Breaking Down The Mets Bullpen: J.J. Putz

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• Drew November 2, 2009 at 8:49 am

  Just as a math point: 6:4 is a BETTER K:BB ratio than 15:12 (simplifies down to 5:4).

  Otherwise, I agree…we can’t commit the boatload of money in his option, but I wouldn’t mind see a cheaper Putz back in a Mets uni in 2010.
  • Phil Hoops November 2, 2009 at 8:55 am

    I apologize it should’ve been the other way around (4K:6BB). My bad, it has since been corrected. Thanks.
• ajsosa November 2, 2009 at 9:33 am

  We need JJ Putz Back, The why he dont have a good star. He is not 100% healthy, If we dont resign him, i see the 2008 comeback, when the mets never have good reliver like Francisco Rodriguez and JJ Putz in years. Sign him…….him it good…….we need him……
  • andy November 2, 2009 at 9:45 am

    WE DONT NEED HIM. I could not see how we need him after that disaster of a season. he used to do that so often in Seattle. why would they just give him up gladly. It was no good for us to get him and i believe we go after Brandon Lyon, who actually did well last year. I believe Lyon could fill in a lot better at the back end, than putz.

    if we do stay with him, i see management signing him to almost nothing with incentives, and he stated last year that he wanted to be a closer.
• Mets faithful November 2, 2009 at 11:30 am

  Here is my point. The Mets gave up quite a few prospects and a fan favorite(Endy) to get this guy, knowing dam well it would take 8 million to bring him back. Money should not be a problem. If the Mets are going to be good next year we can use all the help we can get. A healthy Putz can really help out the back end of this bullpen. Two more things, if healthy, he makes for great trade bait at the deadline or maybe hes a Type A free agent in 2011 and the Mets get 2 draft picks. Just food for thought.
  • METS62FAN November 2, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    SORRY, FAITHFUL; BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, MONEY CERTAINLY DOES MATTER…8.6M WAS HIS OPTION ON A CLOSER’S CONTRACT. THAT AMOUNT FOR A SETUP PITCHER IS LUDICROUS THOUGH I CERTAINLY WOULDN’T BE AGAINST A “NEW” CONTRACT AT REASONABLE VALUE THAT INCLUDED AN INCENTIVE RAISING VALUE BACK TO 8.6 SHOULD HE INHERIT CLOSER TITLE FOR WHATEVER REASON.
    CONSIDER THIS: K-ROD EARNED 8.5M AS CLOSER IN ’09, 11.5 IN ’10. 8.6 FOR A SETUP IS INSANITY, ESP ONE COMING OFF HAVING THE ROCK OF GIBRALTER REMOVED FROM HIS PITCHING ELBOW & NOT PITCHED SINCE. PERHAPS 2Y/3M WITH A “CLOSER UPGRADE CLAUSE TO 8M” SHOULD K-ROD “GO DOWN” AT LEAST THERE’S AN EXPERIENCED B/U (REMEBER DERAILMENT WAGS CAUSED?)
    • Pulsipher November 2, 2009 at 1:18 pm

      There is a problem with your “inherited closer clause.” You say that there should be a clause that should he inherit the closer’s position for whatever reason, he should receive this bonus. But I ask, how long would have to inherit the job for? K-Rod goes down for one month, Putz is the closer, does he get the bonus then? In that situation he in-fact inherited the closer’s role, but then again, the team probably wouldnt want to give up the big bucks for that. Id actually say that picking up the option could be worth it. 1) Putz is generally a very good pitcher and borderline elite closer. We use him during the season and he provides stable help in the ‘pen. On 7/31, a 8.5 mil closer would be a commodity we could unload for starting pitching or some other void we need to fill.
      The problem with allowing him to leave and attempting to re-sign him boils down to a few points.
      1) this 2 year 3 mil is ridiculous. He will command more from the team who signs him. much more.
      2) if we dont pick up his option, there will be other teams willing to pick him up as a closer, i know that there are a bunch of closers in the market, but Putz is high on the talent end of the spectrum and with the exception of this season, he puts up the numbers. so even if he signs for a discounted price, it’ll likely not be with the mets.
      So i say, pick up the option, use him and deal him when his value is up.
    • Mets faithful November 2, 2009 at 2:18 pm

      We are not talking about the Royals or Indians here. This is the New York Mets. They can afford the 8 million to sure up the bullpen and maybe get some prospects in return for the minor league system.
      • GaryS November 2, 2009 at 2:52 pm

        As for JJ, the good points are attitude and the need for a good set-up man. With Feliciano and Putz, we have the 8th inning covered. also, it helps attract a good starter to consider their efforts will be safe. Money is something that should not be a fan’s consideration. the Mets have plenty and they waste it frequently. signing Perez for $12M when no one else would have offered $5mm if that. Why is protecting a lead in the 8th worth so much less than protecting a lead in the 9th?. last’s night WS game proved the value of a great closer over one that had already had his career season. Chamberlain is a good pitcher but the Phillies homered with 2 outs in the 8th. Putz is better than Joba in that role. I rest my case.
        • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 9:36 am

          GARY, WHILE U R RESTING, PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW U KNOW JJ’S ELBOW IS 100% HEALTHY & CAPABLE OF REPEATED USE REQUIREMENTS? BTW, IT’S A GENERALLY ACCEPTED FACT THAT THE CLOSER’S JOB HAS MORE PRESSURE ASSOCIATED WITH IT. ASK ANY CIRCUS HIGHWIRE PERFORMER, “WHAT MAKES PERFORMING WITHOUT A NET MORE STRESSFUIKL THAN PRACXITCING WITH ONE?” GARY? ARE U INSANE? OF COURSE CLOSERS HAVE MORE PRESSURE/STRESS & THUS MORE VALUE, BTW THERE ARE 30 CLOSERS IN BASEBALL, GOD KNOWS HOW MANY SETUPS? SUPPLY/DEMAND WERE U NOT PAYING ATTENTION WHEN WAGS CRUMPLED? THE PHILLY CONSTERNATION OVER LIDGE INEFFECTIVNESS? DON’T THEY HAVE OTHER RELIEVERS? GARY, THE NYM HAVE A BUDGET, MOST EXPERRTS VALUE AT 30M ADDITIONAL SPENDING & U PROPOSE BLOWING 8.6M ON AN UNTESTED SURGICALLY REPAIRED ELBOW WITHOUT BLINKING AS INSURANCE FOR POTENTIAL POSSIBLE BREAKDOWN OF YOUR 11.5M CLOSER? 8.6 WAS HIS OPTION VAlUE FOR HIS CLOSER’S CONTRACT FROM SEATTLE & DESPITE HIS ARM SURGERIES BEING UNTESTED U ADVOCATE PAYING IT? WHY? U CITE OTHER BAD SIGNINGS, SO SUDDENLY MORE IS RIGHT? ARE U INSANE? OR R U JJ’S AGENT?
        • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 1:00 pm

          GARY, RESTING WHAT CASE? CAN PUTZ’ ELBOW STILL DELIVER THAT DEVASTATING SPLIT? CAN HE GO 2 OR 3 SUCCESSIVE DAYS? HOW WOYULD CHAMBERLAON HAVE FARED WITHOUT NYY SCREWING WITH HIS INNINGS LIKE HE WAS MADE OF FINE CRYSTAL & KEPT TO SETUP ROLE? IN ANOTHER POST U EXPOUND ON BATTING MURPH SECOND & REYES THIRD TO PRODUCE MORE RUNS. I HAVE TO ASK IF U EXPECT REYES TO CARRY PLODDING LEADFOOT MURPHY AROUND THE BASES? I LOVE JOSE’S TALENT; BUT A #3 HITTER IS NOT BEST USE OF HIS TALENTS. DON’T EVER DISREGARD THE IMPORTANCE OF THE FASTBALLS HE GENERATES TO SUCCESSIVE BATTERS. PERHAPS A MUCH BETTER USE WOULD BE BELTRAN, #2 SEEING FASTBALLS GALORE & MURPH #3. WHILE CASTILLO MAY HAVE EXCELLENT NUMBERS FOR A TYPICAL #2 HITTER, THAT’S IMPORTANT IF U MUST/NEED TO RELY ON BAT CONTROL TO ADVANCE THE LEADOFF HITTER. WITH REYES AT TOP HE DOESN’T REQUIREW BUNTING OVER, IT’S A WASTED OUT IN MY OPINION, PERHAPS A #2 WHO CAN TAKE BETTER ADVANTAGE OF ENSUING FASTBALLS IS A BETTER ANSWER FOR THE LINEUP. I ADMIRE YOUR CREATIVITY; BUT BELIEVE YOU MAY BE SACRIFICING REYES’ GREATEST ATTRIBUTE. I WATCH TOO MANY MET GAMES OFF COMPETITOR FEEDS ATL,CINC,GNATS & CAN ATTEST IT’S REYES MOST OFTEN SINGLED OUT AS THE MAIN FOCAL POINT BY OPPONENTS AS “THE MAN” TO KEEP QUIET. JOSE IS NOT SORIANO,RAMIREZ OR HENDERSON(RICKEY) WITH MURPH IN FRONT OF HIM TOO MANY TRIPLES MAY END UP DOUBLES. MURPH MAY END UP SETTING A NEW RECORD FOR “THROWN OUT @PLATE” REGARDLESS OF 3B COACH
      • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 9:42 am

        FAITHER, U DO REALIZE MOST PUDITS/EXPERTS VALUE NYM INVESTMENT @ APPROX 30M? U THINK INVESTING 8.6 IN AN UNPROVEN SURGICALLY REPAIRED ELBOW IS PRUDENT? SPENDING CLOSER MONEY ON A SETUP IS REALLY DUMB! BTW THE 8.6M OPTION WAS ON JJ’s CLOSER’S CONTRACT FROM SEATTLE. K-ROD ONLY EARNED 8.5 LAST YR & 11.5 THIS. ISN’T 8.6 FOR INSURANCE A TAD REDICULOUS? IF U EVER CRITICIZED OMAR FOR CASTILLO OR PEREZ & ARE ADVOCATING 8.6 FOR PUTZ, YOUR KEYBOARD SHOULD FUSE TOGETHER!
• METS62FAN November 2, 2009 at 1:59 pm

  PULSIPHER, RE. WHAT JJ CAN COMMAND AS A CLOSER ELSEWHERE, CONSIDER HIS INJURY RECOVERY IS UNTESTED & AMOUNT PAID BY OTHERS FOR CLOSER POSITION:
  BALTIMORE-470K
  JAYS-1.45M
  BRAVES-3.45M
  PHILLIES-11.5M
  CUBS-575K
  LAD-1.8M
  COMPARATIVELY 8M IS A GOOD WAGE FOR AN UNINJURED OPTION, NOT A QUETIONABLE ONE & CERTAINLY EXHORBATANT FOR A QUESTIONABLE SETUP PITCHER. RE. HOW I’D FIGURE A PARTIAL CLOSER ROLE ON JJ, I GUESS ON A PER DIEM/GAME BASIS. I DON’T KNOW; IT’S A COMPETITIVE LEAVERAGE OPTION U HOPE NEVER TO NEED TO ACTIVATE. IT’S UNFORTUNATE THAT AS NY FANS WE OFTEN LOOSE SIGHT OF COMPETITIVE ECONOMICS WE THINK TOO OFTEN IN TERMS THAT EVERY SINGLE CLUB IS AIMING FOR THE WS WHERE THE MORE LIKELY GOAL FOR THEM IS A BERTH IN THE POSTSEASON. THERE ARE 2/3rds OF THE FRANCHISES WHOSE PAYROLLS ARE > 100M WITH NO PLANS TO EXCEED IT ANYTIME SOON. IN ’09 SEATTLE’S PAYROLL OF 99M RANKED 10th OUT OF 30 FRANCHISES.
• jdon November 2, 2009 at 4:53 pm

  the guy has had two surgeries this year. sayonara
• Ace November 2, 2009 at 5:17 pm

  I don’t think we should bring him back. He really didn’t show much IMO, and on top of that he did alot of crying about setting up KROD. If he wanted to be the closer, he should’ve worked harder.
  • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 8:56 am

