Comments on: Mets Aren’t The Only Team That Peaked In 2006

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:59:01 +0000

HDARVICK, U SUPPLIED MY ANSWER WHEN U WROTE THIS:
“Clearly, the Mets must acquire at least one more starter capable of holding opponents off the scoreboard. Another season with multiple starts by the likes of Tim Redding, Pat Misch and Nelson Figueroa is not the answer. They proved themselves to be capable in spot starts, but if they have to be in the rotation together for another month at a time like they were in September, the Mets can’t expect to win too many ballgames.”
LEFT TO MY OWN DEVICES, I’D HAVE TO ADMIT, THAT WHILE I LIKE FIGGY, HE’S TOO WEAK AS A TRUE ROTATIONAL SP. HE IS IN MY HUMBLE OPINION A TRUE AAAA PITCHER. A CONTINUATION OF THE NYM FORMULA OF 4SP + 1 THROWIN TO GET BY. HE’S CERTAINLY OLIVER GRADE,LIVAN GRADE,VARGAS,REDDING GRADE. I’D PREFER 5 SP ALL BRINGING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE NONE BEING JUST GET-BY QUALITY. THE POTENTIAL ATLANTA ROTATION OF JURRJENS,VASQUEZ,KAWAKAMI,HUDSON,HANSON CERTAINLY WON’T ALLOW US THE LUXURY OF A “GET BY” SP AND WE CERTAINLY WON’T BE ABLE TO OUTSLUG THE PHILLIES. WHEN I READ THE FORMULA IS “PITCHING,SPEED & DEFENSE”, I DON’T SEE GETTING BY AS AN ALTERNATIVE

By: hdarvick

hdarvick — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:08:25 +0000

Figgy waas DFA’s twice not 3x. The second time he went directly to the Bisons. 8 starts (2-6) is not “a couple of meaningless starts.” The Mets scored 11 runs in his 6 losses, less than 2 runs per game. He had a 3.22 ERA in those 8 starts. If the Mets had scored 4 runs per Figgy start, he’d be 8-0 in those “meaningless starts.” He becomes a free agent after the World Series ends.

In 2004, Carlos Beltran batted .267 with 38 home runs (1 HR every 4 games) and 104 RBIs. But it was the 12 games he played in the postseason with Houston that got him his 2005+ Mets contract: .435 batting average with 8 home runs, 14 RBIs. So a “couple” of good games ending a season can help you get a good contract the next season.

By: hdarvick

hdarvick — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:54:57 +0000

You say (your typos uncorrected): “FIGGY IS A NICE STORY; BUT SHOULD NOT BE A PLANNED ANSWER TO ANY NYM QUESTION IN ’10. THIS ISN’T MOTHER GOOSE, IT’S CUTTHROAT BASEBALL, THE MAJOR KLEAGUES. THER’S NO CRYING & NO SENTIMENTALITY. FIHGGY SHOULD BE THE ‘ACE’ OF THE BISONS. NO MORE.”

Give me one reason – just one – why Figgy shouldn’t be given a chance at #5 in the 2010 starting rotation.

In addition to what I wrote above about his stats in the rotation, if he hadn’t been called up from Buffalo for four days in May and not used (missing a start), he would have qualifed for the 2007 International League lowest ERA (2.25); Carlos Torres won with a 2.39 ERA in 128 innings. Justin Lehr (117 innings) led with a 1.08 WHIP; Nelson’s was 1.03. Figgy needed a minimum of 115 innings pitched – he pitched 112.

His age (35) is not a valid reason for not giving him a one year contract. Darren Oliver, Pedrio Martinez, Mariano Rivera (all still pitching in October) are older – I’m not saying Figgy is better, but age is not a factor, it’s performance.

So, your reason for leaving Figgy in Buffalo and not signing him to a 2010 Mets contract is … ?

