Comments on: A Case For Adrian Gonzalez http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:44:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joe D http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32777 Joe D Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:03:05 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32777 You gotta love Branch Rickey, that story is funny. Thanks for sharing it. You gotta love Branch Rickey, that story is funny. Thanks for sharing it.

]]> By: METS62FAN http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32776 METS62FAN Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:55:50 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32776 JOE, ONE KEANEPOOL LEGACY STORY I'F HEARD MANY TIMES WAS THAT HE DITCHED HS TO ATTEND OPENNING DAY IN POLO GROUNDS IN '62. ALSO YOU ARE ASTUTE IN POINTIONG OUT THE MANY FAILED PROSPECTS THAT BESPECKLE NYM HISTORY. REGARDING NYM & PROSPECTS I'M OFTEN REMINDED OF THE TALES WOVEN AROUND BRANCH RICKEY & HIS HANDLING OF "FLAWED" PROSPECTS. ONE RICKEYISM IS THAT FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S ASSUME HE HAD A TOP DRAFT PICK NAMED FINCH WHO SHOWED SHORT FROM EXPECTATIONS IN THE LOW MINORS. I'VE READ HE'D TYPICALLY BEGIN CONVERSATIONS WITH RIVAL GMs BY STATING UP FRONT SOMETHING LIKE, "I'M WILLING TO TALK ABOUT EVERYONE EXCEPT THAT KID FINCH, SO IF HE'S ON YOUR MUIND, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE" MEANWHILE, THE RIVAL GM WHO'D LIKELY NOT HEARD OF FINCH HAS HAD HIS INTEREST PIQUED & HAS BECOME DEADSET ON PRYING THIS PRIZE OUT OF RICKEY'S HANDS. THE REST IS LEGENDARY. I OFTEN THINK THE METS ARE TRYING TOO HARD TO OVER-PROMOTE THEIR ESCOBARS,PAYTONS,ETC. UNLIKE RICKEY THEY SOMETIMES BEGIN TO BELIEVE THEIR OWN HYPE. LONG AGO I LOST INTEREST IN NYM POSITIONAL "PROSPECTS" AFTER THEY DEBUTED THE SUPPOSED HEIR TO CF FROM AGEE, LEROY STANTON. MY FRIEND & I TOOK THE SUBWAY FROM BAY RIDGE TO SHEA FOR THE DEBUT AT SHEA. IN THE FIRST INNING, I BELIEVE, STANTON WAS INVOLVED IN A CLOSE PLAY @ HOME WHEN THE THROW STRUCK HIM IN HIS HEAD WHILE SLIDING (9/70?). THE KID HAD TO BE REMOVED FROM THE GAME, OUR HEARTS WERE BROKEN. HE WAS PKGD WITH RYAN FOR FERGOSI. NEVER TO BE SEEN IN FLUSHING AGAIN! I'M GUESSING HE WAS A TAD BETTER THAN ESCOBARISH AS HIS 9Y MLB CAREER OF .244 WAS HIGHLIGHTED WITH A CAREER BEST YR OF '77 WITH SEATTLE ACCOUNTING FOR .275 BA, .341 OBP, .511 SLG, .852 OPS & VOTED SEATTLES TEAM MVP THAT YR. NOW THERE'S A BLAST FROM MY NYM PAST! JOE, ONE KEANEPOOL LEGACY STORY I’F HEARD MANY TIMES WAS THAT HE DITCHED HS TO ATTEND OPENNING DAY IN POLO GROUNDS IN ’62. ALSO YOU ARE ASTUTE IN POINTIONG OUT THE MANY FAILED PROSPECTS THAT BESPECKLE NYM HISTORY. REGARDING NYM & PROSPECTS I’M OFTEN REMINDED OF THE TALES WOVEN AROUND BRANCH RICKEY & HIS HANDLING OF “FLAWED” PROSPECTS. ONE RICKEYISM IS THAT FOR EXAMPLE, LET’S ASSUME HE HAD A TOP DRAFT PICK NAMED FINCH WHO SHOWED SHORT FROM EXPECTATIONS IN THE LOW MINORS. I’VE READ HE’D TYPICALLY BEGIN CONVERSATIONS WITH RIVAL GMs BY STATING UP FRONT SOMETHING LIKE, “I’M WILLING TO TALK ABOUT EVERYONE EXCEPT THAT KID FINCH, SO IF HE’S ON YOUR MUIND, LET’S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE” MEANWHILE, THE RIVAL GM WHO’D LIKELY NOT HEARD OF FINCH HAS HAD HIS INTEREST PIQUED & HAS BECOME DEADSET ON PRYING THIS PRIZE OUT OF RICKEY’S HANDS. THE REST IS LEGENDARY. I OFTEN THINK THE METS ARE TRYING TOO HARD TO OVER-PROMOTE THEIR ESCOBARS,PAYTONS,ETC. UNLIKE RICKEY THEY SOMETIMES BEGIN TO BELIEVE THEIR OWN HYPE. LONG AGO I LOST INTEREST IN NYM POSITIONAL “PROSPECTS” AFTER THEY DEBUTED THE SUPPOSED HEIR TO CF FROM AGEE, LEROY STANTON. MY FRIEND & I TOOK THE SUBWAY FROM BAY RIDGE TO SHEA FOR THE DEBUT AT SHEA. IN THE FIRST INNING, I BELIEVE, STANTON WAS INVOLVED IN A CLOSE PLAY @ HOME WHEN THE THROW STRUCK HIM IN HIS HEAD WHILE SLIDING (9/70?). THE KID HAD TO BE REMOVED FROM THE GAME, OUR HEARTS WERE BROKEN. HE WAS PKGD WITH RYAN FOR FERGOSI. NEVER TO BE SEEN IN FLUSHING AGAIN! I’M GUESSING HE WAS A TAD BETTER THAN ESCOBARISH AS HIS 9Y MLB CAREER OF .244 WAS HIGHLIGHTED WITH A CAREER BEST YR OF ’77 WITH SEATTLE ACCOUNTING FOR .275 BA, .341 OBP, .511 SLG, .852 OPS & VOTED SEATTLES TEAM MVP THAT YR. NOW THERE’S A BLAST FROM MY NYM PAST!

