14
2009
Jeff Francoeur Is Indeed A Keeper
An article by 
As you may have heard, Bart Hubbuch of the NY Post reported that rightfielder Jeff Francoeur will return to the Mets and speculated that Minaya may even sign him to an extension, something that Minaya previously alluded to last month.
You can imagine the uproar all over the Mets blogosphere as they react to such devastating news. Luckily, the Mets don’t concern themselves with such mindless mutterings, and instead did exactly what they needed to do.
The speculation on sites like MLBTR that Francoeur was a non-tender candidate was very odd at best, especially coming from a site that prides itself on providing all the buzz. I guess they never tuned into the Mets buzz on Francoeur. If they had they would have known that all the signals included glowing comments from the players, to Jerry Manuel, to Omar Minaya, and to everyone in the front office. “When you mention Jeff Francoeur’s name”, one beat writer reported, “the Mets get all giddy”.
Even when they had to report the news that Francoeur would be tendered, observe how it was presented:
Cross Jeff Francoeur off the list of non-tender candidates – Minaya said Francoeur will be back and also mentioned that an extension is a possibility. Mets fans – do you believe Francoeur’s 308 plate appearances with the club represent a reformed hitter?
No doubt a loaded question that wreaks with bias. A reformed hitter? The guy is 25 years old! I don’t really have anything against MLBTR which is one of the best sources for hot stove news anywhere, but I wanted to illustrate the depth of the growing animosity toward Francoeur. When Hubbuch reported on the Mets tenders, it also included tendering Sean Green and his 4.54 ERA, 4 losses, 3 blown saves, and his 54/35 k/bb rate. However, nary a peep about that situation.
At first I thought this animosity was limited to a couple of great Mets sites that I happen to disagree with on this one matter, but it has grown exponentially since then and gone completely viral.
In fact, I can’t think of another hitter right now, who is a greater target of the advanced metrics crowd than Jeff Francoeur. While I embrace advanced metrics more and more each day, one of the turnoffs is how their most devoted disciples believe these metrics are the “end-all” when evaluating a player. Any human emotion, perception, or use of our God given senses is considered blasphemy.
Why is Francoeur not given any credit for what he did since coming to the Mets?
Why must his performance be simply whisked away simply because it went against the predictions of doom, gloom and failure by the sabermetric crowd?
Has it become so hard for Mets fans to root for their own?
We won a World Series with Ron Swoboda in rightfield, and yet we have someone infinitely better and most choose to despise his very presence on this team.
How many times have we said that we need role players on the Mets, and that we can’t afford to put a superstar at every position? Doesn’t Francoeur at the very least fill that role? Can’t he be the Mets version of a Pedro Feliz or Matt Diaz?
How many times have we wished for a clubhouse leader and for someone to finally show some fight and some heart?
I’ve been a big Francoeur supporter since day one, mostly because of the barrage of attacks on him that followed the trade. All of a sudden I saw him as an underdog with the deck clearly stacked against him. As a lifelong Mets fan it was only a natural instinct to embrace him and root for him to succeed.
Francoeur came here with no welcome mat or red carpet rolled out for him. He left Atlanta under the worst of circumstances and arrived in New York to a mob mentality of anger and resentment from the Mets blogosphere. Failcoeur T-Shirts were hot sellers and suddenly Mets fans and Braves fans were best the best of friends instead of rivals. Their disdain for Francoeur binded them in an uncanny way and it became a unifying force. (I wanted to throw up at the time.)
At 25 years old, Frenchy ignored the obvious railing against him and instead he focused on a new opportunity and a chance to consider his last few years and figure out what went wrong. From day one, Francoeur was thrilled to become a Met and he made sure everyone knew it too. And unlike the money motivated love for New York muttered by Sabathia and Burnett, Francoeur actually meant it.
Within weeks he quickly became a vital part of the team chemistry. His teammates and manager had all embraced him, and in the meantime he was wielding a hot bat that some mistook for a hot streak. As the Mets continued to sink in the standings, his influence in the clubhouse kept rising as he does and says the right things and encourages his teammates to keep playing hard and fighting. ”If not for a pennant, than do it for pride in ourselves as baseball players, and for pride in the team name emblazoned across our chests.”
Then one day as fate would have it, Francoeur tears the ligaments in his thumb while making a diving catch. The next day an MRI confirmed the diagnosis and Francoeur missed his first game ever due to an injury. While the Mets considered their options which included season ending surgery, Francoeur ended any talk of a DL stint or surgery and said he would play with the injury and take care of it in the offseason. “Tape me up and do whatever it takes to get me into the game today.”
At the time Francoeur was hitting .308 with six home runs and 24 RBI in 39 games.
While playing with the injured thumb, Francoeur continued his torrid pace at the plate through the end of the season and ultimately led the Mets in homeruns, RBIs, slugging percentage, and total bases during that stretch.
All of the soothsayers who waited for him to flop, never got their chance to say, “I told you so.” You can imagine their frustration at the thought of someone beating their statistical prophecies. So now their new mantra is that 308 plate appearances is a small sample size. And yet a smaller sample size was good enough to proclaim Daniel Murphy the everyday leftfielder a year ago. Do you see what I’m getting at?
In 287 at-bats, Francoeur finished the season with a .311 batting average, a .498 slugging, and his .836 OPS was the highest since his rookie year when the former first round pick and BA’s top five pick, was the hottest prospect in baseball and even got his own cover on Sports Illustrated dubbed, “The Natural”.
Looking at the matter from a financial perspective, it makes sense to give Francoeur an extension and buy out his remaining years of arbitration and possibly one year of free agency. If by chance I’m right, and Francoeur continues doing what he has always done since donning the Mets uniform, he could makes as much as $10 million in 2011, and $14 million in 2012. As it stands now, if the Mets could get him to sign a three year deal for $15-$18 million dollars, wouldn’t that make perfect sense… and dollars and cents too? We’re always crying about not getting value and not using foresight to buy low in anticipation of a high level of performance, well here’s the chance to do it and yet because the name is Francoeur all of a sudden nobody wants to do the fiscally responsible thing.