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:41:49 +0000

THE GOOD NEWS SHOULD BE NONE OF YOUR COMPLAINTS WERE EVERE INTENDED TO BE SP. THE BETTER NEWS IS WHEN 90% OF THE ROTATION WENT MIA, THERE WASN’T A LIMA OR 40 SOMETHING SP ON THE BUMP TO BEGIN GAMES.
A ROTATION OF:
SANTANA
PELFREY
PEREZ
MAINE
REDDING
HERNANDEZ
NIESE
NIEVE
FIGUEROA
MISCH
PARNELL
WAS NEVER ON ANY DRAWING BOARD. I’M SURE I MISSED SOMEONE; BUT ISN’T IT AMAZING HOW WE WERE TOLD THERE WAS “NO DEPTH” JUST AS WE WERE TOLD WE DIDN’T HAVE CHIPS TO TRADE FOR JOHAN. BTW THERE WAS NO SACRIFICING HOLT OR MEJIA’S DEVELOPMENT JUST TO HAVE A NEEDED SP. WE’VE CERTAINLY DONE WORSE IN THE PAST WITH ROTATIONS ACTUALLY HAVING TRACHSEL & V.ZAMBRANO AMONGST THE FIRST/PRIME 5. NO THERE WASN’T A HANSON, HUGHES, CHAMBERLAIN, KENNEDY TYPE IN THE MIX; BUT NIESE & NIEVE BOTH LOOKED PRETTY WHILE THEY LASTED, BOTH ARMS ARE STILL SOUND. U DON’T GET TOP PROSPECTS IN SECOND+ DRAFT ROUNDS ESP FOR ‘SLOT’ MONEY.

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:21:53 +0000

ED, YOU CAN’T POSSIBLY USE ’09 FOR ANY COMPARISON OTHER THAN TO MARVEL AT THE SPing DEPTH WE WERE TOLD DIDN’T EXIST. OF THE 162G PLAYED ONLY 102(63%) WERE STARTED BY PITCHER’S WHO WERE IN THE ROTATION INITIALLY LEAVING STing: SANTANA(25),PELFREY(31),PEREZ(14),MAINE(15),REDDING(17)
CONSIDERING WE NEVER BOWED TO PITCHING “THE PEN”ala SPRING GAME OF 3IP/PITCHER. THE MERE FACT THAT 10 Ws WERE CONTRIBUTED BY NIEVE(3),FIGGY(3),NIESE(1), MISCH(3) SPEAKS VOLUMES AGAINST OMAR’S CRITICS DISCREDITING “THE DEPTH” BY MY COUNT THERE WERE 12 SP, 5 SS, 2-2B,3-CF,3-1B,4-C MOSTLY ALL FROM WITHIN(ONLY A-HERN,W.VALDEZ ACQUIRED)
CERTAINLY MANY WERE YONG RETREADS, NO 40 YR OLDS; BUT THAT’S WHAT HAS TO BE DONE WHEN U TAKE OVER A LOUSY FARM SYSTEM & GO YRS WITHOUT FIRSTROUND PICKS DUE TO INKING ML NEEDS.
FIGGY IS A NICE STORY; BUT SHOULD NOT BE A PLANNED ANSWER TO ANY NYM QUESTION IN ’10. THIS ISN’T MOTHER GOOSE, IT’S CUTTHROAT BASEBALL, THE MAJOR KLEAGUES. THER’S NO CRYING & NO SENTIMENTALITY. FIHGGY SHOULD BE THE ‘ACE’ OF THE BISONS. NO MORE.

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:59:33 +0000

ED, I FULLY CONCUR THAT ’10 SHOULD BE OLLIE’S WATERLOO SEASON. UNFORTUNATLY, IF HE ISN’T GOOD, HE’S VIRTUALLY UNMOVABLE SINCE OMAR WILL BE PREVENTED BY OWNERSHIP FROM EATING HIS CONTRACT OR SUBSTANTIALLY UNDERWRITING IT IN ANY DEAL. THEY’VE REFUSED TO DO SO, HISTORICALLY. SEE, CEDENO,BONILLA,MATSUI,THE ’04 DUQUETTE HOUSECLEANING.