]]> By: Bob L http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32760 Bob L Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:50:42 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32760 Pitching, pitching, and pitching...then we add some bop and pop to the lineup (and i don't mean 'old'!). Forget big trades for Gonzalez or Doc Halladay (i flip-flopped here, after realizing it'd cost just too much in prospects + a huge contract...and i don't want Wells to cheapen the prospect/talent give-up.) Be aggressive in the FA market for Lackey, Marquis, Wolf or Sheets ( 3 of 4); Matt Holliday, Chone Figgins. Trade Castillo to Dodgers for Casey Blake. Spend $$$$$$$$'s, but wisely. Met fans deserve it. We pay probably the 2nd highest ticket prices in the country. Pitching, pitching, and pitching…then we add some bop and pop to the lineup (and i don’t mean ‘old’!).
Forget big trades for Gonzalez or Doc Halladay (i flip-flopped here, after realizing it’d cost just too much in prospects + a huge contract…and i don’t want Wells to cheapen the prospect/talent give-up.)
Be aggressive in the FA market for Lackey, Marquis, Wolf or Sheets ( 3 of 4); Matt Holliday, Chone Figgins.
Trade Castillo to Dodgers for Casey Blake.
Spend $$$$$$$$’s, but wisely. Met fans deserve it. We pay probably the 2nd highest ticket prices in the country.

]]> By: Danny Krieger http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32744 Danny Krieger Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:02:00 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32744 Nester - You are right about needing to know what the Padres needs are. But regardless of the Padres needs you have to give them a lot!!! Adrian is a guy who we'd control for 3 years @4.5M per year. But you could never trade any of the Mets current impact players like Reyes. Adding Gonzalez and subtracting Reyes doesn't gain you very much. I am a fan of trying to build from within. That's why I want to give Murphy the shot this year. I understand that the Mets farm hands usually don't amount to much so trading for Halladay would be worth it. Since Halladay would get an extension for 20+ million/year, I'd rather keep my players and sign Lackey. Nester – You are right about needing to know what the Padres needs are. But regardless of the Padres needs you have to give them a lot!!! Adrian is a guy who we’d control for 3 years @4.5M per year.

But you could never trade any of the Mets current impact players like Reyes. Adding Gonzalez and subtracting Reyes doesn’t gain you very much.

I am a fan of trying to build from within. That’s why I want to give Murphy the shot this year. I understand that the Mets farm hands usually don’t amount to much so trading for Halladay would be worth it.

Since Halladay would get an extension for 20+ million/year, I’d rather keep my players and sign Lackey.

]]> By: Deebo http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32740 Deebo Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:28:43 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32740 Come down from the ledge, MJ. It may not take as much as you think. There was a time when the Mets were more of a joke than they are now: 1998. That team had less talent on it than this squad and only lacked a superstar: Mike Piazza. Remind me, what did it take to get him? Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall and Geoff Getz! If you had told a Met fan what it would have taken to get Piazza, the reaction would have been similar to A. Gonzales. The point is dual: 1. It might not take as much as you think in the end and 2. Piazza was 30 (in his prime, playing catcher) and Gonzales is 27 playing first base. IT IS WORTH THE RISK! And do you really miss anybody that was traded from the Mets since 2003? Where I often question the family jewels on the Mets, I hold out hope that they Remember Piazza before they say "no" to something like this. Come down from the ledge, MJ. It may not take as much as you think. There was a time when the Mets were more of a joke than they are now: 1998. That team had less talent on it than this squad and only lacked a superstar: Mike Piazza.