I can go on and on and continue this rant which has already far exceeded the number of words I intended to write, but at least I was able to give you some of my pros on why tendering Francoeur was great idea, and why I applaud the Mets for it. You can go just about anywhere else if you want to read the cons. They won’t be too difficult to find.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
Went to my first Mets game, a Mayors Trophy game at Shea, in '73. We beat the Yankees 8-4 and I was hooked. I marched in two Banner Day parades, and before the Grand Slam single, there was the "Hendu Can Do" grand slam - I was there. I've collected Mets memorabilia all my life and started Mets Merized Online to feed my addiction.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nationals | 26 | 18 | .591 | - |
| Braves | 26 | 20 | .565 | 1.0 |
| Mets | 24 | 21 | .533 | 2.5 |
| Marlins | 24 | 21 | .533 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 23 | 23 | .500 | 4.0 |
Last updated: 05/25/2012
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Fracnoeur was one of like 4 players who never went on the Dl. He might get strikeouts more than other players but come on right feild is all wrapped why fix the one part of the mets that ain’t broke
funny thing about the Frenchy perception is his strikeouts…yes, he doesn’t walk alot; just like Reyes didn’t walk alot either originally…However, neither Reyes or Frenchy particularly strikeout at an alarming rate either…
Frenchy had 92 strikeouts last season in almost 600 at bats; and the year before had 111 strikeouts in almost 600 at bats…By comparison, David Wright had 140 strikeouts in 535 at bats…
Frenchy is a solid “1st pitch” hitter; batting .372 with a .584 slugging percentage on the first pitch (semi-like Moises Alou); however he loses his effectiveness as he gets 2 strikes on him…Whereas, Wright is obviously more confident in his ability to hit deeper in the count; maintaining a .871 OPS with a full count…
You wrote:
“In 287 at-bats, Francoeur finished the season with a .311 batting average, a .498 slugging, and his .836 OPS was the highest since his rookie year…”
Are you being intentionally misleading, or are you just confused? Francouer in fact “finished the season”, in 593 ABs, with a .280 batting average, a .423 slugging percentage, and a .732 OPS, well below average for a corner OFer and very near the bottom among RFers in 2009.
THAT’S why so many of us don’t want to sign Francoeur for 2010, let along give him a long term deal for the insane price you suggest. He’s NOT a good baseball player. Last year he was one of the worst starting OFers in the major leagues. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
People don’t believe that stats like WAR are the end all be all. There are better players than Jeff Francoeur who could play in right.
Oh, and Sean Green is cheap, unlike Francoeur, if he’s given an extension.
There are better players that can play catcher and first base and second base and half the spots in the rotation. What’s your point? I can say the same thing about any Mets including Wright.
what I meant is that there are better players on the Mets (Angel Pagan) or available cheaply (Endy Chavez) who are better than Francoer
While Chavez is a very good defensive player, he can’t hit out of a paper bag, his bat is awful
Castillo, Perez, Pelrey, and Santana are under contract for next season, so their spots are filled (unless we can move them). None of the catchers, first basemen, right/left fielders, ar other rotation spots have a contracted player yet (meaning that there is nothing stopping us from adding better players there). The Mets shouldn’t tender Francoeur a contract if they felt they could get better value on the free agent market, as he is not contracted for next season yet.
You may be sensible enough to know that, but there are plenty who do believe it’s the end all/be all. Thanks for commenting.
a fanpost on Amazin Avenue talks about this subject a little
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/11/14/1157031/in-response-to-a-poster-on-silvas
He embodies many of the traits I like in a player, which I understand are immeasurable and therefore subjective. I just hope that if I’m right that all the detractors will remember I liked him from the start. And if by chance I’m wrong I’ll be the first to cop to it. Hopefully, all Mets fans will be keeping their fingers crossed and hoping that I am right even though they disagree. Otherwise what kind of Mets fans are they?
No one is rooting for him to fail. Sensible fans are justifiably questioning talk of giving him a contract extension. There’s no reason to extend him when you can go year to year. I think even you can agree on that.
Yuck. I will log on to MMO next season after Francoeur hits .270/.290/.380 in April and May to read about how the resurgent tandem of David Wright and Jose Reyes need to step their game up.
No need to wait until April. David Wright and Jose Reyes need to step their game up.
LMAO, who didn’t see that coming.
.290 OBP? You’re a little optimistic. I’m going .230/.250/.290
Francoeur sucks.
Thaks for playing…………
and winning
Winning what? The wrongness award.
Sorry – Francouer far from sucks.
So whats worse than Suck?
The hatred of Francour is purely emotional (ironic, since it comes from people who try to pretend they’re more rational that Mr. Spock in their analysis). It really bothers the sabrmetric crowd that someone can be a solid major leaguer despite the fact he doesn’t fit into their equations.
Francour is an emotional issue for them, since it means that their analysis methods are flawed. They are so emotionally invested in the numbers that any real-world example that contradicts their beliefs needs to be ostracized. In this, sabrmetricians are like any other religious cult. It isn’t possible for them to conceive that the numbers are wrong, so the problem has to be the player.
Please, do me a favor, name one cult that has ever used math and/or science in their belief. The very idea of a cult and religion in general is to brainwash people with perception of the world that is not true, telling people to believe something without any fact or logic behind the belief. You say he hustles, that is your perception, it’s not right, it’s not wrong, it’s your perception. And whether or not he hustles makes no difference, he can work harder than anyone who has ever played, but he’s still bad.
When I say Francoeur, and yes, your savior spells his name with an “e” in there, is a bad baseball player, I can back that up with stuff like his paltry OBP, his batting average that horrific from 08-July 09. When someone tells me he batted .311 for the Mets, I can then point to the small sample size of the number, as well as his BABIP (a luck based stat) which was ~40 points higher than his career norm, raising his average.
The point of sabermetrics is to study all the factual data we have on player. Not one of us is qualified enough to make statements about a player based on what we see, we’re not scouts, we don’t notice the little nuances of a players game. And even those who are scouts make mistakes, it’s human, personal bias always comes into play no matter how objective you try to be. Using advanced stats, we learn things about players that we otherwise would never know.
The only cult in all of this is those who refuse to utilize every tool available, including advancing statistics.
I can understand everybody’s concern after the Mets traded for Francoeur but what I can’t understand is how most of those who hated the trade still do even after Francoeur gave the Mets a solid debut. I’ve never seen as much animosity towards a Mets player since Mota. At least with Mota it was deserved, but what has Francoeur done since joining the Mets to deserve such disdain? He’s been a model citizen, a productive player, a good leader and a good teammate. What more do you want?
That’s what I dont understand either. Mota disappointed and cost us a dozen games in a season in which we missed the playoffs by just one game. The animosity against Francoeur rivals that of Mota and it makes no sense because all he did was come here and produce at a greater level than the bench jockey he replaced, Ryan Church, who by the way actually will be NON TENDERED.
Keep battling that straw man.
I cant help myself James, as you know I’ve loved the acquisition from the word go. I just continue to believe that he can still be the player Sickels and company believed him to be. At 25, I’m not ready to toss in the towel on the lone bright spot in a dismal season.
I think you misinterpreted my comment. Read up on the topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
But the topic was that Francoeur is indeed a keeper and I explained why I felt the Mets were making a good decision to tender him and an even better one to buy out his arbitration years if in fact they do.