    ACE, ONE OF THE DUMBEST COMMENTS I’VE EVER READ, “HE SHOULD’VE WORKED HARDER”. WITH THE ROCK OF GIBRALTER BONE CHIP IN HIS ELBOW? SORRY, I’VE ONLY READ SUPPORTIVE COMMENTS FROM JJ Re.FRANKIE. WHAT WHINING ARE U TALKING ABOUT? HE WASN’T AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO REALLY WHINE! PERSONALLY I LET OPTION LAPSE, SHOP AROUND, IF HE’S BEST AVAILABLE & MED RPTS ARE POSITIVE, BRING HIM BACK TO SETUP FOR 2Y/3M.
    • Ace November 3, 2009 at 10:08 am

      I never said he had bad things to say about KROD, he complained about not being the closer and coming in before KROD. If he wants to be the closer he has to be better than KROD, that is what I said. Now as far as you go, you know ’62, you continually resort to insults and name calling with your responses to people. A disability is no excuse for rude behavior. I have said this to you many times, but here goes another try: KEEP YOUR RUDE REPLIES TO YOURSELF!
  • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 11:04 am

    ACE,PERHAPS I MISSED IT; BUT I DON’T RECALL HIS “CRYING” ABOUT SETUP DUTY. I’M SORRY IF U INTERPRET SOME OF MY COMMENTARY AS INSULTING; BUT WHEN OBVIOUS BIAS & LACK OF FACTS ARE EVIDENT, I DO NOT BELIEVE CALLING THEM OUT IS INSULTTING. UNLIKE MANY OTHERS I RARELY RESORT TO NAME CALLING, RATYHER U MAY NEED TO UNDERSTAND DESCRIBING AN IDEA AS DUMB OR INANE/INSANE IS NOT AN INSULT BY MY STANDARDS. I DO BELIEVE ANYONE WHO PRESUMES A BLACK & WHITE WORLD EXISTS OR THAT ANY MAJOR LEAGUE EXECUTIVE WITH OVER 20 YRS OF MLB EXPERIENCE IS “AN IDIOT” IS SHOWING A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AND TOO MUCH FANTASY INVOLVEMENT!
    I USE THAT REFERENCE AS THE ONE TOPIC I RECAL MOST PREVELANT AMONGST OUR MANY DISAGREEMENTS AND AS I RECALL YOU’VE CERTAINLY BEEN THE MORE INSULTING WITH PERSONEL REMARKS.
    • theonlymaskman November 4, 2009 at 8:33 pm

      Sorry 62, but I have never once seen an insulting comment or remark from Ace. However, your comments frequently demean the intelligence of the other poster. You quite often insinuate negative comments about their intelligence. Guess what, that is insulting. My advice is to keep it simple and offer your opinion while respecting the right of others to post theirs.
  • theonlymaskman November 4, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Ace, I totally agree with your assessment regarding Putz. I don’t understand the Mets fans who have commented here regarding his “great attitude and toughness”. I think that’s completely incorrect as he appeared to be more of a whiner to me. He couldn’t focus on the setup role. My opinion is that he’s a closer wannabe with limited ability. Given the risk associated with his surgeries and no evidence of recovery from them, there is no way he should be signed for next year. Forget about offering him a FA contract. Time to say goodbye to Putz as another failed Omar deal.
    • Ace November 4, 2009 at 9:14 pm

      Thanks Mask. You know, one of the biggest problems I see nowadays is alot of players have a sense of entitlement. What I mean is alot of players seem to feel they are entitled to posistions or money because they play in the MLB. IMO, your entitled to whatever your hard work/performance shows. Putz was never better than KROD IMO, and if he wants to be “the closer”, then the answer is simple, be the best. Or, simply play the role your given and be grateful your able to play in the world’s top level of baseball. I say the Mets have much bigger roles to address than Putz this offseason, if he goes away so be it, but in no way is any type of re-signing priority.
      • METS62FAN November 5, 2009 at 9:02 am

        ACE, I’D LOVE TO KNOW WHY U BELIEVE PUTZ WAS ‘CRYING’ ABOUT NOT CLOSING SINCE EVERYTHING I’VE READ,HEARD INDICATES JUST THE OPPOSITE. DO U HAVE A SOURCE INDICATING OTHERWISE? EITHER WAY I AGREE JJ ISN’T A PRIORITY, OMAR SHOULD BIDE HIS TIME, LET THE MKT ESTABLISH HIS VALUE. I WOULD NOT AVTIVATE OPTION NOR WOULD I TENDER AN INITIAL OFFER. I WOULDN’T LOWBALL; BUT OFFER ONLY A TAD ABOVE MKT VALUE. ALL OF THIS DEPENDS UPON POSITIVE MEDICAL REPORTS Re. RECOVERY LIKELIHOOD.
    • METS62FAN November 5, 2009 at 9:19 am

      MASK, PERHAPS I CAN GET A CLEARER UNDERSTANDING FROM U, I’VE ATTEMPTED TO ASCERTAIN FROM ACE WHERE THESE ALLEGATIONS PUTZ WAS UNHAPPY
      &^ “CRYING” REGARDING SETUP TO NO AVAIL. THIS COMMENT FROM U INDICATES IT’S YOUR IMPRESSION. IS THERE ANY ACTRUAL QUOTES,COMMENTS SUPPORTING THIS ALLEGATION?
      I’VE NEVER READ OR ACTUALLY HEARD ANYTHING FROM JJ OTHER THAN HIS STATEMENTS INDICATING HIS DESIRE TO BE BEST SETUP HE CAN BE.(CLOSING OUT GAMES IN 8th)
      REGARTDING ACE’S INSINUATIONS JJ DIDN’T WORK HARD ENOUGH, IN LIGHT OF ALL WE’VE LEARNED ABOUT PUTZ’ INJURY IS THAT NOT A TAD INANE? YOU DON’T REQUIRE MORE WORK FROM AN ATHELETE THAT’S INJURED, LET ALONE REQ. SURGERY! I’M CERTAINLY NOT ARGUING THAT JJ WAS “AS ADVERTISED” OR AS EFFECTIVE AS POSSIBLE; BUT HIS STRUGGLES FROM MY OBSERVATION WERE OBVIOUSLY INJURY/PAIN RELATED AS WE RARELY GOT TO SEE HIS SIGNATURE DEVASTATING SPLIT NOR THE VELOCITY HE’S CAPABLE OF. 2 ME THAT SPEAKS INABILITY NOT LAZINESS OR ENTITLEMENT AS ACE HAS POSTULATED.
      • Ace November 5, 2009 at 10:58 am

        You really need to thoroughly read posts before commenting. I never said Putz was lazy or didn’t work hard enough. what I said was if he wanted to be better than KROD, he needed to work harder and be better than KROD. I am also on record for saying KROD was not all he should’ve/could’ve been as well, and would be a nice piece to this bullpen blog to evauluate him as well. He started off well but after the last series with the skankees he never recovered. I do not have any references to post of Putz’s complaining but I do recall it early on in the season. I have no patience for players complaining about roles they “should be” playing.
• Lifelongmetsfan November 2, 2009 at 6:46 pm

  There is another angle on the bring-or-not-being Putz back argument.
  And that is the health of our closer Rodriquez. Rodriquez was not throwing well toward the end of the year. injury? fatigue? indifference?
  Something was or is up with Rodriquez.
  If Rodriquez does go down for any length of time in 2010 who would close games? Parnell? Faliceiano?
  I agree 8 million would be money well spent for a proven reliever and very much worth the peace of mind knowing there is a pitcher with a proven track record as a closer just in case our suspicions regarding a possible Rodriquez arm problem are true.
  • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 8:50 am

    LIFER, 8.6M IN POSSIBLE INSURANCE FOR AN 11.5M ASSET? A BIT OVERKILL. NO? IN THE CURRENT MARKETPLACE WITH NO BIG SPENDING TEAM ie NYY,BSX,CHC,LAA,LAD IN THE MKT FOR A CLOSER OR SETUP. WHO DO U SUPPOSE IS GOING TO SPEND BIG ON A “FORMER” CLOSER TURNED SETUP WITH AN UNPROVEN SURGICALLY REPAIRED ELBOW? LET JJ DETERMINE HIS VALUE IN THE F/A MKT, THEN PAY MINIMUM TO BRING HIM BACK! THAT OPTION WAS ON HIS CLOSER’S CONTRACT & SET AT AVG. CLOSER $. 2Y/3M SHOULD SEAL THE DEAL HANDILY MOST CLOSER’S ARE LESS THAN THAT OF THE 30 ACTIVE ONES. KEEP IN MIND ONLY 9 TEAMS HAVE PAYROLLS >100M OF THEM ONLY DET WHO’LL MOST LIKELY RESIGN RODNEY WITH HIS ONLY 1 BS OUT OF 38 SVO FOR 2.7M IN ’09. RODNEY CERTAINLY IS DETROIT’S SMARTER TARGET AS PROVEN & NOT UNKNOWN ELBOW HEALTH AFTER REPEATED APPEARANCES RAISES HUGE ? THE SMART MONEY WOULD LET THE OPTION LAPSE & COMPETE FOR JJ ON OPEN MKT, PLAYING IT VERY ALOOF AS TO INTIMATE TO OTHER TEAMS WE KNOW OF A PHYSICAL ISSUE THAT’S UNDISCLOSED. LET JJ COME TO US RATRHER THAN SETTING HIS PRICE FOR HIM. WHAT’S THAT OLD LINE,”WE’VE PROVEN WE CAN LOSE WITHOUT HIM! HE HAS TO PROVE WE CAN WIN WITH HIM IF HE WANTS DECENT $.
  • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    LIFER, WHILE CONSIDERING THE REASONS FOR K-ROD’S LATE INEFFECTIVNESS, 2 POTENTIAL CAUSES U MISSED WOULD BE RUST(LACK OF REGULAR USE) & LOWERED ADRENELIN LEVEL(GOING NOWHERE) QUITE POSSIBLY THE MOST OVERHYPED K-ROD STAT IS HIS MLB BEST # SAVES IN ’08 ESP SINCE FUENTES LED MLB IN SAVES IN ’09. PERHAPS IT HAS MORE TO DO WITH CLUB THAN PITCHER. Re YOUR GENEROSITY TO DELGADO FOR 2/32M THAT HAS YET TO POST; I’M FLABERGASTED THAT ANYONE WOULD THINK HE’D BE WORTH AS MUCH NOW AT AGE 37 COMING OFF SERIOUS INJURY THAN HE WAS IN ’05 – ’07. FEW EVER CREDIT OMAR WITH THE STEAL HE MADE ON DELGADO, IN FACT, U MAY RECALL THE 4/52 DEAL HE INKED WITH FISH WAS MATCHED BY NYM WITH NY PAYING HIS NYS & NYC INCOME TAXES TO EQUAL IT WITH FL NOT HAVING SUCH TAX ISSUES. NOT ONLY DID OMAR ACQUIRE HIM JUST 1Y LATER HE GOT FL TO KICK IN 7M & DELGADO PAID HIS OWN TAXES.
    I DO AGREE ONLY IF DELGADO CAN ESTABLISH NO LOSS OF BAT SPEED SOMEHOW SHOULD NYM KEEP HIM VIABLE AS AN FALLBACK OPTION SHOULD GONZAKLES & FEILDER PROVE UNATTAINABLE; BUT NOWHERE NEAR THAT AMOUNT. THETY SHOULD BE PATIENT HERE AS WELL AS WITH PUTZ & LET BOTH ASCERTAIN A MKT VALUE FROM OTHER SUITORS THAN NYM SHOULD OUTBID COMPETIOTORS & KEEP THEM BOTH.
    PERSONALLY BOTH ARE CONSIDERED UNPROVEN DAMAGED GOODS AT THIS JUNCTURE OF THEIR CAREERS WHICH MAKES A LOT OF INTEREST AT HIGH $ VERY UNLIKELY IN A DOWN ECONOMY.
• GaryS November 3, 2009 at 9:40 am

  This has been beat to death. Putz has a great past and injuries or not, he’s a proven closer when healthy. The Phillies are in the WS and doing well with a somewhat suspect bullpen and no clear closer. The Mets must have a better bullpen that the Phils in 2010 or we go nowhere. We definitely will not have a better starting 5. As a change of topic, every announcer is raving about Victorino but a weighed comparison of stats and talent in 2009 show that Angel Pagan is equal or slightly better. Beltran, Pagan and Francour match up OK against Ibanez, Victorino, and Werth. We must sign Delgado, sorry Murph. and Putz
• Lifelongmetsfan November 3, 2009 at 10:22 am

  Here! Here! Gary is right on!
• Lifelongmetsfan November 3, 2009 at 11:12 am

  Delgado 2 yrs/32 Million
  Lackey 4 yrs/51 million
  Putz pick up the 8.6 Million dollar option

  Now at least we have a chance to compete IF Delgado, Beltran and Reyes have “normal” yrs. in 2010.

