 not Wright, not Reyes, and not Beltran. The problem with the team is the surrounding guys, not the core. And lastly, you keep talking about the supporting cast, you realize that baseball is largely an individual sport, right? On defense there is some teamwork, but on offense there is only the hitter and the base runner(s) and they never interact with each other unless one makes a mistake. Even then, the interaction is an instant out. The offense can't help each other get a hit or anything like that. You can't blame Wright for the teams failings, that is complete ignorance. 08 Wright was much better than 06 Wright. David played pretty poorly in the second half of 06. And this whole thing “when it counted” is bull. A home run in the second is worth the same as one in the ninth, the one in the ninth just looks better. The bullpen sucked in 07 and 08 not Wright, not Reyes, and not Beltran. The problem with the team is the surrounding guys, not the core. And lastly, you keep talking about the supporting cast, you realize that baseball is largely an individual sport, right? On defense there is some teamwork, but on offense there is only the hitter and the base runner(s) and they never interact with each other unless one makes a mistake. Even then, the interaction is an instant out. The offense can’t help each other get a hit or anything like that. You can’t blame Wright for the teams failings, that is complete ignorance.

]]> By: Evan_S http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32580 Evan_S Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:28:09 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32580 Fans were calling for him to be traded because they're complete idiots who know nothing about baseball or logic for that matter. And you're right, David sucked in September of 07 and 08, that I will concede. I mean look at these paltry statistics. September 2007: .352/.432/.602 (1.034 OPS) 6 HRs, 9 2Bs, 4 SB (1 CS), 20 RsBI September 2008: .340/.416/.577 (.993 OPS) 6 HRs, 5 2Bs, 1 SB, 21 RsBI First off, Wright has as much "grit" and "heart" as anyone, as does Beltran and Reyes, at least in the way people talk about it. Wright came back after a concussion to play meaningless games in the worst season of his career. He could have sat out, but he has passion for the game. Same with Beltran, he could have sat out September, but he was cleared to play and did, all while having bone on bone bruises on his knees. And Reyes tried to return just to play one more game but wasn't cleared to. You know what all of that mean. Nothing. Grit and heart and passion mean nothing. As long as a talented player goes out hand plays to his minimum ability, he will always be more valuable than a non talented player no matter how hard that talentless player tries. Anyone who thinks the Mets should trade Wright, Reyes, or Beltran for under performing or whatever is an idiot. From 06-08 they were all top 15 players in baseball. I bet you think a guy like A-rod was a choker who just happened to have a good post season this year. Give a player an infinite chance in any situation, and they will perform to their talent level. Situation does not dictate skill. Fans were calling for him to be traded because they’re complete idiots who know nothing about baseball or logic for that matter. And you’re right, David sucked in September of 07 and 08, that I will concede. I mean look at these paltry statistics.

September 2007: .352/.432/.602 (1.034 OPS) 6 HRs, 9 2Bs, 4 SB (1 CS), 20 RsBI
September 2008: .340/.416/.577 (.993 OPS) 6 HRs, 5 2Bs, 1 SB, 21 RsBI

First off, Wright has as much “grit” and “heart” as anyone, as does Beltran and Reyes, at least in the way people talk about it. Wright came back after a concussion to play meaningless games in the worst season of his career. He could have sat out, but he has passion for the game. Same with Beltran, he could have sat out September, but he was cleared to play and did, all while having bone on bone bruises on his knees. And Reyes tried to return just to play one more game but wasn’t cleared to. You know what all of that mean. Nothing. Grit and heart and passion mean nothing. As long as a talented player goes out hand plays to his minimum ability, he will always be more valuable than a non talented player no matter how hard that talentless player tries. Anyone who thinks the Mets should trade Wright, Reyes, or Beltran for under performing or whatever is an idiot. From 06-08 they were all top 15 players in baseball.

I bet you think a guy like A-rod was a choker who just happened to have a good post season this year. Give a player an infinite chance in any situation, and they will perform to their talent level. Situation does not dictate skill.

