You’ve heard it again and again and again… Great pitching wins championships.
While the Mets spend the next few weeks pondering over what went wrong, I urge them not to waste too much time looking backward. Jeff Wilpon, Fred Wilpon and Omar Minaya have each already stated that they are committed to putting a championship team on the field in 2010.
Additionally, they held firm to the theory that they built Citi Field to house a team that revolves around pitching, defense and speed. If that were really true, than why was Johan Santana surrounded by number five pitcher fodder from opening day on?
Did they believe that a big park would transform a mediocre pitcher into a top of the rotation stud?
That is some predictably bad logic…
If you want a top of the rotation starter, you either draft them when their young, sign them as a free agent, or trade for them. At no time does a pitcher with one or none plus pitches suddenly grow into a Tim Lincecum overnight because you made the walls 18 feet high. It don’t work that way, and it’s shocking to me that Omar Minaya may have believed that. His over-confidence in the vastness of Citi Field led him to believe that:
1. Citi Field would make Mike Pelfrey a bona fide number two pitcher for a championship team. WRONG.
2. Citi Field would hide a host of flaws from Oliver Perez and shave a run off his ERA. WRONG.
3. Citi Field would allow John Maine to ease back from shoulder surgery without a blip. WRONG.
4. Citi Field would make a 13-15 game winner out of Livan Hernandez. WRONG.
It’s time for some new math…
If money is not an object as was adamantly expressed on Monday by the Wilpons, then open up your coffers and do whatever it takes to get Roy Halladay on this team. Whatever it takes.
I’ve read several other blogs on getting Halladay, and it seems that the prevailing theory is that the Mets do not have the pieces and players to get it done. That’s ridiculous. The number one reason the Blue Jays are looking to unload Halladay is primarily salary relief, and the fact he will not resign with the Blue Jays after this season.
The truth is that the Blue Jays will get less than what they could have gotten for him had they traded him at the deadline this past season.
Also, didn’t we hear that same nonsense about not having enough pieces to get Johan Santana two years ago?
Let each teams GM’s decide what’s enough and what isn’t. Everyone else must stop acting like they have some cosmic insights into every GM’s thought process. Ugh…
I’m not about to start throwing out some silly hypothetical trades at you, mostly because we have no idea what the Blue Jays would want. Only the Blue Jays would know that despite what others may report. All that I’m advocating is that Omar Minaya needs to pick up the phone and begin to lay the groundwork for a trade that will land the All Star right-hander in Flushing.
Halladay has compiled a phenomenal 148-76 won-loss record in his career. That is a whopping .661 winning percentage. Now that is some math I could live with.
He has pitched 25 complete game in the last three seasons, including seven shutouts.
He has already won one Cy Young award in his career, and has finished in the top five in the last four seasons.
Halladay was the best pitcher in baseball over his final six starts, posting three shutouts, four complete games and a 1.47 ERA. That includes a 3-hit complete game shutout against the Red Sox in his final start of the season.
Several rumors surfaced back in July, that the Blue Jays had strong interest in Mets prospects Fernando Martinez, Jenrry Mejia and Bobby Parnell. There was even another rumor that Omar Minaya actually shot down an offer from the Blue Jays, but neither side confirmed or denied it. But as the saying goes, where there’s smoke there’s fire.
Adding Halladay to the rotation, and then going out and signing someone like Joel Pineiro would transform the Mets from cellar dwellers to the top of the heap in the National League.
A starting rotation of Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Joel Pineiro, John Maine and Mike Pelfrey may actually net the Mets 100 wins next season, even without the addition of huge slugger like Prince Fielder at first base.
But talking about doing it and then actually doing it are two very different things. One way that the Mets can firmly convince fans of their commitment, and also put to rest any lingering doubt about their assumed financial woes, would be to pull off this ultimate stunner of a trade and add Halladay to the rotation.
If the Mets focused on building the best pitching rotation in the National League with the additions of Halladay and either a Joel Pineiro or Randy Wolf, would it really matter anymore if Angel Pagan gets the gig in leftfield?
*Mets Merized Online Needs Your Help*
wrong.
Like I said when Cytana was attained (for a dollar and a dream), the team still needs bridges … not “a bridge”; BRIDGES … to get the ball into the hands of their Closer (at the time it was Wagner, now K-Rod).
I told anyone who would listen that as amazing as he is … and he IS … Johan already had 2K innings on his arm; he was now going to have to get into the Batter’s Box; potentially run bases; … and have to go at least 7-8 innings in order for the team to see the best dividends of having one of our generation’s best pitchers.