As for how much he makes, they are all overpaid and the arbitration system is flawed and outdated. But it’s the only game in town right now and that’s just the way it is.
To non tender Francoeur so we can pay him 3.5 million instead of 5 million would mean to risk losing him to another team. A decision that that would now give the Mets another hole on a team with so many already. The only other option, and it’s a good one is to cap him at 5 million with a 3 year 15 million dollar deal. That was my suggestion.
You may not feel he is not worth the risk because we are on opposite sides of the spectrum as to his future worth and value. But if I believe the best is yet to come, that stance would only lead me to buying out his arby years and saving the Mets a more costly contract in the future.
I hope I explained that well.
You can never accept a 2-3 year deal because you don’t see him the way I do, and that is perfectly fine.
I on the other hand view him as a potential core player, and think it would be prudent of the Mets to extend him.
That hole could be filled rather easily with Pagan in right was better than Francoeur for the Mets this season.
C’mon Joe. I know you love the guy and will do/say anything to praise him but be rational here. We have no idea what to expect from him going forward and he was among the worst (if not the worst) players in baseball in ’08 and the first half of ’09. There’s just no reason to give a contract extension to him. Would you have bought out Daniel Murphy’s arbitration years after his hot 2008 season in limited plate appearances? No, of course not.
What’s more, I think you realize it’s a bad idea. However, since you’ve made this your personal crusade of course you’re going to say you want to extend him.
Also for the record I never said I want to non-tender him.
There are plenty of better cheaper options then Francoeur on the free agent market, so it is a “risk” worth taking.
OK, Metsgod, explain to me how you can say that with a stright face. Angel Pagan is a BENCH PLAYER! Has been, even when he started with the Cubs! And I LOVE Endy (to the point of even wanting to trade for him this season), but he’s a bench player too.
Secondly, both are singles-to-doubles hitters and the highest RBI total (which, in case you forgot, means that they plate the guys who get on in front of them) is 47!! I’ll let you look up whose career RBI total is better. Let’s not even talk about age/injury. So let’s not put those two in the same class of hitter with Francouer. I’m with JoeD: CAN SOMEBODY ON THIS BLOG OPEN THIER EYES AND STOP LOOKING AT BOOKS???!!!
Yes, he strikes out more than you would like but remember this: He played 157 games between the Braves and Mets (even when he was hurt like JoeD said) and he struck out a GRAND TOTAL of 92 times, the second lowest total in his career. Jayson Werth (of THAT team), struck out 156 times in 159 games! Remember Ryan Howard?! Nick Swisher struck out 126 times in 150 games. I’m pretty sure that without the obvious connections, you would have at least two of those guys on your team.
And unless my eyes decived me, they were all on World Series teams that (gasp!) had hitters that knew how to drive people in. Because, at the end of the day, all your little numbers mean absolutely jack when your facing elimination and you need to fight back or your ahead and your trying to put you foot on someone’s throat! You need someone who knows what to do AND CAN DO IT!!! Pagan or Chavez getting on base so someone else can do the deed is not good enough.
If we were having a conversation about Wright, then OK, you have merit. It’s nice he’s homegrown, but that only goes so far. But your right to a point, there are a few outfeilders who are better than Francouer. But unless Omar suddenly grows a set, Holliday or Bay aren’t comming.
P.S., You forgot to mention that Sean Green is the 5th best arm out of the pen.
Thanks Deebo for adding a few more good points into the debate.
Joe, you knew Frenchy is a lighting rod. LOL..I think we should keep him too.
1. Sean Green is cheap, and average, and that’s the reason for keeping him
2. I don’t give a damn about his strikeouts
3. RsBI’s are a bs stat. It is possible to have 100 RBI’s and have a .000 batting average
4. It doesn’t matter if they were on WS teams. That’s really irrelevant.
5. There are many many outfielders better than Jeff Francoeur.
OK, Let’s take 1 at a time:
1. Sean Green is cheap, and average, and that’s the reason for keeping him
SEAN GREEN CANNOT EVER COME INTO A GAME WITH INHERITED RUNNERS, WHICH ARE THE BREAD AND BUTTER OF ANY RELIEVER. YOU’RE RIGHT HE IS AVERAGE, WHICH IS THE REASON HE DOESN’T BELONG ON ANY TEAM TRYING TO MAKE THE WORLD SERIES.
2. I don’t give a damn about his strikeouts
WELL, YOU WOULD IF YOU SAW HIM COME UP WITH THE BASES LOADED AND NOBODY OR ONE OUT. ONCE MORE, THE POINT OF BASEBALL IS TO SCORE MORE THAN THE OTHER GUY. WHICH LEADS ME TO…
3. RsBI’s are a bs stat. It is possible to have 100 RBI’s and have a .000 batting average.
VERY GOOD! AND I BET YOU CAN COUNT WITHOUT USING YOUR TOES, TOO! OF COURSE YOU CAN DO THAT. BUT SINCE THAT HASN’T HAPPENED IN THE 100+ YEAR HISTORY OF THE SPORT WE HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. RBI ARE A DEPENDENT STAT AND I WON’T ARGUE THAT, BUT IF (INSERT HITTER HERE) HITS .330 FOR THE YEAR BUT CAN’T GET A HIT WITH RISP W/ 2OUTS< THAT MAKES HIM…DRUMROLL PLEASE… ANGEL PAGAN.
P.S., IT'S ONLY A B.S. STAT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOU VERSION OF THE FACTS (THOSE, BY THE WAY, ARE LIMITED TO THE BOOKWORM AND NOT THE COMMON SENSE OF THE EYE)
4. It doesn’t matter if they were on WS teams. That’s really irrelevant.
ONLY IN YOUR WARPED ANDROID OF A BRAIN DOES BEING ON WORLD SERIES TEAMS NOT COUNT. OK, LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU: THE GOAL OF SPRING TRAINING IS TO GET TO THE WORLD SERIES. THE GOAL OF THE REGUALR SEASON IS TO GET TO THE WORLD SERIES. THE GOAL OF GETTING TO THE PLAYOFFS IS TO GET TO THE WORLD SERIES. THE GOAL OF GETTING TO THE WORLD SERIES IS TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES. YOU DON'T WIN AT THE BIG SHOW BY WHO'S BASE RUNS, RUNS CREATED OR WIN SHARES ARE BETTER. IF THAT'S THE CASE, YOU MIGHT BE EXCLUDING HALL OF FAMERS FOR THE LIKES OF…SEAN GREEN.
JAYSON WERTH WASN'T HITTING .146 (USING RIGHT FIELDER COMPARISON ONLY). WHEN THE PHILLIES NEEDED RUNS, HE PROVIDED THEM. DID THEY WIN, NO. BUT PRODUCTION, IN ANY EQUATION, CAN'T BE OUTSOURCED TO THE LAND OF INANE STATS.