  Ok… Let the responses fly………………
  • Danny Krieger November 3, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Delgado can be had for less than half that amount. But what makes you think he will ever again have a “normal” year. He had serious hip surgery and may never be the same and he was already in decline
    • GaryS November 3, 2009 at 12:01 pm

      Danny, Delgado already in decline? He had a great end in 2008, began 2009 just fine. If reasonably healthy his position is not that demanding, and he can hit. a quintessential clean-up man and the only one we have. Or sign Dunn and put him at 1B, hammer hands and all.
      • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 12:11 pm

        GARY, I DON’T BELIEVE DUNN IS AVAILABLE TO SIGN & GNATS CLAIM HE’S NOT BEING DEALT(ESTABLISHED WHEN THEY DEALT JOHNSON) THE GNATS ELIMINATED NICK JOHNSON ESTABLISHING THEIR INTENT AS DUNN IS UNDER CONTRCT FOR ’10 @ 12M.
  • Shamsky November 3, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Forget Delgado! Get Adam LaRoche in here if you cant trade for Gonzalez. Delgado is the poster boy for all that went wrong last season. Forget Delgado!!!
    • METS62FAN November 4, 2009 at 9:45 am

      SHAMSKY, THE NYM OUTFIELDER OR SHAMSKY, THE …RAYMOND BULLDOG?
      EITHER WAY CHECK OUT La ROCHE’S SPLITS. NEGLIGIBLE OFFENSE EARLY ONLY PRODUCTION POST-BREAK. DOUBT HE LEAVES ATL!
• GaryS November 3, 2009 at 11:56 am

  LL Mets fan. Thanks for the comments about 62. Insults amongst other things of proof of an infertile and lazy mind, and I suspect an IQ of 62. Let’s pick up where you left off. I’m a fan not masquerading as a GM but if I were, I would rather be Brian Cashman than Omar Minaya. Delgado and Putz should be available for less money. Lackey gives us a #2 and then we have 4 pitchers competing for the 4-6 spot. More detail later but a healthy Maine is the only viable #3 and I’m not sure he’ll be healthy. Pelfry need to do nothing but watch movies of Don Drysdale, use his 4 seamer to move batters off the plate and then use his 2 seamer as his out pitch. If he learns and develops some confidence in a change up or slow breaking ball, he’ll get some strikeouts. His slider is a good hitter’s home run. Perez is a talented head case who may never mature. Redding is a losing team’s #4 or perhaps a winning team’s #5 at best. Figeroa has great stuff but no real MPH differentiation in his pitches. When he’s off he’s very hittable and it’s too late for him to change. Long relief. Jury is out on Parnell and Neise. Nieve had an ERA below 3.00 so needs to be considered. Green sucks.
  Castillo had a great year and worth his salary, but needs to be watched. with Delgado at 1B, let Murphy, a competent fielding 1Bman compete with Castillo for the starting 2B role. Sign Hernandez as a back-up.
  Line-up, and consider before saying I’m crazy…Pagan, Castillo (Murphy), Reyes, Delgado, Beltran, Wright, Francoeur, Santos. 4 SWHitters. Reyes is a better RBI man than Wright historically when you look at RBI vs. RBI opps. Great defense for Citifield. Lots of runs.
  • METS62FAN November 3, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    GARY, GIVE ME A BREAK! U’VE INCLUDED MORE INSULTS OF ME IN YOUR FIRST PARAGRAPH THAN I’VE ISSUED EVER. U MAY NOTE I NEVER REFER TO ANYONE PERSONALLY. I READILY ADMIT I WILL INSULT AN IDEA; BUT NEVER A PERSON.
    YOU DO SEEM TO BE ONE OF THE FEW TO REALIZE PELFREY IS ATTEMPTING TO TRANSFORM HIMSELF BACK TO A SWING & MISS SP FROM PETERSON’S GB CONTACT PREFERENCE.
    PERSONALLY, RATHER THAN SEE HIM TRY TO EMULATE A GREAT PITCHER WHOSE STYLE IS PAST, I’D PREFER TO SEE HIM UTILIZE WHAT RICK TAUGHT HIM USING HIS SINKER JUDICUOSLY RATHER THAN IGNORING IT! HE DID TAKE A STEP BACK BY DOING THIS & TOO OFTEN TRYING TO SNEAK THE CHEESE PAST THE BIG RATS INSTEAD OF SINKERBALLING A FIELDER,PUJOLS,ETC WITH MEN ON HE TRIED TO OVERPOWER THEM. DUMB! BEFORE PETERSON, IN COLLEGE, FB & CURVES WERE HIS STYLE, PETERSON CONVERTED HIM TO SINKER/CHANGE/SLIDER. HE SHOULD USE ALL OF THEM SPOTTINGLY. MUCH LESS PREDICTABLE. IN TENUOUS SITUATIONS AGAINST POWERHITTERS HE SHOULD POCKET #1 & PITCH OFF HIS POWER SINKER.

    I’D PREFER OMAR MAKE A RUN AT A GONZALES OR FIELDER DEAL BEFORE SETTLING ON DELGADO RETURN. THE BEST POTENTIAL F/A 1B IS LaROCHE; BUT HE’LL LIKELY NEED TO BE DYNOMYTED OUT OF ATLANTA AFTER HE CRIED SO MUCH WHEN THEY’D FIRST DEALT HIM TO PITT. BESIDES La ROCHE IS NON-EXISTANT PRIOR TO BREAK OFFENSIVELY; BUT MAKES UP FOR IT LATE. A FACT HE READILY OWNS UP TO AS UNEXPLAINABLE.
    • GaryS November 3, 2009 at 2:01 pm

      62,
      You’ll note I spent very little time reacting to your harangue and most of my content on Mets comment. La Roche is not our answer. the Braves had La Roche, Francoeur and Chipper in one lineup and didn’t win, even with a healthy and hitting Andru Jones. This team desperately needs a real proven number and all the experiments proved we didn’t have one. I’m not sure Delgado’s age has impacted his reflexes and he began 2009 as a better hitter. The stars on the team like him and he’s a clubhouse leader.
      • METS62FAN November 4, 2009 at 10:04 am

        GARY, DELGADO’S VIABILITY DEPENDS UPON HIS BATSPEED. HIS 4 HR PRIOR TO INJURY PORTENDS A TYPICAL 30ish HR TOTAL. TO ME OMAR SHOULD LEAVE LF & C TO END, FIRST FOCUS ON 1B TRADE TARGETS FIRST, ASCERTAIN COST IN TALENT FOR FIELDER, SECOND, GONZALES, THIRD IF 1 OR 2 FAIL TALK INCENTIVES W/CARLOS, THEN SHOP SPing & LF FIRST 2 ARE WINTER MEETING ITEMS. YOUR THIOUGHTS ON MY PRIORITIES?
• Lifelongmetsfan November 3, 2009 at 12:51 pm

  ok now we have a dialog!
  For me Delgado having a “normal” year for him would be 25-30 home runs 100+ rbi’s As far offering him Big $$$ well.. lets hope the Mets get a deal on him but I tend to over inflate contract numbers when I speculating so I’ll take yours words that Delgado can be had for less.
  I have stated this over and over again but my interest in Degado is simply to get 25-30 homeruns 100 rbi’s into the Met lineup. Yes! I think Delgado is still capable of producing those numbers. i WOULDN’T BE ADVOCATING FOR THE METS TO SIGN HIM IF i THOUGHT HE WAS A 12 HOMERUN 65 RBI GUY like someone else we know.

  JJ Putz- do the Mets need a quality 8th inng setup guy who can also close games occasionally the answer is a resounding YES!
  I think Putz is last year’s Luis Castillo. Putz career numbers indicate that he will be reliable. I am assuming the reports are true and accurate that Putz is expected to throw pain free next year.
  Gee whiz… you don’t think the Phillie’s would love to sign Putz do you? Of course they would!

  The Mets NEED a power bat 25-30 homerun 100+ rbi guy
  Delgado gives us this.

  The Mets need a 8th inng setup and occasioanl closer to let Rodriquez “rest” his “non-injured/fatigued arm? elbow?” during the long season.
  Putz gives us this.

  I know Lackey is a Lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng shot and the Mets will most liely end up signing a queasy #3 pitcher instead of a quality #2 but..
  Can anyone say Jon Smoltz…. NOooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
• Lifelongmetsfan November 3, 2009 at 12:56 pm

  Thank God Dan Warthenis coming back!
• GaryS November 3, 2009 at 1:36 pm

  Lifer, 62, some good points and no comment on my lineup. 62 Pelfrey pitches like a small guy rather than a big guy. His 4 seamer rises and his 2 seamer sinks but he can’t locate his 4 seamer well. This means he could be intimidating hitters with it. As long as he throws it high, inside or outside doesn’t matter. That sets up his sinker for weak ground balls instead of line drives. He should be more intimidating so that’s why the reference to Drysdale. Drysdale really had great control but pitched like he didn’t. With incentive contracts being more prominent, a Delgado that drives in over 100 runs is with $10mm. He may agree to something that includes plate appearances and run production. Same for Putz, appearances and holds with getting into the top three worth 7-8mm.
  • METS62FAN November 4, 2009 at 10:32 am

    GARY, I SURMISE U MAY HAD MISSED KEVIN BURKHARDT’S IN DEPTH INTERVIEW WITH THE WICHITA STATE COACH AFTER THE COACH SAW PELF LIVE FOR FIRST TIME SINCE COLLEGE. COACH WAS SHOCKED AT THE TRANSFORMATION FROM COLLEGE APPROACH AS A ‘BIG’ POWER PITCHER RELYING ON OVERPOWERING FB & NASTY CURVE, THEN PELF WAS “PETERSONIZED”. I’VE LONG HELD THE BELIEF THAT ‘THEORIST’ PETERSON SPECIALIZED IN ACHIEVING TOP PERFOMANCES FROM MEDIOCRE RAW TALENT WITH HIS ‘PITCH TO CONTROLED CONTACT PHILOSOPHY’ PREFERING STRINGS AT KNEES TO PRODUCE GB INSTEAD OF HIGH,HARD HEAT TO PRODUCE MISSES. KAZMIR,BELL,LINSTRUM ALL BALKED AT BEING PERTERSONIZED & ALL DISCARDED BY “PITCHING GURU”. PELF’S ATTEMPTS TO RETURN TO ORIGINAL STYLE BROUGHT A ‘TEMPORARY’ BACKSTEP IN DEVELOPMENT UNDER WARTHEN; SHOULD PROVE-OUT IN LONGRUN. LET US PRAY!
    • GaryS November 4, 2009 at 11:33 am

      62, you are very well read. So you must also know the pathology of individuals using the caps lock key in online blogs is often attributed to anger, rampant insecurity and deep neurosis.
      Back to baseball. I think your Delgado or not strategy is fine. While Pagan lacks most of the intangibles that separate him from a Victorino, he has the perfect skill set for Citifield, will develop into a better leadoff hitter than Reyes, and will compete with Reyes for the MLB leadership in triples for sure. This makes LF either a done deal or a low priority.
      We can analyze Pelf to death but Peterson’s success along with other coaches who preached the pitch to contact philosophy is usually seen in pitchers with better control of two or more pitches than Pelf will ever have. Tom Glavine, Catfish Hunter, Jair Jurgens, Greg Maddox, many others including the new version of Pedro Martinez mix speeds and work the plate high and low, in or out or both. If you watch even more closely, they often change their focus from one pitch to another as the game progresses making it hard for hitters to adjust. Really excellent pitchers like Santana, Sabathia and Lee combine the inherent advantages of being lefthanders with a perfect delivery making their fastballs and change-ups undetectable to a hitter.