None of that changes by adding Doc.
… and I don’t think the Jays new GM will be bamboozled into taking anything close to what the Twins took for Johan.
… then there’s the other issues:
1B
2B
SS
C
LF
Bench
Manager
Coaches
… it’s like deja vu all over again
You’re entire argument is so flawed and full of glaring holes. Are you serious?? Bridges??? How about the fact that Mets starters averaged 5.2 innings pitched per start??? What we need is a pitcher who can not overwork our bullpen and pitch into the 8th inning most of the time. Halladay does that.
Felicano, Green and Parnell were all in the top 15 in appearances!!! Feliciano actually set some sort of a record for appearances and he led the league two years in a row!!!
Bridges???
Go do your homework before you post such nonsense again.
Other issues…
SS, 2B, bench, manager and coaches are issues??
Concerns maybe, but issues??
How are you going to fix the manager issue when manuel is the manager? Are you going to trade him for Prince Fielder?
Smarten up dude, and focus on what can be changed not on what wonty be changed.
You must be the only living person that calls adding Halladay a bad move.
Actually, you’re right; I think I am.
I won’t get into a flame war over this. Johan wasn’t the missing link to the brass ring and neither will Doc.
imo
and that count for nothing with anyone else but me
Adding Johan didnt win the brass ring because we have a GM who fixes flaws on a one per off season system. He added Johan in 08, but left the bullpen that had sucked in 07 intact.
In 09 he revamped the bullpen, but ignored a glaring hole in RF and LF and C.
Now his ass is on the line and he admits he needs a power bat, another top of the rotation starter and a setup man. His words not mine. Personally I cant stand Omar, but even his dumb ass realizes that his one stud an off season plan was an epic FAIL!
You’re on crack.
Fire The GM makes a great point
Age 33, with the contract he will require, he will be old and overpaid before you know it. Don’t wipe out the farm for him. Make some smart free agent acquisitions and play smart, fundamentally sound baseball (something Manuel might be incapable of implementing). The coaching staff is as much a problem as the roster… Warthen and his base-on-balls brigade, Manuel and his loser attitude. But hell at least Alicea got the axe, right?
Save the farm? What farm? We saw what the farm had and we did not develop one above average player in four years and that includes our first rounder Pelfrey.
The Mets havent developed an 18 game winner since Dwight gooden two decades agaon, and Minaya has been the worst minor leage drafter in team history with not one hit in over 200 selections.
To suggest that keeping Jon Niese, Bobby Parnell and any other Mets prospect all with sub 4.00 ERAs in Class-AA over Doc Halladay because of age, is absolutely insane.
All of a sudden 32 is old?? For a pitcher with the most fluid delivery in baseball? Lincecum and Verlander will both have tommy john surgeries before Halladay loses his effectiveness. Nobody puts less of a strain on his arm than Halladay. Look at his biometrics! He’ll pitch till he’s 40 like other similar pitchers. You dont think Halladay has 5 top years in him?? In the NL??? Really??? Wow, just wow!
He’ll be 33 when he starts the contract.
Obviously I hope I’m wrong, they sign him and Roy’s biometrics lead us to the promised land. Would there be room to make other moves after signing him though? And it does nothing to fix the lackadaisical play under Manuel, or the rest of the staff regressing under Warthen.
I know the farm isn’t great, but with Halladay you’d still have to give up the best of a bad lot. They could have gone after Sabathia without having to give up anything.
Trading for Halladay just seems like a reactionary, Yankee-lite move… except they’ve got deeper pockets and a better farm system. I’m in more of a WWTD (What Would The Twins Do?) mindset, because why the hell is Carlos Gomez scoring the winning run in game 163 while we’re all picking through the emotional big-market wreckage of the 2009 Mets?
I will have to agree 100%!!!! he has the most fluid delivery in baseball, and that is why he goes out there and throws complete game after complete game. he is no joke and is an intelligent pitcher who will go out there and almost always gives u a chance to win. after johan, we have no one of that caliber.
If we do give him a new contract, you can have most of the money going into the later part of the contract, as are many long term contracts. save some money for this year and use it for something useful. Let everyone say what they have to but this guy handles the red sox like no one else. and that my friends, is no easy task.
now take away the dh and put the the pitcher in the lineup…. he will do a great job going from AL to NL. this team can pull this off
If you think Santana is good.Wait till you see Doc every 5th day.Johan is not even close to Halladay.santana pitched in the AL Central against K.C.Halladay had to pitch against the Yanks -Red sox-tampa all great hitting teams.And he has a winning record on a losing team.If they can get him do it.Halladay and Santana is as good as Koufax Drysdale.