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:50:36 +0000

JDON, VERY SIMPLE, BORAS KNEW WHAT WAS IN OMAR’S POCKET DUE TO LOWE OFFER; BORAS’ GREATEST ASSET AS A NEGOTIATOR IS HE DOESN’T REALLY CARE ABOUT HIS CLIENTS’ CAREERS, HE’D AS SOON FORCE PEREZ TO “SIT ONE OUT” RATHER THAN LEAVE A DIME ON THE TABLE. OMAR HAD TO HAVE A SP & PEREZ WAS ARGUABLY THE BEST LEFT ASVAILABLE. IT ISN’T LIKE OMAR OFFERRED 3/36 FROM THE ONSET 3/36 WAS HIS PARAMETER FOR HIS #1 CHOICE, MEANING HE WAS INITIALLY PREPARED TO LET OLLIE WALK. THE TALENT DROPOFF AFTER OLLIE WAS IMMENSE TO CRIPPLED SHEETS, GARLAND,WOLF(TOO MANY TEAMS RECENTLY IS INDICATIVE OF ISSUES WHEN LHSP IS AT SUCH A PREMIUM)

By: jdon

jdon — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:35:24 +0000

teams have never clamored for Nelson when we DFAs him 3x a year. A couple off meaningless starts probably will not change their mind. Good bye. And as for Ollie, 62, if nobody was bidding for him, why did we sign him for so moolah?

By: Ed Leyro

Ed Leyro — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:34:07 +0000

I wouldn’t be surprised if Ollie’s third year is better then Lowe’s third year. That doesn’t mean it’s going to be as good as his 15-win 2007 season.

Plus, for $12 million a year, I had a right to expect a little more than what Ollie gave us. I hope he can pull off a Luis Castillo, where many fans wanted him out of New York, then he came back and had a fine season.

As a Mets fan, I want all our players to do well, including Oliver Perez. However, if he doesn’t give us some improvement in 2010 (doesn’t even have to be his 15-win, 3.56 ERA season of 2007, but it has to be much closer to his 2007 performance than his 2009 performance, that’s for sure!), then I’ll be pushing hard for his exodus before the 2011 season.

By: Ed Leyro

Ed Leyro — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:27:02 +0000

I would love to have Nelson Figueroa on the team. I was quite impressed with his final month of the season. The point I was trying to make is that if the Mets have to depend on the combination of Redding, Misch and Figueroa for an extended period of time, the team will probably not do very well.

Say if the Mets had four quality starters and Figueroa, I could live with him getting 30 or so starts. I’m sure at worst, he’d win 10-12 games. But a combination of fifth starters becoming #3, #4 and #5 guys (like the Mets had to do with Figgy, Misch and Redding) won’t cut it for too long. Maybe for a few weeks or so, but eventually at least one of them (and probably more) would come back to Earth and the Mets would be looking for another pitcher.

I do appreciate your research. The former math major in me lit up when I read your stats!

By: hdarvick

hdarvick — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:04:45 +0000

You say: “Clearly, the Mets must acquire at least one more starter capable of holding opponents off the scoreboard. Another season with multiple starts by the likes of Tim Redding, Pat Misch and Nelson Figueroa is not the answer. They proved themselves to be capable in spot starts, but if they have to be in the rotation together for another month at a time like they were in September, the Mets can’t expect to win too many ballgames.”

Here are Nelson Figueroa’s stats:

After becoming part of the rotation replacing Santana on August 25th, Nelson Figueroa allowed 18 earned runs in 50.1 innings (3.22 ERA), going 2-6. That averages 6+ innings per start.

In his 6 losses, the Mets scored a total of 11 runs. The Mets can’t expect to win too many ballgames averaging less than 2 runs per Figgy start. He could have easily been 8-0.