Remind me, what did it take to get him? Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall and Geoff Getz! If you had told a Met fan what it would have taken to get Piazza, the reaction would have been similar to A. Gonzales.

The point is dual: 1. It might not take as much as you think in the end and 2. Piazza was 30 (in his prime, playing catcher) and Gonzales is 27 playing first base. IT IS WORTH THE RISK! And do you really miss anybody that was traded from the Mets since 2003?

Where I often question the family jewels on the Mets, I hold out hope that they Remember Piazza before they say “no” to something like this.

]]> By: steve http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32739 steve Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:28:06 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32739 Forget Gonzalez.The Redsox will get him.The YANKEES will get lackey and Holliday. the Mets are left to trade for Halladay,and sign DeRosa and Figgins and Molina or Barajas.I think if yoou also add Biemel,dotel and Marquis.We would have the best 1-2 combo in the league,a great closer,great leadoff hitter if healthy if not then we have Figgins. Santana-Halladay-Marquis-Maine-Perez with Niese,Nieve in the wings KRod-Feliciano-Dotel-Biemel-Green-Stokes Reyes(ss)Figgins(lf)Beltran(cf)wright(3b)Molina(c)Murphy(1b)Francour(rf) Castillo(2b) with DeRosa playing 5-6 days a week,at diferent spots. Bench Evans-Cora-Santos-Blalock Forget Gonzalez.The Redsox will get him.The YANKEES will get lackey and Holliday. the Mets are left to trade for Halladay,and sign DeRosa and Figgins and Molina or Barajas.I think if yoou also add Biemel,dotel and Marquis.We would have the best 1-2 combo in the league,a great closer,great leadoff hitter if healthy if not then we have Figgins.
Santana-Halladay-Marquis-Maine-Perez with Niese,Nieve in the wings
KRod-Feliciano-Dotel-Biemel-Green-Stokes
Reyes(ss)Figgins(lf)Beltran(cf)wright(3b)Molina(c)Murphy(1b)Francour(rf)
Castillo(2b) with DeRosa playing 5-6 days a week,at diferent spots.
Bench Evans-Cora-Santos-Blalock

]]> By: Nester http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32737 Nester Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:12:38 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32737 You cant just throw a bunch of names out there without first knowing what needs the Padres are seeking to fill. The players you mention are laughable to me and not realistic at all. Why would the Padres trade Gonzalez without getting one major league hitter back? I would trade John Maine and Mike Pelfrey and even Jose Reyes if they wanted him. But again, that's just me. The bottom line is that Omar Minaya needs to get on the phone and start a dialog with the Padres and then do what it takes to get the deal done. Guys like Gonzalez only come along once every couple of decades. Opportunity is knocking and the Mets should open the door. Gonzalez would bring so much to the Mets defensively as well as offensively. David Wrights error total would have been cut in half if anyone but Murphy was playing first base, imagine what a gold glove like Gonzalez would do. Imagine all those hard grounders that got past Delgado and led to runs. This is a special talent, and you if you have to ask how much than you probably cant afford him. Just get it done. Give the Padres a blank check and get it done. You cant just throw a bunch of names out there without first knowing what needs the Padres are seeking to fill. The players you mention are laughable to me and not realistic at all. Why would the Padres trade Gonzalez without getting one major league hitter back?

I would trade John Maine and Mike Pelfrey and even Jose Reyes if they wanted him. But again, that’s just me.

The bottom line is that Omar Minaya needs to get on the phone and start a dialog with the Padres and then do what it takes to get the deal done. Guys like Gonzalez only come along once every couple of decades. Opportunity is knocking and the Mets should open the door.

Gonzalez would bring so much to the Mets defensively as well as offensively. David Wrights error total would have been cut in half if anyone but Murphy was playing first base, imagine what a gold glove like Gonzalez would do. Imagine all those hard grounders that got past Delgado and led to runs.

This is a special talent, and you if you have to ask how much than you probably cant afford him. Just get it done. Give the Padres a blank check and get it done.

]]> By: Bayonne Mets Fan http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32735 Bayonne Mets Fan Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:24:28 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32735 Speculating on who we trade to get Adrian Gonzalez is a guessing game and a waste of time. Just getting him is the real story, not who we give up. Excellent post by Joe D. I will add that if we do go this route that it would probably be a plan B because they'll probably go for Halladay first. BUT....since the Yankees and Red Sox are the prime players in the Halladay sweepstakes it is very real possibility that we won't get him. This option of getting Adrian Gonzalez in a trade and signing a pitcher like Lackey and tweaking the rest of the lineup is just as good a plan in my eyes. Speculating on who we trade to get Adrian Gonzalez is a guessing game and a waste of time.