]]> By: J_Rod_ http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32577 J_Rod_ Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:39 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32577 I understand that Evan and you make valid points. But those are just stats. You trying to tell me a '08 David was better than a '06 David? Yes, I understand he had a supporting cast in '06, but the Wright for the past two years...I don't know know what to say. Will he get better next year if we get those supporting players, maybe, but you can't talk about Frenchy's stats and say he was lucky and then say Wright's numbers in '08 was great when he really didn't do anything special when it counted. I understand that Evan and you make valid points. But those are just stats. You trying to tell me a ’08 David was better than a ’06 David? Yes, I understand he had a supporting cast in ’06, but the Wright for the past two years…I don’t know know what to say. Will he get better next year if we get those supporting players, maybe, but you can’t talk about Frenchy’s stats and say he was lucky and then say Wright’s numbers in ’08 was great when he really didn’t do anything special when it counted.

]]> By: J_Rod_ http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32576 J_Rod_ Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:31:05 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32576 So if Wright put up all those stats, why was Met fan's asking for him to be traded? Why didn't those stats show up when it mattered, down the stretch in '08? Where was he in Milwaukee in those final games when Delgado hit that hr in the right field seats in '08? What about the final game in '07 against the Marlins? What about the Game against the Marlins at shea when Santana shut down the Marlins? I know, it's a team effort, that would be yor excuse. So you trying to tell me in those situations,French wouldn't have made something happen? See that's the difference. You could throw around all those stats and it doesn't mean nothing. We need gritt and that's what French provides. David use to come through a lot, but what happened now? I'm not saying he's a wast, but if you want to talk about French or Reyes being traded, why not guys like David or Beltran? So if Wright put up all those stats, why was Met fan’s asking for him to be traded? Why didn’t those stats show up when it mattered, down the stretch in ’08? Where was he in Milwaukee in those final games when Delgado hit that hr in the right field seats in ’08? What about the final game in ’07 against the Marlins? What about the Game against the Marlins at shea when Santana shut down the Marlins? I know, it’s a team effort, that would be yor excuse. So you trying to tell me in those situations,French wouldn’t have made something happen? See that’s the difference. You could throw around all those stats and it doesn’t mean nothing. We need gritt and that’s what French provides. David use to come through a lot, but what happened now? I’m not saying he’s a wast, but if you want to talk about French or Reyes being traded, why not guys like David or Beltran?

]]> By: Evan_S http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32572 Evan_S Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:24:28 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32572 Two years? His 09 was bad by his standards, still good, just not great, but he was spectacular in 08. .302/.390/.534 is a great line. 33 homers, 42 doubles. He was one of the top 5 hitters in baseball in 08! I mean, you think David Wright in 08 was bad, but Francoeur in 09 was good? That is utterly insane. David Wright is literally 100x the player Franoeur will ever be. Two years? His 09 was bad by his standards, still good, just not great, but he was spectacular in 08. .302/.390/.534 is a great line. 33 homers, 42 doubles. He was one of the top 5 hitters in baseball in 08! I mean, you think David Wright in 08 was bad, but Francoeur in 09 was good? That is utterly insane. David Wright is literally 100x the player Franoeur will ever be.

]]> By: Kay http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/jeff-francoeur-is-indeed-a-keeper.html#comment-32571 Kay Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:20:06 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=15975#comment-32571 Nady is coming off his second Tommy John surgery and we've seen him once, did a nice job, but forgot how to hit with RISP. Milton Bradly - just what this team needs - a head case and a quitter, CoCo Crisp - weren't the Sox willing to give him away for a box of balls? COME ON - Nady is coming off his second Tommy John surgery and we’ve seen him once, did a nice job, but forgot how to hit with RISP. Milton Bradly – just what this team needs – a head case and a quitter, CoCo Crisp – weren’t the Sox willing to give him away for a box of balls?

COME ON -

]]>