      I agree that Pelf is a much better pitcher when focusing on making hitters hit his power sinker but without a strategy that includes consistent performance of and confidence in his secondary pitches, he is doomed to be an average # 4 or 5 that good hitters catch up to around the sixth inning.
• METS62FAN November 5, 2009 at 10:29 am

  GARY, APPRECIATE YOUR COMPLIMENT ON MY ERUDITENESS; BUT YOU LEFT AN IMPORTANT CAUSE FOR CAPSLOCK USE OUT OF YOUR LITTANY OF:
  So you must also know the pathology of individuals using the caps lock key in online blogs is often attributed to anger, rampant insecurity and deep neurosis OR DISABILITY.
  AS U MAY NOTE I’VE CORRECTED YOUR OBSERVATION & ASS UMPTION. HAVE A GREAT DAY & ALWAY REALIZE WE’RE ALLIES NOT ANTAGONISTS IN OUR QUEST FOR FLUSHING FULFILLMENT!
  DON’T KNOW IF U AGREE OR NOT; BUT AFTER THE BREAK I NOTICED AN INCREASE IN PELF K-RATE TO ALMOST 1/IP IN SOME CASES, ABOUT DOUBLE WHAT IT HAD BEEN. UNFORTUNATLY, WE’VE A YOUNGISH PROMISING “STUFF” PITCHING STAFF RECEIVING MORE MIXED MESSAGES THAN CAN BE COMPREHENSIBLE THUS SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASING THE PAIN BROUGHT ON BY “GROWING PAINS. I TEND TPO AGREE WITH U Re: PELF’S HIGH-SIDE AS A 3 OR 4 IN A CHAMPIONSHIP ROTATION. MATCHUPS ARE TOO OFTEN DISCOUNTED & WHILE I AGREE THAT THEY’RE TYPICALLY UNRELATED SHORTLY AFTER A ROTATION IS SET SUCH AS #1s,2s,3s,4s,5s FACING EACH OTHER IT DOES DETERMINE A NEIGHBORHOOD OF MATCHUPS 4s TYPICALLY FACE OTHER 3,4,5 NOT OFFTEN 1 OR 2s 2s AS OFTEN SEE 1s AS OTHER 2s NOT SO MUCH 4 OR 5s, THUS PELF AS A #4 WILL HAVE A MISREADABLE AMOUNT OF SUCCESS BY FACING 3,4,5s INSTEAD OF 1,2s AS HE TOO OFTEN DID LAST SEASON. JUST MY THOUGHTS, NOT GOSPEL GUARANTEE; BUT OBSERVATION. I SEE TOO MUCH THE SAME ISSUES WITH ALL BUT SANTANA IN OUR MAIN ROTATION BE IT MAINE,PELF,PEREZ, HEADCASES FOCUSED MORE ON ‘PERFECT’ EXECUTIONS & NOT ADJUSTMENTS AS NEEDED. PEREZ SEEMS TOO OVEWRWHELMED BY IT ALL, MAINE & PELF TOO DISCONCERTED. THEY ALL SEEM TOO SUSCEPTIBLE TO UMPIRES TAKING THEM OUT OF THEIR GAMES WHICH IS WHY I ADVOCATE FOR A STRONG WILLED DOMINATING EXPERIENCED CATCHING PRESENCE. I DON’T ‘KNOW’ OF ANY ONE SOLUTION; PERHAPS A BILINGUAL SPORTS SHRINK THAT PRACTICES HYPNOSIS ala SMOLTZ PRIOR TO HIS VERY FIRST PLAYOFF SERIES Vs PITTS.LOL IN CONFUSION/FRUSTRATION/DESPERATION
  • GaryS November 5, 2009 at 11:24 am

    If there was any such thing as cogent rambling, 62 provided a great sample. The idea is to win the world series and Girardi out managed Manuel by understanding matchups better and pitching Sabathis, Burnett, and Petitte on three days rest. If these were the best of team, then we see how weak their pitching was yet way superior to ours. Which s why I’d like to have Putz under reasonabe terms. The Mets are full of ifs, some I believe and some I don’t. I believe in “if David Wright can hit for more power and drive in 100 runs (from #6). I believe that Reyes will return to from. I believe that Maine will emerge healthy and be an effective #3 and I believe Pagan is as good as shane victorino in producing runs. I believe Castillo will falter and Murphy has to be considered as a second baseman because the person playing 1B MUST drive in over 100 runs. I believe Beltran will have a good year. In 2008, I wrote on many blogs early in May that Delgado was the key to the team, and if not for the failure of and injuries to the bullpen late in the season, Delgado may have carried this team to the playoffs. He is the #4 hitter, leader and catalyst for this team. Gonzalez would be better and so would fielder but Delgado is my third choice and maybe best hope if he’s reasonable healthy. We must, must, must get a #2 pitcher. no if’s ands or buts. We don’t have one. Perez will not mature but if he cuts down on walks a lot, he is so talented he may win 13-15 games. Pelfrey, despite the NY hype is at best a slightly better than average journeyman innings eater unless he can surround his power sinker with quality secondary pitches. PERIOD! In the playoffs and works series, you need 6 absolutely dominant and competitive pitchers. The Phillies had 1 with 2 close. The Yankees had six including the emergence of Marte in the series. didn’t you laugh at Omar when you saw chan ho Park and Pedro play major if somewhat ineffective roles in the playoff?
    • MetsKnicksRutgers November 5, 2009 at 1:03 pm

      Everybody is judging Pelfrey on this season way too early, when it was extremely similar to his 2008 season. Pelf is never gonna be a dominant number 1 at least IMO, but he was a strong number 2 in 2008 and he can improve that. I am just curious but what is your opinion of porcello? Because if pelf had the defense that porcello had behind him his ERA woulda been much closer to a high 3 than a low 5.
• METS62FAN November 5, 2009 at 12:00 pm

  GARY, YOUR “I BELIEVE” POST HAS YET TO SURFACE FOR REBUTTAL; BUT LET ME SAY I BELIVE IN ALL BUT 2 OF YOUR STATEMENTS, TO BE SUCCINCT:
  FIRST,PAGAN, U OVERRATE, HE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE BETTER THAN VICTORINO; BUT ISN’T. THINK MORE VERSATILE(SWHING) ENDY CHAVEZ.
  SECOND, MURPH FAILED AT 2B IN LAST YR’S AFL. THINK BENCH REPL FOR TATIS AS 12B/3B B/U & PHer.
  MOSTLY I’D ADD, THIS TEAM SANS DELGADO DOES NOT HAVE EITHER A #2 SP OR #4 CLEANUP HITTER. THEY BETTER GET BOTH TO COMPETE. THEY REQUIRE AT LEAST 50 MORE HR REGARDLESS OF SOURCE. 1 PLAYER LIKE FIELDER OR MULTIPLES LIKE HOLLIDAY,MOLINA,LaROCHE OR INCR #s FROM WRIGHT/FRANCOUER.TOTAL MUST BE MIN OF 50, IN MY OPINION.
• GaryS November 5, 2009 at 12:56 pm

  Thank you 62. We can talk only about Pagans potential and his numbers in 2009 weighted against Victorinos are both better (slightly) and factual. His triples per AB was the best in all baseball helped by Citifield no doubt but that’s where he plays. 30 of your missing 50 home runs should come from Beltran and Wright plus ten more from Francoeur in a full season. so 50 not enough. 200-250 more runs is better. Pagan can score 100 from leadoff and add 75-90 for a healthy Castillo. Reyes could easily be a 90-90 man and then 3 of next 4 (Delgado, Beltran, Wright, Francoeur) should get over 100 RBI’s with the last man 85-95. RBI’s and doubles more important in Citifield than HRs, and the Mets should lead the league in triples and early scoring.
  all of the above only made possible with a real clean-up hitter like a Fielder or Gonzalez.
  As for murphy, he didn’t turn heads at 1B and eventually played better the expected. If he can play first, he can play second. He works very hard and I think he has a better chance to learn to field anther IF position well than hit for power and run production.
  • MetsKnicksRutgers November 5, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    RsBI are a meaningless stat, and Murphy had the 2nd best range in the NL at first albeit a small sample size.
  • METS62FAN November 6, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
    GARY, I’M CONVINCED BY THE FOLLOWING:
    http://host.madison.com/sports/columnists/dennis_punzel/article_c7e22a20-15d8-50bc-be6d-b9099b401401.html
    THAT FIELDER CAN BE ACQUIRED FOR A PKG BUILT AROUND OUR 2 BEST 3-5 SP(MAINE & PELFREY) I REALIZE IT’S LIKELY TO NEED MORE THAN THOSE 2; BUT MELVIN HAS ALSO SAID HE’D BE WILLING TO DEAL HIS TOP PROSPECT TO GET “ESTABLISHED, ROTATIONAL PITCHING(HE GETS TO KEEP HIS PROSPECT) IF NEED BE I’D INCLUDE MURPH; BUT THE MORE TIGHTNESS BROUGHT ON BY ECONOMY THE MORE VALUE TO INEXPENSIVE SERVICABLE OPTIONS. LOOK AT BREWS CURRENT ROTATION & U’LL SEE BOTH MAINE & PELF AFTER DOWN YRS COMPARE FAVORABLY. ALSO THE BREWS’ WINNINGEST SP LOOPER IS EXPECTED TO DECLINE HIS 6M TEAM OPTION TO TEST FA WATERS. LEAVING THEM SHORT TO BEGIN WITH FOR NEW PITCHING COACH RICK PETERSON. THE STARS MAY BE ALIGNED & I’D FORCE MELVIN TO WALK AWAY KNOWING HE’S FACING LOSING FIELDER OR GOING BROKE IN ARBITRATRION AGAINST SCOTT BORAS. ASSUMING WE’LL DEAL A SP, I PERSONALLY PREFER THEY GO FOR LACKEY AS #2 & MARQUIS AS #3 SOLIDIFYING A STRONG NL ROTATION OF SANTANA,LACKEY,MARQUIS,PEREZ,”BEST OF”. I’D ALSO PREFER MOLINA & FORSEE THAT ROTATION SUPPORTED BY A LINEUP OF”
    REYES
    BELTRAN
    WRIGHT
    FIELDER
    LF (HOLLIDAY OR BAY)(IF LF IS PAGAN THAN FRENCHY BATS 5th PAGAN 7th)
    MOLINA
    FRACOUER
    CASTILLO
    PITCHER
    WHAT SAY YOU? I THINK THAT’S DEEP ENOUGH TO STAY W/PHL ESP W/THAT ROTATION ADVANTAGE.
• GaryS November 5, 2009 at 1:23 pm

  RBI’s are a meaningless stat and range at first is powerful and meaningful. Rutgers is certainly not the school it used to be
  • MetsKnicksRutgers November 5, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    I never said range at first is very important at all. you said he didn’t turn heads at first, which isn’t true he was awesome over there. Would I prefer a realistic option like Nick Johnson? Of course, but I am not ok with trading Mejia F! Tejada and Maybe Holt also for a player with 1 season of +4 WAR (gonzalez)

    and RsBI are meaningless… too dependent on the players batting in front. Had reyes batted third or 5th since 2006 hed probably have another 100 RsBIs
• GaryS November 5, 2009 at 2:03 pm

  Well you need to learn to read. I though Murphy was good at first and will be good at second. He batted 4th for a while with no success but he’s a born number 2. Agree on Reyes which is why I have him batting 3rd behind Pagan Castillo or Pagan Murphy. no winning team has a 75 RBI guy at 1B. Cmon, this leage has fielder, howard, Pulhos, la roche, gonzalez and others all better RBI 1bman than Murphy.
  • MetsKnicksRutgers November 5, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    i need to learn to read?