5. There are many many outfielders better than Jeff Francoeur.
THEN NAME THEM.
DON'T HIDE BEHIND "MANY, MANY". YOU'VE BEEN ON THIS BLOG FOR THE PAST 3 DAYS AND CAN'T GIVE US ONE NAME THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE THEM RIDING THE PINE FOR A PLAYOFF TEAM.
Better Outfielders than Jeff Francoeur who are available:
Endy Chavez
Hideki Matsui
Johnny Damon
And available possibly through trade: Milton Bradley
That enough for your stupid brain?
By the way, ti has been proven that strikeouts cost less in run value than other outs (Because, ya know, you can’t hit into a double play when you strikeout)
Endy Chavez? Seriously – now you’re just making things up – he’s a GREAT defender yes, but he hits a hair better then Schneider……
yes, but his great defense is usually about 15 runs, or 1.5 WAR. That’s what Francoeur will probably contribute, and Endy can be had for much cheaper than Francoeur.
Look, I don’t hate Francoeur, and I want him to succeed, but the fact of the matter is that he probably won’t do that well. 289 PA’s is way too small of a sample size, and his previous 1,000 or so PA’s don’t so much potential.
Chavez missed an entire year to injury last year – have we NOT learned anything from injuries? Come on and to say “Look, I don’t hate Francoeur, and I want him to succeed, but the fact of the matter is that he probably won’t do that well.”
You can’t use FACT and PROBABLY in the same sentence and convince me that there are some out there that just want him to fail to say “I told you so”.
This thread and all the negativity towards a 25 year old that has already had two 100+RBI seasons, is not only unnecessary, but a waste of time (my fault for continuting to debate with probably and fact of the matter)
Oh, and being on World Series teams being irrelevant:
IT IS A TEAM GAME YOU STUPID STUPID PERSON. YOU CAN BE A GREAT PLAYER AND NEVER GET TO THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THE REST OF YOUR TEAM SUCKS. DO YOU GET THIS? SO THE FACT THAT DAVID ECKSTEIN HAS A WORLD SERIES RING, DOES THAT MAKE HIM BETTER THAN DAVID WRIGHT OR JOSE REYES?
my God you are an idiot.
Also learn about what you criticize. “OU DON’T WIN AT THE BIG SHOW BY WHO’S BASE RUNS, RUNS CREATED OR WIN SHARES ARE BETTER” This article (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ops-for-the-masses/) shows that those stats correlate much better with runs scoring than your precious batting average. And also, I never said Sean Green was a hall of famer. I said he was average, you douche.
Ya know what else all those guys do? They walk, a lot. All have BB% over 10. Francoeur walked an outstanding 3.7%
is that better or worse than Molina?
RBI’sssssss!!!!!!
The guy wants to play every day, wants to succeed, takes accountability for his mistakes and as Joe says, can be signed for much less than a primadonna player who will take his money to the bank and his game with it.
Francoeur is a joy to watch. The main thing people complain about is Francoeur’s OBP, which I will admit is very low. But he’s not a leadoff hitter. For all those people bitching and moaning about his lack of walks, what do you want? Do you want him to be on first base so that the hitters at the bottom of the order can drive him in? Or do you want him driving the ball into the gaps and over the wall so he can drive in the runners already on base?
In 75 games with the Mets (less than half of a 162-game season), Francoeur hit 20 doubles, two triples and 10 home runs. It doesn’t take a math major to see that he put himself in scoring position and beyond quite a bit in less than half a season, which is something a walk wouldn’t do.
If Jerry Manuel made him a leadoff or #2 hitter, then I’d want his OBP to be much higher. But assuming the Mets acquire a big bat for the lineup, Francoeur will bat no higher than sixth in the batting order. I want extra-base hits in that spot, not walks. As Joe mentioned, his slugging percentage was higher for the Mets than at any time since his rookie season. I’ll take that over OBP from my sixth-place hitter any time.
And Joe, I know what you mean about a rant that far exceeded the number of words you originally intended to write. I’m guilty of it in this comment as well.
Thanks Ed. I didn’t realize he had that many extra base hits in 75 games. He easily could have topped 75 in 162 games at that pace. I’m so glad you also pointed out the importance of OBP and SLG relative to where one bats in the lineup. It’s something that is surprisingly lost on many fans. In the old days they didn’t need calculators to determine that the players who get on base the most occupy the first two spots, followed by the teams best pure hitter, and then filling 4-6 with those who can drive the ball in the gaps and over the wall. Nothing has changed in over 100 years. As much as many want to believe they have reinvented the wheel, they haven’t. Lineups are still constructed basically the same way, and when some braniac managers try to do otherwise, they usually don’t last long in their jobs.
So you’re saying a good manager would take high .OBP guys and put them 1-2 in the lineup, his best .OPS guy would hit 3rd, and he’d put guys with good .SLG numbers 4-6. How does Francoeur, who has poor career numbers in all of these categories, fit into a good managers lineup? You pretty much just madete case that a good manager wouldn’t be using him.
Francoeur led the Mets in SLG Pct with the Mets. I included that in my post. It was also the highest since his rookie season.
OBP is twice as important (really it’s like 1.8X as important) as SLG, so that doesn’t mean much. And again, it was in 300 PA. In his previous 900 PA, he slugged ~.355 and got on base about 29% of the time. His wOBA was around .280 where league average is closer to .330. He is a terrible ball player and one who needs to prove himself over the course of a season before being handed the starting right field job on a tam that wants to contend. His defense is waning,it’s not what it used to be. League average defense with horrendous offensive is not a player worth having on your team.
Jeff Francoeur had the 9th highest slugging percentage on the Mets this season. He was behind Delgado, Beltran, Pagan, Sheffield, Wright, Tatis, Castro, and Murphy. If you throw out his time with Atlanta, he still does not lead the team, he finishes third. To top that off, the Mets were 4th from the bottom in the major leagues in terms of slugging, so even if he had led the team it really wouldn’t have meant a whole lot (His slugging percentage was the 86th highest among major league outfielders this past season). You’re selective use of stats is awful funny coming from someone calling out number crunching in this article.
And how did he lead the Mets in slugging when Beltran slugged .500 and played in 6 more games?
He led the Mets in slugging during the time period he was with the Mets. Please compare his slugging to those Mets who played from July through August. As I said he led any of the other Mets who played during that period.
So you’re selling the fact that Francoeur led the injury depleted Mets from July 11th onward (when they compiled a 29-47 record) in slugging as a reason to give him a 3 year deal?