If you eliminate his first Jurgens game, in 7 of his 8 starts in the rotation, he allowed 12 earned runs in 45.1 innings (2.38 ERA). That’s a 2.38 ERA. He also has a rubber arm – he can easily throw 110 pitches every fifth start and he proved it with 126 pitches in one of those starts.

Nelson becomes a free agent after the last game of the 2009 World Series. That means he can sign with any ML team that offers him a contract. He has stated publicly that he wants to continue pitching for the Mets. He’s also said he’s the Mets Geico – low-cost insurance. Don’t you think there’s a Major League team out there who would sign Nelson as their #5, #4, or even #3 starter? as for his age (35), it means abosutely nothing unless you want to sign a pitcher to a 3+ year contract. There are 3 pitchers in the current LCS who are older – Darren Oliver, Pedro, and Mariano. I’m not saying Nelson is better than any of them – all I’m saying is that you can pitch well after you’re 35.

And please dont lump Nelson Figueroa with Redding and Misch.

By: I’m Reading: about Tube Socks, Garko & Frenchy

I’m Reading: about Tube Socks, Garko & Frenchy — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:39:16 +0000

[...] a post to Mets Merized Online, Ed Leyro looks at the similarities between the Mets and Padres, both of whom lost to the Cardinals [...]

By: METS62FAN

METS62FAN — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:27:56 +0000

I FIND IT FUNNY THAT SO MANY PSEUDO-GMs FIND SSO MUCH FAULT WITH THE SIGNING OF OLLIE. I WOULD LIKELY BE AMONST THEM HAD OLLIE BEEN THEIR PRIMARY SPing TARGET;BUT HE WASN’T LOWE WAS. I SEE OLLIE AS THE PERFECT BORAS FINESSE GAME. CONSIDER THIS: BORAS HAD 2 CLIENTS. ONE HAD THE POTENTIAL TO INTEREST MANY TEAMS; ONE HAD JUST ONE SUITOR. HE FIRST GETS OMAR TO OPEN HIS KIMONA WITH A LOWE OFFER OF 3/36. BORAS, DECLINES DEMANDING 4YRS ONLY. HE SIMULTANEOUSLY READS THAT ATLANTA JUST LOST SP SMOLTZ TO BOSTON LEAVING A BIG HOLE IN ATLANTA’S ROTATION, CALLS THEM ASKING IF THEY’D GO 4Y ON LOWE. ONLY THEN DOES HE MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TO FLY TO ATL W/LOWE WHOM HE LEFT OUT OF NY TRIP, SEALS A DEAL FOR 4/60; CALLS OMAR & SAYS SOMETHING LIKE”SHALL WE GET TOGETHER TO TALK PEREZ? HE ALREADY KNOWS HIS ONLY COMPETITION OUT THERE IS A CRIPPLED SHEETS AND QUESTIONMARKS GARLAND & WOLF AS WELL AS HOW MUCH OMAR HAS TO OFFER, 3/36. A DEFINITE POSITION OF STRENGTH FOR THE UBER AGENT.
OMAR’S NON-PEREZ OPTIONS: BETTER ATLANTA’s 4/60 offer ON 36 YR OLD LOWE OR PASS ON OLLIE & SIGN WOLF OR GARLAND.
CONSIDERING OLLIE’S MECHANICS SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY RESOLVED BY WARTHEN, OLLIE’S FUTURE CERTAINLY SEEMED BRIGHTER THAN OTHER AVAILABLE OPTIONS. HAD THE WBC NOT OCCURRED & OLLIE STAYED WITH MECHANICS FROM END OF ’08, IT’S DEBATABLE HOW THIS DEAL WOUKLD BE VIEWED IN 3 YRS, WHEN LOWE IS EARNING 15M @ AGE 39. NO WONDER RUMORS ARE ATL IS ACTIVELY SHOPPONG HIM & ONCE MORE OMAR SHOULD JUST SAY “NO!”.