    “As for murphy, he didn’t turn heads at 1B and eventually played better the expected. If he can play first, he can play second. He works very hard and I think he has a better chance to learn to field anther IF position well than hit for power and run production.”

    that first sentence insinuates that he was at best mediocre when in reality he was awesome. If murph could play an average 2b hed have a ton of value and I hope that ends up happening, but if we sign holliday and the core comes back strong we can live with murph at 1b. It really doesnt matter what the rest of the league has at a certain position. If we had a premium power bat in RF we could make it with Murph at 1b but i dont think frenchie is any good so we could be in trouble.
    • METS62FAN November 6, 2009 at 11:19 am

      CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
      MKR, MURPH’S BEST FIELDING POSITION SUPRISINGLY HAS BEEN 1B, I’VE READ MANY COMMENTS FROM B-METS FANS EVALUATING HIS EFFORTS @ 3B AS BUTCHERY. HE FAILED LAST YR IN AZ @ 2B. IS LOST IN OOTFIELD, ALL OF WHICH MAKES MURPH ONE OF THE MOST ASTUTE SELF EVALUATORS IN BASEBALL WHEN HE STATED HIS POSITION AS BATTING THIRD. NO TRUER WORDS HAVE EVER BEEN SPOKEN.
      YES, HE’S AN EXTREMELY HARD WORKER WITH LUMBER; BUT OBVIOUSLY NOT LEATHER.
      A PROTOTYPICAL DESIGNED DH IF EVER THERE WAS ONE.
  • METS62FAN November 6, 2009 at 11:41 am

    CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
    GARY, WILL IT HELP IF I TYPE SLOWLY, M U R P H W E N T T O AZ L A S T O F F S E A S O N & FAILED @ 2B, MISERABLY BY ALL REPORTS!

    FORGET MURPH PLAYING ANYWHERE BUT DH OR 1B. WE AGREE HE ISN’T A STARTING 1B; OF THOSE U MENTION IN NL FIELDER & GONZALES ARE BOTH SUPPOSEDLY AVAILABLE THOUGH BREWS DENY SHOPPING PRINCE. LOGIC STATES THEY HAVE TO SINCE HIS 10.5M PER CONTRACT EXPIRES AFTER NEXT SEASON & DUE TO LACK OF SVC TIME IS NOT ELIGIBLE FA; BUT ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE WITH BORAS AS HIS REP. CAN U SPELL 20M AWARD? BREWS CAN’T/WON’T SPEND THAT. HED BE MY #1 TARGET I’D INCL MURPH IF NEED BE WITH MAINE & PELF + POSSIBLE FLOTSAM. GONZALES PER TOWERS MAY BE HAD EITHER ARE SUPERIOR 1B OPTIONS IF MURPH NOT DEALT PUTTING MURPH ON BENCH AS B/U & LH PHer.

    SORRY FOR THE EARLY SARCASM; BUT I’M TIRED OF REITERATING MURPHY’S LACK OF LEATHER SKILLS.
    • Danny Krieger November 6, 2009 at 11:48 am

      Not everyone agrees with you on Murphy not being a starting 1st baseman – at least for next year. I think he will improve significantly offensively and defensively.

      Give the guy a break. Do you realize what he went through last year being embarrassed in left field? That had an incredible impact on his batting. In addition, he started playing a position he never played before!

      He had to be very uncomfortable in all aspects of his game. Being such a hard worker, he should improve in everything and be much more relaxed.
      • METS62FAN November 7, 2009 at 10:23 am

        CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
        DANNY, I PREFER TO RESERVE MY ‘BREAKS’ FOR PLAYERS LIKE PAGAN WHO DUE TO BALLS2THE WALL EFFORTS HAS BEEN RESTRICTED IN PLAYING TIME/EXPERIENCE BY INJURIES; NOT PLAYERS WHO NEGLECTED DEFENSIVE DRILLS TO BECOME BETTER HITTERS. IT WAS MURPHY WHO CHOSE TO DEFINE HIMSELF AS A #3 HITTER INSTEAD OF AS A POSITIONAL PLAYER. METS POSITIONED HIM IN MILB @ 3B, REPORTS FROM B-METS FANS CLAIM HE BUTCHERED THE POSITION. IS THERE A LESS SKILLS DRIVEN POSITION ON THE BASEBALL DIAMIOND THAN LF? IF SO I DON’T KNOW OF IT. MURPH IS LIKE THE PERSON WHO CHOOSES TO DROP OUT OF SCHOOL THEN WANTS SYMPATHY FOR TROUBLE EARNING BIG $. SORRY, I PREFER THE DROPOUT WHO BROKE HIS ASS IN ALL-NIGHTERS; BUT FELL SHORT. GUYS WITH ‘I’NCOMPLETES GET NO SYMPATHY EXCEPT OUT OF A DICTIONARY IN MY BOOK! MURPH WAS A THIRD ROUNDER FOR A SOUND REASON, EXPECTING TO SPEED HIM THROUGH MINORS IS MET’ ISSUE THAT “HE IS, WHAT HE IS” ALL WOOD NO LEATHER. I’VE READ MUCH MORE ABOUT HIS TIRELESS WORK IN THE CAGES; BUT NOT ON THE FIELD. HE WENT TO AZ IN ’08 FALL INSTRUCTUIONAL TO LEARN 2B & FAILED MISERABLY BY MOST REPORTS. HE PKGD HIMSELF AS A DH & SIGNED WITH A NL FRANCHISE. I’M TO GIVE HIM A BREAK? FOR WHAT, STUPIDITY?
        • Danny Krieger November 7, 2009 at 1:37 pm

          I don’t know how you would know that Murphy doesn’t work hard on his fielding. That’s not fair of you to surmise.

          Also, you are totally wrong that Fielder can be had for two below average starters like Maine and Pelfrey. Maine is no #3 – and hasn’t been healthy in 2 years. The Brewers do not want him as the main chip for Fielder. Pelfrey is presently nothing more than a #5 starter.

          It would take those two plus Fernando and others to get Fielder. If Murphy is so bad, he has no value to the Brewers to replace Fielder. The Brewers can afford Fielder for one more year and then trade him. They have a lot of money coming off this year -see http://espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=mil.
• tlagee November 5, 2009 at 3:21 pm

  Wow, this is a tough call. J.J. is a gamer but did absolutely nothing for the Mets. As far as his ‘crying about not being a closer’ I did read early in the year that he was using the excuse that he was not able to “get it up” in the set up role like he could as a closer. I did not like that statement – but it could have been said in frustration over a bad wing.
  Glad it’s not my call whether to bring him back.
  As far as Delgado – the quick answer is – let’s not go there. I like Carlos but he is an example of the direction this team should not be heading in. The line up depended too much on his bat and when he went down the team went down with him. We can’t go another season like that.
  I’d like the team to do more in terms of getting players like Jeff Franceour. He’s young and has a really good upside. He’s passionate and will battle till the end.
  I’m sick of the “Los Mets” a team full of guys who put up good stats until September when they run out of steam.
  We can not continue to bring in post 30 players and expect them not to break down.
  • METS62FAN November 6, 2009 at 11:05 am

    CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
    TL, THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION ON THESE SUPPOSEDLY HORRIFIC PUTZ COMMENTS. RATHER THAN FIND IT WHINING OR COMPLAINING ABOUT NOT CLOSING, I SEE THEM AS A STATEMENT OF DEFINITE FACT, AN EXPLAINATION, IF YOU WILL, RESTATING A HISTORICAL FACT WE’VE ALL SEEN REGARDING CLOSERS & ADRENELIN. HOW MANY CLOSERS STRUGGLE IN NON-SAVE SITUATIONS, TUNEUPS OR MOPUPS? IT’S A FACT AS LONG AS I’VER BEEN A FAN(50 YRS). IT IS SOMETHING I WAS WARY OF WHEN THE ‘PLAN’ TO USE A FORMER TOP CLOSER AS SETUP WAS UNVEILED. AS AN EXAMPLE, I RECALL WILLIE CALLING IN WAGNER TO ‘GET WORK’ IN A MOPUP GAME WITH A LARGE LEAD Vs NYY IN A SHEA INTERLEAGUE GAME WHERE WAGNER WAS SHELLED & WE EMBARASSINGLY LOST. THE SAME THING USUALLY HAPPENED TO FRANCO, OROSCO, ETC. ONLY TIME I EVER RECALL IT WORKING IS WHEN A TEAM HAS BROUGHT UP 2 CL WORKING IN TANDEM AS IN ’86 WITH OROSCO & MEYERS, ATLANTA HAS DONE IT AT TIMES USING A CL BY COMMITTEE APPROACH, AS DID BOSTON 1 YR.MANY TIMES THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SETUP PITCHER & A CLOSER IS ADRENELIN RUSH & ABILITY TO HARNESS IT. TAKE AWAY THE ADENELIN & U HAVE MEDIOCRE MID-RELIEVER IN MANY CASES. JJ WAS SUPRISED BY THE LOSS OF EFFECTIVNESS BY LOSING “THE RUSH” aka BEING UP, IT’S A PHYSIOLOGICAL RATHER THAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE! TO CARP ON IT IS REDICULOUS, JUST CHALK IT UP AS A FAILED EXPERIMENT OR GOOD INTENTIONS/BAD RESULTS.
• Ace November 5, 2009 at 3:44 pm

  http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/05/news-mets-will-not-pick-up-putzs-option/
• GaryS November 6, 2009 at 2:07 pm

  62, First let me formally apologize for the CAP LOCK remark under the circumstances, which of course i did not know.
  I personally like Pagan as a leadoff hitter as well as the right guy to play LF in Citifield. He frees up money if you make him a starter. Putz is gone according to the NY Post and there is no reason why he would take a lot less money not to close. End of Discussion.
  Much as I like Murphy (I really so) we need real power and Fielder fits the bill. It will be hard to get a FA slugger to play in Citifield so trading for Fielder must include a longer term signing.
  Since we must sign Lackey to be competitive in the pitching strong NL East, then Maine and or Pelfrey become expendable. If both are healthy, I’d keep Maine. No one is discussing Nieve.
  I’d rather not have Reyes leading off and definitely do not want Wright batting 3rd. In the last 2 seasons, no one in baseball has had more RBI opportunities than Wright and his results were average at best.
  Why not try Reyes batting 3rd. He will draw more walks, get on with 2 outs, steal a base and get driven in with a single. Wright needs to cut down on strikeouts before we bat him 3rd.
  Doesn’t anyone see the value of three speedy SWhitters leading off and batting back to back to back?
  • METS62FAN November 7, 2009 at 9:44 am