Nope, I’m saying that a 3 year deal would save the Mets money in the long run based on the fact that I believe that at age 25 his best years are behind him. We can cap him at 5 million a year over three years.
If he has a .280-30-100 year in 2010, he’ll win 10 million in arby in 2011, and if it continues 15 mil in 2012.
Giving him 15 mil for 3 years now is better than giving him $30 million in the same span if we were to go with your logic.
And if he has a .260/.290/.350 2010, that 5 million will be a waste.
The chances of him having a .280-30-100 years in 2010 are very very small
Expecting Francoeur to suddenly become a 10 million dollar per year player is about the same as expecting Daniel Murphy to suddenly become a 35 HR per year guy.
OBP is the percentage of how many outs a player makes. A .300 OBP means the player makes an out 70% of the time. Outs are bad. The less outs a player makes, the more valuable he is. Unless he’s slugging .600, a player with a .300 OBP is not that valuable, anywhere in the order.
MLBTR went from reporting rumors to creating their own and writing their own opinion pieces. We cant even agree on opinions on the Mets amongst ourselves, but we have a Cubs fan opining on what ails the Mets and how they should fix it. Stick to reporting Tim.
As for Francoeur I’m sick of this garbage. I’m sick of so called Mets fans rooting for our players to fail. I’m sick of booing our players at CitiField. We have the worst fan base in baseball. All we do is pick apart everyone until there is nothing left to pick. I used to frequent about 15-20 different Mets sites on any given day, but after the 2008 season and reading all the constant negativity I cut my list to 5-6 Mets sites and this is one of them. I no longer go to Mets sites whose favorite words are suck, blow, fail and hate to describe the team or its players.
This Francoeur crap is so indicative of how fans have diminished the concept of rooting for the home team and its players. Most of it is fueled by fans who never flipped cards, or slipped an AM radio under their pillow late at night to tune into the west coast games. The new generation of baseball fan live life like they are playing a video game. The more realistic the video games get, the less realistic people become. No room for emotion in this new breed of fan.
Who’s rooting for Francoeur to fail? The Mets certainly aren’t obligated to pay him 5 million next year, and most fans feel that there are better ways to spend that money. That’s quite a bit different than rooting for Francoeur to fail.
Were you as disturbed by the 5 million that was paid to Brian Schneider? We can spend $18.5 million better than to give it to Beltran too, no? Or the $14 million we gave to Delgado? Is what’s bugging you really the 1.5 million dollar raise Francoeur will get? Is that what is fueling all of this? I think not.
18.5 million on Beltran is pretty much a steal. Name all the outfielders, not just center fielders, outfielders who have been significantly better than Beltran over the life of his contract. If he wasn’t injured this year, he would have been clearly the best.
Beltran has been worth well more than the 18.5 million he’s being paid during the course of his contract, what looked like overpaying at the time has actually been quite a bargain. Regardless, the thing with Beltran is that we have him next year unless we trade him because he is already under contract. Francoeur isn’t under contract, all we have to do is sign a free agent or trade for somebody else. In thi depressed economy, there are plenty of other options we could get better value from. If Francoeur was a free agent, he wouldn’t get a 5 million dollar offer, but the fact remains that his previous salary will pay him that through arbitration. He’s not the best use of money to fix the team at that price, so Omar would be doing his typical lousy job by not exploring other options.
Better value how? By trading top prospects for a new rightfielder and paying him three times the five million Francoeur will get?
Is that your better value?
Please procede as if we didnt have Francoeur and tell me how you would fill right field?
Angel Pagan.
Or Mike Cameron.
If you love Francoeur, Rick Ankiel is basically the exect same player with a cheaper price tag. Pagan is much cheaper and already in house, Milton Bradley could be had for Luis Castillo (ridding us of a bad contract), Nady will likely cost less than 5 million. Coco Crisp can be had for about 5 million. There will be plenty of other low-cost options after the non-tender deadline, leaving that 5 million to spend taking a chance on an arm like Bedard or Sheets.
Nady is coming off his second Tommy John surgery and we’ve seen him once, did a nice job, but forgot how to hit with RISP. Milton Bradly – just what this team needs – a head case and a quitter, CoCo Crisp – weren’t the Sox willing to give him away for a box of balls?
COME ON -
Francoeur has all the physical gifts to make him into an excellent baseball player, but taking a walk in under 5% of his plate appearences will always hurt him. At this point he hits pitchers mistakes very well, which is certainly due to his talent. If he’d ever learn to recognize a bad pitch to hit and just take it, he’d get many more hittable pitches thrown to him and likely be much more valuable at the plate. The problem is that he is a guy opposing pitchers understand that he will swing at garbage 6 inches outside of the zone, so they keep throwing it there. I don’t think any Mets fan would be opposed to having Francoeur in the system, but most don’t feel he’s worth 5 million per year. That 5 million could be spent so much more wisely than Francoeur for a team with a very talented core.
Francoeur was the Mets best player from the time he joined the team.
He hit for average, power, has a history of never getting hurt yet he played hurt when he did. He got clutch hits, constantly smiles, is a clubhouse leader, has the best arm in rightfield I’ve seen since Ellis Valentine and he’s only 25 years old. I think he has just as much potential as he ever did and would put him in a class just below David Wright in terms of what he could deliver if productive (if Wright ever gets his HR swing back). The Mets were incredibly lucky to steal him from the Braves who just wrecked this guy the way the Mets have wrecked so many people in the past.
You can’t be serious
Sites like this are great. It brings together fans of the Mets who were former players and fans that never held a glove in their life but push pencils better than any athelete.
The argument about what Franc is worth and not worth is not what I am here to discuss. The fact that he is 25 years has produced over 100 RBI’s in 2 different seasons, and seems to be a positive all school baseball player is what I do want to discuss.
The Wilpon’s are ruinning this team. They unfortunately are trying to out-smart the sport the same way “Schmidtxc” does. The Mets are and always will be a Blue Collar team. The teams culture and history has created this underdog mentality and players like Jeff Fran are what the team needs to succeed.
Leave the high priced players for the other team in New York. Give me a team of underdogs, and the Mets will succeed. The fans will believe it and the city will embrace it.
I wouldnt want to have Omars job right now. If I did I would def work hard on Lackey but not Halladay. If I was going to unload my prospect base I would utilize that option on Carl Crawford.
Hey, I played baseball until the end of college… and I’ve embraced “the pencil pushing” statistical analysis. Oh, and I don’t want a team of underdogs. I want to win, and I don’t care if we spend $200 mil to do so.
I don’t know how we’d survive without players like “JeffFran”, who’s blue collar attitude led the Mets to a 29-47 record while he was leading by example. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that the “pencil pushers” are agianst Francoeur because he will get paid to much for what he produces, meaning he’d be a bit “high priced” for this blue collar team.