Just getting him is the real story, not who we give up. Excellent post by Joe D.

I will add that if we do go this route that it would probably be a plan B because they’ll probably go for Halladay first. BUT….since the Yankees and Red Sox are the prime players in the Halladay sweepstakes it is very real possibility that we won’t get him. This option of getting Adrian Gonzalez in a trade and signing a pitcher like Lackey and tweaking the rest of the lineup is just as good a plan in my eyes.

]]> By: Danny Krieger http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32734 Danny Krieger Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:12:09 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32734 That's why I think it's critical for people to express themselves on what it would take to get Gonzalez. Then we can decide whether we still want him. One thing to remember that Gonzalez would be under team control for three more years at about $4.5 million per year. So it won't take $20 M to keep him but the friendly contract makes his trade value that much greater. Let me throw this out - You'd have to trade Fernando Ike Davis Mike Pelfrey Jenry Mejia Wilmer Flores Bobby Parnell Six for one. Would you still do it? That’s why I think it’s critical for people to express themselves on what it would take to get Gonzalez. Then we can decide whether we still want him.

One thing to remember that Gonzalez would be under team control for three more years at about $4.5 million per year. So it won’t take $20 M to keep him but the friendly contract makes his trade value that much greater.

Let me throw this out – You’d have to trade
Fernando
Ike Davis
Mike Pelfrey
Jenry Mejia
Wilmer Flores
Bobby Parnell

Six for one. Would you still do it?

]]> By: Alex in CT http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32732 Alex in CT Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:02:38 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32732 As usual you've taken your eye off the ball. We dont need Gonzalez, we need Halladay. If we are going to purge the farm for one player, it should be Halladay and not Gonzalez. Leave Murphy at first base and get rid of Ike Davis, Mike Pelfrey, Bobby Parnell and F-Mart for Halladay. As usual you’ve taken your eye off the ball. We dont need Gonzalez, we need Halladay. If we are going to purge the farm for one player, it should be Halladay and not Gonzalez. Leave Murphy at first base and get rid of Ike Davis, Mike Pelfrey, Bobby Parnell and F-Mart for Halladay.

]]> By: Original Mets Fan http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32731 Original Mets Fan Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:45:15 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32731 I don't believe the Mets will get him. Ultimately Gonzales gets traded to the Red Sox who have more to give. The Mets will make a half hearted attempt to get him to appease the fans, but it's just for show and not because they are serious about acquiring him. I don’t believe the Mets will get him. Ultimately Gonzales gets traded to the Red Sox who have more to give. The Mets will make a half hearted attempt to get him to appease the fans, but it’s just for show and not because they are serious about acquiring him.

]]> By: Met Maniac http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32730 Met Maniac Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:14:49 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32730 Excellent post and thank you for the history of futility at first base. Hopefully they make a deal for Gonzalez no matter what it takes. And to all the dimwitted fans who want to protect the farm, your the same idots that thought we gave up too much for Piazza. Excellent post and thank you for the history of futility at first base. Hopefully they make a deal for Gonzalez no matter what it takes. And to all the dimwitted fans who want to protect the farm, your the same idots that thought we gave up too much for Piazza.

]]> By: Met Maniac http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32729 Met Maniac Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:10:28 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32729 Johan damage??? What damage is that?? Want to undo the deal??? Who do the Mets miss from that deal??? Get a grip. Johan damage??? What damage is that?? Want to undo the deal??? Who do the Mets miss from that deal??? Get a grip.

]]> By: MJ http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32728 MJ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:05:20 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32728 Why are you even discussing this waste of time pipe dream? The Mets would NEVER make the deal it would take to get this guy. It would take more than a boat load to get him too. More like an aircraft carrier load. The Mets would have to completely decimate their farm system and THEN pay this guy like $20 mil per. They are just getting over the Johann damage to the farm. Why don't we just wait till he's a FA? We got all of these other so-called first baseman of the future here already. If one of those don't workout, spend the $$$$ and get the guy without gutting the farm system. Why are you even discussing this waste of time pipe dream? The Mets would NEVER make the deal it would take to get this guy. It would take more than a boat load to get him too. More like an aircraft carrier load. The Mets would have to completely decimate their farm system and THEN pay this guy like $20 mil per. They are just getting over the Johann damage to the farm. Why don’t we just wait till he’s a FA? We got all of these other so-called first baseman of the future here already. If one of those don’t workout, spend the $$$$ and get the guy without gutting the farm system.

]]> By: Danny Krieger http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/11/hernandez-delgado-and-olerud-all-rolled-into-one.html#comment-32725 Danny Krieger Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:45:00 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=16168#comment-32725 Excellent post. I still think it's important to put down in writing what you think it would take to get Adrian. I'd like to see your thoughts on that. Excellent post. I still think it’s important to put down in writing what you think it would take to get Adrian. I’d like to see your thoughts on that.

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