    GARY, NO APOLOGY NECESSARY. I’M AS MUCH TO BLAME FOR LAZINESS AS ANYONE. I USED TO PREFACE EVERY REMARK/COMMENT WITH MY “CAPODSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION” UNTIL SOME WISE***ES CHOSE TO RESPOND TO ME AS CAPSLOCK & I’D BEEN ON THIS SITE LONG ENOUGH FOR REGULARS TO KNOW MY RATIONALE. I WAS A PAGAN FAN WHEN HE WAS PLAYING FOR AAA-TIDES & WAS DISAPPOINTED WHEN PHILLIPS’ DEALT HIM FOR SPARE BATS & BALLS TO CHC. MY BIGGEST ISSUES WITH COUNTING ON ANGEL ARE 1) INJURY PRONE, 2) INEXPERIENCE IN GAME SITUATIONS(DESPITE DEBUTING IN ’06 HE’S ONLY APPEARED IN 267G W/752 AB AMOUNTING TO A SMIDGE OVER 2 SEASONS PLAYING EXPERIENCE)LAST YR WAS HIS MOST PROLIFIC IN PLAYTIME 88G 343 AB. IF I HAD MY DRUTHERS I STILL GO REYES LEADOFF SINCE I’M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH HIS ABILITY TO ADAPT TO A POTENTIAL OCCASIONAL SLUGGER SLOT. MEN ON IN FRONT OF HIM WILL CURTAIL HIS BASESTEALING WHICH SUBTRACTS FROM THE FEAR FACTOR HE INDUCES ON BASE DISRUPTING PITCH PATTERNS. GARY IF I HAD MY ‘REALISTIC’ WISH GRANTED FOR ’10′s ROSTER MY ROTATION WOULD BE SANTANA, LACKEY, MARQUIS, PEREZ, NIEVE OR TBD SUPPORTED BY MY PREFERRED LINEUP:
    REYES
    BELTRAN
    WRIGHT
    FIELDER
    BAY
    MOLINA
    FRANCOUER
    CASTILLO
    PITCHER
    I HEAR U REGARDING WRIGHT’S RBI DIFFICULTIEDS IN PAST; BUT HE’S ALWAYS BEEN THE PROTECTION FOR DELGADO & HASN’T HAD MOCH BEHIND HIM SINCE ALOU WAS MIA A LOT. HIS SKILL SET FOR AVG. & POTENTIAL POWER FITS TYPICAL #3 & HE SHOULD SEE MORE DECENT PITCHES WITH PRINCE AT HIS BACK. BELTRAN, #2, SHOULD CAPITALIZE ON PLETHORA OF FASTBALLS REYES WILL INDUCE, THAT CASTILLO COULD HIT; BUT NOT WITH POP. CASTILLO #8 CAN USE HIS OB CAPABILITIES TO BE SAC OVER BY P. THE ABOVE LINEUP EXCL CASTILLO & MOLINA IS MOSTLY >30. I CHOSE BAY OVER HOLLIDAY BASED ON $ WITH BOSOX ACQUIRING HERMEDA FROM FL, THEY MAY NOT BE OVERLY AGGRESSIVE ON RETRAINING BAY. I FIGURE NYM CAN LIVE WITH 10M/Y FOR LF & BAY IS MORE LIKELY THAN BORAS CLIENT HOLLIDAY WHO NYY ARE EYEING. I FIGURE PELFREY,MAINE & MURPHY MAY ALL BE IN A FIELDER PKG. FIELDER IS UNDER CONTRACT FOR 10.5M IN ’10, ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE FOR ’11 REPED BY BORAS. FIGURE A TEXIERRA SIZED CONTRACT REQUIEMENT AT MINIMUM FOR L/T CONTRACT ON PRINCE. PERHAPS DOABLE IF ECONOMY COMES AROUND BY ’11 & WE’VE A COUPLE OF POSTSEASON REVENUE INCREASES BY THEN.
    I BELIEVE THE DEPTH OF MY PROPOSED LINEUP IS SOUND WITH HR POTENTIAL 1-7 WITH GOOD L-R BALANCE. I ALSO GUESS THE TOTAL COST BET 50-60M ADDITIONAL MEANING A NET INC IN PAYROLL OF 20-30M; UNDER THE 178M LUXURY CAP FOR 2011. IF PAGAN GETS LF AS U DESIRE, $$$ SAVED & I’D ALTER THE ABOVE LINEUP WITH MOLINA 6 & PAGAN 7 IN FRONT OF CASTILLO. THOUGH BAY FITS BETTER LINEUP WISE WITH HIS 25 OR SO HR. WHAT SAY YOU?
    • GaryS November 7, 2009 at 10:55 am

      What say I? Too many new players to be taken seriously. Perhaps necessary. We agree on Pagan and we agree that Fielder is a more important acquisition than Bay, albeit slightly. Murphy reminds me of someone you will remember 62, a player named Mike Vail who played under Joe Torre. He was a slow footed, average fielding singles, doubles hitter who could not hit with men on base and was too slow to hit low in the lineup. Batted over .300 though in a short career. Murph is better, faster and with more potential but if his only position is 1B, he’s a luxury we can’t afford. You make good points about Reyes leading off and then I would definitely bat Castillo second. He doesn’t not strike out, moves players along and is the team’s best bunter, all wasted skill set at #8. I see Omar as going into 2010 with Thole and Santos, both reasonably good hitters and more than adequate for #8. Fielder strikes out more than Wright but those 2 back to back scare me. We won’t sign Lackey, and get Marquis in a trade so we need to focus on Lackey.
      I’d rather keep Maine than Pelfrey but no one will want Perez unless we eat his contract, something Omar is too stupid to do. I’m glad you agree on Nieve so my starting 5 are Santana, Lackey, Maine, Perez and possibly Neise. I think we lose Parnell in a trade unfortunately.

      If we sign Bay he hits 6th behind Wright. If not, Francoeur bats 6th, Pagan 7th.

      Reyes
      Castillo
      Beltran
      Fielder
      Wright
      Bay
      Francoeur
      Catcher

      We sign Cora, Hernandez and Tatis then likely Sullivan over Reed.
      We may end up having to trade Pagan, mistake in my opinion.
      • METS62FAN November 9, 2009 at 1:25 pm

        GARY, FYI MARQUIS IS A F/A I BELIEVE CAN BE HAD FOR 4/60M IF WE CAN INK LACKEY FOR 4/70M.
        I CERTAINLY DO RECALL VAIL & IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY DIDN’T HE ESTABLISH A RECORD FOR CONSEC GAMES WITH A HR FOR A ROOK? OR SOME SUCH NONSENSE? THE POSTER BOY FOR DISAPPOINTMENT/LETDOWN.

        CASTILLO BATTING #2 IS STANDARD IN “THE BOOK”; BUT DOES THE BOOK ACCOUNT FOR HAVING THE GAME’S PREMIER BASESTEALER BATTING #1. WHY EWASTE AN OUT ADVANCING REYES WHEN HE CAN DO IT ON HIS OWN. ONE OF THE PERKS REYES’ BEING ON BASE BRINGS IS DISRUPTION TO PITCHER’S GAMEPLAN THROWING MORE FB EVEN IF BREAKER IS HIS BEST OFFERRING. I DON’T BELIEVE CASTILLO IS THE BEST OPTION FOR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF FB, BELTRAN IS. CARLOS IS DEFINITLY BETTER SUUITED TO HANDLING HARD ONES OVER WAVEY ONES. IF REYES BATTING LEADOFF DOESN’Y AFFORD U THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET YR OFFENSE STARTED SOONER THEN WHY NOT? I’D BAT DELTRAN #2 & WRIGHT 3, I BELIEVE WRIGHT HAS RARELY HAD AS MUCH PROTECTION BEHIND HIM AS FIELDER PROVIDES & WILL REDUCE HIS Ks BY GETTING BETTER PITCHES TO HIT. IT COULD TRULY BE AWESOME, IF NOT UNIQUE. CASTILLO’S OBP WORKS AT #8 SO P CAN MOVE HIM OVER WITH AN OUT RATHER THAN WASTING ONE MOVING REYES UNNECESSARILY. I DON’T THINK CARDS WASTED TOO MANY OUTS ADVANCING BROCK OR OAKLAND & RICKEY. WHY US? THERE IS SMALL BALL & TINY BALL. REYES ISN’T JUST A GOOD BASESTEALER HE’S A PREMIERE ONE, TOP 1 THROUGH 3 IN MLB. STL DIDN’T BUNT COLEMAN OVER MUCH EITHER. OUTS ARE PRECOUS THER’S ONLY 27. IN ’86 BACKMAN RARELY BUNTED EITHER MOOK OR DIRT. HIT & RUN TYPICALLY. MORE FIRST & THIRDS LED TO BIG INNINGS. NO ONE PITCHED AROUND MEX EVEN WITH A VACANT BASE & HAVING SEEN ALL 3 IN THEIR PRIMES, REYES IS SUPERIOR TO BOTH WILSON & DYKSTRA RE. BASESTEALING. THINK ABOUT IT. I ADMIT IT’S UNCONVENTIONAL.
        WITH HOLLIDAY A NYY INTERST AS WELL AS A BORAS CLIENT, I’D LIKE TO SEE US KICK SERIOUS TIRES ON BAY ESP SINCE BOSTON ACQUIRED HERMEDA MAKING RETENTION LESS DO OR DIE FOR THEM. BSIDES I THINK BAY MAT BE BETTER DEFENSIVLY BY SLIGHT MARGIN. HOLLIDAY STRUGGLED MORE IN COL. LF SIMILAR TO CITI SIZED.
• GaryS November 7, 2009 at 1:50 pm

  Danny, you are missing the dynamics and the fact that the Brewers need to get value for fielder. murphy is an upgrade defensively and fits nicely into a team where others his for power. In the brewers ballpark, Murch his 20 HR, close to 300 and 80 plus rbi’s. He the main guy, not the throw in. they may ask for pagan as well but most likely will want Pelfrey who would be their #3 starter. He’s better than Suppan for a lower price. They are losing looper anyway accordng to 62.
• Danny Krieger November 7, 2009 at 1:57 pm

  GaryS
  I totally disagree. Pelfrey is not a #3, period. Maybe he will be but the Brewers aren’t trading Fielder for someone who might be a #3 someday. The pitchers Mets62 and you talk about are not established starting pitchers. They are totally questionable starting pitchers.

  It has nothing to do if he is better or not better than Suppan. It has only to do with getting equal value for Fielder. And Murphy is not the main guy in this trade at all – you guys think he’s no good.
  • GaryS November 7, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    When a team is dumping salary for a player they can’t afford, equal value is not the driver of the trade. They need pitching and a good hitting 1bman to replace fielder. 62 has this one right.
    • Danny Krieger November 7, 2009 at 10:36 pm

      Gary S.
      The Brewers don’t need to dump Fielder’s salary of 10.5 million. The payroll was 80million this year with money coming off for next year. They are not dumping a 46 hr per year guy who makes 10.5 million
      • METS62FAN November 8, 2009 at 10:52 am

        GARY, THAT 10.5 ONLY LASTS THROUGH 2010 AFTER WHICH THEY FACE BORAS WITH HIS REAMS OF PRETTY CHARTS IN AN ARBITRATION HEARING THAT ODDS-ON WILL AT LEAST DOUBLE THAT 10M ala TEX CONTRACT LEVEL. THEY CAN’T AFFORD THAT AS IT PUTS THEM OVER 100M IN A LESS THAN PRIME MKT. THE MILWALKEE ROTATION IN ’09 AMASSED A SPers ERA >5.2, THE WORST IN MLB. THEIR WINNINGEST PITCHER, LOOPER, IS EXPECTED TO DECLINE THEIR 6M TEAM OPTION & TAKE HIS TEAM LEADING 14-7 RECORD ON THE MKT. THEY ALREADY DEALT HARDY FOR NO PITCHING & THEIR GM ANNOUNCED A DESIRE TO ADD 2 ‘EXPERIENCED’ SP. ATL HAS SPing TO DEAL, ALL OF WHICH EARNING AT LEAST 10M PER EACH. OUR TRADABLE PITCHERS ARE ALL EXPERIENCED WITH VERY MANAGABLE SALARIES EXCL PEREZ. NOT GOOD ENOUGH? FOR NY QUITE POSSIBLY; BUT COMPARED TO MILWALKEE’S ROTATION, BOTH MAINE & PELFREY, 2 MOST EXPERIENCEDS/TRADEABLE ARE COMING OFF DOWN SEASONS WHEN EVEN THEIR LOUSY NUMBERS ARE ARGUABLY #2 IN A MILWALKEE ROTATION. BEAUTY IS ALWAYS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. REMEMBER EVEN THOUGH FIELDER’S CONTRACT ENDS THIS ZSEASON, HE IS NOT A ONE YEAR SOLUTION SINCE HIS LACK OF SVC TIME PRECLUDES HIM FROM FREE AGENCY; BUT RATHER EARNS HIM ARBITRATION HEARING THAT LIKELY AWARDS HIM 1Y @ 20M(TEX & HOWARD $)2Y @ 30M IS NOT OUTRAGEOUS FOR NYM CONSIDERATION. OTHERWISE WHO BATS CLEANUP?
      • METS62FAN November 9, 2009 at 11:08 am