Stop bashing MLBTR it is a great site that puts all the hot stove news together and puts up some peices for discussion. It does not show very much bias and uses good statistics to back up what it says. I was against the francoeur trade at the time but i think after this season he at least deserves another shot (not an extension). If he sucks don’t bring him back next year.
I did not bash MLBTR. In fact I called it the greatest hot stove resource out there. That said, it doesnt mean I cannot disagree with an opinion they posted. They could have reported the Francoeur news and left it at that, but instead they gave an opinion and asked a question. Read their post which I included in this blog uneditied. Do you see the question???
This is my answer.
Dierkes does a great job at MLBTR.
“And unlike the money motivated love for New York muttered by Sabathia and Burnett, Francoeur actually meant it.”
This is unbiased? Do you have some sort of sincerity detector I am not aware of?
Obviously you were completely oblivious to the negotiations for both players which dragged on and required increasing initial offers which already topped anything else on the table. Do your research. There’s a reason negotiations dragged on as long as they did and the love of NY had nothing to do with it.
You were in their head when they made that decision? You knew exactly what they wanted and NY had nothing to do with it? If you’re asking my opinion, I’d agree with you, but if I were writing an objective article, I wouldn’t bring it up. The same way I wouldn’t bring up stuff like hustle, passion, or anything that is based off a subjective perception. You have no insight into the personal life of any of those three players to say who meant what, and it’s certainly not objective journalism.
Well thanks to all of you for the good debate, but I’m out of here. I will reply back to any of your new responses later tonight. LGM
I think they give Franceour a 1 year deal and avoid arbitration, if he plays well and does what people expect then i think they give him an extension.
I really wish people would get over their Sabremetric arguments and just watch the game of baseball as it was meant. If you watch the game, you can see that Jeff wants to play everyday, plays hard, plays injured and was the lone bright spot this year. I hated Jeff Francouer as a Brave, want to know why…..because he was good. He had to earn my love as a Met and he did by the way he played and the way he carried himself. He is a high character glue guy, a great guy to have in the clubhouse and his teammates love playing with him. Get over yourselves and your overrated stats and appreciate a player for what he is, not what numbers say he is.
I agree and thank heavens that they haven’t marred football the way they have marred baseball. Life was so much better when homeruns batting average and RBI’s were all that mattered. If baseball had been this complicated back then, not even Babe Ruth could have saved the game. At least we can rest assured that we will always remember the best batting averages in the game and the best homerun hitters. DiMaggio, Williams, Ruth and Aaron can rest peacefully, because nobody will ever go down in history as the all time WAR leader and BABIP leader. There really is a God.
AAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff Francouer is TERRIBLE AT BASEBALL, and no bullsh.it cliche that you fools can come up with will change that
Will you say this two months into 2010 when he’s hitting .250/.280/.390??????????
Why do you dislike him? Frenchy played very very well while on the Mets. Give him a chance to play for a full season. The Mets have no backup in RF. Pagan, is a 4th outfielder. Frenchy will play 162 games a year.
I dislike him because he’s not good at baseball, he’s taking up money we could use in other places, and he isn’t even better than Pagan
Francoeur didn’t change as a hitter with the Mets, he was still the same old hack happy swinger…. he just got lucky in regards to BABIP
Giving him one year isn’t so horrible…. the idea of a contract extension is
Ruth happens to be the all time WAR leader and BABIP is a luck stat. How can you argue against something you obviously know nothing about?
You seem to think people who look at the newer statistics are watching numbers, which is pretty far from the truth. They’re simply looking at all of the data available when trying to determine who a better player is, which is what teams like the Red Sox do that the Mets do not (and it’s reflected in the success both teams have). Teams like the A’s and Rays tend to be successful with small payrolls while teams like the Royals and Pirates are always awful. It’s a product of understanding why players are succesful, and using that to acquire the right players.
The reasons the Pirates and Royals are always awful is because they have payrolls under $40 million dollars. Why not digest those numbers and compare them to the Red Sox payroll?
What does this analyzing have to do with supporting the team? Can your determination of which player is bad or good translate into what Omar Minaya will do tomorrow?
What’s the benefit of it?
We used to be an accepting society but now we are all bent on tearing down our heroes and making youtube videos of it.
If we had todays generation back in 1969, I would hate to see the way great guys like Weiss, Shamsky, Swoboda and Garrett would have been portrayed. We revered them and still do. One look at their numbers and you can imagine the terrible thing that would be said of them today.
I come from an era where we rooted for the name on the front of the jersey and the one on the back. Every single one of those 25 guys that made up the team was embraced and loved by fans, from weakest hitter to the best.
The Rays made the World Series with a $43 million payroll.
Proving all that springs predictions, statistical analysis, numerical machinations, etc. all wrong. There’s still something to be said for heart and grit.
The Rays almost achieved a miracle, and they do happen as Mets fans who witnessed 1969 are all too aware of.
It’s been good chatting with all of you.
No, the Rays made the world series because they were good at baseball and had a smart GM. Not because of heart or grit.
The Royals average payroll the last 4 seasons has been about 63 million, the Pirates approximately 46 (which happen to match up with the corresponding examples I gave of the A’s and Rays very well). I gave the Red Sox as a large market example to match up to the Mets. I guess looking those numbers up would be hard for you non-pencil pusher types.
I don’t get it. What has this guy done while on the Mets for people to hate him? Why would fans want to no-tender Frenchy. He’s cheap, and is almost a guarantee not to get injured. It’s not like the Mets have a lot of backup options anyway. Pagan, as great as he was in 2009 is a super sub, like Endy Chavez. Give Frenchy a full season in Queens and see what he’s got!
Mets Fan,
That’s what I’m wondering? The guy was a huge bright spot in the Mets’ lineup in ’09. Yeah, he over swings, but he made the effort to be a patient hitter and did become better in his approach at the plate. Honestly, I like his aggresiveness compared to the tentative Mets batters like Wright. French could soar with a better lineup next season. Bank on it.
Thank you! A sensible Mets fan. He did well! Why get ‘em out of there? He was the only bright spot ALL last year.
Hmmm, funny thing, because the “tentative hitter” Wright is a much better hitter than the aggressive Francoeur.
Wright is the better hitter. No one is denying that. This team is better with Frenchy in the lineup rather than Pagan.
No one is saaying that Frenchy is the end all, be all. A good number 5 or 6 hitter doesn’t have to be. And if Wright is a better hitter (which I ultimately believe he is), he better show it in 2010!