Pitching certainly is key to a winning team … but this team lacks in so many other areas, that fixing the pitching problems alone is not the answer. We have no power, no first baseman, and a sub-par coaching staff. Think of all the brilliant performances we got from Santana this year, but didn’t win because he got no run support. The same thing will happen to Halladay. And while I would welcome Halladay with opened arms, if he’s all we add, I’m still not happy.
Very much agree with you Denise. In addition, I would think Halladay (or any other pitching ace) would be hesitant to come to the Mets due to lack of offensive power. As you said, without run support, they can pitch their hearts out as Santana did and still get a big “L”. As important as finding a #2 pitcher is to our rotation, I think some big power at the plate is equally important if not more so.
I believe we didnt win because we didnt back Johan Santana up with a legit number two pitcher.
I think all of you have forgotten that the Mets were second in the league in batting trailing only the Dodgers.
Also, Santana got more run support than Halladay, Zach Grienke and Chris Carpenter.
Johan Santana was always one notch worse than the other teams ace in most of his starts. While that pitcher found a way to win, Santana didn’t. Halladay is a bigger warrior than Santana and in fact would be the ace bumpibng Santana to number two. An ace should be able to deliver complete games when everything is on the line, Santana is not capable and further more he lost velocity 4 straight seasons and we dont even know how much worse he will be after surgery.
John Maine had the same remiving bone fragments surgery and wasn’t ready in the spring and missed almost an entire season. And his was the shoulder, NOT the elbow which is more serious.
Right now, Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball bar none.
The Yankees knew they had to back up Sabathia and sign A.J. Burnett too. Thats why they are the first class operation that they are. Do you think Brian Cashman would have ever mistaken Mike Pelfrey as a number two pitcher?
Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain who are a thousand times better than Pelfrey were never considered for more than the number five spot in the Yankee rotation and right now neither of them are even in the rotation.
This team needs Halladay more than you think we do. Especially when Johan shows up with a sore elbow thanks to scar tissue which will cause him to lose more velocity like others before him.
I guess than you can proclaim Jon Niese your ace when that happens.
Pelfrey is a first round bust. Look at all the othe great players from that draft. I cant believe he was the ninth overall pick. FAIL!
Denise, I agree. We need to bring in some bats and THEN get Halladay. The Mets need to fix 1B with either Gonzalez or Fielder and LF with either Holliday or Bay. First show we’re serious about offense, then it’s time to get Halladay. Otherwise, we’re just fooling ourselves.
Maybe ….
Few certainties exist, but I like your confidence; sustains me over the long winter.
Bring him in ! This guy shows no signs in slowing up and he beasts vs. the AL east, imagine what he can do in Citi vs. the NL ?!? As far as that trade proposal goes, it was probaly b.s. that was thrown out there by the Blue Jays so the Phils can hike up the price. Remember, this is a new Blue Jays GM that will trade Roy and he would want to make a big splash so you would probaly have to include a guy like Pelfrey in that package. I doubt a new GM would want unproven chips. This isn’t a Twin thing where the player being traded will ask for a 100 million dollar contract. You can probaly get other teams involved, with Johan the Mets were the only desperate team willing to give him an extension and unload their farm for him. Yanks and Red Sox were never real players. Whatever it takes to get this guy I would do, with the factors mentioned before this guy could probaly be the best pitcher on our staff if he did become a Met. You read that right, the best on our staff. I can see Roy being great for another 3 years and very good for another 2 years after that. I don’t care what his age is. I’ve seen teams win titles with older pitchers before, I don’t see why it couldn’t happen again. Halladay isn’t a hard thrower, it isn’t like he would lose speed off his fastball. I would definately make a deal for Halladay. I’m not going to wait to see if Ollie can improve or Pelfrey can improve or Maine can stay healthy. Give me something that is reliable.
Despite the fact that Pelf had a 5 ERA, he really wasn’t that bad. He had a 4.50 or so FIP, which is about the same as 2008. The difference was that Alex Cora started a bunch of games at short, instead of Reyes, and Castillo started at second. Reyes is very good defensively, cora not so much.
Yes a 25 year old removed from a season with a 3 something ERA and everyone wants to run him out of town. Yet keep john i can never stay healthy maine in the staff.