        DANNY, IT’S NOT THE 10.5M FOR ’10; BUT THE 30M FOR ’10 & ’11. IT’S A NO BRAINER THAT FIELDER IS ASSURED TO GET 20M+ IN ARBITRATION REPRESENTED BY BORAS, UNLESS HE’S DEAD BY END OF SEASON. REP’ BY BORAS THAT’S NOT A SLAM DUNK EVEN IF HE’S DOA. RE. YOUR ARGUMENT INSISTING MAINE & PELFREY ARE BELOW AVERAGE SP. I MUST ASK, WHERE? ON A CONTENDER, POSSIBLY; BUT IN THIS LAST WS I BELIEVE BOTH MANAGERS MAY HAVE BEEN TEMTED TO SELL THEIR LEFT NUT FOR EITHER AS A #4 OPTION. PERHAPS EVEN BOTH RIGHT & LEFT. BLANTON? MITRE? BETTER?
        CONSIDER THIS OVER PAST 2 HEALTHY SEASONS MAINE’S RECORD OF 25-18 ISN’T HORRIBLE, NEITHER IS FACT HE ACTUALLY WAS THE WP IN 4% OF HIS ’09 GS! WHAT AVERAGES ARE U LOOKING AT? LAST TIME MILWALKEE WAS CONSIDERED AN ACTUAL CONTENDER BOTH MOLITOR & YOUNT WERE SUITING UP! YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE YOUR AVERAGES FROM THE ROTATIONS TOILING IN MILW, BALT, TX, KC, COL, STL, CLE AS MOST GERMANE AS THOSE ARE HE TEAMS FLANKING BREWS’ 80M PAYROLL. DUAL ACES ARE ONLY CONSIDERED MINIMUM REQUIREMENT IN NY & BOS THE BASEBALL MECCAS. CONSIDER THERE WERE ONLY 3 ABOVE AVG SP APPEARING IN THIS PAST WS. CC,AJ,LEE AM I WRONG? COME BACK, I AWAIT YOUR RESPONSE WITH BAITED BREATH,LMAO!
        • Danny Krieger November 9, 2009 at 11:15 am

          Why wouldn’t the Brewers keep him for this year and trade him for 2011? or at midseason this year. And in arbitration Boras doesn’t have as much negotiating power. It could be settled by the independent arbitrator for $17 or $18 million easily.

          Tell me what exactly are you willing to give up for Fielder and I can comment better. Is it Maine and Pelfrey, or one of them? And who else.
      • METS62FAN November 9, 2009 at 11:35 am

        DANNY, YOUR POST CITING YOUR PERCEPTION THAT BORAS NOT AS BIG AN ENTITY DURING ARBITRATION HAS YET TO HIT. MY RESPONSE IS 1 NAME, 2 WORDS. R Y A N H O W A R D! I REST MY CASE, EVEN # 17-18M BREWS DROWN & WHERE IS THE CLUB ASSUMING THAT IY DEAL FACING ANOTHER ARBI HEARING? ESP ONE OFFERRING MORE THAN MAINE,PELFREY,MURPHY? THIS YR DOUG MELVIN STATED HIS TARGET IS ADDING 2 ‘ESTABLISHED’ SP & ONE OF HIS MOST VALUABLE TRADING CHIPS IN THAT REGARD WAS JJ HARDY. WELL, HE DEALT HARDY & REC’D ZERO PITCHING. BTW, THE ONLY TEAMS I’VE READ ABOUT WITH EXP SP TO DEAL ARE ATL & TOR. EACH OF ATL SP MAKE MORE THAN FIELDER THIS YR. HALLADAY ISN’T LIKELY TO WAIVE FOR MILWALKEE’S SAUSAGE. DANNY, SOMETIMES BAD BREATH IS ADVANTAGEOUS OVER NO BREATH!
        • Danny Krieger November 9, 2009 at 11:38 am

          Before I comment again, I just want to make sure I understand.
          You are offering Pelfrey, Maine and Murphy for Fielder?

          If so, I want to think about it.
    • METS62FAN November 8, 2009 at 11:10 am

      THANKS, GARY. I WAS BEGINNING TO THINK I WAS ARGUING WITH MY COUSIN, AN ARROGANT, NYM CAN’T SUCCEED, NYY FAN.

      IF I CONSIDER ALL THESE SO-CALLED OFFENSIVE SOLUTIONS BEING BANDIED AROUND LIKE HOLLIDAY, BAY, GLAUS, MOLINA, BARAJAS, DiROSA, GONZALES, HUDSON EVEN ADDED TO EXISTING STALWARTS WRIGHT, BELTRAN, FRANCOUER.

      I DON’T SEE ONE CLEANUP OPTION. AM I THE ONLY ONE REMEMBERING THE FRUSTRATION OF ’05 WHEN OMAR BUILT A LINEUP COUNTING ON ADDING DELGADO, THAT WHEN HE FAILED, THE LINEUP FELL APART FOR LACK OF THAT BIG BOPPING #4? 2 ME THIS HAS TO BE PRIORITY #1. THERE’S A NUMBER OF SPers FROM LACKEY,MARQUIS,WOLF, PINIERO, HALLADAY THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE ADDED TO ARGUABLE DEGREES; BUT I MAY BE MYOPIC IN SAYING I ONLY SEE ONE TRUE VIABLE CLEANUP BOPPER AS POSSIBLY AVAILABLE. THE FACT HE PLAYS A POSITION WE HAVE VACANT IS A HUGE “STARS ALLIGNED” PLUS WE CAN’T LET PASS. I’M TURNING 60 IN ABOUT A MONTH AND I’VER NEVER THOUGHT A MET SEASON HINGED ON ADDING ONE PLAYER AS MUCH AS THIS. IF WE PASS UP AN OPPORTUNITY TO RENAME THE PEPSI PORCH, PRINE’S BALCONEY WE’RE DAMNED FOOLS!
  • METS62FAN November 8, 2009 at 11:22 am

    CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
    DANNY, ESCAPE THE NY BUBBLE. IS IT OUTRAGEOUS TO SAY REUNITED WITH PETERSON BOTH PELFREY & MAINE ARE POTENTIAL 15G WINNERS? I THINK NOT! CONSIDERING MILWALKEES WINNINGEST SP WAS 14-7, AN ARGUMENT COULD BE MADE THEY COULD BE ACQUIRING THEIR TOP 2 SP & SAVING 30M OVER NEXT 2 YRS. NOT A SMALL CONSIDERATION.
    WHAT DI U THINK OF BRADEN LOOPER AS A MET? I’M GUESSING NOT A BIG STALWART FAN; CONSIDER LOOPER WAS THAT 14-7 SP FOR BREWCREW IN ’09.
    TEAMS GUNNING FOR THE WS PRIORITIZE 2 EST ACES AS NECESSARY, TEAMS SETTLING FOR W/C HOPES NOT SO MUCH.
  • METS62FAN November 9, 2009 at 10:41 am

    DANIEL, DID U EVER STOP TO THINK YOUR NY ATTITUDE & EVALUATION CRITERIA IS NOT RELEVENT TO TEAMS LIKE MILWALKEE? WHY IS IT THAT 21 OF THE 30 TEAMS CHOOSE TO KEEP PAYROLLS BELOW 100M? THERE IS CERTAINLY A COST EFFETIVNESS ISSUE THAT NYers RARELY CONSIDER. FIELDER IS A 30M INVESTMENT OVER NEXT 2Y, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE BREWS WILL MAKE THAT INVESTMENT CHOICE? WHO OUT THERE HAS ANY SPing TO TRADE & WON’T BALK AT 2Y/30M FOR A 1B? I BELIEVE AN ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE THAT BOTH MAINE & PELFREY CAN BECOME 15W PITCHERS REUNITED WITH PETERSON. I’LL ADMIT IT’S CERTAINLY ARGUABLE. POTENTIAL CERTAINLY IS ALWAYS A CONSIDERATION. THESE 2 PITCHER’S POTENTIAL IS DEFINITELY LESS QUESTIONABLE THAN THAT OF AN UNVETTED PROSPECT. THERE ARE VERY,VERY FEW FRANCHISES WILLING TO MAKE THAT SIZED(30M/2Y) FINANCIAL COMMITMENT, FOR VERY GOOD REASONS. THE D-BACKS ATTEMPTED BIG SPEND POLICIES ALL THE WAY TO THE BRINK OF BANKRUPTCY. DID THE BRAVES PASS ON REUPPING ANY OF THEIR BIG 3 BECAUSE THEY COULD NO LONGER PITCH? OAKLAND? SAME QUESTION. ROI IS VERY IMPORTANT TO MID-MKT BASEBALL CLUBS. MILWALKEE GAMBLED ON SABATHIA & LOST CONSIDERABLY. MOST LIKELY THE GOOD FEELINGS OF A FAILED POSTSEASON BERTH HAVE ALREADY FADED FROM THE TURNSTILES. HOW POPULAR IS THAT “M” LOGO? APPEARED IN ANY MOVIES OR NON-SPORTS MAGAZINES? THAT’S WHAT PAYS THE FREIGHT, BRAND MARKETING! A 30M INVESTMENT IN ‘M’BRAND WILL NEVER PAY LIKE IT WOULD IN AN EAST COAST BASEBALL MECCA LIKE NYC.
• Anthony November 7, 2009 at 11:23 pm

  I saw this on Mets.com, it’s a pretty good read, so take a look, I look forward to everybody thoughts:

  Mets’ offseason wheels in motion
  Club sees a fit with players already filing for free agency

  By Marty Noble / MLB.com

  11/05/09 8:53 PM EST

  NEW YORK — Not to rush the season or anything, but the Mets may begin their Holliday shopping forthwith. Among the 79 big league players who filed for free agency Thursday was one Matt Holliday, a player with skills that are consistent with the Mets’ expressed needs. Holliday hits baseballs over and beyond fences, something that was beyond the Mets’ power most of last season.

  He is one of nine players who availed themselves to free agency Thursday who interest the Mets as they try to make to make roster repairs following an unrewarding and unsightly season. Also filing were fellow slugger Jason Bay; starting pitchers John Lackey, Jason Marquis and Randy Wolf; outfielder Mike Cameron; second baseman Orlando Hudson; and first baseman Troy Glaus, each of whom could fill a need for the Mets.

  And among the eight players who were on the Mets’ roster and eligible for free agency, two filed — Carlos Delgado and Brian Schneider. The club has a degree of interest in affording Delgado a chance, but such a move would be inconsistent with the high regard for Daniel Murphy that exists in some offices — including the manager’s — at Citi Field.

  The 15-day filing period ends Nov 19. Until then, the Mets may negotiate with and sign Delgado, Schneider and any of the other six eligible players on their 40-man roster who file. Alex Cora, Elmer Dessens, Ramon Martinez, Gary Sheffield and Fernando Tatis also are eligible, and J.J. Putz is likely to become eligible. The Mets are not likely to exercise their option on the contract of the veteran relief pitcher.

  The Mets may notify any free agent to express interest during the filing period, but only incumbent clubs may negotiate and sign players until after the filing period.

  The Mets have not said publicly which players most interest them, but people within the organization who are familiar with the club’s thinking have mentioned Holliday, Bay, Lackey, Marquis, Wolf, Cameron, Hudson, Glaus and two catchers who are eligible to file — Bengie Molina and Rod Barajas. Chances are the club will speak with the agents representing Delgado, Cora, Tatis and also Putz, once it declines to exercise its option on his contract.

  The club has identified and prioritized its needs as follows — power hitters, a No. 2 starting pitcher, a veteran catcher and, as always, setup relief. Holliday and Bay appear to be the most attractive sluggers, and Lackey and Marquis the most attractive starting pitchers. Chances are those four will be among the most actively pursued of the 180-some odd players likely to file.

  How actively general manager Omar Minaya and his staff will pursue any free agent is an unknown. Club COO Jeff Wilpon said the day after the Mets’ 70-92 season ended that the club would provide “what Omar needs” to restore the Mets as contenders. But, of course, the Mets are not alone in the market.

  Holliday’s value has increased dramatically in the aftermath of his summer in St. Louis. He provided legitimate protection for Albert Pujols after he was acquired by the Cardinals. And, as the most marketable and available starter, Lackey is likely to attract many suitors too.

  The Mets’ poor 2009 season may make them less attractive to free agents than they were a year ago when they signed free agent Frankie Rodriguez. Moreover, hitters may be persuaded to look elsewhere because of the pitcher-friendly image of Citi Field. And, until the Mets acquire a catcher, pitchers may be reluctant to sign.