I’m saying he came to New York and tried to be an agrresive(I hear the jokes coming)when other players would shy away from it. That’s what this Mets team is known for. But when you see him play whether it was in Philly or against any other rivals, he doesn’t look scared. It’s like “you throw a 93 mph fast and I’m coming for you.” He always wants to get a hit. Yeah, you’re right French is known for doing too much, we all know that, but at the same there’s something different about that..becuase for the past three years we are infamous for having our big hitters look at strike three with men on the pond instead of being aggresive or coming through. They look tentative. No one cares about David and Beltran being better hitters or all star games this year. It’s about getting it done, getting gritt,and getting the little things done. Whether it’s going 2-4, 3-5, 1-2, playing hard and not complaining, that is what French brings to this team…a breath of fresh air.
It’s always nice to have a team that finished with a better record’s trash…
Jeff Francouer should be signed to a contract extension now for not only the financial reasons but to show him that his attitude and efforts on the field are appreciated. He played hard and he played smart right to the end of this season and gave this team some life which it desperately needed. He is not going to hit 40 homers and get 125 RBI’s but should hit 25 homers along with 85-100 RBI’s. Combine that with great defense and a cannon from right field and we will have a very solid player for 10 years.
Good Riddance: a postmortem for the 2008 Atlanta Braves (part IV: The Ugly)
The sheer badness of Jeff Francoeur 2008 cannot be shown in the statistics. Oh, the statistics are bad, very bad. He hit .239, 25 points below the league; got on base at a .294 clip, 41 points below the league; and slugged a big fat .359, 62 points below the league. Remember, this includes not only middle infielders, catchers, and Hamsters, but also pitchers. Only five players in the entire National League made more outs than Francoeur, and most of them were top of the order hitters, and centerfielders or middle infielders.
But that doesn’t tell the whole story. To really appreciate how bad Jeff Francoeur was in 2008, you had to see him. For me, the definitive Francoeur PA would not be a one-out, bases-loaded GIDP (he grounded into five bases-loaded double plays on his way to putting up a .182/.206/.242 line with the sacks full) or a one-out, runner at third popup, or a first-pitch out after two consecutive walks, though you could see all of these without waiting too long. The definitive Francoeur PA was when he would make solid contact on fastball with a vicious uppercut swing… and the left fielder would run in to make the play. The man’s bat speed has deteriorated to the point that even if he anticipates a pitch and makes contact, he isn’t generating enough velocity to do anything with it.
The entire 2008 Jeff Francoeur Experience can be defined with one word, and that word is “slowness”. His bat was slow, but that was more than matched by his feet. It was unbelieveable, watching him in the outfield, to think that he was recruited to play defensive back for a major college football team, or even Clemson. At times, particularly when chasing balls into the gap, he looked like he was running in molasses.
“Slowness” also defines the Braves’ treatment of Francoeur — and I mean slowness in all its meanings, as they both took far too long to address the problem, and then handled it incredibly stupidly. The only quick thing about Francoeur all year was how quickly the Braves backtracked once they’d finally done what was vitally necessary to keep the team in contention. The absurd three-day demotion gave the impression that whoever was running the show in Atlanta, it wasn’t the general manager, and that possibly it was actually a sponsor. Francoeur’s very serious problems could not possibly be addressed in a long weekend, especially since he refused to acknowledge that he was hurting the team.
The single biggest reason that the Braves did not win an eminently winnable division was the play of their right fielder. No one player can lose twenty games for a team, but Francoeur’s poor play probably had a greater effect on the ballclub than his mere three or so games below replacement, or his 6-9 games below average. When the Braves were in contention, they were kept out of first place by their miserable record in one-run games; if they had gotten anything from right field, things would almost certainly have been different. Moreover, the largest single systemic weakness in the Braves of the first half was a lack of righthanded power, and the reason for that is that the man employed to be the team’s righthanded power hitter — who at the beginning of the season routinely hit fifth against lefthanded pitchers — was a complete waste of space and hit eleven homers all year. The Braves hit .282/.364/.438 lefthanded , but only .256/.323/.373 righthanded; Francoeur accounted for 23 percent of their righthanded plate appearances.
I am generally opposed to selling low; however, there is such a thing as minimizing your losses. There are those who think that Jeff Francoeur is a talented player who had a bad year. I am not one of those people. I use statistics a lot, sometimes seemingly to a fault. You can’t possibly know enough from observation to make informed decisions about everything that goes on on a baseball field. But if you watch one player enough, you can tell when that player is done. Jeff Francoeur is done. He plays baseball like a 45-year-old man who maybe was pretty good in his early thirties. Even if he somehow, through an unprecedented educational program, figured out where the strike zone is and how to recognize the difference between fastballs and breaking balls, he lacks the ability now to take advantage.
All that Jeff Francoeur has going for him is his reputation as a talented athlete. That is it. Eventually, everyone will realize that his athleticism is shot, and there’s no call for a slow guy with a slow bat to play the outfield. To be perfectly honest, the only chance I see of Francoeur ever becoming a useful major leaguer again is if the Braves get rid of him, he signs on elsewhere as a minor leaguer, and he learns how to pitch.
and? What was the point? Did he do that for the Mets? I just don’t get why you posted that. New York fans are funny. When a guy does well, it’s either get rid of him or he can’t play. Please, post something about David Wright. The last time I checked, he was unbearable to watch too. But you’re not going to post nothing about him, right? Obviously,not because he is the “franchise.”
I won’t post anything about David Wright because I’m not a Mets fan. I don’t care. I’m a Braves fan.
Just stopping by to let everyone know Francoeur sucks.
You obviously don’t understand. Francoeur played slightly above league average for 289 at bats in a Mets uniform, he’s obviously rejuvenated.I mean, no bad player ever had 300 at bats where he played well. That means he’s the greatest player on the Mets because he got a little lucky in 300 at bats.
He got lucky in three hundred a bats? What? But then again you have someone below me saying the Mets suck and you don’t nothing. Talk to him. But then again, I don’t understand.
J-Rod
BABIP. Batting Average on Balls In Play. What that stats tells you is the percentage of balls in play, (not homers, strikeouts or walks) that land for a hit. It is mostly a luck statistic, though it fluctuates from player to player. League average is .300 and Francoeur’s is .307 for his career. David Wright however, has a much higher career rate ~.350. For the most part, the higher the BABIP, the higher the average. When David Wright was hitting near .350, his BABIP was well over .400. Looking at his BABIP, it was obvious that as it regressed towards his career mark ~.350, is average would drop. As his BABIP fell, so did his average, Wright was lucky to bat .350 for most of the season. For Francoeur, as I said before, his career BABIP is .307, but with his time with the Mets, it was over .340, well off his career mark. It’s more likely he’ll put up a BABIP of .307 which will greatly bring down his average and then his OBP under .300. So yes, Jeff Francoeur had a lucky 300 PA.
I understand that Evan and you make valid points. But those are just stats. You trying to tell me a ’08 David was better than a ’06 David? Yes, I understand he had a supporting cast in ’06, but the Wright for the past two years…I don’t know know what to say. Will he get better next year if we get those supporting players, maybe, but you can’t talk about Frenchy’s stats and say he was lucky and then say Wright’s numbers in ’08 was great when he really didn’t do anything special when it counted.
08 Wright was much better than 06 Wright. David played pretty poorly in the second half of 06. And this whole thing “when it counted” is bull. A home run in the second is worth the same as one in the ninth, the one in the ninth just looks better. The bullpen sucked in 07 and 08 not Wright, not Reyes, and not Beltran. The problem with the team is the surrounding guys, not the core. And lastly, you keep talking about the supporting cast, you realize that baseball is largely an individual sport, right? On defense there is some teamwork, but on offense there is only the hitter and the base runner(s) and they never interact with each other unless one makes a mistake. Even then, the interaction is an instant out. The offense can’t help each other get a hit or anything like that. You can’t blame Wright for the teams failings, that is complete ignorance.
David Wright is unbearable watching how?
how? You’ve been watching him for the past two years, right? I guess he has been hitting beautifully for the past two seasons?
Two years? His 09 was bad by his standards, still good, just not great, but he was spectacular in 08. .302/.390/.534 is a great line. 33 homers, 42 doubles. He was one of the top 5 hitters in baseball in 08! I mean, you think David Wright in 08 was bad, but Francoeur in 09 was good? That is utterly insane. David Wright is literally 100x the player Franoeur will ever be.
So if Wright put up all those stats, why was Met fan’s asking for him to be traded? Why didn’t those stats show up when it mattered, down the stretch in ’08? Where was he in Milwaukee in those final games when Delgado hit that hr in the right field seats in ’08? What about the final game in ’07 against the Marlins? What about the Game against the Marlins at shea when Santana shut down the Marlins? I know, it’s a team effort, that would be yor excuse. So you trying to tell me in those situations,French wouldn’t have made something happen? See that’s the difference. You could throw around all those stats and it doesn’t mean nothing. We need gritt and that’s what French provides. David use to come through a lot, but what happened now? I’m not saying he’s a wast, but if you want to talk about French or Reyes being traded, why not guys like David or Beltran?
Fans were calling for him to be traded because they’re complete idiots who know nothing about baseball or logic for that matter. And you’re right, David sucked in September of 07 and 08, that I will concede. I mean look at these paltry statistics.
September 2007: .352/.432/.602 (1.034 OPS) 6 HRs, 9 2Bs, 4 SB (1 CS), 20 RsBI
September 2008: .340/.416/.577 (.993 OPS) 6 HRs, 5 2Bs, 1 SB, 21 RsBI
First off, Wright has as much “grit” and “heart” as anyone, as does Beltran and Reyes, at least in the way people talk about it. Wright came back after a concussion to play meaningless games in the worst season of his career. He could have sat out, but he has passion for the game. Same with Beltran, he could have sat out September, but he was cleared to play and did, all while having bone on bone bruises on his knees. And Reyes tried to return just to play one more game but wasn’t cleared to. You know what all of that mean. Nothing. Grit and heart and passion mean nothing. As long as a talented player goes out hand plays to his minimum ability, he will always be more valuable than a non talented player no matter how hard that talentless player tries. Anyone who thinks the Mets should trade Wright, Reyes, or Beltran for under performing or whatever is an idiot. From 06-08 they were all top 15 players in baseball.
I bet you think a guy like A-rod was a choker who just happened to have a good post season this year. Give a player an infinite chance in any situation, and they will perform to their talent level. Situation does not dictate skill.
Well, keep on believing that Wright is God.
Wow. I love how I’ve backed up my argument with facts and you with nothing but opinion. I don’t believe I ever called David Wright God, but I certainly am entertained by your ignorant, moronic, and childish comments. You lost, you have nothing to back up your perceptions. You have no facts, no statistics, no expert opinion, just flawed opinion.
Ignorant and moronic, huh? You just gave me stats for French, his on base percentage, his this, his that for ’09 and say it was just lucky? I could of sworn that French’s worst season was last year? Wright supposed to be the heart of the team and been very inconsistant. Tell me has been consistant? What groupies. No you’re entertaining me. You’re not proving anything.
I say keep Jeff Francoeur. He was the only thing that went well with the season. He is a fighter and I feel he will only get better.
My guess from this thread is everyone got tired of bashing Castillo so there is a new victim – lolol…….
Agree. And it’s weird,lol. There’s a rookie guard on Knicks named Toney Douglas. He’s playing well, playing d, scoring 21,21,15 the last threes games and is a major bright spot for the Knicks. But all you hear is we need pg or we should’ve got this guy in the draft. And it’s weird. You have soemone who looks very promising and you overlook him? Only in NY.
This sums it up perfectly. Sports have to be looked at over an extended period, over large sample sizes. Three game in any sport that’s not football is so minuscule, it’s irrelevant. Even the worst player in baseball or basketball can have a great few games, or even one great season. You have to look at all the data available, not just the most recent.
See I’m not just talking about three games. He plays hard everytime he’s out there. Once you go out there and play like this guys is playing as rookie, you can set you up for a bright future. He’s playing better than most of the veterans are.
I watched Francouer since he came up with Atlanta, and all I’ll say is I haven’t been as happy about a trade since Atlanta traded for Fred McGriff.
That’s why you’re a Braves fan.
This article confused me – I think the majority of Mets fans by a wide margin love Jeff Francouer. He’s a gamer.
He is the opposite of the “Los Mets”, a team filled with players who worry about their stats and break down in September when you need them most.
I’m begining to believe that now may be the time to see what we can get for Carlos Beltran. He’s still a great fielder and hitter – but he’s aging. How many good years does he have left? Trade him now and get a bunch in return.
“He is the opposite of the “Los Mets”, a team filled with players who worry about their stats and break down in September when you need them most.”
Wow. How do you know exactly that the “Los Mets,” by which you mean Latinos, only cared about stats. Hell, Francoeur said he would quit baseball if he had any shot at a country music career. Had Reyes said something like that, you’d all be calling him a quitter and not a team first guy. What makes him a gamer, and Reyes or Beltran not a gamer. Please enlighten me. Is the first rule of being a gamer sucking or being white? Well it has to be sucking because Wright’s white and not a gamer.
Congrats. You just said a totally stereotypical comment about latinos. By the way, none of the “Los Mets” have ever said anything about their numbers. So Carlos Beltran is not a gamer because he goes on the DL with no knee cartilage yet comes back and plays, still with no knee cartilage.