  The Mets’ needs are so many that they cannot establish one course of action. Signing one or two of the primary free agents would make a difference. But if that can’t be accomplished, what then? Some possibilities the Mets have discussed follow:

  • Pursue Cameron to play left field, thereby improving the outfield defense and adding some power. That would reduce Angel Pagan to a reserve role, which is what the club prefers. Chances are the Mets would want Cameron for one season, affording more time for Fernando Martinez to develop.

  • Include Luis Castillo in a trade package and hope to fill a need with what they receive in return and then sign Hudson to play second base. The Mets believe that Castillo’s renaissance season and, in particular, his on-base average, .387, have made him attractive to other clubs. Hudson, who lost his second-base job with the Dodgers, is not likely to be pursued by too many clubs.

  • Sign Glaus, a right-handed power hitter, to a conditional contract and have him available to share first base with Murphy and provide power off the bench. That would all but eliminate Delgado from the Mets’ thoughts. But for now, the club is considering offering Delgado a conditional contract.

  • Sign Wolf and package a starter on the Mets’ roster — not Johan Santana, of course — to acquire a No. 2 starter or a slugging outfielder.

  Marty Noble is a reporter for MLB.com
  • Daniel November 8, 2009 at 2:07 am

    I read it yesterday and for the most part I liked what I read.
  • METS62FAN November 8, 2009 at 10:30 am

    CAPSLOCK=DISABILITY ACCOMODATION
    ON THE SURFACE, I LIKE WHAT I READ; BUT ALL THE HITTERS MENTIONED, HOLLIDAY,BAY,HUDSON,GLAUS ARE ALL SUPPORT TYPES. IF I COMBINE ALL OF THEM WITH WHO WE ALREADY HAVE, I DON’T FIND ONE BIG BOPPING CLEANUP THREAT TO PROVIDE THE NECESSARY THUNDER TO ACCOMPANY OUR TOP OF THE ORDER LIGHTNING. DELGADO IS THE ONLY ONE REMOTELY CAPABLE OF FILLING THAT HOLE. IF NOT DELGADO, THE OBVIOUS CHOUICE WOULD BE TO USE THAT SP MOVEMENT TO ACQUIRE FIELDER. THOUGH FIELDER’S 1O.5M DEAL EXPIRES AFTER ’10 HE’S NOT ELIGIBLE FOR F/A; BUT FOR ARBITRATION WHICH I’D GUARANTEE AN AWARD OF 20M IS NOT UNREALISTIC AS BORAS IS HIS REP & 30M OVER 2Y IS NOT UNREALISTIC FOR THE PRESENCE HE’D PROVIDE IN THAT #4 SPOT FROM 1B.
    WHILE ALL THESE HOLES BEING FILLED ARE OF VARYING IMPORTANCE, I WOULD PRIORITIZE ACQUIRING A 40HR CLEANUP PRESENCE AS TOP PRIORITY. BAY,HOLIDAY,BELTRAN,WRIGHT,GLAUS ARE ALL SUPPORTIVE POWER HITTERS U EMINATE OUT FROM THAT CLEANUP HORSE IN A PROPER COMPETITIVE LINEUP.
    DOUG MELVIN, MILW GM, IDENTIFIED 2 SP AS HIS OFFSEASON PRIORITY & SINCE HE’S ALREADY DEALT HARDY FO NO PITCHING, HIS DEALABLE OFFENSE IS DWINDLING. A FULLCOURT PRESS IS REQUIRED FOR THE “MISSING LINK” FROM OUR LINEUP. DELGADO’S RESURGANCE IS A HUGE GAMBLE A TRUE CONTENDER DOESN’T MAKE & POSSIBLE WASTE OF #2 PAYROLL MONEY; FIELDER BATTING FOURTH IS THE ONLY SURE BET TO SOLIDIFYING THAT LINEUP. ADD ALL THE PITCHING U WANT, NO ONE WINS 0-0 CONTESTS. JUST ASK SEAVER.
    • GaryS November 8, 2009 at 11:11 am

      I violently agree with you 62. I live in Florida but am leaving today for a short NYC business trip. Fielder is my first choice for cleanup and Delgado my second choice. Speaking of Seaver, MLB was rerunning the 60 WS and I was a high school student and managed to see games 5 and 5, but never on TV until now. Cleon Jones led the team with .340, 12hr and 75 RBIs. That 69 team had two pitcher as good as or better than Santana, three if you count Nolan Ryan who of course pitched in game 4. Gentry and Mcandrew better than Pelfrey and Maine. The difference was work ethic and fundamentals and mainly Gil Hodges. We need to consider that we can’t win with Jerry M. I watched the game in awe Seaver had pitched over 300 innings and in his last 8 regular season games, all were complete and his ERA was 1.00. Then on 4 days rest he pitches 10 innings in game 4, no pitch count being mentioned. Watch the game and you’ll see that in the 7th inning, he gets this second wind and pitches harder and more accurately. The point is that the 69 METS with little hitting produced enough runs for a world championship,
      Back to the present. If we keep Delgado and he’s healthy, and sign Lackey, and sign Holliday, we have a team. Murphy is fine as a late inning defensive replacement, spot starter (30 games) and pinch hitter. Then we must sign Lackey whom I had no interest in last year, and maybe, here it comes Pedro.
      • METS62FAN November 9, 2009 at 9:36 am

        GARY, I WAS GIFTED THE ’69 SERIES ON VHS 12 YRS AGO & I AGREE. REMEMBER CONTEXTUALLY, THE ’69 SQUAD WAS THE FIRST 5 MAN ROTATION INSTEAD OF 4, MEANING MOST LIKELY SEAVER,KOOSMAN,McANDREW,GENTRY ALL DID THEIR MILB CAREERS AS PARTS OF 4 MAN SQUADS DICTATING MANY MORE IP IN MINORS UNLIKE TODAY WHERE ANTIQUE CRYSTAL ISN’T CONSIDERED AS FRAGILE AS SPing ARMS.
        MY BIGGEST CONCERN WITH DELGADO WOULD BE HIS BATSPEED MORE THAN HIS HIP. HE’S A GOOD HEALTH RECORD IF U DISCOUNT INJ CAUSED BY HBP. HIS LOWER BDY(TRUNK) HAS BEEN A CONSTANT ASSET, BROKEN HANDS, WRIST IDSSUES HIS ACHILLES(PUN INTENDED). HIS MAINTAING THAT BAT SPEED IS TANTAMOUNT TO HIS SUCCESSFUL RETURN, IF THERE’S ANY DOUBT, FIELDER IS THE #1 MUST HAVE FOR THIS TEAM, EVEN BEFORE A #2SP. FIELDER WOYULD BE A 30M 2Y INVESTMENT MILWALKEE CAN LITTLE AFFORD. HOW MANY TEAMS, OUT THERE CAN MEET THE CRIOTERIA OF 1) DEALING EXPERIENCED,AFFORDABLE SPing & 2) AFFORD TO TAKE ON 2Y/30M FOR 1B? FOR THAT SIZED SPENDING U NEED ONLY LOOK AT THE TOP 10 PAYROLL CLUBS: NYY,NYM,CHC,DET,PHL,BOS,LAA,LAD
        I BELIEVE WE’RE THE ONLY YEA TO BOTH QUESTIONS! WE JUST LOCKED PELFREY IN FOR 500K BARELY OVER MINIMUM, VERY AFFORDABLE & DEALABLE PELFREY HAS 1.12 YRS SVC TIME, MAINE 3.088 NEEDING 5 FOR F/ACY. MAINE LIKELY TENDERED 3M MADE 2.6 IN ’09. BOTH ARGUABLY POTENTIAL 15W CAPABLE ONCE REUNITED WITH PETERSON. 2 ME THIS IS A MUST FOR BOTH CLUBS & IF MURPH INCLUDED A GOOD DEAL FOR BREWS, BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.
• GaryS November 8, 2009 at 12:20 pm

  62, I imagine you live in NYC or Queens.. We’re about the same age so it would nice to meet some day.
  If we trade for fielder at the Winter Meetings or even sign Delgado, other free agents will take us more seriously. Lackey has pitched in the playoffs three season in a row and probably won’t want to taker a step back.
  • METS62FAN November 9, 2009 at 9:13 am

    GARY, I TOO, RESPECT YOUR THOUGHTH PROCESS & WOULD ENJOY DIRECT COMMUNICATION, UNFORTUNATLY YOUR GUESS IN INCORRECT, I WAS ONCE A BKLYN NATIVE; NOW LIVING IN MATTHEWS, NC. MY DIRECT EMAIL IS PTHYLAND@AOL.COM, IN LIEU OF A VERY LONG LUNCH COMMUTE BY EITHER OF US. AFTER I VACATED BKLYN IN ’76 FOR MIDDLESEX CNTY, NJ I WAS RELOCATED TO SOUTH JERSEY, CHERRY HILL, PHL SUBURB, AFTER THAT, COLUMBUS, GA.(3 YRS) THEN BACK TO NJ (2 YRS.) ONTO LOS ANGELES (10 YRS) NOW NC FOR 11 YRS & RUNNING. I’LL TURN 60 IN A MONTH, 12/10 & AFTER STARTING OUT A BKLYN FAN, 1st EVER LIVE GAME @ 4 OR 5 IN EBBETS FLD WITH MY NANA, SPUR OF THE MOMENT. MY MOST LASTING ‘FEELING’ FROM THAT GAME WAS THE AWE OF SO MUCH GREEN INSTEAD OF TV GRAY. I CAN STILL FEEL THAT FELING WHENEVER I REMEMBER THE DAY. LOOK FORWARD TO DIRECT CORRESPONDENCE, WARNING I’M AN OPTIMIST THAT RECOGNIZES THE RESTRAINTS OF RUNNING NYM BY OWNERSHIP RESTRICTIONS. I DON’T LIKE THEM; BUT I ACCEPT THEM.
    I FEEL BUOYED BY RECENT ANNOUNCEMENTS OUT OF BOTH NY & MILWALKEE. BREWS HIRING PETERSON & DEALING HARDY TO MINN FOR GOMEZ AS HARDY WAS ONE OF THE MAJOR TRADE CHIPS DOUG MELVIN POINTED TO FOR USE IN OBTAING HIS DESIRED PITCHING, HE DEALT HARDY FOR AN OUTFIELDER & NO PITCHING, POSSIBLY SINCE HE’S IDENTIFIED, COME TO AN UNDERSTANDING ON GETTING HIS DESIRED 2 EXPERIENCED SP, WHO ELSE HAS EXCESS SPing OF ANY CAPABILITY & IS EXPERIENCED.
    OMAR HAS CERTAINLY PROVEN ADEPT AT STEALTHY DEALINGS, MILLEDGE,CAMERON,CHURCH, NADY ALL DEALT WITH NO LEAKAGE TO MEDIA NOT EVEN ON THE MOST EXTREME BLOG SITES.
• Garys November 9, 2009 at 10:16 am

  62, I also have a VHS with the 69 worked series but MLB broadcast the entire games, and I watched this in conjunction with this years WS. The 69 Mets had a combination of gut and determination to go with thier great pitching. Baltimore had great pitching also.
  Anyway, your Prince scenario makes some sense as long as he can hit 35 HRs in Citifield. I’m not as concerned about Delgado’s bat speed as you are. Last time he played regularly he seems fine.

  The key signing is Lackey. That makes everything else possible. IMHO
  • Ace November 9, 2009 at 11:13 am

    I saw that on MLB. Was nice to Nolan Ryan when he was young again. He was a real fireballer!
• Garys November 9, 2009 at 12:06 pm

  This trade that 62 is proposing is so good for the Brewers it must scare the shit out of Omar. Murphy can hit 40 doubles, drive in 80 runs,and play above average defense at 1B. Maine and Pelfrey can win 15 each. If the trade is so good, why make it at all? Because the Mets team offensive dynamic is dependent on a reliable and feared power hitter batting 4th. It makes every player on either side of a good #4 potentially better.

  Want Wright to drive in 100 runs batting 3rd, you need Fielder or the like. You want Beltran to drive in 100 runs from #5, you need Fielder or the like, and then a Francoeur, Bay or Holliday behind Beltran.